I wrote yesterday about Mr Green revealing that “Rangers” will make a loss this year. As I mentioned, his comments on the official Rangers website raised a couple of queries regarding (a) the correctness of the information given on the website and (b) the obligations of the Chief Executive of a quoted public limited company when telling people about potential profits and losses. I addressed the first point in my last post.
A quick reminder of the relevant extracts from the article:-
CHARLES GREEN has detailed how he plans to turn Rangers from a loss-making company into a profitable one over the next year.
As per projections in the prospectus made available to potential investors late last year, the 2012/13 campaign is seeing money being lost by the Light Blues.
Green said: “The company is currently trading at a loss and the reason for that is our income is halved from coming out of the SPL and Europe and going into the Third Division.
“Typically, Rangers would be close to a £60million turnover per year and we’re down to below £30million now.
“It’s not an overnight thing. All of those things will take a year or two but the losses are a one-year thing and they won’t be here next year. We’ll grow and grow thereafter.”
As I said, the article does not confirm precisely which “company” he is referring to. Reference to the prospectus might suggest he is speaking about the company which was the subject of the prospectus, namely Rangers International Football Club PLC.
As I commented, the Prospectus does not seem to contain a projection of a loss, nor does it have a projection of a £30 million turnover (at least to my eyes).
Why is any of this important?
The status of RIFC PLC as a quoted public limited company is what makes this important.
One of the fundamental rules regarding quoted companies in the UK is that there has to be a clear communication of information to shareholders and potential shareholders, so that, at all times, the market is fair. Market sensitive information requires to be publicised in particular ways, including by formal announcement.
It is unwise at best for a CEO of a PLC to talk in concrete terms about matters which could affect the company’s share price, if no formal announcement is being made.
I should say that I am NOT accusing Mr Green of breaking the rules. However, I wonder if, inadvertently of course, he might have erred in the article referred to above.
As you will recall, RIFC PLC is listed on the AIM section of the London Stock Exchange.
There is no requirement under the Prospectus Rules for a newly floating company, as RIFC PLC was, to give profit and loss projections. These might be especially difficult where the company is a new one (even although it was buying a slightly older company which had acquired the assets of a 140 year old football team).
The Rules for Companies on the AIM can be found here.
The most relevant for this purpose are contained in paragraphs 10, 11 and 17. The relevant parts read as follows:-
Principles of disclosure
10. The information which is required by these rules must be notified by the AIM company no later than it is published elsewhere. An AIM company must retain a Regulatory Information Service provider to ensure that information can be notified as and when required.
An AIM company must take reasonable care to ensure that any information it notifies is not misleading, false or deceptive and does not omit anything likely to affect the import of such information.
It will be presumed that information notified to a Regulatory Information Service is required by these rules or other legal or regulatory requirement, unless otherwise designated.
General disclosure of price sensitive information
11. An AIM company must issue notification without delay of any new developments which
are not public knowledge concerning a change in:
…
♦ its expectation of its performance, which, if made public, would be likely to lead to a substantial movement in the price of its AIM securities.
Disclosure of miscellaneous information
17. An AIM company must issue notification without delay of:
…
♦ any material change between its actual trading performance or financial condition and any profit forecast, estimate or projection included in the admission document or otherwise made public on its behalf;
The Rangers information service does not disclose any announcements about anticipated profits.
Strictly, I suppose, the fact that there has not been a projection or forecast means that there is no change from any previous forecast.
However, a Q&A with fans, some of whom might be investors, or an article on the club website, do not quite meet the needs of Rule 10.
If, until now, there have been no forecasts, then it is presumably of some importance for the share price that the company will not be profitable this year, on an income of £30 million.
A challenge for many entrepreneurs who take companies to the stock market is to restrain their natural buccaneering spirit. In a private limited company the owner can say effectively whatever he wants about plans, forecasts and strategies.
Once he heads up a PLC however, there is a need to obey the rules, to avoid being seen as having influenced the market inappropriately. Businessmen such as Rupert Murdoch, Stelios Haji-Ioannou and Richard Branson have fallen foul of the rules and structures imposed on PLCs and their owners and executives.
It explains why the CEO’s of major UK companies are generally interviewed after announcements of profits, acquisitions and disposals, rather than before them.
Does this matter? It depends why the shareholders bought shares. The institutional investors did so to make money – was this to earn profits via dividends, or to take profits by selling the shares at a suitable juncture?
Either way, a “forecast” of a £30 million turnover and, despite this, a loss seems information of interest to an investor or possible shareholder.
I am sure that Mr Green would be able to confirm that he was not referring to the PLC in his comments, or that he had already disclosed this information in the prospectus, or that it did not amount to a “forecast”.
I do not imagine that he will face any action for what, if a breach, was clearly inadvertent. However, as the PLC Board only has two executive members, Mr Green and Mr Stockbridge, there are not many candidates for making public pronouncements to do with the business. The Non-Executive Directors’ responsibilities generally do not extend to being spokesmen for the company.
Should Mr Green be “gagged” to avoid him being too outspoken, then it would be a sad day for the Scottish press, as a most quotable chap would be silenced.
Posted by Paul McConville
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
This really is obsession. For goodness sake wait and see what happens rather than speculate.
@VC
Seems you misunderstand the nature and purpose of a “blog” and this specific blog, but then no surprise really.
@michaelk1888
If Churchill had adopted @Violet’s philosophy – “For goodness sake wait and see” – we’d all be eating sauerkraut for breakfast and Adam would get to wear his lederhosen in public.
@JohnBhoy
Adam von Trapp ?
Well the IRA certainly looked to build a relationship with Hitler & his Nazi scum. But I suspect that fact won’t be tolerated on a biased agenda forum..
SweepSweep
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1359872/IRA-plotted-with-Nazis-to-invade-Northern-Ireland.html
Goosey what has that got to do with this debate?
If you are only on here to make stupid links about stuff everybody already knows then go away
Are you robert smiff in disguise?
It looks like it has…yes, any lesson to be learned from history should be fully exposed – let’s not forget either the much vaunted ‘Billy Boys’ of the Ibrox legions who were given medals by the government for strike-breaking against the working classes of Clydeside in 1926 and who would go on to give their support to Oswald Moseley’s fascist blackshirts…
…or indeed that the reigning British monarch’s cousins were fully active within the poisonous Nazi machine…Prince Christoph of Hess for example who was head of Herman Goering’s intelligence services and a major in the Luftwaffe – raining fire on Coventry and Clydebank, then there was cousin Prince Charles Edward who was at the forefront of Hitler’s enforced euthenasia programme – just as many ‘blue bloods’ here in Blighty were under house arrest during wartime due to their Nazi sympathies – the problem Goosey with cherry-picking bits of history to suit a small-minded agenda is that it usually comes back to throw some inconsistency at you.
WTF. I’d said your last comment was inane and boring, fair play this one was insane and so surreal given the context that I nearly sprayed by beer all over the iPad (not magners, thats a summer drinks only)
Keep taking that Prozac.
An MI5 memo? I’m sure its as accurate as the one stating Iraq had WMDs.
It appears only Charles Green and Sevco are allowed to speculate LOL
That’s what Rangers fans and the governing bodies have been doing for 10 years, how has that worked out by the way?
Hmmmm,the option of clicking on the link to the AIM rules clashed with my curiosity on the outcome of taking a soldering iron to a pesky little verruca on my heel.
Apocafeckinalypse Now! i should have read the AIM rules.I hate the smell of burning flesh in the morning.
I vote not to gag Chico.Otherwise this place would be like the top tier at Parkhead on a match day.
@cam
Seconded.
Not had as much fun for ages.
@Clarkeng
Us too! And the hits keep on coming.
LNS domani. Non vedo l’ ora….. That’s Italian for
Haud me back. 🙂
@Maggie
But where were you yesterday after the match Maggie?
Anyway I love it when you parliamo Italiano.
Its such a romantic language.
And I had to give up on the touche eclat as well – too much laughing through the tears.
Never mind you have Turin to look forward to.
I just hope the hangover of the black and white strip thing doesnt spoil it too much for you.
Try and find a nice Barolo or Barbera to comfort yourself with.
It will make the trip seem worthwhile.
@Clarkeng
Unlike you guys,I have a life 🙂
Obviously I was disappointed that Celtic lost,
but I’m genuinely delighted for St Mirren.
Sometimes thems the breaks Clark, and we got
one against Barca,so well done “The Buddies”
I did enjoy a glass of Amarone post match tho’
because I’m worth it 🙂
@Maggie
Excellent choice and you certainly are.
I watched the game and enjoyed it – not just because of the result although I did rub it in afterwards.
I can be a devil sometimes.
@Maggie
Just to throw a wee Spanna in the works ( although I supect you will like that just as much as your Amarone ) you might be advised to put a few quid on Juve to go through.
It will certainly soften the blow as Turin can be very expensive.
Playing at Hampden is a dream for most Clubs. Sevco included.
Maggie,like the rest of the sore losers was in hiding.At least she recognised that its best to lie low till the pain has ebbed.
A nice Buddies tribute from Budweiser would be fitting,but i think he may be up at the Mitchell library looking for proof that Rudolf Hess was headed for Ibrox.
Oh dear,Violet.You have broken an unspoken commandment.The Golden Army of Eco’s will be awoken and a volley of TD’s are heading your way.
How do you feel about Tynecasle being turned into a giant sauna if the Scandanavian interest comes to fruition?
@cam & violet
I have given a TU just for Violet’s sentiment.
We know that the hordes of the great unwashed on here will deluge any from of disagreement with a small minded TD but its not exactly a reasoned argument. It basically just confirms what we all know.
Yes, yes Paul – but you keep referring to rules and regulations, doing things by the book, being accountable . . . principles even.
These do not generally apply to the club/business/holding company/whatever in question.
Again more madness.
Your claims prior to the announcement of FTT were proven inconsequential. Once more your points above are nonsense & amount to “could be’s”; “might be’s” & “I really hope it will be’s because I support Celtic & I therefore hate Rangers”..
It’s pathetic in a grown man really.
Much like your RTC … Your going to still end up very unhappy & whining away about yet another conspiracy theory.
Ah the joys of being a bigoted Internet blogger eh?..
@TheBlackGoosey
Still here – you must love this site. See it’s just your usual bilge with no actual facts. What a sad life you must have coming to a site you hate peopled by ordinary football fans that you don’t have the ability to converse with.
You actually sound like a PR employee who is being paid to come amongst us. If I was your boss I would replace you because you are merely a joke but keep up the good work as you provide an early laugh every day and a wake-up call to me as to why we can’t leave the fate of Scottish football in the hands of people like you who have no interest in any team other than your own.
@ecojon
Why do they ALWAYS reach for the B word when
out reasoned….. Oh well Chico made it his first port of call,
and Chico is the veritable sage of Sevo.
@eco
….sage of Sevco.
@Maggie
Ah but does it have the French meaning?
Nah! AngloSaxon terminology for me
@ TheBlackGoosey
Your feelings towards Celtic would be what, exactly?
@Althetim
Don’t think they like us Al,just a feeling,could be
wrong tho’,don’t quote me on it 🙂
I don’t have any feelings re Celtic at all. Like all right minded people I deplore sectarians & bigots. There appear to be a few on here.. eh Maggie?
I find your “interest” in all things Rangers amusing. The lies & hatred posted about my Club less so.
A number of people on here labour under the misaprehension that bias, bile & jealousy equates with intellect. It doesn’t am afraid. Your own club have their past & current demeanours to deal with. Mayhap your energies might be better used in writing tedious blogs about your own club problems past & present?
Cue the hatred … 🙂
@The Black Goosey
I actually take exception to you calling me a bigot.
If you actually knew me you’d know that I despise all
forms of bigotry,sectarian,racial,homophobic etc,but I reserve
my special ire for bullying and bullies,who are cowards who
belittle,humiliate and denigrate others when they don’t get
their own way, or their opinions are systematically demolished
by more rational thinkers.
You appear to be a relative newcomer to this site and do
seem overly fond of using the bigot word as your default
position when told unpalatable truths.Then again when your
CEO,uses it as an excuse for where your team finds itself,
then obviously you deluded follow, followers feel justified
in making it your defence of choice.
I like to think that I have a good relationship with all posters
on here,certainly I enjoy a “bit of sport” at the expense of
cam,Clarkeng and other Rangers’ supporters,but I like to
think if I met any of the “bears” on here,that they’d like me
and I’d like them,judging from the banter.
I must admit that I AM overly fond of irony,and am particularly
fond of irony at the expense of Mr Green(but who isn’t).Maybe you don’t quite understand the difference between irony and bigotry.
There is a big book called a dictionary available at most good bookshop,you can even find one online.
I’d advise you to avail yourself of either and check the meaning
of both words.
Once you’re confident that you know the difference,please
furnish me with evidence of my bigotry.
You may also like to note while doing your research on my postings,
that I also refrain from using bad language ( bloody,hell & bugger)
excepted as I try not to type anything I wouldn’t say to someone’s
face.I have no problem when the guys resort to the odd word or
abbreviation for effect however,but as I would NEVER use a racial,
sectarian or homophobic epithet in real life I would certainly never
use it under cover of anonymity on a blog,that is not who I am,
sorry to disappoint.
Doesn’t dissapoint me at all! Do try to keep up! Its obvious that reading & understanding is not your strongpoint. I asked you a question. Did not make an accusation. The only accusation I would throw your way is that you don’t have any balance in your comments & that you get a tad irate & abusive with someone who doesn’t share your biased views.
Yellow ducky
At which point did the lady get abusive?
Are you sure your not robert smiff??
Your iPad’s doing it again Maggie.Don’t hit the screen to hard when upset and don’t fret about being labelled a bigot,,,,Eco does it all the time.
@Steven Brennan
I thought he had more that a tad of Adam about him,
tho Robert S works too.
I see reading and understanding not my strong point,so
I’d better go work on that,now where’s my copy of War and Peace
to be getting on with 🙂
TheBlackGoosey is a Rangers fan with no feelings re Celtic at all.
That would be no feelings whatsoever for the greatest rival his/her own club used to have prior to it’s demise. Seriously? Not even a mild dislike?
A century old rivalry more often than not described as “bitter” and yet our friend here is indifferent.
I’m impressed. In my experience you are unique. Congratulations.
As a matter of interest, what past & current demeanours are you referring to TBG?
The Pathetic diatribe eminates from you BG. Your loosely covered nom de plum is not that good and obvious for all to see.
Paul has correctly challenged the comments made by the CEO of a plc and the cause and effects that these can have. Something the MSM are incapable of. The only conspiracies are those established by the recent and past management/custodians of rangers football club. The CEo has a history of delivering inaccurate statements that go unchallenged by the MSM. We are simply challenging these statements and enquiring as to the foundation or worth of the regular statements as the rest of Scottish football is subsequently tarnished with the same brush.
The most recent statement issued by the RM is an example of could be, might be, I really hope it will be, because I support r8ngers. The content of your recent posts and the equally disgusting statement issued on the RM apparently from someone who now undertakes the roll of RM thuggery and implied threatening behaviour supported by a healthy bigotry aimed at the “small majority” who the writer is too afraid to name. Maybe he/you should grow some balls and at the same time brain matter.
The inaccuracies of the statement are astounding and the implied threat and rabble rousing are only what Scotland has now come to expect from so called professional and responsible individuals and the club they represent.
The person who issued the statement should be ashamed and the people supporting him including the club brought to book for the disrepute for the content of statement, but the SFA will as usual do nothing, prefering to slap down just and true individuals for speaking and relating the truth, (Kenny Sheilds), something saddly missing down govan way.
2 points for getting the word “diatribe” into a sentence. Your still fooling no one with your biased hatred though
I do believe that the FTT verdict is under appeal. If HMRC win the appeal at the Upper Tribunal then a legal precedent is set. Had they won the FTT it wouldn’t have. It was in their interest to lose in a way. Rangers (IL) were guilty as sin and you know it.
@Andrew Woods
Where do you get this belief from?
Suggest you check your facts before posting.
HMRC announced that they would be seeking permission to appeal after the verdict was made public.
However there is no record of them having done so nor of them being granted leave to do so.
More wishful thinking.
It is actually becoming paranoic on here.
Pedro 1888 you could make fortune analysing the hordes on here and sorting out there psychiatric problems.
I bet you it all goes back to their childhood and somewhere in there will be feelings of inadequacy.
And probably they were bullied by a Rangers supporter or their burds were stolen away by one.
Trust me it will be someting trivial that they’ve just not been able to let go.
Job done – just send the money on.
Dr,why do i associate the colour green with urine? and does this explain why Chico makes me wet myself when he noises up the Tic lads?
This one doesn’t require much analysis, you’re a bigot and a troll simples.
@Clarkeng
…… Bullied by a Rangers’ supporter…..
Rangers! Bullying! NEVER.
“Who are these people”who say such things?
“Where do they live?”
“What are their names?” Give us the information
so we can add them to the ever lengthening lists of
those who will be dealt with come the glorious day….
@Maggie
Lovely as you are Maggie there are some secrets which you can never become privy to.
No not because you support CFC or perhaps might be RC.
It is simply because you are a woman.
So even though these secrets are not at all secret and can be read about freely on the net and in the bible I regret I would be unable to divulge.
And when it comes to that glorious day just have a wee thought – after what the Romans done to his boy – God might actually be a bluenose.
Dont worry just stand beside me I will see you’re allright.
@Clarkeng,
After what the Roman’s DID to his boy…..
I’ll give you that one Clark,mildly amusing.
Thought I’d better correct that wee grammar error there before
cam comes for you all guns blazing 🙂
Clargeng
As much as I love you dearly as a brother in the Lord I fear you need to read your bible more attentively.
“Suggest you check your facts before posting.”
I am having visions of glass houses and big rocks. I think God may have been a bit pale actually rather than any specific colour after witnessing the terrible events you refer to. If only it could have stayed that way.
Before you accuse me of hiding, I have been smitten by the flu bug for the last few days and though the Beechams helped somewhat, that St. Mirren fellow betrayed me terribly yesterday. I would hate you to think, because all my war wounds are in my rear end, that I run from a battle. If you do, then “NUTS”!
I am just having a quick flick while checking emails (yes I do get some), by the way, so apologies in advance if I do not join in the current “banter”. Once done it is back to drink and antivirals. During my indefinite absence I appeal to you and cam to stick to the wooden spoon to avoid incensing TBG’s “biggots”. Can I enquire of Violet C how she still has snowballs to throw when there has been a full thaw? You weren’t sneakily saving some in the freezer were you? No room for the ice pack then when you get somewhat overheated.
As for my fellow “disappointed” out there, please refrain from putting the boot in just because everything went wrong yesterday. Maggie, for heavens sake stick to the wine. If you need some better quality, you of all of us should have a good contact who can work miracles with water. Even better if you have marriage in mind :). Oops, Maggie, that was Mary, wasn’t it? Ecojon, Michaelk1888, Johnbhoy, barca et all, you stick to your guns but please do not use them.
To go back to Clarkeng’s reference book, methinks the day of judgement could well be nigh and I have a feeling my flu may be miraculously cured by the outcome. I wonder who will be on my right hand and who on the left? May I say, it is simply bliss in the middle 🙂
HMRC have never been turned down regarding an appeal. (Ever) Better keep your nappy on.
@ Andrew Woods
You’d better contact Pedro 1888 for analysis.
If you dont know dont say.
And you dont know.
What you have just said is absolute pish.
Analysis ? Why don’t you and your 500 million followers (Mr Charles) go and get some treatment for bereavement therapy. It will help you get over the denial hurdle.
@Maggie
Any correction you wish to administer will be gratefully received.
Thank you for not washing your hands of me.
And just so we are totally correct it was a grammatical error.
I must speak to my script writer – yes apparently I have one.
Have just returned home from work with a wee kerry oot – 3 bottle of Montepulciano so if you see my post going even further down hill you will know why.
With all the hostility on here its no wonder I take a wee drink!!
@pensionerbhoy
Pb good to have you back and I hope your medicinal therapy works soon.
Sorry cant turn the clock back but the Saints did hump you.
And I am not suggesting that this was anyything to do with the Romans treatment of His boy.
I suppose this is a bit like the battle of the bulge in that we are surrounded by hostile forces ( I am thinking about Bastogne ).
As I hope you realise a large portion of my response is targeting the nonsensical posting on here.
I know the Romans never done it ( or did it ), I am very well aware that it was the Jews themselves who crucified our Lord.
However where does the guilt really lie.
Is it with those who did not know that the posts were ridiculous.
Or with those who knew they were yet promulgated them.
Get well soon Pb.
@Pensionerbhoy
Ah! there you are auld yin :-). Was wondering where you
were today,sorry to hear you’ve been laid low with the old
“man flu”….but you’re a trooper,you’ll see it off.
We’ll do our best to laugh you back to full health.
You have worked it all out. A decade of paying into a corrupt League has absolutely nothing to do with the outrage shown by supporters across Scotland. Nothing to see here.
I see auld LucyGoosey is going to save sevco. There`s a first time for anything where sevco`s concerned Lucy.
@TheBlackGoosey
Who states: ‘Ah the joys of being a bigoted Internet blogger eh?’
Well you should know in spite of your protestations au contraire.
I don’t write blogs full of unsubstantiated myths such as yourself. You have a biased agenda about my club & have posted a number of lies about the share issue; the FTT & our fans. Thus I comment.
For example someone in here posted Celtic had taken in 55k FULL season tickets this year!!!
Not for me to comment on that “story”.. Ill leave it to yourself to state the truth…
Red red robin
You are delusional again if you think only celtic supporters write on this site.
I thought ” no- one liked you and you dont care?
Or is that another unsubstantiated lie?
Are you sure your not robert smiff?
Shall I add “illiterate” to your list of inadequacies? Read the post in context. Then try a little harder to be witty. Please.
Oh, dull again! Where’s the crazy accusations gone, who was that man in the hooped shirt on the grassy knoll? Why do you never see Peter Lawell and darth vader in the same photo?
Come on you can do better than that
What I think interesting is that Green states “Typically, Rangers would be close to a £60million turnover per year and we’re down to below £30million now.” – now using audited accounts is diffilcult, because obviously OldRangers spent a couple of years ducking those, so let’s look at 2009 and 2010.
Turnover in 2010 was indeed close to £60m, but that included particpation in the lucrative Champions League group stages. The previous year Oldco Rangers Turnover was only £39.7m. So is Green making the oft-repeated mistake of budgeting for Champions League Group Stage revenue?
In the year OldCo turned over £40m they made a loss £17.3m, in 2010 with an additional £20m revenue they made a profit of £5m. Given that the team at the time had a wage bill of some £30m (not including ahem, tax efficient offshore trusts) lost 3 leagues in a row, not qualifying for the Champs League, does Green really expect his team with a wage bill of 30%turnover (ah but which turnover? £40m or £60m?) will qualify “typically”?
The mask slips a little more I feel….
Was going to post similar.
Hope you don’t mind me posting this Paul…
Football finances – Rangers Income to 2010
@dirtymac
Found the link very interesting.
I think you put your finger right on the problem Paul and it is the MSM.
No matter what chuckie states there is never ever that I can see any pertinent question raised as to the content of the utterances which often to me, as a mere onlooker, seem to be very contradictory. I often feel that a few simple questions could establish the facts for the readership or vierwers.
But it never seems to be done and before we know it there is a fresh shower of shooting stars and moonbeams which must be comprised of anti-matter as they appear to throw no light on the proceedings.
I do know if I was an investor in Rangers International I would want to know exactly what the net amount raised from the flotation is and where it has gone and which company it resides in. I would think most shareholers would probably believe that approx £20m net was raised and yet it appears that 300 leading Rangers fans were informed at Ibrox when they met with chucky, to discuss stadium renaming, that there was only £10 million from the flotation.
So I say again. How much was raised and which company or companies has it gone to and what has been spent. Was any spent to repay the amount invested by the original investors many of whom appear to be mysterious and based offshore?
The simple truth re the MSM, is that they are simply not qualified or interested enough to ask questions. Never have been, never will! Anything, no matter how bizarre or outlandish (in fact more so the better), will find its way into print. That is why I support the motion brought forward by George Galloway, and hope it gets “airtime”, whereby “proper journos and analysts will put forth questions expecting real answers. This scandal has to break free of the confines of Scotland and put to a wider audience for scrutiny! On another point ecojon, if sevco have a $30m turnover, but still running at a loss, What is it being spent on or channelled into.? Sevco may have the league beyond the reach of competitors soon and attendances will probably fall off. A battering by Dun U will see them out of the cup. I don’t see tthey will have a lot to look forward to.
Having lived a long a varied life meeting people of all creeds and colours who join with me in my love of Celtic and making money from my share portfolio i must say that having Chico making these inflammatory statements could result in a breakdown of civil order.
I have lifelong friends who are terrified to surf the internet just in case they are confronted by Chico’s rants.
It really needs the authorities to step in and bring this man to book.I appeal to the decent Bears out there to consider a coup to rescue their club.
I was of the opinion that for the good of Scottish football we needed RFC IL plc,com@ deidzombie.org(inserts smiley) but now i’m changing my mind,,,again.
The wonderful sporting ethos of my beloved Celtic is being sullied by the continuing existence of these rampaging hordes and IMHO it would be better if they left these shores to join a Viking league.
Paul has asked me to do a guest post on Vikings,Chico and the Masonic connection.I should post it later after i have Pauls shoes polished.
Your smiley friend
Eco
Cam, as a celtic fan I really quite enjoyed your comment. To some degree I agree with you, there seems to be a continual carping at your team. Mind you Chicko does make himself an easy target…
For me this is now just good fun. I don’t expect anything to come of it, but thoroughly enjoy the comments flying each way. Long may it last.
@thenamesGerard
I don’t think there is much carping about the team as such but more a concentration on the off-field performance of the management and that of the Scottish football authorities and all the issues flowing mainly from the disturbing financial affairs of Rangers and the knock-on affect on other areas of Scottish football.
Ecojon, while I agree there are unresolved issues, for me the horse left the stable some time ago and no amount of wishfull thinking or in depth analysis of current or historical information will bring it back. I am afraid they have have got off with (most of) it. However the last year will always be a blight on whatever the Rangers are today and on their future, as they chose not to make a clean break of it. Scottish football has suffered in fact and in reputation and the authorities have come out of it poorly. However as far as I can see the same folk are still in post and danger to them is heading off as fast as the horse I mentioned earlier on.
Dissapointed as I was at the outcome, I refuse to continue to get hett up over this issue any more. By all means keep picking away, I enjoy reading the posts and gain a good deal of knowledge and understanding from them.
First post on here that is well written, balanced & doesn’t have a biased agenda. Well said.
@TheBlackGoosey
Thank you for confirming everything I have said and thought about your offerings on here. What a numpty 🙂
@thenamesGerard
Don’t you worry about me getting het-up. There are important things happening in the world and Rangers doesn’t rate a blip on the radar for me. But I do worry about the damage they are capable of doing to Scottish football so I will soldier on 🙂
@thenameisGerard
Yes they have gotten off with most of it.Everything they perceive
as punishment is,in actuality,the consequences of their self inflicted
implosion.That is the very reason for so many on here keeping the
issue alive,by analysing all new emanations from Ibrox,so that
when the fat lady sings,no stone remains unturned ( sorry for the
cliche overload there)
For myself,I am only interested in seeing justice done,not
primarily because it’s Rangers,though “I won’t lie to you,I’m loving it”
as Ally Mc Coist said when Celtic were having their troubles pre
Fergus,but because of their sheer hubris and mountains of debt that
Old co walked away from.The Big Hoose must stay open at all costs.
Too bad if you’re out of pocket,only you little people pay taxes.
Those rules don’t apply to RA PEEPUL. Also the SFA rules of
player registration don’t apply to Rangers’ …..What rules do they
abide by?
.As someone posted earlier today re the
George Galloway motion,why are companies allowed to simply
default on that level of tax, PAYE etc,buy the assets of said company
at knockdown price and start over again as basically the same
entity* (so they claim ) leaving all that debt and dishonour behind.Oh
and btw, decry everyone else in Scottish football as having an “agenda” against them,accuse them of bigotry,demand the names
of those with the agenda,compile lists of the names,names which
won’t be “forgotten”….whatever that might mean,when they’re back
on top,into the bargain.
Dignity FC.Huh,don’t make me laugh.
I think we have a long way to go yet Gerard,and if I know Paul,eco
and the bhoys,they’ll still be digging away on our behalf.
Someone has to after all,as the MSM certainly aren’t going to ask
any hard questions,or any questions at all.
* How I’d love that one to rebound on them big time ……same
club,same debt,same titles to lose……
@All
Sorry for the format above,wasn’t like that when I typed,I
blame cam,he put a hex on me 🙂
I know its sexist and outdated Maggie,but i can’t help worrying about the fairer sex getting all het up about the fitba and the associated Gers Hoops rivalries and baggage.
Your iPad needs a good soaking in the Magners and thank you for not stalking me on my many crimes against the written word.
Exactly Gerard,,it’s all just a bit of fun and we must learn to laugh at ourselves.
When i look at my big ugly bigoted face in the morning i instantly think of Dundee and absolutely pee myself,,,messy but good fun.
I’ve applied to join the CFC watersports gang and supplied the required specimen.
Cam, why would that be, does it look like one of their cakes? 8o)
Yup, its completly nuts!
@cam
Has “Calm down dear,call me Dave” passed that law that prohibits
us girlies talking about football ? He must have slipped that under
the wire before going on his freebie to Davos.
Must get back to my kitchen sink and dream of the day when
I can vote,get an education and a job that pays money.
That is the reason that the good Lord gave women small feet Maggie, so they could get closer to the sink.
My wife asked me to get her watch repaired and wasn’t too happy when i told her that there was a perfectly good clock on the cooker.
Cam, one of the many advantages of being in the minority of football fans in Scotland who are not connected to the either of the hillbilly duo is that we have heard all this personal attacks and whataboutery for all our fitba lives and we are well practised in reading/hearing it and making up our own minds on what is interesting and what is just the old name calling game. I realise that there is something about this that threatens you in some way so that you are compelled to leap in with your “obsession” agenda and the rest of the gubbins but really, do you think we don’t get it?
Last attempt by this diddy to be reasonable: there’s a review in the Sunday’s for a book called “The Heretics”, nothing to do with football but looks good. It’s about how the human mind lies to us. A quote from one review; “We tell ourselves our opinions are based on evidence, but more often than not, we make snap judgements, then seek evidence that supports us while dismissing any that contradicts us. We’re ruled by unconscious biases.”
This blog is a decent addition to the media, it has an agenda (as does all the media), it’s worth a read if only to pick up the odd bit of information and to have a bit of a laugh along the way.
Now Ernie is someone who understands the meaning and purpose of a blog.
Ernie, please educate violet as she has lost the meaning somewhere and now falls into the “obessive followers category”. I am sure you can rescue her if you try, that is if she wants to be rescued.
This blog is one of the best sources of entertainment in the world.What a laugh one can have and learn Latin along the way.
Sociology,psychology,criminality, fantasy finance,theology,whataboutery, mickonese,green eyed jealousy,the seven deadly sins,cross dressing,the effects of late night substance abuse and access to cyberspace,,,its all here and its free!
I love this place and i’m not afraid to say,,i’m a Randomite and i’m proud of it.
@cam
I will second that.
@Ernie
I think the major problem is that the ‘evidence’ we use to validate our perception is based on our culture and upbringing and to be ‘acceptable’ the evidence has to fit with what we know and therefore what is accepted and comfortable to us. We often have no other evidential frame of reference with which to cross-check our innate perception or unconscious bias.
I think the snap judgement really goes right back to the beginning when if you stopped to think a problem through you got eaten. There’s still a lot to commend instant ‘Fight or Flee’.
Cultural differences are important although there aren’t many unknown tribes left up the Amazon to study – except for the descendants of Adam – but an example I like is when you watch someone in a canoe spearing fish.
Looks easy until you try it and miss the fish completely. The secret is that the native fisher automatically corrects his vision n signals to his brain to compensate for the refraction element of the water and light and aims at where he perceives the fish to be – and where it actually is – which is a different place from where the non-native thinks it is.
But the book sounds good and I’ll have a look at the reviews as I enjoy things that are a bit different.
Ernie
” It’s about how the human mind lies to us. A quote from one review; “We tell ourselves our opinions are based on evidence, but more often than not, we make snap judgements, then seek evidence that supports us while dismissing any that contradicts us. We’re ruled by unconscious biases.”
Your post rang a bell.
http://www.rburton.com/_i_on_being_certain_i___believing_you_are_right_even_when_you_re_not_63166.htm
Thanks Cregg. Good link. (Am I suppose to say WATP or hailhail at this point? I’m not getting the hang of it am I?)
How many times do Rangers and Sevco fans have to be proven wrong before they wake up and join reality? A World Record for “I TOLD YOU SO” once Green does a runner?
Think its pretty clear that Green is under the impression he can say what he wants when he wants it will get a positive spin in the media and any rule breaking will be ignored. The fans of Newco seem to think every utterance from Green is in some shape or form support of them after the unreasonable actions of SFA, SPL, SFL, clubs, creditors, bowling alleys and Bingo halls to the oldco going bust. BUST!
A more objective set of eyes would probably wish for silence. It would appear that Green says one thing for people with an IQ and something else for those with season tickets at a stadium yet to be named.
I think to Uni students of PR and Communications the saga at newco is a perfect example of how some people can be fooled all of the time and sometimes its too obvious and deliberate for the gullible to see.
They forget that outside of the appeal there were 30 plus cases of tax evasion admitted, hardly a not guilty verdict. MIH QC also admitted non disclosure of contracts and side letter to SFA and SPL..which is a breaking of the rules. Again with this admission why would LNS or the SPL stop their investigation…..
I think over the next few weeks there will be lots of white noise coming out of the stadium yet to be named all contradictory, none news worthy , but will of course be given prime space in the red tops. In the end if and when the balloon bursts there will no doubt be another magic been planted which will be a strain of the previous bean and blah blah blah… in the end every football fan in the world knows one thing about TRFC they are a NEW CLUB …
@daily fable
“They forget that outside of the appeal there were 30 plus cases of tax evasion admitted, hardly a not guilty verdict.”
Thank God somebody else has brought this up, I was in danger of getting a mite peeved at the fact that every time I mentioned it (more than once, that’s all I’ll say…) it was being completely disregarded by the peepul to whom it was addressed.
Another start to a week where we really have no idea what Chico Mitty will come out with, anyways all good fun..
I have some questions about the various financial posts here…
The £30m rangers have taken in this season does that include the £22m or £27m (delete where appropriate) that was raised in the IPO?
Lastly what exactly does this mean?? “Of course that “profit” figure arises as a result of the addition of “negative goodwill” of £20,465,000 “? Maybe the second question actually part answers the first, if so where does the IPO cash come into it? What is negative goodwill?
Think I will need to get Chico to do my outgoings as I am sure I spent close to these amounts at the weekend.
Jiggery pokery i fear..
@JimBhoy
The IPO document showed that the fixed assets bought for less than £5m had been massively revalued upwards in the interim balance sheet. That change also had an effect on the Profit and Loss in showing it as Income (the negative goodwill). It was entirely theoretical income but that income is what made a difference to the interim Profit and Loss Account in the IPO showing a position just better than breakeven rather than trading at a loss.
Also Mr Charles is now suggesting the IPO raised much less than even the £22m you use as the lower figure, or at least that what’s left is much less anyway.
The simple truth re the MSM, is that they are simply not qualified or interested enough to ask questions. Never have been, never will! Anything, no matter how bizarre or outlandish (in fact more so the better), will find its way into print. That is why I support the motion brought forward by George Galloway, and hope it gets “airtime”, whereby “proper journos and analysts will put forth questions expecting real answers. This scandal has to break free of the confines of Scotland and put to a wider audience for scrutiny! On another point ecojon, if sevco have a $30m turnover, but still running at a loss, What is it being spent on or channelled into.? Sevco may have the league beyond the reach of competitors soon and attendances will probably fall off. A battering by Dun U will see them out of the cup. I don’t see tthey will have a lot to look forward to.
@barcabuster
The problem with your question is that it is simple and should be capable of being dealt with by a simple answer. But as we have seen when dealing with chuckles every word he utters has to be searched for a Yorkshire or Olde French meaning.
Well might you ask why Rangers International is running at a loss with a £30m turnover. Do the institutional investors who presumably have invested their clients’ money in Rangers International know it is running at a loss or forecast to do so by the CEO? Do the Board of Rangers International know it is running at a loss?
Are the AIM Market rules & regulations so lax that this information is not thought important enough to be released to the Market as a whole through a notice?
So many questions and I’m afraid I don’t have any answers and I’m beginning to wonder whether chucky has any either that I would understand 🙂
Even if he did & it was the truth you wouldn’t want to believe the answer.
Chuckles is a PT Barnum. He is noising up all the bigots & haters. Good publicity. Money comes in.
You said the FTT would win.
They didn’t.
You said the share issue would be a flop.
It wasn’t.
Now you (a Celtic fan) wants to claim that it’s all crooked & Chucks going to walk away with Billions…
Reality cheque (sic) for ecojon please
Grey dodo
Billions!!! Nobody said billions
Millions is what we said
Sure your not robert smiff?
@Steven Brennan
Loving those pseudonyms your coming up with
for his Gooseyness.Great work Steven.
Chuckles is noising up bigots and haters. But not limited to . He noises up everyone! The FTT (to date) was unsuccessful, but mote than 30 counts of tax evasion were admitted. Although Chuck lauded the share issue a success, it appears it was only half a success. These are facts! It would also appear to be fact that Sevco spend more than $30m in the operation of a bottom tier football club. I do not consider it bigotry to ask question relating to this. Although I regret I have to! Maybe if Sevco fans asked a few every now and again, there would be no need. Scottish fitba suffered a near killer blow as a result of Oldco’s suicide. The money they siphoned from the game will never return. Only a fool would stand idly by and let it happen again, and as such, it is a perfectly pertinent question as to why a bottom tier club costs in excess of $30m per annum.
@Michaelk1888, Ernie… I agree totally, all this obsessing about those obsessing about the rangers is well just damn right obsessive..
I don’t read many other sites, been put off by some of the pastings that have been put on here showing what kind of individuals are out there, same would apply to anyone, freedom of choice have your say here, there is a lot of sensible debate, some fun comments also and a good bit of banter. If anyone decides it’s not for them then I would suggest they clatter elsewhere…
The rangers circus is in town and has added a new stand up routine by the ringmaster with some added depth in an ongoing show by the clowns, why would this not be a hot topic, at least in a sporting sense? If I lost my ISP I’d maybe even think about buying a paper to read the newest comedy routines from ibrox. Well definitely think about it for a short while.
Yet another interesting bit of Greenspeak and it comes from a Rangers blog so must be correct 🙂
——————————————————————————————
Charles Green’s recent comments on Rangers running at a loss this trading year have left many fans perplexed.
Responding to this, the Rangers CEO has issued this statement:- “We are a public company and have to publish accounts at both the half year and full year stage. Everything will be laid bare. The trading position of the company up to the float was in the prospectus. There is absolutely nothing to hide and all will be disclosed.”
——————————————————————————————-
The AIM flotation document only included the accounts for the three months up until 31 August 2012. I remember at the time of the float on 19 December 2012 wondering why 6 months of accounts up until 30 November hadn’t been produced for investors to see how things were going.
Not being as skilled as chuckles in financial matters I don’t know what he means when he states the ‘trading position’ of Rangers International up to the float was in the prospectus.
So I looked in the propectus for ‘trading position’ and found:
10.1 There has been no significant change in the financial or trading position of the RFCL Group since 31 August 2012, the date to which the historical financial information set out in Part IX of this document was prepared, save for the additional issue of 8,075,000 ordinary shares
through a pre-IPO fundraising for a total consideration of £5,575,000 which has been received by RFCL in cash as described on note 29 of Part IX.
10.2 There has been no significant change in the financial or trading position of the Company since its incorporation.
Tbh that doesn’t really tell me anything except that 8+ million shares were sold before the flotation date but after 31 August and £5.575m was raised from the share sale. Being simple I would have thought his comment meant there was even less reason to be running at a loss.
But let’s go back to running at a loss. If there has been no significant change in the financial or trading position of Rangers International since its incorporation does ‘running at a loss’ constitute a significant change in the financial or trading position of Rangers International.
If it does then when did this take place and what are the reasons which caused the club to be running at a loss.
This always seems to be a problem that when chuckles opens his mouth to explain an earlier explanation then even more uncertainty is created and even more questions are raised.
Still as chuckles is staying another 10 years till he is 70 I’m sure we will eventually get all the answers. And I really do hope his Board doesn’t ever vote him out as we would miss all the moonbeams and stardust and ever-growing list of questions 🙂
We know that Chas wanted the original investment paid back with interest. Could it be that the interest rate being applied is so great that income is not able to cover it?
right,
is it the haudin’ cumpny, the fitbaw cumpny ur the fitbaw club thits lossin aw its munny?
@Barcabuster You raise a good point about Scottish football journalism, I agree I think they have seen the sales figures drop dramatically maybe a lot due to the easier access to the web (much like we are seeing with high street sales) but I think they are actually adapting to a situation where they can get easy news that will cost less, sometimes be less obtrusive in style, can be spun and regurgitated and not really offer any factual conclusion but merely raise contentious issues with eye catching headlines, dressed up garbage. Cheap news to get but still having the effect of putting the issues out there without any real journo work or thought, which will sell more to the more excitable hoardes….
Maybe the scottish footballing media have found their new niche.
@ JimBhoy
I agree with most of what you say but the important bit I would disagree on is when you say: ‘Cheap news to get but still having the effect of putting the issues out there without any real journo work or thought’.
The problem is that the ‘issues’ aren’t put out there but deeply hiden by the PR spin masters who are only interested in putting the ‘agenda’ of their paymasters out there for public consumption.
Still happened in the old days as well but then there used to be journalists who would take delight in picking holes in press releases issued by failed journos who found refuge in PR. And lo and behold they might actually seek a counter-opinion or even demand to question the person quoted in the press release.
Often when the PR company refused access to the ‘person’ the press release mysteriously ended-up in the bin and the ‘person’ would get a late call at home and be told that no one was available at his PR company. Btw I don’t think many PR companies repeated their mistake in future when told there would be no story without direct access or specific questions fully answered 🙂
The biggest problem is that the Rangers story has ended-up mainly dealt with by sports reporters who just ain’t equipped IMHO to effectively deal with it. But the biggest problem for the media is the internet where people are seeing contrary views being expressed when before they might not have realised there were other opinions and also information that the MSM hadn’t released.
And you are?…
@TheBlackGoosey
Your worst nightmare.
Ha ha. The riposte of the week!
@JohnBhoy
Thanks JB,praise indeed,Ahm aw wasted noo.
@JohnBhoy
I feel Steven B has me beaten hands down for renaming
Goosey Blue Tit, and dan also doing some sterling work
on our behalf with carson.
Just a wee update for anyone following the shares of the the biggest and the second biggest clubs in Glasgow.
The biggest has remained steady at 86p even after drawing on Saturday.
The second biggest has fallen ( again ) to 55.88p after failing yet again to lift any untainted silverware.
It would appear the market has lost confidence in the second biggest club’s performance and the consensus seems to be that the price will continuue to fall.
Nobody has predicted how far yet but it is considered that a large portion of the recent gains could be wiped out,
A settled value in the mid to high 40s is considered possible.
SELL SELL SELL
@Clarkeng
You really should try to keep up to date – The Rangers slide since the start of the year continues with price down to:
84.48p
-1.52 (-1.77%)
Real-time: 10:55AM GMT
Which means nothing and neither does the Celtic price. You are either very mischievous or don’t have a clue about the operation of the market. Either way you’re becoming very boring and it would appear have little to offer in the way of debate as your bile seems to be rising and on display more frequently.
I would suggest that you take someone else’s suggestion to Calm Down and await results unless you have a big supply of Blood Pressure pills handy to see you through the week 🙂
@ecojon
Mischievous!! Boring!! Moi!!
Sacre feckin Bleu!!
Debate I have tried and you are not interested in an opinion unless it agrees with your small minded agenda.
Why let facts get in the way of an argument after all.
My blood pressure is fine thank you very much and I am happy to wait and see.
You are preaching to the converted – well not literally but you know what I mean.
All this premature ejaculation, unfounded speculation and misguided opinionating on here needs to be countered with something.
Whether that be sense or ridicule depends on the content of the post.
Anyone for tennis?
@Clarkeng
If you come up with anything of interest I will reply but don’t hold your breath as you seem to be getting quite desperate lately.
Clerkeng,
That’s a few time you have brought up premature ejaculation, so I’m going to make the mother of all feck ups and assume you are female from now on, simply on the grounds that premature ejaculation is only a problem for women 😮
Aye, your premature ejaculation is a problem for women!
Sorry John C. That was supposed to be a reply to Clarkeng. I totally mis-read it.
@ YOU PAIR
Yes you know who I mean.
Naw ask any wummin.
Mostly with arses like youselves they are quite glad its all over quickly.
Ask them if you dont believe me.
You wouldn’t be able to sell! The AIM market in particular is not very liquid & you wouldn’t be able to get the current price of 55.8p. There are no buyers placed in the market for CFC shares. There is a batch of 20,000 or so shares at this moment placed out to sell at 50p limit order. Order has sat there for 2 months.. With 120 shares sold!
Blue tit
Why dont you tell me where this info came from? Thats what your tribe usually ask?
Are you sure your not robert smiff?
Steven get a burd and stop behaving like a shoite hawk!
@Steven Brennan
Blue Tit. 🙂 🙂 🙂 .definitive pseudonym!!!!!!
Let’s go with that one Steven,can’t be bettered.
God bless Gladys Green,NOT green by nature but by name only .Soon to be called many names by the Ibrokes massive (Too many pies)
Traynor’s latest boorish invective (http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/opinion/item/3229-game-en-title-d-to-better) gives expression to the The Rangers mind. If the democratic debate on restructuring and the LNS findings do not meet with the approval of The Rangers – a new club with an associate status and no voting rights and in the bottom tier of Scottish football – then “let no one be in any doubt… clubs will suffer”.
I cannot recall the old Rangers, even under SDM’s omnipotent ownership, openly conducting itself in print in a manner more befitting a tawdry tabloid than a professional football club. This article, with its gutter mentality and lack of dignity, will have their champion of decorum and fortitude, Bill Struth, turning in his grave with shame.
A cursory glance at what Leggo has to say once or twice a week is usually an eye opener for me and a good barometer of the daft element of the rangers support… Even rangers fans on this site have mentioned that.
However he MAY have spouted a major blooper (well probably most of what he says is bunkum and balderdash to use his words). The argument of attendances, one close to the rangers fans hearts for some reason, came up a few month’s ago with respect to official rangers’ attendances which was radically different to the numbers confirmed by the police, there was an official letter posted (at least one) on here if memory serves, which someone received from the police. It was stated at the time (by Chico) in defence that he could assure fans that the numbers announced by the club as official match attendance figures could actually differ to what the police had as official numbers. Seemed strange to me at the time, not sure he gave a real answer/reason but either the limpet Leggo or Chico Mitty’s pants are on fire… I am afraid Gentlemen you can’t have it both ways…
Celtic have officially sold 53k FULL season books, that’s money up front and in the bank. I suspect Chico’s latest financial revelations is a precursor to asking the fans to commit to SBs for the new season as soon as he can possibly get away with it..
@JimBhoy
For some reason March is in my brain. Whip the fans up tell them the club is in trouble and they’ll need to buy the books right away to ensure the future and protect the history.
And don’t forget they might yet be asked to stump-up for the No Naming Rights – I wonder when Bears actually come out of their hibernation slumber. Be better sticking to their nightmares than wakening-up to the real life financial horror that appears to await.
“Celtic have officially sold 53k FULL season books”
Do you have a source for this information JimBhoy ?
@Adam
Things must be getting serious when they are drafting the subs again – I look forward to your many questions and deflections as always 🙂
was a fairly straightforward question to be honest. Do you know where he got his figures from ? Do you believe they are correct ?
@ecojon
I see Fitzcarraldo’s back……Oh there goes the fun 😦
I leave him to your superior skills eco.
I’m away to make the dinner and make cam’s day by
reverting to domestic goddess who has no opinions about
football.
Strange one this. Within hours of the Prospectus being released in the public domain, every Celtc forum and even this blog, had done the calculations using the information provided and concluded Rangers would make a loss this season.
Everyone and their granny knew it…….so why all of a sudden is their a mock shock at the CEO confirming what everybody had worked out within hours of the first glimpse of financials.
As for a CEO stating that the company will be a loss making one publicly, can you please confirm exactly which rule this breaks. Are you expecting us to believe that at no time in the past has Peter Lawwell or any other CEO said in a public interview that “we expect to make a profit/loss this year”
The old saying “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” comes to mind.
@Adam
Yes. Some people did project that The Rangers would make a loss this year. They also added that this shows how idiotic Green’s business plan is and would signal bad news for his new club.
I think Green’s announcement is only being highlighted because he was boasting about the opposite before the IPO. The way he’s so easily flip-flopped on this issue, but hasn’t been called to task by The Rangers fans or the MSM is, whether you like it or not, a valid reason for debate.
If I was a The Rangers fan, I would be worried that the CEO of my club is boasting about being debt free and having the best balance sheet in Scotland one minute (along with claiming future deals with Adidas, Dallas Cowboys and Apple etc.) and then pleading poverty the next.
I’m sure the fact that Green’s change in stance just happened to coincide with the share issue is just a coincidence.
Adamed of you do, adamed if you don’t.
@Adam
There are regulations concerning disclosure of price-sensitive information, unless this information has been made available to the market officially.
Quite aside from that fact is the outright lie peddled by Chico that the prospectus had stated the PLC would be run at a loss in the 1st year, when in fact it most assuredly did not.
@TykeBhoy thanks for the clarification stills seems like financial smoke and mirrors to me… The whole thing smacks of short-termism, maybe chico will pull another rabbit out of the hat this week with mega shirt deal and sponsor.
Didn’t he say in a recent interview all the 2012 SB money is lying in the bank??? Follow the money, can’t go wrong..!!
However, any big shirt manufacturer will never make a loss on a large fan base, they will ensure the deal is sweet enough that they are always in profit regardless.
Be good to see the numbers spun on the worth of the deal and sponsorship, I fear it will be similar to that for naming Ibrox (although it will always be known as Ibrox according to Chico !!!! ), pretty much so vague with addons for various unreachable criteria met but never made visible to the bears. My bet is that it will come close, financially to what celtic have set up or better… 🙂 If I was Chico i would tell the bears the deal is 10 times more than the current celtic deals, no-one is gonna question him anyway. I wait for the day he rides into Ibrox in his golden chariot pulled by unicorns with monkey butlers at his side..
@Ecojon
Do yourself a favour and buy some RIFC shares (about 86p each at present ) and put yourself in a position to ask questions of the CEO and board as a shareholder .
Is it worth dropping a line to the UK Listing Authority, Investigations and Enquiries Team, The Financial Services Authority, 25 The North Colonnade, London E14, 5HS or giving them a call on 0207 066 8348 to seek their views as to whether Mr Green has infringed any of the AIM rules?.
If he is found to have breached the rules, he is liable to be fined.
“The Madness. The Madness”
@Paddy Malarkey
And where would you suggest I do that Paddy? At the AGM? As a Glasgow bhoy born and bred my sense of survival would prevent me going into a Rangers agm to ask hard questions of the Saviour.
I have seen how their own kind have been treated at agms when they tried to question the financial viability of Minty Moonbeams so that colours my thinking somewhat.
And do I really think that I would get any sensible answers at a crowded agm of fan investors? The way the shareholding appears to be structured or has ended-up provides little in the way of clues as to what institutional voting blocs would form in certain circumstances. Obviously the mystery nature of many investors and the hard-to-crack offshore trusts makes this task difficult.
So I wait on the sidelines as the people who really should be demanding answers to serious questions are the Bears, especially those who have invested. But at the moment it appears they’re stuck at the level of whether the seats will remain the same colour if the stadium is renamed.
I do believe as time passes the questions may become harder for chuckles to deal with but we will see. At the moment as I have said before the Bears are clinging to the flotsam and jetsum and there doesn’t even seem to be a liferaft anywhere on the horizon.
So while they paddle to remain afloat and keep their dream alive they are sustained by the thought of new leagues in a far land and fresh world records to set.
@clarkeng
three wee jobbies o/s c
1. Investigate the illegal use of the DOS Schemes to pay players and report back
2. Investigate the number of 1p shares in the recent offering and to whom were they ‘sold’
3. @andrew woods come up with an occasion where HMRC have been refused leave to appeal a case.
@arb urns
On the case lad.
Will report back when mission accomplished.
@arb urns
Well I have spent a long day perusing the various sites to gather the information.
Just sorting through.
As regards 1 and 2 you can expect a full report tomorrow.
On 3 I can confirm that there is no evidence HMRC have ever actually appealed having lost in a case which went to a tribunal at least not that I can find,
There are loads of cases where the appellant was the taxpaying person or company and in these cases the success rate of HMRC is about 60% at FTTT.
At the UTTT stage HMRC are slightly less successful but again they are mainly the respondent rather than the appellant as they are in the Rangers case.
On that basis I have to conclude that they may not have been ever refused leave to appeal but that is only because they have never applied to do so.
I am sure I already know the answer about the 1p shares but as I say will report fully tomorrow.
@cam, clarkeng, Adam et al
I have come to the conclusion that you are not real The Rangers fans. If you where, you would have already took the course of action that The Rangers fans have adopted to everything recently, and boycotted this site. So come on, who’s aliases are you? I mean, we all know the obvious one, cam = mick. But the rest of you, who are you?
@coybig
Another wrong conclusion.
What can I say.
I am me.
Born in the east end but moved to Govan for the first five years of my life.
Returned to the east end and lived there until I married then moved to Cumbernauld for 3 years.
Spent a few years moving about then 7 and a bit years in Aberdeen.
Have been back in the east end since 1989.
Have seen the best of Rangers and the worst, I suppose you could say I have seen the same of CFC.
But no I am who I am.
Someone has got to provide checks and balances on here and it might as well be me.
Keeps me amused when the dark nights are here.
I am also me, but bearing in mind that we are all me ,than you are me,i am you and together we can,like the truth,set you free.
A boycott of this site has no tactical advantage.Our very presence and intellectual input adds to the debate and prevents a form of blogland in breeding which could see the offspring plucking at banjo’s whilst coming up with the latest anti Gers fantasy.
That could segway nicely for me to do a little satirical piece a la The Incubator, but not being a tactical bigot then i won’t go there
Think of yourselves as the Volturi and us as the sacrificial new blood that keeps your hatred focused and relevant.
Your question had a less complex answer.
Who are we?,,,,the people of course!
@cam
It wasn’t really a question, rather just highlighting the way that The Rangers fans do things. If they don’t like what someone says, they act like a baby, throw the toys out the pram and boycott! Boycott! The fact that you and Clarkeng (who’s writing style is oh so simular to your own) et al haven’t boycotted this site might suggest that you’re out of touch with the rest of your club’s fan base. Or that you’re not a The Rangers fan at all, but infact a Timposter…
I didn’t know what the fuck “Volturi” ment, so I looked it up. Twilight? Really? So not only do we now know you’re not a real The Rangers fan, but we also now know that you’re really a teenage girl with posters of Robert Pattinson on your bedroom wall.
Dammit man you’re way too good at this.I will trade you two Jackies in mint condition for the rare Beano edition where Dennis’s jumper is green and white hoops.
I have added to your general knowledge so its a day not wasted.
Now let me guess,,you have a poster of Pierre van Honkytonk clad in latex on your wall?
@cam
Nope, im a Larsson man. I don’t know what Jackies are either, but i’ve heard of the Beano tho. Dennis the Menace in green and white hoops? Are you sure you’re not confusing him and Broony?
@cam
Dear oh dear cam segway really? I think you mean segue
as in a smooth tradition.Revenge is mine sayeth Maggie.
See your pal Blue Tit aka Goosey Gander for a loan of
his dictionary 🙂
Seriously tho’ cam,for the record,I absolutely despise that incubator “piece” completely unacceptable.
Smooth transition,Maggie!Dont have me correcting you again.
From TSFM:
Under courtroom conditions (FTTT) the MIH/Rangers FC QC, Mr Thornhill, conceded that, where a side letter existed, the remuneration trust benefit to footballers was contractual.
As Rangers did not lodge any side letters with the SPL the complete Contract of Service was not submitted for players who had been given that additional benefit. Therefore, players who are found to have been issued with side letters must logically be found to have not been eligible to play in official matches.
Rangers understood that the EBT benefit was contractual with the issue of a side letter.
Rangers understood that all Contracts of Service must be lodged with the SPL.
Rangers understood that they were playing with improperly registered players.
Though the commission are not in any real position to punish the club – as they are now deceased – they must, at the very least, correct the result of each match where an ineligible player participated.
This is really, really simple.
@Ecojon
Doesn’t have to be the AGM (not holding my breath waiting for that ) but , as a shareholder you could reasonably write to the company and I am sure that Mr Traynor would be tasked to give an honest, transparent and factual reply to your questions . Also , think of the kudos you could expect when you begin posts or replies with the words “As a shareholder in RIFC , ………..”
I don’t know why some people are bringing Celtic into the discussion again.
There is noone obsessed with Rangers because they trade at a higher price right now. But for the sake of an argument I will explain the difference in market capitalisation a wee bit. That’s easily explained by trading volume. There is no supply to meet the demand for Celtic plc shares therefore the price stays the same. Statistical outlier is the 25th January this year but that’s just people who want to cash in their investment.
The difference in the trading volume comes from mainly 2 reasons.
1. Rangers International is a new company. Hence it produces interest among the jobbers at the AIM
2. Though the structure seems similar with Celtic plc having 35.57 per cent and Rangers International 36.89 per cent of the shares widely spread, Dermot Demond holds 36.43 per cent with other directors and single investors holding around 21 per cent. There are only 5 shareholders holding more than 3 per cent of the shares in Celtic. This as I said before constrains the possibility of trading in Celtic plc shares significantly.
Rangers International on the other hand has (as per prospectus) 12 shareholders holding more than 3 per cent of the shares but noone more than 9 per cent, 7 of them institutional investors. As you can see there are more people in for the money in Rangers International (RI) as in Celtic plc (Celtic).
Does the market capitalisation mean RI is the bigger company? No. Does it mean it’s value is higher? No, as well. market capitalisation is a starting point for valuating a company but not its value. I can’t do a proper analysis right now, first of all because I lack time and motivation to do so and secondly there are no Cash flows and accounts etc. available for RI not even on Thomson Reuters or Bloomberg (of course because they do not exist right now) but my guess is that Celtics value exceeds that of RI by a third to one half and because of IFRS I do not count the value of the first teams of both clubs of both companies.
So what does the market capitalisation tells us: Celtic is undervalued. Nothing more nothing less.
Enough of Celtic now.
Coming to the other topics: It is not the fact that Rangers are trading at a loss right now that causes this “shock” as it was pointed out that many came to that conclusion after reading the accounts in the prospectus. (As I said then I say it again it is never a good sign for a company to have an operative loss) It is the fact that Mr Green told the Rangers Media but apparently not the investors and after all the fuss he made about Rangers being only second to ManU and the millions of possible customers, etc. and he was hailed as the new Fergus McCann but now it looks like he is a new David Murray (with less money).
About the MSM. I think (but as an outsider I can’t say it for sure) it is not only Rangers related that the MSM degenerated to being the voice of the press office of the company. Everywhere in the world the quality of articles in newspapers is dropping. Quality newspapers like the NY times, the times, le monde, die Zeit, etc. become tabloids. Journalist don’t know how to do research or they don’t get the time to do so. Right now you get the latest news in the internet and proper research is done by the people who are blogging about things they have an interest in. This is a sad trend.
I guess that’s all what I wanted to say. I will stay at the sideline and look how everything unfolds. I will still read the blog because I love Paul’s writing style but won’t comment anymore because more than often the comments here read more like Celtic/Rangers trash talk and this as well is a sad trend.
The only paper that i read regularly now is the Metro.I don’t use buses now due to the rampaging pillaging hordes,but i do stick my mitt out,lift a free paper and then wish the driver a jolly day.
Every paper has the weakness of being edited by an individual who can direct its agenda based on his/her own prejudices.
I buy the odd paper,the Daily Mail.Herald,Record etc. just to catch up.The Guardian used to have a great sports section especially the tennis commentators in the 70’/80’s.
@cam
Just like Charlie stuck his big Yorkshire mitt out and lifted a free couple of million pounds. I don’t know if he’ll wish The Rangers fans a jolly day tho. On second thoughts, considering the shit he’s got away with so far, he might do a lap of honour around Ashley’s Sports Direct Arena (ASDA), stopping for pictures, heck he might even throw his grey suit into the crowd.
After the St Mirren result i hear Celtic are gonna team up with Marks and Spencers.
Its THE place to be if your into masochism and sadism.
@cam
Aha…Marks and Spencers = M & S = Masochism and sadism. Brilliant. I bet you tried Tesco first, eh?
Silly me, i went for Costco but the result was libellous.
@cam
Touché.
One word.
Pish.
If this is not important to the great unwashed why does every post of mine attract this kind of response.
Now we are saying that the basis of a company’s worth is not accurately reported by the regulatory body which collates the information.
Absolutely unbelievable.
Have a look at the trading in CFC shares and correct yourself.
I say again – if you dont know dont post.
Dont be theorising on here.
Give us facts.
I have to say I am astonished that post like this keep appearing.
Keep them coming they funnier by the minute.
No seriously there must be someone across the other side who understands the information given by the LSE AIM.
Please ……….. step forward and provide some sanity.
@Clarkeng
The most important part of Micheal’s post IMHO is:
“Does the market capitalisation mean RI is the bigger company? No. Does it mean it’s value is higher? No, as well. market capitalisation is a starting point for valuating a company but not its value.”
You seem to be putting far too much stock in RIFC’s market cap. It was (correctly) said at the float that the RIFC share price tanking immediately would have made not a jot of difference to the amount raised by the IPO.
By the same token, the only people who now stand to gain from the share price rising are the ones who hold the shares, not the PLC.
First, a quote from someone “If Churchill had adopted @Violet’s philosophy – “For goodness sake wait and see” – we’d all be eating sauerkraut for breakfast… “. The level of ignorance and xenophobia betrayed in this short sentence is interesting. We had already decided to go to war before Mr Churchill became PM in May 1940, eating sauerkraut is not the only characteristic of germans and wait and see was a plank of British diplomacy for some years before 1939. Indeed if the government of the day had not adopted a wait and see strategy Britain would have been even more ill-prepared for war than we were. And, to in any way equate the importance of the obsessional ramblings on this site with the events of the war is crass in the extreme. But, then some people on here have lost all sense of perspective. So, a man says something which may be stupid, so what. I am wasting some part of my day on here, but some of you seem to be trapped behind your laptops banging on about the comma in line 25 of page 97 of the Rangers prospectus – why. No good will come of it.
When I first came to this site I was fairly biased against RFC for historic and recent reasons. But not now. Plucky little RFC are still attracting huge crowds despite not doing so well in the footballing department. The have shown that in adversity they have a loyal support, True, some of them still drag their knuckles along the ground, but the rest have shown a loyalty I could only wish for my team. They have been tested and have not been found wanting. Where they do have a problem is in the PR area. Some of the utterances of Mr Green are risible and OK, make merry at his expense, but stop extending that merry making to RFC and their supporters.
The sins of the past may well bring the house down and LNS will or will not find against them, AIM or the Institutions may or may not have word in his ear and HMRC will do what they do. But, my guess is that it will make a huge difference to the green side (most of it) of this site, but little difference to the RFC brigade. The will turn out to see them play in the Sunday Post Tayside league 3.
I wonder how loyal CFC’s support would be if the shoe was on the other foot – we will never know and that really galls many on here. RFC KNOW.
It is also interesting that this site now has a major interest in Newcastle FC – I wonder why? The random nature of this site seems to have gone and we are now on all things Rangers and not necessarily new things at that.
Finally, it is an interesting study that Cam, Clark and a couple of others share similar points of view. And express them more or less acceptably (with some notable exceptions) but do so independently. Look through how many times, let’s chose a name at random, Ecojon offers some wisdom and all the usual suspects pile in with a load of mutual and reinforcing congratulations on a ‘great post’ only for these congratulations to be reciprocated. One wonders why and if it is all as random as it seems. I look forward to the TD’s
Ah Violet, you tread where angels fear and to hang with the TD’s.You have captured the mood that the Gers fans will turn up anywhere,anytime to support the team and it is enraging the closet bigots in here.
JohnBhoy will be along shortly to administer your punishment,his familiars come as part of the “pain” team.
Don’t cry out it only encourages their bloodlust.
Smile at them for they know not what they post!
@cam
“The closet bigots in here”?
Can you elaborate on that please? And I hope you’re not going to attempt to include me as one of them.
Not at all sir,you are one of the most reasonable of bampots.I just lobbed that grenade in for fun after Eco broke the Entente Cordiale and labelled me as a bigot sans closet,,,is that correct Maggie?
Most of the chaps and the fair Maggie are all fair fighters,,,no biting or scratching please,lets leave that to the masochists at Le Stade de Sade
I just reread my incendiary device and see that JB could misconstrue my intention.
For the record JB ain’t a bigot.I think some of his material is best suited for a W.C but thats the UXB defused!
@cam
Depends whether you’re without ( sans) a closet
or in ( dans) a closet….:-)
@violet
Violet
Would you have my babies??
And cam they are in no way closet bigots.
They do tend to hunt in packs and the hatred lies just below the surface.Soon they shall self destruct,its genetic,a behavioural trait and part of Mother Natures work to bring balance.
@Violet Carson
Didn’t you get the memo? ecojon’s changed his team, he’s a The Rangers fan now. I guess that fucks up that long winded piece you’ve just spent hours writing, eh? Well that is the sole reason behind all of your posts, supporting the opposite view of ecojon, ain’t it? Your posts are that tiresome they’ll soon be available on the NHS as a cure for insomnia.
@Violet Carson
Before you take any offence to what I just posted, ask everyone else who posts on here for their opinion on it, 99% of them will concur with my sentiments on it. Maybe you secretly fancy ecojon, I don’t know. But you do seem a wee bit OBSSESSED with him to say the least. So why don’t you forget all about him when you post and add something to the debate.
In failing that, ecojon has took offence to what I wrote, so surely that means you’re in favour of it, right?
Copybig
I am not sure what it is you are drivelling on about and you seem to be taking some kind of party line hat I am opposed to what Ecojon writes just for the sake of it. Why are you taking up the gauntlet on his behalf – it’s not manlove is it. And, it goes some way to proving one of my points. And, given that most of the comment was not about Ecojon, why don’t you comment on that. Unlike you it seems, I didn’t take hours to write- it took as long as it took you to read it. I suspect that you are judging me by your standards. Painfully searching for the wrong word and then carefully placing it in the wrong part of the sentence.
@Violet Carson
So Violet, to try and convince people you’re not obssessed with ecojon, you write a post, over half of which is about…you guessed it, ecojon.
Yes you’re right, im in love with ecojon…seriously tho, every one of your post circles around one theme – ecojon. And i’m also sorry to disappoint your ‘everyones out to get me’ mindset, but i’m not trying to tow any party line or take up the gauntlet for anyone. I’m just telling you what I see, and that’s you constantly bringing up ecojon’s name, or subliminally mentioning him, in every post you write.
“Unlike you it seems, I didn’t take hours to write”
Yes. You caught me. It takes me hours to write my posts. No honestly, I started this one last week…
“I suspect that you are judging me by your standards.”
Isn’t that a saying? Judge people by your own standards? But no, I was judging you in comparison to a saint. Well that’s the mantel you’re trying to assume, aint it?
“Painfully searching for the wrong word and then carefully placing it in the wrong part of the sentence.”
I have no idea what this sentance is reffering to…oh wait…hang on, place that here, put that there and……whala! = You explain maybe football can? Is that what you ment?
@Coybig
You will search in vain for a post from @Violence that is supportive of anything that ecojon writes. Like a huffy lovesick teenager, she stalks and ignores him in equal measure.
Violet,your ability to draw out the venom from JB is unsurpassed.The jolly craicster image vacates the building and the passion that you invoke in him is tres revealing.
Just you remember your place,its a football discussion and don’t bring religion into it unless the sites guardians permit it.
The vitriol Johnny bhoy puts into his put downs directed at you is actually quite disturbing and i’ll back your “base value system” before the angry mans anytime.
Keep posting,ignore Eco,he has been exposed as a Google based nonentity a good while ago and his prattlings are like being savaged by the proverbial dead sheep.
She might be his missus in the other room, getting her own back for all the time he spends on the computer.
@Violence
Ah, Cam’s poison-pen fiend, Posh from Edinburgh. What kept you? Picking up the pooh from your red Tibetan Mastiff is not that easy is it? I wondered when you would gate-crash the party, over-oiled legs ungainly straddling your Katie Price pink Range Rover, screaming champagne-fuelled pity for the proletariat.
My toe-nail clippings have as much intellectual force as your banal remonstrations. Xenophobic based on a sausage? I was about to write that I pity you but that’s your favourite retort, although you normally drag in your poor kid in support of your argument (see your previous posts) which, in my view, is evidence of bad parenting. May I recommend the following book: Eco Baby – A Guide to Good Parenting.
Most of your posts are anti-Celtic, which is fine but don’t pretend otherwise. The horrible individuals that you often support are testament not only to your allegiance but also to your base value system. And what was the purpose of urging people to comment on a Catholic spokesperson’s embarrassing statement comparing Catholic sectarianism with slavery? The topic of the conversation was football, so where did that come from? The reality is that you were seeking to gain pleasure at the expense of those that you perceive to be Celtic supporters, i.e. Catholics.
Free speech as a concept is admirable but sometimes the cost to our ears is painfully injurious. Jean-Paul Sartre was right: hell is other people.
Sauerkraut is cabbage? ja? Maggie can you sort JB out he doesn’t know his schnitzel from his bratwurste.
billionaire investors – check
5 euro 2012 players – check
full disclosure of investors – check
addidas kit sponser – check
enjoying the journey – check
making friends – check
EPL want us – check
£10 million warchest – check
share issue shortfall take up – check
club to make profit this year – check
£9 million stadium investment – check
our own titles ..ahem ..bought and paid for – check
newcastle loan players – check
oh no, wait , sorry… did i say check…. what i meant to say was B”£$%*CKS
I must hand it to the organisational skills of the bloggers who were outraged enough by the Remembrance Day activities at Ibrox to contact various depts. to have action taken to ensure that this outrage doesn’t re-occur.
It certainly shows the power of the internet and the effect that concerted action can have.
I came across this dubiously named site which allegedly shows some of the communications which brought about the rethink by the armed forces.How can sites like this nutter get hold of this stuff?
http://themanthebheastscanttame.wordpress.com/
This is just one example of the dangers of taking blogging too far and i think its time to get legislation in place to curb some of the excesses in cyberspace.
Sevco are third division $hite; end of.
@last poster
Thats original and you obviously speak from a neutral point of view.
Dont be holding back.
Tell us what you really think.
Dick.
I always really liked this blog, intersting articles (if your not rangers minded), great debate and opinions and a bit of banter. Seems to be awash with trolls feeding each other or themselves more likely and explains why there is only a few posters…….sad really. I’ll still enjoy the articles but we’ve allowed the trolls to destroy the chat, apparently starving them is the only way?