JohnBhoy, one of the regular commenters here, posted the comment below in response to a comment from a Rangers supporter. I thought it was worth posting on its own account.
Thanks John!
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RANGERS: THE WAY FORWARD
I don’t know if the game needs specifically a strong Rangers, or Celtic for that matter. There is an argument that the strangle-hold of the old firm has hindered progress in the Scottish game. It needs competition.
My favourite football era was not 9 in a row for Celtic – I just took their dominance for granted – but when Aberdeen and Dundee United were at their best. In my view it is no coincidence that at that time we also had a very good national team. EU entitlement to cross-border movement notwithstanding, a focus on home-grown players via a three-foreign payers rule would also help.
I, and others, have had enormous fun at your club’s expense but, joking aside, what do you think Rangers should do? I was reading the other day about Tiger Woods. It seemed to me that he followed a text-book approach to rehabilitation: COMPLETE contrition right away, EVERYTHING out in the open right away, all the while quietly getting on doing what he does best – playing golf.
If Lance Armstrong, for example, had adopted that model then he would have been able to start afresh; but he allowed the drip-drip of accusations and counter-claims to kill off any chance of a comeback. Rangers’ “re-habilitation” under Charles Green was closer to the Armstrong model. As a Celtic man, of course I revel in the troubles of your club; if the roles were reversed then Rangers fans, quite rightly, would be gleefully putting the boot in.
That said, here’s what I would do if I was an omnipotent blue nose:
– Remove Charles Green.
– Hire an independent legal and financial expert to get to the bottom of this nonsense once and for all, openly working with the authorities.
– Get some outside body in to advise on steadying the ship.
– Bring back John Greig (he left with dignity).
– Drop legal action and pay off Craig with a % of Charles Green’s shares. Why should the fans or the club pay for their shenanigans? They are both in this up to their necks, so they can share each other’s loot and be gone.
– Give the fans some real power.
– Stop fighting with everyone.
– Create a joint Rangers/Celtic colt team.
– Create a joint Rangers/Celtic fans forum (their remit would be to discuss issues over e.g. songs, banners, joint initiatives for combating sectarianism, over-enthusiastic policing, etc.). A Rangers legend and a Celtic great could be members of the forum to keep the weans in check.
It is the obscene levels of animosity between the old firm that causes so much division in Glasgow. If Rangers survive, then that needs to end. Rivalry is healthy, but not open warfare. Surely in this day and age, surely for the sake of the next generation, surely for the sake of a better Scotland, we can replace this bile with intense, but sane and civilised, rivalry. We owe ourselves that much.
Posted by JohnBhoy
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
“create a joint Celtic/Rangers colt team”? Why on earth would Celtic be interested in that idea. We are moving our young players through the NextGen series quite well thank you, and are being invited to Youth tournaments all over the world. Non-starter imo.
Cathal, completely understand where you are coming from, but that helps Celtic, not Glasgow.
Tiger was upfront about his rule infraction (naively) and pays the penalty.
Fat chance of any of these suspects doing the same. Cynical? Moi?
Tiger was upfront all right…when he was caught!
Woods had wrongly signed his card and handed it in. A spectator reported the incident and Woods was then pulled up.
A two shot penalty for gaining a sporting advantage, which Woods admitted.
Contrast that with a fourteen year old being penalised one stroke for taking twenty seconds too long to hit his drive!
Woods should have been tossed out of the tournament.
What’s a sensible post like this doing in here. Haha. Only kidding JB. Admirable thoughts but I think you’d have as much chance as a snowball in hell. To be quite honest, I don’t see the the rangers being a threat to anybody in the near future therefore I couldn’t see Celtic adopting this never mind the fans.
Superb JohnBhoy, but there may be one or two obstacles – although they may prove not totally insurmountable – eg:
1-For the Celtic support, the plan implies a certain amount of ‘bygones being bygones’ as far as the status of the other half of the former Old Firm goes – will they(we) accept them as the same club, albeit a new version of it? (This may be a compromise necessary to get the fans working together, in as much as the plan implies they would probably have to)
2-Given the nature of the two main protagonists, Green & Whyte, and not least their track record, it would be very unsurprising if some key element related to the execution of such a plan being under the sole ownership of one of them – or both (the worst case scenario). I mean things like (but certainly not exclusively) marketing/branding rights or even ownership of the name/histo… ach, bugger, just run thew bums outta town – great idea JohnBhoy!
Kenny, nobody is ever going to win that argument about old/new Rangers. Me and my lot shout “You’re deid!! Here’s the proof!” and the other half shout back “Naw we’re no!! And here’s the proof!”.
If a second admin event occurs to RFC then we will find out in new (15 point reduction only – 1st offense) or old ( 34+ pts – 2nd offense)….
After what Rangers have done I have no desire whatsoever what the way forward for them is.
That’s their business.
Their very presence in Scottish football is a continuing disgrace.
But maybe not for much longer.
Not long now…
share a ground would stop a lot of vandalism… 🙂
JimBhoy, it might result in a lot of grafitti on the walls, for next weeks visitors. 🙂
Barca, we would need to use a whiteboard lol.
Well said, JohnBhoy. Set up such a commission under the chair of someone like Craig Brown and Pat Nevin
I’m sorry, are you kidding,ones an auld fart and the other denounces the team he used to support to further his carreer,Nevin is a true bawusbagus burst oan the fence, and he has an anoying voice and a wind vane for a ‘beano’….not for me!
am I the olnly one who thinks Pat Nevin looks like Barts Simpsons mate Millhouse?
Would Grieg be allowed onto the board? He was a director during an insolvency event. Could be mistaken but I am sure I read on here that bars him for a period.
I also think the SFA would find him undesirable as he was clearly aware of serious issues at the club and failed in his duties as a Director by doing nothing other than resigning.
@Richboy
I would bring Greig back in some capacity. To retain both his honour and his loyalty to Rangers he had to both resign and not stab them in the back. In any event, I doubt very much if Greig was privy to Whyte’s financial wizardry. Walter knew about SDM but he has returned. Football needs more football people, not suits.
The SFA has no claim to find anyone undesirable, given their abysmal track record. If some of those in the SFA had shown the same sense of sacrifice as Greig then many from both sides of the old firm would be celebrating.
Most of the old Rangers troubles was because the old board including John Grieg sat back !said nothing! were loving the glory days because the owner was spending money like it wasn,t his! It Wasn,t! Everything was hunky dory! Celtic were being threatened closure, from the same bank that was keeping their rivals at the top,Murray tried all in his power to GRIND Celtic into the ground! but thankfully the arrival of Fergus McCann lifted Celtic LEGALLY! onto the same platform! Murray found it hard to accept,tried to FIX it ,and the rest is HISTORY! Greig and McLelland got out when they knew what was about to be exposed! and I don,t think it had anything to do with dignity! Much as I normally like your posts John Bhoy, I wonder at your comment, Greig left with dignity! To me, he did a runner! even the old Rangers fans and the media, had,nt a clue where he was! In fact I don,t think Greig knew either!
uncle charlie will parade Greig and McLelland within the season end now it`s been mentioned? Though the million pound cross-bar challenge will be won on the same day? Icing on the punched cake.
Greig as a non-executive director was still bound by corporate law and he did not inform the relevant authorities when he thought there was something not right in the board room. He resigned but failed to do his job.
Yes,the SFA would be that upset the would get Campbell Ogilvie to block Grieg
Do you think it´s worth giving a second chance & needed development time to make dreams come true for Young English players while adding The Spanish Way to English Grit as what @nextstarsnet is doing? Follow @nextstarsnet to help make happen.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/3756-rangers-board-statement
Seems there’s a fashion for commissioning independent examinations, Harper Mcleod or Biggart Bailey for the job.
A straightforward yes or no to “did you sign those forms” and show us the authorization for selling the assets to sevco scotland ltd would save a lot of time and money.
I think Newtz is correct in asking aim to look at that last big trade.
A simple, question or two
Why did you ask Whyte for £135,000.to be paid into Ahmed’s mums account.
why did Whyte have to pay £25,000 into your bank account to cover “legal fees” to set up Sevco 5088, a company you say Whyte played no part in.
A company you claim you set up to get Whyte to sell you His RFC 1872 shares for a £1 plus a £1
Why are you on tape saying to Whyte, “you are sevco”
martin c
April 13, 2013 at 4:45 pm
A straightforward yes or no to “did you sign those forms” and show us the authorization for selling the assets to sevco scotland ltd would save a lot of time and money.
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You’re right, but it would not serve the purpose of setting up the ‘commission’, which is to string things out over some months and hope by the time they report the whole thing will be forgotten about.
In the meantime they can say they can’t comment on the matter because the ‘commission’ are dealing with it!
Some excellent suggestions JohnBho, and if current reports are to believed, Sevco do intend to hold an independent stewards inquiry into the resurrection.
I like the idea of a colt team formed from two teams, but I wouldn’t limit that to Celtic and Sevco.
I see your reasoning behind that particular merger, but I would avoid it.
It is a difficult task being a manager, with player selection probably the biggest bone of contention amongst fans. I don’t think Glasgow is ready yet for a colt merger team, that would be largely made up of Celtic players at the moment. This will always be connected to the managers schooling, and some young boys would get a tough time due to their senior team. Any other pairing would be excellent and I would suggest an SPL pairing, with an SFL team. Closing the skills gap.
Until Chicco is found guilty of something, I am afraid hands are tied. If, and its a big if, he has done no wrong, then he will have been the guy who kept their collective together. His only, and I would say proven “crime” to date, has been rabble rousing and talking shite!
Again if, Chicco turns out to be “The Sevco bunnet”, so to speak, I cannot see that he should be forced out, and should be accepted. I think it will be the courts who decide the outcome of the Chicco and Craigy double act.
The joint forum……. Christ you see it on here sometimes! It can denegrate at times and best of luck to the mods on that wee chestnut.lol.
A thoroughly sensible post JohnBhoy which provoked me into an attempt at a thoroughly sensible reply.
For the avoidance of doubt, it broke my heart saying that about Chicco. I still think he has been less than…..honourable
Barca, I suspect this will be a quick investigation, resulting in unfortunate and regrettable communication issues and, for the good of the club, a number of amicable resignations. The problem, though, is events. Doubt very much that Craigie will obediently observe a period of silence. He throws another spanner in the works and bob’s your uncle.
The idea behind the colt team was to break the mould for the youngsters – difficult but not impossible. Money spinner too! Play at Ibrox one week, then Parkhead for the next home game.
JB, the investigation is going to come down to 4/5 bits of paper.
Does Sevco own assets,….title deeds!
Did Sevco bump 5088 to get the titlee deeds…..another couple of sheets
Did Craigy bump SDM, Don’t think so!
Paul could sort it out in half an hour, in a broom cupboard with the docs and wee Craigy & Chicco a big stick and willing arm at his disposal.(For the record Paul, my biceps, 19″: but would be happy to yield to a more “willing ar
Willing arm for a front row spectators seat)
The pairing of colts JB is a cracking idea, and I would expand it to include the smaller, less player rich teams. The odd wee gem might result from that and a better standard all round
BTW, sorry about the split in this reply. On my daughter’s Carson.
Barca, and unearthing gems from other teams might help the youth national team, and so on.
JB, I’ve been thinking further about the Sevco internal inquiry. I agree they need one!
I do not think that it should exclude other inquiries though. The Sevco one will no doubt remain under wraps.
What I think this development has done, has exposed the SFA. If Sevco themselves feel the need…..Shouldn’t others? In particular I point the finger at the member participants of the 5-way pact!……Or will they just rely on Sevco telling them to move along? It should be a public inquiry. Scottish fans can take the pain…..Can they? !
@paul
Have you been approached to participate in the “independent examination and report in view of recent allegations” – http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/3756-rangers-board-statement
Brush off those brogues and polish those buttons – cometh the hour, cometh the man.
You are right sorry. I´m just very interested in getting @nextstarsnet across that I may doing more harm than good. I apologise.
Rangers statement – in part
” The Board wishes to re-iterate Rangers is a Club which is opposed to all forms of prejudice and has a long-established policy of working extensively in the community through a variety of programmes and initiatives to tackle issues such as racism and sectarianism.”
My statement – total
Utter bollocks
They have the brass neck to issue that.
Shameless bastards!
JohnBhoy, I like a lot of that, your posts are normaly on the ball.
Here’s the but, I do not see Sevco dropping the we are the peepil we deserve better, Im not obsessed with their demise I’m aggog at those bending to help them out, it’s akin to giving an alchy a bottle of whisky to feel better.
Keep up the posts
Celtic football club stands alone!!! let the others catch up or die. Celtic first & Celtic last & Celtic overall!!!
Anyone or anything that does anything to help Sevco is beneath contempt. I want them to burn in hell with Thatcher…….Celtic stand alone, let the rest of them fight it out! A corrupt, Country, corrupt football authorities & a Corrupt, rancid new club. They deserve each other! HAIL HAIL! THERE IS NO RANGERS!!!!
I prefer the “stand together” model. The authorities are corrupt. That is an absolutely undeniable truth. Even a few Chairmen Sorry Saints and Killie fans). The facts stand however that Scottish football was probably strongest, collectively, when oldco were at their weakest. I have newfound faith in the fans in Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh (although many of the Hibes don’t have faith in themselves 🙂 , Motherwell, Kircaldy and Cumbernauld, to name a few.
Let newco find their true level without assistance from the corrupted and let the rest flourish. Celtic will eventually be caught by the others as our PLC board are notorious tightwads. Maybe then we’ll reinvent our game and get back to the latter stages of Europes top competitions more regularly.
Get guys like Turnbull Hutton as administrators, get Jim McClean aff his fat arse and doing what he is good at before he’s lost to us. Give him a reason to live for a few more years. Speak to Stuart Baxter and find out what worked, what didn’t and why? Ask Paul Lambert why he went to Germany as above average and came back a total legend. There is plenty of guys who can help and will contribute for free if it helps our game. We will be stronger together if all partners are equal and no favour is shown.
Don’t bring Leggo into this – he’s been dry for months now!
Nice one Ed!
Rules are rules but not when they apply to Tiger or Rangers.
@JohnBhoy
Sadly I don’t think that Scottish Football let alone Rangers are ready for most of the interesting points and suggestions you have made.
But something that is required at Rangers is most definitely a culture change and I don’t think that can be achieved by putting wooden-tops like Greig in any senior position even if it were allowable.
Former players are seldom of much use, from what I have seen of them, to their old clubs other than as meeters and greeters pressing the flesh.
What we desperately need is first class forward looking financial and business management skills to drive turnover, increase profitability and cut costs all in a bid to improve the product on show. That’s what attracts the fans and keeps them coming back and we have certainly seen that in action this season with the absence of Rangers from the SPL.
We have got to try and be in a position when Rangers eventually gets back to the SPL that we don’t go back to a 2-horse race dominating the league with other left trailing a long way behind. And part of that has to be a change in the voting structure to allow more democracy and if Rangers or Celtic don’t want that then they both will really need to think seriously about moving elsewhere and leaving second strings behind.
Maybe then can we really get back to building a healthy Scottish game that actually supports our national team.
Eco, when all is said and done, I like Greig. John Greig is not a sticking point for me, but someone of his stature. Like Billy McNeil, he’s quiet and dignified and commands respect from fans. Coupled with sound, honest business folk at the helm – how they would love Bunnet McCann – then you have a good mix. Their choice, but what they have now is failing miserably.
Totally agree with your comments on Rangers-Celtic stranglehold, though it will be Celtic dominating for years to come.
Celtic need to move out alone or they will simply be a cash cow to feed too many fitba teams in this country and Celtics player quality may suffer.
Sorry I dont buy into this save every scottish club revive Third Lanark and let the fans decide league restructuring, it’s bad enough when a two bit fluke from a nice part of Scotland are planning to sink Scottish Fitba plans because it MIGHT upset their season ticket fans! whit! Celtic give up £800,000 for this? kick St Sevco and any other rebel club into 1st div. and let the rest get on with it.
Thomas.
‘ Celtic need to move out alone’. I take it you mean, move to the ‘ big money ‘ EPL ? Well , good luck [ if indeed that is your intent ]. If , on the other hand, you ‘ move out alone ‘ in Scotland ,who will you play against?
Your comment smacks of ‘ we arra peepul’ imo. If you want to take over that particular mantle, then I wish you ‘ awra best ‘ in the EPL.
Regarding St Sevco, who, I surmise, are the ‘ two bit flukes’ you allude to, who are ‘gonny sink Scottish Fitba plans ‘. Firstly, Ross County, one of the other ‘ two bit flukes ‘ will most likely vote with the majority, so Scottish Fitba will be saved from the evil St Sevonicans.
Secondly, this dastardly 11 – 1 voting system was forced down the throats [ resulting imagery is censored ] of ALL the other clubs, by , gues who? – correct! Rangers and Celtic ! This of course was designed to ensure that if Rangers AND Celtic disagreed with ANYTHING then it would fail.
Fast forward: Rangers are not in the SPL. The system that CELTIC wanted, suddenly is not good enough? Well, excuse me, but boo hoo !
To be absolutely clear, I won’t tell you a lie, to be honest with you, if you refer my past posts, you will see that i’m no fan of Gilmour, and before our magnificent League Cup victory [ giruy] neither were most Saints fans.
90% of Saints fans dislike 12 -12-18. 100% of Saints fans hate any set up which promotes sevco in any form. Gilmour wants a 9 – 3 voting system. Me ? I think we should go ahead with the 12-12-18 . Not perfect, but with the other reforms [ one league structure etc ] is a step in the right direction.
90% of Saints fans dislike 12-12-18. where did you pluck that from, did you have a survey? and what does 90% of St Mirren fans look like ..2000 people?
No way do I wish we ara peepil, not a chance.
Now, …Gilmour wants a 9-3 voting system as you said then, well! he got it, and voted against it!!, why, dunno, my thoughts he’s in Sevcos back pocket and today your team are known as… like it or not St Sevco, roon ye,s.
Gilmour has brought 10 teams above and ten teams below you guys to say, save yer cash, dont print an away ticket unless it’s for County or St Sevcos Big Team, Sow & Reap.
thomas.
Just been on Saints’ websites. Seems more like 100% are against 12-12-18! And now,100% in support of Gilmour – which I can assure you was not always the case.
There are a lot of rumours re 9-3 voting. The Herald says it was limited 9-3 voting which was on offer but some items would remain 11-1. I like a good conspiracy theory. What’s yours? Why are we St Sevco ? What exactly do we gain? Don’t listen to St. Lawell so much – if he had his way last year, he like all the other chairmen, would have voted sevco into the SPL.
Also, please see my other replies on the next post.
btw.
Gilmour brought ten teams——-
I haven’t got a scooby what you’re on about! Except the end bit -sow as you reap! That’ll be boycotts then I suppose? Where have I heard that before?
Oh right- it was we arra other peepel !
lets wait and see what happens.
You dont suspect a thing?
Thomas, the moment for staright-forward contrition has gone: that’s partly why Rangers find themselves in the bottom tier of Scottish football. The best that can be hoped for is a fresh start, if Rangers survive this latest shit storm.
At the end of this, if no half of the old firm give any quarter then God help Glasgow, for positions will become even more entrenched with my (Celtic) family feeling that Rangers were treated favourably, while fans of the Rangers family will believe the direct opposite, that they were treated unfavourably. In other words, a sense of grievance is borne by both fans, resulting in an even more divided football city.
Good thoughts, thanks for sharing.
I’d be interested in your thoughts on how the other piece of your argument could best be enabled ie creating alternative football powers outwith Glasgow, getting Aberdeen/dundee/embra teams able to challenge the duopoly?
Rich, more equitable sharing of the SFA pot is one way; restructuring is another. I actually like the restructuring proposal on the table: it becomes more of a sprint at the end, rather than a marathon. That might give the old firm the heebie jeebies, and the other teams a better opportunity for taking the lead and hanging on to it. Fair play rules on finances might also help.
Rangers need clarity; on the ownership question, on the legitimacy of the liquidation asset disposal and the big tax case. For Rangers to be mired in all this for another year or two would be a disaster.
Yes Rangers had £22m in the bank in December 2012, but with operating expenditure running at £2.5m per month and the bulk of the SB money already in the Dec bank balance, Rangers could finish this season with £12m in the bank. That’s not enough to support a further two years of significant operating losses while they languish in the third and second tiers of Scottish football.
Therefore, Rangers will need new owners with a fresh injection of cash – but surely that is extremely unlikely while all the claims, counter claims and disputes surrounding the club continue. It is an impossible situation for real Rangers supporters.
Ed, it is a shit fest.
Johnbhoy,
Great post. Scottish Football has to look to the future, the starting point is a positive attitude and a willingness to look at innovative ways of moving forward collectively.
@Martin
Thanks Martin. If nothing changes then I’ll be standing (sitting, really) giving full support to the Celtic family, defending them to the hilt and using what verbal/written skills I possess to attack the other mob. I have attended so many old firm games I can still taste the hatred. I am as guilty as anyone – even in the virtual world some of my posts would shame the devil. There may be financial gain in exploiting this enmity but it reduces us as human beings. Change will not come from ill-conceived government laws or well-meaning initiatives, but through the two groups that matter – the fans.
JohnBhoy
April 13, 2013 at 9:53 pm
Change will not come from ill-conceived government laws or well-meaning initiatives, but through the two groups that matter – the fans.
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It will not come from trying to help Rangers back on their feet either.
Offering a helping hand will be seen as weakness by the Forces of Darkness, and if they ever do get back to stability, although its hard to see how, it would mean more of the same.
The same hatred, bigotry, and WATP attitude.
Rangers and their fans need to want to change.
Their actions of the last eighteen months has show they have no intention of changing.
Ever.
JohnBhoy, I think now the Rangers brand is so toxic that to get the Ibrox club back on a sound footing then new owners would seriously have to consider dropping the name Rangers and changing the colours of the strip, although they would probably choose orange, but hey ho.
As you say there has been serious wrong doing at the club and an admission that this has occurred is central to there reacceptance within the Scottish game for the majority of fans, of course this would probably come back to the new onwers ditching all ties with the old Rangers, both of them. The Rangers Supporters Trust and their other fans forums have been part of the problem, not the solution, in that they have spoon fed the fans the official line from the boardroom rather than telling the fans the truth. The fans need proper representation, not stool pigeons pretending to be on the fans side.
Final pointy that would go a long way to bridging the troubled waters would be for a prospective owner at Ibrox to say they have no truck with the sectarian singing/ WATP brigade who are more interested in singing these daft songs than learning about the history of their club. Yes the finances would take a hit, but there are plenty of decent Rangers supporters out there who don`t utter sectarian comments, more has to be done to encourage them into the club.
@castlerockbhoy
If this happened to my Celtic, the team that I love to the very core of my being, my response would be:
“I am Celtic. The fan next to me is Celtic. All the fans in this stadium are my Celtic family. I love them and they love me. While we breathe, Celtic breathes. Take the name, the hoops, the scarf from my neck, take everything. I am Celtic. The fan next to me is Celtic. All the fans in this stadium are my Celtic family, I love them and they love me. While we breathe, Celtic breathes.”
Should we expect any less from Rangers fans? Forcing Rangers into unconditional surrender is a humiliation too far. They must be allowed a path to walk, where they can come back into the fold, but with honour and pride intact. When your enemy is down, for the greater good offer him your hand.
The proposed joint fans’ forum would assist in ironing out sectarian singing and offensive banners. The Blue Order and The Green Brigade would be ably to combine grievances related to, and I’ll be diplomatic, over-enthusiastic policing, etc. A dialogue, previously missing, would be opened; and that’s a start.
Never!
JohnBhoy
April 13, 2013 at 10:03 pm
Forcing Rangers into unconditional surrender is a humiliation too far.
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You’re right John.
Surrender no!
Here’s what you do. You ask the question: ‘Has a club broken the rules?’ If they have, they pay the price. Once you start ducking and diving in favour of a single club , you end up with a rigged league.
There can be no ‘secret’ commissions. As Sleekit Ally has said:’ We need to know who these people are.’ What we must also guard against is the ‘two- broom’ approach to sweeping things under the carpet: i.e. the SFA saying they ‘ couldn’t possibly comment’ while the ‘Sevco’ inquiry is ongoing, and vice versa. If wee Craigie was a director of the company that bought Newco from D&P, then everything that has gone before is null an void and the team currently playing out of IOUbrox is in the shit. End of story—again.
Oooops the blog has moved on …. so again ….
The STV interview is quite revealing ……
CG confirms that CW was required as part of the process prior to CVA rejection as he held the shares (85%) and indemnity …… (CG)
Note ….. the indemnity …… later CG deliberately changed tack and said debentures ……. big difference …… the indemnity was always in question …. see D&P reports …..
The vehicle was Sevco 5088 ….. (CG)
FFW formed Sevco 5088 …… an off the shelf company ……. (CG)
2£5K required from CW for legal costs to FFW ……. (CG)
£25K accepted from account (Not the bounced cheque) …… seen by STV
CW and AE started the process with FFW …… (CG)
You are Sevco …… On Tape ….. (CG)
And yet on the question of CW and AE role at Sevco 5088 ….
Neither of them had a role at Sevco 5088 …… (CG)
New documentation dated 9th May 2012 …..
These forms relate to the appointment of Adrian Earley and Craig Whyte as Directors of Sevco 5088 Ltd and the signatory authorising each appointment is Mr Green.
Later …. after CVA rejection ….. 5088 passed back to CW …… (CG)
ok, let;s accept that this is bad choice of words (passed back), by CG
But where is the documentation or Company House record to show this … is it also late ???
moving on then,
We know that D&P had a binding agreement with Sevco 5088 to purchase the assets.
Yet,
Assets acquired directly by Sevco Scotland …… (CG)
and ….
The assets were never in 5088 ….(CG)
Sevco 5088 never bought anything … (CG)
Now D&P involvement here is not in question, I believe they acted appropriately. But they are crucial in this as there was a binding agreement with Sevco 5088. So how could they transfer assets to Sevco Scotland without the assets passing through 5088.
The only sensible answer lies in Sevco RES 11
Subsequently we changed the process …….. (CG)
Was it the right to assign ….. to allow authorisation of the transfer assets without need of Shareholder agreement.
Note that RES 11 was recorded on June 14th …….and assets transferred to Sevco Scotland on same day by D&P …… There had to be legal authority to do so ………
It is the transfer of assets that CW claims is illegal and reason that he has Instructed a London QC
Now here’s where I could do with Adam ……. I need the counter argument. …… someone to debunk the theory ….. I guess in Adam’s absence it’s left to cam (yikes), and possibly David.
The CVA failed …… so CW shares do not count
What about the indemnity ????
CW is still though legal owner of assets ….. this is why he had to be part of 5088 ….. as CG stated ….. this was his authority to be pole with D&P …… (CG) ……. this is why RES11 is key …….. or rather, ….. the document that CG gave to D&P showing that he had authority ……..
……….. boss (RM) knows ………
…… but it is not what he knows ….. it is who is telling him …. and why ?
…… what is their agenda ……..
newtz.
A step by step guide to ‘The Newtz Theory ‘ !! Effin awesome ! I bow low at the waist , and with a flourishing right to left hand sweep, doff my cap !
I particularly admired your ‘ now here’s where I could do with adam ‘ ie inviting criticism, because , although you think you are correct, you realise that there may be flaws in your argument and welcome the debate.
I wouldn’t bother with cam at the moment, as although he is on the ‘ cameedoon ‘ pills and seems to be in erudite mode, The Starship Enterprise is on full deflector shield mode, and there is no power left to fire any lasers.
@ Michael Taker. — Thanks for the link ! This should be read as an appendix to newtz.
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The Knife in the Dark
Yesterday was a watershed moment in the history of Rangers. It was, truly, the point of no return.
And why is that?
To go through that, we first need to understand the now established structure of progression from Oldco to Newco.
Firstly, Oldco entered administration under Duff and Phelps. Upon liquidation, the assets were transferred to a company called Sevco 5088 Ltd set up in England. While a Scottish registration number could have been gotten for Sevco 5088, instead a new company was set up – Sevco Scotland – and the assets transferred to that company.
So far, so convoluted.
The next element are laws against setting up so-called “phoenix companies”. These are when companies liquidate then immediately set up again under the same ownership. As you can imagine, this is illegal as were it not, it would incentivise owners to run up massive debts, liquidate, restart and leave creditors high and dry. Some phoenix companies can be entirely legitimate, it is whether they trade as “the same company” or not that is the sticking point.
An example of a phoenix company would be if the OldCo and NewCo were run by the same person. And in Rangers case, they were.
Craig Whyte, of course, owned the Oldco prior to liquidation but documents uncovered by STV have revealed that it is his signature that has signed Sevco 5088 into existence. The ownership of the club has passed from Craig Whyte to Craig Whyte via abandonment of debts and shafting of creditors.
This, unsurprisingly, has many ramifications.
The first is, of course, in the hands of liquidators BDO. This gives them the perfect reason to overturn the original sale of the club. As it would appear that NewCo are little more than a phoenix club, there is little doubt that Duff and Phelps as administrators failed to get the best deal for creditors and had acted improperly in their role.
The second is a follow on from that in that now, surely, NewCo are liable for OldCo’s debts including the tax bill. It should be noted that, prior to the appeal to the FTT ruling of last Autumn, even should Rangers win that appeal, the tax bill is unaffordable for NewCo as their cash reserves are not large enough any more.
The third is with the SFA. Craig Whyte was banned from Scottish football for life. It would appear that Charles Green and his cohorts have facilitated a breaking of that rule. Not only that, but in their roles as large shareholder and non-executive director respectively, it would be extremely hard to credibly argue that Ally McCoist and Walter Smith were not in on it (for a start, Non-executive directors have a legal responsibility to be aware of this sort of thing!). In terms of where the SFA goes, actively aiding the reintroduction of a banned individual into a club and then lying about it publicly for lose to a year can surely only result in the same bans being handed out sine die to those involved in the cover-up particularly as, unlike when Craig Whyte was in charge, no directors broke cover to reveal what was going on.
In terms of the club’s licence to play football, Rangers were given associate membership on the basis that Craig Whyte was not involved with the club. This was part of punishments meted out which included the transfer embargo upon the club – membership and licence to play football in Scotland was only granted due to these measures originally given to the OldCo being accepted by the NewCo. That one of these has been so flagrantly abused can only mean that the licence itself has been invalidated. In my own opinion, however, the SFA are unlikely to go down the route of taking away the club licence for practical reasons – it would remove a club from the league system, one that has already won their league, and the logistical headache it would cause would be so great as to deter the SFA from acting against the club itself, rather to take on the individuals involved (Unless UEFA pull their finger out, which they probably won’t).
The fourth is with the markets. As seen in 2012 when the PLUS market took action, you can’t cover up disqualifications of directors. That Craig Whyte’s name is on the registration of Sevco 5088 is something which will surely be of great interest to the AIM. While the punishment from the PLUS market was a £50,000 fine, AIM are a bigger market with bigger muscles and, crucially, are dealing with a club where the very validity of its ownership is in doubt, whereas PLUS were dealing with a case of one majority shareholder whose validity of their shareholding was never in any doubt. Currently, Rangers have many shareholders owning between 1 and 8% of the club but should BDO be taking a look into the transfer of the club and find reason to overturn the sale or call in the police further, AIM will have to take stronger action than simply fining the club. If there is considerable doubt placed upon the validity of the current owners to their actual ownership of the club, shares will be suspended. The share issue also complicates matters much further as, rather than Rangers being a phoenix club where you deal with one owner (or a small group), there are thousands of shareholders involved in the club. I have before questioned whether the mad rush to launch the share issue was a tactical ploy by the owners to complicate the ownership as much as possible as to make an overturn of the sale dragged out, expensive and impractical. Current revelations place this beyond doubt.
The fifth element is undoubtedly the most complex – the deeds. The assets of the club passed from Oldco to Sevco Scotland via Sevco 5088. Sevco Scotland, therefore, own Ibrox and Murray Park. However, they only own these because they have been passed on via Sevco 5088 who originally took the assets on. If Sevco 5088 are merely a phoenix, then the assets can be claimed back. Again, this is perhaps a tactical ploy by the owners of the club – after all, how does one overturn a sale of assets when the assets have already been passed on. Oldco and Sevco Scotland would, it appears, have equal right to having the assets of the club – Oldco because the original passing on to Sevco 5088 was not legitimate and Sevco Scotland because they will argue that OldCo’s right is no longer relevant and that they acted in good faith taking on the assets from Sevco 5088. No-one, in essence, owns Ibrox or Murray Park as no-one has a claim to the deeds that is unimpeachable. As a result, it would be hard to debate that the gates to Ibrox should be padlocked – after all, this is a club now with a right to their ground that is, at best, spurious and, at worst, fraudulent, a club whose licence to play football appears to have been gained on dishonest grounds and a club whose non-executive directors appear to be See no Evil, Hear no Evil and Speak no Evil with a CEO who is a puppetmaster with the strings tied around his own throat. For one, the public liabilities insurance would be invalid if the ownership of the ground is invalid also meaning that, from a health and safety perspective, Ibrox’s doors cannot open.
The sixth element are the police. They have been investigating this from day one and now they have a new lead in a case that is seemingly winging its way into the hands of the Serious Fraud Office. The opening of a phoenix company is covered under Insolvency Fraud Law – if it is suspected that Rangers is simply a phoenix company, the police would be interested. To quote police advice on the matter:
“Fraud happens when directors abuse the phoenix company arrangement by transferring the assets of the failing company below their market value before insolvency. By doing this, the fraudulent directors reduce the funds available to creditors when the original company becomes insolvent…
„,You should not be put off if the phoenix company claims the failed company’s liabilities are not theirs, when both companies appear to be the same”
While I cannot, of course, say definitively that there is something amiss or that anything illegal has occurred, the sheer complexity of the ownership of the club, the lack of transparency in the movement of assets and the repeated public proclamations of Charles Green that appear to have little basis in reality (and, generally, have proven to be the complete opposite) would suggest that there is enough reason for an expansion of the investigation into the sale of the club to Craig Whyte into the sale of the club upon liquidation. Like the many branches of Operation Yewtree into Jimmy Saville, it would appear that the investigation into Scotland’s very own decrepit, amoral and abusive institution is about to branch out further.
But there is one other element that has to be understood. There is one move available to Rangers, and only one. That there are so many elements to this farce make it extremely improbable that no-one will act against the club – if the SFA act against the directors, the rush sale will leave them with nothing. If the AIM act against the company, the money will dry up and leave them with nothing. if the SFA act against the club, they will be left with nothing. If the police get involved, they will be left with nothing. If BDO look to overturn the sale, they will be left with nothing.
That option is liquidation.
An MVL (or Members Voluntary Liquidation) is when the directors of a club vote to liquidate, appoint liquidators and the company ceases trading immediately. This would be done at a board meeting (of which there is one today). This can be overturned with a court order but it is rare and difficult to do. Tax changes have meant that should the amount received in a MVL be upwards of £25k it would be capital gains tax that is paid and not income tax (as it is no longer classed as a dividend) – this would be 28% rather than 50% taxation – a considerable margin! Of course, the liquidators would still be able to investigate transactions and practice at the club however the MVL would enable the club to choose their own liquidators therefore making that process considerably easier.
Finally, looking at where the money from a liquidation would go, as it would likely be a short process, after liquidators have been paid and wages, it is likely that the vast majority of the money would go to shareholders. Most of the shares are, of course, resident with the large shareholders who invested prior to the IPO at 1p per share. These shareholders stand to make a large profit. For those who invested at IPO stage (at 70p per share), they stand to make a considerable loss.
This can result in a perfectly legal phoenix company (and club), but there would have to be considerable doubt as to whether anyone involved in Rangers would have any wish to be involved with the club past taking their money and running. Were a new Rangers to come into action immediately, it would be under new ownership and a new consortium (I would suggest that the True Blues as led by Walter Smith last year would be likely front runners).
Crucially, the large amount of wolves circling Ibrox and the rapid speed at which the situation has deteriorated (we’ve gone from jovial racism to club extermination in under a week) will mean that were a MVL to be proposed, it would need to be done so almost immediately before shares could be suspended, before charges could be brought – it is no exaggeration to say that today’s game could be the last ever played by the club in its current form.
This, of course, would leave a massive headache for all involved. The SFA and SFL would have to deal with the ramifications of a club already promoted ceasing to exist in the form which got it promoted but still existing in a new form which, oddly, would be far more acceptable and far less prone to cock-ups than the current form.
Whatever your view on proceedings, the death of Rangers is now inevitable. If they don’t kill themselves off, someone else will do it for them. The ruse, if there ever really was one, has failed spectacularly with credit for it given to the one man who I doubt anyone would ever have thought would come out of this as a crusading hero of corporate transparency – Craig Whyte. It would appear that he was knifed in the back by Charles Green and friends who woefully underestimated his resolve not to be shafted over the value of the club and the value of his own stake in it so he has chosen to stab them in the front.
No-one knows all of the things all of the time and it will be a long time before this complex farce at the club is unravelled as to who duped who. Only one thing is certain – Charles Green’s era and his reanimation of Rangers Football Club will perish sooner rather than later.
The embers of justice, however, will burn far longer.
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14 hours ago
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Covering Football (and occasionally other sports) for your pleasure or to your frustration .
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Richard Wilson
Scottish football blogger. As seen in NME, Not The View on http://www.scottishfans.org/ mainly at http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk.
@thecroakgang @swirlz69 which bit of the starting premise are you disagreeing with? about 3 hours ago • Reply
@LWordsmith indeed. Would be surprised if SFA don’t just wait for commission verdict and agree with it for expediency about 5 hours ago • Reply
You know, if I said things were 2/3rds as long as they were, she’d be pleasantly surprised. When she does it, I’m just sat about for 30 mins about 5 hours ago • Reply
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Re the 5th element possession of the ground. Obtaining stolen goods “in good faith” does not mean that once it is established the goods are stolen that the good faith means the “purchaser” keeps them. The assets were not stolen but it is becoming clearer that they may not have been legitimately obtained by Sevco5088. Therefore can SevcoScotland really claim we obtained them in good faith and should keep them especially as officers of SevcoScotland knew most of the facts suggesting Sevcco5088 did not obtain them legitimately and indeed it is also mooted that SevcoScotland didn’t obtain them legitmately from Sevco5088 hence MBB’s recent actions.
D&P had a binding agreement to sell the assets to Sevco5088 if the CVA failed. Despite murmurings that this was a dodgy deal as it prevented a bidding war that may have been more beneficial to the creditors it is now looking an even more dodgy deal if the binding contract was ignored and Sevco5088 were cut out immediately. Of course it is possible that the binding agreement, who has seen it, didn’t specify Sevco5088 but its rather strange that almost 12 months on nobody has clarified/corrected that.
tykebhoy.
Yes, I had meant to emphasise ‘ The Fifth Element ‘ – wasn’t there a film with that name ?
Sorta busy elsewhere currenetly, but owed this a read ……
Here is where CG has been very clever ……
There is NO phoenix situation ……
RES11 ensured this …..
5088 never had the assets ……
So CW sidestepped ……
Thoughts ….. ?
Still decoding the message found under seat 4 cam ….
But I get the drift ……
Answer CG question at Precisely 11.00 into STV interview and will comply …..
newtz.
Was cam’s message an anagram ? howsiamntediun – do I win a prize?
Newtz, D&P……binding agreement with CG and Sevco group…..
Group of investors, or group of companies? ?
Can’t avoid thinking Chicco and Craigy could sort this matter in a flash if they wanted. If either has res 11 why hold?
A fine bird is a peewit/lapwing. Leads attackers away from the nest by feigning!
BDO will now be in possesion of relevant documentation (from D&P) …… we may just have to wait and watch ……. patience ….. and watch out for the early klaxon
If D&P have knowledge of CW involvement in 5088, they cannot proceed with asset sale……
CG cannot proceed with 5088 vehicle as he has knowledge.
Voila, Sevco Scotland.
@Johnbhoy
Haw Johnbhoy
Look oot the windae and see yon big white van that’s parked across the road~~~ watch fer four big fellas in white coats coming oot it…… and chapping yer door~~~ don’t worry pal….. They here tae help ya and don’t struggle when they put a padded white jackit oan ya ya’ll only hurt yerself … ti’s only a twinty meenit journey tae the big hoose where Dr Strangelove will be waiting tae examin ya ….. Mind ya the prognosis don’t look good!!!
@GWG
As Einstein says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
lol …Indeed~~~~~
but in the words of Abraham Lincoln
“If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one”
JohnBhoy
April 13, 2013 at 10:05 pm
As Einstein says, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
=================================================
Helping Rangers would be doing the same thing over!
Another 140 years of misery!
Interesting johnbhoy , don’t know about the colts idea but at least an idea , well thought out post though , in the end we need rivalry and no matter what anyone says football needs a strong Rangers and Celtic for competition alone , I honestly believe green was trying to do a bunnet , make cash and go with a profit , and Rangers won’t really take off again until a long term owner is in place , and if he’s done shyte up like a kipper good , we’ll wait and see the truth , not rumours , when it’s investigated properly . Ps MONTIT you show yourself at every opportunity as bitter , bigoted and full of hate , I don’t believe your a Celtic fan but a Rangers hater , take the chip off your shoulder , get a life , I honestly think your fellow fans are embarrassed by your pish .
What Scottish football needs is ~~~~ Honest & Above Question Administrators who are only accountable to the people (All the people) that employ them … NOT accountable and submissive to a bunch of Masonic Goat Fiddlers who’s only allegiance is to whit Ludge they belong to and to how thick the brown envelope is
Dont knock it if you havent tried it.
My turn for the goat next week.
God bless you my son, you know not what you say……
@carson
Thank you carson. Rivalry between the old firm will NEVER be lost. With regards to a strong old firm, I still think there needs to be somebody else challenging the old firm for the good of the game.
You know my view of Charles Green. I know yours. We differ.
I know, as everyone else does, that you and Monti are constantly at loggerheads. For what it’s worth, here’s my tuppence worth. I like Monti and I like you (TDs for that, either way!). I do not believe for one second that the more controversial comments coming from either of you are meant (Monti will now jump in and give me a mouthful lol). What I see are two warriors, on different sides of the fence, defending their respective clubs. It just so happens that, through club allegiance, I stand with Monti. Despite the onslaught from many posters, you are still here carson, still standing, still fighting back; and so it is with Monti. What is not to admire in that. Now, when both of you shake hands that will be one hell of a day.
Mr McGuinness shook hands with Mr Paisley. Anythings possible JohnBhoy. I deserve TUs for that conciliatory effort.
It’s also a day that’s far away Johnbhoy.
Every journey starts with a single step.
JohnBhoy
April 13, 2013 at 10:26 pm
Rivalry between the old firm will NEVER be lost.
====================================
The mess the Tribute Act are in makes the above a doubtful prediction.
Not long now…
I had a strange dream in which SDM duped Craig Whyte into an approach of Ticketus for the sole purpose to service the Lloyds TSB debt; the wheels were then set in motion for Whyte to be the fall guy.
In reality RFC was always a runaway train from the moment SDM agreed the deal with Whyte.
The fact that Ticketus has won their court action against Whyte would point to his onus of repayment of the sum used to clear RFC’s Loyds TSB debt.
Whyte would rumble the above threat from the beginning.
It always looked likely that Ticketus would intend to seize the assets of Craig Whyte; he would have automatically ring fenced the Ibrox assets in lieu of the debt now sought from him.
If Whyte hadn’t ring fenced the Ibrox assets; SDM may have intended to return to the throne and resume normal service with Ticketus (with the bonus of Whyte having had to settle with them independent of the Ibrox assets).
The most brazen aspect in this entire sham is the dual role of directors in relation to the Ticketus parent company and the layers of companies attached to TRFC.
If that Ticketus do acquire the assets of TRFC; the deal shall have turned full circle; but would that be detrimental to TRFC?
Would Ticketus charge extortionate rent as Ibrox landlords or due to the significant repairs and maintenance issues; would they be happy to return the lease for a nominal sum of let’s say £1?(with TRFC liable for the upkeep of the stadium)
In the end; whoever runs the football club shall require to borrow heavily from the sale of future season tickets.
Step up Ticketus.
Next stop Ibrox; we have been around the clockwork orange full circle (I’m feeling a bit queasy).
The above outcome would of course be dependant upon the continuity of the current SFA membership as held by TRFC; their journey may yet encounter further pitfalls.
Whoever said it’s ‘tough at the top’ was really taking the piss.
The only way to combat sectarianism is to abolish religion, i have heard all the rhetoric about tolerance etc etc, but let’s be honest celtic =catholic and rangers=protestant, history shows Scotland and the reformation changed things and separation and intolerance prevails today and always will. Religion is the tool chosen for the fight,rivalry etc and if you examine every other derby in the world ours is the only one fueled by religious hatred. i do not have a problem with religion except when it it becomes a device of hatred towards fellow man. I love your vision but i think too many will never abandon their faith and will cling to the baggage it brings with it.
You only have to read thick Mick and montits posts spouting pish about their kaffalik faith to realise religion is not the problem but bigoted knobs who have probably not been to a church in years but see it as an extension of their paramilitary / terrorist beliefs .
Carson you really are a dumb F**K dont you realise that one man’s “terrorist” is another man’s” President” British history is full of them in face yer own Scotland was considered a terrorist backwater for centuries…..
Eh?
Name the centuries.
If you mean the numerous wars with England, then you should be aware Scotland was a sovereign state – with all the trappings of such- fighting as such. In alliance for most of that period with France.
If you mean the Jacobite period then you are wrong again.
Aye~~# Scotland was then as it is now~~~~ Corrupt and full of early Masonic backstabbers that sold the country and the ordinary people off to the English….. Just like now in football… Regan / Donkeycaster / Ogilvy / Longmuir / Sir Walter of Myth and thon wee cheeky chappy
Another yin that needs tae join Johnbhoy in yon white van~~~
So it’s awe religions fault … Catholics / Protestants / Muslims / Mahat-Ma-Gandies and lets no forget aboot em’ pesky Koreans who’ll nuke awe us fer being whit we are.
Bollocks!!! don’t see any religious bother in Englandshire where I Live or in Germany Italy France Ferro Islands ect….. Naw the bother with Scottish football is indeed the PEOPLE that run it~~~~ Period!!
Usually freedom fighters fight when there is no political system to turn to ie the resistance during the last war , William Wallace ect , but the terrorist scum in Ulster do have a political system they just choose to attack democracy therefore they are not freedom fighters but common criminals.
I’m sure the people of Ireland that have suffered the ethnic cleansing of THEIR country for centuries would argue that point ~~~# hence Terrorists = Presidents
Do you mean Protestants?
naw~~~~ why?
Common Criminals ~~~ Straight from the thoughts of Maggie (NOT the one on here …The ONE that’s burning in hell)
Wallace was appointed Guardian of the Realm during an Interregnum whilst various factions fought internally over the Crown, specifically the Balliols and the Bruces.
Bruce as you know triumphed.
Mel Gibson didn’y see it that way~~~~ FRRRRREEEEEEEDOMMMMMM
Wallace fought to free his country in the name of the King
Oh aye Carson , Derry in 1969 was the bastion of democracy wasn’t it?
Get you fact right before condemning the idea of “one mans terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.
Derry ? Do you mean Londonderry ?
Maybe but was Londonderry a bastion of democracy in 1969. Please answer the question
D E R R Y ! actually!
carson
April 13, 2013 at 8:51 pm
Derry ? Do you mean Londonderry ?
===================================
No, he means Derry.
I am able to agree with you in this instance Carson. There is no excuse for using extreme violence to achieve political aims if there exists an effective democratic constitutional framework. That is why Gerry Adams has consistently condemned violence in Northern Ireland since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. You will also recall that after the 7th July 2005 bombings in London, Mr Adams sent a note of sympathy and solidarity to the mayor of London Ken Livingstone.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/16/northernireland.catholicism
political system, FFS
or this one
http://campaignforcivilrights.org/northernirelandarticles.php?id=158
Ulster’s idea of democracy, if only those uppity Kafflicks had know their place.
carson
April 13, 2013 at 8:10 pm
but the terrorist scum in Ulster do have a political system they just choose to attack.
===================================================
Your ignorance of Irish history is remarkable.
Paul, I can understand where you are coming from, but truthfully if everyone in Scotland, Catholic or Protestant actually followed the tenets of their faith there would be no trouble.
No religion I know of instructs its followers to hate others.
It is only those whose mix religion / football / politics into one heady brew that cause the bother.
They do not discuss transubstantiation or predestination or the benefits of prelacy. They see someone different, to be feared and despised.
@Paul
Paul, people are the cause of sectarianism, not religion. The rivalry between Barcelona and Real Madrid is rooted in politics, not religion – should we ban politics too? The historical differences between the old firm revolve around religion, politics and social class, not to mention fear and ignorance. I’m with Louise Nizer, an American lawyer: true religion is the life you lead, not the creed you preach.
So religion has feck all to do with Scotlands backwardness and sectarianism?
Only by those that wish to make it so and use’s it as an excuse to strengthen and justify their positions.
Anyways your argument is totally bonkers (sic Shug Keevins) your proposing to outlaw religion on the basis that it upsets the smooth running of Scottish football, why not lets have ONLY atheists and communists at the SFA instead of the present bunch of Bigoted / Sectarian / Racists megalomaniacs….
But an we be sure that atheists & Commies are more honest than what we have…..
Yon big whit van is outside yer door honking its hoorn
Ethnic cleansing ? Do you mean the protestants on the border with Eire ? …..fuckwit.
I’ll fuckwit ya ~~~ ya disgusting lowlife piece o shit
Away in follow yer auld faither wi his sash~~~~~ Moron!!
Sorry , It was supposed to be dumbf××k.
I know a song about that !
Aye~~~ the whole world heard it & the OTHERS on Tuesday Night
“The board wishes to re-iterate Rangers is a club which is opposed to all forms of prejudice and has a long-established policy of working extensively in the community through a variety of programmes and initiatives to tackle issues such as racism and sectarianism.” That’s why it invited Linfield to have a Bigotfest.The carcass is reeking.
GWG.
Just watched the vid – I’m sure it was just a minority lol. Shows what you’re up against JB !
GWG YOU’RE 100%ON BALL FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER AND I AM INTO MY SEVENTIES IT HAS TO HAVE BEEN THE BASTARDS THAT RAN THE SFA AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT THEY WE’RE WE DID NOT GET A RESULT UNTIL THE BUNNET HAD A GO AT THEM (WITH HIS OWN MONEY )AND PROVED WITH OUT DOUBT WHAT MADE THEM TICK AND WHAT FOOT YOU KICKED WITH SO NOW THEY HAVE FUCKED UP PLEASE DON’T INCLUDE ME OUR MY FAMILY TO HELP THE BIGOTED LOT OUT FOR THEY DON’T DESERVE ANY SYMPATHY NONE WHAT SO EVER THEY HAVE DONE THE WHOLE OF SCOTLAND THROUGH THERE BIGOTRY FOR PRIMARILY ONE TEAM AND ALL SCOTLAND KNOWS IT
OK auld yin~~~lol
no sure I follow (excuse the pun) “PLEASE DON’T INCLUDE ME OUR MY FAMILY TO HELP THE BIGOTED LOT OUT FOR THEY DON’T DESERVE” mind ya I’m knocking oan maself~~~ and the trouble with dealing with SOME of the Peeopul on here is they can only remember 9 in a row and have never lived in the real world of Scottish Fitba … still it wont be long now before we have a bigoted free Football country~~~ Thanks Mr Whyte~~~ yer a star!!
Will you auld gits stop SHOUTING .
whit~~~~ tae a disrespectful moron like you~~~~ NAW!!
Calm doon paw , it’s only a wee giggle .
Scottish football can only recover when The The Rangers die!!!!!!!
I agree that the attitude from the Govan club and their fans has created a rift that has hurt Scottish football. In the same sense as no one player should be bigger than the club he plays for, there should be no club bigger than the organisation of football in Scotland. Oldco threw up smokescreens for years, with the collusion of many trusted figures at the club and the organising bodies of Scottish football. When it came time to pay the piper, instead of asking how can we fix our game, the main thrust from the authorities was how do we save one club. No wonder our game is unsettled. The perceived preferential treatment, the downright arrogance of their fans and the belligerent attitude of the Newco C.O. , has painted them into a corner.
BTW the downfall of Scottish football came when our game could no longer produce fresh talent to fill in for all the better players looking to move to England, I would say that trend really started in the early to mid Seventies with the dispersal of the Hibs team and Celtic selling Kenny Dalglish for a lot less than he was worth, from then on it was about doing well in Scotland and moving on at a rate that could not be replenished, so although the entertainment value of Aberdeen and Dundee United did rise, every other club in Scotland was failing to keep even strike line ups together, never mind build a team with any longevity. The smaller Premier League was a bad idea then and it is a bad idea now. Plus the wages have reached obscene amounts when put up against the average wage of most of the supporters, many of whom scrimp to buy a ST book.
Preferential treatment ? If it wasn’t for the big club the rest of the diddy teams would not have a broadcasting deal , and it’s not arrogance , we really are ra peeepeeelll .
And just what IS this broadcasting deal ya talk about!!
to my certain knowledge Sevco get 1K a game from ESPN!!
ya see~~~ there ya go with the disrespect to other supporters that have just as much passion about the teams they support as you do “Diddy Teams” “we really are ra peeepeeelll” THAT’S WHY nobody wants you~~~ the FINAL death of Sevco cant come quick enough for the vast majority of real football supporters
And you sir, are a cock!
I suppose I have to answer this, but it is exactly the attitude that your showing at the moment, carson, that is to the detriment of Scottish football. All you want is a perpetual bluenose hegemony and not the development of the game. Well get this into your head your team are a long long way off track at the moment and it looks as if you should’ve listened to Bomber Brown. There are dark days ahead for Newco, just when you thought you were out, they pull you right back in again. I hope you have deep blue pockets, because TRFC will be asking for their contents again and soon.
I think it came when Sir David Bawbag signed half the England team~~~~ for MEGA money that was NOT HIS!!
I went to Boghead as a boy with my Dad, and continued going with my pals as I got older. I can’t remember any verbal against supporters. It was all directed at the players and officials. When the opposition scored, if it was good football, the goal was applauded (with polite clapping).
It seemed to me, at the time, that fans who supported Celtic or Rangers were more interested in being in a ‘gang’ than watching football. I have only seen one game at Parkhead. I went with a Celtic supporting pal, but found that it was a major hassle travelling from Dumbarton and not worth the effort.
I stopped going to games when I found other pastimes, but was always interested, and still am.
I had reached the conclusion a long time ago, that Celtic and Rangers would be better off in the FA, foolball wise, since they have this wider support than most of the other Scottish teams. They are always handicapped in Europe because of the lack of high intensity games in Scotland. Also it would allow the rest of the Scottish teams to find their own level, since supporters want to see sporting matches. It is the men who run the game who are only interested in the money side. It seems to be their only motivation.
They may never be allowed in the FA, however, I believe that Celtic and Rangrs would become football clubs again, with the worst of the baggage dropping off as they would become irrelevant.
JB.
See my earlier reply, which is, as I’m sure you are aware, not disparaging.
Hi Bud, don’t know what post you’re referring to – without even reading it, would have difficulty accusing you of being disparaging. I’ll have a look-see.
Cheers.
Bud, still don’t spot any demeaning commentary from your good self! Usual common sense and humour, but nothing that could be described as disdainful! You lot are definitely going easy on me tonight.
JB. Sorry, I meant , to your original post.
Morning Bud. No problems with your response at all.
I just don’t know where all the 70 year olds, the auld gits and paws get the energy to yell and bawl and scream on here. I get breathless jist switching on ma laptop! By the second comment I’m utterly shagged with the crap!
Apologies for my less than polite language – a throwback to my building site days. It is jist no like an aul bugger like me.
Johnboy
I have previously been critical of your pro-Celtic anti-Rangers comments, but I have to agree wholeheartedly with your post.
If you have previously been on the windup then well done, because you got the hook in me, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt in future.
Rangers currently is a clusterfuck and suggesting integration of any sort between RFC and CFC is a hugely positive move.
It doesn’t matter if you are shouted down about it, but it is an important day when a Celtic fan suggests breaking bread with the orcs, erm, I mean Rangers fans! 🙂
“orcs”~~~~ yep I’ll go with that
“Orcs are of human shape, of varying size but always smaller than Men. They are depicted as ugly and filthy, with a taste for human flesh. They are fanged, bow-legged and long-armed and some have dark skin as if burned. In a private letter, Tolkien describes them as “squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes… …degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types”.[8] They are portrayed as miserable, crafty and vicious beings”
I keep saying that I have no wish to see Rangers Die and that I seriously do miss the games four times a season (can’t say ‘OLD FIRM’) but I have always distrusted Charles Green and could never understand the Rangers Support not recognising his bully bhoy tactics to get what he wants. He may well be innocent in the whole inquiry but the fact is that ‘HE LIED’. As my mother taught me – ‘ou can catch a thief but never a liar’
The decent Rangers fans (which I reckon are most of them) do not deserve this constant abuse – not by media or the Celtic fans but within their own club.
I think what we need is a ” truth and reconcilliation commission” similar to South Africa after Apartheid died. However I don’t see many of the current football establishment and the “ra peepul” actually admitting that they did anything wrong. “We have been punished enough!!!!”
Merging of clubs is a good idea. For Celtic to have any merger with sevco is the wrong way to go. Clubs in close proximity within Scotland who are struggling should merge. I`m sorry but sevco are a disgrace. To say” let`s help them out” No. If this mod do find their feet again and again they`ll repeat their cheating ways.
@JB..John, I had a long post written, then I went to check on a fact about attendances and when I came back to said post, most was like that football club from the soo side, gone.
I had retired last night to my scratcher with 3 TDs ???????
Carson must have morphed into 3 people.
My post was complimentary of your foresight although unlikely to bear fruit but without triers you have nothing.
I think GWG had stated earlier that freemasonry was woven through our governing bodies. We have no way of verifying this although in the case of Mr Ogilvie, his subsequent position within the hierarchy smells suspicious.
Here was a man who was hailed as an administrative genius yet the club formerly known as rangers died on his watch. The SFA have been shown to be out of touch, corrupt and downright useless when it comes to administering their own rules. The common denominator, whom I may add was never stood down, was one Mr Campbell Ogilvie.
I watched one of the most exciting games I had seen in a long time yesterday. I congratulate both teams for the spectacle they put on and felt sorry for Falkirk with their team full of young guys. At least the futures bright for them with that squad of young talent.
Getting to my point finally was the derisory crowd. Hampden holds 50,000 yet large swathes of the ground had empty seats. Cannot anybody in the governing body come up with a solution to minimise this embarrassment. Reduce ticket prices and advertise the fact. 50,000 at half price is better than 25,000 at full price
JB, I commend your effort but from a selfish point of view, I feel Celtic have to leave Scotland to have any chance on the bigger stage. If that were to happen, there would be a more even spread of the dosh. Until the the rangers sort themselves out, then they can have no part in the road forward.
The SFA have shown themselves to be useless. You actually wonder how they thought they could get away with it. A clean sweep is required from the top.
So I cannot be accused of sitting on my fat arse without any reasonable input I will put forward these suggestions based on your plan
Welcome back Alistair Johnston to the fold (John Greig as figurehead)
Decry all sectarian bile and publicly ban offensive songs, regalia etc
Stop blaming everyone else and state this publicly
Get Whyte and Green sidelined (with authorities on the case)
Apologise to Fran Sandaza
Apologise to the names Sally wanted out in the open
Only when forgiveness is sought can penance be given
If the siege mentality continues, ostracise them until it stops
Only then JB can I see any chance of an olive branch being extended to the soo side mob.
limpet noun
Definition of LIMPET
1: a marine gastropod mollusk (especially families Acmaeidae and Patellidae) that has a low conical shell broadly open beneath, browses over rocks or timbers in the littoral area, and clings very tightly when disturbed
2: one that clings tenaciously to someone or something
3: an explosive device designed to cling magnetically to a metallic surface (as the hull of a ship)
4: Campbell Ogilvie; disgraced President of the Scottish Football Association (see also IMPERVIOUS)
JohnBhoy your a man after my own heart, but there is no way forward, sideways or backwards for these clowns.
We are not talking about a normal footballing institution like Dunfermiline or Motherwell we are talking about Britians most toxic sporting institution ever.
Pull the plug, the life support. the whatever is keeping the Frankenstein club in tangible health. Cheerio , cheerio , cheerio, lets get this over with. Whats the point of continuing this lamentable facade?
SCOTTISH FOOTBALL CAN ONLY MOVE ON WHEN THE THE RANGERS DIE & I LOOK FORWARD TO THIS DAY………DON’T TRUST THEM, THEY ARE SICK & I WOULD URGE EVERY FAN TO STAND FIRM & OFFER THEM NO OLIVE BRANCH…….THE TIME IS NEAR…………DEATH APPROACHES…..
Great read johnbhoy but am in the tesco camp let die that’s what a say then glasgow is a 1 city club this honours the Celtic product you don’t see Pepsi wanting to save cola so why should Celtic want to save rangers sevco so that reason on Celtic product growth a have got to disagree lol mon the hoops at hampden today thatcher or sevco whyte banner today maybe who nos but after last weeks horse and other banners it will take some beating
Can somebody put a timescale on the amount of time left for sevco. The suspense is killing me. Is it hours, days, weeks or months???
@Fra
Yesterday.
June 14th 2012
Hours….hopefully
lovely my man Mick
We interrupt this blog cast to say that JohnBhoy will resume normal service as soon possible.
Ok, who spiked my drink on Friday?
JohnBhoy:
A quote from your post:
“I, and others, have had enormous fun at your club’s expense but, joking aside, what do you think Rangers should do? I was reading the other day about Tiger Woods. It seemed to me that he followed a text-book approach to rehabilitation: COMPLETE contrition right away, EVERYTHING out in the open right away, all the while quietly getting on doing what he does best – playing golf.”
Yes, the American authorities decided to help Penn State with their rehabilitation also….
john”BHOY”?
call yourself a celtic “fan”?
what a lot of sho1te.
rangers are gone. problem sorted.
if the knuckle draggers can’t get over that fact then that is the issue.
the issue being, they cannot accept and cannot understand the truth.
you are pandering to the emperors new clothes syndrome they have
Jim, thank you for your poem.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ex-rangers-boss-walter-smith-league-1831128.
Sorry JohnBhoy, but there is no way forward for Scottish fitba’ The cardigan says so!
He is gracious enough to admit that it was all the fault of his catastrophic player purchasing, the failure to pay creditors and Hector, which resulted in the death of Rangers which caused it.
Our only hope is to promote Sevco, to a level 3 leagues above their capability. That won’t be a problem, because they can embark on a catastrophic player purchase programme and…..
Walter, shut up!
Obviously, that was not his exact turn of phrase, and neither did he make any mention of massive sporting advantages.
He did however say that, “I’m not bright enough to have the answers, but Sevco need to be in the premier league”.
Walter…….SHUT UP!
barca.
They have a Four hour meeting ! Four hours!
I don’t know if that’s the norm at Ibrox , but in my experience, two hr meetings always seemed interminable.
So, what has actually happened here? First scenario:-
Sir Walthus De Cardigan , dignitus emeritus , in full ermine regalia and crown, sits at the head of the privy council. He then proclaims ;- Chasicus De Verde ! You are hereby denounced as a, er, em, a erm [ Fatsalicus leans over and whispers in his ear ] oh aye -right says De Cardy – ta much fatso. Where was I? Oh aye, Chasicus, you are a dirty, filthy. cheatin,pox ridden, two timing, lying, double crossing, two faced, thieving,traitorous, back stabbing, insidious, capitalist whoremonger !!!
Welcome to the Board ! – —Thunderous applause and table thumping!
Right ok! You’ve got your bonus! Now 2nd item on the agenda:- [ Fatsalicus again whispers in his ear ] -Oh aye! Erm, listen Chasicus, you really must learn how tae caw a wog a wog wi dignity and respect. if you know whit ah mean ? Cardy then, in an aside,says ” nae disrespect big man ” – whit’s yer name again? Amen somethin or other? good Christian name that !
Okaaaay everybody! Settle doon! [ bangs the gavel a few times! ] Aw fer F**ks sake! Wid somebiddy get that fat bastard’s face ootey the buffet lunch!
Them pies are meant for everybody! Whit’s that Amen? Aye they’re pork pies, – is that some kinna problem like? RIGHT !!! [ more gavel banging! ]
AH BIT OF ORDER HERE !!! [ De Cardy shouts ]
We’ve been in here for nearly 20 minutes, so 3rd, and most important, item on the agenda.
How the f**k do we contain this total f**k up ?
There’s no need for change, at this rate sevco will be out of business soon and they will have their self fulfilling prophecy and all their grandkids will be Celtic Supporters
Well it looks like Rangers might just have really blown it this time. The ramifications of all of this will be financially severe, especially if the smoke and mirrors of the story of their financial strength turns out to be just that. Hard to see how they could come back from this without another administration and probably liquidation.
I don’t see how Scottish football benefits from keeping Rangers alive. In fact, I think we should finish the job and break up that other footballing wet blanket that smothers the best efforts of the rest of us to have a fair and honest (if not always level) playing field. Now that the Gers may be heading out of the way, the time is right for Celtic to be broken up into two or maybe even three different teams. When a single bank, I mean club, gets too big to fail, then it has to be broken up. Rangers were deemed by Scottish football as too big to fail and I don’t doubt Celtic would be seen in exactly the same way. Lets do the right thing in advance for once. How about Parkhead Panthers playing in white and the Gorbals Gogetters playing in green. Partick Thistle would start season 2013/14 as Glasgow’s highest placed club. How cool would that be?
A new season, a new start, some new clubs and a promise, never, ever to let ourselves fall into the cold dark cave that the Old Firm have dragged us into. But we beat Barcelona, I hear you cry. Pride of Scotland, and all that nonsense. The time will come when Spain realises that it too can’t survive with two or three massive clubs overshadowing all the rest. England will get there too. Lets take the high road, Scotland. Send the old firm packing now, and get back to football as a sport and a past-time. Not the dog eat dog, multi-national business where the devil administrator (no offence Mr. Jackson) will take the hindmost and any other poor unfortunates that let avarice and pride alone be their definition of success.