The SPL, earlier this week, issued a statement regarding Hearts.
Following Heart of Midlothian plc lodging a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator with the Court of Session in Edinburgh on 17 June 2013, the SPL confirmed that a number of sporting sanctions have been applied to the club.
An SPL spokesperson said: “As Heart of Midlothian is subject to an Insolvency Event, a 15 point deduction will be applied to its total points in the League Championship for next Season 2013/14. In addition, Heart of Midlothian is subject to an embargo on Registering Players with the SPL whilst in administration.”
There are a couple of thoughts about this.
First of all, how does the change at some point before next season from the SPL to the SPFL affect this? If the 15 point penalty which is based on 1/3 of the points gained in the preceding season is an SPL rule (as it is) how does this carry across to the SPFL?
Secondly, an embargo on registering players with the SPL might only be effective for a couple of weeks, depending on when the SPFL officially comes into being.
Will Hearts have a say in approving the new SPFL rulebook, especially on the areas under which the SPL has penalised them?
At any meeting of the SPFL to approve the new rules, does Mr Jackson, administrator of Hearts, turn up with a Hearts strip and with a Dunfermline shirt too, so that everyone else knows which team he is representing at any point?
And could Dundee seek to challenge the SPL decision not to penalise Hearts for an “Insolvency Event” prior to the end of the season? After all, if administration had taken place before the season ended, Dundee would be in the SPL (or the Premier SPFL division) and Hearts would have been relegated.
“Sporting Integrity” was a phrase regularly used in connection with the Rangers fiasco. On one view, sporting integrity would demand that Hearts be penalised to the benefit of Dundee. Why?
Hearts have gained an advantage by not paying debts and by continuing to pay players it could not afford – as is seen by the administrators taking the decision to dispense with employees including players and for at least two players to volunteer for a pay cut. The regular failure to pay players’ wages was a sign that this was an issue.
It is therefore a clear and logical argument that Hearts stayed in the SPL as a result of their financial “wrongdoing”. If the team is still allowed to play in the top division next season, then it has benefited from its “crime” (of course the conduct is not criminal – I use it to indicate a rule breach).
Teams in the top division will receive significantly larger sums than teams lower down.
Why should the new owners of Hearts (if they are indeed sold) benefit from the elimination of debt and the high income from the top division?
Why should Dundee have to accept the lower rewards of the second tier when perhaps a financial splurge and a delayed administration could have kept them in the top league?
Some years ago the company which owned Leeds United went into administration right at the end of a season, having already been relegated. The plan was to have the points penalty imposed in the current season, and thus start the next season in the lower division with a clean slate.
However the English Football League saw through that, and imposed the penalty for the coming season anyway.
There would be something to be said for the new SPFL announcing that the rules are different from those of the SPL and SFL, and that administration prior to the start of a season means that the penalty is applied retrospectively WHERE THAT WOULD AFFECT PROMOTION AND RELEGATION.
In that case Dundee would be still in the top league, and maybe John Brown could be awarded a retrospective Manager of the Year Award!
Posted by Paul McConville
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
No,goodnight!
It wasn’t the company that owned Leeds Utd that went into administration – it was Leeds Utd.
Utter shite. Try looking up the records at Companies House as to what exactly went into administration before spouting your garbage.
Marching On Tmazipan! Welcome back. How’s your new club? Have you linked up with old Rangers in DeidClubsReunited.com yet? You’ll have new members joining you soon lol.
Marching on tramodol & PCP
Could you refrain from using that kind of language on here please, it is completely offensive & unwelcome.
🙂
Morning Monti. Give me joy in my heart give me Lennon, give me joy…
Morning mate, working on a Saturday is no good tho!
Still, got to take Lizzie’s coin to have a decent life…OH & PAY HER TAXES!!!!
Wonder if the creditors have received a penny yet?
Same club n’ that….lol!
Which is rich coming from the most offensive bigot and kiddie murderer on this site.
Wonder whether alleged Hearts supporter Violet will make any comment on this thread? If (s)he does will it have anything to do with Hearts?
Hearts lie with the fishes lol.
I’ve no problem with a sanction of relegation automatically following an insolvency event, but there is a certain irony in it being Dundee who would benefit from Hearts relegation.
Had a relegation sanction been applied to Dundee following their last insolvency event in season 2010/11, then they would have been in SFL Div 2 in 2011/12 and, at best, promoted to SFL Div 1 for 2012/13, rather than becoming “Club 12” in the SPL last season.
If the sfa fixed it for sevco to stay in the spl but there plan was scubbled by a club vote surely hearts if liquidated should go to a chairmen vote of spl clubs hearts have not cheated and there fans have shown dignity to so for these reasons they should be allowed to stay we’re they are also it would add appeal to new buyers Scottish fans have no axe to grind with hearts they only spent big to keep up with deadcos financial doping and should be seen as a victim of oldco cheating . the Edinburgh Darby and Celtic hearts match would be to big a losse to the spl no 1 wants hearts punished and div1 could be fatal buyer wise .also why can rules be bent for sevco but not hearts???
A forgot to Dundee were not up to the challenge so for them to appear in spl agian would only see them relegated so what’s the use
“hearts have not cheated and there fans have shown dignity to so for these reasons they should be allowed to stay we’re they are. Scottish fans have no axe to grind with hearts”
You forgot to add that you were not really in debt as you owed it all to yourselves.
I would have considered Dunfernlime should have stayed up when rangers went into freefall, dundee cannot have it all their own way.
The common denominator between Hearts and Rangers RIP is Campbell Ogilvie so he should be removed from whatever post he currently holds…oooops, he is President of the SFA! just awarded an annual pay rise which in itself is higher than the average salary of most football supporters of both clubs….can anyone say what Mr Ogilvie does at the SFA to enjoy such largesse? Or is it husn money to keep him from spilling the beans?
He shreds evidence……
Campbell Ogilvie, the Anti-Midas. The only man with a worse business record than Craig Whyte
Don’t know about that Doc, David Murray runs him close….
🙂
FAIL !
“An annual pay rise”.
You read the Record I take it ?
Haw haw haw.
First Rangers. Now Hearts. Jingle bell jingle bell jingle bell rock, jingle bell roll, jingle bell swing and jingle bells ring…
John hearts backed the say no to sevco and were vocal in condemning oldco so for that reason we should all back there survival They haven’t cheated any1 and are a victim of oldco
I wouldn’t cut Dundee FC any breaks – they have been in administration twice in recent years and besides, my hero Bob Servant is a United fan.
SPORTING INTEGRITY IS PARAMOUNT MICK. 🙂
🙂 yes but that was with sevco ,dont forget hearts put there full weight behind the bampots last year and were in the top 3 group saying no to sevco along with us and utd they were shocked at the cheating so for backing us am backing hearts to stay in spl lol they were good with rtc and phil as well so we should all back them in there current situ fairs fair
Mick
Romanov was against celtic and Rangers, hearts deserve the same application of rules as sevco or anyone else.
If they are liquidated before the start of season, Morton will be promoted.
As that is how Dundee got up last year,
Mick at the end of your working week, do you get forced to wear a safety helmet and leathered with a scaffy pole?
It would help to make sense of how your brain operates.
You display the mental processes of someone who falls from great heights.
cam.
You display the mental processes of someone who falls from great heights’
Do you mean, just like Mr Mc Coist cam ?
That made me laugh ….. A lot
Testing testing 123 ..
Flats Flats Glorious Flats. 🙂
2011: “Bring on the Hearts, the Hibs and Rangers”
2012: “Bring on the Hearts and Hibs”
2013: “Bring on the Hibs”
Now Now folks we shouldn’t laugh at Hearts & the the rangers…..AHAHAHAHAHA 😀
Hearts situation is very different from Rangers. Hearts are in financial difficulties, but that is the only accusation that can be levelled at them.
They have not illegally registered players, or been systematic in their abuse of the rulebook. No charges of second only to match fixing darken their horizon. No unsavoury signing policies and there has been no need for special branch involvement or 24 hr police protection required for any decision makers.
They have kept their heads down and got on with what they need to do, without threats or nasty postmen. And accepted they are in the Brown stuff, without blame or rabble rousing.
The administration process has just begun, and they have made no attempts to sign anybody. Quite the opposite, as you would expect.
What is there to compare.?
I hope they prove to be a shining light in how to behave throughout their difficulties, and wish them a successful CVA, and that they can rebuild, and return to the fray.
Unlike Sevco. I would say Scottish fitba’ DOES need Hearts.
Absolutely Barca,quality post mate! HH!
Thank you Barcabuster, you, easyJambo and others continue to offer level headed insight.
” and wish them a successful cva “….. so that they can maintain an unbroken history and not reform as THE heart of midlothian or THE middle of midlothian…………..
Jam today but no Jam tomorrow lol.
Barca, fantastic post delineating the (considerable)differences between the Jambos and Oldco. It’s like trying to compare the measles and the Black Death. I hope the Jambos are still with us next season.
what can we do us bampots should we organize and start a campaign to keep them in the spl they still have a good squad the 15 point thing will see them finish 2nd 3rd 4 th its not a lot of points to make up throw season there is a cash flow starting from today via bdo plea so there is hope and backers are about to make bids to ??
@Mick.
TBH not a lot. Only the Hearts supporters can help. It will not be a one season “fix”,
They need to hit their average SB sales or exceed it, and they will need to do it sharpish. I think a buyer may be found if they show that the backing of the support is there. A backing that can be sustained and give a potential buyer some solid figures to work with.
They were not in admin last season, although it was a close call. In that respect the points deduction, to date, is allthey are due.
With regards to playing unaffordable players, Rangers did it for years with no sanctions.
C’Mon Jambos, back yir team and get those SB’s shifted. Make your team a viable option!
And best of luck.
Well said barca last year hearts done good work helping the bampots they need to shift 3000 more season tickets they have already sold 10000 befor admin so it’s not impossible and well within there reach all we can do is wish them luck as you say buy a mate st should save them
Best of Luck to hearts,are you having a laugh. I hope they are liquidated like their cousins. Our manager is attacked at their stadium,it is probably the most poisonous atmosphere outside of Ibrox that celtic fans have to endure,and you want to wish them well. They should have been in administration at the end of last season but manipulated the rules,what’s the difference. Let them die along with their cousins.
Good god Jimmy,,,you’re in a bad mood! Did one of the grand weans nutmeg you?
What about a poor referee being assaulted at Parkhead Jimmy,now that was a poisonous atmosphere.
Dundee Utd are next along with Killie.
I realise that Celtic don’t care how they win things, but its getting a bit silly now.
Tainted?
Bad mood cam, had the pride of Midlothian flute band pass by with their flutes and drums,and the dedicated followers of bigotry,does bring out the worst in you.Great day oot for the weans though,glad mine are at the caravan not to witness such a carnival atmosphere.
But still hearts ave cheated the system I have to agree with bomber brown on this.
JimmyB. I note you have included a reference to a section of one of my earlier posts.
Just for the record. I am not,nor ever have been affiliatedd to any organisation outwith the Boy’s Brigade . My post merely pointed out that where i grew up both sides paraded for over thirty years. There was never any trouble. That should be self evident that neither of them were ever banned.
You appear to be directing a certain amount of angst in my direction,which is fine. However where your holier than thou breeches fall down aound your ankles is reflected in your inexclicable support for the more bigoted posts on here from your friends.
If you wish to preach morality at others you should adopt a stance based on your own morals, beliefs and social conscience,and remain faithful to them. What is demeaning to you and your attempt to rebuke others,is when you take your eye off the ball and your mask slips. You have been outed my friend.
Good man Jimmy,,when they go by try to imagine the lambeg guy in sussies and a curly wig,,,it will help your blood pressure.
cam.
Dundee Utd are next along with Killie’
Couldn’t agree more !! Dock them both 15pts !! Right that’s Hearts,Killie and Dun Utd sorted . A few more folding and then we challenge Celtic for top spot – and we’ve shown we can thrash them when we put our minds to it.
Well, apart from that 5-0 when we were just warming up.
Bud
You’re now displaying a cruel streak that i’ve never seen before,,,it must be the sun and the moon’s close approach.
cam.
Bud
You’re now displaying a cruel streak that i’ve never seen before,,,it must be the sun and the moon’s close approach.’
Yep, I’ve noticed that myself funnily enough. As the moon gets closer I’m hoping that The Sea of Tranquility will calm me doon – unless of course it’s a blue moon ! I’ve even started to ‘ pluralise my hatreds ‘ eg. I ‘ beat about the bush ‘ in the full knowledge that a genus of bushes in no way reflects the actions of a particular bush – I also find myself demonising Satanists because of the actions of Satan – —– I know it’s wrong , and I’m just off to read some PG Wodehouse to try to affect a cure – wish me luck!
” the most poisonous atmosphere outside of Ibrox that celtic fans have to endure”
– It’s the other way round!! Hearts fans have to endure the WHOLE SCHOOL END singing pro-IRA songs every time Celtic visit. Selective memory. How did Hearts manipulate the rules? They weren’t in admin at the season’s end regardless of what you hoped for. Rangers our cousins?? Deluded.
we could Field a lesser team against them, to show our appreciation Mick
and let them get some of the points back they got given, every bit helps i suppose to keep the spl in tip top condition EH.
Hearts have lived way beyond their means for many years during which time they have won the Scottish Cup on two occasions. The first time they beat Hibernian 4-0 in the semi-final – a weakened Hibs team that had recently sold Garry O’Connor in order to help reduce debt and allow the club to live within its means. The second time Hearts beat Hibs 5-1 in the final and these victories will linger long in the memory of many a Jambo but the question is, were the club cheating by playing players they couldn’t afford? I say yes in a moral sense but they were not actually breaking any rules.
As I remember, Hibs had at one point some £17m of debt and have traded their way to financial stability at a cost of watching their neighbours humiliate them on their way to perceived glory. It’s similar in a sense to Celtic trading their way out of near bankruptcy while their now liquidated neighbours won nine league titles in a row. Can this be fair? Clearly not but again, there is nothing in the rules to prevent this.
For this reason, if Hearts are to be punished beyond a 15 point deduction at the start of next season then it must be in accordance with the rules. If that means relegation then send them down. If not, then let them stay up. Either way I wish their supporters well because they were magnificent in helping the club stay afloat last season and deserve better than Romanov.
I just wonder, in the event of a liquidation, whether the fans would still consider the cup wins, and the victories over Hibs along the way to be triumphant. Strangely, I think they will because that is the insanity of football.
mick.
So, first the ‘holding company’ goes bust, then the bank that owns the ‘holding company’ goes bust, then the ‘club’ goes bust.
In the ‘interests of sporting integrity’ [ especially St. Mirrens ] Hearts should be docked 15pts for each insolvency event. Sub- total 45pts deducted. Then another point for luck, one for the road, and one because it’s Hearts – grand total 48pts deducted. Hmm, let’s see – oh yes – another two poInts for employing Ian Black as a footballer [ contravening the Trades Description Act]. 50pts altogether ! I think that should just about,maybe,perhaps see the Saints safe for another season.
@Bud.
Lol. I’ll give you the two points for Ian Black.
barca.
Off at a tangent – it’s not over till it’s over seemingly!
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rkuqf2
alex thomson @alextomo 9h
Craig Whyte says Rangers and Charles Green have responded to his Letter Before Claim. Imran Ahmad has not…
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alex thomson @alextomo 9h
Both sides now enter a period of exchanging evidence prior to possible court action
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@garybrown1984 normal legal procedure of disclosure
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@Budweiser.
Will the CORRUPT SFA, continue to take the word of noted liar CG over the word of noted liar CW, now that this appears to be heading to the next phase? On what grounds, other than it suits them, can they justify their decision.
I can guarantee them, that the evidence of CW, will make Cha appear to be the sweetie wife that Cam claims her to be. His evidence, WILL be given more coverage, and it will be damaging for the game.
It will also be very damaging for the CORRUPT SFA.
To restore some reputation to this rancid body, I suggest there is only one course of action available to them. Do what is right!!!
Suspend Sevco’s membership and resign their posts with immediate effect.
He phones ASA and speaks to somebody –
” They also agreed that the Glasgow media has a recognisable blue bias, and this was a person from London.”
The “somebody” also hasn’t a clue what they are talking about. Lol.
Yet another liar finds his way behind a keyboard.
Bud – I credited you with more sense than that. The poster is so blatantly a romancer it’s leaping from the screen.
wullie.
Bud – I credited you with more sense than that. The poster is so blatantly a romancer it’s leaping from the screen’
Sorry, you are confusing me with someone who gives a shit . The show must go on !
Bud, oh, it’s a “show” alright.. Spotting the liars and fairytale-tellers amongst the obsessed and deluded is great fun.
Better than the tv in fact.
wullie.
Spotting the liars and fairytale-tellers ‘
You must be talking about chico wullie. He was the prince of the above
Was that 2 pints or points ? 🙂
Paul,
As I am sure you are well aware (hence the somewhat mischievous post) the rules etc., of the SPFL have yet to be written. So anything is possible.
However, given recent history, I think we can rest assured that the usual suspects will do just whatsoever pleases them.
Paul
Sorry, but you are completely wrong about the penalties imposed on Leeds United. The first point deduction was applied to the season in which they were relegated, which was completely in accordance with the rules of the Football League. Ken Bates, the then chairman of Leeds United, completely played the rules in this, to the outrage of much of English football, which called for a further penalty to be imposed the following season.
However, the 15 point penalty which was imposed, was NOT in relation to them going into administration, but was through their failure to come out of administration through the Football League approved method of a CVA, which CVA never took place, and was imposed by the Football League as a discretionary punishment and “accepted” by Leeds as the condition for the transfer of the Football League’s golden share to the new owners of Leeds United. Nothing to do with the going into administration, and any attempt to impose any such further penalty for the same offence would have been struck down by the courts/FA tribunal.
Blah blah blah blah… who gives a toss about the minutiae of your old club’s dying days. Here’s the pertinent fact: they’re deid lol. Bought the new Celtic top yet?
Why would I buy a top for Bigots ‘R’ Us?
Quite right MOT, who would buy a top from the old Rangers? Stick to the tic. When did you put in your order?
Do you mean for the 1888 Celtic or the Celtic after that Celtic died when it incorporated, or the 2002 Celtic after the old Celtic died? there are so many Celtics running around pretending to have history it is difficult to keep up. That must be why Celtic has three strips. One for each of the dead teams.
I see UEFA have now given Derry City the coefficient of a brand new team. I thought the Sevconians were using Derry City to try and convince folks they are the same club lol
What I can gather from sevco, hearts and the dunfermline situation is that our governing bodies are completely useless. They have stumbled from one mess to another and cannot or will not put their heads above the parapet in case it gets shot off. ie gutless cowards without shame.
Get Ogilvie out NOW and stop fannying about. Get rules in place and administer them without fear or favour. If clubs go to the wall, then so be it but FFS stop stumbling in the dark showing everybody how utterly incompetent you are.
That top notch administrator (the shredder) should have been stood down from day one to ensure impartiality. Get them in a room (minus the shredder) and don’t let them leave till its sorted and take somebody who knows what they’re doing.
When it’s all finished and the rules are in place, get rid of that shower of shite once and for all. In any other occupation their incompetence wouldn’t have been allowed to fester.
Fingers out the pie gentlemen and do everybody a favour and ‘just do one.’
‘ Now that’s what I’m talking about’ !
@Monti……Great minds think alike mo chara. TAL
Good afternoon to you in Australia Fra.
Thank you JB. A very pleasant afternoon it is too.
The SFA are there to ‘professionaly’ organise the game and to make sure the arbitrating rules are adhered to. Supposedly.
…And pass anti-Catholic e-mails around the office, deliberately withhold a players registration, make up rules as they go along, break their own rules as they go along, predict social unrest & cause general confusion by telling dead clubs they aren’t dead…….
And thats just the stuff they’ve been caught doing
If Hearts get liquidated, could Hibs buy their History?
This would end the nonsense about Hibs never winning the Scottish cup!
Just saying like, Ken. 🙂
Mick, Barca: everything you say is true but their fans are the layer of dirt found on the surface of a liquid in a stagnant pool. I’ll look out for posh Violet in her Morningside furs at the funeral. I’ll be the one laughing at the back: “Hello, I just popped in….” Lol.
Only one team in Edinburgh, one team in Edinburgh, only one team in Edinburgh… Bring on the Hibs, the Hibs and the Hibs…
Edinburgh’s green and white.
Hearts are on way out I hope, so sad to bad
And I hope that twat who attacked Lennon is greeting into his methodone cup
” their fans are the layer of dirt found on the surface of a liquid in a stagnant pool.”
– One idiot attacks your manager & ALL Hearts fans are supposedly scum??..& you think the 3,000 away fans at Tynecastle who sing songs in support of people who kill the soldiers who protect our country are what??
Let’s have some Hibs fans on here giving their opinions on Hearts woes, it must be a real wrench for them watching Hearts struggle!
. 🙂
Stewart Regan: “The SFA has a lot of mouths to feed”. Starting with EBT Ogilvie, then Regan… Like bankers, they get rewarded for failure. SFA = Sheer F****ing Audacity.
INTERESTING :
When Celtic was in financial trouble in the early nineties, Fergus came in & cleared all debt & all the creditors paid in full, with the help of the Celtic fans OVER SUBSCRIBING successive share issues, we saved our club & rebuilt our club, there was a real family sense of effort in contributing at that time.
The rebuilding of Celtic, led by Fergus was done with a professional, structured & dignified manner, no Charles green types turning things into a comedy circus, no SFA rules being bent & most certainly no shady characters involved in the process, like Charles Green or Dave king for example.
Celts for change pressurised the old board & helped remove them, the rest is history as they say!
What did Rangers fans do to save their club from liquidation!
NOTHING!
I wish to thank the Rangers fans for that, they died, they are dead, we know it,they know it & Scottish football knows it.
Thanks Fergus, Brother Walfrid is proud of your work HH!
Bet you booed him when they hoisted the league flag along with the rest of the morons at Celtic Park.
And so it came to pass that the monsters of capitalism were slain – Rangers and Hearts – and there, in Paradise and on The Holy Ground, stood the glorious giants of Scottish football, Celtic and Hibernian, united in victory, laughing across a sea of green and white, joyfully celebrating the demise of the devil’s work… Give me joy in my heart give me The Insolvency Act 1986, give me joy…
Virgil Van Dijk: “Celtic are the biggest club in Scotland and it is my feeling that it is a warm club with great fans.” Well said that man.
It really is an exciting time to be a Celtic fan, Champions,Scottish cup holders & in the champions league qualifiers again.
Players coming in, cash rolling in…..the the rangers ? Oh dear!
1 out of 3 ain’t bad, I suppose.
Desperado…why dont you come to your senses?
ASA Adjudication : 12th June 2013.
ASSESSMENT – Not upheld.
ACTION – No further action necessary.
Now-Then-Forever.
Wish i knew how to put video up.lol
Stevie.
There is an appeal pending on ASA.LOL
Would you happen to know the whataboutery or context of the appeal Budweiser?
Stevie.:- I posted a link last night. Haven’t a clue about the veracity or otherwise of the content .In the absence of mad vlav and chico entertainment is where you find it.
@Budweiser
Cheers
“Wish i knew how to put video up.lol”
– Probably a step too far for a Sevconian.
Yet another victim of the Johnny foreigner “lost in translation” series.
His official quote was jiggery-pokeried aboot with.
However i can exclusively reveal what he mumbled when being dragged off the Brother Wilfrid memorial by police for allegedly mistaking him for Cardinal O’brien that what he really meant to say is as follows.
“Celtic have a big stadium half full of warmers.
Hopefully the rest of the roasters will turn up as it would be good playing to a big crowd of fannies.
was awaiting with interest to see who might be out of a job at hampden what with all this restructuring y’know and dang me no sooner than they had abolished one league than they dreamed up another so the hampden headcount will remain intact. surely also the premier league has to be renamed. logic and common sense suggest that it ought to be called the first division ( of the spfl) but the marketeers will want something snappier.
Points deduction for administration…..
Liquidation means there is no club to punish.
If they are liqiudated, they must beg to enter the third division like all other failed clubs, assuming of course, they have been bought, lock stock and barrel.
Certainly, there should be no more crass attempts to save them like the authorities tried with rangers fc.
So, worst case scenario, we can have the “British” derby next season between the 2 new clubs, “The rangers” and “THE Heart of Midlothian” taking place somewhere in the depths of Scottish football.
I’m sure the TV companies will cause a stampede to get the rights to that little corker. LOL
“After all, if administration had taken place before the season ended, Dundee would be in the SPL”
– It didn’t so they aren’t.
Always feel sorry for clubs going into administration, it is very tricky to come out of a situation like this, especially as so many denominators come into it, including players, the manager, owners , future owners and the fans..