The Rangers Ban on the BBC – NUJ Code of Conduct and SFL Rule 71.4.1

Two weeks ago we saw the reaction of Rangers to the publication of the “Rangers masterplan”. The reaction might be seen by some as rather extreme.

The day after the publication, the BBC had sent its journalists along to Ibrox for the Third Division title-winning celebration.

Amongst the BBC staff on site at Ibrox were Chris McLaughlin and Chick Young.

As the day progressed, the BBC reported that Mr McLaughlin had been told to leave and that Mr Young too had been removed, although he was told that he could stay to watch the game but could not broadcast from the ground.

One might wonder why they were allowed in to the ground, except of course that barring the BBC from the ground pre-emptively might not have been as attractive to the customers as turfing them back out.

On one view, as it is a private place, Rangers can decide who comes in and out of its premises. But there are contractual issues which mean that access ought to be granted, as I will discuss below.

Rangers did make a statement explaining their action.

RANGERS Football Club can confirm the BBC is no longer welcome at Ibrox Stadium or Murray Park.

The club asked BBC journalists to leave the stadium ahead of today’s Division Three title party against Berwick Rangers.

Rangers Director of Communications James Traynor said: “We are aware of our contractual obligations but we also have to be aware of our duty to protect the players, manager and supporters against reporting which lacks logic, balance and fairness.”

It is an interesting attack – that the reporting lacks logic, balance and fairness – every other report on Rangers clearly has those three qualities!

Bizarrely the final straw seemed to have been the coverage given by the rest of the press to the leaked strategy document. The BBC report did not suggest that it envisaged the sacking of Mr McCoist. Other media outlets covered the story by saying that the sacking of Mr McCoist was an intended outcome of the plan. So the BBC was punished for revealing a document which was not alleged to be anything other than genuine. The BBC mentioned it was a plan by a major investor. The BBC said it did NOT spell the end of Mr McCoist.

One wonders what was wrong with the report, apart from the BBC having had the temerity to write something about Rangers with which those in charge (or at least a faction in charge) at Ibrox did not agree!

One might also note that barring the BBC from contact with Rangers has not stopped the BBC reporting the Ibrox story. In fact it guarantees that the Rangers side of the story does not get across clearly to the BBC.

If Rangers are unhappy with the coverage then surely the way to deal with this is by making formal complaints, as it has done, and potentially taking court action, if it feels that there are grounds for doing so.

Other people have already referred to comments by Mr Traynor, when he was on the Daily Record, condemning the practice of “banning” journalists.

He is of course now Director of Communications at Ibrox. He may still be a member of the NUJ.

The NUJ Code of Conduct can be read here.

It starts and goes on in paragraph 1 to say:

Members of the National Union of Journalists are expected to abide by the following professional principles

1 At all times upholds and defends the principle of media freedom, the right of freedom of expression and the right of the public to be informed.

I accept that it is different working as a Director of Communications rather than directly as a journalist. However does Mr Traynor no longer consider himself to be a journalist?

Barring the BBC seems somehow not to be in accordance with the principles of media freedom, freedom of expression and right of the public to be informed.

Clearly a problem which comes from having a poacher turn gamekeeper!

If however the plan was to do something to make fans feel happy, then banning the BBC at least managed to satisfy the Rangers fans online.

What about the contractual issues which Mr Traynor acknowledges?

The SFL Rules state:-

Members shall:-

71.4.1 take all reasonable steps to assist in securing compliance by the League with its obligations to third parties in implementing the terms of such contracts and in particular shall, without prejudice to the foregoing generality, make available appropriate facilities for the transmission or recording by any means of matches under the auspices of the League and shall be deemed to licence the use by the League of all such transmissions, recordings, publications or official photographs and of any copyrights of Members required by the League in connection with such transmissions, recordings, publications or official photographs;

That rule seems to suggest that a deliberate decision to bar a broadcaster who has contractual relationships with the SFL allowing it rights to broadcast coverage of the SFL would be a disciplinary offence.

However I am unaware of any action being taken by the SFL, or indeed of any words at all from the league about this. It sounds as if the SFL simply want to pass on over the issues and to hope that nothing pops up about it again.

The BBC could take action itself, on the basis that this behaviour by Rangers breaches the BBC/SFL contract. The BBC has been outspoken in the past about organisations or people who refuse to speak to it despite having a contractual obligation to do so. It does seem though that the BBC too, having made an issue of the matter on the day of the ban, has decided to let it lie, or at least to do things behind the scenes.

Some accuse Rangers of arrogance, exemplified by the slogan “We are the People”. Frankly its passage through SFL3 with demands for apologies from all and sundry (apparently a new World Record) seems to show that the mindset of supremacy remains (and my reference to supremacy is NOT to anything other than the thought that it is the best football team in the land – I will leave sociological implications of that word to those more knowledgeable).

Anyone want a bet on how soon the ban will be quietly dropped, and BBC reporters will once again be allowed access to Ibrox?

Posted by Paul McConville

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316 Comments

Filed under BBC, Rangers

316 responses to “The Rangers Ban on the BBC – NUJ Code of Conduct and SFL Rule 71.4.1

  1. ecojon

    @Paul

    I’m not sure that Traynor is still a member of the NUJ and Rangers might want to drop the ban quietly but I doubt if they will manage to achieve that not unless they hire a skilled PR professional.

    Old hacks set in their own personal belief in supremacy over the rest of the rat-pack is no guarantee of success in the PR field as many ex-journos, who could no longer hack it, have found to their cost and deeply dented supremacy shield.

  2. “Supremacy” sounds like the master race , now I wonder which team are known as the Huns?
    Spent far too much time reading CF this week , better get on with some jobs.

  3. Bryce9a

    Disappointing stuff Paul. Their reporting has been biased and honest. Until november last year the BBC were not even recognising the continuation of Rangers, as you yourself acknowledge – miles behind the STV. Added to this the refusal to publicly apologise for the McCoist death/suicide animation, i think those comprise adequate grounds to treat any further discretion as a last straw. Re. this particular point, my impression was that the bbc failed to indicate the fact that this was not an official Rangers plan, but the vision of one particular director. The “supremacist” stuff sounds like somewhat spiteful rhetoric i thought you sought to rise above. Stick to facts and objective analysis Paul.

    • Bryce9a
      May 19, 2013 at 10:16 am

      Disappointing stuff Paul. Their reporting has been biased and honest.

      Biased AND honest? That’s a bit of a knicker twister!
      ========================================

      Until november last year the BBC were not even recognising the continuation of Rangers…

      There is no continuation of Rangers.
      Rangers are dead.
      A Tribute Act team has taken their place and is making a real arse of things aided and abetted by the coaching staff led by former legend and superstar Ally McCoist.
      It is believed they will crash and burn for the same reasons as the team formerly known as Rangers.

      ==================================================

      The “supremacist” stuff sounds like somewhat spiteful rhetoric…

      Spiteful?
      That’s the standard claim of Huns fans when faced with facts they find difficult refute.

      ==================================================

      Stick to facts and objective analysis Paul.

      Sickening, fascist, supremist chants at Ibrox ARE facts.
      =================================================

      DimDumbHun

  4. Bryce9a

    Sorry,change that to *dishonest!

  5. Monti

    Morning Paul, the the rangers don’t like people telling the truth about them, they like to perpetuate the Myth that they are dignity personified, yet for over a CENTURY the very same cardigan wearing, brown brogue wearing club DISCRIMINATED against CATHOLICS & particularly IRISH CATHOLICS, now that’s not dignified is it?
    the the rangers like people to see them as pro British Army, yet deliberately refused to pay TAX & PAYE that goes towards many things including vital EQUIPMENT that is needed by servicemen & women on the front line in Afghanistan & Iraq,
    There was NOTHING dignified about Rangers & there is nothing dignified about Sevco.
    Their old clubs blatant cheating, lying & tax avoiding/evading is the biggest scandal in British football history!
    Note the BBC couldn’t get away from Ibrox during Minty’s moonbeam years, there seemed to be a weekly interview during the 90’s with Murray & Chic young, getting the Moonbeams out! Scottish football for many years has been corrupt, I believe this continues now. The demise of Rangers is only a small step in the right direction in terms of cleansing the game. If Green & Whyte have been working in unison, the the Rangers or Sevco should NEVER be allowed to play another match in Scotland! I pray this is the case! SPORTING INTEGRITY IS PARAMOUNT! GOODBYE RANGERS, IT WASN’T NICE KNOWING YOU! HH!

    • Monti

      On the BBC, I remember a BBC reporter Forbes Mcfall I think his name was,asking St. Martin O’Neill during his time as Celtic manager “what he ( O’Neill ) was going to do about sectarianism” now I’m sure Martin’s job was to concentrate on winning football matches? At the same time O’Neill was asked this question, Rangers were promoting an ORANGE away top?????…I can’t recall the Rangers manager at that time being asked the same question……strange that!

      • Monti I remember the interview your talking about & O Neill’s irritation at having this dumped on him. For me, that was in a round about fashion, a… “the famines over, why don’t you go home”… moment. I detected hostility in the question, & further hostility in the dissection of O Neills rejection of the question.
        What we ended up with was the Union Fleg being erected on his front lawn.
        A Firey Cross anyone????

    • OldFirm 1

      Monti. I have read several of your posts and I share many of your Celtic-minded polemics. However I cannot foresee any situation where TRIFC’s associate license is rescinded. The SFA want the new club to thrive and are willing to give legs to the lie that this club has a 140 years history. The SFA have bent over backwards to assist the new club. A point in case is their assertion to LNS that RFC’s use of EBT’s did not confer an advantage to them. Any organisation that can unashamedly perpetrate a lie that defies logic have nailed their colours to the mast.

      I believe Charles Green’s Sevco Scotland purchased the RFC assets directly from Duff & Phelps. The Pinsent Masons report will confirm this. Duff & Phelps can easily state that once they had identified CG as the leader of their preferred procurement team, the company vehicle that he used to faciltate the transaction is not important. Furthermore, D&P can state that the presence of an individual, banned from taking any office in Scottish football, in Sevco 5088, rendered their bid in breach.

      CG, as he admitted, stitched up CW like a kipper. There is only one scenario where the sale and subsequent IPO might be questionable. If CG used the 5088 vehicle to purchase the assets and then transferred them to Sevco Scotland, the end game will be disastrous for Green and as TRIPC’s largest shareholder, disastrous for the start-up.

      Even in this possible scenario, there is a caveat. CW is alleged to have paid funds to the mother of a fellow investor in 5088. Apparently that cheque either bounced or was returned. CG can state that CW had no status in 5088.

      Pinsent Masons won’t touch this as it relates to a situation that is subjudice. By the time that CW takes his case to the high court, CG will have sold his shares to Easdale and his $30m will be safely ensconced in a Cayman Island trust fund.

      if CW’ case is proved, then Easdale and institutional investors would have been defrauded and CG would be charged and found guilty in absentia.TRIFC would collapse.

      CG would care not one jot as he looked out on the bahia from his Rio penthouse and looked forward to spending his latest interest rate payment on his $30M capital,

      • Raymilland

        @Niall Walker

        The Merchant Legal letter;

        “Note that junior counsel (James Evans) had some concerns that the nature of the agreement between Craig Whyte and Ahmad and Green (which was to withhold from the administrators the identity of the principal behind the transaction) may cause some issues with regards to pleading the cases on behalf of Craig Whyte and Aidan Earley (as opposed to the Sevco 5088 claims), but senior counsel did not share the same concerns, or at least not to the same degree and felt that they should not prove an obstacle to pursuing the claims successfully. We are also of this view.”

        The above comment would reveal alternative motive for the proposed action against Charles Green. It would appear that Whyte did knowingly enter into a covert arrangement (that may well be unlawful).

        Any settlement of the above would be an unlikely bonus.

        I would not envisage any financial reparation directly from the intended action against Green; however, the information that is now made public would impact upon the legality of the asset sale. The best outcome for Whyte is for BDO to review the fresh evidence of the sale and to declare that transaction void.

        The big question is whether or not BDO will act within a timeframe that would suit Craig Whyte.

      • ecojon

        @Old Firm 1

        You mention: ‘Even in this possible scenario, there is a caveat. CW is alleged to have paid funds to the mother of a fellow investor in 5088. Apparently that cheque either bounced or was returned. CG can state that CW had no status in 5088’.

        The first cheque bounced from memory but a second payment was made successfully within days and certainly was still sitting in the mum’s account a couple of weeks ago having never been returned.

        • OldFirm 1

          It will be difficult for CW to show a forensically indisputable accounting link to Sevco 5088. He has hired some corner shop firm in Malden to cause mischief in the hope of a payoff. The film rights nonsense will add value to his gagging order/non disclosure agreement. Proper legal recourse will cost a minimum of 2,000 hours of preparatory solicitor fees at £600 per hour and up to six months of QC fees (120 at £3,500 which is £420,000). £1,620,000 is a conservative effort. Octopus will try apply for a prohibition order on his properties and I can see him losing these in time. So where will he find the funds to fight this. He won’t. He is just causing mischief to hope for a pay off. Charlotte Fakeovers is CW.

      • Niall Walker

        I don’t understand where the $30 million comes into it.

        • maes

          ??? $30mil = £20m , £22m – £2m (admin fees) = £20

          please keep up – this is simple maths….

          • Niall Walker

            maes,

            If it is simple then you will have no difficulty in explaining to me how CG can possibly be entitled to $30 million, and you may need to put down your abacus to do this.

        • OldFirm 1

          At current values, his shares are worth £2.8M. His salary and pay off nets him another £1.2M which takes him to £4M. There is only £8M left of £23M IPO. After paying off investors, he and his fellow director MIGHT have taken investor introduction fees of £1M+. So if he is worth £25M as has been alleged in MSM his net worth is £30M.

        • Niall Walker
          May 19, 2013 at 4:46 pm

          I don’t understand where the $30 million comes into it.
          =========================================

          Don’t you strain your brain cell Niall.

      • Do you write this after a kip? Wake up and jot down you dreams?

    • Ed Paisley

      Oh God I remember our weekly Friday night serving of Murray Moonbeams with wee Chic salivating.

  6. portpower

    Was it because they were league champions instead of 3rd division league champions. Another honest misprint? Did`nt matter if the BBC were there or not. We all had the misfortune of seeing Longmuir aroused with the 4th tier trophy.

    • Monti

      Agreed port, How could anybody celebrate that, it’s embarrassing & with the the rangers having an unfair advantage due to their wage bill, surely that title, their first ever…is tainted?.. They were playing against, plumbers & joiners ha. Oh dear…

    • OldFirm 1

      Some might argue that they are incapable of winning anything without cheating, Many of the titles won by a club that formerly played at the ShysterDome were tainted by EBT, Tax Evasion and an aversion to paying debts. They were also tainted by referee and SFA collusion. The new club, Spivco, will follow a similar course.

  7. I think we all know that Mr T has more faces than a station clock judging by his (alleged) underhand dealings with the bold Mr Whyte whilst trying to secure a job at RIFC.

    And reading a line on the CQN blog….. ” I also hear the national broadcaster rejected a former presenter’s request to return to the fold.” I’m wondering if he is still at it….

    • ecojon

      @ Jono

      Poor man – all he’s trying to do is return from his under-cover mission – could JT be Charlotte 🙂

  8. Monti

    @paulmcConville, morning Paul, I note you perceive ” we are the people” as a reference to them being the biggest/ best team? I take it your tongue is in your cheek Paul?
    If not can I give you my opinion on what ” we are the people” means?
    For me it means Scottish protestants who they feel are socially superior to Scottish Catholics & especially Irish Catholics, for me it isn’t a Rangers (IL) thing or a football thing, it’s a misplaced Protestant thing, a Scottish Protestant discriminatory thing. I am so glad I am not one of ‘ the peepel’ HH!

    • OldFirm 1

      I concur, I would not wish to be one of an underclass that evade tax and prefer their suppliers to go to the wall rather than pay them as agreed. They are a tainted people. They are not so arrogant now Monti!

      • The Rangers fan agree, and hopefully the guilty Whyte “tims current hero” is jailed for it, and we saw last year Lennon paid a high price for trying it

        • Monti

          What the fu@k are you on about DEMON? GO away & wash your mouth….

        • Glesga Wan your post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever???????

        • GlesgA1
          May 19, 2013 at 1:01 pm

          The Rangers fan agree, and …hopefully the guilty Whyte “tims current hero” is jailed for it…
          ==================================================

          Aye!…Rangers are innocent.

          It was Whyte.

          It was Green.

          It was Murray.

          It was the company which held the rights to manage the club badly.

          It wasn’t Rangers.

          It was everybody else.

          The fans have suffered enough.

          If we’re allowed back into the SPL we promise to clean up Manchester.

          HELP!

          • Considering you follow the only club in the country to have it’s ground padlocked and team banned from playing within the city limits of Glasgow for rioting,you have a bit of a cheek. While Manchester saw 25 arrests, a third of the number of celtic fans thrown out of Dundee for doing a Boddy Sands and covering themselves and Dundee in their own waste.

            • OldFirm 1

              This is an evil slur. I may have to consult learned counsel Rosencratcz & Grabbitt as your posts have no basis in fact.

            • GlesgA1
              May 20, 2013 at 11:03 am

              While Manchester saw 25 arrests, a third of the number of celtic fans thrown out of Dundee for doing a Boddy Sands
              ========================================

              Boddy Sands?

              Who is Boddy Sands?

              DimDumbZombie

      • Monti

        Correct mate!

    • Maggie

      @Monti
      “I’m so glad I’m not one of the people”…….. but you are one of the “Papal” Monti 🙂 HH

  9. mcfc

    Time to start planning ahead. When Arsenal moved to the Emirates, parts of Highbury were demolished and the LISTED parts were re-purposed – into a very popular development of flats. Imagine being an Arsenal fan living in a Highbury flat and having a season ticket at the Emirates – surely close to heaven.

  10. portpower

    Anyone want a bet on how soon the ban will be quietly dropped, and BBC reporters will once again be allowed access to Ibrox?

    It will be a BBC IOUbrox garden show next season. Televising the Green grass dying.

  11. Jim Traynor is an unashamed red meat eater.In fact,he eats more of it in a week than an African village would manage in a year.He is a fat bastard with no 21st century communication skills whatsoever.
    That is really all that needs said about this sloth…..Anything else would make him out to matter more than he ever did THEN,does NOW,and will do FOREVER.

  12. Budweiser

    Paul.
    I don’t know about being in the NUJ ,but he was never a journalist – more a spivcofant ! lol.

  13. Ed Paisley

    The Rangers board love to encourage this “under siege” mentality because they know it sells tickets. Unfortunately it is the dregs of the support that will rush out and buy these tickets to show their defiance. In the end it is self defeating.
    Traynor is a fat idiot with no idea of strategy. He has contributed nothing to Rangers. He was a limited journalist and now he is an inadequate PR man. He will go quite soon.

    I have no sympathy for Chic Young. Can anyone remember those sycophantic interviews with David Murray in the 90s? You and Walter are just the greatest and lets forget the continuing vast overspending and failures in Europe. Chic had his tongue so far up Murray’s arse he was the first person to get facial haemorrhoids. How could he, and where is his dignity.

    • Was watching Seven for the first time in years the other evening.

      Brilliant movie even now.

      Couldn’t stop thinking about Jabba when I was watching it…..Wonder why haha.

      • Monti

        Fat boy head buried in plate of Spaghetti, ate himself to death lol……having said that, all this jelly & Ice cream might seal a similar fate for me 🙂

  14. [Re-post]
    Is this what you would expect as the office of an eminent QC handling multi mil claim ……

    ML LLP

    Mind you, has lower floor Bistro/Conference facilities …….

    • portpower

      Right next door to the Singapore family trust office.

      • Bleeeeedin eck ………..
        Coombe Rd is just one big ……. one stop shop … !

        Reminds me of Mission Blvd, San Diego ……. but that was classy …..

        • Reminds me of mission district, SF, but that was less classy…! Tenderloin anyone?

          • know it well …….. don’t worry …. it was for meal …. often took the family there as best food in SF …. and very safe but yeah you did need to know where not to go …….. you know Waknut Creek ?

          • know it well …….. don’t worry …. it was for meal …. often took the family there as best food in SF …. and very safe but yeah you did need to know where not to go …….. you know Walnut Creek ?

  15. Psst …… Hey …… Craig …..

    That Harlot claims your legals are after her ……….

    Well, ………..know the office of your QC …….. you know ….. the eminent one (ahem) …..

    Can save you some readies here …… I know it’s short at mo (shhhhh !) ………

    Get them to pop two door ‘s down ……. just ask for ‘C’ …….

    Charlottes Place

    Psst again ………. I think it might also explain where all this stuff is coming from ……… !

    Cheers for now ……… ‘N’

  16. I promise U all ……….. this IS NOT Photoshopped ………

    You just can not make it up ………………..

    I’ve been rollin around all morning …………. it hurts ! ……..

    • Another shot of it ……….
      Fake It

      Charlotte …….. has a sense of humour ……

      So now we know how you came up with the name …………. LOL

      Coincidence …… ?

      Conspiracy ……… ?

      Now, i gather TE has a piece out ……… must get round to reading it ….. !

  17. http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/4933628/Secret-tape-reveals-Gers-boss-sacking.html.
    Chicco and Imran sack MM for leaking info….Then leak the info themselves.
    Such DIGNITY.?

  18. SairFecht

    OK – a ‘Fake It’ tanning salon, a legal representative’s office, some documents apparently showing the players in Craig Whyte’s business activities, a couple of photographs of a dome inside the Vatican. I’m just away down to Maplin to see if they do Enigma machines.

    All will be revealed – It’s a monstrous hoax along the lines of the Deeds of Constantine or the notorious Treasonable Address of Glasgow, April 1st 1820.

    • oops meant to take the basilicam pics off ……….
      nah … at the time they were giving a reg poster on here a message …….. they still hold the truth !

  19. I just thought I would look in. Poor old Niall seems to have hit on the real topic of the year PG Wodehouse. Many of the comments appear to be based on a dodgy drama doc. and a vitriolic hate of poor Niall. Too much deflection – see “House”. I am forming a view that much of the drivel on here is inspired by spending too much time watching popular drama. I had hoped that this site might have grown up a little, but no so. Disagree with Ecojon/Monti and you are a vile catholic hating Rangers supporter and/or an idiot.

    I am now treating my trips to this site much as one might treat a trip to the zoo. A chance to study a life form of inferior intelligence, but,alas, without the charm. Does Ecojon have any kind of life or does he just sit in his drab room hunched over his computer righting the wrongs in his head. See you all again soon.

    • SairFecht

      What is this? A critique? A review? A match-making attempt to hook-up with Niall? What have you got against popular drama when you spent so many years playing Ena supping halfs of stout in the Rovers’? Why do you want to come back soon if you don’t like it?

      • Niall Walker

        I think Violet is a secret East Fife fan.

        • Monti

          I think you are a secret East Fife fan..

          • Niall Walker

            Monti,

            The funny thing is for most of my life I disliked Rangers because of their religious bigotry, and as someone who believes in a united Ireland I had a soft spot for Celtic( but not the IRA).

            However the last 15 months have shown me the extremities of the OF are one and the same, they are both as bad, and I find it hilarious when a bigot sympathizes with the ” decent 2 fans on the other side, as if they represent the decent side of their fence.

            I am witnessing nothing short of mass delusion and hysteria.

            p.s. I don’t consider you or Carson to be bigots, bigots take themselves far too seriously.

            • Monti

              Niall, Irish republicanism isn’t sectarian, supporting Irish republicans does not mean I want people killed ( I don’t), 😉 Also Niall try to be less defensive it makes me curious as to why!

            • Paul

              @Niall
              Niall you are the deluded one for the last 15 months the so called other side of the OF have shown to you that the mighty institution is a fakeover to bleed money from the deaf and blind zombie followers, who have brought nothing but shame to Scotland. You should know better than to come on here pretending to be the voice of reason. Every post you make is intended to defend the corruption that all and sundry who are not blighted by bigotry and hatred can see through. Everything is all wee Craig Whyte’s fault just like the MSM, blame the one guy and let the real spivs get on with doing the dirty work, as long as the institution is protected. Defence of the the Realm, all the nasty IRA’s fault, pesky Muslims,Indians, Africans,Argentinians,Iraqis etc, never the institution.Thanks to people like you we fight endless economic battles with no outcome to the world and an end to poverty or corruption, keep feeding the Realm and protect the Institutions. Go have a reality check m8, this is not about hating or bashing rangers, do you honestly think we on the forums are going to sit back and watch as people are screwed left right and center, and to add insult to injury take a lecture from you who considers himself more educated than the readers on here.The rise and fall of rangers, how they self destructed the clue is in the title, have you read it and have you worked out who is to blame for the demise of the game in Scotland.Do you think we will be content to be fed crap from McMurdo, Leggo, Radio Clyde, SFA, Spl and all the rest of the Presbyterian media who want to protect a moronic crowd who think that they are the only people. WATP does this signify that humans are split into different species, give me piece. it took you 15 months to make a statement, admit it m8 you are one of the people and pretend to be balanced Niall the only show in town who trolls these blogs to put other people into place.The best thing for Rangers is to go straight the game is up and has been for a long time, we are the people, the people who through blogs will expose the corruption that has been taken place for over a century down Govan way.

            • Niall Walker
              May 19, 2013 at 3:08 pm

              Monti,

              The funny thing is for most of my life I disliked Rangers because of their religious bigotry, and as someone who believes in a united Ireland I had a soft spot for Celtic

              However the last 15 months have shown me the extremities of the OF are one and the same.
              ==================================================

              That’s a two faced lie!

              You’ve been spouting the same pish for more than 15 months.

        • Ed Paisley

          Cheers Violet. For your information, Niall is a highly regarded contributor to this site, despite having what many perceive to be a pro Rangers bias. Like Ecojon and many others, his comments are informative and entertaining. I don’t understand why you feel the need to carp from the sidelines. Maybe you are too sensitive?

          • Niall Walker

            Ed,

            After 8 years on message boards I have honed a polemic contentious style that fulfills my every need, and sociopaths do not understand sensitivity.

            East Fife will be playing Rangers next year, reminds of the good old days.

      • SairFecht
        May 19, 2013 at 1:57 pm

        What is this?
        A match-making attempt to hook-up with Niall?
        ====================================

        No!

        Violent is Niall, and carson, and cam, and many others.

        DimDummiesAll

    • Niall Walker

      Thank you Violet for your words of wisdom and support, in fairness to the motley crew I do invite their scorn, think of me as a Jesus type figure standing in front of the screaming hordes employing peace and love.

      They know not what they do, and in the words of a famous holocaust survivor ” don’t hate in plurals ” .

    • Monti

      Sniff sniff …….oaft!

    • Monti

      SEMI – CHEM, SUPERDRUG OR BOOTS….YOUR CHOICE ……

    • cregganduff

      Violet
      It’s difficult to feel sorry for Niall. He persists in posting nonsense and simultaneously telling everyone how intelligent and well informed he is.

      Possibly an attention seeking inadequate.

      Give him a bit of friendly advice and tell him to engage his brain and check his facts before rushing to post.

      • Niall Walker

        cregganduff,

        Here is some friendly advice, step up to plate and dispute my facts then we will see who is inadequate, sniping is cheap, debating is a little bit more expensive.

        I will wait here, bring some friends if you wish,you will need them.

        • cregganduff

          Niall
          You are a pathological narcissist. Your stupidity is matched only by your ego and I have no intention of satisfying your craving for attention.

          • Niall Walker

            You need more than brains to expose ones ego in a public debate, you need bottle, and yours just crashed.

            Stick to your insults, you can’t lose.

            • Monti

              mines hasn’t do you want to give it a go?

            • If he can’t lose, does that mean he wins? So confused Niall,please be more down to earth when commenting, we are mostly very fick and still we can spot, hunt, out a TROLL

        • Niall Walker
          May 19, 2013 at 2:55 pm

          Sniping is cheap….

          Yes, and your speciality.
          =============================

          Debating is a little bit more expensive…

          You couldn’t debate your way out of a paper bag.

          You’re just a cliche ridden blowhard.

      • david

        If that is correct, and it isnt, he has plenty fellow-travellers on this site.

      • cregganduff
        May 19, 2013 at 2:39 pm

        It’s difficult to feel sorry for Niall.

        Give him a bit of friendly advice and tell him to engage his brain and check his facts before rushing to post.
        ===============================================

        What brain?

    • Monti

      Interesting of you to raise the Zoo….

    • Inferior intelligence?

      Away and wash the dishes ya strumpet.

      Would need to have an IQ at least 20 points less than the average Sevconian to be on par with you.

  20. SairFecht

    OK Newtz I’ve started playing – googled the phone number to find the address of the appropriate barnard marcus outlet then goggled ‘craig whyte coombe road’ and came up with this!!!

    • SairFecht

      ..and my guess is what that you are getting at is that ‘Charlotte’ is looking to dump documents into the public domain to destroy CW’s case, wrecking confidentiality and rendering such documents inadmissible as evidence in a legal process…

      • There’s another possibility ………. well a few actually

        Where do you think an ‘authorised’ Disk Image might be sitting during an evidence collection ……. just a … guess !

        One might call it ……. newtz conspiracy theory …… !
        At the mo … that’s all it is …

        • @newtz.
          Why leak it if it is in the appropriate domain with powers to act?

          • ecojon

            @ barcabuster

            Perhaps to do a bit of arm twisting and save the time and money required to take legal action which is always a bit of a lottery.

            But the problem arises that I’m not sure that Charlotte is good for CW.but perhaps that’s just part of the subterfuge.

          • i’m forming the opinion now that this is orchestrated …….
            This info has undermined the SFA enquiry …… RIFC enquiry …. Lord Hodge enquiry …. BDO … RFC board ……

            What started as a coincidental find on Street View, and a bit of research to find that they don’t have much brass, low rent office space ……

            ( hypothetically), if they are the firm that will be used at court then this is an opportunity for serious income … one potential (cheap) tactic is to dump everything into public domain and hope for melt down and hopefully early pay-off ….. and maybe pay back to order …. for some !

            It would seem to me that in the course of their work … all of the information required would have been forwarded to allow examination of the evidence available ………

            Of course, since we can see that the office does not look the most secure of places (but for all I know it could well be like Fort Knox inside …. ), there may have been opportunity for the data to be …… aquired by persons unintended (possibly), and without their knowledge ….. but that supposes that that person(s) had knowledge of its location …… and then there is other possibilities …..

            purely my own opinion and no suggestions of any wrong doing is suggested or intended …….. we will call it ‘newtz conspiracy theory’ ……..

            cam will now tear me apart ….. !

            That’s ok, ….. I will plead complete insanity

            • ecojon

              @Newtz

              I did respond above although was not as direct in my approach 🙂

            • ecojon

              @ newtz

              I could go with the argument but I don’t believe the material has been obtained illegally or at least as clearly illegally as you might suggest. I think the issue will be much more clouded than that.

              If it was simple illegality then I believe Charlotte would have been taken down well at least her twitter account and the cops would be moving. But if illegal the feed might not stay open from much longer although it could pop-up elsewhere.

              Perhaps the original plan to feed it through TSFM was the preferred option but the critical examination there forced the move to Twitter as timing seems to be very important here and there are a numbers of reasons I can see for that which probably obscures the actual reason.

            • cam

              No Newtz,i’m giving you some slack on your safety line yet.
              Chez Cam looks like a normal habitat for a sub normal,knuckle dragging non recalitrant bigot from the outside, with the red,white and blue kerb stones.Inside its like Racoon City with armies of zombies ready to be unleashed.
              Its the timing of this stuff that strikes a chord,,,Craigie is sweating big time,he may hope that someone is gonna fold and his jack high will claim,if not the pot,, then an escape route, Craigie has been counting the cards and is being taken into the kitchen for a quick lesson in the rules of engagement.
              Fantastic stuff newtz, and as ever, entertaining.
              You bring to mind Sun Tzu’s quote.
              “Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?”

        • ecojon

          @Newtz

          Let me guess. Possibly in a lawyer’s briefcase while a fake tan is being applied in a nearby salon 🙂

          • Paul

            Like how cam described larkhall too a T

            • david

              You obviously dont know a thing about Larkhall , its demographics, or its massive contribution over the years to Celtic F.C. about which you appear to be completely unaware.

            • Monti

              Armadale is worse pure orange zombie zone, I remember I had to make an emergency visit yo a dentist there I had toothache, I didn’t tell him my affiliations lol, he took my tooth out like ‘ bill the butcher ‘ Gangs of New York fame! 🙂

          • @eco @cam @bara @bud
            gotta clear up one mistake ….. the QC is in the clear ….. he’s out of another office …
            To be clear …. the office is of legal firm Merchant Legal LLP …

            My map shows an association to James Holmes through Foundation (N. Ireland) …
            James Holmes was Chaiman of Merchant House Group (AIM suspended)
            James Holmes associated with Wills & Co along with gary Withey (FSA investigating) …..

            Now I’m intrigued ……. CtH claims CW legal team battling her right now ….
            @Adam don’t go ruining our fantasy ….. !

            If that is case then they must be close ……. close enough she is aware … so in that case (assumption) jurisdiction is not an issue ……. she’s a local girl ….. !
            That’s maybe a stretch …. but I’ll assume is the case …..

            Was the tweet designed to give others the impression there is no CW connection ………..

            It’s clearly not designed to throw CW ….. because he knows if connection or not ……. in fact might indicate to him he is close ! …..
            It just adds to the theory that it is orchastrated ….

            Green and co will undoubtably know what game is being played ….

            was it to simply add intrigue …..
            was it for the benefit of MSM …..
            was it for the benefit of the current investigating bodies …..

            Or Is it designed to keep the mainstay of Bampot opinion of the view that there is no CW connection ……. that keeps them on board ….. fuels further speculation …. debate … intrigue ….

            whatever the reason …… it has purpose …..!

            • Oh yeh, last accounts showed only £10k …… just qualifying …. low on brass …

            • arb urns

              for me she boobed twice yesterday… if she gets to switcheroo time….thats when it could get tricky for her……………………………………………………………..

            • She has copies of the … ‘Patrick Documents’ …
              inconcievable that she does not !

              After all, she released the audio of CG AE & CW discussing it …..

              This should explain the clause that allowed CG to novate …
              If not ………. big trouble !

              I just have this haunch that allowing CG to take the reins at that point might just be CW undoing … !

              If the doc(s) are not released then that is telling … !

              the jist of the issue is ….. who was controling Project Blue … ?

              Did CG gatecrash it ….. or control it ???

            • david

              Monti, according to you , why would Armadale need a dentist at all if it is full of one-toothed huns?
              You are lucky it wasnt Bill the Butcher

      • ecojon

        @ SairFecht

        Just because a matter is public knowledge doesn’t preclude its use as evidence in a court case as far as I am aware.

        • SairFecht

          @ eco – a mere wild guess – there is much about confidentiality in the document I’ve linked above after googling the coombe street address…

  21. Niall Walker

    In science, knowledge is not absolute but a ratio of evidential probability, even an evidence based fact is subject to this provision, a ” ratio “nal person believes what is probably true based on the quality and quantity of evidence that supports it.
    I have been reading OF forums for about 15 months and there is something that does not quite compute, both sides claim to have evidence that proves the authorities behind Scottish Football and the Scottish Media are biased against them and toward their rivals.
    In football Rangers are being both crucified and fraternized,and in the media Rangers are being both.victimized and appeased, and seemingly all of these contrasting conclusions are based on the same evidence. Knowledge as I said is a scale, but this scale has logical limits, both sides cannot be right on the same evidence, so something else is going on, something irrational.

    Prior to the enlightenment knowledge was based on subjective experience, and it kept us ignorant for thousands of years, eventually we replaced this biased process with an objective scientific method, and it works most of the time. If one views the evidence objectively it is clear there has and is bias in both cases but the bias is in favor of both clubs, and this given the size and importance of both clubs is understandable. So when one or the other gives Rangers or Celtic support, it is immediately interpreted by the non-recipient as against their cause.

    OF rivalry reminds me of sibling rivalry, two brothers always competing with each other and always complaining about favoritism from their parents. When a parent takes sides the other assumes bias and takes umbrage,and as any parent knows striking the right balance is not easy.
    I like the way both sets of fans indulge in self righteous indignation, always seeking the moral high ground to justify their whingeing, ” its just not fair ” seems a fair summation.

    So there is a conspiracy, and its not a secret one, both Scottish football and the Scottish media need the OF, and like parents try and give them what they want without offending the other.

    Unfortunately Scotland’s two favorite sons do not appreciate their privileged position, and want more and more, much to the annoyance of the rest of the football family, who given their first opportunity kicked Rangers in the ajna chakras.

    • Monti

      You talk some Shiite I’m happy to say….

    • Raymilland

      Missing you already;)

    • cam

      Real life having taken over prevented me from serving up my usual drivel.Just caught up on Niall’s decimation of Eco,,a tour de force of humour,non Google based knowledge,off the cuff thinking and the appliance of logic which had the auld yin and his familiars tied in knots.
      Niall you are the Errol Flynn of this site,swinging your blade with expertise and administering rogerings to all and sundry,,,lang may your lum reek!
      Newtz its good to know that as well as trying to save our planet from man made catastrophe, you’re also indirectly saving the mighty Gers. Wee Craigie’s desperation is increasing by the day.Career over Craigie,that’s what happens when you mess with the Queens eleven.
      Paul don’t concern yourself with Rangers media affairs.If its ok for Kenny to hold his press conferences in Bairds and go in a plum duff with the press,then the Gers telling the Scrote to haul his scary coupon off the premises is just fine.

      • @Cam.
        Back early mate. How was the weather down at Bletchley Park.?

        • cam

          My new controllers were looking at my CV,,,not CVA!,,, and thought i was ideal material for a deep sleeper insertion at the Vatican.
          Needless to say that phrase caused a quick clenching of the sphincter and the Camster ran screaming all the way home!
          Nay,tis much safer here in the genteel world of Eco-bollocks,mickey mousisms,Montifuckery and lunacy.

          • @Cam.
            You may be correct! Did you know that Vatican city has the highest crime rate per head of capita in the world? (Source, Q.I. on Dave.)
            Your melon twisting services would be invaluable there, so I am sad to hear you have bottled it.

            • cam

              Had a wonderful dream of dressing up in the full Mason Boyne regalia and marching through St Paul’s mace twirling,clergy being knocked over like ten pins whistling a happy tune!
              I could thole the crucifixion’s and the burning, barca,but i don’t even like panto’s at Xmas with all that “he’s behind you malarkey” good God that’s terrifying.

            • david

              Cam , are you getting your cathedrals mixed up?
              Do you mean St Peters, or does Mason Boyne hate Anglicans too?

            • cam

              Yes David it was a slip of my twirling finger,,,St Peters,,,on my bucket list,,,a glorious testament to mans inability to comprehend the mind of God.

          • Paul

            Why where they looking at your CTV, out without your tag again.

      • Bairds bar cost Kenny, respect for one, a stupid backs to the wall moment.
        Angers media performance so far is as expected, another backs to the wall triumph.
        But again, it’s you and you’re Watty Mitty comments, you seem to live in a Dungeons and Dragons state. Can you ever post without comment from Film Hero, Space Opera or shite?

    • BB

      A fair assessment but not completely accurate I’m afraid. You see on some Rangers minded sites, mcmurdo for example, there is an admission that certain elements of the rangers fan base need to move on and who were roundly condemned for the berwick episode by many on that particular site. It’s worth pointing out many gers fans are scathing of the club’s own custodians, so there is a certain degree of accountability and honesty. An acceptance to take their dues and work their way back up the leagues. On here it’s a different story, rangers are evil celtic are not and anyone daring to suggest both sides have their issues are denounced ridiculed and even demonized. There is zero tolerance on here for anyone having the cheek to offer an alternative point of view. Bigotry in other words. Without doubt rangers and their fanbase over the years could be criticized at certain times but likewise it would be foolish to suggest celtic and its fans have a history that is beyond reproach. A complete nonsense in fact but this place being full of the modern day pharisees that it is cannot and will not accept how hypocritical this environment is. It’s the same old same old. The ones who scream tolerance the loudest are the ones who practice it the least. Observe the flaming arrows which prove the point… ….

    • cam

      Yes Niall,the irrational brother is suffering from paranoia,social exclusion and a form of Tourette’s.
      Many studies in the behaviours of ethnic minorities have been carried out.
      The data from Scotland hasn’t yet been factored in but will follow roughly the same pattern.
      Most states have one or more ethnic minorities. Members of such groups invariably experience some degree of dissatisfaction with their status. In consequence, tension between subnational identity and national affiliation is a persistent and pervasive reality. Although a large literature addresses the relationship between culture and nationality, it cannot be said that the interaction of minority-group aspirations and related government policies is well understood. In this article, we seek to build a foundation for such understanding through the development of a framework for comparative study. We propose a diagnostic formula that focuses on minority-group demands ranging from recognition, access, and participation to separation, autonomy, and independence. We then consider the significance of geographical context and group-state interaction for minority goals. A more detailed analysis of circumstances that foster accommodation or conflict appears in nine case studies: Tamils in Sri Lanka, Druze in Lebanon, Old Order Amish in the U.S., Chinese in Thailand, Basques in Spain, Indians in Central America, Kurds in “Kurdistan,” Sikhs in India, and Swedish-speakers in Finland. In the final section of the paper, we offer suggestions and speculations on the reasons for attainment or frustration of minority-group goals, the efficacy of related government policies, and research needs in the large and rapidly evolving field of cultural-political studies.

      As you can tell, i C&P ed that as i’m unable to sustain reasoned intellectual debate due a laughter anomaly.

      • Ed Paisley

        You might have copy and pasted it cam but as long as you cite the source material and give the authors their due, then that’s fine. It does look quite interesting.

        So do you think we are like the Chinese in Singapore? We will go from being a minority community held back by prejudice and discrimination to become the absolute overlords? Nah – I don’t want that. Equality and equal regard for all traditions suits me fine and I think we are almost there.

        Yes we still have dinosaurs like Leggo, carson and yourself around but, as Chris Farlowe said, you guys are out of touch and out of time:-

        • cam

          No Ted,not like the Chinese,,,more like the Camel Turds in Garngadikstan!

          • Ed Paisley

            You made me laugh again you bugger!

            • cam

              Good man Ted,,you know that i’m a fisher of men and when i catch them i let them go again.They shall return to their villages and hamlets and speak of me and tales of the mighty Cam shall go before me as i swing my mace and rend my foe asunder,,,ffs this pear cider is strong shit!
              Gotta go lie down,,,,Morag! fetch ma comfort blanket doll.

      • gortnamona

        Cut to the chase Cam
        Send over a few boats for all those bible thumping Sunday park gate locking joyless Presbyterians that you planted on us. In return we will welcome home any of St. Patrick’s scattered children who wish to return to our freshly cleansed and blessed island. Call it quits after that.

        • cam

          I agree gort.Leave us to our dour cheerless ways,covet not our bigotry,for he who covets that which he cannot possess is a fool,,,i have no idea WTF that means and i blame the fermented apple juice.
          !

      • cam are you talking about the minority Ulster Scots in Ireland?????

    • Adam

      Go back 12/24/36 months and every decision by the referee was claimed to be against “us” no matter what side you were on. On some occassions, the same decision was actually viewed as both as being against “us”.

      Every paper is against “us”

      Every official is against “us”

      The police only have it in for “us”

      The SFA have it in for “us”

      Vince Lunny is against “us”

      The Daily Ranger/Rhebel hates us.

      The BBC are anti Rangers/Celtic

      I have said before, it has to be one of the following.

      1) The paranoid Rangers fans are right and the paranoid Celtic fans are wrong.

      2) The paranoid Celtic fans are right and the paranoid Rangers fans are wrong.

      3) Both sets of fans are wrong.

      Im firmly in the 3rd camp.

      • Monti

        Don’t think so Adam, there is no doubt throughout the history of the game in Scotland, Rangers (IL) have benefitted from referees on an EMBARRASSING SCALE!!

        • Adam

          You are in the 2nd camp. Im in the 3rd camp. Differing opinions.

        • david

          Monti, which team has had the most penalties, Rangers or Celtic?
          ( Celtic )
          Which team has had the most players sent off likewise
          ( Rangers )

          Over the history of the Premier League.
          These Masonic referees arent doing a good enough job.
          May their throats be cut and laid one cable tow from the shore.

    • @Niall “subjective experience”……I would contend that this does not equate with .’ignorance’. Interesting with your background in the arts you would make a statement like this. Surely there is truth in art which is not based in fact or conclusions reached objectively………

      * Agreed, both sets of fans indulge in self righteous indignation….. it is in itself a form of sport, I’m sure East Fife & any of their rivals from Fife indulge in it themselves. However Niall in the particular instance of the Rangers – Sevco, meltdown we have them, the SFA, the SPL, The MSM “bang to rights” over a barrel & by the short & curly’s.
      Case Dismissed!!!!!!!

      • Niall Walker

        Mac,

        Subjective experience alone is not a suitable process for establishing knowledge, this site is testimony to the fact that our minds are unreliable and susceptible to delusion, illusion and hallucination. Knowledge requires evidence and you have none, you are staring up at the sun convinced it revolves around the earth, there is no rational evaluation of the evidence its nothing but cognitive bias.

        p.s. I am not an artist nor a Rangers fan

        • Niall Walker
          May 20, 2013 at 12:13 pm

          p.s. I am not a Rangers fan.
          ======================
          Of course not Niall.

          You’re East Fife through and through, a team you defend at every turn.

          Well done

  22. Monti

    SUPERCOUNTYGOBALLISTICCALEYAREATROCIOUS…….! GET IT UP YE BUTCHER…:)

    • @NE.
      He is away with Carson for a dirty weekend. HQ ordered it while a combat Charlotte strategy is being devised. 🙂

      • cam

        There is no need for a counter to this barca,,,i think someone said that in times of chaos it is wisest to do nothing.

    • cam

      I’m behind you!

      • @ Cam
        I hope your real life interruptions, were fun based and nowt to worry about bro.
        What Dya think re Charlotte,…or Charlatan?

        • cam

          Always fun based as i inhabit a reality untouched by,,,well reality!

          My first thoughts were it was the work of a satanic,cloven hoofed KOSC cabal of internet bampots,,,you guys!
          Then it was Craigie and his last desperate salvo.
          Then it was the internecine board plotting at Ibrox.
          Newtz was a candidate as he would probably like to see the termination of all the hot air and noxious gases emanating from oop north.
          The pictures of the tottie that wee googley is latched onto look like the last party a wee man is holding before his next move to a less salubrious establishment.
          I don’t see anywhere a mention of the legality of these documents being “leaked”.
          Is this not an attempt at market abuse?
          Are the SFO in contact with the leaker?
          I know one certain fact ,,,Rangers will keep on keeping on.
          Eventually you guys will hear the penny drop and realise that this is OUR playground and when we get off the merry go round somebody is getting a good talking to.

          • @Cam.
            Your right! It is our playground, and the sooner we chase off the bad boys, the better it will be..

            • ecojon

              @barcabuster

              But we can’t chase away our most prolific poster who can’t stay away from the site and just think how much relief we provide for his wife and family not to mention the therapeutic value for cam 🙂

            • cam

              Exactly Eco as a penny wise presbyterian,i’m getting free sessions in here and every time i get up off Paul’s couch i feel happy in the knowledge that there are even bigger nutters than me!

  23. dan

    Strangely I find myself in agreement with a wee bit of Niall ‘Orange’ Walker’s latest and very long-winded post. And the wee bit is where he says ‘a rational person believes what is probably true based on the quality and quantity of evidence that supports it.’

    OK Niall try this. James Farry, heid bummer at the SFA deliberately delays the registration of a Celtic player at a crucial, and pivotal time in the season. Celtic hied bummer—and this was a first—-challenged Farry’s action and Farry had to resign.

    Hugh Dallas, chief of referees, is party to the circulation of anti-Catholic jokes. He is caught and has to resign.

    For over a century the SFA knew of, and yet at no time questioned, the sectarian signing policy of Glasgow Rangers. They were thereby complicit in this disgraceful episode.

    When Rangers went belly up last summer, the SFA not only bent rules to assist the dying club, they even invented new ones—-who had ever heard of Associate Membership before then? Ye Gods they even tried to have them kept in the top flight of the game

    The supporters of all clubs will say that referees are ‘against them.’ But only Celtic can point to a referee blatantly lying to our manager.

    There is sooooo much more I could say on the matter. But even on the basis of these few examples, is it irrational of me to believe that the authorities have shown bias towards Celtic and the community that comprises much of the club’s support? I’m sure there are posters on here who could chip in with other examples. But to what can Sevconians point when they clam to be ‘victims’ of persecution?

    • Niall Walker

      dan,

      Most of your evidence is not contemporary and irrelevant as evidence of current SFA bias, I live in the present and I suggest you join me. For example the policy of turning a blind eye to bigotry no longer exists in the SFA, what has old policies got to do with their present bias ?

      Apart from that, Farry’s resignation is not evidence of SFA bias, and anti-catholic jokes by a referee is not evidence of SFA bias, the lying ref is not evidence of SFA bias, all these were individual actions that breached SFA rules and they were punished.

      It seems to me you are hating plurals because of a few individual actions.

      This leaves us with the SFA ‘s response to Rangers, and from reading their articles, they acted in accordance with them, Celtic has a huge voice in the SFA ( Rangers fans claim bias) and contributed to these rules.

      I am no lawyer but ask Paul, this evidence would not convict the SFA of bias in 2013.

      • dan

        Last summer is not contemporary? And have I missed the bit where the SFA have come out against bigotry?

        Oh, and by the way, I note your constant use of the term ‘hating plurals’. Well, I don’t even hate singulars, my man. And as for ‘coming to join you in the present’. Mmmm. No thanks. Where you are seems to me to be a pretty disturbed place, irrespective of its temporal location. I mean, when you say you have been monitoring OF websites for fifteen months—have you been ‘away’ somewhere? For health reasons perhaps?

        • Niall Walker

          dan,

          If your evidence was strong there would be no need to attack my gentile persona, are you part of some biased conspiracy to demonize me, or is my imagination as vivid as yours.

      • Niall Walker
        May 19, 2013 at 3:46 pm

        dan,

        Most of your evidence is not contemporary and irrelevant as evidence of current SFA bias, I live in the present and I suggest you join me. For example the policy of turning a blind eye to bigotry no longer exists in the SFA, what has old policies got to do with their present bias?
        ==================================================

        That’s what Zombies like Graham Spiers said in the 80’s.

        Spiers ‘admitted’ that back in the dark days of the 50’s and 60’s Rangers may have been the recipients of favours from ‘old school’ referees, but not in ‘the modern age’.

        Your argument is just more of the same old, same old. Your just an apologist for the discrimination perpetrated by dead Rangers and the SFA, and now the Tribute Act and the SFA.

        Same old mantra.

        Same old bigots

    • Poor old Celtic – I am glad that I am not from the bigotry soaked west. One crime follows another and a whole religious community is side-lined and made to feel second rate. MInd you it could be that all that guilt gives them a persecution complex. Any how, I am happy in my atheism – it really is the best way. By the way Niall, I am an East Fife sympathiser. Though to most on this site I am really a rabid rangers loving, celtic hating bigot. In other words I am the opposite of most on this site.

      I just cannot get my head round the depth of hatred this site has for Rangers. Why should it matter this much? Wouldn’t some of the herd prefer their team to test themselves against the other big beast in the forest? Hatred is so unattractive, but then the Celtic type on here tends towards the pasty faced runt who used to be picked last at games and spent his youth indoors giving birth to ideas of injustice. In the past they would have had to go down the pub and air their views and get beaten up by men who had spent more time out of doors. But the internet gave them the chance to shout in the dark and the means (Wikipedia possibly) to seem as though they had been educated. It also gave them a chance to re-invent themselves. The number of times I have read people claim experiences to justify opinions is risible. I was captured by the Germans in 1943, My father was on the NA Convoys, my mother used to clean for the Pope, I knew a man who was rogered by a priest, ate a cat live, had 7 testicles, saw Celtic’s first game, lived in a hole in the road etc. etc. All of it bogus of course, but used to lend weight to some ludicrous argument. As I said earlier, treat it like a trip to the zoo and it is of some merit; take it seriously and madness will follow – look at Monti.

      • @Vi
        You drink in some rough auld pubs dear. Maybe you should consider paying a little more, for whatever your imbibment, and frequent some less hostile establishments.

        • ecojon

          @barcabuster

          I seldom find myself agreeing with Violet but I must confess that I don’t believe Wodehouse was captured by the Germans either.

          I assume of course that the dig at the Russian Convoys probably refers to my dad who served on them with the RN. He also served in the Atlantic, the English Channel and the Mediterranean. Of course there are two other posters on here whose dads also served on the convoys that I am aware of.

          Btw Violet I have just got round to applying for his posthumous Arctic Star and will wear it with pride along with his other medals including the Russian ones.

          I just fail to understand what kind of twisted mind could accuse anyone of making that up about a father who is now dead. Some very strange people on this site with some serious psychological hang-ups who appear to be more used to drinking in the last-chance saloon 🙂

          • Ecojon

            I deeply resent this. I have given you a TD for ‘agreeing’ with me. You are supposed to be ignoring me and now I find you commenting on one of my posts, please stop. For the record my great uncle served in the NA Convoys and my grandfather was blown up in several tanks. But, I would never use either fact to try and justify an argument unless I had been there. I once met the Queen and have shaken hands with a couple of Prime Ministers but it is bogus to pray-in-aid either fact in pursuance of an argument about Royalty or politics. I am now waiting for the man who claimed t have 7 testicles to comment.

            Cam and Niall – keep up the uphill struggle.

            • “I would never use either fact to try and justify an argument…”

              Neither did any of the posters concerned. As for 7 testicles, you talk enough bollocks on your own.

          • Niall Walker

            I may be wrong but I do not believe Violet was commenting on PGW’s capture, and to believe anything without evidence is called ” blind faith “..

            Years ago there was a Jew who understood human fallibility and built a philosophy of forgiveness around our weakness, he died forgiving his tormentors.

            I am not in his league, but I try to forgive a 60 year old man for being politically naive and selfish, especially since he did not contribute to the suffering of anyone, including holocaust victims.

            Any history student knows who invented concentration camps, and it wasn’t the Nazis, it was us, he who casts the first stone etc etc.

        • gortnamona

          Viol

          A drop more water with the Johnny Walker maybe Vi. You are starting to rave.

      • cam

        Ah Violet,that was a classic and shall invoke mucho thumbs and ungentlemanly conduct,,,bravo!

      • Niall Walker

        Violet, an atheist and an East Fife sympathizer.

        I am in love, begone ecojon.

      • Monti

        you just can’t stop talking about Zoo’s, can you Vile – it? GBTP!

      • BB

        Sorry V. I’m compelled to mention you’re way is not the best, but then wide is the gate and broad is the road-…Come near to Him and he will come near to you. Try it, you’ll never look back.

    • ecojon

      @dan

      I have long thought that the persecution complex which a fair number of online Rangers fans appear to believe they are subjected to seems to be rooted in their failure to retain this rather strange ‘right’ to Supremacy which is claimed as a birthright.

      It also creates the concept that opposing teams are an ‘enemy’ and that football matches must be regarded as and talked about as if they are ‘battles’ and opponents not ‘beaten’ but ‘destroyed’. Some supporters of other teams suffer similarly in terms of the ‘battle’ and ‘enemy’ symbolism but I have yet to identify any other team which has adopted ‘The right to Supremacy’ in quite the same way as Rangers and evidenced by their ‘WATP’ mentality.

      • Niall Walker

        ” I have long thought that the persecution complex which a fair number of online Rangers fans appear to believe they are subjected to seems to be rooted in their failure to retain this rather strange ‘right’ to Supremacy which is claimed as a birthright. ”

        …or maybe they just read Celtic forums, I prefer to select the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions, maybe you should try Occam’s razor.

        • Violet, I think we are owed a more in depth description of the just cause or secular Jehad that you envisage Niall & cam are embarking on?
          Also I suspect you are in your own rage confusing our ridicule of Sevco for hatred.
          While we’re at it one of humankind’s most objectionable traits is piety, as a religious person I detest religiosity being worn as a badge of moral superiority, what is equally bad however is the stench of secular piety.
          Moral obnoxiousness is not confined to those who possess what Niall alluded to as “blind faith”

          • Niall Walker

            Mac,

            I am interested how you can possibly equate secular morality( universal freedoms and equality) to superiority, and how can you object to anyone’s devotion to these basic principles.

  24. PaulThePostie

    “If however the plan was to do something to make fans feel happy,then banning the BBC at least managed to satisfy the rangers fans online”…. Spot on. This whole sorry mess of a football club gone bust which happened under their (the so called watp) watch lies solely with them, not SDM WHYTE GREEN OR LAWELL.

  25. SairFecht

    It’s funny how Tom English writes the way he comments on radio – in a sort of bold and uncompromising way withy little room for reflection or argument – following his authoritative and somewhat scornful take on the Charlotte issue today, is it possible to read this previous article of his on the imminent Craig Whyte takeover at Ibrox without laughing?

    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/tom-english-craig-whyte-s-rangers-takeover-bid-has-been-a-tortuous-process-1-1595764#.UZi_ZzbGKCQ.twitter

    • ecojon

      @Sair Fecht

      I hadn’t noticed it but others have that Tom in that earlier article used figures not generally or publicly known but which were revealed by Charlotte two years later. So was TE a recipient of the succulent lamb all that time ago?

      Fascinating and disappointing as I have always thought that although a little quirky he was one of the best of the bunch. Is he too preparing an escape route?

    • The Hidden Fortress

      Perhaps he was also ‘duped’.

      • ecojon

        @The Hidden Fortress

        Always difficult to know with a journo whether they have been unwittingly duped or have allowed themself to be duped either for an exclusive or, indeed, not to be left out of the gang which would mean a kick up the bahookie from their boss.

        What is more important though is that the story can help identify the source if you know what to look for and have sufficient background info. As I said Charlotte appears to have tied the possible source in two years later. You can be sure that there is always the possibility that past ‘misdeeds’ often do come back to haunt from the strangest of places.

  26. Monti

    @Ferrero Rocher …Rangers (IL) Did not pay taxes, in order to GAIN SPORTING ADVANTAGE, Rangers (IL) fans caused ESPN that much of an embarrassment they had to apologize to watching viewers for the sectarian abuse they were being subjected to, I could go on & on with examples, I ask you, give me one example where Rangers fans are being victimized ?

    • Niall Walker

      Monti,

      You should direct your question at those who claim Rangers fans are being victimized, I am not one of them.

      As for non-payment of taxes gaining a sporting advantage, in season 2011-12 Rangers did not pay their tax, won nothing and ended up in the lowest tier of Scottish football. I see no evidence of any sporting advantage, in fact the opposite.

      Please do not mention EBT’s, the jury is out and if it is against Rangers then one would have to prove Rangers could not have raised the extra money to pay for the wages, and there is simply no way of proving this.

      • Monti

        what about the EBT scheme then? Why not mention it?

        • Niall Walker

          Monti,

          In order to prove Rangers gained an unfair advantage one would have to prove they could not afford to pay the tax it avoided, and its simply impossible to prove this. The unfair advantage only exists if Rangers could not afford the players, which as I say we cannot prove.

          • @Niall.
            It was clearly stated that it was a method to pay players they could not otherwise afford.

          • arb urns

            Niall……. Why did your team go bust so soon after the EBT’s were no longer available as a means of ‘reducing’ outlay on players salaries in the PandL department ?

            I am comfortable that fact is ample proof of sporting advantage gained OVER A TEN YEAR PERIOD.

            • cam

              Arb,,,i have a vision of you in camouflage make up like Martin Sheen,rising out of a bunker with a 7 iron,,,Niall is your Kurtz,

            • Niall Walker

              arb,

              My team did not go bust, and in reality the reason Rangers went bust was because CW did not pay tax, you cannot just presuppose the absence of EBTs caused its downfall, I could say it was due to large operating costs outwith wages or SDM running out of money or the economic crash, its just speculation not proof.

          • Monti

            If they could have afforded the tax they wouldn’t have avoided it, surely? They did avoid it on multiple players!

            • Niall Walker

              Monti,

              People avoid tax for lots of reasons, are you saying the only reason Starbucks avoid tax is because they cannot afford to pay it ?

              Rangers did make money sometimes and lost sometimes, how can anyone decide when they could afford it or not, for most of the period SDM could obviously afford it.

            • Raymilland

              @Nial Walker

              http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/energy-suppliers-urged-to-cut-fuel-1533541

              For every fiver you burn, I’ll burn ten.

              I’ll tell the gas board it’s ok my meter is going backwards cause I can afford to pay higher bills.

              It’s only illegal if you get caught?

            • Adam

              Why do players/managers and directors who can “afford to pay tax”, avoid doing so by joining film company schemes designed solely to avoid tax?

              I bet you cant answer.

            • Or why did they call themselves Celtic Athletic ? , just to register as a charity and avoid paying tax and business rares at the going rate maybe ? no maybe about it the hypocrites.Or why do they pay £260,000 into a bank account in Gibralter as interest on an $9m dollar loan that never goes away, when they could pay it here and pay tax on it ?

            • Raymilland

              @Adam

              vantage
              n.

              1.a. An advantage in a competition or conflict; superiority.
              b. A position, condition, or opportunity that is likely to provide superiority or an advantage.
              2. A vantage point.
              3. Sports an advantage.

              comeuppance
              n.

              A punishment or retribution that one deserves; one’s just deserts:

            • Adam

              ray – sorry, that was aimed at Monti, not you.

              “If they could have afforded the tax they wouldn’t have avoided it, surely? ”

              So Monti, why do players, managers, coaches, ex managers and Directors who can “afford tax” avoid it by investing in these film schemes ?

              Oh, and do you consider all of these people as cheats ?

      • charliedon

        @Niall
        Sorry, but I have to mention EBTs. You correctly point out that the jury is still out on the strict legalities of the EBTs. But in saying that it can’t be proved Rangers could not have raised the extra money to pay the wages, you are being somewhat disingenuous.
        Rangers saved paying tax on the EBT payments to players and that money saved was available to Rangers in their player budget to sign more, or better, players.
        That is a very simple fact.

        • Niall Walker

          charliedon,

          You must prove Rangers could not have afforded the players without EBTs and it is simply impossible, nothing disingenuous about it. You are claiming an unfair advantage and that requires proof. Can you state as a fact that Rangers could not have put up ticket prices to cover the amount or that SDM could not afford to write a cheque ?

          • charliedon

            @Niall
            I’m afraid I’ve lost you. I never claimed Rangers gained an unfair advantage. I simply pointed that by not paying tax on the amount paid to the players via the EBTs they would have had more money to spend on players. Is that not correct?

      • arb urns

        These pro Rangers posts are not spontaneous Niall the thoughts are deep in there………. as deep as Cams infact………………………………………………….

        Infact your position on here reminds me of ‘The Ron Atkinson Affair’ …In realisation of Rons ‘other side’ Brendon Batson, who had sweated blood for Ron, asked, where did that come from, why is that in there ?

        Your posts are littered with the same.

        • Niall Walker

          arb,

          Nothing about Rangers requires deep thought, reason and logic are employed in everything from the nature of existence to human nature.

          I will take your comment as a hidden compliment.

        • ecojon

          @arb burns

          most astute 🙂

  27. Who would want to leak this?

    on a scale of embarrassment that runs from 1- 10, it goes all the way up to an excruciating 11.

    • ecojon

      @Martin

      Well Imran states that it is a recorded conversation so it has to be assumed it was from the Ibrox end. And after MM hangs up the tape continues with bits of audio on it so I doubt if there can be any doubt it was done at Ibrox.

      Even if Murray had taped as well he wouldn’t have had the quality of Imran that was present. So who leaked it? Well what did Imran do with the tape – possibly it was forgotten about when he left Ibrox rather abruptly so perhaps it wasn’t the Ahmad/Green camp that leaked it. Maybe like Hart’s shareholding money it was just found lying about at Ibrox. I wonder if Charlotte has anything on the money that was just lying about Ibrox? That could make interesting reading.

      But the real question is why was Imran sacking MM. He isn’t a Board Member of RIFC Plc. He is commercial director of TRFCL so what authority does he have?

      I don’t believe that Green even as CEO would have the authority to delegate this to Imran. Looks to me as though Green for all his hard-man tough-talking Yorkshire image just doesn’t have the guts to do his own dirty work. Looks as though it was a psychological warfare scenario to wear MM down as possibly they didn’t think the Board would actually sack Murray if it came down to it.

      Tales doing the rounds that Green has left for France and WON’T be returning to Glasgow under any circumstances and that he has arranged for goods and chattels to be shipped to him. I haven’t a clue if it’s true or not but, if so, it looks as though MM has managed to outlive Green down Ibrox way which I have always thought was his game plan. At the end of the day I totally accept that MM is a lifelong Rangers supporter and doesn’t suffer from the rangeritis which seems to inflict Englishmen just passing through Ibrox.

      • Ed Paisley

        @eco
        I have no doubt that the bill for shipping Mr Green’s goods and chattels to France will end up on the desk of Mr Stockbridge who will have no trouble approving it.

        • ecojon

          @Ed Paisley

          Wonder how much they charge for a fully loaded warchest. Won’t be just the pay-off and share money of course but possibly a few deid bodies as well as all the tapes.

          I had my fights with the old dynasties at Parkead – probably more accurately described as dinosaurs. But I can honestly say that even in the worst of times it was never ever like this. Sometimes I have to give myself a shake to make sure I’m awake at some of the stuff that’s going on.

      • Ecojon,

        It sounds to me like Green sacked MM prior to the telephone recording and that Imran persuaded Green that it would look better if MM stayed till the end of the season. Albeit with strict rules imposed.

        MM gives the impression that he believed he was already gone and seems somewhat confused.

        Either way it’s brutal stuff.

        As to Green leaving for France – surely he’ll be back for the Champions League games 🙂

        • ecojon

          @Martin

          No he won’t he’ll have a pirate feed to Rangers TV – picture won’t me much cop but he’ll here the music no prob as they seem to have the audio all sorted out doen Ibrox way 🙂

          The bit about Green being confused is actually explained when he says he had been prepared for the axe – so there is either an earlier phone call or letter or meeting. So I reckon your take on it is accurate.

          But very telling is that the call when Murray phoned back isn’t produced – well at least not yet although it might never be.

          Obviously the thing that sent the maroons up was Murray going to Cenkos – although they are Nomad to rangers they also have a statutory duty in terms of AIM Regulation so when the chairman of a public company starts mouthing off to them then they may have to report it to AIM.

          I think there’s been a spat and Murray was possibly fired by Green but then wiser counsel has prevailed thinking about how this would look to AIM and investors so they came up with the end of season scenario. In the interim Green and Imran have been torpedoed and are out the door.

          Seems to me that MM can be ruthless and quite effective when he needs to be and he probably has engineered the demise of the pair which might let him walk away. Another good Rangers man just like John Brown treated like garbage by people who have no interest in Rangers as a club but only as a money making vehicle to be milked dry asap.

  28. jimmy white

    I see niall must be taking a deep breath and counting to ten before posting, has not mentioned his favourite word yet “hate”, won’t belong though before his head begins to turn purple and frothing around the mouth, his peepers are probably burling around in all directions now as i type this post while mumbling away, hate, hate, hate, must keep calm timmy thinks am a east fife fan, timmy thinks ave a liking for timmy.
    Aye timmy’s no daft niall, the hate word blew your cover and you fool know one, try and be honest and grow up, truth will always out.

    • Niall Walker

      jimmy my little precious,

      You have a vivid imagination my friend, try and put it to better use, as character assassinations go your juvenile attempt is in the Diadora League.

      I always worry when I become part of people’s fantasies, I hope they are not losing sleep over me.

      • jimmy white

        Niall you fool no one, last night the word hate was used incessantly, I have no doubt it must have been a monumental task omitting the word obsession, where do we come across these deflective words in such abundance? Very much in turn with your very high self opinionated worthiness and very hard (impossible) to hide defence of sevco and the greedy money grabbing parasites ripping off the duped, easily lead support. Lord help anyone who might show a slight toward the establishment within earshot of you, arf arf.

        • Niall Walker

          jimmy white,

          The word hate tends to crop up a lot in a discussion about hating in plurals, if you are discussing Rangers then do you mention Rangers much ?
          I fail to see how using the word hate in a discussion about hate can be construed as deflection, and I fail to see how a discussion about PG Wodehouse can be construed as defending Rangers.

          You seem lost.

  29. Paul McG

    Most opinions are formed from suppositions based on a supporting premiss. Certainly not empirical evidence to begin with in most cases thats why we have theories and experiments. That is also why some of lifes discoveries have been accidents whilst pursuing some other endeavour

    if by continually skewing the question to ones own ends supports ones own life views then the result is a closed mind

    An omniscient style of debating – when no-one actually does or can know everything – will not win over one’s detractors

    As to the orginal question of the blog – I believe its childish and bad plublicity for a major business to ban journalists based on what may or may not be in the newspapers. If anything by not taking part in a process where the news can be shaped as to the content published I would have thought that a ban could lead to one sided or biased news reporting possibly to the detriment of the organisation involved. Always better to try and control the news than to let it run wild..

    • cam

      Normally your media argument would hold true,but this is Glasgow,the hotbed of sectarian bitterness,journalistic favouritism and rumour mongering with malicious intent.
      The Beeb are IMO anti Rangers in their reporting,the complete lack of reverence in the Scrote’s demeanour when he speaks of the mighty Gers is proof positive of a dark plot within the walls of that Mordor at Pacific Quay.
      Set the hounds on them.

    • BB

      Hugh keevins agrees…..

    • ecojon

      @Paul McG

      I think there can be arguments on occasion when a print journo steps way over a line that a ban ends up imposed. But it is usually transitory and sorted in a couple of weeks max.

      It’s a much more serious affair when it is a TV broadcasting outfit mainly because of the TV contracts in place and the loss of product exposure for advertisers, shirt sponsors and the like.

      The Rangers ban is pretty pathetic and a sign of the hysteria which seems to have overtaken board members and senior management at Ibrox. I think as it’s the end of the season that the Beeb have let it go quietly. But they will be applying pressure on the league authorities and reminding them of the terms of their contract.

      And as the Beeb knows how to use PR there will be informal contact with sponsor PR departments making sure they are aware of the loss of advertising exposure with the suggestion that they too might wish to have a word with Rangers and they will – trust me on that one.

      Rangers will be allowed to produce some form of words to delude supporters with but there will be no ban for the new season but of course who knows if Rangers will still be playing the way their boardroom shenanigans are.

      There also seems to be a questionmark over hopw much IPO cash is left with some estimates as low as £8-10 million. I don’t have a clue what is in the pot but I do know there are obviously expenditure claims piling-up against the kitty.

      And then if there is any kind of action involving season ticket sales then who knows how that will pan out.

      • BB

        In summary, it’s ok for Celtic to impose bans but not Rangers. Predictable duplicity as usual. There are plenty of reasons why Rangers should ban bbc scotland from ibrox although the reason they actually did ban them for me wouldn’t be one of them , but there are an abundance of others.
        Suffice to say anyone denying the culture of contempt that is blatantly demonstrated by pacific quay on a habitual basis regards Rangers is to deny the reality of the situation

        • ecojon

          @BB

          As usual you don’t extend the courtesy of identifying who you are addressing your remark to. I will assume it is me this time but in future I won’t. It’s nice to be nice you know or possibly not.

          How you can make the statement that it’s OK for Celtic to impose bans but not Rangers from my post mystifies me because I did not say that and didn’t even allude to that in any way. So your ‘predictable duplicity’ comment is not only meaningless but childish.

          There may well be plenty of reasons why Rangers should ban the BBC from Ibrox and they may be warranted or not. But we are actually dealing with one particular case here and it would seem you agree with me that this case didn’t constitute a good reason for banning.

          Your comment: ‘Suffice to say anyone denying the culture of contempt that is blatantly demonstrated by pacific quay on a habitual basis regards Rangers is to deny the reality of the situation’.

          I can only say that the comment smacks of paranoia that the BBC cares enough about Rangers to actually mount a sustained hate campaign against the club. If you believe that to be the case then there are quite extensive mechanisms available with which to bring complaints against the BBC and to involve the Trust as well.

          However, sweeping allegations without proof will cut no ice so you will need to detail your complaint to corroborate it. If it’s as bad as you claim why doesn’t the RFFF spend some of the £500k it has to take legal action against the BBC. It would appear that you should win hands down from what you have claimed and you’ll be awarded expenses and damages and with all that extra money you can buy more shares in Rangers. So it’s win win whatever way you look at it.

          I wish you luck in your endeavours and will wait and see whether you are just another moaner with an agenda who doesn’t actually do anything to support his own club but takes cheap pops at Celtic fans who couldn’t care less what you say or think because they know what you are about.

          The Darkside is stirring at the moment and organising itself to try and sort out the Rangers Board of Directors while you spend your time on here talking pash and making loonball allegations. I hope there are some good Bears about who actually care for their club and are working to save it because you don’t pass muster and I seriously doubt that you ever will.

  30. arb urns

    Niall Walker

    May 19, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    barca,

    Where was this clearly stated ?
    ————————————————————————————————-
    B hell N u come on here spouting all this pash and you’ve never read it……

    you’ve never actually read it……….what this whole thing is about and you’ve never actually read it………… youve never actually read it………………….

    This is armageddon for you on here……. no way back……the gratuitous alienation defeats……the pgw disaster…….the veteran hollywood actor eating you for breakfast this morning……….your neglected childhood and your parents being blameless……… your admission of ulster protestantism….
    all pale………….. you’ve never actually read it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Tell him Cam……….where the hell do you get them from…………………………

    • Niall Walker

      arb,

      Please make your mind up, am I under or over prepared…lol.

      Where did I admit Ulster Protestantism, I was baptized an atheist.

      • arb urns

        we/they it was pointed out to u………. might have been ulster scots………….
        u were tongues with cam at the time so easily missed I guess.

      • @Niall
        Cam made a reference to the KKK, in his own joking inimitable style. You replied that WE the Ulster Scots took moonshine and fiery crosses over with us.
        Another wee point. Saying the last word in a debate, does not mean you have been successful.
        Do you find in real life, people often walk away from you shaking their heads?
        This is the 3rd time this weekend I have had to correct you. I am only an engineer, who got lucky in life, and no doubt you will contend that as you are obviously so much more intelligent than me, and a “high falutin'” (as they say in Dixie) businessman, I got lucky again.
        But have no fear, I will not correct you again. You are blanked.

        • Niall Walker

          barca,

          ” You replied that WE the Ulster Scots took moonshine and fiery crosses over with us.”.

          Here is actually what I said and I aint too happy at having to trawl my way through countless pages to prove you wrong, yet again.

          ” If it wasn’t for the Ulster Scots there would have be no moonshine or fiery crosses in AMERICA, we took our traditions with us. ”

          Now you may be an Engineer but you don’t know your own history, the Scottish clans took their moonshine and fiery cross traditions to Ulster and then onto America, and I am Scottish.

          Just Pathetic.

          • arb urns

            Niall…. WE took OUR traditions aligns you if you are non-aligned you would have said THEY took THEIR traditions… this was pointed out to you at the time if you would read things you wouldnt have to self annoy yourself so much

  31. dan

    Hey! I posted a reply to Niall ‘Orange’ Walker’s reply to my reply to a post of his! Where is it?

  32. dan

    Oh and bye the bye, Niall ‘Orange ‘Walker is merely one of multiple personalities on here. Believe me. And if he says he’s not—let him prove it.

    • Niall Walker

      dan,

      Proving negatives is not cricket for a reason, can you prove Santa Claus does not exist ? The onus of proof is on the positive claimant, as it happens I do have multiple personalities and one of them is reading your lost post, it is rubbish.

      • JohnBhoy

        Niall: “You must prove Rangers could not have afforded the players without EBTs…”

        Niall: “Proving negatives is not cricket for a reason, can you prove Santa Claus does not exist? The onus of proof is on the positive claimant..”.

        One the one hand you ask a poster to prove a negative then, just as quickly, adopt the contrary view with another poster. You do get your knickers in a twist.

        • Ed Paisley

          JohnBhoy
          Don’t burst Niall’s intellectual bubble – he’s on a role with his cool logic and unmatched mastery of every topic.

        • Bill

          The point is the same in both. it’s not contrary.

        • Niall Walker

          Johnbhoy,

          I am afraid you are wrong yet again, my knickers are on straight and pulled up tight. Proving a negative is not cricket when it relates to existence nothing else, I can prove I did not murder you because I have an alibi, ergo proving a negative but I cannot prove Santa Claus does not exist by any means.

          I was asked to prove something did not exist, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence negates this possibility, therefore in logic the onus lies with the positive claimant to prove what they claim exists with evidence.

          It is claimed EBT’s provided Rangers with an unfair advantage, this is a positive claim and the onus is on the claimant to prove it, and the only way this can be done is by proving Rangers could not afford to pay the
          saving. So I am not asking anyone to prove a negative, I am asking them to prove their claim which necessitates proving a negative, this is not my fault, I am not making the stupid claim. If you can think of another way of proving this positive claim without proving the negative then please proceed.

          I have proven my positive claim using simple Logic, if EBT’s were absent Rangers could have increased the ticket prices to afford the extra cost, and this is undeniably self evident.

          I believe that is ” twist “.

          • JohnBhoy

            Nonsense. Example of your faulty logic: “I have proven my positive claim using simple logic, if EBT’s [sic] were absent Rangers could have increased the ticket prices to afford the extra cost, and this is undeniably self-evident”. Including a vague and unproven supposition within pretend Socratic logic does not prove anything. You have no evidence that Rangers could have increased their ticket prices to compensate for the value of the EBTs – it is only an assumption, and one based on no evidence, ergo not a proof.

            Inconsistent application of your own righteous principles is in one sense delicious irony but, more revealingly, it reflects a dull mind with the memory of a goldfish.

            Logic is not your strong point.

            • Niall Walker

              Johnbhoy,

              I do not have to prove anything, its not my claim, I do not need the evidence, the person who is claiming needs the evidence, the claim states it was impossible for Rangers to raise the funds, I don’t need to suppose anything, the onus is on them not me. I was just being thorough in providing you with self evident reasons why proving it was impossible may be difficult. They must prove it was NOT POSSIBLE, and I do not have to prove it is possible, its not my claim.

              Don’t give in, this is fun.

            • Niall Walker

              p.s.

              You are overdoing the drama, tone it down, I would hardly describe the possibility of Rangers putting up ticket prices as a ” a vague and unproven supposition “, it is a self evident fact. I only need to prove it is possible, remember ?

          • arb urns

            FFS Niall do you read anything it has been pointed out to you on here that Rangers themselves admitted the EBT’s allowed them to sign players where in your words they could not afford to pay the saving. What more proof do you need ?

            I have just written to the OED proposing a spelling alteration…………………..

            aNIALLate…………yer shipping the aNIALLations by the hour

            • Niall Walker

              ” where in your words they could not afford to pay the saving. What more proof do you need ? ”

              arb, I want a link to THEIR words saying they could not afford to pay the saving, where is it, give me it and I change my mind, Rangers will be guilty of unfair advantage, if they are found guilty.

      • Monti

        Santa Claus does exist,I asked for an SPL without Rangers………

        • arb urns

          @ Niall 11.52pm

          Both Barca and I have told you where it is, from memory it was Rangers Mr Black who said they could not afford to pay the saving to again quote you…. it might have been his rep mind you…..its in there though…… u really have stuffed yourself with this one…….not having read the most important doc in this whole charade…………………………………………………….

          here’s another cock up you’ve just made…”rangers will be guilty of unfair advantage, if they are found guilty”……… The DOS Scheme !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  33. Is Hugh keevins not barred from septic park ??????….and if Rangers want to wear orange tops so what ! septic have a statue of a priest outside their midden….. hipocracy ?

    • The statue is of Andy Kerins, or Brother Walfrid as the deluded call him, he loved of the bhoys, he was the frontman who founded the club he called back then,and pronounced “keltic”, he did so out of apostasy, or to keep the little catholic bhoys away from the protestants as they would lose “their grip” on them

  34. Ed Paisley

    @cam
    So cam the BBC at Pacific Quay are institutional anti-Rangers. According to Leggo, the Record, the Herald and the Scotsman are all run by Rangers haters. In addition the City of Glasgow Council and the Scottish Parliament is overwhelmingly anti-Rangers.
    If your perception is right Cam, it means that the Knights of St Columbia are running every organ of the media and government in Scotland.
    Wait a minute – does that mean…WE arra peepul?!? Am I gonna have to get ugly tattoos of horsemen and start drinking bucky. But I’ve got all my own teeth and I have friends of non-European ancestry. I don’t even demonize benefit claimants. It can’t be true!

  35. JohnBhoy

    Niall: “Prior to the enlightenment knowledge was based on subjective experience, and it kept us ignorant for thousands of years, eventually we replaced this biased process with an objective scientific method…”

    Your venture into philosphy, like your debating skills, displays the error-prone enthusiasm of an amateur. Empricism – the theory of knowledge based on eperience – has not been replaced by rationalism. Knowledge acquired through experience remains a fruitful, and largely dependable, method of daily interaction with the world. The period of enlightenment showed that rational thought was another important way in which to appropriate knowledge. This debate, empiricism v rationalism, best exemplified by Locke and Descartes, has been going on ever since – which is the better? That said, rationalism has not replaced empiricism as you claim (“we replaced this biased process with an objective scientific method”). Instead, it has augmented experiential learning and both now work hand in hand: e.g. scientists regularly develop theories then apply experiments to see if their theories work; or, alternatively, observe real life experiences from which they develop theories. Similarly, people observe how Rangers operate and develop a theory.

    Knowledge is not your strong point.

    • JohnBhoy

      “eperience” = “experience”.

    • Bill

      That was the most terribly copied and pasted reply i’ve seen in a while, or you just don’t understand empiricism .

      • JohnBhoy

        Bill, you accuse me of plagiarism – you are wrong. Prove it. Happy to have an ad hoc and real time discussion on epistemology right now. What do you say? You start the debate. To begin with, explain where my thoughts on empiricism are wrong.

        • Niall Walker

          To be honest John, the irrelevance didn’t help but I too smelled a bit of copying,if it was entirely your own work then good on you, one day you can use it in the right context.

          • JohnBhoy

            No copying on my part.

            You introduced the theory of knowledge, misunderstanding the interplay between empirical and rational philosophies: I merely corrected your school boy error. One day you will understand the difference between intelligent thought and grandstanding.

            • Niall Walker

              Johnbho,

              Do not mistake your poor English comprehension with my knowledge of empiricism and rationalism, your over eagerness to prove me wrong led to a cognitive bias on reading my opening remark. The proof of this is as stated by Bill, your flatulent philosophical ramblings had absolutely nothing to do with the rest of my post, how this never struck you as odd suggests you understood little of what you posted.

              So tell us all how the interplay between Rationalism and Empiricism relates to my post, tell me how interpreting evidence contradicts either.

            • JohnBhoy

              Niall, Bill makes a false accusation and that is proof? You make silly undergraduate sweeping statements as a prelude to further nonsense on your part, no doubt to gain the illusion of academic credibility and when your erroneously naive and pompous views on philosophy are pointed out, you take the huff. You introduced the topic of philosphy and now ask me to explain why you did so! Eco right about you – you do not merit attention.

            • ecojon

              @JohnBhoy

              I doubt in this case that day will ever come. I’m afraid when I come across someone like Niall who uses holocaust denial sites as a reference point and who states that ‘in his eyes’ there is no difference between Nazi concentration camps and internment camps then I know that my time is better spent anywhere than in addressing an obviously damaged person.

              You have trounced him in debate but he is totally incapable of recognising that glaring fact let alone accepting it. There is also the arrogance in that he appears either not to read any responses to him or totally discounts them – a level of arrogance which I have seen lead many into very deep and very hot water.

              His posts are more akin to Greeked copy text which comes in the Latin, of course, although I have never been able to figure that one out. But I’m sure you will recognise what I mean in: ‘Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed luctus laoreet congue. Praesent diam turpis, suscipit quis malesuada quis, sagittis eget magna’.

              What follows is a cut and paste job and I have no problem in admitting that although others, obviously not yourself, might have difficulty with that 🙂

              ‘Contrary to popular belief, Lorem Ipsum is not simply random text. It has roots in a piece of classical Latin literature from 45 BC, making it over 2000 years old. Richard McClintock, a Latin professor at Hampden-Sydney College in Virginia, looked up one of the more obscure Latin words, consectetur, from a Lorem Ipsum passage, and going through the cites of the word in classical literature, discovered the undoubtable source.

              ‘Lorem Ipsum comes from sections 1.10.32 and 1.10.33 of “de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum” (The Extremes of Good and Evil) by Cicero, written in 45 BC. This book is a treatise on the theory of ethics, very popular during the Renaissance’.

      • JohnBhoy

        Bill, where are you? I’m still waiting. Want to apologise for your false accusation?

    • Niall Walker

      Its not your night my friend, and we will let others decide who is the amateur between us, self proclaiming victories area sure sign of weakness.

      So lets cut to the chase, where in my statement do I suggest subjective experience is not still a part of the objective scientific method.?

      Niall: “Prior to the enlightenment knowledge was based on subjective experience, and it kept us ignorant for thousands of years, eventually we replaced this biased process with an objective scientific method…”

      Well that gets rid of the irrelevant rationalism-Empiricist straw man argument, waste of Googling and verbosity.

      Rangers and Celtic fans have two theories on the same evidence, and yet the evidence contradicts both theories, you do not have to be Locke to deduce they are both wrong but you certainly need Cartesian duality to believe one of them is true.

      Knowledge is my strong point, second only to my debating skills.

      At least you are not just firing abuse, so I thank you for your contributions.

      As Colonel Kurtz said ” The HORROR…THE HORROR “.

      • JohnBhoy

        Niall: “where in my statement do I suggest subjective experience is not still a part of the objective scientific method?”

        Here’s where: “eventually we REPLACED [my emphasis] this biased process with an objective scientific method”.

        It is more than a suggestion on your part – you make a clear unambiguous statement. For you to now argue differently is to deny what you wrote.

        • Niall Walker

          Johnbhoy,

          Can you emphasize the ” PROCESS ” ( the subject) rather than REPLACED ( the verb), its standard English comprehension, I think its more important we know what is being replaced, don’t you ?

          So we have: “eventually we replaced this biased PROCESS with an objective scientific method”.”, and this does not infer subjective experience itself is not part of the objective scientific method.

          • Niall Walker

            Read it in full for effect:

            Niall: “Prior to the enlightenment knowledge was based on subjective experience, and it kept us ignorant for thousands of years, eventually we replaced this biased PROCESS with an objective scientific method…”

            We replaced subjective experience as a process, nowhere do I state we replaced subjective experience, I hear the penny dropping.

          • JohnBhoy

            Happy to switch the emphasis. Empiricism is a process. Rationalism is a process. The process of empiricism has not been replaced by the process of rationalism. We haven’t replaced empiricism with anything. We have included another methodological process in our knowledge armoury, but that is not what you write. Keep waffling.

            • Niall Walker

              Johnbhoy,

              If you are suggesting empiricism relies solely on subjective experience and rationalism has no subjective experience then you do not understand anything you posted, its not me who is now drowning.

            • Any chance we could move this on to Hegelian phenomenology as that’s my favourite. It’s a holistic all-rounder although you can easily end up in Dick Cheney land:

              “There are known knowns; there are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns; that is to say, there are things that we now know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns – there are things we do not know we don’t know.”

              I hope that helps clarify things.

            • JohnBhoy

              Niall,

              Once again, when put to the sword you attempt to shift your ground, yet still manage to reveal your ignorance on matters philosophical – quite a trick – not to mention a depressing absence of higher learning skills. Keep digging, your over-inflated head will soon be out of view.

              Can I ask – are you still at school? First year university student? You have been roundly beaten on a number of occasions by my good self but appear to be unaware of your pounding – such blindness normally suggests a person of immaturity and tender years. Hopefully, I have taught you a valuable lesson on questioning pompous assumptions and the importance of rational thought. However, the empirical evidence contained in your posts suggests otherwise. Here endeth the lesson.

  36. @newtz
    Long intro re Chas latest hit single….. Musical change of direction from debut album…….heavier reliance on lyrics…….more artistic license……..more confident. performer………………………………………. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPo5wWmKEaI&feature=youtube_gdata_player ?.
    A wee song for you sweet Charlotte x

  37. It’s not easy making sense of news emanating from Rangers and in particular the companies which own and operate the club. This is largely down to their silence on issues which have hit the public domain in the form of leaks and counter leaks.

    That may change in the coming weeks though quite who the official spokesperson for Rangers is these days is open to debate.

    Naturally there is a great deal of speculation on the source or sources of the leaks.

    Craig Whyte has some well documented history of revealing recorded conversations to the press though it has to be said that we are currently witnessing something different.

    Leaks that have occurred most recently have specifically targeted internet clatterers, presumably on the grounds that they will spread the story far and wide without being too squeamish about the legal implications.

    The source of the leaks remains a mystery as do the aims of those involved.

    Some things surrounding events seem fairly clear.

    Craig Whyte has some ambition to gain from questioning events which in his mind excluded him from the purchase of Rangers assets and the value they contained, when the CVA failed.

    The natural arena for his questions would be a court and if he is to be believed this is where he will raise them, though if I understand things correctly he has chosen an indirect method of doing this.

    Whatever the merits of Craig Whyte’s case the pursuit of it in court looks to be a very expensive and time consuming option with no certainty of success.

    His leaks to the press seam more suited to achieving an early pay off from an adversary who would simply be glad to see the back of him.

    It’s possible to imagine that with all the difficulties and uncertainty Craig Whyte would face in pursuing his claims by legal means they could largely be discounted as a serious threat.

    A perceived pursuit of a settlement could easily be defeated by simply cutting of his air supply.

    Dump everything he has into the public domain with an advisory note – put up or shut up.

  38. Right ….. I want to make it clear right now …… It was NOT me …..

    you know what i’m talking about ………..

    yes ….. the redirection of Craig’s name server ……… Liberty Capital …

    Not Guilty ….

    whoever it was is very naughty ………. and funny !

  39. @Niall Para 36 – “(The Trust) was valuable in incentivising employees in providing larger sums for their and their families’ benefit in view of the tax savings. Mr Black did not consider the Trust as a means of tax avoidance, but rather as a means of retaining and rewarding loyal employees. So far as Rangers was concerned it enabled the Club to attract players who would not otherwise have been obtainable.” (Emphasis added).
    This is lifted from the FTT report . It is the evidence of Mr Black. There are plenty more examples in there that clearly state that it was a mechanism to buy players they could otherwise not afford. By Rangers, and Rangers reps alike.

    • arb urns

      Top man B……….. Niall think before you try deflecting this maybe have a word with cam or adam in the bunker and this time just admit you are wrong before adding to this latest aNIALLation.

      Also :

      here’s another cock up you’ve just made…”rangers will be guilty of unfair advantage, if they are found guilty”……… The DOS Scheme !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Niall Walker

        arb,

        You have been in the jungle too long, calm down.

        I asked for proof that Rangers could not have afforded the players without EBT’s, and this proof has been provided. As I stated if Rangers lose the BTC then in my opinion this makes the advantage they gained ” unfair “. In my opinion this amounts to cheating and Rangers should be stripped of all titles won using EBT’s, its quite simple.

        If Rangers win the BTC then its not cheating.

        • arb urns

          more deflection u didnt say that but hey cant help u anymore………trawl thru again if u want …. in old snail mail terms am sitting in the smallest room in the house with your post infront of me soon it will be behind me…

          take care

  40. charliedon

    @Niall
    We had a discussion earlier.

    Niall Walker
    May 19, 2013 at 6:21 pm
    charliedon,

    You must prove Rangers could not have afforded the players without EBTs and it is simply impossible, nothing disingenuous about it. You are claiming an unfair advantage and that requires proof. Can you state as a fact that Rangers could not have put up ticket prices to cover the amount or that SDM could not afford to write a cheque ?

    Reply
    charliedon
    May 19, 2013 at 9:53 pm
    @Niall
    I’m afraid I’ve lost you. I never claimed Rangers gained an unfair advantage. I simply pointed that by not paying tax on the amount paid to the players via the EBTs they would have had more money to spend on players. Is that not correct?

    To return to this, I’ll grant that your argument is inventive, but it’s also contrived. All this waffle about proving negatives etc is just spurious and a defection. It is entirely unnecessary to prove that Rangers could have raised the money in other ways. If we accept they provided themselves with more money to employ players by avoiding the tax on the EBT payments then that is that.

    Take an analogy. A cyclist takes performing enhancing drugs, wins a race and is found out. Using your reasoning, he could produce the following defence. “Ok I took the drugs and improved my performance but I could have equally have improved my performance to the same level if I had trained harder. Prove I couldn’t have.”

    This is patently nonsense. The proving of the actual act of wrongdoing is sufficient to prove the guilt.

    • charliedon

      defection = deflection

      • Raymilland

        @charliedon

        I think that Niall may have suffered concussion in the past; he is another David Brent; some of Niall’s arguments are certainly a joke. His condition may be permanent.

        • Niall Walker

          Ray,

          Prove what you say, if I am such a joke then what does that make those who cannot rebut my posts but resort to juvenile attacks.

    • Niall Walker

      charliedon,

      I have already stated above since Rangers have admitted they could not afford the players then if they lose the BTC, they have gained and unfair advantage and the titles must be stripped and awarded to East Fife.

      On my rather ingenious argument, your analogy is a false one, try this beauty.

      If I steal £10 from you, go the bookies and put a £10 bet which wins.

      You are entitled to accuse me of theft but you are not entitled to say my winnings are the dishonest proceeds of this theft, to do so you would have to prove I did not have £10 of my own.

      I must be genius.

      • charliedon

        @Niall
        Blimey Niall, your arguments are getting more obscure by the hour!
        I completely fail to see the relevance of your first paragraph to our discussion.

        You say my analogy is a false one, but fail to even attempt to explain why. Personally, I think my analogy is a beauty and hits the nail on the head.

        Your analogy is very poor indeed and has no relevance whatsoever to our discussion. You steal £10 off me, it is crime, you are guilty. End of. Whether you won money with my £10 or what you did with your winnings, is nothing to do with me and is completely irrelevant. Why on earth and for what purpose would I have to prove you didn’t have £10 of your own?
        The only reason I can think your type of analogy would be relevant would be if we were engaged in some kind of sporting contest and you stole my money to help you beat me. Then indeed it would be relevant.

        I think you’re just trying to tie people in knots with your contrived arguments and skewed logic. But I think you’ve lost the plot on this one.

      • Raymilland

        @Niall Walker

        Lie down in a dark room and gie yersel a rest.

  41. Niall Walker

    Johnbhoy….ahem…tap…tap…tap,

    ” Once again, when put to the sword you attempt to shift your ground, yet still manage to reveal your ignorance on matters philosophical .”

    There is no lesson being taught here, it is simply you claiming you have won, try and focus on the issue. I ask you again since when did empiricism consist solely of subjective experience, what experimentation was involved in deducing the sun revolved around the earth, you are now stating this was an empirical observation, and I repeat what has empiricism got to do with my post ?

    Throw this poor chap a life vest before he sinks to the bottom where he feeds.

    ,

    • arb urns

      outstanding replies Niall to Barca, me and charliedon above……………….

    • JohnBhoy

      @Niall Brent

      Ok, I’ll help you out this once. Next time I expect you to stand on your own two feet.

      In the first instance, you ask: “what has empiricism to do with my post?” You were the one who grandly announced the theory of knowledge, erroneously as it happens. You also falsely claimed that rational thought replaced “subjective experience”. The latter is known as empiricism. This is very basic stuff. Now for the next part of the lesson…

      Empiricists argue that the knowledge that counts comes through experience and that it is through our senses that we acquire this knowledge. Our senses include: touch, sight, smell, taste, hearing. Thought is not a sense. Empiricists do have difficulty explaining abstract mathematical thought not based on experience, but that is their problem, not mine. Rationalists argue differently. They believe that our senses sometimes deceive us and cannot be trusted, and therefore turn to rational thought as the way to acquire lasting knowledge. Hence Descartes’ famous line “je pense, donc je suis” or, in the more familiar Latin: “cogito ergo sum”.

      You confuse the necessary interplay between rationalism and empiricism as an argument that empiricism contains rationalism and vice versa. You are wrong. They are different schools of philosophical thought that place different emphasis on knowledge acquisition. The fact that both are used to interact with the world is not proof that one is a subset of another or one contain aspects of the other. Neither the empiricist nor the rationalist deny that we use our senses and that we also “think” – though you may be an exception to the latter – but they would disagree with you that empiricism contains an element of rationalism and vice versa. Penny dropping?

      May I recommend Bryan Magee’s excellent book “Men of Ideas” as a beginner’s guide to philosophy. After a few years you can have a go at two wonderful primary sources: John Locke’s “An Essay Concerning Himan Understanding, followed by Rene Descartes’ masterpiece “Medicationes de Prima Philosphia”.

      Niall Brent lol. Sums you up.

      • Niall Walker

        Johnbhoy,

        ” You also falsely claimed that rational thought replaced “subjective experience”. The latter is known as empiricism. This is very basic stuff. Now for the next part of the lesson…”

        Excuse me young chap, I never falsely claimed rational thought replaced subjective experience, that is what you are claiming I said and I have proven you wrong, repeating your schoolboy error does not make it anymore true.

        And you are incorrect in stating empiricism equates to nothing but subjective experience, you are talking utter tripe.

        ” Empiricism in the philosophy of science emphasizes evidence, especially as discovered in experiments. It is a fundamental part of the scientific method that all hypotheses and theories must be tested against observations of the natural world rather than resting solely on a priori reasoning, intuition, or revelation.”

        So now we have got all the straw man arguments and red herrings out the way, kindly explain the relevance of empiricism to rationalism in my post on EVIDENCE.

        • Niall Walker

          Johnboy, just to help you out, here is what we are supposed to be discussing, I find your spurious lecture on basic philosophy so irrelevant it is nonsensical:

          ” In science, knowledge is not absolute but a ratio of evidential probability, even an evidence based fact is subject to this provision, a ” ratio “nal person believes what is probably true based on the quality and quantity of evidence that supports it.”

          ” Prior to the enlightenment knowledge was based on subjective experience, and it kept us ignorant for thousands of years, eventually we replaced this biased process with an objective scientific method, and it works most of the time.”

          Now I am discussing how we use evidence to establish knowledge, what in God’s name does both rationalism versus empiricism have to do with this since both involve evidence ?

          There was no experiment carried out to support the earth was flat, the evidence was our eyes, a subjective experience unsupported by experiment, but you call this empiricism.

          Utter Tosh.

          • Paul

            Niall if you run a company and your competitors can pay better wages how do you attract those top employees?
            (A) Pay the employee a higher rate of pay, (which you actually cannot afford), than the competitors knowing this will exceed your means and lead to borrowing and difficulties?
            (B) Pay the employee a reasonable rate slightly lower and offer a tax incentive called a loan never to be returned knowing it will boost the wage you could never afford, to a higher rate than your competitors, as no tax is payable on said loan.
            what do you think the player would choose taking into account the wages offered by your competition would incurr high tax deductions?

  42. Niall Walker

    Good morning Charliedon, Ray and Paul,

    Things have gone a bit quiet so I will continue this discussion ad nauseam.

    Using your drug analogy, a drug is only banned in sport if it enhances performance, therefore it is the enhanced performance that causes the unfair advantage.
    The claim is EBTs gave Rangers an unfair enhanced performance advantage, so if Rangers had a heap of cash but still used EBTs then no advantage exists, in other words its like taking a drug that has no performance enhancing properties.

    The fact the drug is then declared illegal for some non-performance enhancing reason cannot result in the performance being declared unfair.

    However if Rangers admit it was performance enhancement due to lack of funding then it becomes unfair.

    • Niall Walker

      replace last word ” unfair ” with ” an advantage “.

      However if Rangers admit it was performance enhancement due to lack of funding then it becomes an advantage. “

  43. Niall Walker

    ….continued.

    The burden of proof in this case using the drug analogy must be on the one claiming unfair advantage, the drug must be proven to give an unfair advantage and its not up to the person to prove it does not.

    It is logical to assume this proof must involve proving Rangers could not have afforded the players which would have been impossible.

    However Rangers have seemingly admitted they could not have afforded the players and therefore admit to an advantage, if it is declared illegal then it becomes an unfair advantage.

  44. D'Artagnan

    I wonder what that same code of conduct says about the conduct which led to this..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/bbc-apologise-over-ally-mccoist-clip-2326253.html

    However I doubt you will find it covers the receiving and retaining of stolen property alluded to by Lord Nimmo Smith in his report.

    [98] Meanwhile, BBC Scotland came, by unknown means, into possession of what they described as “dozens of secret emails, letters and documents”, which we understand were the productions before the Tax Tribunal. These formed the basis of a programme entitled “Rangers – The Men Who Sold the Jerseys”, which was broadcast on 23 May 2012. BBC Scotland also published copious material on its website. The published material included a table containing the names of Rangers players, coaches and staff who were beneficiaries of the MGMRT, and how much they received through that trust. It also listed the names of people where the BBC had seen evidence that they received side-letters. This event appears to have been the trigger for more activity in response to the SPL’s request.

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