Why Won’t the Media Mention “Charlotte Fakes” and Her Rangers Documents?

Back in May I wrote about “Charlotte Fakes”. 

Charlotte seemed to have gained access to a huge amount of information relating to Rangers and to the takeover shenanigans of the last couple of years, including tape recordings of various discussions between the parties.

Despite a great deal of discussion online, the mainstream media has devoted little or no attention to the documents themselves, or to the “revelations” contained in them.

As I wrote in May:-

the source of the documents themselves, if genuine, is important. Are they being leaked by a party or someone close to the issue? Were they found by legitimate investigation or discovered abandoned in a bin? Has someone hacked a computer, or broken in to a filing cabinet?

I have no idea and therefore, until the provenance is established, I won’t devote the time to detailed analysis, simply to avoid wasting my efforts should the documents turn out to be as genuine as the Zinoviev Letter or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

I have read suggestions since then that there is a “conspiracy of silence” about what Charlotte has been releasing, and that, in some way, people have been “nobbled” to stop them commenting.

There have also been suggestions that an interdict or injunction has been granted preventing the media discussing the information produced.

So I thought I would do what I can to shed a little light on this.

First of all, it is possible that there is a court order preventing wider publication of these items. However I have no knowledge of one. It should also be said that the “super injunction” which prevents publication even of the fact that an injunction has been granted (a device which suddenyl became popular, or at least notorious, a couple of years ago) has no direct equivalent in Scotland. To obtain an interdict against the Scottish media as a whole, whilst at the same time preventing any discussion at all about the granting of the order, would not be easy.

So, on balance, I do not think that the media has been gagged (though I accept I could well be wrong!)

Secondly, why, in the absence of a court order, has nobody in the mainstream made any fuss about the relevations?

There are two reasons for this – Lord Justice Leveson is one, and doubts about the material itself is the other.

Dealing with the latter point, I believe that the material in question is “genuine”. The information I have heard, from various sources (although always, to be fair, second or third hand) leads me to accept that the documents etc have not been concocted by Charlotte. That is not to say that they might not have been created by a participant in the saga for their own purposes, but I believe that Charlotte is being only the messenger, not the creator, of any of the items.

Now the media have far greater resources than me to check these things, and I am sure that they would be happy to publicise any attempt to use “fake” documents to damage Rangers, or Mr Whyte or Mr Green or Mr Stockbridge. Indeed, if the material was false, and had apparently been created for such a purpose, then this would be a front page story.

In the same way as Sherlock Holmes noted that the key to unravelling one of his mysteries was the dog that did not bark, I think that the absence of media reports of any effort to damage Rangers by false information is itself circumstantial proof of the documents being genuine.

I should make clear that, even if the documents are genuine, the content of them might not be accepted by all parties as being correct.

We then come to Leveson.

The media has been shocked to the core by the phone-hacking revelations and then by the backlash, including Lord Justice Leveson’s report. A result has been that it is clear that the press and broadcasters are far more wary of using or referring to documents and material where they have any doubt about the provenance of it. So unless they are satisfied that the information has been obtained legitimately, and that there are no issues of confidentiality, then we won’t see media comment. In addition, if documents come into one’s possession which expressly state that they are confidential and privileged, then it is very hard to see how legitimately they can be published.

That is qualified however by what the material is about. Should Wikileaks produce several million more pages of diplomatic documents, as with the revelations by Mr Snowden about internet monitoring etc, then there is no doubt that these would be publicised, despite them clearly being obtained illegally.

Leaks of government information will also still be published.

I suspect that media organisations and their lawyers are debating the legality of the information having been obtained and then the “public interest” in disclosure.

When it comes to Rangers, where lies the public interest?

Bizarrely the arguments of Rangers fans about the importance of their team, which has been dubbed “the second most important institution in Scotland” by some of them, make the “public interest” argument more compelling.

If we are dealing with solely a  commercial enterprise and boardroom machinations, that might be relevant to shareholders and investors, but is essentially a private matter.

However, should we be dealing with an “institution” which plays as important a role in Scottish society as some of its supporters claim, and as recognised by First Minister Alex Salmond, then clearly there is a “public interest”. (And of course the “public interest” is NOT the same as what the public is interested in.)

If there was, for example, clear and unequivocal evidence of criminality, then that would be open for publication, subject to the normal issues of defamation etc. However, from what I have seen of Charlotte’s documents (and I have not completed a detailed analysis for reasons mentioned in my post in May) whilst they would be very relevant evidence in the threatened court action by Craig Whyte against the Green consortium over Sevco, they do not disclose crime.

I am sure that there will be further developments and as soon as one media organisation puts its head over the parapet the rest will follow.

Posted by Paul McConville

 

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842 Comments

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842 responses to “Why Won’t the Media Mention “Charlotte Fakes” and Her Rangers Documents?

  1. mcfc

    @dan

    An interesting piece by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain – and based on the figures available and the general trends, his belief that RIFC are heading for insolvency has some merit – unless a line of credit (bank or sugar daddy) appears pdq or some big extra revenue is in the pipeline.

    But on the other hand I’m left wondering why a group of serious business people would tolerate such a situation – surely they must have a better plan than waiting for the money to run out. Is Mr Mather really expecting to be holding the parcel when the music stops. So what is it to be: benevolent bank, sugar daddy, revenue off the radar, EPL membership.

    It’s really is a puzzle – but in general I tend towards the prosaic rather than the dramatic – so my gut leans towards tough financial times – and a genuine possibility of insolvency.in the not too distant future.

    • Niall Walker

      @mcfc

      ” An interesting piece by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain – and based on the figures available and the general trends, his belief that RIFC are heading for insolvency has some merit ”

      Did I hear the words ” available figures ” ?

      I love accounts, show me the money,where is Phil’s crystal ball, is he a gypsy fortune teller by any chance ?

      Link please !!

      • If I put money on a horse I tend to look at the form, Mac Giolla Bhain’s form in this area is rather impressive. It should come as no surprise to most of us Niall that you will put your shirt on a donkey.
        Do you “love accounts” Niall?…..again no surprise, you probably love reading phone directories also………

        • Niall Walker

          Mac,

          I have no axe to grind against Phil, good on him for making a career, however can you summarize what you believe he got right ?

          I visited his site and there are no figures, it appears he just thinks they will run out of money, is he related to my new found friend mcfc ?

        • david

          If MacGiollabhain were a horse he would have been put down.
          Form unimpressive, character completely crazy
          Crazy Horse

      • mcfc

        @deNiall

        you and Mrs Walker must have such fun – do you do it by numbers – by your bed 2, 3, knickers down 2, 3

      • Raymilland

        @NW

        Cross My Palm With Silver

        7 June 2011:
        http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/rangers-strike-it-lucky-with-their-new-owner/

        A full year ahead of the pack on the Ticketus deal.

        No’ bad for a gypsy.

        • Niall Walker

          @Ray,

          ” He would then also be able to demand the first £18m from the sale of the club’s assets in administration.”

          He does seem to get the big details wrong, such is the nature of coin tossing guesswork.

          • Raymilland

            @NW

            Charles Green’s big ‘ands clouded Phil’s vision.

            Do you foresee any jail time for CW or others?

            Heads or tales; you toss 😉

          • Paul

            You mean like sending photographers down edminston drive to capture the moment the sheriff officers arrived and not a newspaper in site, mmmm.

  2. Mojo

    Niall,
    As you seem a very knowledgable fellow could you please give me the answer to a question that has baffled me for some time now. It is this, why didn’t Rangers try to recover the loans (46 million pounds)which were made via the EBT scheme to players and others? Surely this would have saved SDM from off loading the company to Craig White for 1pound.

    • Niall Walker

      @Mojo

      Maybe the Trust is a separate entity, and neither Rangers nor SDM had the authority to recover the ” loans “, you don’t really believe all this guff about ” loans ” do you ?

      SDM embarked on a high risk venture to finance glory, and it all ended in tears, the scale of the gamble highlights the reckless casino style culture that blighted the developed world for a decade. Rangers and SDM’s fall from grace is a warning to all, history is an open wound if it is filled with shame, and this is the final chapter that closes the book on any claims of superiority by the club and its fans.

      I can sort of understand why some want to grind the WATP cretins into dust but they are risking becoming the very thing they hate.

      People must understand, nothing done by SDM, CW, CG or Rangers compares to one single nutter (from either side) slashing or killing one innocent victim. The flames of sectarianism are burning brighter than ever and it is a national shame, we are going backwards to relive a backward history.

      • arb urns

        b. h………… i agree with this , mission complete, methil man reads poon at bedtime………. struth………..oh happy day……………………………………………

        cam cancel that holiday there’s a defector in the camp return to base immediately………..larkhall we have a problem !!

        • Niall Walker

          arb,

          I am simply repeating what I have said since I arrived, I like to repeat it to brighten up your life.

          • arb urns

            nope niall ..never had you in the poon camp before…was confident if you read it you would see the light though….congrats.. enjoy the season guess your orgasm would b if the ‘fife’ one div won with trfc to sneak up via the play offs…the extra gate money being sorely needed at ‘the orangery’, if they reach the seasons end… just how late are their financials going to be ?……………

    • barcabuster

      @Mojo.
      Rangers indemnified the loans, so in the event that the trust company who issued them, declared them toxic, Rangers would be paying back themselves, indirectly via MIH.
      It would be too much to expect that the true blue recipients, would dig into their swollen bank accounts and prevent toxicity.
      David Murray’s loan in itself repaid, would have made a significant dent. In fact it would have outbid Chicco in the liquidated asset sale.
      Still they can’t see it!

      • barca, I’ve often wondered. there,must be a few backsides out there making buttons at the thought of being pursued for the “indemnified loans”. but hold on a minute, I think they can breathe easy as they can rely on Meeja Scotland to avert their attention to other more worthy targets.
        Now if the nations hacks pursued the EBT fiasco recipients, with the same vigor they rightly gave to the MP’s expenses scandal, that would be interesting. Especially, as the EBT’s deprived the tax payer of significantly more revenue than our MP’s.

  3. Another disgraceful attack on Rangers is being planned!

    Then again, maybe not.

    http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/item/4378-traynor-grills-mccoist

    • portpower

      how he(sally) wants the new-look Light Blues to play an exciting, attacking brand of winning football that the fans of this great institution(IL) deserve.

      • gortnamona

        ” how he(sally) wants the new-look Light Blues to play an exciting, attacking brand of winning football that the fans of this great institution(IL) deserve.”

        haw haw haw as the wonka is wont to say!

    • barcabuster

      @Martin.
      I hope the script is leaked before it is aired.
      🙂

    • mcfc

      In a no holds barred, and sometimes heated sit-down at Murray Park, McCoist covers a variety of topics:
      he reveals his vision for the future of Rangers
      he outlines his tactical philosophy
      how he wants the new-look Light Blues to play an exciting, attacking brand of winning football that the fans of this great institution deserve
      how new fitness coach Jim Henry will drill the players for the campaign ahead and much, much more

      So that’s the first minute filled – now

      Punch it, Hurb
      Yo, I don’t think we should talk about this
      Come on, why not?
      People might misunderstand what we’re tryin’ to say, you know?
      No, but that’s a part of life)

      Come on

      Let’s talk about pies, baby
      Let’s talk about you and me
      Let’s talk about all the good things
      And the bad things that may be
      Let’s talk about pies
      Let’s talk about pies
      Let’s talk about pies
      Let’s talk about pies

      “Let’s Talk About Pies”, Salt ‘n’ Pepa

    • mcfc

      @martin

      If Ally is being grilled I could do with a few kilos of dripping to grease the runners of my sledge.

    • Traynor couldnae grill even with a George Forman the saddo

  4. barcabuster

    @Martin.
    I hope the script is leaked before it is aired.
    🙂

    • Barca,

      It will be fascinating to see which questions are asked and subsequently dealt with in 30 mins.

      “For around 30 minutes, Traynor grills McCoist on a variety of topics and asks the questions Rangers fans want answers to.”

      Not sure if Traynor has viewed Rangers fans forums to source his questions but having a look around some of them could if used be quite tricky.

      • mcfc

        @martin

        we have time for on more questions from the floor – yes – the gentleman in the orange shirt with the teeth.

        Ally, when Craig Whyte described you, on the record, well I mean on the tape, as f**king useless. Was he critiquing your “vision for the future of Rangers” or your “tactical philosophy”

      • barcabuster

        I hope Jabba asks Sally if he thinks he is worth £750K per annu
        And Sally replies, “How? Dye hink your wurrf a hunner ‘n forty?”

    • portpower

      1st question to sally. “sally, do the wheels on the bus go round and round?”

  5. ” Jim, Last season we always used a big numply at the back to simply hoof the ball up the park. In the new season that’s going to change, we’re giving him a Brazilian to make it look more – classy.”

  6. Mojo

    Thanks Niall for your answer. No I don’t believe all that loan guff .Hopefully the HMRC appeal will arrive at an honest verdict. You are right the loss of one innocent life is too much to pay for any ‘sporting’ glory. However I cannot see how Scottish football can move forward and prosper until the whole truth is acknowledged not only by Rangers but also by the SFA and all at Hampden , until then I will remain a dissilusioned and disgusted fan.

  7. barcabuster

    http://i.imgur.com/dLNnGYo.jpg.

    Charlottesville latest is truely jaw droppingly astonishing Are there no scruples down Ibrokes way? It beggers belief that they are allowed to play football, and when will the poor deluded souls on here waken up, and see the type of “institution they attempt to defend.

    • Barca,

      If genuine this looks like an ice cold joke from Bain to Murray.

    • Niall Walker

      @barca

      I read the note and my jaw did not drop, care to explain your astonishment ?

    • Ed Paisley

      Presumably Murray is about to pay Bain £150,000 from his personal bank account in order to dodge 40% income tax and 12.8% employer NIC.

      But Murray asks for a wee letter from Martin that will protect him in the event that the payment is discovered by HMR&C “I am responsible for taxes and nic..”

      The letter is ridiculous. Murray giving the Chief Executive of his company Rangers FC a gift? What is the gift for – being an ass-licking c¤nt – having a Baldy heid?

      That letter is surely a fake or a joke between two smug assholes.

      • Stevie

        Or it could just be genuine..is that totally outwith the realms of possibility?
        Of course not..because SDM being “responsible for taxes and nic”…does that not throw the obsessed’s tactics a wee curveball? Go HMRC chase Big Minty and let us get on with getting back to the top and gubbing the Celtic all over again…On the pitch!.

        • barcabuster

          @Stevie
          In this instance, why would Hector chase Minty?
          Your desperation to blame other people, and deflect from the tribute act is shining through.
          Martin Bains signature has absolved Minty of responsibility.
          Minty, as your head honcho, and chief buyer of hooky titles, is not daft.
          Anyway. It matters not. He acted on behalf of the deid club. FFS! We woz victims m’lud.!
          Change the tune. To claim that, is to claim to be in possession of stolen goods!

          • Stevie

            Barca – who should HMRC go after? Ticketus are going after individuals. Why not HMRC? Ah yes because there’s an appeal pending isn’t there? Setting aside for a moment the wishes of the obsessed hordes the more likely outcome is that HMRC will lose again. Why are they going after a company in the throes of liquidation who have since been bought over by new owners who have no responsibility for the oldco debt? Is it merely to prove a point?
            If that document is genuine which i doubt..as Niall has already explained. So what is the intention of Cha.F.? I don’t get where you think i’m deflecting away from anything.
            So tell us then Barca who do you think HMRC should pursue? You are aware that Big Minty was the main man? You are aware that MIH implemented,managed and did the accountancy work for the EBT’s? Are you suggesting they did this without Minty’s knowledge? But of course we know this is all smokescreen Barca, nothing to do with individuals who perpetrated the crimes is it? It was all Rangers Football Club you know the club that existed before Big Minty and his band of merry men arrived. Aye very good! Willy’s right you have lost the plot.

            • barcabuster

              @Stevie.
              Hector is trying to prove a point, yes! A point worth more to him than anything he will ever gain from Rangers or individuals. For that very reason he will persist.
              If as you say, it does not affect newco, what are you worried about? Let them get on with it!
              Let the washing machine tumble, and see what is left to hang on the line.
              Perhaps if you let me know why you are so worried about this pointless appeal, then I could allay your fears.
              I am aware of all of the thing’s you mentioned. Are you aware of who benefitted(recipients aside) from the benefit scheme?
              I am!! Does that mean I have lost the plot….or not been deflected?
              If it is decided in favour of Hector and the upshot is that illegal payments were made, and the people responsible held to account, or even admonished and exonerated, surely either way, you will be pleased.

            • Stevie

              @Barca.
              “Surely either way you will be pleased” -???

              Do you just make this stuff up as you go?

              You are obviously struggling badly mate. I suggest doing what a rat does when caught in a trap.Chew your foot off and limp away to lick your wounds.

              My position has been consistent from the outset. I’ve made it clear who i blame, hold responsible, and what i want to happen this is reflected in my posts. All of which render your deflective argument invalid.
              Your bigoted hatred of a football club i find intriguing
              A call for it’s total extinction i find bizzarre yet compelling.
              All those years of hurt on the pitch all coming home to roost eh?
              What a sad little specimen you are now portraying yourself as.
              Yep. Always cheated…Except you were not… Never defeated. Err well..that’s obvious, and recorded for posterity as well.
              Toodle – Pip!

            • Yes, it is all Big Minty’s fault, you want to erase Big Minty and his band of merry men and associated history ?
              AND the titles/trophy’s he bought/stole with ebt money ?

    • Niall Walker

      Something not quite right about this letter, on one hand it infers a personal gift from SDM’s account which has no tax liability and on the other it mentions a tax liability which infers the gift came from a company account. A company cannot just gift money to anyone without incurring some form of tax, in effect the letter stating it is a personal gift is pointless and meaningless if it came from a company account, and if it came from SDM personally then I fail to see the point of the letter.

      It is a very amateurish fake.

      • Stevie

        @Niall.
        I share the dubiety who really knows whether it’s genuine or an “amateurish fake” If it’s fake then this would cast a shadow over the entire Cha.F campaign. The puzzle is that Cha.F has supposedly(ahem} acquired the former domain of a CW account. Why would this information be on it? Look at the timeline 2009? This does not promote the Cha.F material in a positive manner at all. I wonder why he/she published it?

        • willy wonka

          Really, who gives a monkeys ? Murray and Bain, a couple of wasters who led the company now known as oldco Rangers sent , or didn’t send an email.
          Has anybody looked at when it happened ? That business is now gone.
          Is that it ? Is that what Charlotte has to offer ?

          • Raymilland

            @willy wonka

            “That business is now gone”

            I think you’ll find that several agencies, BDO, HMRC, the Insolvency Service and fraud squad detectives, are continuing to investigate the above business.

            The business to which you refer is in concern of a certain football club; I think you will also find that any club that continues to play at home at Ibrox shall ‘bear’ responsibility of the actions of the relevant custodians.

  8. SairFecht

    …recoup the loans to pay off the debt…what a great idea…if only someone had thought of this it could have circumvented the whole evil cabal conspiracy to destroy rangers and wrench Scotland away from the glorious monarchial constitution to become annexed to the Irish Republic and Vatican State…Rangers would still have been invincible, a social and cultural force holding the fabric of nationhood together…why didn’t we do it, why didn’t we recoup the loans…paid the tax, paid our debts…it could all have been so different…

    • willy wonka

      SF – the loans remain exactly that , “loans”.
      When they should be repaid is a matter for the trust fund which was and is operated by a Murray company. Any money recouped at any point in the future would/will go to Murray. Not to Rangers.

      • Stevie

        Facts WW. You know they don’t like facts,come on play fair. Facts only cloud their pipedreams and dilute the probability of our impending doom. You’re such a party pooper.

        • barcabuster

          @Stevie.
          You don’t quite get it. Do you?
          It is your party that has been pooped. It’s over mate. The record player is smashed, the hosts parents are on the way back from the airport. and David Murray has run away with the Kerry-oot money that you all chipped in for.
          Still, if you try really hard and shut your eyes,you can kid on there is carpet in your bus shelter as you huddle around the the wee tinny sound from somebody’s pay as you go.
          That bus ticket tifo looks spectacular bud. Good effort.! Melting holes in the perspex really adds to the overall effect. Lol. 

          • Stevie

            I’m always the last to leave a party Barca.
            Also the record player being smashed is irrelevant as i’ve got my beat’s on and you’ll always find me in the kitchen at parties rustling something up for the guests. Now to your latest prediction of impending doom. Have you been basking in Ten nom de plumes bumph again? The man is a deluded bigoted fool who thinks he’s driving the bus. I usually sit at the back and start the sing songs. My favourite is the front of the bus cannae sing. Haud on that’s ma stop, ah better get aff,don’t want to keep going roon in circles all night.

            • barcabuster

              @Stevie.
              Last to leave a party. Is that because you are last to be invited.?
              I don’t read Phil’s blog so why mention it? Are you obsessed?
              You ARE going round in circles mate. It was Murray who did it, It was PL who did it. It was Craigy who did it, it was Celtic who did it, It was Chicco, Naw, it was the BBC, Naw it was Hector, Naw it was Arty C , Naw it was Phil, ………Wrong on all counts. It was RFCLUB. who are awaiting liquidation for their actions.
              But you are getting warmer and at least blaming the right people now. Acceptance will be next.

          • willy wonka

            Barca – you really are losing it. Aren’t you ? I honestly credited you with more nous than you just posted there.
            I suppose , much like the road Ray’s gone down you’ll simply become another Mick or Monti.
            I find that just a wee bit sad. Who will I talk to now ?

            • Stevie

              Don’t despair Willy. There’s always MCFC. He’s good for a wee blether,ask Niall they two have really hit it off.

            • barcabuster

              @Willy.
              It is quite hard to dress things up in such a fashion that your “wee echo” Stevie can understand.
              Does he sit at the back of your bus, waiting for you to tell him which song to sing?
              Answer me this Willy. Sevconians have blamed everybody, PL, the Sellick minded, the press, haters etc. Now it is slowly turning to the correct place, The custodians of RFCLUB, and RIFC. But at which point was it decide that “They” were not “US”? I only ask because it liooks to me, that they enjoyed over-whelming support, while they acted in the interests of your team(s).
              Is there a definitive date you can put on it?
              When did you finally catch-up with what the fitba’ community were telling you for ages. Long before we became haters.haters, haters. haters haters.. See what I did there. Lol. Bet you thought that was an echo!

          • willy wonka

            barca- you were saying all that over a year ago. We’ve heard it. You had your laugh but it’s become very boring now.
            Why not, instead of going over old news or commenting on fakes old news tell us the next “nuclear news”.
            Come on. There must be SOMETHING new.
            Lol.

            • Stevie

              You don’t have to dress anything up ffor me Barca. I’m quite capable of understanding plain English. It’s the bigoted Republican gaelic tosh i tend to struggle with. Cannae find a dictionary anywhere.
              Perhaps you would consider puting me straight on a few things. It would be greatly appreciated.
              When is the latest episode of armageddon scheduled to hit our screens?
              On which authority/evidence do you base your misguided pipedreams on?
              You appear to be furiously back peddling with your p*ss poor attempt at redemption following your outlandish outburst last night.
              I am a considerate man and can appreciate that events may not be progressing quickly enough for you, therefore i can understand your festering frustration.
              The rope of hope appears to be tightening around TGEF,s neck,and hopefully will entangle Mr Murray and others at a later date.
              One other thing while i’m in a studious mood.
              Perhaps you can explain why (in simple terms) why Celtic fans have adopted TGEF/Agent Whyte as a hero?
              I must admit to being stumped by that one. After all was e nothing other than a patsy?
              The race is on. I’m betting against wee shorty.Are you forecasting an upturn in CF’s game now that the net appears to be closing in on RFC’s arch nemesis.?
              Perhaps you have lowered your standards Barca,i haven’t known you as long as the others on here,but i have considered that from time to time you do appear to be content with wallowing in the emanating chords of the sectarian Banjo twanger as they reverbarate across the sea,lapping ever so gently around your homesick lugholes. Just occasionally, when your mask slips,such as the other evening.

            • Raymilland

              @willy wonka

              “barca- you were saying all that over a year ago. We’ve heard it. You had your laugh but it’s become very boring now.”

              Willy you should not be fooled by the fact that TRFC is currently enjoying the ‘journey’ from the bottom tier in Scottish football. That journey may be brought to an abrupt halt once the relevant agencies conclude their investigations of the shenanigans of your club.

              You are welcome to delude yourself that everything shall be fine.

              I would not expect anything printed on this blog to alter your state of bewilderment.

            • barcabuster

              @Stevie.
              I never predicted Armageddon. That particular bias that you accuse me of came from the other side of the bias divide.
              I am disappointed to hear you think I wear a mask. I don’t,.
              I have an interest in Scottish fitba’ That is it! Celtic is my favoured team. My brother’s favoured team is/was Rangers. We attended Scotland games together, but I will not return to that until the SFA are removed, or at least replaced.
              I consider that Rangers were involved in institutionalised corruption on a massive scale. Both corporate and within the game. They deserve, and as far as I am concerned receive the ultimate sanction. Extinction!
              Corporate law seen to that! I want football law to further endorse that action, as it was not just Hector and the creditors who got stiffed. It was followers of the game.
              Rangers supporters too! I feel sorry that you that decent Rangers supporters have lost their club.but I refuse to accept in any shape or form it is the same club. If you wish to claim it is the same club, then you must accept what it has been responsible for.
              You are happy enough to claim the accolades it won.
              Football is a simple game, Im a simple man. I do not need lawyers, inquiries, or dodgy attained verdicts to tell me I am toooo simple to see what went on, and is going on.
              No amount of loop holes will convince me otherwise. A full, and truely independant investigation into all of Scottish fitba’ is needed. Possibly I have an overly romantic vision for the game, But it is the love affair I have with it, and the joy and sorrow it brings that attracts me.
              If that is bias, fine, but it is not a mask.

            • Stevie

              Nope!..Not buying it Barca.
              Not only has your mask slipped roon yer Kankles your delusion knows no bounds. Methinks your getting your bloggers in a twist.
              It’ll just be the excitement. It appears something has made your blood pressure go up a wee notch. You need to be careful with that.
              No real need for it especially over a football club. After all it is only a game.
              Calm down soft lad.

            • barcabuster

              @Stevie.
              Not buying it? Why is that mate.?
              Does your argument fall when you don’t have the accusation of “Declan” to throw around…. Your not buying it, So that means I am just a bigot in disguise.
              Aye, I can see the consistency in your argument. But where is your argument when you don’t have a Declan to blame.?
              Enjoy your mushrooms bud. Theyre magic!

            • Stevie

              Barca,
              What are you rabbiting on about now?
              You are the only person who has brought former Irish King’s or Saint’s into the discussion.
              You are the uncool King of Deflection.
              However your bigoted face protector has now slipped to an all time low.Perched directly atop your your martyr sandals, you now have the appearance of the most vertically challenged Declan in history.
              Your views are being increasingly muffled on a daily basis due to your foot being firmly entrenched in your mouth.
              I now have this vision of a a mask with sandals on hopping around waving a Tri-colour and humming “The fields of Athenrye”

        • Stevie,

          If I were a Rangers supporter I would not be defending Minty’s tax position or EBT “Loans”., I would be crapping myself about the actions of the Spivs in the Blue Room.

          The same Cavalier attitude to money is going to lead to another Financial disaster at Ibrox.

          We are debating crap from the Original Rangers, RFC(IL), Assets sold & a little help from from friends to allow Sevco to morph into the “Same Rangers”, remember that junk?

          When are Rules broken not an offence?… when RFC don’t obtain a Sporting Advantage, in a dignified way of course. Talk about Fiddling while things go up in flames.

          We are now in a period where TRFC have overheads which outstrip their income, Key Personnel removed & not replaced, £1m cut in the maintainance budget of an aging stadium, reports that the £22m raised has shrunk to £7/£8m. & the assets are now owned by RIFC & excessive salaries are still being paid on & off the field of play..

          Who actually owns the assets? who will be responsible for the debts?

          The difference this time is that TRFC is Definitely NOT RIFC & the Company Holding the assets is NOT the Club. It would appear that the Club owes the Parent company which keeps the debt “Internal”.

          I wonder what Campbell & his crew will come up with this time…. For the good of Scottish Football of course.

          I now solemnly promise NOT to push for TRFC to lose their 3rd Division Title.

          • Stevie

            Ian.
            I wholeheartedly deny ever having attempted to defend David Murray.
            You must have taken something i said out of context.

          • willy wonka

            @ Ian – much like barca, I’m afraid your credibility is heading south.
            I haven’t seen anybody on this forum defending “Murrays tax position”. There are some who said that the figures were produced in the annual accounts. That EBT’s were regarded as legal for ten years. That the “moral” position of the transactions were or were not, well moral.
            “The spivs in the Blue Room” ? Who are they exactly ?
            “The cavalier attitude to money” ? Seeing as how you and your kind seem to be relying on internet rubbish from fakes about stuff that happened over a year ago at best or garbage from Phil ten-names or whatever he’s called this week, what do YOU know about Rangers finances as they stand today ?
            “We are debating crap from the Original Rangers, RFC(IL)” ? You’ve already made it perfectly plain where your thoughts on that line lay. The business and the club are the same thing.
            ” a little help from from friends to allow Sevco to morph into the “Same Rangers” ? We;re back to the mindset of the average yahoo. It’s a conspiracy !
            “When are Rules broken not an offence?… when RFC don’t obtain a Sporting Advantage” ? Rangers were found guilty of “offences” They were punished for it. No sporting advantage however was gained by Rangers committing said offences. We already know your thoughts on that one and have filed it in the drawer marked ” The great conspiracy/why sellik are still the second club in Glasgow”
            ” TRFC have overheads which outstrip their income,” ? Again, how do you know that ? Evidence ?
            “Key Personnel removed & not replaced” ? Who are you referring to ? The plumber and the electrician who’s jobs are now covered by a sub-contracting company ?
            “£1m cut in the maintainance budget of an aging stadium” ? Source ?
            “reports that the £22m raised has shrunk to £7/£8m” ? “Reports” by who ? Mad phil ten-names ? Brennan ? One of the other head-cases ? “excessive salaries are still being paid on & off the field of play..” ? What’s that to you Ian ? Do you think your “spivs in the boardroom” will allow their investment to disappear through paying Lee McCulloch too much ?
            “who will be responsible for the debts” ? What “debts” ? the accounts aren’t due until August but somehow, without any financial details you can say Rangers have debts ?
            Can you see where I’m going with this Ian ? You know NOTHING. You have a bunch of twisted thoughts and theories that , like the rest of them, you’ve spun into a wee fantasy that you just HOPE is going to come true.

            • tom

              ok, how came sally’s sallyree is almost double that of nfl?, fffs division 4 manager with a spending jones!!!!

            • Wow willy, did I touch a nerve?.

              Stadium Manager gone, reports yesterday of ONE MILLION cut back in maintainance & £7/8m left,, Fat Sally & his Coaching staff salary levels the complaints of the new shareholder about, the vastly overpaid CEO & Financial Director, the reported monthly shortfall etc,etc,etc.,did I make it all up?.,

            • Raymilland

              @willy wonka

              “you’ve spun into a wee fantasy that you just HOPE is going to come true.”

              Your confidence in TRFC is betrayed by your constant mantra of oldco/newco. I would guess that most guys on this site would expect TRFC to go belly up through default of their own making or that of oldco.

              The real reason you come here is to try and identify the certain pitfalls that lie ahead for TRFC; and then fathom a way around them which suits your reasoning.

              Yes, TRFC is at this moment alive and kicking; although you oversimplify the problems by refusing to recognise that the liquidation process has serious implication for newco (and the club).

              BDO shall only arrive at a conclusion once all the facts are available. The courts shall determine any criminal action in addition to the many financial disputes; many of which shall impact directly upon the liquidation of RFC and the legitimacy of the continuation of newco (and the club).

              It should come as no surprise if that TRFC do not last the ‘journey’; we can but HOPE one way or the other.

      • barcabuster

        @Willy
        Is that the Murray mint?
        He really took a lend of your lot mate Then along came wee Craigy, He really took a lend of you lot mate. Then along came Chicco, He really took a lend of you lot mate. Then Craigy and Chicco had such a good time, they formed a wee double act, To really take a lend out of you lot mate. There is a whole lot of lending going on down Ibrokes way. Any chance of a wee sub mate? 🙂

      • gortnamona

        ” Any money recouped at any point in the future”

        HAW HAW HAW

  9. Mojo

    @Willy Wonka

    So Rangers paid into a Murray company 46 million which in turn paid into a trust fund and at the end of the day returns the 46 million to the Murray company but never reaches Rangers. Good deal for Murray .

    • Ed Paisley

      Can any of you sharp brains out there help me with a puzzler – Cam, you are excused from this bit, you can go and melt crayons on the radiators.

      Say the EBT Trust or Sub-Trusts call in all of the loans. All of these “borrowers” have side letters which say “..In the event that the Trust demands repayment of these loans, MIH/Rangers shall indemnify you against repayment”.

      So the players are forced to write their cheques to the Trust. Presumably the money would then be returned to MIH. Then MIH refunds that money directly to the players. HMRC views this as merely deferred remuneration and MIH have to withold 40% tax and pay 13.8% employer NIC. Unfortunately, MIH can’t pass this cost on to Rangers because they were liquidated.

      In the public interest, surely the trustees of the EBT scheme should be calling in the loans toute-de-suite? The public purse will benefit from tax and nic. The nic comes from MIH. The tax comes from the millionaire footballers and Murray.

      What are the trustees waiting for? Here’s a start for you:-
      Murray £5m
      Bazza £2.5m
      Klos £2m
      Novo £1.2m
      Lovenkrands £0.9m
      Etc
      Etc
      Boydy £0.22m

      • Stevie

        See you do typos too Ed? Funny thing though, i don’t remember ETO playing for us. Twice?

        • Ed Paisley

          Stevie
          I’m using a crap tablet my wife got me from Asda – the touchscreen is awful.
          No your right, Samuel Eto’o was never at Rangers.
          Samuel Eto’o is now in some football backwater with nasty racist supporters – but he is getting £18m a year to soothe the discomfort.

          I remember Stefan Klos back in 1989 was playing his football in some football backwater with nasty racist and bigoted supporters – but he got £4.5m a year plus tax free money from a dodgy EBT to soothe the discomfort.

      • cam

        Ted its not working!,,,do i have to turn them on?
        Say the cooncil call in those dodgy land deals and Co-op fancy getting the mortgages back.

        • Cam,

          Are there any scheduled Mortgage repayments not being met by Celtic?

          That is called Debt Management., I know it’s an unknown concept down Ibrox way, but it works.

          It looks like Celtic will be selling a couple of players at a very good profit level while TRFC paid their best two to go away, all while Sally brings more Freebies in.

          Mind you he has been told to sell some of his Title Winning Stars before he recruits any more.

          this will be a laugh, you could not shift that lot of Caber Tossers in a Raffle.I can just picture Fat Sally handing Black a tin of Dulux & a brush to go with his informal PR hint.,

          PS don’t melt the crayons, you will need them for your Vatican reports…Hints of a Polish saint & it ain’t The Holy Goalie….Dariusz Dziekanowski maybe? naw Big Jacki was more a sinner than a saint.

    • willy wonka

      Mojo – tell me you’re not really that thick , will you ?
      Rangers didn’t pay anything into it.
      Do you forget that Murray owned Rangers and MIH, the vehicle through which the trust fund was set up ?
      Ffs , at least make half an attempt at something sensible,

      • Fra

        @Willy…Pray tell Willy. How much debt had MIH (Murrays main cash cow to the toxic club). The whole operation was shuffling numbers and he thought it couldn’t end. He used rangers as a vehicle to lift his profile in the business world. He was reckless with other people’s jobs and therefore their lives and I don’t mean the overpaid prima donnas. He had a duty of care to ALL employees and he failed miserably.

        Off the top of my head, the figure was in the region of £800 million. When Masterton and his Masonic cronies bank rolled this runaway juggernaut of debt, the garden was rosy. All hail the never ending pit of dosh that Murray liked to associate himself with. It will all turn good but what happened. It turned to shit under nobody’s watch but Murrays.

        When true businessmen grabbed it by the bollocks and squeezed, the game was up. So please admit that the downfall was the sole remit of Murray and had very little to do with Whyte. He was never anything but a Patsy and the only reason for withholding tax and NI contributions was to try and keep your old club afloat.

        You should erect a statue to Mr Whyte outside Ibrox because I believe hundreds of thousands from all across the land would come to see it. You could even have a little well surrounding the statue and we could throw pennies into this well and make wishes.

        Mr Whyte, you have done the Scottish people a service. We salute you.

        • willy wonka

          Fra – are you another one who reads something, lets it rattle around his head until it’s mixed up and then replies ?
          Your asking the wrong person if you’re looking for somebody to defend Murray or anything he did.
          I’ve stated that at least half a dozen times now.
          Pay attention.

  10. Mojo

    @willy Wonka,

    If you mean I don’t understand the intricacies of high finance as practised by SDM then you are right I am thick. It is just that SDM was at pains to declare that there was no secrecy as far as the EBT scheme was concerned and all the contributions paid in for the benefit of players and staff were in the club’s balance sheet. If you are saying that the contributions came from outwith Ibrox ,then I have never heard this mentioned before. I have much to learn.

  11. Geddy Lee.

    With “the rangers” not bothering to screen any of their up and coming matches on Gers TV(STILL advertising Tennants LOL ), footy fans can tune into Celtic TV to see live coverage of Celtic’s 4 games being played in GERMANY.

    First up is the Ukranians of Sebastapol. Kick Off TONIGHT at 6pm. Incidentaly, at least 2 of the matches are also being shown live on German TV. This will be follow followed by 2 tough matches against Liverpool in Dublin and Munchen Gladbach at Paradise.

    Strange, I thought “the rangers” would want to showcase to the world, Swally’s new found tactics and “football phylosophy”.

  12. KnowTheStruth

    I used to like this site but now you’s are all talking posh with all the arguing. Steve, barca get a grip…… And as for DeNiall… Well

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