FOOTBALL IS WORTH DEFENDING PART II: IN DEFENCE OF #RANGERS By JohnBhoy

There are two sides to every story. The first side I detailed in my earlier guest post “Football Is Worth Defending”. This is the second side, in defence of Rangers. This post is not an analysis of Rangers i.e. it is not an attempt to critique what is good and bad about Rangers. Instead, like my previous post, it is one-sided but with one simple condition:  if I had to write down what is good about Rangers what would I say? Here it is.

What has Rangers contributed to the world of football? In reality, a great deal. To begin with, Rangers has given us players of sublime ability that could only have come from the Gods. Legends such as Bob McPhail, Jim Baxter, Willie Henderson, Davie Cooper, Ian Durrant, Ally McCoist, Paul Gascoigne and Andy Goram easily trip off the tongue; and then there is John Greig: their captain who played with his heart in one hand and his opponents testicles in the other.

Rangers has won more championships than any other club in the world. Let me repeat that: Rangers has won more championships than any other club in the world. That is a phenomenal achievement. Within their glittering array of silverware is the UEFA Cup Winners’ Cup and 9 successive league championships. In 2008 they missed out in repeating their UEFA Cup win in 1972 but lost out to Zenit St Petersburg, a team with far greater financial resources. Remarkably, that was the fourth UEFA Cup final in which Rangers had appeared: 1961, 1967, 1972 and 2008.

Rangers has suffered four great tragedies, two of which they overcame with great dignity, a third that they could do nothing about and the last, well, that is still unfolding. The first tragedy was the 1902 Ibrox disaster when 25 people died at a Scotland v England game; the third tragedy was the 1971 Ibrox Disaster where 66 fans died at an old firm game; and the fourth tragedy is unfolding before our very eyes. The third tragedy involves Johnny Thomson. He died in an accidental collision with Sam English, the Rangers striker. Johnny died for his bravery but what happened to Sam English was also a tragedy. After that fatal incident he was a broken man and his heart was no longer in football. Worse, he seemed to give up living. Two great men died on that pitch in 1931.

What has Rangers contributed to society? Once again, a great deal. They have given pleasure to many fans, and players, down the years. They have contributed to the financial well-being of Glasgow. Over the years their charitable work has been considerable. Every year the players’ visits to Yorkhill Hospital lighten up the faces of children who have heart-breaking illnesses, some of whom with only months to live. Whatever my views on some of the theatres of war entered into by our troops, their duty to country can leave them carrying horrific permanent mementos: debilitating physical and mental scars. Yet Rangers give them a day out that they will remember for the rest of their lives.

Now to the present day. The Rangers fans are not to blame for their current predicament. The villains of the piece are SDM, Craig Whyte and the main stream media. The first two everyone knows about, but the part played by the third culprit is interesting. When Celtic was heading for oblivion in 1994 the media were only too eager to inform the Celtic fans that their club was doomed. Remember the image of the broken crest appearing in the Daily Record? They did the fans a favour. We reacted immediately, banded together and forced the old board out, ending with the financial support of Fergus McCann’s share issue. With Rangers the media’s approach was very different and very fatal. They sat on their typewriters and neglected to warn the Rangers fans of what was happening. On the contrary, they told them repeatedly that a saviour was always just around the corner: SDM (again), Whyte, King, Miller, etc. In effect, they gave the fans zero time to react to what then became inevitable.

If Rangers had gone straight to the bottom division, as their fans wanted, rather than get involved with an abortive attempt to enter the SPL, then this would have saved much ill-feeling. This was not the fans’ fault but one caused by the SFA and the media pushing for this option. Charles Green was not to blame either. He was led to believe it was a viable option and like any leading custodian of a club, he jumped at the chance. Unfortunately for the image of his club, he was led up the garden path by a bunch of clowns.

Alistair McCoist. He did not walk away. Irrespective of the financial incentive to stay, he was entering the unknown that had the easy potential to go belly up. Without any training preparation, the loss of a full team of SPL players, and with the turmoil behind the scenes, he had to both manage the remnants of a team and become the trusted PR face of Rangers. He won the league championship at a canter. In addition, when Charles Green made a decision, and it was controversial e.g. boycotting of Dundee Utd or sacking of Sandaza, it was McCoist that was put on the spotlight. When the fans sang “inappropriate” songs at the Berwick game it was McCoist who behaved like a dignified leader to come out after the game to apologise. It was McCoist that was a pall-bearer at Tommy Burns’ funeral. God bless you for that Alistair.

The club. The one-million dollar question: is it a new club? My position is twofold: firstly, liquidation law mean the club is gone. Secondly, no law in the land can stop a fan following his team. Put on your Rangers top, wrap your blue and white scarf round your neck, take your usual seat in the stadium of your dreams and watch the light blues run on to that ancient field where the ghosts of McPhail and Baxter and Cooper still play when everyone has gone home. No law kicks a ball and no law can take that ball away. A football club is not the Chairman. Nor his Board. Nor even the owner. It is the living, breathing heartbeat shared by the fans and the players.

The Rangers fans supported the team when they had to, through thick and thin, in great numbers. They are not Huns or scum or the Klan. They are fellow human beings. We work beside each other. We share the same cinemas. The same hospitals. The same air. They are our neighbours. Our relatives. We are not defined by the colour of the clothes that we wear but by what is inside us and how we treat our fellow citizens. Collectively we do not have separate histories nor separate futures: for a brief time on this planet we inhabit the same space.

My best friend in my schooldays was of a different religion from myself and while I attended a Catholic school in Glasgow town centre, he went to the “proddy” one just down the road. I supported Celtic, he supported Rangers. We would travel on the same bus into town in the morning, sitting not beside our school mates but beside each other, and meet at 4.00 after every school day. Sometimes I would wait outside his school gates, sometimes he wait outside mine. Football never came between us. It’s only being a grown-up that fucks you up. Cam reminds me of him: same keen intelligence and cheeky humour. Which neatly leads me onto Internet bampots.

The football fans on this site are not bad people. On occasion we post some awful, instantly regrettable, remarks. What can start off as an intelligent and good-natured discussion can very quickly descend into a snake-pit of vitriolic bile. Our mothers would be ashamed at how we speak to each other. I admire the Rangers posters. Despite their club’s problems, they come out fighting. Unfortunately, we wind each other up and it can go too far. Cam I have mentioned: he’s a wind-up merchant and bloody good at it; but he’s a decent spud. Carson is a warrior. When his friends need him, he appears, plants his feet down, puffs out his chest and takes no prisoners. Richboy, Adam, Graham, 2 Sides, all have a contribution to make, some of whom have unfortunately departed from the blog shaking their head in disbelief. Those who remain need to step back and see what we have become. For the most part we have crossed the line from viewing each other as rivals to treating one another as enemies. Falter and you will suffer a metaphorical punch in the face.

I made the point in the first part of this double post that Rangers should also step back from adopting the militaristic language of enemies. At the same time others should extend the hand of friendship. Celtic should make that generous move. Rangers’ predicament is not Celtic’s doing but for the good of Glasgow, Celtic should re-establish cordial relations with Rangers. It is in everyone’s interests, not least the mothers who fret for their sons and daughters every time our teams meet in anger. A charity game at Hampden for Cancer Research, or an equally laudable cause, would be a start and present a different, new, fresh image of Glasgow’s football rivalry. Sooner or later both will meet in a competitive game – let’s cut each other off at the pass and meet for a charitable cause. Our own Charity Shield. Now there’s a thought. My two guest posts have very different endings, deliberately so. The choice is ours to make.

Now the SFA hierarchy, on the other hand, have shown no redeeming features.

Posted by JohnBhoy

546 Comments

Filed under Guest Posts, Rangers

546 responses to “FOOTBALL IS WORTH DEFENDING PART II: IN DEFENCE OF #RANGERS By JohnBhoy

  1. riddrie

    I’m speechless!….

    • OldFirm 1

      I am far from speechless. I assume JB is not in any way offended when the Brigadoon Buns sing that they ‘are up to their knees in Fenian Blood.’ Perhaps denigrating the memory of Jock Stein by implicating him in a paedophile cover up, leaves JB cold. I look forward to your comments on the EBT cheating, Vat Fraud and bad debts of the former club. What about events at Manchester where the monkeys actually defecated on the streets and caused more carnage than the Luftwaffe. What about their fans appearances on Crimewatch, attempting to kick a police officer to depth.

      I recall going to an Old Firm game as an eight year old. Our bus drew alongside the Rangers team bus. There were a few V signs form our side. They were reciprocated with the most lewd gestures I have ever seen as the pointed at me, simulating masturbation and blow jobs. They all dropped their trousers. Colin Stein threw a bottle through his bus roof air vents. Disgusting reprobates.

      These people are the lowest common denominator of our society. Scotland’s shame. Everywhere they roam they cause a riot. Even when they win a minor UEFA trophy, they riot, resulting in the cup being presented to RFC in the dressing room. They gained notoriety in being the first UEFA cup winner to be banned from defending their trophy. What should have been a good night for Scottish football was sullied by their drunken filth.

      Make no mistake, this is a new club. A new club with the same recidivist support. If the start-up were to go bust, I for one would stamp the ground down on their grave.

      As for the now deceased clubs title wins, how many of these were tainted by the bias of bent referees. Wharton, Dallas, McCurry. The list is endless.

      You are not good enough to win the Orwell prize, if that’s your motivation. There will never be another Old Firm game. Personally I would play games against the start-up behind closed doors. The inevitable loss by TRIFC results in a multitude of battered wives in Govan.

      It’s a poisonous fixture that I do not miss.

  2. Joseph

    Well done JohnBhoy. Couldn’t have put it better myself. Time for all this nonsense to stop. We’re eating each other up and the only casualties will be ourselves.

  3. Steven Brennan

    Good post, well meant, well written.
    Lets see how long it takes to descend into bampottery.
    I am sure there will be trouble at the next meeting of the 2 teams and the authorities will not sanction a game outwith the current competitions for that reason alone.
    Also the gap between the quality of the sides would prevent Rangers from agreeing in case they were humiliated, which would again cause trouble on the streets .
    Congratualtion JB for having the balls to post what many think, look out your hard hat my friend.

  4. dl2068

    Thank you 🙂 What was needed on here, gone too far lately.

  5. Joseph

    This also springs to mind: Happy the peacemakers for theirs in the Kingdom of Heaven!

  6. ecojon

    @ JohnBhoy

    A magnificent post and let’s hope that it is heeded on all sides!

    It is always so much easier to hate than to forgive mistakes and as none of us are perfect then we all must be able to forgive or we descend into a self-perpetuating pit of bile and hatred. IMO problems fester when we are unable to recognise our own failings and that often begins through a deep-seated belief that no other valid oppositions viewpoints exist which is a sure indicator of a closed mind with all the dangers that entails.

    That, coupled with an inability to fully understand history and place it in perspective, condemns some of us to live with the bitterness of past division. The old battles must be allowed to fade and instead, in an uncertain world, we must face new challenges together because if we don’t unite in this task we all become more vulnerable and so does our society.

    Surely our children and their children deserve a better Scotland where people are not judged negatively because of different backgrounds but rather on the value they bring to building an inclusive and fair society for all.

    • JohnBhoy

      Thanks Eco. See that you’re making an invaluable contribution to TSFM. Enjoy reading your input, as always.

  7. In the midst of a fine article, although I don’t agree with all its conclusions, a very fine appraisal of the old/new club argument. Thumbs up

  8. graham

    Jb
    So well put and I had a tear in my eye

  9. Monti

    No!!!!!

    I tell you what, Celtic have suffered most at the hands of their cheating, through lost prize money to Champions league money!
    provincial clubs have been shafted by the same methods I.e. playing against illegally registered players who should NOT have been on the park,this would have given the smaller clubs a better chance,a sporting chance if you like.
    Once every penny has been paid back to Celtic ( millions) & all the other clubs who played against the cheats are paid in full, once all the creditors have been paid in full, once Wally or Sally appear on t.v. admitting to a shameful sectarian signing policy that still shows itself today in terms of players being told NOT to bless themselves in view of the fans, Smith has to publicly declare this act of faith IS welcomed at Ibrox & ask for an immediate end to songs being sung about killing Catholics at home & away games, publicly ADMIT Rangers cheated the clubs & broke the rules in Scotland,ADMIT the old Rangers is dead & end the myth about 54 & Counting & declare it’s 54 some through cheating & concluded.
    ADMIT they have a new club with a third division title ONLY to it’s name!
    John Bhoy not all Rangers fans are scum but a very large majority are very much scum, they are scum to me & were up to their death!
    ” Celtic should offer them the hand of friendship”?
    NOT IN MY NAME!

    See that hand of friendship your on about? Make sure the Rangers hand is carrying a very large suitcase with Celtic’s due money in it, take the case & slap their hand away!
    Rangers (IL) gave Scottish football NOTHING but SECTARIANISM!
    I’M GLAD THEIR DEAD & EVEN HAPPIER THEIR FANS ARE HURT BY THAT!

    • Just when you think it’s safe to get back in the water! Oh to see yourself as others do!

      • Monti

        It’s what I feel & I’m sure that of many others!
        Sorry if that doesn’t fit in with the prawn sandwiches.

        • dl2068

          You are what JohnBhoy describes to me as the type we can do without

          • Monti

            You can do without me, simply ignore my post & move on to the next one.

            • dl2068

              No, its types like you that Paul should ban from this blog, you will always be bigoted, I had a Father like you and he embarrassed me with his bigotry and hatred of Celtic.

            • Monti

              @dl2068
              You need to accept others opinions, if you cannot do that then you are a bigot yourself, the things I have listed in my post regarding the now extinct establishment club,are all factually correct, there are many fans of other football clubs in Scotland who despise Rangers for their sectarianism & cheating. Are you going to argue with all the other fans who agree with my sentiments.
              Rangers WERE a disgrace!

            • dl2068

              Simple fact on here is….You dont give an opinion, all you can spout is bigotry and hatred! FFS at least admit it.

        • Mick holland

          Monti, I for one am 100% in agreement with you. I am no spring chicken and go back to the days when I couldn’t get a job because the gers fans would not have taigs in their workplace. I left my house every morning as a school kid, and the factory which joined my back yard had a sign up which advertised jobs, with the added words no Catholics need apply. The old rangers (yes they are dead) were the team who represented my oppressors, and if anyone believes we should in any way sympathise with these people they can count me out. Their arrogance and their so called superiority over Catholics is the same today(possibly worse) as it was then, and I for one have no intention of allowing them to either lord it over me, or bully me.
          For the first time since reading John Boys blogs, I am to say the least disappointed.
          Turning the other cheek never worked against the nazi hoardes, and will never work with the peepul.

    • …. And people like you, with a chip on their shoulder that will last a million years is EXACTLY why this country is in the very state it is over football and religion.

      You should actually be ashamed of yourself! You are bitter, twisted and a poor indictment of everything that is wrong in this land.

      Grow up

      • Monti

        I am bitter but I wasn’t born that way, it developed through being made to feel second class & discriminated against.

        • Not be the first person in this world to feel they have been brought up and treated second class but my answer to them would be the same. No matter if they are gay, black, Muslim or whatever it is about urself that has made you feel second class!

          Go out and prove people wrong and use the anger for something positive not to sit around moaping about the past and using it as a mechanism to spread your own hatred of people/things.

          Society has changed, and everyone (in this country at least) has the same opportunities in life! Yes, others may have a foot up it would appear because of finance or connection but for the majority of us we are dealt the same hand, no matter your colour, creed or sexuality!

          The reason for that is because the very people that felt wronged in the first place didny sit infested by their anger.

        • david

          M.O.P.E.
          Maybe its because of your behaviour?

        • graham

          Who made you feel like that in this country monti ?
          My wife is 1st generation immigrant into this country and the only time she was discriminated against was when she went to school …
          A catholic school !’
          So don’t give me your poor downtrodden discriminated
          Big bad indigenous scottish prods limited my chances in live !!
          This is not South Africa of the last century !

    • graham

      Monti ,
      A feel sorry for you my man , you really have so much hatred for my club , my religion and my country ..
      Despite your often vented hate filled posts , (sometimes rants such As your last post) i don’t hate you , your club or your religion ..
      However I am finding harder and harder as you only see one side of this sectarian problem we have in our great country ..
      Oh and by the way my club is not dead
      Then
      Now
      Forever

      54 titles and still going on !!

      • gerrysweeney2012

        Actually Scottish law says your club is dead. Accept it and move on. You now support a new club and nothing you say can change that.

        • graham

          Sorry my friend we are not dead but as I keep saying don’t take my word ask Uefa and all the other organisations that you mope’s have pleaded with to say we are dead !!

          Then
          Now
          Forever

        • willy wonka

          Good God ! Yet another lawyer appears from the midst of the deluded !
          FAIL !

          • gerrysweeney2012

            PLease explain fail. Scottish law clearly states that once incorporated a football club is undistinguishable from it’s corporate identity. Put simply, club and company are the same. Accept that and move on

      • Monti

        I beg your pardon Graham, I don’t hate protestants or Scotland, i don’t hate ANY religion.
        I DID hate Rangers, why? Because they discriminated against CATHOLICS, MY RELIGION! It’s still happening to this day. Fran Sandaza let their wee secret out, ” Don’t bless yourselves here Fran”
        Why wasn’t allowed to bless himself Graham?
        Why is it only in Scotland this is made an issue?
        Who is it offending Graham?
        Why is it offending them Graham?

        WELL???????

        • graham

          Sorry monti I must have misinterpreted your posts stating your hatred of rangers / their fans and of course Britain and the British ..
          Must have picked u up wrong ! Eh
          Sorry Mate
          Rule Britannia them !!

    • willy wonka

      Here you go Monti –
      ” John DC Gow ‏@JohnDCGow 2h
      The Wolfe Tones, who have made pro-IRA music videos inside Celtic Park, will play at HT in the next Celtic match at Cork on Sunday.
      John DC Gow ‏@JohnDCGow 2h
      If Celtic allow their fans to be entertained by bands with albums like ‘Rifles of the IRA’ it makes a mockery of zero tolerance initiatives.

      Build bridges ? I’ll agree with you on one point, I want NOTHING to do with terrorist-supporting scumbags like you who’ll applaud the above.

      As for the article and thoughts on “real” celtic fans ? Well done to the blogger and to ALL football fans who support their team.

      • gerrysweeney2012

        Define terrorists? The IRA fought against British imperialism and only sought to free their country. Does that make them terrorists? The British army fought an illegal war in Iraq and were party to the murder of thousands of innocent Iraqis. The British army murdered thirteen unarmed people taking part in a demonstration. The British army murdered it’s way through India and Africa. Does that make them terrorists? You decide

      • Monti

        The Wolfe Tones are fantastic,seen them a few times now at the Barrowlands!
        Quality!

      • jjbhoy

        @willy wonka,so what about the collusion in northern Ireland,between the R.U.C. and the loyalists to kill the catholics,you always try to take the moral high ground and leave out the bad bits,sound familiar willy? The same as your club is doing before our very eyes,aye,we don’t want the debt,but want the history,the rangers way willy! All aboard the big BLUE bus!

        • willy wonka

          jjbhoy. You’ve made a roaring tit of yourself on here umpteen times. Maybe you should just go and get yourself another username ?
          Lol.

          • jjbhoy

            @willy wonka,the biggest tit on these Celtic sites,ever.A new name, willy wonka,says it all really. I might start calling you the chocolate factory and that applies to baith ends,which i do find hard to distinguish between and don’t forget your tampons for the mooth either,ya tit!

    • OldFirm 1

      The Rangers hand will be clad in white gloves to signify that they did not spill their own blood in the Boyne massacre. Not in my name either. I’m delighted the cheats went bust. Justice!

  10. Monti

    @Maggie

    BLEED GREEN!

  11. Gerry M

    Well said JB

  12. Budweiser

    JB.

    Once again a good post . A nice bit of balance.

  13. Ed Paisley

    I enjoyed reading your article Johnbhoy but I think I disagree with a single fundamental issue. This club had a discriminatory employment policy up to 1989. They are not a church, they are not just a commercial organisation, they are an important sporting institution. Sporting institutions should be committed to fair play and equal access to all creeds and colours. Rangers subverted those principles and I would like to hear an official expression of contrition from Rangers FC’s chairman – for their discrimination against Roman Catholics, for their riding roughshod over the football rules (player registration) and for a wreckless profligacy from 1989 that left millions of pounds of creditors high and dry.

    A few words of contrition – then lets embark on a new era of wholesome co-operation and enrichment of Scottish Society.

    • Monti

      Well said Ed, looking forward to you being described as ” someone we can do without now”, but that’s not their way, I have the rights to that. 🙂
      Democracy eh?
      But only if you concur.

    • gerrysweeney2012

      Apparently we are not allowed to think like this. We are told we should forgive and forget but when you listen to the venom from Oldco/Newco regarding paedophilia, the Catholic Church, the lies being fabricated about Lee Rigsby the latest rant from their new CEO then the time for healing is not just now.

    • JohnBhoy

      Hi Ed. My thoughts on Rangers’ anti-Catholic discriminatory policy are well known and the above guest blog does not contradict that view. It was not in the remit that I set myself. I clearly state that the article is one-sided, but my honest opinion, to offer balance to my earlier guest blog.

      With reference to Rangers’ policy on Catholic players, what I omitted to comment on was Mo Johnston. I remember shouting dogs abuse at Johnston when he ran out at Celtic Park wearing the blue of Rangers. I was wrong. I should have congratulated him and Rangers for breaking the mould and changing an institutional prejudice that had gone on for far too long. It doesn’t matter that he reneged on a promise to sign for Celtic or that he signed for our greatest rivals or that he signed for money or that Souness signed him as a F*** You to Celtic. The bigger picture was more important and when a wrong is righted then, irrespective of the reasons, it should be commended.

      • “When a wrong is righted then, irrespective of the reasons , it should be commended.

        This is the very nub and I can’t agree with that viewpoint. Indeed, I take the very opposite position.
        In terms of whether or not Rangers’ signing a Catholic deserves commendation, it matters a very great deal that Souness signed Johnston as a F*** You to Celtic and it also matters that Johnston went back on his word.
        When deciding whether or not to commend someone for their actions, the most important principle to evaluate is the motivation behind the action, regardless of how they turn out. That is why, as you yourself rightly observed, Sam English deserves nothing but sympathy for the tragic fact that his actions ended the life of the Celtic goalkeeper. It would be utterly wrong to condemn English on the basis that , irrespective of the reasons , he killed John Thomson. And by the same token it would be wrong to exonerate a player who tried but failed to injure an opponent by going over the top or leaving a foot in during a challenge.

        What the Maurice Johnston signing exemplified was that even when Rangers were dragged, kicking and screaming, into the twentieth century, they still found a way to “do the right thing” in a technical sense while poisoning the atmosphere. Far from being commended, they deserved only further condemnation. They had a priceless opportunity to reject their shameful history of bigotry by making a historic signing that would set a tone of reconciliation. Instead, they chose an arrogant, confrontational approach, motivated primarily by a mean-spirited desire to inflict upon Celtic the highest possible level of anguish and humiliation. The fact that they finally had a Catholic player on their books was merely a bonus, given that UEFA had started to question why the SFA had tolerated Rangers sectarian employment policy for so long and storm clouds were threatening to gather over Scottish football as a result.

        Time after time after time, Rangers passed up opportunities to show that their attitude had changed for the better. Not only this, but they have rarely missed an opportunity to demonstrate their determination to cling to out-dated, discredited notions of Protestant supremacy while grudgingly paying lip service to notions that bigotry is unacceptable in civilised society. That deserves no commendation at all. It merely clarifies the futility of “extending the hand of friendship” to an unrehabilitated, unreconstructed institution – or its current zombie manifestation – which even now makes lists of “enemies” upon whom revenge will be wreaked in the future.

  14. Mac Tomas

    Interesting post johnbhoy, much of which I agree with, particularly the last 2 paragraphs. Perspective is often a casualty in the heat of a debate…internet rammy……..
    Where I would depart from your observation is that Rangers fans were not culpable in the demise of their club. Everyone else following an SPL club were well aware of the course that David Murray was steering for Rangers, Questions of ant sort were not being asked of his stewardship. That is not the sole preserve of the media.
    Lets hope for more measured debates, though not some insipid, humdrum backslapping. Basic civility ia all that’s required. As I posted yesterday I do not view this as a Celtic only forum, a reason that attracted me to it in the first place. I personally would like to see more fans from outside the Glasgow 2 post on here.
    One more thing, did I read this correctly, Rangers repeating their 1972 UEFA cup victory?……..surely not. 🙂

    • willy wonka

      Mac – there were many of us who were questioning Murray during his time in charge at Ibrox. There are plenty of articles available online doing exactly that. I composed at least three of them and found myself turfed off some Rangers sites for doing it.

      • jjbhoy

        @willy wonka,naw ye didnae,ye lapped it up aw day long and revelled in cesspit of success,that in my eyes,is why the game in Scotland is royally f####d, because other teams in Scotland broke the bank to keep up,only to find out that it was tax-evasion and fraud that brought your team success not off the radar wealth. Have you paid your creditors yet! All aboard the big BLUE bus!

    • JohnBhoy

      Hi Mac. The Internet was full of stories of Rangers’ impending demise. The msm, on the other hand, were either silent or telling the Rangers fans what they wanted to hear. Who would you believe: the establishment or Internet bampots? Further, SDM and Whyte and Green all promised a brighter future. They were all being economical with the truth. My own club, Celtic, had no such ambiguities to contend with: the establishment media revelled in our financial woe and and we had no love for our Board. Very different scenarios for two sets of fans. I recall one of my neighbours, a Rangers fan and ST holder, confused about who to believe. It was that lack of clarity from people they could trust that stymied the Rangers fans.

      • Mac Tomas

        Johnbhoy………much has been made of Celtic fans attitude towards Fergus, with some justification. because here lies what I consider a significant cultural difference between the 2 sets of fans. One group is historically suspicious of authority the other tends to afford it an immediate respect. Yes, it was our good fortune that Fergus was of a superior calibre to both Murray & Whyte, & of course Rangers huge misfortune. but Fergus was well aware of the pressure exerted by Celtic fans on the previous regime.
        I remember well the huge amounts of speculation & “information” regarding the fragile health of Murray’s Empire & how this would impact on Rangers, but equally I remember the huge resistance by blue noses to accepting it’s validity.
        We are were we are, in a situation were the rest of the SPFL supporters feel that there has not been enough contrition expressed by Sevco, & an acknowledgement that they are fortunate to be involved in senior Scottish football. This I feel is a barrier to healthier relations between the SPFL clubs & Sevco.

  15. Very rare I comment on this blog, mainly for the reasons you have alluded to yourself in your post johnboy!

    However credit is due where credit is due and I wouldn’t see an excellent post (both parts, actually) go past me without comment.

    I think it would be very stupid to say that Rangers are guilt free in their history as some may try, however I also think its is insane to dwell on them forever- like some would want to!

    What has happened has happened, and, although unpleasant at times and yes, people have lost out financially etc. I am afraid that is the way the laws of this land work! Rangers are not the first company to suffer insolvency and they certainly won’t be the last. Sadly, it is a daily occurrence in this day and age.

    Of course we should all feel sorry for those who suffered loss, but again, unfortunately there is little we can do about it. Fair or not, that is the way the business game pans out.

    What is important is that instead of sitting using the past as a reason for hatered, we should use it to learn lessons!

    Your story about your childhood friend is typical of the west of Scotland! We all have friends and family, neighbours and colleges of the opposite team colours or religion. Why some people feel that is a need to treat others differently, for me, shows nothing but a narrow mind and a mind we can do without!

    It’s time people decided to grow up! Take the lessons of the past and move on because the monumental chip on the shoulder from fans of both sides and beyond in Scottish football is destructive and will only hinder any chance of the game prospering, especially at a time when the game is in obvious decline.

    Again, excellent post(s)

    • Monti

      ” the game is in obvious decline”?
      How?
      I think the top division was a breath of fresh air last season.
      The Highland clubs did well, St. Johnstone & Motherwell had good seasons, Hibs had a good start & reached a cup final.
      Plenty positives for me!

      • Yeah Motherwell by 1point, st Johnston by 6!

        Highland league clubs done well! Good stuff!

        And then- the negative! Hearts and Dundee united two of the better supported clubs done… Shite! Hell even one went into admin!

        Good season tho eh!

        U know what, in the past 100 years we have been to war with Germany twice and there is less hatred towards Germans than there is fellow British citizens

        Oh and while ur at it, and while we despair over the obvious and simple bitterness of rangers fans….

        Lets leave u with the green brigade

        Now, personally, I have no issue with a group of fans that are passionate about thei club but let me ask u one question, why brigade? What was wrong with group? Crew? Etc! I presume I am looking too much into ‘brigade’?

        Stop kidding urself on champ…..

    • Jock, sitting on the dock of the bay, killing time

      What is important is that instead of sitting using the past as a reason for hatred, we should use it to learn lessons!

      So much easier said than done. But it should be done or this sad little country will never progress, never mind our football.

  16. Ach…it’s all just a bit of banter…isnt it? well? isnt it?

    An apology would go a long way to healing the wounds, instead we still get the threats and are told everyday that we are the inferior peepil.

    You dont speak for me with this article, but I respect your reasons for posting it, your post box should be bomb-free for another day.

    Hail Hail.

  17. portpower

    Thankyou again for your thoughts JohnBhoy.

    Forgiveness is the remission of sins.
    For it is by this that what has been lost,
    and was found, is saved from being lost again.
    Saint Augustine.

  18. Monti

    WELCOME MONSIGNOR LEO CUSHLEY! HAIL HAIL FROM THE CELTIC FAMILY!
    OUR PAPA IN ROME HAS CHOSEN WELL!

  19. I agree with a lot in the Blog, but there is much to disagree with also.

    I have constantly said that The SFA, SPL & SFL Leadership was not fit for purpose. We have a shiny new entity with the same people in charge… Just MORE Whitewash.

    On to RFC(IL), they died & one Unholy cover up has gone on since. Rules have been bent, broken, ignored & invented. Convoluted reasoning has been presented to ensure RFC(IL) were innocent & what has it achieved?

    DIVISION.

    Other Scottish Club Supporters KNOW they have been shafted.
    Sevco, renamed TRFC know they are THE People, are the SAME as always & will sort everyone out. Their latest CEO has reiterated this. Where is the chance of Peace or Unity there. Scottish Football is F*cked & the Leadership has caused it. They sit back & wait for the dust to settle & will continue as normal, or what THEY perceive to be norma.

    If the RFC(IL) situation had been handled within then rules, RFC would have been relegated, the SFA would have advanced them the money to finish the Fixture List & who knows what would have happened then? Given the FTT Result, that pressure would have been off, although subject to Appeal.

    I think RFC would STILL have been Liquidated, there was too much crap attached to them & once the Rule bending & breaking started we entered a darker realm…. It is EVERYONE Else’s Fault & TRFC WILL sort us all out when the time comes… How is THAT conducive to live & let live & heal wounds etc.

    The simple truth is Scottish Football & it’s Supporters were Cheated, By their Leadership in favour of ONE Club, it is STILL going on. Against a background of leaked documents, admissions by Green he screwed Whyte etc, The SFA decide that NO Investigation is required… HOW can wounds heal when the scabs are continually picked&7 the wounds are festering?

    The HISTORY of RFC(IL) will ALWAYS be there., if the shenanigans had not gone on & RFC(IL) had been allowed to die with dignity then. TRFC would in the eyes of the supporters STILL be their team… I am sure the numbers would have been there to rebuild honestly. THAt would have taken the pressure off & all the Bullsh*t of green & overspending to pretend would not have been necessary… supporters would have danced & celebrated the 3rd division & felt onwards & upwards.

    So no, I DON’t see things improving, if anything I expect More polarisation as the whitewash continues.

    The Scottish Football Leadership is unfit for purpose & until that is changed root & branch, there will be no improvement in the situation… We KNOW more rules will be broken or ignored if required…

    as i said it festers on. THAT is HONESTY not Bigotry. , .

  20. dirtymac

    Tin hat on, but please read the following not as a damning indictment on Rangers, but against all football clubs of that era (and indeed later)…

    The Ibrox disaster in 1971 was fully preventable and indeed was one that several governing bodies could have done something about.

    The Scottish Office refused requests by local councils, as late as summer of 1970, to take control of regulating football stadia, instead opting to allow football clubs, mainly concerned with packing as many people into grounds as possible, to continue regulating their own grounds. Their stated reasons was that gains in safety would be marginal.

    After a civil action by an Ibrox widow, the Sheriff in charge of proceedings delivered a quite damning verdict on Rangers, stating that little had been done to improve safety on the staircase following previous incidents. In Rangers defence, they did spend what could be seen at the time as a considerable amount of money on ground improvements (clubs tended not to spend anything on ground improvements if they could get away with it).

    Around £150k was spent on various measures that tragically stopped well short of enabling over 10,000 people to exit from more than one stairwell. I’m put in mind of the old Celtic end at Parkhead at the main stand side where most fans exited after a match down a flight of stairs that could never be considered safe, and so to make things safer the council ordered Celtic to paint the stairs bright yellow in the mid 80s.

    In short, football clubs treated their fans with utter disdain and looking back I’m thoroughly appalled at my own club’s lackadaisical attitude towards crowd safety – Celtic Park, with minimal ‘area’ changes throughout the 80s and 90s was reduced in capacity from near 70,000 thru 61,000 and eventually to 53,000 when seats were put into the Jungle. Anyone at the Dundee game in 1988 will tell you what it’s like to be in a crowd of 70,000 at that stadium (fans spilling onto the track). Yet the official capacity was previously almost that amount – 67,000 in the early 80s – that was how many were considered as a safe amount – did we lose so many places when re-roofing the Celtic end that by 1988 a crowd of 70k could only be accommodated by spilling onto the perimeter track?

    Our board decided that pay at the gate was the order of that day, a day that could have seen and indeed did see thousands upon thousands more than capacity (and more than got in – several thousand were eventually locked out) turn up to witness the centenary league win – the ‘modern’ equivalent would have been Uefa deciding in 2003 that the Uefa Cup final would be pay at the gate – allowing 80,000 in one end of la Cartuja???

    It’s often difficult to look back on that cup final as being 10 years ago, it seems like yesterday, but it was also only 15 years after the centenary game. To put that into context the centenary game was fully 17 and a half years after the Ibrox disaster and our board (and others) had learned nothing from it.

    Sadly, it would take a series of other disasters, including the shambolic Heysel state of disrepair (one lower league club in Scotland responded to what happened there by propping up a perimeter wall for a period with lengths of wood at an angle), the Bradford fire and tragically culminating in another avoidable one in 1989 before authorities would do something about crowd safety, but not before vilifying the victims of their own (the authorities) incompetence.

    Treatment of supporters was routinely disdainful but often quite disgusting and sub-human. To paraphrase a Rangers slogan: They Were People.

    With kids, they were kids, some would never have kids, would never grow old and would never again attend the game that bruised, battered, neglected and ultimately killed them.

    A bit of a rant, sorry, but I hate reading that these disasters could not have been foreseen – they were waiting to happen.

    RIP the 66, the 56, the 39, the 96 and all others forgotten in the mists of time.

    • Mac Tomas

      I can remember leaving the Jungle after playing Rangers, & the crush in Janefield Street, had more than a few of us quietly panicking. This happened on more than once. The Ibrox disaster & Hillsborough are examples of how the Custodians of the game & authorities viewed the customers. they were considered with little respect if any.

  21. 2 sides of the 1 coin

    As someone else said……….speechless.

    A wonderfully balanced piece with, as others have said, a few bits i dont agree with.

    The true test will be in the reaction of others and in honour of the sentiment behind it, i am not going to react or counter argue a single post on this blog.

    Having said that, I will be on holiday from early next week and its therefore unlikely i will be posting for quite a while, if at all again.

    Might be a nice way to bow out actually. 🙂

    There is hope after all. 🙂

    Doffs cap to this blog.

    • Monti

      Yeah you probably don’t agree they broke the rules!
      You probably think their still alive!

    • JimBhoy

      @2sot1c No idea why you got a TD for that reply, pretty pathetic really… Good reply mate.

    • cam

      Enjoy your holiday 2sides,,,you gave the foe some cold steel,,,they don’t like it up ’em.
      Mission accomplished.

    • graham

      2s
      I doff my cap to you sir .
      You have constantly defended our club in an articulate non bigoted way , I wish I had a fraction of your intelligence and wit ..
      Bon voyage . Have a good well earned holiday

    • Mac Tomas

      2bob……enjoy your holiday, after your Herculanian propaganda posts last night I think your entitled to some time off….. 🙂 However, Reports this morning suggest that it was not as pretty a picture as you painted. It never is for any set of fans.
      Yes there is hope…….@graham & cam……. I have no love or much respect for what Rangers have traditionally stood for, but equally I have no desire to spit on or burn a Union Flag. So when I voice a counter political opinion or criticism I have no right to expect nor should I, unequivocal agreement from blue noses, or anyone else for that matter. However, I should not be invited to back my bags & leave the country.
      On that basis we can negotiate a way forward..

    • JohnBhoy

      Did I not do a wee post about hope lol? Have a good holiday 2 sides.

  22. Raymilland

    A very well intended post by JohnBhoy, which if had com from an RFC source would have been heartening.

    It is Mather’s who needs to make such public admission of gratitude. Meanwhile the SPFL ‘lion’ bastards continue to run the game into oblivion.

    To ignore the chaos caused by the actions of SDM/Whyte & the SFA/SPL would be a step too far for me.

    This pantomime must be played out to a finale. The same people responsible for this mess cannot possibly be allowed to continue in their posts. We all know who they are.

    • Monti

      I have been consistent on this one Ray!
      Doncaster,Regan & particularly Ogilvie have to go,it really is that simple!
      There will be others in the cloak of the background as well, the blazer wearing brotherhood.
      Looking forward to the son of Dallas making his first ‘honest mistake’ involving Celtic, it certainly won’t be a penalty award to us.

    • JohnBhoy

      Hi Ray. My guest blog part II does not ask that SDM/Whyte or the SFA/SPL be absolved of their shenanigans. That was not the remit I set myself for Part II. I argue in Part I that the SFA has to be held to account. I have posted on numerous occasions my views on SDM/Whyte. They should not be absolved of the part they played in not only Rangers’ downfall but the tarred image of Scottish football. However, matters need to be concluded in a way that is not about seeking revenge on Rangers. The biggest culprits in all of this is the SFA. They watched while Scotland burned.

      • Raymilland

        JohnBhoy,

        I agree that the SFA enabled the entire fiasco; their failure to administrate is a primary cause of problems that could have been nipped in the bud from an early date.

        The sentiment of your latest post is very generous in praise of previous stalwarts of RFC; the likes of Baxter & Greig. Sure, they once had a club to be ‘proud’ of, not so much lately; the ordinary supporter always carries the burden of his club’s failure whether that stems from the field of play or otherwise.

        My problem is in respect to the vanity of the above ‘pride’.
        In my opinion, any pride in RFC is misplaced. The core of their pride is akin to that of an Aryan race mentality.

        Putting the ball in the back of the net and winning trophies only converts to bragging rights for some, to me, a club is about much more than finishing top of the table, there must be more to the foundation of a club which reflects personal integrity. I don’t see much of that emanating from Ibrox.

        I know! We are discussing football, not really the ethos of humanity. I’m sorry; I just can’t stand the bastards.

  23. Monti

    TODAY’S DAILY RECORD:

    GRAEME SOUNESS” IF I HAD STAYED AT RANGERS I’D HAVE PLANTED A FLAG IN THE MIDDLE OF CELTIC PARK”

    RECONCILIATION, THE RANGERS WAY EH?

    • I am sure he would have, A big WHYTE flag,
      administration followed by liquidation, this is the factual story of RFC 1872,a Failed football club,
      At a new club, ( Sevco) the largest share holder, announced that he had bought RFC 1872’s titles and would claim them for his new club, the Dupies fell into line as they now had a majority shareholder/CEO that was prepared to visit Ulster wearing the old orange top,make Rants about bigotry and the mob had a new leader,
      Where is he now ?

      • Monti

        We’ve to let it go Coatbrig, let them cheat all the clubs, sing loudly about killing Catholics, they don’t need to pay taxes as the politicians will speak up for the ‘ institution’ just let them tell Sandaza not to bless himself,just turn the other way mate,everything is ok, let’s remember our place now.Rangers have done no wrong, they have always paid their taxes on time,they have no creditors left unpaid, they have won all their trophies in a fair manner, Andy Goram did not wear a black armband in support of a Loyalist killer, Rangers fans don’t sing about killing Catholics, they never had a sectarian signing policy,it was all Peter Lawwell’s fault.
        Never mind all of that, give one a cuddle & forgive them………..FFS???

        • jjbhoy

          @Monti,The truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth,but that’s not allowed as it’s the level playing field and having to abide by the rules that they cannot handle one iota! All aboard the big BLUE bus!

  24. Alross

    I hav’t posted here for ages. My reasons were based on the bile that flowed to and fro, the hate, the entrenched silos people were in and seemed incapable of moving from or indeed wanting to move from. I decided today to have a wee peek and JohnBhoy you might just have got me to come back, excellent post.more regularly

  25. david

    Havent always seen eye to eye with you, Johnboy, but the blinkers are well and truly off with that post.
    Good on you.
    A thoroughly decent and erudite post.

    Well done.
    Cant help but notice Monti just cannot join the human race.
    I refer to you to my last post in a similar vein in the last topic.
    And, I wasnt having a dig at Celtic, I meant what I said.

    Tone could be Presbyterian!
    Wish I could be a saint like the late Gordon Wilson; Im not, for me it would have been death and hell for every one of the murderers.

    A big well-done, and thank you; timing was spot-on.

    • Monti

      Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Monti again zzzzzzz bigot zzzzzzzz liar zzzzzzzz Falklands zzzzzzzzzz. I think you have an unhealthy obsession with Monti.

    • gortnamona

      For the further edification of David

      The worst kind of terrorism is that inflicted on a helpless minority by a permanent and powerful government with a vicious armed police force and a rabid sectarian paramilitary force at its command.

      • david

        So, the answer is to kill innocent nurses?

        What a tit.

        • gortnamona

          No David
          The answer is not to kill nurses or for the British Army to murder 14 innocent Civil Rights marchers in the streets of Derry or for members of a Scottish regiment to stab two young farmers to death with grapes and pitch forks in a field outside Newtownbutler.

          The answer was for Protestants and Unionists to treat Catholics with decency respect and fairness, but that quite simply never occurred to them.

          Try to get it into your thick skull that it was the evil of sectarian bigotry and Protestant/Unionist intransigence that was was the root cause of all the death and destruction.

        • Monti

          How many innocent nurses did Bomber Harris kill?
          From a safe distance?

          • david

            Of course, Monti, far be it for you to condemn your Luftwaffe friends who rained death on your fellow countrymen.
            What an imbecile you are.

            • Are you including the Luftwaffe piolets that are blood relatives to the Brutish Crown, them Luftwaffers ?

            • david

              Coatbrig, dont know what a piolet is, is it some kind of German dancer.

              Your post is astonishing; much of the aristocracy joined the RAF; as far as I am aware none joined the Luftwaffe.
              Can you name and German pilots directly related to the Royal Family?

              You just cant help yourself, you would side with the devil if he was attacking Britain

    • gortnamona

      ” Tone could be Presbyterian!”
      Theobald Wolfe Tone was born Church of Ireland.

    • gortnamona

      David
      ” I refer to you to my last post in a similar vein in the last topic. And, I wasnt having a dig at Celtic, I meant what I said.”

      You are a liar and a coward, scuttle back to your sectarian hole you pathetic little mouse.

      • david

        Calling me a coward?
        A liar?
        Sectarian?

        You are having difficulty with the truth , arent you.
        I have never posted 1 single sectarian post on this blog, but decried plenty.
        I have never told 1 lie on this blog, but exposed plenty.

        Coward?
        Easy internet hard man talk- jerk-off

    • JohnBhoy

      No problem David. Thanks for your comments. Genuinely appreciated.

      I have to defend Monti, though. He’s been getting it in the neck for a long time now, quite relentlessly, without any breathing space to shake hands. He has tried to call a truce at times but been rebuffed and had his earlier posts thrown back in his face, often with extra ridicule for good measure.

      I know his posts can go beyond the pale at times but he reacts when he’s under attack or he witnesses others mock the Irish, Catholics, Celtic, etc. Monti then responds in kind. I’ve been there David and I’ve responded in the same way that Monti has. It’s wrong but it’s so easy to do. And if someone keeps reminding you of your past sins then there comes a point when you say “what the hell, I might as well be hung for a sheep…”

      Alternatively, it is Monti that starts a post using language or views that he knows will upset others, as I have done, and then others respond in kind. Monti, at some stage, tries to call a halt and start afresh but then is rebuffed and it’s back to square one. It is strange that others can have a vicious punch-up and people move on but when it’s Monti he’s always had to contend with someone popping up to wave a banner about a past transgression.

      Monti’s still smarting, as are his opponents, but he’ll come round and so should they. I’m keeping out of his way in case he gives me a mouthful!

      • david

        I offered the hand of friendship in the last post but was rebuffed.
        Its still open, but the bigotry and bullshitting has to stop.

        You cannot accuse me of being one-sided.

      • Stevie

        With regard to Monti. –
        “He has tried to call a truce at times and been rebuffed”

        It is true that he has asked for a truce and forgiveness on about three occasions inclusive of one from myself about six weeks ago. The hand of friendship was extended and Monti lasted less than a week before resorting to type.
        It seems there is little hope for him as his hatred appears to know no bounds. Sad really,but he really doesn’t do himself any favours.
        What is even sadder is the amount of TD’s he get’s on here from silent lurker’s who back him up but do not comment. Most of his post’s are either in detriment to anything and everything that pertains to the U.K., or his pro IRA bumph.
        It really is all the the man has to offer,and this blog would be better off without him. There are still huge hurdles left to be overcome when viewpoints like Monti’s are resoundedly supported. It is not entirely up to the Rangers side of things to embrace change.
        Sadly idon’t see this changing during my lifetime nor Monti’s for that matter. We can but try to leave a legacy for our own children and grandkid’s but there will always be people like Monti who can’t stop hating…on both sides.

      • willy wonka

        Sorry JB but Monti deserves every single bit of abuse he receives. His “hand of friendship” lasts up until the next time he can afford a wee bottle of Smirnoff Ice at which point he reverts to type and repeats his terrorist supporting guff.
        His apologies fool nobody.
        I’ve said it before – he should’ve been banned by the site moderator a long long time ago.

  26. JimBhoy

    @JohnBhoy Nice one….

  27. JimBhoy

    Good to see Eco post…. 🙂

  28. cam

    Bugger it!,,just as Wattie had given the blue light for me to ride out and finish off the last few survivors of this nuthouse,JB rolls a big fecking wooden horse outside the gates.
    This will need careful consideration and could have long lasting effects(a week) on my blogging career.
    A big group hug(nae huddles) and peace in our time.
    After the gallant pioneers planted the Union Jack on top of this Iwo Jima,it seemed ungracious to gloat that we had taken the enemy’s colours,,,so i gloated!
    In respect of this armistice i shall grant you all another Cam free week so that you can up your game.
    I’m thinking of moving into local politics and standing as a cooncillor,,the bhoys in GCC will love me.
    Morag has been complaining that i spend too much time abusing you poor souls and that i’m as much use to her as Sami.

    http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/iwoflag.htm

  29. The fact remains that rangers were a breeding ground of intolerance, fascism and only progressed to be such a big and successful club on the back of bigotry, they would never have had such a huge support otherwise.

    I am no different to many in that i too have friends who are/were rangers followers who are decent folk, but that does not change the fact that their club devoured itself from the inside out while rubbing our nose in it, it is not the fans but the club that i can not feel any compassion for, it all could have been so different, they could not accept what happened, what THEY did and despite being given a birth straight back into scottish football with many a twist and tweek of the laws and rules, not to mention secret deals, they have come out snapping and snarling with the promise of retribution!

    What! retribution for what? Allowing them back? Allowing them to change their name to a similar name incorporating “The” in front of rangers from sevco? What has to be understood here is that it is the club that died and the replacement that has decided to go down the same path that gets up everyone’s nose, not their followers, because this club that has decided it is the club that was has shown no sign of contrition, look at what they have done to scots football! And they show nothing but arrogance, no regret.

    It all could have been so different…. IF they had wanted it to be so, but they didn’t, they appealed to the mob and the mob came running, especially that minority part lol. No the club does not need to be caressed, they would not thank you, its ego is far too big as it is and this baby monster is going to be a lot wilder with its dignity than you ever could imagine, IF it ever gets back on track, I’m sorry but it is not the rest of scottish football that needs to offer this olive branch, only don’t hold your breath waiting on it being offered in the opposite direction.

    We did nothing wrong and only want a fair sporting environment, that is all nothing more nothing less!

  30. Ian4300, good post
    Johnbhoy, you cant have reconciliation if one party is unrepentant.

  31. Monti

    John bhoy I think you’ll find it was the cup winners cup they won in ’72.
    You know the trophy deemed so important they got rid of it.
    Awarded in a toilet some say?
    Dignity eh?

    • willy wonka

      And which, despite a European ban saw Rangers and its wonderful fans invited back to Barcelona in recognition of their standing up to Francos fascist police tactics.
      I’m proud to say I was at both matches.

      • jjbhoy

        @willy wonka,having personally read the Catalan view on rangers euro visit,you once again make up utter drivel about your wonderful fans and being invited back,nonsense. Your fans,urinated fought running battles and showed no respect to the beautiful city of Barcelona,it’s patrons or it’s culture,whereas when Celtic visited Spain during our euro jaunt with Mr.O’Neill the citizens welcomed us with open arms,you liar!

        • willy wonka

          That will be why Barcelona invited Rangers back then, will it ? Not drawn against them. INVITED.
          btw , you missed out “destroyed the cathedral”. Lol. I’ve read these lies too on sellik minded websites.
          Stick to what you “know” doughheid. [which isn’t very much, is it ?]
          Remind me again, how many titles did you say Rangers won before ra tic were formed ?
          Haw haw haw !

          • jjbhoy

            @chocolate factory,your club died,so we will now pass your haul of titles(without cheating) and there ain’t Jack shit you can do about it. I also stated that no matter what pish you spout,you won a very large part of your trophies(ILL-GOTTEN GAINS)through having the refs in your pocket and you cannot bring yourselves to admit it,bawheid! Have you paid the Queen her monies owed,have you paid the LONG LONG list of creditors,we dont do paying our dues,is the new cry of the fine upstanding presbyterian club that was formerly known as ra gers! ha-ha ragers ha-ha!

  32. Nice to see so many posters are against discrimination. I take it that includes the current sectarian school policy adopted by you know who. Or is that kind of discrimination ok?

  33. Fra

    @JohnBhoy…..I found myself agreeing with most of what you say but still have that little piece of me who feels nothing but hatred to the dead club for what they put other supporters through. As I have stated similarly to your posts, many of my friends were from the dark side (Just kidding). Good friends, neighbours and colleagues who have a sense of decency towards others.

    When I venture into the bears den or similar, I am left with a sense of dismay. How do these people actually function. For they seem to be utterly devoid of any sense of how they are viewed. This is the scum with which I cannot feel forgiveness for.

    Forgive and forget is just a step too far for me when these imbeciles are involved. As stated before JohnBhoy, well done and I admire your effort but to these idiots, I would find that step far too big an effort.

    Ditto…Good to see Eco back…cue Cameron’s disdain

    • gortnamona

      Rangers are and always have been a focus and rallying point for extreme Protestant sectarianism bigotry hatred and violence. They contaminate everything that they come in contact with. That will never change. All the pious expressions of goodwill and hope for the future will not change things in the slightest.

      Celtic are not remotely to be compared to the diseased obscenity, that has nothing whatever to do with football or sport.

  34. Johnbhoy
    you talk of Rangers, the club and the fans, you say no one can take the club away,regardless of liquidation law,
    so is the club,just the fans ?
    would these same fans turn up if the SFA had said, RFC 1872 is no more they died of self inflicted debt, but the good news is, you can start again, call the new club Rangers, play at the same stadium,
    would 50,000 have turned up?
    you say we as fans on this blog forget we are but rivals and not enemies,
    Ok i can grasp that, but can i ask, why do THE rangers,Green(orange top) McCoist, Mather et al talk of RFC’s enemies, talk of the days of reckoning to come in the future ect,
    The fans are not owners and managers or CEO, fans can sing and dance,bawl and shout because we are but fans,
    When those that run clubs,old or new use the worst of the language, that the fans use, to sell season tickets and shares,are we to turn a deaf ear ?

    • Ed Paisley

      Hey Coatbrigbhoy – we are having a Christmas truce here and you are in danger of ruining it!

      • willy wonka

        @ Ed – Coatbrig, much like Monti, Mick, Gortna and a few others here aren’t interested in any Christmas truce.
        Their whole existence relies on hating Rangers. Nothing to do with football or supporting any other team. It’s simply all about hating..
        Sad really.

        • gortnamona

          Wonka
          I grew up as a Catholic in an extreme Protestant sectarian state. I grew to hate those responsible. Rangers are a rotten sectarian anachronism that will never change. You with your constant references to child abuse are one of the putrid by products of that sectarianism.

          • willy wonka

            @gort – look to your own when criticising me for mentioning child abuse.
            The poster [and worlds first surviving brain-donor] jjbhoy brought the whole subject up on this thread.
            As to your main point – “hate”. Exactly as I said earlier and confirmed by yourself.

            • gortnamona

              “As to your main point – “hate”. Exactly as I said earlier and confirmed by yourself”

              Well thank heavens for that, I’ve got through to you at last.

              I hate sectarianism and bigotry and those who foster them and I hate those who are rotten enough to use the scourge of child abuse to score a sectarian point. Now piss off back to the gutter with cam & Carson.

            • jjbhoy

              @willy wonka,methinks we hit a wee nerve there willy,now who,between Celtic and Rangers fans is always the first to bring up child abuse or besmirch our greatest manger with big Jock knew chants,ya liar. Thanks for the brain-donor recognition,as to have a transplant i would’ve had a brain in the first place,you on the other hand…. All aboard the big BLUE bus!

        • Mac Tomas

          Wonka……….. it’s easy to dismiss criticism or an opposing opinion as the product of hatred. In fact it seems to be used as the scatter gun by Ibrox to deflect anything from any source. It’s not just Celtic supporters who get the “Rangers Haters” treatment. When anyone takes a dim view of anything Sevco it’s dismissed as “Rangers Hating”

          • willy wonka

            @gort. “I grew up as a Catholic in an extreme Protestant sectarian state. I grew to hate those responsible”.
            So you hate a section of society, and lets be honest here, you mean Protestant, just because of where you happened to grow up ?
            “”I hate sectarianism and bigotry and those who foster them .”
            You’re saying you’re a self-loather ?
            Jesus ! That AND a sellik supporter ? You have my sympathy. Lol.

            And I’ll say it for the second time on this thread – perhaps you might have a wee word with your fellow “sellik fan” jjbhoy ? HE brought up Torbett and in fact, quite incredibly, tried to put the blame for his disgusting criminal actions at Rangers door. Got that ?

            • jjbhoy

              @willy wonka,you just can’t help yourself can you,HE brought it up. You and your fans were the first to EVER bring this to the table and if you read job history you will find that Jim Torbett worked for Rangers,before Celtic,and rangers got rid of him because of his actions and what i ACTUALLY said was,that rangers never informed the relevant authorities and let Celtic employ him,fact,no lies. And that willy has no moral ethic in the presbyterian code of ethics,does it?

            • gortnamona

              Piss off wonka you are a fantasist and an idiot.

        • Monti

          Don’t think so, my love for Celtic & the people who follow Celtic has been my passion all my life, this was & is a lifetime commitment I will never break, the love I have in my heart for Celtic grows with me.
          WE ARE ALL NEIL LENNON!

          • willy wonka

            @gort – is that it ? Is that your answer ? Wow !
            You’d have been better served just letting it go son.
            Lol.

        • Jamie

          But you gave us so much to hate!

  35. Ed Paisley

    I am very pleased that there has been an outbreak of civility on this site. Perhaps we will have Violet on later telling us how lovely we are.
    In this new generous spirit, perhaps we can refer to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain by his proper name and desist from the usual character assassination. In return, I will stop referring to Rangers as S***O. It is all so childish.

  36. Like most readers of Johnbhoys post, there are agreeable, and disagreeable portions, and there lies the rub!
    Total agreement from all quarters is an impossible goal. It cannot be achieved.
    The sentiment and “took a step back” logic of the article though is impossible to deny.
    To achieve the sentiment, then quarter must be given on all sides. In my opinion strong honest goverance and more importantly, governors, are the only way to achieve this. We do not have this.!
    The air must be cleared, and a respected figurehead must be found who is prepared to take to a soapbox, and tell the truth to the Scottish fitba’ public WTF went on! He must name names, and point fingers.
    They can be dealt with,nd the matter put to bed. Only a fair system of governance, honest governors, and the purity of the sport will save our game from implosion.
    It should have happened a long time ago,
    It is time to name and shame the offenders, and for fans to come together to bury the hatchet…..In their heads. Not each others!
    I would nominate Sir Alex Ferguson (but I am open to suggestions) for presidency of the presently corrupt SFA, and be that figurehead
    His brief would be simple. “Tell us the truth, and kick some arse!” ……And if there is anything you need, just ask.

  37. What has Rangers contributed to society?

    A stadium ….to be used by sectarian anti irish racists and bigots,
    Oh they were FORCED to sign a Catholic or two,
    the fans/clubs reaction to MO JO signing (as they are one and the same) was disgusting,
    up until last season those wonderful fans were still giving the Billy boys a loud voice all around Scotland and Berwick,
    are we to ignore ESPN’s over hearing those 3 or 4 fans that sang loud and proud that day,
    how loud and straight forwardly did the Manager or CEO express they outrage, is the new club ,owners, CEO’s and fans any different than those that were there before MO Jo signed up for the Rangers

  38. “The Rangers fans are not to blame for their current predicament. ”

    The fans demands and sense of entitlement, to be number one drove on SDM,
    How many of the fans danced in the streets when it was Announced by the SMSM that WHYTE was a billionaire,
    we will finish off Celtic now, we will buy our way to 10 in a row on the back of Whytes money, The SPL was yet again going to become the biggest one horse race in football,all on the back of a sugar daddies money
    the blogs and the newspapers were filled with “fans” urging on Whyte.
    Warchest had to big and fuller than ever before

    can you also remember one of the first things the fans demanded of Whyte, no price increase,
    Whyte capitulated to the fans demands

    • gortnamona

      ” WHYTE was a billionaire, we will finish off Celtic now, we will buy our way to 10 in a row on the back of Whytes money, The SPL was yet again going to become the biggest one horse race in football,all on the back of a sugar daddies money”

      ” Murray said; “For every five pounds Celtic spend, we will spend ten,” in 1998.”

      Triumphalism sectarian superiority, nothing remotely to do with sport.

      Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose

      • Mac Tomas

        @gort……my & many other Celtic fans eternal frustration is that a magnificent opportunity was handed to new Rangers (Sevco) by the demise of the old club. They had a chance to reinvent & distance themselves from a shadowy history. They chose not to. That “History” was too important to them..
        A leader with greater moral backbone than Charles Green would have had the courage to declare we are a new club with a new perspective.

  39. confused dot bear

    As a Rangers fan I’m getting a bit concerned about all this talk of monthly losses, over spending, admin, etc etc.

    I’d like to see Rangers cut through all this gossip and just tell us, the fans, exactly where we stand financially.

    It seems that people can’t even agree on simple facts like when the accounts are due. I’ve read about five different versions.

    For example, lots of comments and disagreement on lse.co.uk but not sure what it all means http://www.lse.co.uk/SharePrice.asp?shareprice=RFChere

    Only “TBC” under “Key dates” for investors on the Rangers website http://www.rangers.co.uk/business-centre/investor-centre/key-dates

    I’ve asked this on some Rangers sites and to be honest they made me sound like a Celtic fan stirring things.

    I’m not looking for opinions on what the accounts will contain, just when can we all see the facts instead of opinions. Does anyone here KNOW how it works, and if so can you please explain.

  40. “If Rangers had gone straight to the bottom division, as their fans wanted,”

    The fans are convinced to a man they are the same club, they have been dupied by this mantra to the extreme,

    so they are the same club, the holding company done for them, the new holding company wants to play in the SPL, yet the fans marched on Hampden to be allowed access to the 4th tier, is that how it went,

    the fans boycotted Dundee United because of how that club voted,
    the club and the fans have declared a day of reckoning in the future because they were not voted into the SPL, they threatened and accused people of kicking them when they were down,
    almost every Rangers fans believes that to many punishments were handed out to their club.

    ask any of them to post a list of punishments handed down,

  41. The club. The one-million dollar question: is it a new club? My position is twofold:
    *

    YES and NO
    thanks for that Johnbhoy,

    trying to be all things to all men does not work, if the law says your bust if you run up massive debts then your bust,
    turning 50,000 people into the human equivalent of grayfriars Bobby does not bring you back to life,
    RFC 1872 .a failed football club

    http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/club-history/item/505-the-beginning-of-glory

    “Wilton was rewarded with his appointment as the Club’s first Manager as *Rangers formally became a business company*. Rangers Football Club Limited was established in March 1899” (it’s the name on the gates)

    That’s the business that is in Liquidation, that’s the business that ran up the debts and tax bills, no holding company involved

  42. portpower

    Just a bit of fun.

  43. Lemi

    A reasonable and well thought out article, unfortunately the same cannot be said of most of the comments, here or in in the bigoted, hate-filled outpourings every day in the Scotsman. Is there anywhere else on the planet there are such a bitter, hateful set of supporters as the present day followers of Celtic FC. I can relate the the author, growing up in Glasgow in the 70’s in a non-denominational school but with good friends from the local catholic school. Back then it was about rivalry and respect, not blind hatred.

    My only disagreement with the article is that it portrays Celtic as being on the side of right and Rangers being wrong. Celtic FC are a club which has tolerated (even encouraged) support for Irish republican terrorists groups for decades, deliberately covered up the disgusting activities of Jim Torbett and Frank Cairney and refused Jock Stein a place on the board of directors purely because of his religion.

    Rangers are not perfect – the discriminatory signing policy was harmful and ridiculous – but Celtic are a long, long way from being perfect also.

  44. Jon

    It doesn’t really matter what anyone says.

    Scotland and Scottish football would be better off without the rancid, corrosive influence of Rangers and its tribute act(s).

    Bigotry has nothing to do with this opinion.

  45. Gobsmacked

    Two well balanced articles, but it seems to be the tale of the Prodigal Son. Rangers Fans return to the fold and everyone else accepts that we wronged them. No remorse, we just accept the smug claim that Scottish Football needs them. The penalty for ignoring the past is of course repeating it.

  46. Re
    “Rangers has suffered four great tragedies, two of which they overcame with great dignity, a third that they could do nothing about.”
    cf:
    http://www.thecelticwiki.com/page/Rangers+-+Falling+Masonry

  47. Raymilland

    Neil Doncaster’s view, from his car, of Scottish football fans heading south.

    The fans need a good shepherd.

    Ogie Ogie Ogie out out out!

  48. You only have to read what some come back with i,e “hatred”, we hate rangers so its our fault! There is a complete lack of reason, no thought goes into it, a simple reply with the accusation of rangers haters is what we get and that is it.
    They don’t even take the time and ask themselves why scottish football supporters hate the club rangers that was and what is now a carbon copy floating round the lower divisions, they just don’t get it!

    This is a club with the same superiority complex as the one that spent itself out of existence and by god are they going to make us suffer for it.

    Be warned, pacifists are meat and tatties to these people and they will run roughshod over anyone or anything that shows the slightest bit of weakness, hatred! jeez you could not make that up, have a look at the recent posts of the hatred accusers.

  49. Monti

    I see a senior Police officer in the Hounslow chronicle confirm Celtic fans DID NOT sing songs about Lee Rigby!
    It doesn’t surprise me they didn’t! HH!

    • Lemi

      Plenty of Celtic fans on the your own forums would disagree with that – decent Celtic fans who were disgusted by the chants

      • willy wonka

        The headline is misleading. Here is a quote from the article – “The Chronicle asked the police whether any complaints had been made regarding these allegations and if an investigation was taking place.
        A spokesman confirmed no allegations of any offensive songs or chanting had been received and added if anyone knew of any specific incidents they should report them to police immediately.”
        The police are saying they received no complaints. NOT that it didn’t happen.
        Have a look at this Twitter account – @LiamJKennedy .This guy is getting serious abuse from Cetic fans because he did a newspaper article condemning the away fans actions.
        There are numerous Celtic fans who say it did happen. Most of it in a pub pre-match.

        • tykebhoy

          Its no more misleading than the spoon fed crap you post on here or the original headlines posted on this blog within two hours of the final whistle. The police have had no complaints about Brentford there is no corroborating evidence and the majority of posters on internet forums know that if they did complain to police they would risk a charge of wasting police time particularly if found to have a BT postcode or one from the SW of Glasgow.

          You also seem to have rather a lot of inside information about Tuesday night “might not work this time though. The referee and fourth official both requested that Celtic make an announcement requesting the fireworks be stopped. No announcement was made until later, after the referee spoken to the match delegate.” https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/football-is-worth-defending-part-ii-in-defence-of-rangers-by-johnbhoy/comment-page-1/#comment-98448 Were you at the ground supporting Cliftonville or have you a subscription to Celtic TV?

          • willy wonka

            No Tykie. Why on earth would I want to watch a sellik match if my side wasn’t involved ? My information comes from a Celtic employee, a family member and received earlier today in conversation..
            You don’t believe it ? Fine. We’ll see soon exactly what charge sellik face from UEFA.
            Brentford ? I took no part in any debate “within two hours of the final whistle”. I’ve pointed you towards a place where you’ll find plenty of folk who say it did indeed happen.
            Does it bother me ? Not in the slightest. Whatabootery, I’ll leave to your lot.
            As for “the majority of posters on internet forums know that if they did complain to police they would risk a charge of wasting police time ” – I’m afraid you are simply wrong in that statement. Law doesn’t work in such simple terms. More’s the pity.

            • tykebhoy

              ” Whatabootery, I’ll leave to your lot.” Is it a Govan trait not to understand Irony!

              If it doesn’t bother you why are you posting about it then?? And why have you “found” a place where plenty of folk who say it did happen.

              I repeat why have non of those folk made an official complaint that the police would investigate. Probably because if the complaint was found to be malicious and untrue and untrue the police would pursue the wasting of their time.

        • so it has went from a stadium full of Celtic fans to “most of it in a pub pre match”

          next thing we know we will be getting sold the idea that rangers Manchester riot was held in a phone box by a tiny minority.

          what happened to all those so called reports of singing in the stadium,

          two sides of a £1 coin put up countless posts about what went on inside the ground,
          now the police are asking to be bombarded by Sevconians claiming to have been there.

          • willy wonka

            coatbrig – could you point me towards where I said “a stadium full of Celtic fans” was involved ?

          • willy wonka

            @tykie – “If it doesn’t bother you why are you posting about it then?? And why have you “found” a place where plenty of folk who say it did happen.

            The clown that is named Monti came on to crow that it didn’t happen. I pointed out that the article quoted did not state that it “did not happen”. The article only says the police have received no complaints [yet ??].
            WHY have I “found a place” ? Wrong question surely ? Maybe you should READ the piece,examine what folk there are actually saying and counter the allegations ? It’s not me who’s saying it happened. I wasn’t there.
            It wasn’t me who brought the subject up. However, sellik fans saying “it didny happen” just doesn’t work any more. That ones been done to death.
            As to your “wasting police time” point – out of the thousands of spurious or false claims made annually to the police, have you any idea of how many folk are charged with that offence ? I’ll save you the trouble, practically none. The courts deal with even less.

        • tykebhoy

          Was Mr Kennedy https://twitter.com/LiamJKennedy at the match? If he didn’t I would have to wonder why a DFC/DUFC reporter for the Dundee Evening Telegraph and exiled Newcastle fan was writing an article on conduct at a match he didn’t attend.

        • Mac Tomas

          “in a pub, pre match”…….jeezuz Wonka, that’s desperate!

    • Ed Paisley

      Monti
      For enemies of Celtic FC to have made up a story like that just shocks me beyond belief. Rangers supporters can see that their team is in the gutter but instead of trying to clean up their own club, they try and drag Celtic down with them.

      • Ed, don’t forget the truce, but at the same time don’t turn your back on ANY of them

      • Stevie

        Wow …the propaganda machine has been cranked up to full throttle this fine nicht!
        Do Celtic minded people actually see themselves as innocent wee souls?
        Because that’s the impression an alien landing on this wee planet of our’s would take away with them if they read some of the comments
        on this site.
        I’m not going to record all of them on here but the number of incident’s i’ve been privvy to in my lifetime are well documented for posterity elsewhere. It is quite apparent to me that the deeply entrenched hatred for RFC is being masked under a cloud of deceitful propaganda.
        It is a fully entrenched religous hatred,nothing else.

        I remember Mo Johnston getting booed when he signed for Rangers.
        Just goes to show even when we did the right thing in a lot of people’s eyes,there were still those who would not accept it. I’ve watched Alfie Conn and Kenny Miller cross the divide between Glllasgow’s big two.
        I’ve seen post’s on here falsely claim that Rangers never signed a catholic until 1989. Ignorant whataboutery or intentional negative propaganda?

        Prior to Mo Johnston other catholic players were Pat Lafferty (1886), Tom Dunbar (1891–1892), J Tutty (1899–1900), Archie Kyle (1904–1908), Willie Kivlichan (1906–1907), Colin Mainds (1906–1907), Tom Murray (1907–1908), William Brown (1912), Joe Donnachie (circa.1914–1918) and John Jackson (1917). Laurie Blyth (1951–1952), Don Kitchenbrand (1955–1956), Hugh O’Neill (1976), John Spencer (1985–1992)

        Rangers signed Jon Daly and again incorrectly described as the first southern Irishman to play for the club. Further negative propaganda.
        He is however the first southern Irishman to captain the club when he took the armband on Wednesday night.

        Opinion and belief’s are what helps people define themselves.
        Do i agree with the Arab way of hiding their women away? No i don’t.
        Do i agree with them chopping a thief’s fingers off. No…what a barbaric society. But it is their way of life and their culture. I don’t agree with it but i don’t hate the Arabic/muslim race.

        I don’t harbour a deep hatred for catholicism either,but i am becoming increasingly aware of a bitter hatred for my country,and my way of life and culture.All of which have been paramount in making the U.K. one of the most civilised societies in the world. I’ll tell you right now i will defend it with everything i have and will not let boogeyman stories from a few republican nationalists spawning their beliefs from another place and a bygone era . I am not religious at all, it has nothing to do with religion. And there is no way religious bigotry from elsewhere will be allowed to infiltrate my thought process.Especially under the guise of false political proclamation’s fostered and nurtured away from our shores in a bygone era by hypocritical false prophet’s who think they have an opportunity of changing their lives through the demise of a football club.
        Now there’s delusion for you!

        • jjbhoy

          @Stevie,you forgot THE most important question in your speech,how many were”allowed”to bless themselves? Delusion?,your club,Stevo,died and was reformed,rehashed,rejigged into an INTERNATIONAL third rate(fourth tier)catastrophe,you all tell everyone who’ll listen,without laughing,wur no deid,wur still the same,RIGHT! And we are deluded,that,Stevo is what you call irony! All aboard the big BLUE bus. Please note,no mention of terrorism,Priests,Queens or anything unsavoury,just valid points.

          • Stevie

            Uch gie it a rest jj.
            Do you remember Gazza mimicking playing the flute and all your mob going ballistic?
            What about Big Arturo blessing himself at Ibrox?
            What about MO’N and NL walking around Ibrox cuddling each other?
            There’s just certain things you don’t do,it’s called common sense.
            Would i go into the “Sarry Heid” wi ma Rangers scarf on?…Naw, cos i know i’d get ma heid kicked in.
            So we’ll accept your argument for a second and see where it takes us eh?
            Tell big Jon D it’s okay to bless himself and watch what happens.
            Likewise tell Ian Paisley it’s okay to do a lap of honour round Celtic park in full regalia.
            Final thought on the same club/nae club debate.
            It doesen’t matter one iota to me what company owns or operates my club.
            All i know is the club i’ve followed for nearly forty years is still wearing the same colours as it always has. They are still resident and playing at Ibrox stadium in Edmonstone Drive. The same people will be sitting beside me in the Govan stand,that have been there for the past ten years or so.
            The gates of Ibrox have never been chained up denying the fans entry. We finished second in the SPL two years ago,and won the 3rd division one year ago,without an interruption in our playing history. We never missed a game. Now there’s continuity for you!

            • @Stevie
              Who was club 12 then? Never mind….They will be back soon as THE club 12.

            • jjbhoy

              @Stevie,so,Gazza was not in the wrong?. What crime did Artur commit? Martin O’Neill was cuddling his players(rangers huddle at Celtic Park!)that holds water,nae cuddlig you’ll upset RA gers fans,unbeleivable ignorance. The other few lines aboot the Sarry Heid and Ian Paisley is plainly obvious. Now your last part is the real meat on the bone,if you are the same club why have you not been made to pay the Queen her taxes,and your creditors(250+)their dues,because it’s oh so very simple,your club died. Remember the division three you had to start in with the temporary licence,again,that’s because you are a new entity. And your last piece about same stadium,fans colours,blah,blah,blah,that’s utter drivel or are all RA gers greats like Gough,Wattie to name but a few,wrong when they said,140 years of history gone,RA gers way,if it disnae suit,make it up! Haw Haw Haw,yeez coodny make it up,but yeez dae!

      • gortnamona

        Ed
        You’ve got it 100% right. That’s what the David the wonka and the cam are all about. Though I am not in the least shocked.

        The 2 sides guy spent weeks researching every trivial incident involving Celtic support in the last 20 years . Cam turned a bucket of pish in Dundee into a tsunami.

        But it just doesn’t work for them because when it comes to drunken sectarian violence, nobody but nobody is remotely in the same league as Glasgow Rangers

      • jjbhoy

        @Ed Paisley,it’s the rangers way,always has been,always will. Deny,Deflect,Sweep. When,in Jock Steins case,they know they will never achieve something,they try and tarnish that persons character,religion,belief or anything else that satisfies their lust for underhand tactics to try and get one over on their rivals(past tense). Have any of them answered the questions about a.the Queens taxes or b.their creditors?

      • willy wonka

        Ed, aye, it’s not like any sellik fan on here to make up stories, is it ? Lol.

        • Mac Tomas

          make stories up Wonka……….for instance.

          Interesting also Stevie to hear you describing Republicans of being from a bygone era. When we are not the one’s propping up a way of life that fosters the bizarre cult of Monarchy & all it’s iniquities. We consider our vision for society as progressive & not based on hatred. If you mistake it for that .then I would suggest that is your problem.

        • jjbhoy

          @chocolate factory,aye,you were invited back tae Barcelona after your diddy cup final,lies. Or what about the other numpty who said,we won nine in a row first but it was unofficial,what a dobber. And my own and most of the other Celtic fans sevco nugget,we’re still the same club,cos it’s the same stadium,colours,fans etc… Why did your club not start putting a star on their jersey when you won the first ten titles,cos yir nose wiz oot ay joint,cos we had the real mccoy,funny that innit. Liars,cheats,fraudsters,tax evaders,attempted murder on a police officer,rioters and all round good eggs or so ye keep tellin everyone till they have dealings with you and then it all unravels!

          • willy wonka

            @dumpling – “you were invited back tae Barcelona after your diddy cup final,lies.”
            Really ? Rangers were invited and played Barcelona at the Nou Camp in the final of the IX Trofeo Juan Gamper tournament on 21st August 1974.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Gamper_Trophy
            Oh dear. You’re not doing very well with your posts, are you sonny ?
            Lol.

            • dabhoys67

              @willy wonka,an your club doesn’t do paying bills,taxes now do they. Even if you were invited back,fair play,but your point is,you were invited back,that’s an argument about,were you or were you not. My argument about your club is that you have cheated,not only my club but other teams in the league,that you never paid taxes,that you had side payments to players(47MILLION)but this made no difference to the quality of player on the park,that you wer granted entry into the league without audited accounts(NOT ACCORDING TO THE RULE BOOK),that a never heard of five-way agreement had to be made up to get rangers back into the 4th tier. Now you argue about a game,my argument is that you should not even be where you are today because of messrs Ogilvie and his cohorts furnishing secret agreements and being a recipient of EBTs maybe now you will see the scale of yours to mines,but probably not.

      • willy wonka

        @Ed – here you go – ” RebelBee

        Posted 20/7/2013 20:29
        #27255 – in reply to #26519
        Subject: Re: Slightly tasty friendlies

        Stan Bowles

        Posts: 1072
        10002525

        I’m just back & struggling to contain the anger at what went on today. Our visitors sang songs celebrating the murder of drummer Lee Rigby, fights were provoked from early AM, balaclavas were worn, Provo flags and IRA chants continued throughout the game, multiple pitch invasions and finally Bees fans forced to take protection into their own hands thanks to the useless stewards and police. Celtic fans tried to smash the Brook rd goal and set off the sprinklers. I have seen harder firms than this lot over the years but never such a mass of prehistoric knuckle dragging sub humans with so little respect for others.

        Bees fans should take credit for their restraint and for not aping this tribe of morons intent on causing grief. That said the highlight of the day was seeing a bees fan chase one of these clowns back to the way end when he invaded the pitch making sectarian gestures after their 1st goal – 100 metres in under 10 seconds!

        BFC need to hold their hands up and apologise to fans for this own goal of a game.

        Oh and a match took place, Celtic reserves vs a fairly weak Bees side (particularly 2nd half) we played pretty well considering – Harlee has a bad knock. Crowd was 8500 – my guess about 6000 Celtic.

        Celtic FC your fans were a disgrace today, BFC must seek compensation!

        Read more: http://www.brentford.vitalfootball.c…#ixzz2ZcVjp0V4

        That’s not a Rangers fan . That is a local who actually attended the match.
        There are plenty more complaining about the actions of “The greatest fans in the world” on that forum.
        Or maybe they’re all Rangers fans, liars, bigots or xenophobes who hate the Irish ?
        As said, your lot saying “It didny happen” wore out a good while ago.

        • willy wonka

          And this from your own –
          ” @seaniemc1: @TynesideCelt proof? You kidding!?? I heard it first hand and was utterly ashamed!!!

          @seaniemc1: @AlbertoGranado heard it first hand and was utterly ashamed!!!

          @seaniemc1: @CrillyBobc give Sevco Ammo? You dick! It is what it is and if its so shameful then WE should not be celebrating such acts. #arsehole

          @seaniemc1: @mogw777 was there mate, Im as green as they come but was CRINGWORTHY! Only about 24 singing but still.

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