The “Charlotte Fakes” phenomenon is something which could only have existed now – in an age where teh Interwebz allows people with an obsession interest in a subject to discuss and share information outwith the normal strictures of the media.
Professor Greg Philo, of the Glasgow University Media Group, believes that the problem with the media is not so much the differing stances it takes on issues but rather the refusal to cover certain topics at all, with this being a trait across the industry.
I wrote about Professor Philo and his thesis following a talk he gave to the Scottish Press Club and I applied his thoughts to coverage at that time (back in early 2012) of the Rangers story by the Scottish media. You can read the piece here.
We now have, in the Charlotte Fakes story, a perfect example, in a post-modern or meta way, of the subject.
For those who do not know, Charlotte Fakes appeared on the web publishing what seem to be documents, emails and recordings from and to several of the players in the Rangers saga. Despite many of these raising important issues about the progression of Rangers from Murray to Whyte to Green, the main stream media has reported little or nothing revealed by the dogged Charlotte.
However there have been reports about the fact that the media is not reporting what Charlotte is revealing, whilst, at the same time these reports do not discuss what Charlotte has placed in the public domain.
Therefore the media coverage, which has itself been very limited, is not of the stories coming from the document mine located by Charlotte, but rather reporting on the non-coverage.
To anyone who has not been following Charlotte’s revelations on the web, the story must seem baffling.
Why the silence?
One of “The Silence” from Doctor Who – I hope no one takes this as a reference to anyone else mentioned in this post
It seems that doubts or concerns about the means by which the documents have been produced have petrified the media into ignoring any issues raised in them. There has been little or no discussion about whether or not they are genuine – the opinions on the internet which I have seen, from pro-Rangers, anti-Rangers and Rangers-neutral commenters, all seem to have little doubt about the information being legitimate.
Indeed the actions of certain parties in using solicitors to force, for example, the Scribd website to take down some of the documents suggests that they are genuine. Coverage of the story too which makes reference to a police investigation hints that the inquiry is into how the information was obtained, rather than how someone was faking documents for some nefarious reason.
In the media world post-Leveson Inquiry the press are terrified, it seems, of being accused of using illegally obtained material (even where there is, as far as I am aware, no evidence that any of the information has been obtained illegally). And the “public interest” defence seems also to have been put on the back burner – after all the story is (a) one which is of great interest to the public and (b) bearing in mind the status of Rangers, as declared by its fans, of being “the second most important institution in Scotland” and also one recognised by Mr Salmond when he commented on the potential demise of Rangers last year, it is a story which is of “public interest”.
Cynics might suggest that the concerns as to the provenance of the Charlotte documents in fact allows the Scottish media to continue to indulge in, as regards coverage of Rangers, “succulent lamb” journalism.
Even bloggers have refrained from detailed analysis of the substance of the stories. Why should the fearless folk who frequent the unregulated areas of the web be cowed from reporting and analysing in detail what has been said?
For my part I can say that having two Messengers-At-Arms delivering a formal letter at 10.30pm demanding that I remove certain material from my blog by midnight (as happened last October) concentrates the mind. And, for my part, although I believed that I had done nothing wrong in commenting on material which was widely available on the internet, to be frank the time and expense involved in fighting a case in the Court of Session in Edinburgh against a company such as The Rangers Football Club Ltd were not things I could afford. (I should make clear that, despite some gleeful comments at the time, there was no court action raised nor, as a result, was there any court order granted against me.)
When you do this as a hobby, and are locatable, it is easy for the “big battalions” to attempt to silence you.
Clearly Charlotte is not locatable, because if so her flow of documents would have ceased by now.
So, against that background, why have I mentioned Mr Leggat in the headline?
Yesterday he bravely confronted this informal omerta and commented in detail on correspondence leaked by Charlotte, being what bears to be an exchange of correspondence between Mr Green/Rangers and the SFA.
Mr Leggat makes certain comments about “money laundering” which I do not propose to repeat here and raises questions about the bona fides of some of the participants in the story.
Mr Leggat clearly feels that, despite the concerns which have prevented the Scottish media, Channel 4 News and the Guardian from going into detail about what Charlotte has to say, he should climb the battlements and wave the banner of free speech.
Oddly a couple of the Rangers-supporting message boards which I looked at showed that the perception of Charlotte seemed to have changed. Whereas before any comment upon Charlotte referred directly to what she had produced, and was usually followed by calls for her to be prosecuted with the full vigour of the law for seeking to damage Rangers, the response to Mr Leggat’s bravery was not to question the veracity or source of the information, but to focus on its merits.
So three cheers for the bold master of the “inky trades” and, if Bill Struth was about today, I am sure that Mr Leggat would be his blogger of choice, and not just because Mr Leggat wrote a book about him!*
*Correction – I must apologise to the spirit of the late Mr Struth – to the late Scot Symon (about whom the book actually is – there being a tiny clue in the title and indeed plastered all over the front cover) and to Mr Leggat. The book is of course not about Mr Struth. (But see further correction below.)
Available in all good book stores!
Further correction – Mr Leggat has indeed written a book about Mr Struth – but it has not yet been published.
Soon to be available in all good book stores
Final PS – I hope if I ever reach the point of having a book published, Mr Leggat will publicise it on his blog!
Posted by Paul McConville
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
Isn’t that book about Scot Symon not Bill Struth?
Think your right m8
Yes guys – you are quite right! Thanks for pointing it out to me.
But how am I supposed to get right who the book is – after all, apart from the picture of the man, the name of the book and the narrative on the cover which actually mentions Scott Symon, what clue could there be!
I have made a correction, but will leave my mistake there for amusement purposes.
Paul
And, as you will see from my now added further correction, Mr Leggat HAS written a book about Mr Struth – so I was not dreaming.
(I should make clear that I was NOT under any circumstances dreaming about Mr Leggat however!)
Well done Paul, a wee chuckle to start the day is always good Craic,think you may have the full library of Mr Leggats books,anything you want to share.
@Jimmy Bee
Indeed Jimmy,and he’s now the best friend of Mr Mc Murdo junior.
I suspect a sleeper agent ( orange ) scenario 🙂
I think you should write a book about me Paul.
There’s a play about you,,,The Vagina Monologues
cam… I see in the last blog you have threw yourself onto Niall like he was a passing life raft………..Not a life raft mate, but bit of passing flotsam & jetsam.
Flotsam & Jetsam (or jetson.)
flotsam : goods found floating on the sea after a wreck
jetsam : things thrown out of a ship to lighten it
I’ll give you that one Cam…..:)
Decent effort!
It’s just possible that the identity of Charlotte has today been inadvertently revealed by the much maligned MSM. Access to all intelligence gathering networks and processes ? Check. Told in rather unsavoury terms to go away home by the inclusive passengers aboard SS Dignity ? Check. Gone home ? Check. Dim the lights. (Drum roll)…Curtains ! http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/head-of-the-cia-turns-up-at-gathering-event-in-roscommon-1.1496866
@The Hidden Fortress
Thanks for that,great story.
The photograph of Obama and all his “wise men” and my BFF Hillary,taken in the White House while watching the capture of bin Laden,is interesting to the Irish diaspora ( well me anyway ) Among
those present were:
Joe Biden,Vice President,Irish American RC
Denis Mc Donagh,Deputy National Security Advisor,Irish American RC
Admiral Mike Mullen,Chief of Joint Chiefs of Staff,Irish American RC
Tom Donilon,Assisstant to the President for National Security Affairs,Irish American RC
William M Daley,White House Chief of Staff,Irish American RC.
and of course Mr Brennan,now head of the CIA.
“Taigs in high places” indeed.Do you think anyone asked them which school they went to,or helpfully advised them to get “back on the ferry?”
I’m going to guess NO. 🙂
I love the meritocracy in America.
Well for my amusement purposes the good lord, in his infinite wisdom chose to provide me with three lovely moments in the Rangers farce.
I can’t choose which is the funniest but i only have to imagine the looks on the faces of the three s̶t̶o̶o̶g̶e̶s̶ victims to roll around laughing.
So in no particular order
1; Arty on that lovely day in November 2012
2; Paul on his doorstep at 10.30
3; Rotund Roderick dropping the ball
Comedy gold.
I have my own favourite moment in ” the Rangers farce “……it came when Craig whyte’s offer of £1 was accepted by Dodgy Dave Murray!
Administration being announced by Jim White on SSN runs a close second & winning the LAST Old firm game EVER 3-0, comes in third……:D
I’ll settle for their death
You and every other loonball haven’t been blessed with immortality,therefore you will just have to imagine that.
DAILY RECORD
Scots billionaire Craig Whyte set to buy Rangers for £30m
EXCLUSIVE: A Scots billionaire is on the brink of buying Rangers. Talks with tycoon Craig White over a £30million takeover early next year are believed to be at an advanced stage
Walter Smith will be handed a massive January cheque book if Scots billionaire Craig Whyte succeeds in his £30million bid to buy Rangers.
‘Life is a tragedy for those who feel, and a comedy for those who think.’
Jean de la Bruyere maybe
Comedy to me. Black tragedy to little Cam.
Poor little Cam
You certainly do walk into them.
Morag, do you let him out on his own?
@Cregganduff EXCLUSIVE: A Scots billionaire is on the brink of buying Rangers.
The difference in writing, Paul has a laugh at his own expense and corrects the mistake. The daily Record without a blush make no attempt to inform their readers they got it wrong with the above lie and then attempt to sell the Rangers fans more bullshit on a daily basis. This was the biggest succulent lamb story ever recorded in Scottish Football and has to be queried as to who gave the reporter the exclusive lie. It is time the real football fans boycott these papers and the manipulated journalists who will do whatever the piper calls.Not one credential was checked before this story broke, how many Scots billionaires are there in the world?
Richest People In Scotland 2012
1. Mahdi al-Tajir, Oil / Metals / Water – £1,600m
2. The Grant and Gordon family, Spirits – £1,400m
3. Alastair Salvesen and family, Transport / Plant hire – £1,300m
4. Sir Ian Wood and family, Oil services / Fishing – £1,187m
5. Jim McColl, Engineering – £1,000m
6. Lord Laidlaw, Conferences – £745m
7. The Thomson family, Media – £700m
8. Sir Brian Souter and Ann Gloag, Transport – £665m
9. Joanne Rowling, Novels, Films – £560m
10. The Duke of Sutherland, Land / Art – £525m
11. Sir Arnold Clark and family, Car sales – £467m
12. Ian Suttie, Oil – £450m
13. Philip Day, Fashion – £300m
14. Roger Jenkins, Finance – £272m
15. Brian Kennedy, Kitchens, Windows – £250m
16. Bill Paterson, Engineering services – £235m
17= Harry Dobson, Mining / Oil – £200m
17= James and Fitriani Hay, Oil / Horseracing – £200m
19= The Duke of Buccleuch and family, Land, Art – £180m
19= Graham Wylie, Software – £180m
21. Tony and Christina Quinn, Pet food – £174m
22. John Lynch and family, Construction – £165m
23= Eric Herd and family, Frozen food – £160m
23= Colin and Chris Weir, Lottery – £160m
25. Ian Taylor, Commodities / Fashion – £155m
26. Willie Haughey and family, Refrigeration – £152m
27= Sir Angus Grossart and family, Finance – £150m
27= Walter Scott, Finance – £150m
29. Ian MacKechnie and family, Finance – £146m
30= Tom and Linda Cross, Oil services – £140m
30= Stewart Milne and family, Construction – £140m
32. Douglas Craig and family, Oil services / Fishing – £138m
33. Sir Tom Farmer, Property / Car parts – £136m
34. Sir Richard George and family, Food – £135m
35. Derek Mickel and family, Construction – £134m
36. Lennie and Iain McGeoch, Retailing – £132m
37. Alexander and Alan Turner, Industry – £130m
38= Robin Barr and family, Drinks £125m
38= Alasdair Locke, Oil services – £125m
40. Norman Springford and family, Hotels – £124m
41. Audrey Baxter and family, Food – £122m
42= Michael Freeman, Oil services – £120m
42= Hugh Irvine and family, Cheese – £120m
42= John Ray, Offshore services – £120m
45. Joe Walker and family, Biscuits – £115m
46= The Marquess of Bute, Land / Art – £110m
46= Tommy Dreelan and family, Oil services – £110m
46= Aaron and Tania Hillman and family, Spirits – £110m
49. Roy MacGregor and family, Energy services – £106m
50. Tom and Alan Fergusson, Fuel distribution – £105m
51. Johannes de Gier, Hedge fund – £103m
52. The Duke of Roxburghe, Land – £100m
53= Alan and Ronnie Bartlett, Vegetables – £97m
53= Sir John Mactaggart and family, Property – £97m
55. Larry Kinch, Oil services – £96m
56= John Muir and family, Construction – £95m
56= Dick Watson and family, Construction – £95m
58. Steven Ferguson, Gas services / Oil services – £94m
59. Bruce Walker and family, Construction – £93m
60= Colin Cornes, Waste services / Mining – £90m
60= James Milne and family, Engineering – £90m
60= Robert Wiseman and family, Milk – £90m
63= Duncan Bannatyne, Hotels / Fitness clubs – £85m
63= The Macdonald family, Spirits – £85m
63= Sir Fraser and Gordon Morrison, Construction – £85m
63= Lord Tanlaw and family, Engineering – £85m
67= Robert Adair, Oil / Property / Gas – £80m
67= Alexander Buchan and family, Transport / Fishing – £80m
67= Sandy Bulloch and family, Drinks – £80m
67= Sir Sean Connery, Films – £80m
67= Bob Kidd, Oil services – £80m
72. Douglas Park and family, Car sales / Transport – £78m
73= Mark Deere, Software – £72m
73= Hamid Guedroudj, Software – £72m
75= Gordon Bonnyman, Finance – £70m
75= Keith Miller and family, Construction – £70m
77. Sandy Nairn, Finance – £69m
78= The Earl of Rosebery, Land / Art – £67m
78= Alastair Wylie, Construction – £67m
80= Ian Grabiner, Retailing – £65m
80= Mark Knopfler, Music – £65m
80= Michael Loggie, Oil services – £65m
83. Graeme Speirs, Offshore services – £63m
84= Pete Cashmore, Internet – £60m
84= Afzal and Akmal Khushi, Clothing – £60m
84= David Moulsdale, Opticians – £60m
87= The Earl of Inchcape, Land / Investment – £59m
87= Joan Scott-Adie and family, Food distribution – £59m
89= John Dodd, Finance – £58m
89= Michael Walker and family, Timber – £58m
91= Malcolm Allan and family, Construction – £55m
91= Fred Duncan, Food – £55m
91= James and Robert McNeil, Home furnishing / Property – £55m
91= John and James Pirrie, Generators – £55m
95= Duncan Fletcher and family, Construction – £54m
95= Charles Ritchie, Engineering – £54m
95= Mark Tyndall, Finance – £54m
98= John Campbell and family, Food – £52m
98= Kevin Doyle, Hospitality / Investment £52m
98= Dario Franchitti and Ashley Judd, Films, Motor racing – £52m
98= Ian Galloway and family, Meat – £52m
[Source: The Sunday Times 2012 UK Rich List]
@paul am I missing something here tried for the last half oor and cannae find oor cragie anwhere.is this a wind up
Here’s another one, now serving 12 years for being a corrupt Bas*ar*.
:D….class!
Chortle!
Cheers Creggs….
Afternoon Monti old bhoy,,,that mother of all skelpings i dished out to you earlier before my kip, conjured up a picture of you standing there in your theme bar dressed up like a garden gnome,drinking a pint of green lager and doing your plastic paddy routine to a fellow loonball from the bhog.
Then i enter the scene wearing a giant pair of those Kenny Everett style foam hands,taking a 50yd run up and administering the loudest beggar skelping of all time,,,hang on,,,yeah ,,,even better, i’m the wee Orange Tango guy.SKELP!
Zzzzzzzzzzz
Mr McCoist still wants to spend spend spend according to the record this morning,I ask you a wee hypothetical question,if ally had won the most important games of his managerial career , the CL qualifiers,would rangers be in the same place they are today,or would they have survived,and be in the top flight under Craig whyte, knowing now how the big tax went.
On recent turn of events,Charles Green knows that a cup final spot,would send the succulent lamb into a frenzy. The pr generated from any cup final place would be far more beneficial financially,than any third tier league title.
He also knows that the club has a team that should be able to achieve that goal,unfortunately he also knows that he has a manager whom he doesn’t trust to achieve that goal. IMO quite rightly so…..but ally must stay.
let him spend,spend & spend even more…he is a dud!
@monti when did that happen before.
for every fiver ring a bell to the stupid
@ monti one letter wrong
If indeed the charlotte letters recently published between: Green/SFA, note again in Greens reply, his words in relation to obtaining the club from Whyte. Worthington/Merchant Legal; who intend to claim Whyte was ‘duped’ out of ownership by Green/Ahmad, will no doubt use this to strenghten their claim which in turn may have dire consequences for rangers. Have Worthington/ML been tipped off? Will the SFA be called to court in this action? How would EUEFA view this?
“A lie told often enough becomes the truth” Lenin
Extract (Page 27) from Quotations from the book of Media Control by Noam Chomsky
The bewildered herd is a problem. We’ve got to prevent their roar and trampling. We’ve got to distract them. They should be watching the Superbowl or sitcoms or violent movies. Every once in a while you call on them to chant meaningless slogans like “Support our troops.” You’ve got to keep them pretty scared, because unless they’re properly scared and frightened of all kinds of devils that are going to destroy them from outside or inside or somewhere, they may start to think, which is very dangerous, because they’re not competent to think. Therefore it’s important to distract them and marginalize them.
Does that sound anything like what is happening to the Rangers support?
Gobsmacked
Did you get this from the Rankers News
I hope Morag saw it and is trying to explain it to WEE Cam does she call him WEE Cam because he is to big for the couch but to WEE for the bed? HAIL HAIL
A lie told often enough becomes the truth” Lenin
But it will always be a lie and a truth will always be the truth
Surely it is not beyond the wit of the meeja to have their cake and eat it in the case of Charlotte. I mean, write an article that is both condemnatory and revelatory. For example: ‘ Yet more revelations from the disgraceful Charlotte Fakeover. Can the authorities do nothing to stop this malicious person publishing material harmful to Sevco? Why, only today we were presented with documents suggesting there is concern at the SFA of money laundering in Govan. Of course there are serious doubts about the veracity of this material, and a statement from the parties being traduced will surely be forthcoming—blah blah blah.
Something like that, but tidied up a bit—-or a lot.
dan.
Any statement from them ,would condemn them for the silence of the lambs.
Was browsing the bearsden board yesterday and someone had started a thread entitled Charlottes Fakes. The purpose of doing so, he or she claimed, was to appeal to fellow bears to stop giving oxygen to this rangers hater!! He or she also made the statement for all the world to see “whether they are genuine or not stop discussing them” Wit? Please don’t burst my bubble by telling me it was an undercover bhoy at the wind up:D
I liked “the Imran Ahmad Gang” very wild west and Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
” Early in the film, Butch and Sundance come back to their hideout at Hole-In-The-Wall.
They find that Butch’s role as leader of the gang is being challenged by Harvey. Harvey is a huge man and after a bit of negotiating, they decide on a knife fight to figure out who will be in charge.
Butch, as he approaches Harvey: ”Now before we get started, let’s get the rules straight.”
Harvey: “Rules? There’s no rules in a knife fight!”
Butch, hauls off and kicks Harvey square in the balls. Harvey doubles over in excruciating pain
Butch: “No rules?. Okay. somebody say 1,2,3 go!”
Sundance: “1,2,3, GO!”
Butch puts both hands together and knocks Harvey flat.”
So who is the handsome charismatic Butch and who is the lumbering ox and fall guy Harvey?. And who is Sundance, the lethal enforcer with the fast gun?
A general point of note the receiving bank receives along with any funds an assurance and official clearance from the sending bank. Thus maintaining the audit trail for any funds “in play and on record”. I deposit of this size can assuredly be one monitored not only by UK banks but US Treasury as well. If the funds were not within the banking system then the receiving bank requires to initiate ML scrutiny of where the funds have originated from. For examole if they were a cash deposit, then certificates of origin have to be produced for the bank to be satisfied and clear the funds onto the account. Given that any cash deposit of £1000 attracts a droconian set checks and balances I know that £137500 will be additionally scrutinised to ensure that the receiving bank has not breached any ML rules or regulations, as it is the bank who are ultimately responsibile as well as the sending individual and institution. So Mr A’s mama on this occasion is not responsible but her bank and the sender, whoever in may be. Assuming the bank has correctly conducted ML screening of the sender and received audit confirmation of the source funds then there is no ML concerns here.
What is more concerning is the reason and background of the funds being sent to Mr A’s mothers account. Given his histroy in FS he is well aware of the business requirements and this can only be seen as a method of masking the funds for either the reasons he has presented or something akin to avoidance to tax, not something I am accusing the parties of. He was obviously aware that the funds would be going into his mothers account as I am pretty sure he would have provided the banking co ordinates to Whyte, I don’t see Mr A’s mother sitting at the table controlling the negotiations, however on reflection and given the mess, ( no disrespect Mrs A ) it is possible that she is the “goldfinger” behind these operations.
To address your point, Paul, about the MSM in general not being willing to use these documents and the leaking of such information, I agree that if this was something that “affected” a wider audience in the UK then it would almost certainly be seized upon and be front page news for many weeks.
The fact is that its seen by most a “local” problem and not one to get concerned about. What people forget IMO is that the many breaches of UK wide regulations have been made by this group( oldco, newco, Lloyds, MIH, sfa, spl, sfl, fringe players (not footballers) associated with all these companies and institutions alike, duff and duffer, even down to BDO. All these companies and groups of individuals have at one time or another been privy to sensitive information. Have they acted with concert to deprive first the paying rangers public of the club and institution they dearly love? Have they acted to willfully withhold taxes from the british coffers which the institutions claim they dearly love? Have they acted without regard for any other members of the football associations that they were leading members of in regarding their own future more important then the collective? Have they according to information in public domain and not disputed or challenged by any of the individuals or companies acted to swindle, oppress, manipulate, avoid, breach rules, regulations and laws both in company and according to articles of association? Have they purposfully mislead the fans that keep the lifes blood of the club alive on a weekly basis over many years?
If the answer to any of these questions is yes then if ever a proper full judicial independent and seperate criminal enquiry should be undertaken then it is now. What are the SFO doing regarding all the wealth of documentation on general realse. The content of which clearly indicates a long standing criminal practises on various different levels?
Will these enquiries take place? Simply no, and why? Because they are the people and they are now as always seen to be above the law of any land and nothing has changed. Sad reflection of Scottish society and the wider UK community in this modern world where truth will always out.
Utterly ridiculous stream of emotional responses shrouded in lofty and very badly defined notions of law, the public good, and blah, blah, blah.
Just crap.
What exactly is ridiculous and wha is crap? What badly defined “notions” of law? if you cannot engage with supporting counter then stick to your usual drivel and piss off.
@michael
According to m-theory there may be 11 dimensions and an infinite number of universes, somewhere out there may be a parallel universe where your fantasies represent reality. However in our reality there is nothing to report, no conspiracy, no cover up, just gossip edited for effect.
I bet if you asked 100 people about Charlotte Fakes they would check for sharp objects and exits, you and your fellow internet groupies are caught up in a bubble, it is just like an alternative universe, and the bubble is slowly deflating.
Time to come home son, in space no one can hear you scream.
@steakbake
If something is fake then in time the the fake will be spotted.Why are the media not informing the readers about it by doing some good journalism and why is no-one speaking out about the stories.It is like someone selling you an East Fife scarf with Sevco 5088 emblazoned upon it, i am sure you would point out to the seller this is not genuine East Fife merchandise.
Hello Paul,
You seem to be ignorant of the laws of this land, publishing stories without verification ends in court, it is called libel damages. Instead of wasting mental energy about bad journalism, ask yourself why the source of this material will not allow bad journalists to verify its claims.
Steerpike
August 17, 2013 at 6:54 pm
…ask yourself why the source of this material, (Charlotte Fakes) will not allow bad journalists to verify its claims.
———————————————————————————–
Because the suspicion is that the hacks would be more interested in outing the source of the material than in the material itself.
I’ll be glad when “The Rangers”, and perhaps “The The Rangers” are safely and permanently buried, and the frantic efforts of denial by loony Rangers fans comes top a whimpering end.
Not long now.
FYI I regularly engage with money transfers of sums of money where they start at around $30,000 up to the m’s then please enlighten as the banks and international attorneys will be eager to learn where they have failded in the banking laws of AML/ATM/ACF legilation that is in place worldwide.
I also do not see any emotion in the post, simply well informed observations unlike any posts I have had the misfortune to read.
FYI
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/mlr/your-role/suspicious-transaction.htm
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/MLR/
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/advice/practice-notes/aml/
http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/aml/#.Ug9R5z9KXEI
http://www.fatf-gafi.org/
When you have finished reading the associated links then please tell me where I have been inaccurate in any of the basic points I have raised.
michael,
I have to be honest here, your first post affected my will to live and the follow up has me on the helplines.
I agree with everything you said, just please stop.
Gort!
Wrong side of bed?
Wrong bed?
Didn’t get your leg over?
Hangover ?
Toast burned.. again?
You hate Man. U?
The wife’s having an affair with the coalman?
Etc.
Why take it out on us? Have a good one.
@michaelk1888
A brilliant post michael.
Michael
Bravo what a great letter I am very proud to be on your side of the
TEAM if I had 1%of your knowledge of the banking sector I would be happy
HAIL HAIL
Paul McCon’…. When Charlotte first started punting her wares around on twitter it was not difficult to picture the collective “whitey” taken by the MSM, their distress was of course relieved when someone had the bright idea to conveniently use Leveson as a smokescreen. As for “public interest”, now there is a phrase open to interpretation. What public? & what are they interested in?….. The succulent ones are of course interested in particular members of the public, the ones wrapped in red white & blue, & their mission is not to frighten those particular horses.
This of course is just history repeating itself. Insert Phil Mac’ for Charlotte. However the dam on occasion will burst & the unbearable truth floods onto the front & back pages.
Well….unbearable for some…. 🙂
As for Leggat & his spat with moon rocket McMurdo, it illustrates an old sporting adage. When you see the same team members begin to exchange hostilities it’s a sure sign they’ve lost belief… (they’re in denial because they know the end is nigh)…. Paul you really shouldn’t have worried about Sevco taking you to court…..They’re skint.
Nice Bowler hat sported by Scot Symon……….
“Spot on Mac T “
Not giving Charlotte the attention he or she clearly wants in the so called MSM has nothing to do with Leveson, what is or is not in the public interest, or any airy fairy notions of obligations to truth.
Nobody knows who Charlotte is. We all have an agenda of some sort, what is Charlotte’s? To give Charlotte a platform would be to assist him or her in terms of ends. Also, if Charlotte has the access to info we assume he or she has, can we also assume he or she is being selective in what is released via Twitter? What isn’t being released then?
There are other problems. We all assumed we could tie Charlotte to a particular era and noted that information released or leaked related to that assumed era. Recently, However, Charlotte seems to have jumped eras; is Charlotte now working with someone else? Who? To what end?
Why should any respected journalist or media outlet serve them by helping them to shit-stir? If Charlotte is too scared to come into the light and reveal who they are, why should anyone else?
Lets assume Charlotte’s goal is to extract money or compensation or to encourage some party or another to pay up, act in a certain way, or refrain from something, is it in the public interest that the MSM assist him or her? When we don’t know who Charlotte is or exactly what the end goal is?
Looks like it has nothing to do with the public interest to me, it looks like very specific individual interests and squabbling amongst very unpleasant characters.
Would Charlotte be releasing any of this if Charlotte got her way or didn’t fallout of favour or whatever? Public interest? Be serious.
@gort
Very interesting. A thought, would the ibrox IT servers have had a back up at Murray International Metals? For the amount released by (Charlotte) the data would have had to gleaned / picked up from somewhere.
Let’s be honest, in the short time whyte had at ibrox, would IT servers have been diverted or changed to somewhere else?
Is this the theory that the leaks are coming from a hacker or something? I have no idea where the material comes from. Could be that someone carelessly left an old laptop or computer in cupboard and someone took a look.
That wouldn’t explain the more recent leaks though, would it? Actually, I’m not sure that it’s even fair or accurate to call these leaks.
Things we know and things we don’t know… Things we know we don’t know and things we don’t know we don’t know.
How do you base an article on things you don’t know you don’t know?
Source: A guy with a lady’s name on Twitter
could genuinely be a girl rather than a guy but given “project charlotte” probably not
@gortchomor…I agree there is probably no “widespread” interest in the Sevco saga, but there is still “significant” interest. The Charlotte circus is in itself a story, regardless of whether you take the information on offer as valid.
The narrative I have from someone mired in the inky trades is that Charlotte approached CW with the simple purpose of putting info out there that would not otherwise see the light of day because of the afflictions of the Scottish sporting press. We all know what they are. It was also intimated to myself that Charlotte is a Celtic fan & is keen to exploit the opportunity to hurt Sevco…….No surprise or mystery there.
The public interest is simple………a major Scottish sporting institution has & continues to behave in a manner that brings disgrace on itself, Shows it’s association with the games ruling bodies as more than suspect, & provides the rest of Scottish football with the best laugh since Maribor pumped hapless Ally & his squad of zillionaires out of the Uefa diddy cup.
You could argue that a tadpole farting in Rouken Glen pond is of public interest. You could probably even argue it’s of significant interest. Reporting on that carries no risk though whereas this Charlotte stuff does.
You seem to be arguing that the drama itself — regardless of who is involved, the accusations and insinuations being made, the source of the information, it’s authenticity, etc. — is so significant that the MSM have an obligation to cover it.
So, here’s a scenario for you to consider;
Imagine an ex-colleague of yours who wanted to browbeat you into giving him money or something started releasing information that was sensitive to you. Imagine he done that to make you look as bad as possible, selectively, and anonymously. Maybe he knows you exaggerated your claim for expenses, had a fling with someone, swore a lot, said nasty things about others in your company, etc, etc, and released info on that.
Would you argue that the company newsletter had an obligation to publish or cover all that, regardless of whether or not it was true, regardless of who said it and why?
So, this ex-colleague’s selfish goal of getting cash from you somehow becomes the public interest? How? There’s actually a case for saying it would be more wrong to publish it if it was true.
“who will break the silence on Charlotte Fakes?”
So what your proposing gortcomhor…….is continued silence?
@gortchomhor
August 17, 2013 at 2:35 pm
You could argue that a tadpole farting in Rouken Glen pond is of public interest.
—————————————————————————————-
Only an arsehole would try…
Mac,
” The public interest is simple………a major Scottish sporting institution has & continues to behave in a manner that brings disgrace on itself, Shows it’s association with the games ruling bodies as more than suspect ”
None of the above is true if the tapes are not, but you use this truth to justify the publication of these tapes ??????????????????????????
That sounds Irish to me.
That sounds Irish to me
Do you have something against the Irish. Or are you just been stereotypical in your assessment.
Paul,
I have nothing against the Irish, I was being contentious to annoy you.
Niall, All of the above is true…… regardless of the veracity of Charlotte Fakes.
You’ve just outed yourself with the “sounds Irish” comment.
Now we know exactly where we stand…… your prejudices are now hi viz….
Mac,
You live and breathe prejudice my friend, please do not include me in your mind set.
Steerpike
August 17, 2013 at 4:28 pm
That sounds Irish to me.
—————————————————————————————–
That sounds racist to me Niall.
@gortchomhor
August 17, 2013 at 11:13 am
Why should any respected journalist…
——————————————————————
In Scotland?
Yer havin’ a laugh!
Your opinions noted. IMO Totally biased, single view point shared no doubt by the office of communication within govan.
Enjoy your succulent lamb today.
You ask me to explain why I think your earlier expressions were crap and here you are slating mine without an atom of explanation.
I don’t have time to explain and don’t think I need to — I think you know what you wrote is third rate junk dressed up in morality.
What bugs me is that you seem to riddle your attacks on Rangers with phrases that imply you have sympathy with their fans or something. Others on here do that too, condemning them in the harshest terms but from the point of view of the poor Innocent Rangers fans who are innocently caught up in all this. It’s dishonest.
I don’t know why you don’t openly oppose them, everything they stand for, and relish the plight and sufferance of their fans — as I openly do.
As for Charlotte and all that stuff you said about criminal actions and such, why should some hard working law officer, journalist, radio talk show host, or editor put his liberty on the line when we know so little about the authenticity of the sources, the ends and character of those who are supplying the info, etc?
If Charlotte is careful to remain anonymous and isn’t willing to go out on a limb in public with that stuff why should anyone else? Why don’t you, if you care so much about the public good? Oh, you don’t have a newspaper or reputation to risk?
It’s obviously an in-fight amongst unsavoury people who have selfish interests in selectively releasing info, etc, etc. That being the case, why should anyone put their neck on the line for them by getting involved and facing a possible lawsuit?
I like this guy Gortchomhor, his brain functions, until the source and the material is verified there is no story, no right minded journalist is going to publish gossip as fact.
‘no right minded journalist is going to publish gossip as fact”
jeezuz Niall is there no end to your naivety????/
“Craig Whyte wealth off the radar”…….. I’ll leave you with that nugget for starters …. compose yourself, then ask the question, why have I no understanding of how the press works in the West of Scotland, or is it that you choose to ignore the reality. Take your time………….
So they were wrong to exaggerate Whyte’s wealth then and on that basis have an obligation to be wrong again or face being accused of lacking consistency?
I can imagine the reaction of their readership when after reading all these leaks they tell them the source: an anonymous person who we assume to be a man (but who uses a woman’s name) told us on Twitter.
@gort,
Please excuse the brain dead, some chap called Phil pointed out a few journalistic omissions and errors a year or so back ,and they have expanded this to decry all journalism. Rather strange premise since Phil himself has been exposed as a journalist prone to omission and error.
I have tried to get them to focus on evidence but I think that requires reason, and as my example proves, they are devoid of reason.
It has never occurred to them that the man who is peddling all this SMSM bias crap is just as biased as the journalists he condemns.
gortchomhor……….are you niave enough to believe that journalistic sources are not anonymous?… what do you consider the trade to be built apon……….signed missives with photo id’s?
Niall… we had all arrived at the conclusion that the Scottish MSM was a malfunctioning basket case many years before Phil Mac Giolla Bhain managed to shine a light on them. Also your bogus claim of a victory over him on TSFM was amusingly quiant, I think what actually happened was you bored your opponent into a soporific coma.
I see you have fastened yourself barnacle like to gortchomhors backside….That’s nice for you…….you have a wee pal. 🙂
That’s the the kiss of death on you Gort.
The brainless mouth has spoken.
Did you ask the wife Niall?
James Traynor, working at the Daily Record duty bound to tell the truth , he told everyone that Rangers died.
James Traynor, working at Ibrox, duty bound to tell the truth, Rangers did not die, i retract my former statement says Traynor.
so what is the truth,
Lets look to a man well respected by the Media and all the season ticket purchasing, Rangers fans, old club and new club,
Mr Walter Smith,
he made it very, very, ABSOLUTELY clear, RFC 1872 died, he has never retracted, nobody was going to sack him or call him a liar,
Why was Traynor forced to make a very public climb down,
funny why Smith has never felt the need to do so.
It is a story due to the public interest and the lack of interest from the MSM. Whether it is true or not, it IS still a story…are Extra terrestrials real, is God real, are ghosts real..look at the US, Area 51. Conspiracy theorists were ridiculed with their suspicions and ideas, but the Government totally denied any knowledge. Why the big secret, why do they admit to it now. Has the research stopped and all the evidence been removed..look at the Not Proven verdict in Scotland, there can be loads of suspicion and motive, but no evidence..it does not mean innocent, just lack of hard evidence.
Right minded ? You obviously can’t afford the bus fare from methil to govan , I could send up the sunshine coach
You do not have to risk anything if you go from the angle to debunk the story or to find out if they are genuine before publishing that is what good journalism is all about. Dot the i cross the t’s and check your sources. The media did not have a problem with wealth off the radar and look how that turned out. The media are turning a blind eye to a story that at the least needs investigated, (the so called story that is hindering Sevco) no-one is asking them to risk anything just to either check if the story is real or put it to bed based on investigating journalism.Journalists cannot just wake up and hit out with wealth off the radar that is what puts credibility at risk and fecks their reputation. The story in the daily record costs small businesses their lively hood as a so called conman was able to walk into ibrox and fleece the whole institution for a quid, The real story conman murray wants shot of rangers and has found a guy who can take any flak. if things do not work out he will use his incredible asset stripping skills, clear the toxic debt, fleece the creditors and investors and do a runner when the shit hits the fan and ensure that the path is open to repeat the crimes committed before are allowed to be played out again and again and again. The sheep will have their hate figure and be forever committed to buy back into the institution because they have no-one in the media independent from the institution who repeatedly feed them the mince they lap up.
Jeezo…
The worker bees are up and buzzing around early this dreich Saturday morn.
The QUEEN B is a hard task mistress indeed, has she never heard of weekend lie ins?
But pray tell, what prompted this early morning reveille or call to arms of the obsessively devoted and highly industrious insects I wonder?
Could it (bee) that the hive’s head honcho is dying off, so mucho flapping of wings and additional pollenation by the blue collar workers is required to sustain the colony through the winter?
Is Charlotte about to take flight deserting her loyal followers, leaving them bereft of a leader, and a soul?
She certainly has been less active lately. One wonders if the queen has been devoured by a king, in a well orchestrated coup. How will the pesky plant stalkers react when they realise they’ve been nurturing the super bee variety recently introduced from South Africa…ahh honey…now that’s sweet!
Stevie you must have worked hours on that absolute drivel. Does that make you a drone?
As for the soof africaan sugar daddy is he still not prevented by court order from distributing any honey?
Morning Stykebhoy…
Go wiggle your powder puff posterior elsewhere, petal.
Or…Buzz off!
My smart phone is set to answer your posts. Its smarter than the average bear. You were Duped then, duped now and duped forever
stevie…..Charlotte may come & go……….so what. Rangers will always be dead, & Sevco probably will snuff it………
Just heard wee Chico (standing right here where I am) version, saying the strangest of things. RANGERS …2…Stranraer…0.
Take your tin hat off Mac, and stick yer cowbhoy hat with the dangly corks on. Us pesky flies are still buzzing aboot, looking for the succulent stuff.
Heh heh.
ah my bad. the assets are unfrozen but he’s still facing time in the cooler. I wonder if the SPFL will have the gonads to apply the “fit and proper” test that Regan can’t apply while under the “hoplessly conflicted”
From previous thread.
@Ian
On second thoughts; if that BDO did decide to negate the original sale; the IPO; Sevco 5088; the White – v – Green action; the entire fiasco would implicate D&P.
I just don’t see BDO opening Pandora’s Box; the Spivs will be banking on the above exploits being too toxic to be aired in public.
It would appear that the path is clear for Green to manipulate the major shareholders to do what they so wish with regard to any sale and leaseback of the assets.
The apparent lack of funds will be an excuse to hatch the leaseback ploy. The duplicity of the Green/Whyte relationship has already demonstrated the vested interests of those involved.
The entire trick will require manipulation of the shareholder vote; this would appear to be the principals’ field of expertise. The wheels are already in motion, the gravy train is unstoppable.
If it was any other club, the general public may have felt a degree of sympathy. It seems that we are all witness to the great train robbery, with no means or desire to apprehend the culprits.
I look forward to watching Green’s coy explanation of the unfolding master plan to secure the future of such a magnificent football club for the benefit of such loyal fans.How he manages to keep a straight face is a feat in itself.
I am sure this has been floated before, but might Charlotte be reference to the location of the source of the documents rather than the name of the author Charlotte Square being the home of MIH and Scotland’s finest Lamb Only dining room? Succulent of course.
Rg
That and IT data servers, makes for an interesting thought.
Rg
All of that and IT data servers would have held all email account transactions for years.
Well done today Celtic!
@Robertg
Charlotte Fakeovers has access to both Green & Whyte camps, which suggests to me, despite the (fake) court action between the two; Craig & Charlie are yet in cahoots.
The only logical reason for the leaked papers is to pre-empt any criminal action brought against either of the pair.
I would imagine the above is the sole reason that the media has given the leaked information such a wide berth. To date, Charlotte’s attempt to prejudice any forthcoming court action is most probably ineffective.
If that any arrests arise from the SFO investigation; only then shall BDO be forced to take matters further with regard to D&P’s involvement. The only real threat to the perceived ‘sting’ would stem from the SFO. Just how much more this caper has yet to offer is anyone’s guess.
When the legal stuff is finally done with, we can concentrate on the football; there’s years of comedy gold to come.
Sorry to throw a spanner in the works. I’d say Charlotte’s revelations showed D&P to be fairly honest brokers — go listen to the audio recordings from about 3 months ago. I used to think they had a preordained agenda to make sure Green was chosen (the chosen one) as preferred bidder but their reluctance to work with the Blue Knights seems to have been honestly and squarely based on the weakness of their offer.
I also think the recordings revealed a concern by D&P as well as Whyte for the Welfare of the club going forward.
I’m assuming the recordings are genuine, of course.
@gortchomhor
You may well be correct regarding the actions of D&P, although to base your assumption on the content of Charlotte’s ‘twitterings’ demonstrates of the inherent problem of prejudicial information being leaked.
I’m sure that I read somewhere that D&P were found not to have breached any of the relevant rules as reviewed by BDO (or some other regulatory body).
I think it’s safe to say that the Sevco ‘switcheroo’ is due further investigation, whether anything will come out of that is probably down to the findings of the SFO.
The most pressing issue right now is what happens next week at the EGM, shall Green be relegated once again?
Whether Green is placed up front or in the background, I’m sure he will have a major influence on whatever transpires in the coming months (even if the official line is that he’s been sacked) I’m afraid I just don’t see him as the ‘walking away’ type.
“I’d say Charlotte’s revelations showed D&P to be fairly honest brokers”
So gortchomhor, you now see some veracity in Charlotte fakes efforts, enough veracity for the press to go to print with?
Make your mind up pal, is it kosher or not?
It just seems like a bit of a coincidence (or maybe a good pun or whatever). Maybe Davros Murray is behind it all and hoping to buy back in for a quid after undermining all the (other) spivs and charalans…..
The account needs to be careful it isn’t aidan and abetting Craig Whyte. Some of the documents are being released earley before any court cases.
Could be Craigie Whyte himself. After all, he is the one who could benefit the most. The tribute act will be the biggest loser, so much fun….
Strikes me that there are two critical questions. Are the documents which Charlotte is publishing genuine and were they obtained illegally? Regardless of the answer to these questions they represent a clear inference of serious criminality either by those named in the documents or by Charlotte whether by faking and publishing them or by stealing them. Crown Office should be proactively instructing a criminal investigation. The Lord Advocate, as head of the Crown Office Procurator Fiscal Service, should have intervened long before now. He should be craving warrants for service on Twitter and Scribd to identify Charlotte and warrants thereafter to recover the documents and confirm or negate their veracity and to issue indictments thereafter as appropriate.
Could be that there is nothing illegal about it and that is why nothing is being done about it! Could it be that if this is so and is declared to be so publicly, then what’s to stop the msm from reporting? Could it be that the current modus operandi suits your crowns, lords, fiscals msm and sevco down to the ground, believe me they do not want to report on it therefore do not want an investigation.
Brian,
If the authorities pursued every false twitter claim, you and I would be paying 99p in the pound taxes,are you a lawyer by any chance ?
Try and put Rangers into perspective, the Lord Advocate is not your personal slave pursuing your every whim, get real.
So you have proof that Charlotte’s twitter claims are false, or do you just believe in GOSSIP
tykebhoy,
I believe the tapes are not true until they are proven to be true, this is not the same as believing they are false.
Steerpike, what sophistry is that, nay casuistry? I could be forgiven for thinking you are a Jesuit, for goodness sake.
I’ve noticed that when you stray away from the balance sheet, your arguments become less convincing. I’m with Popper on this one. Something is true until shown to be false. I think the official term is ‘Falsification Theory.’
Surely the least we can expect is the parties concerned to come out and say the documents/tapes are fraudulent. Answer honestly, if I were to falsely accuse you of something, would you just accept my false allegation, or would you—come out fighting?
Hello Dan, hope you had a good nights kip.
” I’ve noticed that when you stray away from the balance sheet, your arguments become less convincing. I’m with Popper on this one. Something is true until shown to be false. I think the official term is ‘Falsification Theory.’”
—————————————————————————————-
I think you are on your own on this one, you seem to have misunderstood my mentor, something is true ONLY if it can be falsified.. I think Popper would turn in his grave to have his theory prove the Loch Ness monster exists BECAUSE it cannot be proven otherwise.
I would put accounts behind Science, Philosophy and theology in my list of expertize.
We are not dealing with a simple false claim on Twitter. There is potentially a concerted and prolonged fraud involving forgery and uttering of documents designed to destabilise a bone fide business. There is potentially the publication of legitimately obtained genuine documents which disclose financial frauds on a grand scale and serious breaches of company law. There is a potential for a mixture of both – illegally obtained documents which are nonetheless genuine.
There is an inference of serious criminal activity no matter which of the above scenarios is true.
We are not dealing with trivial matters which it would not be in the public interest to pursue. These are very serious criminal offences which if proven would potentially attract lengthy prison terms.
The clear inference of such serious criminality is, IMO without doubt, worthy of investigation. It may be that after investigation there is insufficient evidence to proceed against any individual but that should not preclude the need for an investigation to establish the facts and to allow for an informed decision on the merits of a prosecution.
Of particular note however is the fact that the documents of course, once legally secured and in the hands of the Lord Advocate in relation to an initial investigation about the potential that they were either forgeries or stolen would make those documents fair game for scrutiny in respect of any potential offences which their content may disclose. It may well be that for that vey reason the people at RIFC who would be the “complainers” in such an investigation have declined to make any formal complaint and thereby initiate a formal enquiry. My point however is that the Lord Advocate has absolute discretion to initiate an enquiry regardless of whether or not a formal complaint has been received. My own view is that his failure to do so is an abrogation of his responsibilities.
Is this a joke? Serious criminal activity? Charlotte? Did I miss a tweet?
You talk like you’ve discovered a major crime, it’s very eloquent and convincing, but you forgot to tell us what this serious crime was.
If you ever get your teeth into some cause that’s real and meaningful, I pray I’m not on the receiving end.
This is not a simple case of a false twitter claim (which presupposes the claims are false). We are talking about serious criminal offences which if proven would potentially attract lengthy prison terms.
There is the potential for a serious fraud perpetrated against RIFC by Charlotte forging documents and uttering them as genuine. There is the potential that the documents are genuine and disclose serious financial frauds and breaches of company law. The documents may be genuine but obtained illegally. The documents may be genuine, obtained legally but published illegally. The documents may be genuine, obtained legally and published legally but it is difficult to conceive of a legitimate motive for publishing them in the manner that they have been to date and as such I don’t consider that to be a reasonable proposition.
Of particular note is the fact that if these documents are secured legally by the Crown serving warrants in furtherance of an investigation into the potential theft of genuine documents or the forgery and uttering of false documents then the documents themselves would become fair game for scrutiny by the Crown in respect of any other crimes which the content of the documents might disclose. Call me cynical but that may be why no formal complaint has been made by any party at RIFC. My point however is that the Lord Advocate has the absolute discretion to instigate an enquiry whether or not a complaint is received and that his failure to do so is IMO an abrogation of his responsibilities. The Lord Advocate investigates and prosecutes in the public interest, not in the interests of particular individuals. He should be alive to the fact that it may not be in the interests of current or former board members at Rangers to make a formal complaint and initiate an investigation but that an investigation is nonetheless warranted in the interests of others with connections to Rangers, such as, creditors, investors, potential investors, fans, the football authorities charged with overseeing the proper management of the game and the wider footballing community as a whole to name but a few.
Sorry for the repeat rant. My first reply didn’t appear as usual so I wrote out another, in very similar terms. Wee technical glitch somewhere perhaps
I thought you had discovered a mass grave the way you were talking.
Is that what you’re getting all flustered about, whether the documents were legally or illegally obtained?
I think calling into question the integrity and competence of the Lord Advocate, as you just did, is more controversial and worthy of MSM attention than anything I have seen or heard from Charlotte.
I’m just a daft ordinary person with a limited vocabulary so I can’t put things as you do in such inspirational terms etc, but surely if there was a serious crime along the lines suggested by you then the victim of that crime would be more vocal?
I know they have served warrants to have documents removed from an online depositary, but I didn’t get the impression that the authorities or the victims were that concerned about it.
The would be complainers may be reluctant to become “more vocal” because the would be opening a proverbial “can of worms”. By making a complaint they in effect allow the authorities to investigate not just their complaint but also their part in the whole saga. If they themselves have been up to no good it may well be their judgement that it is less problematic for them to leave well alone
If some of the documents turn out to be the ones that were meant to be sent to the shredder, lot of shit will be hitting the fan.We Don’t Do Walters Away.
Cut to the chase Brian.
Who believes and has stated these documents are not genuine?
Why has nobody said “those are my documents” and shouted ‘thief’?
See above
Morning Jimmy Bee,
” I ask you a wee hypothetical question,if ally had won the most important games of his managerial career , the CL qualifiers,would rangers be in the same place they are today,or would they have survived,and be in the top flight under Craig whyte, knowing now how the big tax went.”
———————————————————————————————
You have come to the OK coral of hypothetical questions, and I will be your huckleberry.
The simple answer is it is unlikely Rangers would have survived, the additional cost of repaying Ticketus 5-6 million per year made Rangers once again a casino football club, Rangers would have to qualify for the group stages every year to cover costs and repayments to Ticketus.
Rangers domestic turnover was about 40 million with 43 million in costs, adding another 5-6 million to these costs meant Rangers would lose 10 million per year if they failed to qualify. Cl revenue brought in about 10 million profit, so the maths is very simple.The Ticketus deal more or less undid all the previous good work of the board, it returned Rangers to the state of having to qualify to break even( the old SDM model).
This business model was bad enough when the only obstacle to CL money was Celtic, however once the coefficients dropped then other obstacles materialized( qualification ties), this made the gamble reckless.
So Rangers may have survived a year but eventually the Ticketus debt would have crucified them, if you need CL money to break even then cutting the player budget risks that. CW turned Rangers into a basket case of a business model with no way out, they had to continue gambling, and the bookie never loses.
“and I will be your huckleberry”?
Dangleberry more like.
What do they taste like Monti?
I know that you’ve had your tongue around many a punnet!
Cam – for goodness sake. Dangleberries and cling-ons. Are you having haemorrhoid trouble again?
@Monti
A mixed metaphor if ever there was one Monti 🙂
Maybe the gunfight at the OK CORRAL ( correct spelling ) once featured as a comic concept in a Huckleberry Hound cartoon,and deNiall took this to be an accurate representation of the events,who knows.
I’d have been inclined to compare myself to Wyatt,or one of the other Earp brothers,or indeed Doc Holliday who were the victors in this little contretemp.
Marge,you’re a back shooter!
Your nails would stop you from being quick on the draw and spurs don’t go well with 4 inch heels.
Maggie……..Maggie…….Maggie.
You are talking about me again…tut…tut.
Wrong again my dear, no mixed metaphor.
@Maggie I see old rearpipe is quoting from the newco gunfight at the OK Corral not not the original.There is theme developing here.
OOPS!
Here’s Marge walking backwards!
Great result again for the Champions of Scotland, Celtic.
Sets the Bhoys up perfectly for Tuesday.
COYBIG!
GGAW…….
Hello Monti,
Couple of points, although Celtic are not at their strongest I believe their next European opponents are the weakest imaginable and they will qualify easily. On the domestic front, the new financial reality of the SPL will be fully exposed this year in terms of competitiveness, I believe all Celtic’s opponents are weaker now than ever before, and the league will effectively be won by Christmas. I will be shocked if Celtic do not win all domestic trophies with some ease and I predict a bumper year in terms of finances and titles.
There is no bad news for Celtic in Scottish football, it is probably the most one sided league on the planet, good luck to you, make hay while the sun shines.
http://www.sfmonitor.org/2013/08/mr-green-and-opportunity-knocks-for-aberdeen/
ICT and Saints don’t seem to be doiing too badly either. However now Mcall’s mob don’t have to play Rangers or their tribute act it looks like they are treating most games like they are playing Rangers and losing them
Did you ask the wife tho……?
What about a league made up of ONE team full of highly paid full timers playing against part time footballers that work full time at their main income earning occupations ,
would that not register as a more one sided league, or does having the worlds most inept manager, managing the full timers even things out
Hello me heartie,
Rangers are not the beneficiaries of this mismatch, in fact the opposite, this cannot be said about Celtic, and at the expense of their opponents.
You are fooling no one, the motivation that drives this moral crusade is self interest and revenge, and that renders it immoral.
So CG was right he knows super swally will not win a real cup and he has watched a team who are the second highest payed in Scotland been strengthened with more money they cannot afford to win what……HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH you certainly do not do irony.
I have started a spread sheet for personal abuse, it is done on a league format with prizes for the winners( suckers) at the end of the season.
Keep em coming. lol
It would seem reasonable to assume that there is some kind of plan to what Charlotte is doing, that the release of certain documents and jumping between time frames is not random. However, there is no apparent rhyme nor reason to the releases. There is either a genius at work or someone randomly releasing what they can in the hope that damage can be achieved wherever possible.
You would imagine that with the apparent wealth of information available to Charlotte that she would have a more focussed and strategic approach to meeting her end goal.
It is highly unlikely that Charlotte can disguise their origins with the available resources open to some who track down masked web addresses and proxy ip details. SO why has no-one tried to locate the source or at least indicate how well it has been hidden?
With the option of identifying a source of the info, declaring it is true and accurate and that the source has been approved by the recipient, then how could the contents be discredited and ignored….no best pretend it is all too ‘Leveson’ to go near! hmmm
It and Arty,,,a pair of anonymous shoitebags driven by an instinct inserted at an early age and nurtured throughout the formative years.
Its a Celtic thing,,,insidious,pervasive and not to be admired.
That’s a bit rich coming from one who doesn’t pay his taxes and steals from charity. I doubt if there’s a pane of glass left in your house.
You had to pay tax on windows back on the day.
We’ll just let you silly beggars pay some tax to contribute towards your giro’s.
Just to start off an historical exchange Creggy,how do you feel about the part your ancestors played in the settlement of the Indian lands in the US.
If the Sioux had access to Semtex, do you think they would have stooped as low as your heroes.
I mean just think of the poor Aborigines as well,that damned history just has a way of biting you and your history right on the arse.
Bloody Spaniards slaughtering all those happy gold loving Incas eh? carry on with your victim status,,you play the part with such applomb!
What with the Spaniards the Incas the Aborigines and the Sioux that family of yours have had a lot of persecution. It’s a wonder you didn’t get a heart wrenching public apology from Tony Blair.
The question is though. Why didn’t you stay at fucking home in Scotland where you belong instead of interfering in other peoples lives.
I really pity you little man and find it hard to forgive the Catholic Church for the hundreds of years of persecution that turned you into such a nasty thieving bitter-minded little bigot. I would say a prayer for you but I don’t bother with that anymore. Not that I think it would, in your case, do much good.
Say Hi to Morag for me, she’s a saint.
Ah the joy of annoying the green horned,one humped greetin faced Creggy,,,,i can go to work with a spring in my step.
Don’t bother with the prayer,it would be akin to Craigie bhoy going guarantor on a loan.
There is a cooker & a fridge in his front garden tho….
Ah Monti,have you recovered from your skelping,red face calmed down?
You can have a night off wee man as i must protect the city from those who deface the Orange glow of truth.
Have fun shoving marshmallows up each others orifices!
That’s a bit rich coming from someone who doesn’t pay his taxes and steals from charity. I doubt very much that there is a pane of glass left in your house.
Think i will stay in tonight cam is out again with the charity tin. The thing is he calls it going to work.
A sevconian writing of things not to be admired! I mean do they admire anything that is not seen as from the so called elite end of the social structure, whether its deserved or not, makes you wanna laff cor blimey.
Just imagine the fun and resultant legal censuring if the tranny had been focusing on GCC or the Vatican.
@cam tranny? Sally Mcoist?
@cam
All this Vatican cover up stuff is being fabricated by anti-Catholic Governments and media, the evidence against them is pure hearsay, who would you believe, a devout priest or an apostate ?
Having said that, according to tykebhoy, the claims are true until they are proven false.
There you go typing sh!te again but as you are full of it, it comes as no surprise. Your the one that insists everything you say is the truth but are too thick to see most of it is easily proven false. Charlotte has more credibility than you will ever have even if its all a big hoax. You don’t even merit HOAX
tykebhoy….hello….I sense I have upset you, please accept my apology, it was not my intention.
We must all accept responsibility what we say, whether this be in public or over a public internet forum, direct your frustrations at your arguments and not me. The media has investigated the CF tapes, it did not get very far, the original source would not reveal itself. It is known as a dead end, until the source can even be verified the content is unverified, this means unproven in plain English. You place great store in unproven gossip, and that is not nice my friend, you do not seem to care if this gossip would damage others, but you don’t care because they are Rangers men.
You are a lovely lovely man.
The word devout somehow conjures up an image of a maniac on a rooftop with a rifle,,i don’t know if this means something is wrong with my thought processes or i’m getting closer to an epiphany of sorts,time will tell.
Do you think Roy Batty would fit in well in the Vatican, or would his methods cause conflict?
Cam
I take your point about religious zealots and fundamentalists. In reality, most of these deranged sniper shooters are ex military. When you subvert the human being’s natural empathy and compassion in order to turn them into “soldiers”, it isn’t easy to switch it back. Look at Charles Whitman – a young man with high IQ, well adjusted, coming from a devoutly religious family, then he joined the US marines. You’ll remember him being praised for his marksmanship by the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket. Oh – and Charles Whitman was a former altar boy – there’s a gift for you Cam.
That early start to any young mans life could well tend to concentrate the mind somewhat.
Ted,you are IN A WORLD OF SHIT!
The problem is not religious fundamentalism but the fundamentals of religion, holy truth pays Charon for a safe passage and no soul wants to rock the boat.
The devout are those who fear drowning the most.
You can’t mention ferries in here,,,they suffer from ferryphobia.
Cam. I know you’ll be getting a ferry over the Styx when your time comes.
Here’s one cool Ferry
I have never, in 40 odd years on this planet, EVER, heard anyone say of a heinous crime or criminal-
“And did you know he/she was a protestant/muslim/jewish” etc
why `you lot` are obsessed with connecting crimes with catholics/catholocism/ the vatican is utterly beyond me!
is it clutching at bigoted straws? I think so!
We’re up to our knees in connecting evil doing,skullduggery,corruption, money laundering,double dealing and the conduct of individuals who are carrying out dubious acts for the greater good of an evil empire,,,in this case Rangers.
This then leads us into other areas,much darker areas,with documented evidence to show that a club with more than 140 years of history,can teach those amateurs at Ibrox a thing or two.
I think its termed an unfortunate truth.
@cam
We’re up to our knees, strange beginning for a sentence.
Freudian or Chaplinesque,,,you choose.
hang on to that “money laundering” statement Cam!
I honestly believe that one phrase- will see Sevco`s licence to play football in Scotland -revoked!
one headline too many, plus- we will choose the moment to strike our ENEMIES!?
well, your ENEMIES!- are not gonna sit back and wait for you to strike!
the americans have some crap terminology I`ll admit, but “retaliating first” is a doozy and one I believe your mob are gonna experience first hand!
Good evening wastrel, I have some sympathies with your sentiment, however in this case an institution willfully covered up heinous crimes carried out by its employees, the institution itself must be connected to the crime, because they have committed it.
Do you wish the public to ignore the actions of the Vatican to protect its reputation and bank balance, for fear of being tainted as a bigot clutching at straws ?
Where have you been, if this had been Scientology or the Moonies, there would be a world wide ban on the cult, and its leaders would be eating bread and water.
an institution willfully covered up heinous crimes carried out by its employees, the institution itself must be connected to the crime, because they have committed it.
I think you’ll find it’s called ‘vicarious liability’
I also think in summation from the man in the white wig wil be:
“You are the author of your own missfortune”. Take them down.
singulars, plurals, got it.
why mention it on a legal (and every scottish football) forum??
no mention of a lovely lady murdered cos her partner of choice had the wrong skin colour!
wanna bet me that UK`s most prolific murderer was C of E?
wanna bet me it`s never been mentioned on any forum ANYWHERE??
NO? didn`t think so- cos no-one GAF what religion he was!
200+ murders and, get this, NO-ONE GIVES A FUCK WHAT HIS RELIGION WAS!!!
wastrel,
I haven’t a clue what point you are endeavoring to make, it is not my fault the Catholic church is religious, it is impossible to mention them without referring to their religion. The point being discussed which you seem to have missed is this, can you imagine the public outcry if the media published Charlotte Fakes, and the topic was the Vatican covering up child abuse.
Would Catholics or anyone else consider this responsible journalism, without verifying the source or the material.
Are you with me on this one ?
Thanks waster,you got me thinking of the origin of the word,which in turn led me to this site.
A quick glance tells me that blue is a Godly colour.
I shall read this devoutly,feed it through the bigotometer and get back to you with my findings.
Revelations 17
‘If Rangers fans want the truth, they will find it only on the clubs official platforms’.
And:
‘Finally, Jack Irvine of Media House does not speak for this Club’.
If you want to seek truth – seek Rangers official platforms.
Oh and don’t buy the Daily Record.
I hope that’s all clear.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/4824-for-the-avoidance-of-doubt
An angry bear in a much rattled cage 🙂
For The Avoidance Of Doubt
==========================================================
RANGERS Football Club is aware of wildly inaccurate stories circulating on various websites and would like fans to know that these flights of fantasy will be monitored by our lawyers.
In particular, they are examining a malicious piece which seems to suggest that the Club does not own its facilities.
==========================================================
The club presently owns its facilities 😉
I love the idea their lawyers are monitoring ‘flights of fantasy’ – that is so sweet.
Jabba spinning again, he’s a useless *unt of a man.
don’t you dare call that giant of the media a punt
Just read that statement again Martin, meltdown is maybe not far off, that’s a desparate statement from a club and obviously contempt from jabba towards his journalistic fraternity, incredible.
Maybe the daily record chief’s should recount jabba’s email’s while he was an employee of the company and seek redress publish an ‘exclusive’ with regard to any missdeeds uncovered.
Fire one salvo across that brigands bows gunner.
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/4824-for-the-avoidance-of-doubt
Beware of Messengers bearing Arms at 10.30,,,haw,haw,haw
Don’t you think upon reflection, that that comment is rather low considering the minehost affords you the opportunity to air your views? I thought more of you than that; and i think many others on here did to. Maybe you’ve just launched a shot across your own bows matey.
Mr Traynor is beginning to earn his corn
Oh and don’t buy the Daily Record..What don’t buy the Daily Ranger
Arty,Random Thoughts,CQN,PMacG,TSFM,Charlotte,,,The Riddler,the Joker,Mr Freeze,the Penguin,Tommy Two Face,and Poison Ivy versus the Dark Knight.
Evil must be confronted and defeated,Gotham must not fall into enemy hands,,,Alfred, get my suit,warm up the works van and give Robin a call,,,if i must face these buggers, my back door will need protecting!
cam….for the avoidance of doubt…. The Ulster Scots, that peculiar variety of Irishness were at the forefront of “partitioning” Native American land. Funny that, you can’t take that lot anywhere without them claiming some one else’s home is actually their own. Nice try though… you sleekit racist tosser.
And yes if the Sioux had semtex they would have been fully justified in using it.
Beggars belief the abuse Monti gets on here, but you get away with much worse, you sleekit, grubby wee toss pot bigot.
The Sioux(real name Lakota) had to move away from the woodlands and on to the Plains as the British and the French had allied and armed traditional enemies, Iroquios, Seneca, Mahican, Huron and other numerous tribes on the Eastern seaboard making them too powerful for the LAKOTA to survive…
Keep an eye on the poor boxes guys. Just saw Cam pocketing a pair of snips. And watch out for the Spaniards, the Incas, the Aborigines and the Sioux. I’m not sure what their up to, but they have got Cam over excited. Could they be nicknames for third division teams?
I’m off to twitter now to start a ridiculous rumour about the Rangers PR guy trying to fire a broadside when the ship is listing and the briny is slipping over the gunwales.
Might turn out to be the tale of a damp squib. 🙂
Yea Martin
Cam admits they are up to their necks in shite and rising, what with asbestos hoose being standing room only, with spivs and chancers, but he still can’t get away from the Vatican.
His last words will, I predict be; “Fuck the Po…glug..glug…glug.
” But we must also stress we cannot waste time responding publicly to every blog or ridiculous claim against this Club. Also, there is a dangerous proliferation of anonymous obsessives on various social media sites and we will not give them any credence.”
———————————————————————————————
To be fair to the posters on here, not all are obsessives making ridiculous claims, just the ones who insult me. It doesn’t help when Bomber resurfaces( sober) spouting the same title deeds nonsense, what is wrong with this guy ?
Yes Bomber………that infamous Rangers Hater……….now why exactly would he have an axe to grind with Sevco?
Mac,
He certainly has an axe to grind against CG, I can only put it down to a lack of business acumen, whatever he thinks is going on with the title deeds is false, if there was some security against them then it would be in the public domain by now, everything else has been leaked ffs !!
Nothing in the accounts indicates the existence of any floating charge, and I am sure the audited accounts will confirm this. Malcolm Murray or Walter would have leaked any title deed impropriety on their departure, it seems there is no dark secret.
Evening Paul,
With regard to my earlier request that you write a book about my good self, I have given some thought to a few titles,settling on this one,
‘ 67 ways to remove a size 10 boot from Cam’s arse’
By Paul McConville. 🙂
can I be the 66th?
I have an affiliation with 66!
It has been mentioned on here that it does not matter what religion people are, this is not how I see things, it does matter. Religions are not all the same, some are more evil than others. Before I let a human govern me, I want to know if he believes in talking snakes, flying white horses or magic underpants. I certainly do judge people on what they believe, it determines their mental health status, anyone who believes in dead people coming back to life or talking bushes is not technically sane in my book.
Hitler’s beliefs gave us a clue to his actions, so did the 9/11 terrorists, ignoring what people believe has got us killing each other over freakin fairy tales, it is simply insane.
Did I mention I was an anti-theist, I have devoted my life to the destruction of religion, hope you will join me and my chimp genes to pursue kindness without voodoo, my moral code is simple ” no harm, no foul ”
Religion harms and it divides, and it must go the way of all bad ideas.
S/p.
You’re missing the point.
Pity you’re as about original as a Happy Meal toy..
open the booby hatch nial/steerpike coming thru.who needs drugs?