How Can the Terms of the SFA/SPL/Rangers 5-way Agreement be Discovered?

The following post is (a) technical and (b) hypothetical. I suspect that nobody will go down these roads to get access to the 5-way Agreement. Maybe old-fashioned investigative reporting will get hold of the executed copy. However, as there are practical reasons why it being published would be beneficial, that probably means that it will stay hidden!

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The “Holy Grail” of Scottish football is, for now anyway, the famous 5-way Agreement. This notorious document was agreed between the Scottish Premier League, Scottish Football Association, Scottish Football League, RFC 2012 PLC (in liquidation) and Rangers Football Club Ltd. Like the Holy Grail, it has been much spoken of, but never seen, except by a select few.

It provided the pathway for “Rangers” to enter Scottish football after the decision of the SPL to refuse to approve the transfer of SPL share from oldco Rangers to newco Rangers. The 5-way Agreement smoothed the path of Rangers to SFA membership.

Despite it being covered and discussed at great length in the press, on radio and TV, and in blogs and message boards, the terms of the Agreement have never been published. On assumes that commercial confidentiality is offered as a reason for this. Of course there are confidential details – but the impression has been given that even the members of the football bodies – the clubs – have not seen the terms.

An SFA official reacts to the suggestion that the 5-way Agreement should be published

An SFA official reacts to the suggestion that the 5-way Agreement should be published

The management of each body has authority to conclude such an agreement – there is no suggestion it was ultra vires – and there was no requirement for each organisation to approve the deal.

One of the key clauses in the Agreement is that by which newco accepted responsibility for oldco’s “football debt”. What does that mean?

There are various possibilities.

It could mean only the debt owed to other football teams when Rangers entered administration.

It could refer to any debt owed, or which becomes owed, by oldco in relation to football activities.

It could extend to fines imposed on oldco for breaching rules.

It could go as far as binding newco to cover awards of damages made against oldco for “football wrongs”.

These thoughts were prompted by an article by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain on Friday 8th March.

In it he suggested, based on information from a sports lawyer, that clubs which had been financially harmed by Rangers breaking rules regarding disclosure, as determined by the Nimmo Smith Commission, could take action against oldco under SFA/SPL disputes procedures.

As the lawyer points out, the case would be against the oldco and not the newco. Whether it would be worthwhile pursuing a case would depend on the terms of the 5-way Agreement.

In addition, although perhaps a more remote claim, sponsors could potentially take action against oldco, in a similar way to the proposed legal actions by various companies against Lance Armstrong. There could also be the possibility (remote however) of a supporter of an aggrieved team taking a civil action on the basis that the contest they were paying to see was rendered unfair by oldco rule breaking.

(The point of this piece is not to consider the possibility of success of such an action but whether there are ways in which disclosure of the 5-way Agreement could be forced as part of, or as a preliminary to, a claim. I am not suggesting that such an action would be used as a device to disclose the Agreement.)

As Phil’s piece mentions, though not in these terms, there is no res iudicata arising from the Nimmo Smith Commission. This means, simply, that the decision of the Commission, whilst persuasive in relation to any future arbitration, Commission or court hearing, is NOT binding.

Now, any of the parties mentioned above would want to know, prior to raising a complaint under the SFA/SPL process, or a court action, if their claim was one newco might have to meet, under the 5-way Agreement.

(I will also pass over just now whether the 5-way Agreement could provide legally enforceable rights of recovery to a third party, not a member of the various football bodies, and not party to the Agreement.)

So how to get hold of the Agreement?

Where the process is an arbitration, which would apply in a dispute between another football club and oldco, the Arbitration (Scotland) Act 2010 contains the rules of procedure and these give the arbiter the power to order disclosure of any relevant documents. However, to get to that stage, an arbitration needs to have been commenced.

It is possible to seek production of the Agreement in advance of a court action, by using the procedure under the Administration of Justice (Scotland) Act 1972.

Section 1 of the Act confers on the Court of Session and the sheriff court power to make various orders before commencement of proceedings including an order for the inspection, photographing, preservation, custody and detention of documents which appear to the court to be property as to which any question may relevantly arise not only in any existing civil proceedings before that court but in civil proceedings which are likely to be brought, and to order the production and recovery of any such property.

Before the court may grant the order it is necessary for the applicant to show that civil proceedings are likely to be brought, and that in such proceedings questions may relevantly arise as to the documents. In order to do so he must give sufficient information to enable the court to know what the action is going to be about, and what assistance the documents or other property referred to will give in deciding it. The applicant must disclose the nature of the claim he intends to make and show, not only the intention of making it, but also that there is a reasonable basis for making it. A prima facie case must be made out.

As the late Lord MacPhail’s book on Sheriff Court Practice states:-

“Ill-founded, irresponsible and speculative allegations based merely on hope would not provide a reasonable basis for an intended claim in subsequent proceedings.”

As an action would be against oldco (ignoring too the complications of raising proceedings against a company in liquidation) the relevance of the 5-way Agreement would be to determine if there was in fact a third party, newco, who was “indemnifying” oldco.

Should a company or an individual make such an application, it would be instructive to see if any of the parties holding a copy of the Agreement, namely the five parties, would be willing to agree to disclosure, or whether they would fight against it. Whilst the court would consider an argument about confidentiality, it is by no means certain, and indeed is unlikely, that that would prevent an order for disclosure where that was the only contrary argument.

Matters would be simplified, of course, if the Agreement was published, even with redaction. After all, as it is a document which clearly has importance for the welfare of a PLC and its investors (Rangers International FC PLC), there is an argument that Rangers itself should be disclosing it.

It would be of use to investors to know how far the “football debt” clause extended.

Will someone make such an application? It might be worth a go, if only to provoke reaction! But one should never use court proceedings for such a frivolous purpose!

🙂

Posted by Paul McConville

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120 Comments

Filed under Civil Law, Football Governance, SFA, SPL, Uncategorized

120 responses to “How Can the Terms of the SFA/SPL/Rangers 5-way Agreement be Discovered?

  1. cam

    Jings, crivvens, help ma boab.
    For a minute i thought that photo was a couple of Cardinals behaving inappropriately at the conclave.

  2. cam

    Article was accompanying my crunchy nut cornflakes quite well until the PMacG reference, at which point eyes rolled skyward and Leggoland seemed a nicer filling for my roll.
    “ill founded,irresponsible and speculative allegations”,,,i do hope those bloody Gers lawyers didn’t have Lord MacPhails book with them at the IPO cosy chat.
    I hate it when that happens.

  3. gortnamona

    Funny – I thought that it was a photograph of Charles Green and Malcolm Murray having a friendly discussion at an Ibrox board meeting. Maybe it it is?

  4. Antonious F

    I thought it was Charlie’s and Ally’s monday morning review after they returned from Annan

  5. cam

    I always thought that the Holy Grail of Scottish fitba was the dodgy dossier buried under area 51 of Hampden and searched for by Baron “Indiana” Reid.
    Took my Gers v Annan programme round the back and set fire to the damned thing, and the next door neighbour thought a new Pope had been chosen,so i threw a copy of Downfall on the bonfire,but just like its sales figures,it didn’t set the heather on fire.

    • Antonious F

      Cam, wouldn’t have put you done as someone who had a copy of Downfall. maybe you’re a wee PMG groupie in disguise. and your obvious understanding of how a new Pope is elected has really got me thinking-
      a) You have come over from the darkside to the greener grass
      b) You were always a non-Rangers supporter but felt sorry for them when you seen the standard of their various blogs, so decided to help them along
      c) You are just an oracle of information.

      I cant make up my mind.

  6. cam

    I contacted a couple of SPL sponsors and two SPL teams after taking micks lead of calling BDO’s New York office?,,,ffs!!
    I ran the possibility of them raising a totally non frivolous court action,in order to unveil the Grail.
    They asked me to call back later when the lithium had kicked in.

  7. cam

    Going for a kip now Tony,but i’ll talk more crap to you later.
    If you see white smoke give me a shout.

  8. Raymilland

    @Paul McC

    “There could also be the possibility (remote however) of a supporter of an aggrieved team taking a civil action on the basis that the contest they were paying to see was rendered unfair by oldco rule breaking.”

    In the instance that any supporter is able to identify a quantifiable loss in respect to a bet placed upon a team which was runner up to RFC in any league and cup competition during the relevant period of rule breaking; is it not possible for a class action to be maintained against oldco for loss of bets that would otherwise been fruitful?

    Would any such action require to challenge the findings of LNS?

    • @Ray

      Not as I read it. If anything LNS would bolster such a claim: don’t forget he found them guilty of breaking disclosure rules, the registration/eligibility question only applied as far as title stripping. Besides, nothing he said is legally binding, not even on the SFA!

  9. When documents of public interest are kept secret, you always wonder why.

    The suspicion arises that publishing such documents may be extremely embarrassing to the parties involved, or may cause public uproar that might be difficult to contain.

    Much easier to rely on the standard…’contains commercially sensitive information’.

    I get the feeling if ever someone did decide to challenge the decision not to publish, there could very well be an accidental shredding event.

    Given the previous experience of a shredding company which involved itself with Scottish football, it may be wise for anyone undertaking such a task to insist on payment in advance.

  10. Paul,
    There is appetite for this amongst fans. A number of commenters in the blogosphere, and Tweeters, have queried whether some form of civil action might be worthwhile. As I see it, there is a case to be made that the punters did not receive what they were sold – being sold tickets to games under the premise that all players were in compliance with the rules of eligibility on an equal basis, i.e. the games were fair. There is an expactation or understanding by the buyer, despite it not stating explicitly on the ticket or T&Cs.
    However, success of such a case is another matter, and following from that, any award of damages might be largely pointless, unless New Rangers are liable to cover any award.

    Maybe the principle re retrospective punishment, as established in SPLIC will continue? No action can be taken now since wrongdoing has been discovered well after it took place?

    Also, I would guess that confidentiality could be maintained whilst also establishing then extent of any Newco liability, should any exist?

  11. Dhougal

    Top piece Paul ,loving the photos making a return .Perhaps Cam will dig his head out the sand and get this moving to ”prove” there are no dodgy dealings and his ”club” are ”innocent” ?…………how about Cam ? …..do something yersels for a change ,ask some questions

  12. I am not too bothered about this document, but isn’t the FOI there to help in such instances.

  13. arb urns

    its certainly social unrest…. stuey…. the pic that is

    compensation was always my hope from LNS but he had a bad hair day when justice time came round. didnt have the balls to fine THE CLUB. sanction 6 i think it was. LNS total waste of time and money now and no closure either.

    it needed to give us a full and final settlement to move on. no sporting advantage or indeed no unfair sporting advantage…… u could die laughing at that.

    any other league in the world got reg and elig as one?, or is it for one day only in a 125 years history.

  14. Ed

    FOI Act only applies to public bodies. That means central and local govt and it’s agencies like the police, NHS, schools etc Even where a body receives some public funding it doesn’t necessarily bring it within the realm of the FOI act.

  15. I don’t buy commercial confidentiality! There should have been NO rolled up trouser leg agreement entered into in the first place! The bottom line is that Sevco were ineligible to compete in Scottish fitba’. End of.!
    This document is confidential for one reason. The contents of the document will not be received too well with the football(and probably beyond) public.
    To treat the fee paying public, with such disdain, is a despicable practise, but easily fits with the SFA mantra
    This document is anti to all the laws of the game due to the illegal subject matter of its conception. If there was anything of integrity within it. Even a smattering of honesty I would be very surprised. It is simply a crooks charter, constructed and entered into by crooks, and for the benefit of crooks!
    This document is merely an attempt to legitimise their actions, should the Brown stuff hit the twirly thing! An arse covering manoeuvre of the highest order! A corrupt piece of paper, to protect the corrupted
    The word “confidentiality” used as a veneer of respectability. It is a secret! No more, no less. A secret between our governing bodies, a disgraced crooked oldco, and a cabal of secret investors branded a newco. A newco which is ineligible to participate in our leagues and cups.
    The organisations involved in this document are in breach of the rules of the game. As such they are…. Crooked, bent, corrupt! A secret society!

    • mcfc

      @barca

      In this context Rangers awere simply too big to fail:

      Financially, the SFA/SPL/SFL as commenrcial enterprises could not tolerate the thought of all that money and all those fans just disappearing into non-league football

      Socially, the SFA/SPL/SFL as governing bodies could not tolerate the thought of being the ones who destroyed the establishment club forever.

      Personally, the SFA/SPL/SFL had (and has) too many senior officers who are too deeply conflicted to apply the rules as they are written.

      Hence the five-way stitch-up and the amaxzing rubber rule book.

      I doubt the five-way agreement was ever signed – that would be too much of a smoking gun – it served its purpose as an unattributed discussion document that all involved could later shrug off as an early draft.

      • mcfc, totally agree it was motivated by greed, all acts of corruption are. I fail to see that the SFA/SPL/SFL, would have been held responsible for their death. Sometimes “tough love” is required, and that is what the Rangers supporters needed. At least any social unrest from them, would have been directed at those internally who really were the culprits of their demise I would find that a damned sight more palatable than which currently exists, i.e. It’s everybody else’s fault
        That would probably exposed the said organisations to the ineptitude, and blind eye attitude which let it happen in the first place, but let’s be honest. That is hardly a secret despite their attempts to blanket over it .
        Whether this document was signed, or even exists, is irrelevant to my thinking. It was merely a mechanism to cheat the footballing public. In fact, if details of the agreement were released tomorrow, I would have absolutely no trust, that it would have any relation to what was, or wasn’t agreed.
        The simple truth is the bodies mentioned, plotted and connived to assist the establishment team. They showed unprecedented favouritism towards one club, but expect Joe Public to accept them as an unbiased governer. I am not Einstein, but I am neither Carson. Not many people are thank goodness!
        They have broken their own rulings, blatantly, in clear view, and totally at odds with the wishes of us, and of natural justice
        Their reasons for doing so will feed conspiracy theories for years to come, but it WAS a conspiracy! Absolutely No Doubt! Whatever their reasons, none of them are good enough. Every last one of them should be removed from office yesterday! And any replacement set up, should begin by ensuring that Craig Whyte stylee, none of the people involved should ever get near our game again! And that includes a lot of people that are still working in it today who remain as yet unscathed by their scandalous actions.

        • Of course it was motivated by greed. I am not sure I would use the word ‘conspiracy’ but they did see it as the least bad decision. But booting RFC out was never going to happen in the same way it will never happen for CFC, Hearts, Hibs and I hope DAFC. The Scottish league is already full of teams who will be no better than local interest and bless them for it. But let’s not forget that when Annan were elected most of us had to get out the maps. And, why were they elected and not Spartans.

          It’s all corrupt and has been for years. In the past the SPL’s voting set up ensured that if RFC or CFC objected it didn’t happen.

          Please look at the bigger picture. Months ago I wrote that RFC should have had their ground taken from them and sold for the benefit of the creditors, they should have sought a ground share and worked their way back to the top league using young players not the pile of rubbish they now have and I still believe that, but I have never demanded they be booted out of the league. We have what we have and we all need to learn to live with it.

          • Violet, RFC are deid! A Freudian slip? Couldn’t resist that, lol.
            It is not about them being booted out of the league. They failed in their ability to stay in it. A completely different matter.
            As a newco, they are simply not eligible to compete, and will not be until 3 yr audited accounts are available
            It really is as simple as that.

          • mick

            thought you were a hearts fan why did you have to get a map out ?

          • arb urns

            i would have let them leaseback the ground vi and pay an annual rent dont really care if it took them 50 yrs, anything just so as they didnt get away with what they did. grat alien could get us there but highly unlikely now.

            watch this space for them being jumped up leagues via some weird criteria, like number of floodlight bulbs , or u must have an ‘r ‘ in your name to be a top 24 team… ra glasgow celtic step forward !!!!!!!

  16. Ernie

    The suckers at SFA/SPL/SFL have a straight choice, if they give a phuck that is. Publish a redacted version soon or respond to the edited version that will comprise at least one chapter of Green/Jabba’s book. Too used to being controlled to see how difficult the latter will be because he/they will not give a phuck.

  17. Monti

    I wonder if Regan will be predicting ‘social unrest’ if DAFC head for administration? Will the SPL look to fast track them into the Spl to safeguard t.v. deals? Like I’ve said before Paul, Scottish football is broken beyond repair, the results of these investigations into Rangers (lL),has confirmed to me & many,many others, nothing in this country can be trusted when it comes to them,Police,Judiciary,SFA & SPL! 5 way agreements? It’s all nonsense & it doesn’t matter now any of it! Any faith I had has been smashed,from the decades of Sectarian abuse & no Sfa action in challenging it, our manager being attacked & the perpetrator gets a ‘ not provan’ verdict? The Murray compliant MSM, the demonisation of the Green brigade, the reluctance to deal strongly with Rangers in the summer! Scottish football is a joke,their collusion with Rangers is a joke,MSM reluctance to report The Rangers as a new club is a joke,Regan,Doncaster,Ogilvie & Longmuir are a disgrace to the game here. I just hope Celtic can get out & leave them to it, I don’t want Celtic to play here anymore, it’s completely broken from top to bottom! Hope your enjoying your Lamb Ogilvie! Time to go Celtic!

  18. Glad to see you’re “back on point” Mr McC; after your previous 2 posts there were mutterings in the blogosphere that you were obsessed with lying politicians…

  19. mick

    The fact there is no transparacy tells you there is something wrong and is being hidden that would shock

  20. cam

    So then mick,if there is no transparency in a dispute,a ruling and its outcome does this mean that there is something wrong/something well devo dodgy going on?Just as a benchmark,mind you.
    I want you to take your time with your reply as you may depend on it later on in this court of Australian marsupials.You can phone a friend or ask the audience.
    BTW,i would dearly love to see Raygun up in court and hiring Mr McKenzie or associates to assist him.

    • Cam, this was neither a dispute, a ruling, or an outcome It was an agreement entered into in secrecy, to determine and assist the establishment team. But aye, it is a well dodgy agreement .

      • cam

        It was a dodgy attempt at a dodgy deal by dodgy folk in Dodge.
        Luckily Chico dodged a bullet and said we will take our chances at Billy Nimmo’s poker table.
        The Coyote and his pals Yosemite Bam Doncaster and Elmer Regan Fudd would have loved the Gers to agree to the sanction loaded blackmail attempt to have the Gers cash cow in the SPL,but well done to all the other teams and fans,including Rangers fans, who wanted to start at the bottom again.
        As for all the waffle about treating Scotlands biggest club on the same level as Spartans,,,just keep taking the medication.
        You’re all gonna have to just form an orderly queue and take your dose of castor oil like good little bhoys.

        • Chicco never dodged any bullets! Chicco is part of the dodgy attempt, at a dodgy deal, by dodgy folk in dodge in fact he is the cattle rustler who is polluting the homesteaders watering hole! Judge Lawell, aided and abetted by Sherriff Lenny are waiting at the OK corral, and will run you varmints outa town if you start hollering in our saloon. Chicco would be wise to stay in his prospecting shack in his prospecting with no prospects shanty town
          The Sally gang will be gunned down if they cross town, where the decent, law abiding, godfearing town folks live .

  21. mick

    There’s lot of focus on the puma blackthorn and sports direct arena (the bigot dome)today via the article in the herald 100mil turn over lol a was thinking moonbeams all over but it Brian Stockbridge brianbeams lol it’s a bad deal via these deals with even the strip you by at there own stores not going direct to the team so how he plans to get 100m out them defys logic

    • Mick, you have to read it properly. Sevco say they will turnover 100 mill. My concern is who they are going to turn over to get it!

      • martin c

        One of the comments on the piece sums it up as PR fluff after the shiriking by Annan, i would agree with this? Player wages capped at 30% of turnover so profit on 70 million would be. . .? Minus wages for management, fixed costs etc. . .? All from the fourth tier!

        • mick

          theres a few slip up in the article about the puma deal and sports direct coining in most monies via strips lol there doomed

        • mick

          “Mr Stockbridge is adamant the club does not need to be playing in the top flight to be profitable.” bleeding 1mil a month lol

      • cam

        barca
        Do you sleep ok at night? or do you toss and turn screaming conspiracy and corruption?
        All this piffle seems to be upsetting you.
        It is all done and dusted,the Tic will win 15 in a row,nobody cares anymore,Scottish fitba is finished.
        The sectarian rivalry that financed it is gone,only to linger on in blog sites and nutjob fan forums and radio shows.
        Form a self help club,engage in role play, buy lots of Evo Stik and free your mind.
        I’ve got a new topic i’m getting my teeth into.
        The Vatican and its politics is fascinating stuff and it just goes to show mans propensity for taking something good and effing it right up.
        Check up on how Monsignor Balestrero’s “promotion” in becoming our man in Bogota,is akin to a posting to Craggy Island,,,fascinating,i do hope they make a tv series out of it all.
        http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/vatiwar-for-italians-conclave-prep.html

        • Budweiser

          cam

          I thought Balastero was transferred to AC Milan?

        • I never sleep Cam, Everybody knows not to when there is a Sevconian about.! You might be right about Scottish fitba’ being deid, but only to your mob. The rest of us are doing fine, Thriving in fact! A wee semi final against a worthy opponent on the horizon, and a league championship beckoning, to add to our tally, and pave our way to hopefully, another successful euro campaign.
          I can’t comment on the Vatican stuff. Religion isn’t my bag and I have absolutely no interest in it. I will leave that wee subject to yourself and others who are interested.

          • cam

            No its not the religious aspect i’m interested in,true God fearing Catholics are wonderful folk.
            The Catholic Churches politics are under examination here not a faith.
            Hope you enjoyed your last need of a passport and that winning titles in November keeps you interested.
            Thriving??/ rolfpmsl.

        • @cam – don’t dig too deep, you have no idea …….. what dark secret(s) or prophecy you may encounter …..
          If you must persist, …. and i warn to desist …….then to help you along your path, ……but you have been warned …..

          …….. mick ……. don’t even think of going there !

      • Barca

        You understood that!

  22. mick

    media rights and sanctions would have been at the forefront of the agreement so at which point will all be revealed also the fit and proper test of funding and backers the fact its secret stinks especially after what had just unfolded

    @barca fool me 1s full me twice full me 3 times the fans of course lol pmsl

  23. cam

    “Aye hullo doll,its mick here fae Glesga,whit it is pal its aboot the deid zombie mob we call them sevcooniaians and currants and they are indusrtial scale cheatin spivs in suites.Lord Hodge husnae goat bak tae me aboot duff and skelps so ah thoat ahd get the lowdoon fae yerself aboot the Gratchewy aliens that are floating aboot.”

    “ok sir so what exactly is the point you wish to discuss?”

    “look hen,thay cheating bent b’s huv goat cleen away wi total dopery fur 120 years and wee need transparncy”

    !Ok Mr Galloway i’ve heard your wind ups on Real radio!(whispers,contact security)

    “naw doll,he’s a tubed over tube,Tommy Golds yer man,dae ye know how to buchacha btw?”

    “i’ve got another call coming in mick so i’ll give you a number to call and they might be able to help you”

    “okey dokey doll,tell aw the guys that we ur the univerisalistic club and all inclusive in our socialism outlook and everbody luvs us and hates the bakwards cult of zombiesm”

    “thanks mick i will”

  24. mick

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21737627

    8month that to me is quiet harsh but the laws the law and should not be messed with or broken so thats life

    • Hardly harsh Mick; don’t forget it wasn’t about the driving offence, the charge was perverting the course of justice, or “defeating the ends of” as I think they call it up the road.

      Maybe if Huhne had ‘fessed up earlier instead of waiting til the day of the trial they would’ve been a wee bit more lenient on him (and then probably would’ve had to on her) but he denied it to the last.

      • mick

        @rtc yes but they are not a danger to the public a do feel non violent crime is not worthy of time in jail personally speaking you here of people gettting time all the time for things that dont merit it they have to be chaced for 150,000 of court bills so theres still lots of headlines to come on it

    • Does anyone understand this gibberish.

  25. cam

    “Aye hullo,its mick fae sunny Glesga here pal,the wee burd on the other number gave me your number so you can talk me thru yer progess wi the spiv mob and financial doping.”

    “Ah yes mick she did mention that you might call,don’t worry if you hear some clicks on the line its just a software scan we’re running on our IT”

    “Nae bother big chap ah gie ma ain keyboard a wee dust every week masell Noo kin ye tell me how the boys are getting on wi revoking the sale tae the spivs of the zombie currants? Lizziee’s tax guys and Billy Nimmo huv twisted ma melon man and we need the BDO chewy aliens tae cheer us up”

    “well mick, it is a long convoluted process,but with your help we can get this sorted.Now if you just keep talking for another few minutes we should be able to get you some help.”

    “thats brilliant big chap ah knew you would dae us a turn,haud oan theres somebody at the door,,,,wtf are you lot wanting? gtf ahm no gaun anywhere and ahm no putting that jaiket oan help help help”

    • mick

      cam am not glasgow based lol your have no idea of company policys on customer service and image any1 can phone press offices which are part of public relations and are consumer friendly you can say what you want

      • cam

        yes mick.
        When i’m bored i often phone up companies and talk crap to them.
        That probably explains the black SUV that is parked across the street.

        • mick

          cam as stakeholder in scottish football and consumer a can phone and company organisation or goverment department on it as a see fit its normal and big business encorages it your just daft you should be doing it to to green about the deeds lol

          • cam

            mick,i love it when you phone these folk,,,please continue and keep telling us how you get on.
            My daftness is undeniable mick, and my delutionary medications are helping and in another 5 years i’ll join you on the picket line outside Hampden to stop the SFSPLFLA stripping Celtic of its horse meat tainted titles due to steroid contamination and the wearing of bra’s by ineligible diddies.

  26. 8 months is quite harsh ? Really Mick ! This from a fairminded man like yourself who had Rangers guilty and had the punishment dished out before the trial !

  27. cam

    Back on topic.
    I certainly feel that there are enough clever folk in here who could with Pauls guidance raise a civil action to have the 5 way stitch up revealed.
    I would gladly donate a pound to that good cause.
    You can buy an institution for a quid so justice shouldn’t be too expensive.

    • Cam, Call me psychic,(not Sally tho) but I sense you see the 5 way thing as a stitch up. I reckon that would be down to the title stripping issue, which big ‘ands Kaybeed. Are you not interested what the agreement consists of? Thereis only Chicco frugal truth’s, word that it played a part. Assuming it was part of it, then he must have relinquished something else in return. Football debts fair enough, or he wouldn’t have paid them, but what else? It’s only speculation, but honestly, your best stab at it. BTW. I never looked at the Vatican stuff, I thought you were just fishing. Nae offence.

      • cam

        I’ve gotta go to work now and assist my fellow citizens who have decided to forego the weekly slog in order to find the perfect bottle of Frosty Jack.
        I shall muse upon the hidden parts of the Grail whilst manning the machine gun in the Huey tonight.
        Was their not a leaked copy of the 5 easy pieces to the press?
        I shall attempt to twist your very fine melon tomorrow.
        I never take offence unless its good quality scrap and the watchy is sleeping.

    • portpower

      @cam you could`ve bought oldco with your 1 pound donation and we would`nt be in this predicament. cam for sevco CEO.

  28. ecojon

    Rangers International
    78.00p
    -2.00p (-2.50%)
    Mar 11 – Close

    Doesn’t look as though news of the Moonbeam £100 million turnover announced today has filtered through to London Institutional Investors yet or the share price would have soared. Still there’s always tomorrow,

    I notice that Stockbridge the Finance Director says Rangers are thinking about opening shops in Belfast and Glasgow Airport – Did Chuckles not claim on his trip to Oz that the leases hadalready been signed for both shops.

    He’ll need to get that memory sorted-out if he wants to remain the Wizard of Oz 🙂

  29. cam

    Aw jeez,,,fun over,the thumbmeister general is here.
    Mr canned laughter himself,,,,groan.

  30. mick

    the most intresting thing to pop up over the weekend was the deserts or just deserts comment that really is well intreguing and just shows the level of intelligence on here

    • cam

      Most comments in here,mine included! are like grains of sand,plentiful,very similar and not good at a picnic.
      Some of them irritate when they get stuck in yer gusset.

  31. Ed

    They can be profitable outside the top division? A week after reporting a £7.1m operating loss for 7 months? Are they going to have the most expensive season tickets in the UK next season? The bigot pound must be weathering austerity better than the rest of us. Oh and all these sponsors who are eager to associate themselves with the Rangers brand – just what is it that is so appealing to them that will bring in £20m a season. Is it the sectarian history, the disgraceful riot in Manchester, the tax cheating, the remembrance day triumphalism, the “traditional” songbook or is it the charmless CEO whose mouth is so big he can eat bananas sideways. Or maybe Mr Stockbridge is just panicking a wee bit because the business plan required top flight football two years earlier than he is going to get it.

  32. mick

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21699305
    Sexuality, political leanings and even intelligence can be gleaned from the things you choose to “like” on Facebook, a study suggests.

    Researchers at Cambridge University used algorithms to predict religion, politics, race and sexual orientation.

    The research, published in the journal PNAS, forms surprisingly accurate personal portraits, researchers said.

    The findings should “ring alarm bells” for users, privacy campaigners said.

    The study used 58,000 volunteers who alongside their Facebook “likes” and demographic information also provided psychometric testing results – designed to highlight personality traits.

    The Facebook likes were fed into algorithms and matched with the information from the personality tests.

    The algorithms proved 88% accurate for determining male sexuality, 95% accurate in distinguishing African-American from Caucasian-American and 85% for differentiating Republican from Democrat.

    Christians and Muslims were correctly classified in 82% of cases and relationship status and substance abuse was predicted with an accuracy between 65% and 73%.

    The links clicked rarely explicitly revealed these attributes. Fewer than 5% of gay users clicked obvious likes such as gay marriage, for instance.

    Instead, the algorithms aggregated huge amounts of likes such as music and TV shows to create personal profiles.

    It also threw up some strange pairings.

    “Curly fries correlated with high intelligence and people who liked the Dark Knight tended to have fewer Facebook friends,” said research author David Stillwell.

    Data rethink

    The study will be music to the ears of social media firms keen to make more money from customers via personalised marketing.

    But the researchers warned that the digital profiles people are creating also threaten privacy.

    “I appreciate automated book recommendations, or Facebook selecting the most relevant stories for my newsfeed. However, I can imagine situations in which the same data and technology is used to predict political views or sexual orientation, posing threats to freedom or even life,” said Michael Kosinski, lead researcher on the project.

    There are simple things users can do, said Mr Stillwell.

    “Facebook likes are public by default but it is not that Facebook is forcing you to make them public; you have a choice to change your privacy settings.”

    He stressed that the results had implications beyond social media to all digital records – from browser histories to search queries.

    “This research should ring alarm bells for anyone who thinks that privacy settings are the solution to protecting information online. We need to fundamentally re-think how much data we are voluntarily sharing,” said Nick Pickles, director of privacy campaign group Big Brother Watch.

    “Sharing individual likes or pages might not seem hugely intrusive, but it allows individuals to be categorised and behaviour predicted in areas that are far more personal and sensitive than people realise.

    “Yet again, it is clear the lack of transparency about how users’ data is being used will lead to entirely justified fears about our data being exploited for commercial gain.”

    a wonder what the researchers would make of us on here with our thumps up thumps down very intresting article

    • Mick

      You are one sad individual. You’re not the sad guy in the pub that everyone kicks are you?

    • Ed

      When you get right down to it we are all saddos desperately seeking the affirmation of strangers. We all maybe need to get down to the pub more often.
      It is a really interesting article though Mick. Thanks.

      • mick

        Not at all ed your better to stay home and blog you will live longer due to not killing your liver vi is upset as she is desperate for thumps up but does not know how to debate properly due to her having a twisted deluded supiorority complex mentioning kickings in pub is the clatterings of a violent mind devil troll

  33. @Paul, i think your hypothetical post makes the assumption that commercial confidentiality ‘may be’ offered as a reason for non-disclosure and that a court would consider the argument of confidentiality (in this hypothetical situation), is surely flawed !
    In the first instance the LNS inquiry were given sight of this document ….
    From LNS: ….
    REASONS for Decision dated 12 September 2012

    ‘It (Newco) became a member of the Scottish Football Association (“the SFA”), the governing body of the sport in Scotland. These events were reflected in an agreement among the SFA, the SPL, the SFL, Oldco and Newco which was concluded on 27 July 2012 and in this Commission’s proceedings is referred to as “the 5-Way Agreement”.

    … and so we have our ‘first’ known ………. that it provided for membership of the SFA.

    We can though assume that you are correct in the assumption that it provided the roadmap for that membership, and the actual terms of that agreement are unknown ……. or are they ?

    Now we also have a further revleation …….. this time from the SFA ….
    on 7:42 AM – Aug 7, 2012, on on the Official SFA Twitter feed they stated …

    “As per 5-way agreement, club are in process of repaying football debt both in Scotland and abroad”

    … and so we have our ‘second’ known ………… that as part of the agreement that all football debt be repaid.

    … And importantly, the SFA have broken any confidentiality terms by, even partly, disclosing this part of the agreement (Am i correct Paul ?)

    ………. Interestingly, care of CG himself, we know that the SFA and the SPL tried to force Newco into accepting the loss of titles, and rejected …….. and so the likelyhood is ………… and this is where the SFA/SPL (if correct) have erred Big Time …….. in that, tney almost certainly settled on agreeing that all parties would be bound by the LNS decision ……. A Big risk by Newco, but would have had no alternative ……… and will further explain why CG stated that he would be un-cooperative ……………. It Paid Off Big Time …….. !

    Now if i am correct (in My Hypothetical …), then the agreement offered No route for appeal …. by all parties ……. rather full acceptance …….. OMG !
    Under this scenario, there is No Way the SPL or SFA will want to allow this document to see the light of day ……. might explain their statement following the decision …. and that they have no recourse under the terms of the 5-way Agreement …………. Could this be their Achilles Heel ???????

    And of course, and at the same time CG has a huge Yorkshire Cricket Bat to threaten them with whenever he chooses ……… !!!!

    and so i propose a hypothetical third ‘known’ ……

    A bit of trawling reveils knowns four and five ………… but hey, i’ll leave them hanging for now ….. as thats probably a bit too much info already for all ……. and anyway i’m tired …….

    Night cam …………
    mick ….. note the spacing out …. it helps mate.

    • … knowns 4 and 5 will have to wait guys ‘n’ gals, i’m back off to tracking further info on MS allegedly about to be fined circa $1bn on non-payment of Corporation Tax in Denmark, following Tax authorities ‘getting’ them on sale of assets at less than market value to third party company (in Ireland) ……. could be a big one about to blow …. other European states including UK watching with more than a keen interest ..

      …. and still analysing upcoming IPCC data/report (leaked) for further inferences to Oldco and climate change ……… duck newtz !

    • Oh what the heck ….. i’ll give you known 4 then ……

      Part of said agreement was of course to waive the prize money for the Club’s second place finish in season 2011/12, a sum which was still due to be paid to the Oldco as per SPL rules.

      I’ll leave it to you guys to figure out the source ……….. i mean …. it’s not fair me doing all the donkey work …..
      ok …… work out the source and i’ll give you known 5 …… Paul you don’t count ….. ! …… as he has already mentioned the answer elsewhere within his many blogs …….. LOL

      • A nice wee bit of homework there newtz. Waiving second place purse has always puzzled me. They played the season without paying PAYE or NI.. Waiving the purse is not a waiver, but a consequence!

      • Oh you lazy shower ……….. ‘known 5’ is the acceptance of the transfer embargo, thus saving SFA problems with UEFA/FIFA …… source …..
        Well since you have all long moved on, i guess you’re not interested in the remaing ‘knowns’ and sources ……….. hey ho ….. your loss …………

  34. lordmac

    with a scotland game coming up a banner would be nice asking to see the 5 way agreement

  35. Den

    A certain troll has been very busy today.

    It is very strange when the three bodies who oversee Scottish Football sit down with a Company that cannot maintain its membership of two of them and fast track its newly formed, nominated successor into the structure. This agreement is then kept secret.

    Send for the City of London Police.

  36. Fra

    The whole establishment is rotten to the core and not fit for purpose. A bunch of incompetent, out of their depth, freeloaders. How in Gods name is Campbell Ogilvie still in a job. A so-called fantastic administrator. Was this title bestowed on him by the MSM in Scotland which has been shown to be in the pocket of Minty Moonbeams. He wasn’t even sent on gardening leave ffs. LNS says there was no sporting advantage gained. Does he live on the moon. Even sevco fans knew he dodged them a bullet with that statement. Send sevco to the bowels of English football and send the whole rag tag bunch of cheats in the governing bodies with them. Elect another executive from scratch and delete the stench of corruption once and for all from our the game we all love. No secrets. No funny handshakes. Open and transparent from day one and if this model is unsuccessful then so be it. At least it would be clean. When is the Celtic board or any other going to put their head above the parapet and say what the supporters are thinking. After all, they are only custodians of our great club. Stop saying ‘we don’t need them’, grow a pair and say ‘we don’t want them’. Not now or ever because the oldco is dead and the newco is a nastier newer version filled with hate and venom. I feel much better now.

    • casm

      It is just like a zombie mantra all you whinging Tic fans spout.
      Lobbing defamatory statements about officials,refs,administrators,other teams and fans.
      Why don’t you just take a long walk and go count sheep.
      Stop reading the crazy web sites,read a book and stop being a poor wee martyr,,,its pathetic.
      There we go,thats your feel good factor oot the windae!

    • You are right Fra, You know it, I know it, and the whole of Scottish fitba’ knows it. I don’t know which is the most disheartening. The fact that our game is run by crooks in a moral vaccuum, or that none of our clubs have the cajonies to
      Blow some fresh air in and flush them out!

  37. Proud Scot

    Wouldn’t it be funny (awkward?) if the 5 way agreement came with a side letter ?

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