I posted last about Gordon Smith’s BBC interview where he seemed, undoubtedly by accident, to have re-written the history of Rangers entering administration.
I don’t know whether it was the Administration Anniversary celebrations that brought them out of the woodwork, but the lesser spotted baloney seemed prevalent over the last couple of days.
I turn now to Mr McCoist.
(As an aside, have a look back at the Share Prospectus. Three times it refers to Mr McCoist as “the Club’s all-time leading scorer”. Nowhere does it praise his managerial performance.)
Today saw Mr McCoist speaking to the Sun. (I cannot recall just now whether or not the Sun is on the list of publications and news outlets with which Rangers fans are in dispute).
Messrs Whyte and McCoist in happier and less tempestuous times
He was quoted as follows, discussing Craig Whyte:-
“I haven’t spoken to him. There are obviously a lot of questions which remain unanswered.
“The one thing that the Rangers fans deserve is an answer to a lot of those questions. Hopefully, in the fullness of time, we will get them.
“I do believe there is still a process going on with Strathclyde Police. They are taking a great interest in making enquiries into the purchase of the club at that time. It would be wrong of me to comment while there is an investigation ongoing.
“But there is a train of thought — whether it’s right or wrong — that the football club and the people within the football club might actually be the victims of a crime.
“So we will have to wait and see what happens with that one.
“Hopefully it’s a story that will be told one day because a lot of people deserve answers.”
As we all know, Mr McCoist, as with the SFA Disciplinary Panel last year, is good at demanding answers.
Maybe, if he is looking for answers regarding Mr Whyte, he could look at the Rangers Tax Case Blog, parts of which have come back online. He could read Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s blog or his book, “Downfall”. He could even read what I wrote about Mr Whyte on this blog. Maybe he will find the answers he is looking for here?
I do like the way that, having said he can’t comment whilst there is an investigation, he comments while there is an investigation.
As no one really seems to know what Mr Whyte, if indeed it is he, is being investigated for, I think it would be hard to be accused of prejudicing an enquiry.
But how can Rangers be the victim of a crime?
As I said on my last post, and as no one has yet contradicted when I have said it before, “Rangers” benefited from any “crime” or sharp practice from Mr Whyte or his allies.
That might seem unduly inflammatory, and indeed “hate filled” but hear me out.
Sir David Murray’s MIH Group sold its 85% stake in Rangers Football Club PLC to Mr Whyte for £1. In addition, the debt of almost £20 million owed to Lloyds was cleared too. That meant that, after Mr Whyte’s takeover at least the bank was not clamouring for its money.
What then happened?
Rangers suffered a perfect storm of ill-luck (or karma, if you so believe). They went out of both European competitions without passing “Go”. This was the catalyst for the disaster which followed. The millions which had been part of Rangers budgeting for years were not coming in the autumn of 2011. Maybe £10 million or more which would otherwise have come into the coffers did not arrive.
In previous years Rangers had used the UEFA earnings as a lifebelt, keeping the company afloat on the stormy sea of huge wages and costs. But Mr Whyte happened to be the skipper when the lifebelt deflated.
Rangers running costs were over £2.5 million per month. How could it survive?
Mr Whyte came up with the idea that, by not paying VAT and PAYE, he could re-inflate the lifebelt. I have no doubt too that this was intended merely to be a short term measure until the financial waves died down, when he would of course have made up the tax shortfalls.
Why does no one ask what paid the bills at Ibrox from October 2011 until February 2012?
Does no one wonder where the £3 million which was in Rangers bank when Duff and Phelps took over came from?
It was the money from the unpaid tax bills.
That is how Rangers benefited. By not shutting down earlier. By being able, thanks to the sacrifice of players some of whom gave up 75% of their wages for three months, and then were abused for leaving, to reach the end of the season and the point where a sale could proceed.
Mr McCoist might look at the team he manages now and ponder being in SFL3, with many, but by no means all, of his internationalist players having left. But Rangers are not where they are because of Craig Whyte. They are where they are because for years European income kept them afloat, and when, in 2011, this income was non-existent, there was no safety net (apologies for the mixed metaphor).
Craig Whyte did not help matters – he was the engine driver when the train hit the buffers. But it is a wholesale attempt to rewrite history to suggest that it was all “the big boy who did it and ran away”.
So Rangers were not victims. They were not complicit (if you separate Mr Whyte from Rangers and of course legally that is not the case).
Clearly however Mr McCoist is convinced of Rangers status as victims. After all, as he said in April 2012:-
“Rangers Football Club was a victim of what happened during the tenure of Craig Whyte. The club was not an accomplice, a co-conspirator nor a perpetrator of wrongdoing. We suffered from it and still are.”
With all due respect to the all-time leading goal scorer in Rangers history, he is wrong. Rangers Football Club was in no way a “victim”.
Posted by Paul McConville
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
Aye Paul, but try telling Sevco fans that.
Oh wait….you just did.
I missed your Gordon Smith blog Paul but just read it. I genuinely believe Smith did NOT know the tax strategy. Whyte was hiding things from everyone in the club and only a very select few knew exactly what was going on. Thats why he got rid of everybody “important” in the first place and also why a few people left of their own accord, including people he brought in.
As to how Rangers could be described as a victim, whilst i fully take on board what you are saying above, it is STILL my opinion that if Whyte had been stopped from buying the club using Ticketus money, and had Murray carried on, then we would not have went into administration in February last year and we would still be in the SPL right now.
That is not to say however that administration wouldnt eventually happen as I have always held the opinion that the BTC will go against us, and if the appeal is overturned then it would clearly be inevitable.
Now, the first question that is going to come back is around Lloyds, the overdraft and Alistair Johnstons comments, but it was a shot across the brows of Murray and Johnston re the bank withdrawing the overdraft, the reality may have been wholly different.
But Adam there are Directors meeting each month the financial situation was known for years, £2.5 million debt per month…. its laughable to suggest NO-ONE knew what was happening, bills were either being paid (and you ask wheres that money come from) or not paid (and you ask why not).
This why directors go to jail, do not pass go and dont collect £200 – they paids well but thier life and freedom on the line at every directors meeting.
Whyte was not holding Board Meetings. That was one of the many reasons McLelland and Greig stood down.
They should have done much more to find out why no board meetings were being held and what company business they were missing out on by not having board meetings. From memory i think there were over 260 creditors building up yet not one other person employed by rangers took an angry phone call or opened a letter from an angry creditor and was able to expose the non payment. Is it common place to bother the owner with papershop bills and demands from face painters.
You where on RTC and saw the debates on ticketus and non payment of tax from very early in whytes reign. Why did you not inform your contacts inside ibrox
My main contacts inside Ibrox were got rid of early doors. By xmas, there was only one decent contact still in a job and i know she was getting lied to.
The main contacts all knew about Whyte. Their views were made clear to Murray about selling.
Smith was there right through to admin day yet he never heard a squeak about non payment of bills or impending admin. Maybe ally could have told him as he had heard rumours. Did all the regular suppliers who had been dealing with “debbie in the office” or “steven in accounts” for years now have to deal solely with Whyte. Did corporate box holders not discuss with each other at the games that their bills where not being payed, could no one mention this to sandy or hately or greig or gordon during the meet and greet sessions in hospitality. It is utterly preposterous to suggest that only a small handpicked crew of whytes goons were privy to all the financial misdemeanours going on at Ibrox while the internet was in meltdown with informed speculation.
To give you an example, for many many years, i had corporate packages through businesses at both Celtic and Rangers which were between them circa £50k per season. I frequently discussed things with old Board members at various functions/meetings/matches. I advised my board not to renew our packages when Whyte took over but i still remained in contact with various people at the club including many acquaintances who still renewed.
I am on record on RTC that both they and I were requesting meetings with Whyte in order to sit down and ask appropriate questions. These were all blanked though he always found time to meet with the idiots from RST and some of the other factions that would ask him “When are you releasing the Lennon video from the tunnel?” “How much are you going to sue the BBC for?” “Are we getting the orange strip back?”
In the end, as a shareholder, i sent a letter with around 30 very probing questions by Special Delivery on Monday 6th February marked for his strict and private attention.
7 days later, he stood on the front steps of Ibrox and publicly announced the reason he wouldnt be replying to me. (metaphorically speaking)
Adam
As Directors they are responsible for Company Business. In the case of the Company Secretary in particular you cant simply say that you didn’t know or that the boss didn’t hold board meetings. Its their job to know! if they are suspicious of activities going on at board room level they are obliged to take action. To do nothing or walk off in the huff isnt good enough. As with an awful lot of people around at the time they actually did nothing, took no action of any note at all to reign things in and save the situation.
So many people involved from Murray – who ran up enormous debts then flogged the whol thing for a £1 – to the old school of boardroom Directors walked away from this because of the bogey man, Whyte. The reality is they were possibly complicit in what happened at Ibrox or at least not fit to be a Director of a Company.
And everyone of them walked away from it. As a Dees fan I watched the same happen at Dens Park. I would happily see some of them in jail and the same with those at Ibrox. The fans at Ibrox seem deliberately ignorant of this, presumably due to the fact that it shows that the whole edifice of the club they followed was mired in this, possibly all the way from the players on the field (Lord Nimmo and Tax Case allowing) to the Chairman in the Board room. As with McCoist they prefer the victim tag than to realise they have been duped and lied to by many, many people at the very top time and again, just as at Dens.
Adam @ 12:11
No reply function under your comment.
Why did you leave it till feb 6th. It was obviously a busted flush long before then. My point is that you could see that whyte was not paying bills long before february and i guess that there were many like you who had invested over the years and had stopped when whyte took over. These other guys like yourself would have had the ear of the sandys and g smithys still employed throughout whytes reign and yet not one of yous informed them of impending doom or bill avoidance. Not one person from the office had seen a final demand for payment and privately confided in the trusted sandys or smithys about their concerns. Surely after the independant takeover board had publicly called the takeover by whyte into question, vigilance would have been the order of the day to ensure that whyte stuck to his promises and was operating the club in professional manner. But no, we are expected to believe only whyte and his allies knew of the corporate failure around the corner and that not one single creditor appealed to long time rangers men within the club about non payment of bills, or not one single fan quizzed these rangers men about the furiously growing rumours of ticketus deals and witholding of PAYE and NI. Everyone within Ibrox happily turned up for work each day completely unaware that massive problems where building up until the completely unexpected admin announcement.
Purlease!
My circumstances were a little different and i didnt have as easy access at that time, but as i stated, we were trying to do it the sensible way first of all by trying to get a meeting.
It has to be remembered that i was always critical of him but never had anything 100% concrete. Something happened in January which made me take the further action of the letter.
@Gerry
Wilful blindness. There’s a great deal of it at Rangers old and new.
In fact it’s an epidemic,that and the Rangersitis that infected Chico. 🙂
Adam, regarding McClelland and Grieg,”Stood Down” More like, did a runner when THEY Knew what was about to surface! ALL the Directors” KNEW!
Real choice was sell players and limp to end of season and be demoted, or dont pay taxes and go to admin. Seems stuff creditors was the plan, when demotion 1 div, could have meant better survival ?????
So clear directors plan – goto admin ! Fans could have stopped this – but wanted div3 instead and debt-free status… but think they miscalculated the cost (no accounts to get back into top div/europe for 3 or 4 or 5 years???).
@Adam
I see some RTC posts are back up and I wondered if the poster named ‘Adam’ on there was indeed yourself as a lot of his posts concentrate on the Lloyds issue.
As to people knowing I refer to my unernoted post where Jackon and Jabba apparently advised the SFA approx August 2011 that Whyte wasn’t paying tax and this was allegedly revealed in a DR podcast last year on 26/6/2012.
————————————————————————-
ecojon
February 14, 2013 at 10:39 am
WHEN DID TRAYNOR EXPOSE WHYTE AND TO WHO
The Darkside say that a Record podcast by Jackson and Traynor on 26/6/2012 stated they had told the SFA 10 months earlier – approx August 2011 – that Whyte wasn’t paying tax.
It’s worth remembering that August 2011 is just after the article that Traynor appears to have collaborated with Whyte on.
The link is: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/videos-pics/2012/06/26/podcast-rangers-newco-face-spl-wilderness-86908-23901091/
Attempting to access the file bring up the message: ‘The file could not be found for a number of reasons such as the file being moved or deleted’.
Anyone with a copy of the podcast or ideas how to find it as I take nothing at face value which is published on the Darkside.
@adam
Your opinion that if murray had retained the reins at ibrox and assuming the same european results where the club were eliminated from the competitions, is flawed as the main driver in this was the banks. they held the strings over MIH not just RFC and the fact that they themselves were being squeezed makes the survival of the club unlikely at the time. Murray had for years run the club by roundabouting MIH “lending assets” and was no longer able to do that do to the change in banking policy. thats why he ran away when he could collect his £1.00 on the way and saved face…….at least for the time being.
@paul
Do I detect the slightest change of tenor in your tone of writting today Paul, the gloves are partially removed, which i believe is correct in response to some of the bile that has poured forth this week directly and indirectly at you and many of the “internet bampots”.
I believe that we are shortly entering a time where more serious matters concerning this topic will appear and as has been written here by Johnbhoy and others the fallout will be significant.
The patience of those who have held reasonable integrity is wearing thin and its time to call an end to the arrogance, misinformation and lies that are spread as truths and half truths in the bear community. Its time they realised that there word is not trusted and now never believed and they really are not wanted in Scotland or despite what chuckles says anywhere else in Europe.
Rangers debt was in a position that it hadnt been close to for many many years. They were cash positive as well. They had paid off something like £15m of debt to trade creditors, loans and leases in the previous 2 seasons from Cash receipts.
The elephant in the room though was the BTC. That was the only reason Lloyds were pressing MIH to sell for £1. And understandably so.
Having said all of that, had the sale not went ahead, banking facilites were still in place, there was cash in the bank, there was no overdraft at the time, the big loan was getting paid off at £1m per year and in my opinion, Murray would have made it work.
Of course, this is all hypothetical and its likely we wont agree.
Had the sale not went ahead then £18m of bank debt would have remained alongside the banking facility. After allys failure to secure euro revenue for that season then rangers where destined to lose over £10m during the season. Would lloyds have increased the overdraft to circa £30m or would another way have to be found to fund this shortfall. What other way could rangers have funded this. Allys failure ensured the clubs failure to see out the season.
The £18m was a long term loan. It was completely separate to the overdraft. There was an agreed £10m overdraft which was in place until at least December 2011.
I will rephrase it then. Would lloyds have allowed rangers debt to them increase by over £10m with the btc still unresolved. I think not, leaving murray with the problem of finding alternative funding. How would he have funded it if lloyds had pulled the overdraft facility.
lloyds had already, and also the RBS given out plenty of loans to murray and his company, the even took a hit on that, the troubled bank was under investigation and still are and all directors, even none directors are made aware of there responsibilities, and under law have to report every thing
dodgy, not knowing nothing! that’s a joke for the likes of the red tops they walk in here with both eyes wide open
no matter what anyone says, it is all there responsibility and even before whytes time to keep themseves from imprisonment. Whyte might have had the idea, this was a simple choice, but what happened was he forgot about the fans, in normal business closure there are no followers
so whyte can sleep easy in all the closures he performed big difference now
@Adam
“That was the only reason Lloyds were pressing MIH to sell for £1.”
Don’t think Lloyd’s put a price on it, esp given that they were owed £18m.
Smudgier was too busy in Brazil with the freeloaders ‘spreading the brand’I’d like to know what he was doing ‘for Rangers in the SFA, he had an HND in business ffs how was that cretin picked for that post?
It was the SFA. You really dont expect the SFA to do anything right do you ?
Oops, nearly missed the paranoid portion. See Joes post. 🙂
so, rangers(MIH) knew that their was 2 problems – the BTC and the WTC.
why did rangers not put money aside to tackle these issues?
that IS the REASON that rangers ended up going into oblivion and now,
no longer exist.
apparently, sevco
(who want to be known as rangers, but are really a new club set up after
rangers went into liquidation)
are now also spending more per annum than they are taking in and are now despearate to earn extra money, by selling he naming rights to ibrokes and the roof of murray park.
as for rangers and crime…
did rangers play a charity match -v- a c milan, then “donated” the proceeds, to – erm RANGERS !
maybe paul mcC could have a look at OSCR website/rules, and give us a legal “opinion” on whether or not RANGERS and RANGERS[charity]
were indeed, involved in criminal activity
in “donating” charity money to a PLC !?
I would like to see this clarified. If it turns out that this did actually occur then it is truly scandalous and despicable. Corsica and latterly corsica charity have intimated that this has been looked at by a charity regulator, would this be publicly declared if wrong doing occured, would criminal charges follow. Why has this deplorable action not been followed up vigorously to conclusion.
Paul.
Could you maybe have a wee look and inform the blog. Thanks.
@adam
cant believe how niave u are adam I knew whyte was paying nobody, paye and ni too.believe me everyone who was anyone at ibrox knew. why throw good money after bad when up against the wall and your exit route is a planned administration at 500k fee max and all over within 7 days. a game they had all played many times before. try this if it helps
hullo hector john greig here the greatest living ranger and current director r we utd wi wer payments like.
hi hector sally mccoist here rangers all time record scorer whit wis a meant tae say och same q as greigy a think we should b told a really do.
the tripe pic was on another post but u dont half right it adam.
Load of bull. Why am i naive when even back in RTC days, i was questioning Whyte ?
Rewrite history all u want!
adam the word within the game was “rangers its not if ,its when”…… the game was surprised it took so long ,the withheld tax and enic was the explanation alongwith the face painters butchers and bakers and candlestickmakers and loving cup polishers.
answer this why did the administration run at a loss even with 75% salary cuts.
your club had a wage bill that had lost the shield of tax avoidance and had no chance of meeting its committments and displayed an apalling attitude to creditors and fellow football club members.
you even tried to sign a player while in administration a 35 yo striker ffs. where was the “guys we have stuffed a lot of people in this maybe we should be selling our better players and paying some people back ”
naive or disgraceful take your pick.
Good deflection tactics from the man whose managerial incompetence caused the implosion. Nothing new from the cheeky chappie!!
Isn’t the rewriting of history just an addendum to the years of head burying that went on for years under SDM’S reign? There appears to be a ongoing mantra to the belief that Rangers are somehow better than everyone and even when it goes wrong, ‘we wuz robbed’ Many thought that maybe as they were liquidated that a cultural shift would happen, but amazingly they have got worse.
This approach, where they are an entrenched, can surely on lead to this all happening again. They are believing their own hype, and it’s going to end in more tears.
Ps how much for a photo for Mr McCoist sitting at Starbucks reading ‘Downfall’?
I’ll gift you one of him substituting it for Andrex.
He’s got a more pressing need for Andrex
@Macduff
You’re presupposing he can actually read 🙂
Aug 2008 was Rangers best chance to avoid being what the vast majority see them as – an irresponsible club ran irresponsibly by irresponsible people backed by an irresponsible support and irresponsible Scottish media.
Dead or alive that stigma will never go away.
In Aug 2008 rather than budget to pay the tax bill that was at that point £24m without penalties Rangers decided to “trade” their way out of trouble with a net spend of circa £10m from sales of £19m and purchases of £29m, and that does not includef the high wages those signings required over 3 or 4 years.
SDM, true to form took a punt with other people’s money, theft being another description, and the victim has been our game, although the pain has been most acute at the crime scene as the consequences of that irresponsible decision have unfolded.
But Rangers and everyone associated with them are the cause of their perceived victimhood. No one else but the institution and beliefs surrounding it and no one outside that circle is involved.
Vast majority of who?
Thats your opinion, that if you repeat it often enough you might just convince yourself.
Any stigma you try to attribute is fixed firmly in your head.
The tax bill has been proven(pending,blah.blah) to be unfounded and the stigma attached to the RTC blogger is fixed firmly in my head.
Now SDM is a thief? and Rangers are the cause of Scottish fitba’s failure?
Keep repeating your tired mantra and have fun.
OK! Forget the Tax Bill, For Now! WHY oh WHY did the old clubs fans especially the millionaires,Sit on their arses and watch the old club enter administration then eventual LIQUIDATION? Then after a Feeble attempt watched Helplessly a Yorkshireman walking in and buying Ibrox and Murray Park, before setting up HIS new version of Rangers! Who would ever have thought???? But that WAS the Problem,You all Thought it couldn,t happen! YES! LIQUIDATION! being honest, I thought it would never happen either! Especially when they seen the Celtic Fans reaction to the danger and pressure their club was under from Murrays Bank! Celtic Men forced the resignation of the Dross that was ruining the club, but sadly or maybe gladly Old Rangers fans did not do the same! WHAT A SHAME!
Are you being deliberately thick?
Forget the tax bill???
The organised group of tax law experts,legal advisors and company law advisors,AKA RTC(allegedly) spent 18 months making sure nobody could forget the 100% certainty of a guilty verdict.
The parallel between the fans stepping in to save the club is totally skewed.
cam there were millions due to the exchequer from the FTTT its just the way its been reported that allows a blue nose view of “we won “. i guess we will never be told how many ebts in total were outside tax law and the amount. there were millions due to the exchequer from the dos scheme. whyte bought a busted flush for a quid. which bit of this is incomprehensible to all of bear persuasion…… employees handed back over £40,000 PER DAY in salaries so that your mad club could complete the season and even at that the administrators still made a loss for the period they were in charge. never before heard of i understand an administrator running at a loss.
i repeat whyte bought a busted flush for a quid
Why would you never be told? Is it not accessible information?
The baying mob had the Gers down as tax cheats hence the RTC blogger and the FTTT.
The result went against the preferred option and the greetin started.
The UTT is for what purpose exactly?
Ah yes to return a more favourable result.
Cam’s gettin’ angry.Still doesn’t understand Whyte (rfc) used income tax and N.I. contributions to run the club/company.Tax cheats? Now and forever.
@arb
There were 81 sub-trusts for Rangers players (FTT Decision p. 22.) The FTT looked into 50, so it’s safe to assume the other 31 were liable.
As we all know (although some have trouble ackowledging the fact) 5 of the 50 examined were also found liable.
Add those numbers up & we get a total of 36 out of the 81 sub-trusts (45%) which fell outside tax law. Of course certain other posters on here & elsewhere will continue to deny this inconvenient truth.
cam here it is in simpleton form for you and all teddies out there its not in joined up writing so there is a chance… slim i admit
‘Tax Cheating’
SDM
1. The Dos Scheme
2. The EBT’s the FTTT found and the ones that were pre- admitted to
CW
1. PAYE
2. ENIC
millions of pounds cam that rfc withheld from the revenue of the united kingdom.
@rabthecab
cheers r…… am pretty sure there were more than 81 ebt’s on the beeb’s list too and who knows how extensive that list was. ‘The Five’ at the end of the day majoity opinion let to a large degree the FTTT off the hook in the time honoured fashion of the accused, admit to some of the crime but not all of it. a scenario that appears to be sadly playing out in s. africa at present.
it would be brilliant in the ‘public interest’ to see it from officialdom exactly how many ebt’s and exactly how much £p was ‘tax evasion’ but clearly that is too much to ask.
had that joker ‘cam’ in the back of my cab once……. tried to convince him he coulda been retired from all that belisha polishin ages ago if gers had paid their employees taxes like everyone else….. but he would rather work till 90 if it meant his cheat fc could carry on cheatin the system…………..
I think to a certain extent Ally is a victim, the victim of being a bit of an incendiary dullard.
If you go back over the last year of Sun and daily record articles it may be more of a case of journalists only printing the the daft stuff that comes out of his mouth. Rather than all the intelligent stuff he was well known for in the tv show “A question of sport”
But the fact he is playing the victim constantly is very tiring but maybe more of a case of him playing up to the support viewpoint. I remember this time last year there were a lot of threads on rangers media of fans feeling like rape victims who were being charged with a lesser crime than the one they had suffered. Their words not mine…..
You can’t really blame the papers though for the dreck they are writing, print media is pretty much dying and they know well who their target audience is, and what they are capable of (Boycott). So are giving them the succulent lamb they enjoy. And they only print the truth when the story is too big to ignore or paper over the cracks. This always leaves journalists a few weeks behind the story or seven months in the case of Traynor.
And when bloggers are putting out the truth they are seen as creating a false positive of self fulfilling prophecy, that is rubbished at first then denied then unfairly blamed for creating whatever the story was in the first place.
And then the poor old newcos become enraged at all the wrong people for problems that aren’t even their fault or doing. But this allows the actual culprits to get away with the crime. And you can always tell who they are, when they are singled out by name they are the first to hide behind the crowd and shout “You cannot treat rangers this way” even when rangers haven’t been mentioned. They set themselves up as the new defenders and protectors of the fans because they know that the fans are just happy for someone to come out on their side and will therefore protect them by only seeing them as fellow victims who are being cruelly punished for standing up in defence of them.
You can say a lot of things about the fans but being disloyal isn’t one of them, when one is under attack they all close ranks in protection of them. Which is a good quality for people who really are victims, but sadly it is a terrible quality to have when it comes to having conmen and snake oil salesmen within their own ranks. Because to a certain extent it blinds them to who the real enemy is and allows the Sir Minty and Craig Whytes of the world to infiltrate them without anyone really taking a close look at the back story or what they are up to behind closed doors.
Playing the victim cannot be a healthy state of mind, it also creates paranoia and tension and an inability to tell fact from fiction. You have to ask yourself or at the very least think, “What has or is to be gained from creating this state of mind in a large body of people?” There are two main types of con, there is the long con and the short con, this is very much the short con mentality. Go in to a bad situation tell them what you plan to do and broach the reaction. If all does not go well reverse the narrative to suit the target demographic. Create tension and subterfuge throw up camoflage, in the style of a trustworthy face or two, and also a shut out specialist to guard the plan, even if the shut out guy has no idea what the plan is. It’s imperative to hire a sychophant for this with a big ego. tell massive porkies and the trick is to tell as many as possible not allowing the shill time to think.
Then punt the mark a monorail and do a bunk
“Playing the victim cannot be a healthy state of mind, it also creates paranoia and tension and an inability to tell fact from fiction”
Couldnt agree more. Been saying that for many, many years.
You were so busy saying it you blindly became it.
Im not a victim. I dont have paranoid ramblings claiming everyone is anti-rangers. Think you have mistaken me for many other people on here that post.
@Adam
I have to hand it to you Adam,despite being continually confronted
with incontrovertible truths,you remain in denial.
Where has this denial got you,or the team you support? Well you
know the answer to that one.
It is actually becoming quite pathetic,in the true sense of inspiring
pity.I do actually pity you Adam as you’re not a bad guy and you
clearly love your club,but all this victimhood,revenge and retribution
that EVERYONE connected to Rangers spouts on a daily basis is
now beginning to alienate even the last remnants of your defenders
in the press and everyone whose goodwill you will need on your
journey back to wherever it is that Chico has in mind on any
given day.
Please re read Joe’s excellent post above and reflect on the many
truths in it.People who had no strong feelings one way or another
towards Rangers,are now expressing disgust at the lack of remorse, continual victimhood and the idiocy of Charles Green.
Why don’t you consider starting a Gers for Change,or Gers for
Peace and Reconcilliation.You’re clearly not unintelligent, and I
assume you have like minded Rangers’ supporting friends who
want a successful future for your new club,surely this would be
more worthy of your time than continuing with the ostrich “head
in the sand” act.
I’m completely serious Adam,not being sarcastic at all ( I know,I
know,not like me ) I just thought you’re last post was really sad
in its delusion.
@everyone
Apologies for the above layout.I pad has a life of its own.
Def not like that when I typed it. 🙂
I agreed with Joes post. Where does that leave the nonsense above ? ??????
good comment.
Now that Ally has been presented for the Aunt Sally treatment,there will be a good few willing mucky sponge throwers lining up to have a pop at a great scorer,nice guy and True blue who, in the Gers darkest moments held the colours aloft and was left to repel all boarders on his own.
Ally may not prove to be the man to manage the Gers back to the top league in Scotland,he isn’t informed enough to comment accurately on many matters but his heart is in the right place and that most certainly will do for me.
Many folk with their own agenda, like to portray Ally as a rabble rouser who threatened the safety of panel members by asking questions that most Gers fans wanted an answer to.
If anyone is naive enough to suggest that the SFA’s handling of the Gers self inflicted crisis is/was beyond reproach,then maybe they can promote the notion that Mr Whyte was just an innocent,slightly goofy, train crasher.
The appropriate authorities will decide in time if Whytes,Ticketus dealings,club purchase,withholding of PAYE and NI,invoice creativity and accounting methods are within legal boundaries.
I would have preferred HMRC’s administrators had been appointed rather than Whytes,Duff and Phelps whose conduct has been questioned by Lord Hodge.
Ally would be the first to admit that he isn’t well versed in law,finance,shares flotations etc.
His contribution to the Gers and to Scottish sport is measured in his ability to bring the crowd to its feet in joy or misery.
Lets have all the jibes at his managerial efforts to date,lets question his signing policy,coaching technique and tactics.
His sometimes clumsy and easily dismantled efforts to defend his club can be used to ridicule him,but in doing so it asks more questions of the prosecution than it does of Ally.
If Whyte comes out of this with no stain on his professional reputation,then some may offer him a career as a driver of a better equipped train.
I wouldn’t buy an Arsenal share off him for a tenner.
I hear the Ibrox tea lady is quite verbose in her defence of Rangers,will she be up for forensic examination next?
Ally,if you happen to read this whilst looking for the “truth” regards Whyte,then here’s a big thanks for all you have done.
Keep smiling and don’t let them grind you down.
“Hopefully it’s a story that will be told one day because a lot of people deserve answers.” – The ruddy cheek award for understatement of the year; goes to….. Mr Ally McCoist.
Does Baw Jaws genuinely wish for the truth to out?
” Many folk with their own agenda, like to portray Ally as a rabble rouser who threatened the safety of panel members by asking questions that most Gers fans wanted an answer to.”
Typically devious statement, as you are well aware that Ally knew the identity of the panel members.
” Ally would be the first to admit that he isn’t well versed in law,finance,shares flotations etc.”
The Harry Redknapp defence. Hey guys, I’m half illiterate and suffer from advanced dyscalculia maybe even numlexia, so don’t ask me to accept any responsibility.
Such is his lack of knowledge about financial matters, he managed to wangle a nice wee pay rise for himself, by threatening to walk away, and bag himself a nice wee handful of free shares to boot! Aye, Sally knows his value in this all right.
@Cregganduff
Hear hear!
Ally McCoist.
Good player.
Thick as mince.
Lenny
average player
Thick as mince
but not as nice.
Lenny
Much nicer guy
More honest
More decent
Better Manager
Not buck stupid
Lenny and Ally – both nice guys
Both great players to have had in your team rather than against you.
Both would tell you they aint no masterminds……but does it really matter ?
The difference is that Lennon ain’t a fraud. What you see is what you get, for better or (often) worse. McCoist’s media persona is as manufactured as Gordon Smith’s hair…
He was knew the score, if all the rest of the football fans in Scotland were aware things were not going well in Govan, quite a while before the msm had to try to keep up with RTC and Phil’s warnings, then he and Watty were aware of what was what. Whether he personally could do anything about it ( or even understood the full implications) apart from clipe or bail out, I have no idea, but he knew that things were wrong and chose the darkside.
Will swally half his pay packet the same way they are trying to do to their keeper? I don`t think so. If you leave you`re a traitor. If you stay you`re on half wages. I can`t see many players becoming loyal sevconians. Victims on the scrounge.
Ally’s managerial incompetence is what severed the revenue stream that Whyte’s plan was based on. Demanding to know the names of a panel, when Rangers where already aware of every name, was nothing more than an incendiary device aimed at garnering support from the lowest life form within the ranks of Ranger’s followers. As soon as Rangers do recover to the top flight, Ally will be back cracking banal jokes on TV.
Frankly , I just find him out of his depth.
I fail to see what it was he was supposed to have done or said last year that is of any relevance.
All he ever used to say was either “I fear the worst” or “I can see light at the end of the tunnel”. Fans couldn’t of know if the club was coming or going listening to him.
He offered nothing to the debate at all of any relevance.
As for the team, they show no progression at all, and McCoist shows no signs of being able to improve them.
Maybe you can enlighten us as to why he is so eulogised over last year?
@Auldheid
There is nothing I would disagree with in what you say. However I wonder just how far the ‘circle’ extends beyond the boundaries of the actual institution – just how far the etablishment is tainted? There is no doubt that significant elements of the SMSM were and still are.
WE KNOW NOTHING
The Directors knew nothing. It wasn’t in their job remit to know anything or to ask questions. After all, they were only overseeing the affairs of Rangers. The msm knew nothing. It wasn’t their job either to actually know anything or to ask probing questions. After all, a journalist’s job is only to act as the eyes and ears of its readership and to give fair, accurate and unbiased opinions. The manager knew nothing. God forbid that he was forced to acquire knowledge of the club he was managing or to demand answers on the club’s financial status. The fans knew nothing and asked no questions. Why should they? It was only their club, after all. But we knew. We asked questions. Hell, we even served them the answers on a plate.
No, the retrospective questions and answers that they want are ones that rewrite history to blame a non-Rangers patsy: Whyte. What we are watching unfold is The Rangers propaganda machine in full swing to exonerate everyone but Whyte. What we are watching unfold is a whytewash. The alternative is a search for the unpalatable truth that the demise of Rangers was the result of a systemic failure of management and media, dating back to Murray’s reign and ending with Whyte’s exit.
It is not Rangers that were victims of a crime, but Scotland.
@JohnBhoy
They knew nothing ,saw nothing and were only following orders.
That sounds a wee bit familiar. 🙂
I see Mr Blue Knight himself Paul Murray in Friday’s DR trying to
apportion blame to the banks (again) for putting pressure on
DM to sell and also insinuating that the bank’s man on the board
Donald Muir’s part in it should be more carefully scrutinised.
Oh and while expressing his general disapproval of Chico,he
does say he’s got a lot right…..yes,you’ve guessed it JB,Chico’s
been spot on looking for “retribution” from the enemies of
Rangers.
Yes,this WAS the former finance director of oldco Rangers.
Was he off his work while all this was happening? Just asking.
When it comes to Sevco . . .the truth is a four letter word.
I’m trying to understand the mindset of someone who could do a search for that kind of material,post it and attribute it to Rangers.
You a Celtic fan by any chance?
I think the guy is josepe publico, you can make your own mind up as to who is shafting him?
i shall leave bestiality to beasts.
For lent?
Is that a poorly disguised Sevco BJK, paedo jibe?
If so that is bordering on CREEP territory.
Just to clarify; Cam’s comment appears to indicate that he partakes in ‘animal husbandry’ although he intends to discontinue such like. My comment was intended to denote for how long does he intend to give up his hobby. Any person or animal offended by these comments is purely coincidental.
Seems that someone else thought that wee Joe’s “taste” in video nasties was just a bit too much.
Hows your lost weekend going Ray? Anger management classes working for you ok?
Re video -Yea, from what I saw, it was a bit too much for anybody to take (by several inches).
My weekend is going very nicely, thanks for asking.
Anger management classes in my area are fully booked and have a waiting time for the foreseeable future. I would advise that you put your name on the waiting list. Come to think of it, you could be onto a winner there, lavender scented candles for the mad mob?
Aroma therapy with taser guns on stand by.
Cam. I see there is no rebuttal of my observation, The video was a bit of daft fun. Your comment was not funny
What was your observation?
Mama always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get
Maybe if sevconians would enter into free debate with the rest of Scotlands citizens ally would find the truth quicker. It seems the truth ally wants is the rangers version with no input from other informed sources. Thats propaganda ally.
Rab, that will never happen. The position they hold now, is contrary to so many of the games rules and regs, that there is not one line of argument they can sustain. If they believed there was, there would have been no hesitation from their ranks to take the opportunity to rip into Paul on the wireless. Chuckie missing some free publicity? Only if it involves his rulebook and total compliance. A true debate would see them kicked out of the 3rd. And the SFA would go with them.
But barcabuster, they could destroy your rational and logical thinking with their tried and tested all encompassing power phrase.
Weearrapeeepelll.
Triple word score at scrabble and everything.
The Lenny tear stained, wrestling dvd has landed on the desk of UEFA.
Instead of viewing it and giving a measured response they have employed the services of a ten year old to do a quck photoshop of Celtic fans F*CK UEFA banner and popped it in the post.
Your move Lenny.
Imagine it was The Rangers instead of Celtic in that game (or wish, dream, fantasise, whatever…). You’d have been OK with the defending then would you?
I have no problem with the result but despite the fact that no one will actually care, I believe it deserves to be highlighted.
Cam, Are you saying that blatant disregard for the rules of the game, should be ignored? Or are you saying “nothing to see here, move along” Perhaps you should forget about understanding anyone’s mind set, and start with your own.
Whenever CFC had a no frills defender,,,Bobo’s gonna get you!,,,wee Barry Robson cementing Christian Dailly,,its all well and good,a mans game.
The crafty Italians spotted CFC’s only danger and sorted it.Stop greetin and blindly following the pathetic mindset of the biggest rabble rouser in fitba.
Did Fergie send a dvd of Nakamura diving to get a free kick? what about Spartak losing out on a last 16 place due to the wonderful Greeks balance disorder?
Every single time his team get exposed for the mediocre lot that they are its the referees default position every time.
Utterly pathetic.
It would have been the easiest thing in the world for Celtic to turn this clash into a man’s game! However this is the CL. Contact of any sort is severely censured. This is to promote tech and ball skills over physicality. You further highlighted the difference over national level refereeing with the Robson/Dailey challenge, and the minimal contact required for the CL in the Nakamura example. In the Juve game we are not talking about somebody going to ground too easily. We are talking about instances that would see a penalty in a sunday pub league, where who gets the ba’ gets the shy.
I maybe wrong here and I am sure I wiil be corrected if this is not right, but didn’t the benificent Sir Davie also write off approximately £50 million debt they owed to MIH, in order to rid himself of the albatross that the Govan side had become. If my memory is correct then that skews the financial figures even more. But as I say I maybe wrong.
Fat Sally is what could be called ‘a bit o’ a sweetywife,’ with his ‘I shouldn’t be telling you this but….’ His tongue will get him into trouble one of these days. I wouldn’t tell him too many secrets, hahaha.
Paul,
A good summary – the story has been going for so long, with so many threads that I would have difficulty trying to explain it to someone. I think it was Einstein who said that if you can’t explain something to a seven year old then you don’t really understand it yourself.
As a supporter of a so called ‘diddy’ team I am particularly interested in the reliance of Rangers (and Celtic) on Euro income. In particular I recall a thread on RTC that alleged some strange dealings following Hearts cup win in ’98, a year in which Rangers won nothing. Hearts had assembled a well balanced competitive team that looked like it might pose a threat and perhaps challenge for a Champions League place for a year or two. Both Rangers and Hearts shared the same bank. Following Hearts defeat of Rangers in that cup final Hearts came under serious pressure from the bank. Rangers with much larger debts to the bank allegedly received no such pressure. The Hearts team was broken up with 3 of their cup winning team finding their way to Ibrox. Normal service was resumed.
Can someone please confirm if that is indeed the way these things work so that I can stop investing any more emotional energy in Scottish Football.
Didn’t the same bank that extended all that credit to oldco, knock back Celtic when they were having financial difficulties? But there again, then like now our problems were not in the same league, hahaha. Again I maybe wrong.
From memory, it was the Whites, Kellys and Grants they were knocking back, not Celtic per se.
In the long run they have done Celtic a favour, but the line of credit they gave to oldco when they knew MIH and Sir Davie were having difficulties was well beyond the amount they should have and well beyond the threshold they would have contemplated for any other club. In doing a favour for Sir Davie and oldco it turned they did them no favour at all. Funny how swings and roundabouts work?
LNS findings supposedly due on 28 February; I would hope to discover that previous ‘normal service’ has not only been interrupted but found to be utterly dishonest. Any other decision would be a total cop out. Sparks are guaranteed to fly whatever the outcome.
Horse3
I think you summed that up rather well. In 1998 we Jambos had a team, at last, that we felt could go on and make a difference but, as you say, lost our best players, for next to nothing, very quickly. Aided by the MSM, Rangers’ tap machine went into overdrive and those players Hearts were unwilling to sell directly to Rangers went by a circuitous route to Ibrox ie Weir to Everton (under Smith) then to Ibrox (to be reunited with Smith later). We did get £2m for Neil McCann, but, as you say, Bank of Scotland left Hearts with no choice other than to accept it, though it was announced that there was a clause in his contract saying he could go for that amount if he chose.
Ah yes, Scottish football really does need a strong Rangers!
@horse3,
CFC are not and have never been reliant on european funds received from cup runs (or not) and base their expenditure purely on the day to day operating income/expediture. The European or domestic cup income, if any, is surplus and will be set against 1. debt 2. youth/club development, 3. new players.
The bank I am sure you are referring to has been in MIH “pocket” for many a long year, you will find that all clubs are likely to hold bank accounts with all major banks but maintain and conduct most of their day to day banking through one specific operation. Its standard practise for most large companies and ensures that the customer has a good and commercial working relationship with the bank. This could be construed as influence and you never know where that would go.
Personally I am aware that HMFC have had histroric financial problems going back over 30 yrs, they have never really been on a sound financial foot in that time and really only been kept afloat by the assistance of decent bankers. More likely that the club were offered extended credit and the bank were seeking to recover the capital knowing full well that in the not too distant future they would be requested again to help with creditors.
Michael,
I am in no position to take issue with your point on CFC financial planning and accept what you say. Nor would I attempt to make a case that HMFC financial management has been anything other than inept.
My point however comes from my simple perspective that my club’s success will be based on the ability to assemble a half decent team. Not for a minute did I imagine that if any success threatened a regular European income stream for another club then powerful financial forces would shift slightly, aligning themselves with the other club until the annoying fly has been swatted. I think it is quite important to understand if that has been the case.
How did we get to the situation of Rangers being punted for a quid. “One Pound”….. to the devil Whyte?
Tore Andre Flo, the insane spending spree after being pumped by Kaunas.(interesting how Walters spending policy has never been examined in the run up to this farce) The abject failure to rear home grown talent. of even modest standard. The “obsession” with being “Simply The Best” fueled the madness of their fiscal policy, and the, ahem, loans.
Whyte’s bad luck other than being plum stoopid, was inheriting a rather useless manager who was out flanked by the giants of Moribor.
Yes Moonbeams & his boardroom in various incarnations catapulted Rangers towards the abyss, regardless of Jabbawocky & Chico Young spinning against this fact. Whyte was the fall guy!!!!
Moon faced Ally should look at the corpse they passed on to the Sfa, Spl to perform an autopsy on. The authorities are not everybody’s cup of coco, but they were given a rather stinking, unprecedented mess to sort out. The belief that the Peepel were & are Scottish football is what raised the hackles of the collective. The whinging. & disingenuous astonishment at the pleasure we are all taking at this poor clubs plight should inform Coisty that Rangers – Sevco, were & are the problem. The Growling Gorilla in the room.
“It’s not your ball” anymore, & it most certainly is all your own fault.
Don’t tell Cam there’s a Gorilla in the room, he’s fasting.
Rangers Then, Rangers Now, Rangers Forever…………the victim of crime.
Paul [and I’m assuming it was your good self that wrote the blog], as your employment is in the field of Law I’d assume you are aware of the crime, ‘forming a fraudulent scheme’ ?
That is what went on at Ibrox. A crime was commited.
Murray got rid of any possible liability. LBG got their money. Whyte gained control of a club he always fully intended in taking into receivership . Had that occurred everybody would’ve been a winner.
What stopped the masterplan was the FTTT delaying their verdict .
How a chancer like Whyte managed to end up with the keys to Ibrox is the main question the Crown Office want answered. I’ll say it again, Whyte, Withey and others will be going to jail.
Whyte just nailed down the coffin lid.
Whyte didn’t ‘nail down’ anything. Whyte wouldn’t have got near Rangers unless LBG, carrying Murrays debts, hadn’t been so afraid of their ‘expected’ exposure to another £20 million towards whatever debt from the EBT scheme which they knew fine well that Murray [they] couldn’t afford atop of Murrays wider business interests .
Rangers had a Board in place who were reducing the debt. Rangers, the club, debt wasn’t what mattered. Murrays exposure to furture debt was the important thing.
Rangers were doing just fine. The debt was coming down. O.K. they weren’t making anything, but things were managable as long as the FTTT result went their way.
LBG forcing Murrays hand [not through the Rangers debt, but because of the MIH debts] were what caused the tsunami at Ibrox.
Willy, Murray was trying to hawk Rangers for a few years prior to CW turning up. Nobody would touch it with a shitty stick. If CW never trundled over the horizon, Murray would have had no option, but to follow the same route that CW took. i.e. raise capital through whatever means he could to satisfy the toxic loan to LBG and cover running costs. There is no evidence that CW trousered any of the funds he raised, but channelled them into the club. This proved unsuccessful and admin followed. There is no reason to assume Murray would have fared better. In fact he was so glad to get shot, he gave it away to the first person prepared to take a punt on it. It was a punt CW took. It didn’t work!
Who’s saying that Whyte ‘trousered any of the funds’ ? Who’s saying that Murray ‘would have fared better’ ?
Are you not listening to what I’ve been saying ?
Murray had been trying for years to offload Rangers. He could shoulder the debt but saw that the groundswell within the support was growing for him to go.
When his property empire fell and LBG held all his debts the choice of who he sold to was gone.
We agree. Rangers were sold to the first conman who appeared on the horizon.
How that conman bought the club is the subject of the question I asked Paul earlier.
Whyte got the keys because he bought them fair and square. The fact that he turned up at the sinking of the titanic,, in a rowing boat with only a pair of water-wings was his only crime. Quite simply, he bought a pig in a poke.
He didn’t ‘buy them fair and square’. He was offloaded the Titanic while it was sinking.
Whyte wasn’t a lifeboat. He was the part of the iceberg they we see but Murray and LBG knew was waiting.
So you are saying it was Murray who “duped ” CW by selling him a ship that already had a big hole(a black one) in it, and was already sinking? This being the case, how can CW be considered to be part of the iceberg? As I said, CW bought the keys fair and square. He didn’t force Murray to sell. He bought a pig in a poke, a sinking ship, miles away from dry land, with no hope of rescue. Murray acted with the courage of the Italian captain of the recent cruise ship sinking(I forget the ship name). His arrogance drove him onto rocks, against the advice he was given. He then baled out to save his own skin.
Murray didn’t dupe anybody. Whyte knew fine well what he was doing.
As posted earlier, a scheme was formed whereby Murray dumped a possible toxic debt. LBG got their money and also rid themselves of exposure to Murrays debt in the event the FTTT result went wrong and Whyte ended up with the keys to a business he fully intended to allow to go to the wall, break up and sell later.
A fraud was committed.
All three parties are guilty and I look forward to seeing all three in the dock at a court case.
The Record appear to have woke up to the possibility too if their front page is anything to go by today.
@ww i hear what you are saying (post below) about fraud and you suggest that LBG contrived with SDM and CW. Thats stretching it and theres no proof of that. I do however believe that CW had a plan along the lines that you suggest and that was to make it unattractive to any potential buyer so that he could capitalise and write off all debt. CG however came along with his scheme and blew CW plan it out of the water. Maybe i will have chance to elaborate later ….. busy right now
‘Proof of funding’ is the key. A fraud was committed. Withey will be in the dock too.
Green didn’t arrive until later.
ww memory is saying whyte had a back-out clause if the ebt thing went against, if he didnt then he was duped,barca is correct , if gers were a going concern for a quid at original point of sale. d and p wouldnt have needed the swingeing salary cuts to end up still making a loss during administration. a historical first i understand. the ebt’s had nothing to do with this loss . indeed chico has picked up some of the debt d and p couldnt pay during admin.
The Craigster is feeling sweaty,the castle is up for hire,lets all do the bouncy!
If the purchase was a fraudulent act,then everything from that moment onwards is null and void,,,Gers awarded title,paid compensation and all bloggers marched to a gulag,,,have a nice day,,i will.
Rangers weren’t sold “for a quid”. Whyte had to pay LBG £18 million. He had a tax bill of £3 million to settle. He also had to carry out stadium repairs at £3 or 4 million. He accepted responsibility for any debt arising from the FTTT if it went against Rangers.
Had he refused any of those conditions he would not have been allowed to take over Rangers.
A pound has nothing to do with it and is false.
OK Willy, We seem to agree, that Murray would have “fared no better”, in his attempts to keep Rangers afloat, We also seem to agree, that the funds raised by CW were for the purpose of Rangers. So let’s run with your theory, that Murray, CW, & LBG, have concocted a plan to dump the toxic debt. Why would LBG need to do this? They were effectively running the club, and could have sold any assets they wished to suit their ends, (players,property, etc) The BTC, WTC, and creditors are not their concern. Murray could have done the same, but would still be liable to BTC, WTC, and creditors. He would need to find a way to settle these debts, with a team that couldn’t kick a ba’, and an empty stadium. An impossible situ. Are we on the same hymn sheet here? That leaves CW’s position. A man well versed in taking companies to CVA. Apart from trying to buy tlme, re paye & ni, why does he have to be involved in a fraud? Breaking companies is his specialist subject. Yes, if he had a successful CVA, he was owner of a shiny, debt free club with reduced, but not impossible resources. An unsuccessl CVA, saw him lose nowt, but possibly still gain on his $1 investment. So LBG, had nothing to gain by committing a fraud(bar a crim record. The same applies with CW. That only leaves Murray as a perpetrator. In the sale process, I can’t see how any charges could be brought, or even what charges would be applicable. He would certainly though be guilty of balking out and leaving Rangers to their fate. Considering he had all the facts and data at his dispposal. It may have been a fate he was aware of. Is that what you are saying?
Whyte didn’t have a ‘back out clause’. He accepted the FTTT result and agreed to pay the bill if the outcome went against Rangers.
There was a clause that could possibly return the club to Murray if Whyte didn’t carry out stadium repairs or attempted to sell assets [players or the stadium ] within the first year.
Thats the man in the streets view Willy and its revealing how the Whyte cherry pickers come along to alternately ridicule or defend him.
I would imagine someone as devious as Whyte would surround himself with legal pals to keep him just onside but hopefully they were as competent and reliable as Whyte is when giving evidence in a court room.
Cam, Mick posted 2 links yesterday to Tommy Gold and his conversation with ticketus representative. I suggest you give it a wee listen. As for wee Craigy surrounding himself with legal minds to keep onside, Remind me again how close to the wind Murray was sailing with his tax schemes. Not on the advice of legal “friends” but on the advice of a porno movie maker.
In your reality SDM is guilty,,,nothing can change your mindset,not a legally binding tribunal ,its appeal or or decision in a Supreme court.
The truth is an irrelevance to your propaganda and Tommy Gold,whatever or whoever the hell that is, is the result of mick overdosing on toxic waffle spouted by obsessed loon tunes.
cam does this help forget the dos scheme and the pre- admitted ebt’s.from memory the fttt tribunal looked at 100 + ebt’s.
think of these as 100+ individual charges of pashing against belisha beacons in larkhall.
the jury returns and advises after reviewing the cctv evidence we find five cases where we can definately identify the sevconian in the stand as the pasher.
fin.
Cam, Murray never sold Rangers for a quid. He sold its debt! Who do you think racked up that massive overspend?
Barca, there are a couple of points re your last post. Murray ? A singularly arrogant man who didn’t want to see his ‘legacy’ go down the tubes. Yes, Murray [or LBG pulling his strings] could’ve sold off the squad and recouped some money. But that would’ve left Murray looking bad and that’s something he didn’t want. There are still some Rangers fans who actually believe that Murray renovated Ibrox and brought in Souness.
Murray didn’t want his ‘history’ spoiled.
Nobody knew how the FTTT would turn out. With Murray owning Rangers the debt belonged to MIH [him] propped up by LBG. They were the ones who would take the hit. When Whyte got the club he absolved MIH [Murray] and LBG of that responsibility.
They looked at Ellis but it was patently obvious that he didn’t have the ‘background’ to sell to the fans. Ellis brought Whyte, a man of mystery with rumours of untold wealth – nobody could argue against that because he’d been hiding out of the country for years.
Whyte ‘surrounded himself’ with Withey. A man it would appear with about as much sense [and scruples] as Whyte did because he’ll be facing charges too.
As to criminal charges, I’ll repeat, a fraud was carried out. A fraud against Rangers share and bondholders at the very least.
btw – not every Rangers fan bought into Murray, Ellis or Whyte. Certainly I didn’t.
I see what you are getting at Willy. I don’t see conspiracy to defraud though. I accept that you would like to see charges brought and punishments served.(you are not alone there). LBG could recover their loss through legal means, CW was in a win win situ, and only Murray stood, if not to benefit, at least not to lose! He did not need the co-operation of LBG nor CW, to achieve this.
Barca, I’m not saying that Murray, LBG and Whyte sat around a table working out how they could carry out a crime. What I’m advancing is that LBG were pushing Murray to get rid of Rangers before the FTTT result came in.
Whyte, encouraged by Ellis made his move. Any paperwork he used to support his bid was in part fraudulent. But not really the subject of any deep scrutiny anyway.
Everyone ended up winning.
Unfortunately for Whyte the BTC result got delayed.
agree ww, withey, collier bristow, d and p AND ellis and whyte and lbg and sdm have a lot to answer to . the angle we are all coming from is behind all this rangers were not trading profitably and the armageddon season had arrived.
@ww you are correct regarding the ‘proof of funding’ but the ‘alleged’ conspirator here would be the solicitor firm CB.
I would argue that the £18m LBG debt was small fry to the overall Murray Group debt of allegidly £700m (so says Lord Hodge), but LBG could not allow the deck of cards to start falling and so pressurised MIH into the sale to CW as assured clearance of the £18m debt and ensure MIH do not fold.The ‘proof of funding’ was critical here.
Back to my point earlier in this thread (this morning) ……. and it is best summed up by an article written by WEB3DLAW way back in May last year …….
The important point in this article is ….. That It Is Perfectly LEGAL !!
And explains why i think CG scuppered what looked like a dodgy …. but legal schema …..
Pasted here for clarity ….
I want to be clear this is me hypothesising. However, it is very suspicious to me that a company that was sold a year ago for £18,000,001.00 has been sold again in less than a year for £2.00. It is worth knowing if the Ticketus deal was a double poison pill– not only did it fund the purchase of the club, but it effectively ensured that “the target company takes on large debts in an effort to make the debt load too high to be attractive. It would be so unattractive that no acquirer would want to pay the debts.”
Here is a classic anti-shark repellent move! This strategy also assumes that the club pays their debts in the long-run. However, under today’s company laws, in particular the Enterprise Act, struggling businesses can continue in new forms as government would rather see businesses keeping jobs going at the expense of toxic debt – which keeps far less in employment.
A plan to shed my business debts in a morally ambiguous, but legal way might look like this:
Run up massive debts and get served with massive bill from more creditors including, hopefully HMRC! Be unable to service those debts. Limit the ways the company can gain access to working capital. Then bankrupt your own business by putting it into administration. Make the company unattractive to legitimate parties of interest by taking on massive amounts of debt. Hire the same people who advised you on this strategy to run the company during the administration process. Offer to sell to a buyer (outside of the circle) to make the whole thing seem legitimate, but as soon as he sees the financial picture, he walks and walks away. Make it as unattractive as possible to any other potential buyers by having an element of your customer base threaten any potential buyers, but at the same time pay for the Old Guard (fine gentleman like Sandy Jardine, Andy Kerr and Mark Dingwall) to wax lyrical about how great Rangers is to anyone eager to lap it up.
Forego your debts to the tax man other legitimate creditors and form a “newco”… Get a slap on your wrist from the regulatory organizations. Cancel all of your debts. Buy your partners in consortium out. Return to the glory days of the past.
Smell a rat now?
[End of Paste]
Sooooo …….. sound … almost …. familiar ?
Newtz,you’re a clever guy and well defo clued up on this,,,,but!,,,fire extinguishers are for putting out fires!,,,not sniffing.
newtz…… u can here scott joplin tinkling away in the background…… care to link ….. gondorff……hooker…….lonnegan and snyder…….. its a serious post
Link to article: Web3DLaw
Rangers in Crisis: The Hunt for Whyte October and a Pretty “Poison Pill” Woman
http://web3dlaw.wordpress.com/tag/rangers/
The problem with that scenario is, for once Whyte told the truth, he stood guarantor for the Ticketus money. I suspect he got away with it via Withey [not Collyer Bristow who are innocent in this whole affair]. Ticketus later sought to take the debt to Rangers but were shot down in court because Scots and English laws give different views when it comes to responsibility and culpability.
As to LBG’s exposure to MIH’s debts, I’ve already covered that [ ‘admitted’ that]. In the whole sphere of things £18 million is nothing compared to £700 million or whatever. But £18 million is still £18 million.
” Forego your debts to the tax man other legitimate creditors ” ? I and the rest of the Rangers fans didn’t forego our debt to anybody. As a bondholder and shareholder I lost out too.
The rats at the top who would’ve denied me entry to a match if I was 50p short of the cost of a ticket were the ones who dumped their debts or carried out the crime.
@cam LOL ….. at last …. a reposte from cam … 🙂
Rabbie,,,,,you’re gonna need a bigger boat!
thanx for the link newtz…… interesting…….. the key for me is that we only appear to know a few of charlies ‘investors’ by individual name…….. the fact craigie boy needed to tape stuff !!!!!!!………loads to go yet…….. yet again gers fans caught as pawns in ‘big business’ as ww so ably demonstrates……. its a movie for sure….. the sting…..pretty woman…..octopussy……the mark is defo rfc ….. this playing in div 3 is a big problem tho……. why is nobody getting stuck into d and p…… its endless…. the heat going on cw may reveal more……. who r blue pitch,margharita etc….
Willy 6.03. I totally agree, Murray was under pressure to sell, And Cw saw a chance to cash in, or become a football “mogul”. From his point of view, any outcome, CVA, liquidation, or a middling to bottom SPL club ownership, would bring a return. It really brings us back full circle. In your post at 10.36. You say that you as a bond/shareholder lost out. I will take your word of honour on that, and also add that so did every Rangers fan, whether a regular or occasional attendee. As well as the creditors, who lost to varying degrees(paradoxically those owed least, probably felt more pain). I would extend the list of losers to include everybody who has passed through a turnstyle in any colours I have no idea how the LNS, UTT, verdicts will go, nor the outcome from BDO or the ongoing police investigations into directors, Ned,s, or Whyte, ticketus etc. I think it would be fair to say, if everything swings in Rangers favour, it will be because of an obscure legal point, “missing evidence, obstruction, or whatever. A not proven at best! Every Scottish fitba’ fan has been saying to themselves, ” FFS! Were they daein that tae!” I have enjoyed this wee chat, you seem like a decent bloke. I think there are times when you have probably said, ” FFS! Were we daein that tae”.
Obviously some newcomers who haven’t read my previous posts. Don’t you have a sense of humour or are you all rrabid bears?
Lol Bill,its actually Celtic rabies sufferers who gave you TD’s! The haters saw the Rangers now line and their auto pilot hate mode clicked in.
How embarassed do you feel now Billy Boy?
Didn’t anyone see the irony in this post? OMG you must all have been out on the booze before you read it.
It’s a bit off-topic, but can someone explain what would have happened if Whyte DID pay the tax and Rangers went into administration mid-season?
Would have this been worse for Rangers, the SPL and everyone else in Scottish football, or would it not have changed anything in the short or long term?
The team would have walked away.
Still bleating the same auld crap, victims this, conspiracy that, how can it possibly be that theres so many intellectualy challenged people in Scotland(GOVAN) theres hundreds of sites, blogs, even a fekin book explaining how and why they liquidated and died, i know they dont do walking away, but they should start doing reading facts. Stupid stupid zombies.. hail hail, GOD BLESS THE CELTIC+
Jesus Christ, a hoopy accusing others of ‘victims and conspiracy.’
Lol.
Maybe it’s something to do with where we come from or our religion.
Lol.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/378049/Rangers-keeper-can-t-deal-with-wage-cut
cash rich with money in the bank lol
o and last week we had a WUO lol
getting back on topic every1 at board level even down to the ballboy knew they were in trouble just like they know sevco are in trouble just now as we speak and type oldco should have been left to die this cloned version was doomed from the start and is running at a loss green used loop holes for the ipo boardering on the edge of the rules and is lieing about the amounts its all doomed to fail due to heads in the sand and a compliant media not asking the right questions which has left the team sevco from sevconia doomed while the sevcoians bury there heads even deeper in the sand it really is a zombiefied group no doubts about it meerp meep
O for got to add just noticed market capitalisation is down 8mil 54 to 46 in the space of 5 weeks so there’s a other bad sign
Did OG tell you that or some other obsessed loon ball?
Aye, Cammy Bell, don’t imagine for a second you’ll still be playing for The Rangers should they survive long enough to make it back to the top.
Such ambition.
Alexander finding out that’s all the thanks you get from Charlie and the investors for tuping over to the tribute act.
£1million and I’ll stay for another two years.
There’s loyalty for you?
Campbell Ogilvie………other than clandestine brotherhood, can anybody explain how he can justify his continued position at the SFA?
Regardless of the LNS outcome, Ogilvie is complicit to the lodge of papers between the main parties involved at Ibrox and Hampden while being employed by each camp separately over the period involved.
Whether the ‘side letters’ issue is illegal, or not, it is hardly relevant, underhand practice was being ignored. The cover up by rangers in relation to the side letters would demonstrate of their knowledge of its illicit nature.
Untenable?
Ogilvie’s fingers should be prised from his office door. Is that not what every other SCOTTISH FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION club fans really believe?
I’ll get my pitchfork (is there another option Paul?)
The Rising,
“How the fans stopped the club from dying”.
there was me thinking it was a Yorkshireman,that ran around Asia getting introductions to his own friends by third parties agents,agents that would later bill against the newco ,after the Yorkshireman raised capital from his friends to purchase the Assets of the deadco after the CVA bit the dust
Traynor on Whyte
“We were all taken in with the spin put on it”
Jabba blatantly ignores the fact that it was him that spun it that Whyte was a billionaire
Traynor and Paul Murray both question why HMRC let Whyte get away with not paying the tax for up to 7 months, Traynor claims that the SFA and HMRC should have acted quicker,
What would have happened if the SFA/HMRC had of acted in September /October,
At the end of the season I think it will be a good time for Ally to move on. Perhaps a position ‘upstairs’ awaits or a position presenting Rangers TV where he can use his talent for smiling to best effect.
With the third division won Ally will have proved (if proof were needed) that full time professional football players can, over the long run, defeat painters and posties and claim the coveted prize.
In the final home game Ally can take a bow as the applause sweeps down from the Iborx stands, and who is more deserving of such a massive dose of the clap than the cheeky chappie himself.
Television adds at least half a stone-some of which sweet Sally can do without.
Ally has piled on the pounds since retiring from playing,Lennon managed to shuffle his bulk around the park between saliva exchanges.
Whats your point?
@Coyote Briggs
Oooh you are bitchy,but I like you 🙂
Just re-read Sally’s words of no commentary reminding me of the song….
“So you like to think your s*>t don’t stink……..”
Sally, roses really smell like pooh ooh ohh!
Is a gangster’s moll who has lived high on the hog for years on the ill gotten gains a victim when he goes to jail and plod seize the house and car?
Discuss.
Maybe the EBT loans are in lieu of crime victim compen.?
Cam. In simplest terms, you are an annoying little t*t.
Good, i have annoyed you,mission complete.
GIVE ALLY A BREAK,HE IS NOT THE SHARPEST KNIFE IN THE IBROX?
ally mc coist, there’s a real gent, he wanted people strung up by the short ‘n’ curlys, he is a scab nothing more
Pathetic bilious little “blog” continuing your obsessional & childish passion for hatred of another football club. Frankly embarrasing but expected from a bigot.
Perchance turn your seething hatred into words in a review of your own clubs well documented failings? Or indeed your current manager whose record to date has been less than glorious…
Neil Lennon has been involved in 12 cup competitions as manager. And currently has precisely one win.
But your own club doesn’t really interest you goes it? You need an outlet for your poisonous sectarian character traits & Rangers satisfy that for you.
Sad. Just sad.
Paul, I thought Craig Whyte cleared the £27m debt by borrowing money from Ticketus against future season ticket sales?
Results on the park,Malmo Champions League , Maribor Europa League , Falkirk League cup,Dundee Utd Scottish Cup , was the main reason they went bust,but Ally came out smelling of roses amongst the deluded.