Rangers International Football Club PLC (RIFC) made the following announcement yesterday:-
Rangers International Football Club plc
(“Rangers”, the “Company” or “Club”)
Share Transfer Agreement
The Company announces that under an agreement entered into by Charles Green, the former CEO of the Company, with Laxey Partners Ltd (“Laxey”) on 19 October 2012, Mr Green has agreed to transfer 714,285 shares owned by him to Laxey, once free to effect a transfer. Under the terms of the lock-in agreement entered into by Mr Green with the Company on 7 December 2012, Mr Green is prevented from transferring shares before 7 December 2013, without the consent of Cenkos Securities plc other than in limited circumstances such as to connected persons, a family trust or in the event of a takeover of the Company.
Further to the announcement on 19 April 2013, Mr Green left the Company on 31 May 2013.
Companies House records now show that on 4th June termination of Mr Green’s appointments as directors of The Rangers Football Club Ltd (formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd) and RIFC was recorded.
RIFC has also, over recent weeks, taken steps to tidy up the various subsidiary companies which had sprouted over the years from the Ibrox soil by having them dissolved.
So, farewell too to:-
- Rangers.co.uk Limited
- Rangers Media Investments Ltd
- Rangers Matchday Services Ltd
- The Rangers Shop Limited
- Rangers Financial Services Ltd
However, at least according to Companies House records (which can be a couple of days or longer behind depending on when changes are reported) Mr Green still seems to have some Rangers connections.
For example, Rangers Retail Ltd, set up to be the joint venture between Rangers and Mike Ashley’s Sports Direct, still lists Messrs Green and Stockbridge as Directors.
And we also have Garrion Security Services Ltd. This was formed in September 2012 and its name was changed to Garrion in November. The original name? Rangers Security Services Ltd. The directors? Messrs Stockbridge and Green.
Who could possibly have predicted that, soon after a successful share issue, Mr Green would leave the newly floated company?
After all, he talked about not leaving till the Champions League theme was played at Ibrox, and he spoke about being there for the long haul, and of having his grandchildren come to the games.
Well, Ecojon here was pretty spot on in suggesting that Mr Green’s track record of PLC involvement demonstrated that, whilst he might well be a great wheeler-dealer and salesman (and candidate for “Businessman of the Year”) he was NOT someone who had a history of hanging around after the flotations take place and the cash is in.
And that is not to cast aspersions on him – in fact, if one was cynical, one would suggest that he was never intended to be at Rangers for a long time – instead he was to be a front for the flotation, being able to speak out brashly and boldly, confronting the football authorities and rallying the Rangers faithful behind him, so that they would buy season tickets and then shares.
In fact, if one was really cynical, one would see his resignation as having been engineered with his acquiescence, as, after all, has he not been “cleared” of any wrongdoing by the Pinsent Masons investigation? (Not from what the announcement actually said of course)!
So why has he gone? Such a dynamic and inspiring businessman would surely be an asset to the Board? Why did no one ask him to return triumphant? Unless the plan always was for there to be some excuse allowing him to exit stage left at a suitable time.
But that would be overly cynical, wouldn’t it?
I will post later about the share sale announcement, which itself seems slightly odd, but for now, let us all remember the greatest hits of Charles Green and Rangers – the Dallas Cowboys, Manchester United and the “most financially stable football club in Britain”!
All the best Charlie in whatever you do next! And if you are going to be involved in another PLC flotation, let us all know so we can get our bets laid about how long you will stay as CEO for!
Posted by Paul McConville
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
Next stop BarL 5* accomodation HMP and the longest he will stay in any “new venture” IMHO.
michaelk1888
June 6, 2013 at 10:06 am
“Next stop BarL 5* accomodation HMP”
==============================
That’s an opinion I would have agreed with before I became aware of characters like Craig Whyte and Charles Green.
Not any more.
Although pilloried and ridiculed as clowns and fools, they have spent their lives in dodgy deal land, chuckled all the way to the bank, and have managed to stay out of prison by staying one step ahead of everybody.
No incarceration for those chaps.
And in spite of Zombie threats, not even any retribution from the boys in blue.
Along with a few others –
” John DC Gow @JohnDCGow
4 June: Gregory Campbell MP asks Treasury if HMRC dealing with accusations of leaking RFC’s tax details. Reply -Police & PF investigating.
John DC Gow @JohnDCGow
Graeme Morrice, Lab MP for Livingston, also asked Treasury about alleged HMRC leaks of RFC’s details. Same reply: Police & PF investigating..”
Should break just in time to throw a spanner into the works of Milibands attempt to be PM.
By your friends shall ye be judged.
Lol.
“By your friends shall ye be judged”…………obviously that’s you judgement free “wee winky”……….
Gregory Campbell – wonka type vermin
” one politican gets on my goat it is Greedy Gregory Campbell the DUP scumbag. This parasite rakes in the money by having three jobs. He is a nasty hate filled bigot of the DUP old school. He even wanted a memorial for Sam English a player for Glasgow Rangers FC whose only claim to fame is he killed by accident the Glasgow Celtic player John Thompson. What a vile nasty worm this man is. If you happen to have a vote in East Derry please don’t vote for this poor excuse for a human being.”
http://hoboroadpoliticalhighway.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/greedy-gregory-campbell-of-dup.html
michael. – lol
Thanks for the reply bhoys!
So my original question was:
“Portsmouth Football Club – how old is this League 2 club?
Is it..
a.1898
or
b.2010”
1. The facts.
As was clear from the links I provided:
– Business and assets of Oldco transferred to Newco “oversee the transfer of the business and assets of the Club into a new company (‘Newco’)” http://tiny.cc/qqy8xw
– The “Club” (the company) was then placed into compulsory liquidation. “At the end of the nine month period the original legal entity, which traded as the Club, will be placed into Liquidation.” (Confirmed here http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03747237)
So… new legal entity founded 2010, previous entity in liquidation…
To the “club=legal entity” crew, the answer MUST be 2010! Surely…
But no…
“portpower June 6, 2013 at 2:16 am a.1898. The Pompey Supporters Trust (PST) and other investors helped Portsmouth from going into liquidation.”
“Jimmy bee June 6, 2013 at 2:12 am: Portsmouth won their case against the HMRC, and were granted a cva. The cva entitles them to be the same club IMO,as they were prior to 2010.”
Another fine example of the willingness of some people to evade the consistent application of the principles they apply to Rangers.
Why? Because those principles are absurd.
Morning AD,
Portsmouth I believe,continued to pay back their debt through the cva,the compulsary liquidation,was part of that process,in which I think was the same route that bill miller was going down with rangers,in which he would incubate the bad debt,whilst trying to move the club forward,and then when on a more financial base,marry the two back together,any assets left over from the liquidation would have been put back into the pot for the creditors.So continuation of the club who were or attempting to pay back the creditors.That to me is the difference with the rangers scenario IMO.
So you don’t believe the “club = the legal entity” principle so favoured by new club advocates? (as – we all agree don’t we – liquidation of the legal entity/company = death of legal entity/company).
All of this will soon be irrelevant when Sevco suffer their insolvency event.
Rangers dead.
Sevco soon to be.
And two carcasses for the Zombies to mourn instead of one.
Now…will the Zombies have the stomach and deep pockets to push ahead with ‘The The Rangers’? (This time we’re serious)
Who will be worshipped as the next saviour?
The next Chazza Green?
There are certainly enough dim huns out there make that a possibility.
Rangers fans – like Palace fans, like Pompie fans, like Leeds fans, like Charlton fans, like… (you get the picture)
..are loyal to RANGERS FC – their team, their club – regardless of which particular corporate guise is its vehicle.
I’ve no doubt the same would apply to any other set of fans.
Absolutely.
Just create something you do not have to defend in future or spend your life defending because it violates ethics, morals and justice.
To do that in future act ethically, morally and respect justice.
Do you see any sign of that emerging? When it does you will have no need to defend because there will be no need for attacks.
The only thing ive been defending are the facts – as i said i have opinions on the morality of it all but they are irrelevant to the issue of Rangers survival/status.
@carntyne……AD strikes me as being a decent guy, but he’s not interested in following the logic of, liquidation = death. It’s more of a Messiah Zombie raising “Lazarus from the dead” project, aligned with smoke & mirrors. Smoke = obscured vision, mirrors = deflection
There’s a lot of it about of late.
Mac Tomas
June 6, 2013 at 2:11 pm
=============
Playing golf on Monday and ran into a couple of Rangers supporters.
Really decent guys.
I sensed a shift in attitude during a little back and forth banter.
For those two anyway denial seems to getting left behind and signs of acceptance beginning to push to the front.
Never thought I’d see the day, but expect this to become the norm for most in the weeks, months and years ahead.
Except for the dickheads in their support.
Sheff utd and now Sevco or what ever name they now go by.
Auldheid,
Always enjoy reading your responses…
You said: A club has to wait until it is a member of its national association for 3 years before UEFA allow it to participate in any UEFA competition. That is UEFA’s position.
Yes but they also exclude long-standing clubs (ie. Not just “new clubs) from participation for 3 years for “any alteration to the club’s legal form or company structure”. And yes that is a direct quote.
It follows that as The Rangers are not eligible for consideration until they have existed as a member of their national association for three years UEFA consider The Rangers to be a different club from Rangers.
No, because both “old” and “new” clubs can befall a 3 year exclusion, it doesn’t follow at all.
“UEFA consider The Rangers to be a different club from Rangers” No they don’t. They’ve never stated that anywhere. That’s based on your interpretation of a couple of lines in a rulebook taken out of context (the wider application of which leads to absurd conclusions – as I have proven – regarding the age of clubs like Palace/Portsmouth – see above for the latter).
They have this rule in place that specifically does not recognise a change of structure where it is done to facilitate entry and undermines the integrity of the UEFA competition.
Yet they recognised Derry City’s new legal entity by allocating them co-efficient points from their pre-liquidation campaigns. You need to re-evaluate your position I think.
So what ? Restructuring to facilitate entry at expense of intregrity of competition is there in black and white.
Dig out the coefficient rules and lets see why they deviate from the principle of Article 12.
Perhaps the reasoning if it exists and is not just an oversight backs up the meaning you have applied.
On a related point. Are you familiar with The Woes of The Pharisees?
Google it and see on which side the mindset that is at play here stands.
Then ask yourself why is all this woe happening to us? To stop the woe change your mind.
All in disputing is this widely-held false belief that if a club is hit with a 3yr exclusion, that means uefa view it as a new club.
That is contradicted by the line about how longstanding clubs can change their legal/corporate form, as Rangers undeniably did, and still fall foul of the exclusion (as well as new clubs).
Regarding your pharisees stuff, who’s being hypocritical? Uefa? You may be right. Ive always kept the facts of the Rangers saga quite separate from the morality of it. I can offer objective insights regarding the former, but certainly not the latter!
If UEFA view it as the old club which means the same club why are they excluded?
Because, to quote the rules directly, Rangers have experienced an “alteration to [their] legal form or company structure] which “is deemed as an interruption of membership within the meaning of this provision”. As you are aware, “the membership must have lasted.. for at least three consecutive years”.
You may also be aware, STV journo Grant Russell contacted uefa directly and was told this was the explanation, with the same rules quoted to you as i have done. Do you need the link?
@AD
I think you may well be correct in your view that the club survives but not for the reasons you suggest. Article 12.1 of the UEFA club licensing regulations specifically clarifies that the term club includes the legal entity fully responsible for the running of a football team. Had oldco been running your team at the time of their liquidation then, so far as UEFA are concerned” your team would have ceased to exist with the liquidation of Oldco. IMO however what saves the day for those who support the continuing club argument is the fact that the football team had already been transferred to Newco by that time. That is to say that at no time has the legal entity fully responsible for the running of the football known as Rangers been liquidated whilst still having that responsibility. The liquidation was of Oldco at a point in time when it had already passed the reonsibility for the football club over to Newco.
All apparently legal even if morally reprehensible. It beggars belief that carpet baggers and venture capitalists can cherry pick the profitable parts of a vulnerable company for a pittance and make millions in the process whilst the legitimate creditors are left to fight over the scraps of toxic assets and debt. In summary, the law is an ass and Rangers are morally bankrupt.
If you feel minded to comment in reply I would appreciate it if you restrict your comments to the well reasoned arguments which you are quite clearly well able to deploy, rather than the sarcasm and personal abuse to which you resorted the last time you responded to one of my comments
There is no reference to long standing clubs but there is a reference to clubs who change their structure being deemed to having an interuptance of membership.
It is this break in membership that requires a fresh start and UEFA require the restructured club to be members of their national association before UEFA will risk the integrity of their competition by allowing them entry.
They are telling the SFA they can risk the integrity of Scottish football if they like ( which the SFA were more than willing to do) but it is not a risk UEFA are prepared to take.
Btw who, if Rangers were the club, was the company with a contractual relationship to operate them?
I’ve really got to wonder about your mentality. It appears that the spivs are committing daylight robbery and you’re still banging on about Portsmouth.
If you’re quite happy that it is Rangers 1899 (That’s a 19th century company) that Rangers 1872 have left abandoned dying in the ditch that is liquidation then so be it. I couldn’t care less and have become very bored with the argument. I for one would not be very proud of this. In fact I would have thought more of the Rangers fans had they went down with the ship instead of holding out for this pathetic illusion that defies belief from anyone with half a brain
You should be worrying about where you’re club is sitting just now. Still in the clutches of Spivs, who have an eagle eye on the “Blue £” that is the season book money. If I was you I would be more concerned over this and the fact that you are light years away from Celtic.
In the name of God go and direct your energies towards the people who are robbing you blind and leave us spectators alone to enjoy the spectacle.
Biggest show in town ? Biggest farce more like.
🙂
That’s why i engage in this debate because it matters to me whether a football club continuing in a different legal entity, through the transfer of assets etc, is a “this pathetic illusion that defies belief from anyone with half a brain”, or not.
I look at the facts (as distinct from what the papers tell us)
I look at the SFA, the Sfl, the Independent Commission, the European Clubs Association.. are they lying?
I look at the new corporate entities of Leeds/Palace/Pompie/Luton/Bournemouth god knows how many examples…. are those clubs a handful of years old? Has their history “died”?
And i reach an honest answer that is entirely consistent with all such examples.
I don’t need to pretend Palace will be in the top flight for the 1st time. Nor lie or deceive about whether cvas were achieved, companies were liquidated, or what the rules of the Scottish cup are!
Others on the opposing side – i know, ive seen them – cannot make the same claims. Whether that bothers them, like it would me, or not.
So the thought of supporters of other club’s saying that TRFC are a new club bothers you more than the fact that your club is being fleeced at this very moment ?
Are you not concerned that the 2nd Saviour (Charles Green) has just engineered himself away from Ibrox with a potentially disgusting profit for his 5 million 0.01p shares ? There’s plenty more spivs like him who have still to cash in.
You’re a strange breed. If this was happening at Celtic there would be a fans revolt. Instead TRFC fans “Wait and see how it pans out.”
I tell you what AD. See when the brown stuff hits the cooling apparatus again just disappear from blog – dome and don’t try to plead innocence for a 2nd time. You and the rest of the fans are complicit by your lack of action in the full knowledge you’re being ripped off again.
Hell mend the lot of you.
I am sure we will hear much more of Charles Green. His actions will take a while to unpick.
He had all the traits of a good conman and was in league with a group of people who know how to benefit from a distressed company: and not by turning it around.
One thing is significant though, when a well prepared reporter interviewed him he folded like wet cardboard. Maybe the press will pressurise the next regime a bit more, for the benefit of Rangers because they can’t go on like this.
But Ramgers didnt get a CVA. All they got was liquidation. Portsmouth fans fought HMRC. Rangers fans stood idly by. Hence we have The Rangers…….or Spivs United/divided/whatever! RIP.
“getting a cva” determines how much cash creditors get and that’s about it. Look at my first post above, Portsmouth got a cva and were still liquidated! Liquidation can happen with a cva, or without one.
Morning Paul, This whole Rangers business has been one big circus from day one, absolutely hilarious at the start & middle but there is a feeling that they are being assisted in their ‘adventure’ by unseen & seen forces.
The BIGGEST footballing outrage in British football is being covered up & airbrushed by the SFA & media in Scotland.
personally I have had more than enough of them, THEY have broken the trust of football fans in this country, there is apathy & incredulity at the antics & activities of the rangers.
There is NO trust in the people who run our game, they have bent over backwards to assist cheats & liars, this is unforgivable & unacceptable to the majority of fans.
This newco should not have been granted a license to play football until they had three years audited accounts! Simple.
There is a sinking feeling they have got away with this scandal & are being aided in their new form.
How a club can be potentially £150m in debt, get liquidated & carry on like nothing changed belies belief, it is disgusting.
We are even told that liquidation is not the end & they are 54 & counting? Wtf is going on here?
Every single club who is in debt should just liquidate & get on with it, why not? Nothing changes!
SCOTTISH FOOTBALL IS CORRUPT & STRICKEN WITH A CANCER, SOME IN THIS GAME ARE A TOTAL DISGRACE!
As i said on a previous post, the cheery “Rangers are dead” mentality of a few months ago has been replaced increasingly by an angry realisation of what has happened.
They were told, by the likes of cqn’s Paul Brennan, that “Rangers are gone”.
Of course in terms of everyday parlance, that is true for many bhoys – they don’t like using the word Rangers and have a favoured alternative to hand.
But semantics about “clubs”, principles regarding legal entities, and catchy nicknames – evidently – only go so far. The reality, at least as adopted universally now by the MSm, seeps through eventually. And there is a conflict…
“They were told, by the likes of cqn’s Paul Brennan, that “Rangers are gone”. – We were all told by Walter Smith,Charles Green,etc that a failed CVA meant Rangers were gone!
Monti – ” The BIGGEST footballing outrage in British football is being covered up & airbrushed by the SFA & media in Scotland.”
The word “irony” springs to mind here.
Lol.
I don’t understand. Where does the irony come from? Monti’s assertion seems to be reasonable and measured to me. Don’t you have the courage to say plainly what you mean? Are you another chickenshit bluenose trying to trash the good name of Celtic Football Club?
Yes he is Ed.
@Monti
” How a club can be potentially £150m in debt, get liquidated & carry on like nothing changed belies belief, it is disgusting.”
Did I dream Rangers were given a transfer ban, disqualified from Europe for 3 years and were playing in the lowest tier of Scottish football ?
You must have dreamed that knob head because it’s Sevco that have the…ahem….transfer embargo & were granted a membership to permit them entry into senior football for the first time in their entire history.
Bit of advice Niallist, don’t base future posts on ephemeral nocturnal experiences…..Unless you want to keep making a total Noel Hunt of yourself……………..
Dont be idiotic. He was replying to a comment where Rangers continuation was implied within the question.
Good afternoon Mac,
You must be dreaming if you think you have the authority or intelligence to overrule the authorities of Scottish football, they consider Sevco to be Rangers, bit of advice my friend, your thoughts( awake or asleep) are worth diddly squat in the corridors of Scottish football, keep your fantasies to yourself unless you want to be known as Walter Mitty.
“..if you think you have the authority or intelligence to overrule the authorities of Scottish football, they consider Sevco to be Rangers” – Intelligence & SFA in the same sentence! Kind of negates your argument right there. Remind us who Campbell “EBT trouserer” Ogilvie works for again?
ally mcmoist
thanks for reminding us again about that EBT CAMPBELL OGILVIE
how the fu%k is he still an employee of the SFA what a shambles
and they still dont see there is a problem
Hail Hail
Rangers were not disqualified from Europe for 3 years.
It is the restructured club/ company now called The Rangers that is excluded from participating in Europe precisely BECAUSE they are a restructured club/company in UEFA’s view.
To be viewed as a club/company that UEFA will allow to paricipate the new club/company have to be members of the SFA for three years.
If UEFA accept the SFA membership was not broken by the restructuring the 3 year exclusion does not exist. As far as I know it does therefore the SFA membership in UEFAs eyes is broken by the restructuring.
Sequence of events is
May 2012 Rangers Oldco not allowed into Europe for one year because of unaudited accounts and unpaid tax.
Oct 2012. The Rangers newco not allowed into Europe for 3 years because they do not have necessary unbroken membership ( required by UEFA) of national association due to liquidation and consequent restructuring to become The Rangers.
This is all part of Article 12 of UEFA FFP .
@Auldheid,
” Oct 2012. The Rangers newco not allowed into Europe for 3 years because they do not have necessary unbroken membership ( required by UEFA) of national association due to liquidation and consequent restructuring to become The Rangers.”
I don’t believe this to be the case, the 3 years was because it is a new company, not because its membership was broken.
Cause and effect maybe? The article puts emphasis on 3 years membership of national association which restructuring breaks as new company/club emerges from restructure.
Main point is UEFA address the club and separate company angle and imo there was no contractual relationship twixt Rangers FC and any non existing holding company at that time.
Rangers had the Registration embargo overturned in the law courts, the panel was told to reconvene and choose one of the proscribed punishments to fit the crime of cheating to the point just below match fixing, the SFA never reconvened the panel,
RFC 1872 went bust as a result of financial suicide.
Charlie Green negotiated a modified registration embargo, as part of the corrupt deal to allow Sevco access without accounts to the senior leagues, he was allowed to sign as many players as he wanted/could afford, not to many it turned out.
the registration ban started when it started for every club, when the transfer window closed,
When the next window opened Sevco were not allowed to register any new players, they were losing a £1m a month by this stage so new signings were not a priority to win the 4th tier.
the season ends, so far during this “transfer” ban as you call it Sevco have signed up more players than just about every other Scottish club lumped together, these free transfers, signed a sealed on pre contract will be allowed to play as trialists, what happens if they fail the trial will these players have their pre contracts ripped up.
why did the tribunal panel not reconvene and select anew punishment as the judge directed ?
Sevco don’t qualify to play in Europe, if they are banned can you post a link to the ban, what committee handed down the ban and on what grounds.
Rangers 1872 finished 2nd in the SPL,why did they not play in Europe?
Uefa always makes announcements when the ban a club, i must have missed it, so please post a link.
Sevco a newco were allowed to enter the 4th tier, favours handed out,no punishment, why were other clubs excluded from bidding for a place,
why was no vacancy created to allow any other club to apply,
RFC1872 were allowed to hold on to their SPL share until Sevco got a place in the SFL, so no vacancy.
the whole club 12 episode was just another stain on Scottish football
Charlie we shall miss you, your victorian racist views, your cheeky turn of phrase, your all round stupidity, and more than all your comedic value, now that was superb!! So bye and fare well dear Charlie prince amongst noble thieve’s (not saying anyone was a thief like, I mean everyone who has had/has /a connection to Ibrox is above board and I dont want to go to court. )
@Monti
I see Mr Bryce & Mr Walker are still persisting in the bore-a-thon of all time.Still trying to convince themselves that liquidation is not the end of a company.What else is there left to say? Bloody nothing.They will continue to believe in fairy tales,and continue to look for exemplars of why they still exist to give them crumbs of comfort.Well fine,”whatever gets them through the night” ( a little cliche for Mr Wikipedia Walker ) I mean, seriously Monti,it’s just like all their other deNialls 🙂 It didn’t happen if we say it didn’t.
They are simply trolls,trying to deflect from what’s currently happening with all the CF revelations,Craig Whyte and now more Chico Time ( my ALL TIME favourite)They must be really scared this time.What will they use to justify their argument when Spivco “bite the dust” cliche No 2 🙂
Can a zombie die twice Monti,a question of the ages,debated by minds greater than ours,well by Mr Wilikpedia Walker anyway.I’m in awe of him Monti,to perpetrate such an endless steam of bollocks on unsuspecting bloggers is quite an achievement,worthy of at least a Pulitzer,yeah if Pulitzer gave prizes for Googling info and them using it as a form of water boarding.
PLEASE Monti,make the bhoys stop encouraging the trolls by replying to them,for the sake of all our sanity.
More boring pish….meowwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
@Carson
Don’t be silly any anti-Rangers/pro-Celtic gossip is fascinating, it is the facts that are boring.
@Luke Skywalker…..”it’s the facts that are boring”………….your boring…..FACT
@Mac,
Put down the crack pipe son, your opinion is not a fact except in the delusions of your mind.
jaysus,the man that posts opinion on top of opinion as facts tells someone else for expressing an opinion,
De Niall expressed a range of fluctuating opinions on the court case over who owns Sevco, he also expressed all sorts of percentages and figures on what the settlements will be,
DiNiall, tell us again how the BTC “defeat ” caused the CVA to be rejected,
DR Who has a machine that allows him to time travel, am i to assume that you have one also, it’s the only explanation as to why something that happened in November had an effect on something decided the previous June, not just Di Niall, also deluded
orange walker with the pipe. East Fife up against your own best next season. Enjoy the game.
Absolutely Maggie, from now on i will be refusing to converse with anybody who refers to rangers in the present tense.:)
” from now on i will be refusing to converse with anybody who refers to rangers in the present tense.”
Rangers history will never be broken, get out of that without moving.
Of course it won’t it was concluded back in June 2012, to commemorate that they changed their name from RFC 1872 to RFC 2012.
Amen
@maggie
” Still trying to convince themselves that liquidation is not the end of a company.”
I see this debate is way beyond your ken, liquidation does indeed signal the end of the company, but it doesn’t signal the end of any undertaking transferred from a liquidated company to a new company, and according to the relevant articles, a club is an undertaking to participate in football.
” what’s currently happening with all the CF revelations, ”
Revelations that cannot be corroborated are known as gossip, your specialty I believe.
‘undertaking’ is a really poor choice of word when advocating the continuence of your football club following liquidation…..
arb,
Not if you believe in Cartesian duality.
@Niall Walker
Why’d you choose such a backward time in such a strange land?
Niall ‘Superstar’ Walker
Genuine leather, false prophet.
Niall your confusing undertaking with the undertakers,
ask my mate Paul Barer
rangers FC 1872 was a business in it’s own right, it traded it’s shares on the stock exchange,
SDM sold his vast majority shareholding to Whyte, Green had to secure those shares to preserve the history,
thats why the shares were needed, no shares no CVA,even if HMRC had agreed a CVA if Whyte had refused to hand over the shares the history would have ended.
the shares ARE the history, they were the unbroken chain going back to the founders that declared that Rangers became a business, there were 26,000 small share holders in RFC 1872, No holding company involved.
RFC 1872 was not an undertaking it was a business.
RFC 1872, from the official website of Rangers FC…..it is still there today,
CLUB HISTORY SECTION
read down to the Rangers BECAME a business part
http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/club-history/item/505-the-beginning-of-glory
@Niall.
You keep that one eye staring at the sun,son.
AD when Trigger (only fools and horses)changed the shaft & head of his broom 5 times and claimed it to be the same broom ….was he right ??? .Surely only a fool would agree with him ?………or a plonker !!
Facts are not established by appeals to analogy. They are entertaining mind puzzles but their relevance is trumped by reality, they vapourise in the face of facts ie. an official SFA statement, a judge’s enquiry, or a company house web link.
@ADBryce Bear in mind that a statement from the SFA carries little weight when much of the TRFC issue revolves around whether the SFA are competent and trustworthy.
Do you concede that there is the potential for something less than honest to occur when Campbell Ogilvie owes T/RFC £90k (that can be called in at any time)? I personally am quite sceptical regarding SFA statements simply because of the apparent conflict of interest involved – should we just swallow pronouncements that seem to defy recognised insolvency practice?
I’m not certain that any judge’s enquiries specifically addressed the issue of life after insolvency or purchasing history (a concept that is frankly hilarious if one were to apply it to, say, Woolworth’s or any other defunct business), always ready to be corrected on this point though.
I’ve no idea what Companies House says on the matter. Have they been asked the question and provided a direct unambiguous reply?
FYI, not that it should matter, but I’m not a Rangers hater nor a Celtic supporter (I haven’t paid attention to the SPL etc for +5 years because it was so dull), but the calamity/corruption/PR gaffes/hiring & firing/threats and leaks surrounding RFC are fascinating.
Football is a game, with outcomes decided by the rules of the game, enforced by the game’s ruling bodies ie. What is “official” when it comes to football entities is what the ruling bodies say is the case ergo the ruling if the SFA, in Scotland, is OFFICIAL, by definition.
The corporate world and corporate entities are different, governed by laws and what is official is what you find on companies house websites etc.
The crucial point so many miss – claims regarding X clubs survival/history are not corporate claims about corporate entities – no one is arguing that the CORPORATE entity that was oldco is not doomed!
The argument is that there is a football entity, the association football club/team, that can span multiple legal personalities and has a continuity that is recognised officially by the football authorities.
The evidence in support of that conclusion, regarding Rangers and many other precedents, is overwhelming. That’s why i enjoy discussing this matter, because i know the evidence is (ever increasingly) on my side. 🙂
@AD “the corporate world & corporate entities are different”….We are dealing with the mundane, material world aren’t we? Is this a venture into the nature of corporeal reality to try & get round your agony of the demise of your old team.? Have a go at Plato’s idealism…ideas are just as real as objects……in that realm you can claim Rangers still exist, in fact Willie Wonka can sing you a song about “Pure Imagination” 🙂
@Mac,
” .We are dealing with the mundane, material world aren’t we? ”
We sure are, and in the mundane, material world of the SFA, a club is defined as an undertaking to participate in football, and in the mundane, material world of Company and Insolvency laws, an undertaking can be sold, bought or transferred as a continuous entity.
Very mundane stuff indeed according to the people who deal with the mundane, material world.
After Lord Nimmo Smith found the old Rangers Club GUILTY on ALL Charges,regarding falsely registering players for over 10years,,he farcically fined the old club £250,000,which Has Not, nor Will Not, be paid! WHY? I think we all know Why! Because they They DO NOT EXIST! Well as Chuckles said,”it,s nowt to do wi’ us”
alexander,
If it is a football debt then it must be paid.
From whom. The consumed ₤
@ AD Bryce
“The argument is that there is a football entity, the association football club/team, that can span multiple legal personalities and has a continuity that is recognised officially by the football authorities…”
Sure, the legal constructs that surround businesses and clubs can alter and yet the business/club can continue throughout these events (many examples have been provided on these forums previously). However, it is beyond my logic to accept that liquidation is, to all intents and purposes, more or less the same as incorporating a business or whatever and that, uniquely, football clubs are immune to the terminal effects of liquidation. Is that really your position AD? Does anyone know for certain that this is the position of the SFA/SPL/SFL? It just seems a convenient and blinkered view they’ve chosen to protect the cash flow to/from TRFC.
I think I understand your point re. it being just a footballing matter and that if the SFA want to hold the view that TRFC are indeed RFC (titles etc) then perhaps they should explain the how and why to the many fans of Scottish football who have written to them asking for clarification because I don’t think any other club under the SFA’s remit has ever been bankrupted but also risen phoenix-like still holding the trophies. It’s a weird situation and the ‘official’ opinion on the matter seems suspect. I’ll briefly mention as a counter something that I’m sure you’ve heard before: TRFC entered the Scottish Cup this year as if they were an unseeded team, not the #2 club in Scotland in 2012/13. This is old news, I know, but what is the ‘official’ SFA explanation for this? League position in 2013/14 is irrelevant to the placing (naturally, it is based upon 2012/13 results) so too is ownership of the various licenses/memberships so surely this demands an unambiguous answer from the SFA does it not? We are all further confounded when issues like this are not clarified by the organisation that has promised transparency. It is their OFFICIAL position that there is continuity but at the same time they break their own rules.
The point I meant to make before writing all that is that the SFA etc are spending YOUR money and that of many 1000s of fans perpetuating this confused and contradictory existence for TRFC. Glad none of the cash being spent was mine.
Ad, you claim rangers were banned from europe , by UEFA because you “changed the corperate structure.
Yet when Celtic did the same under the great Fergus McCann, we had no delay before competing in Europe.
Can you explain to us “dunderheids” the difference.
No problem, uefa specifies only such changes that are “to the detriment of competition” or some such phrase – Celtic’s (as far as i know) was not, Rangers obviously was because it was down to insolvency.
@ AD Bryce.
What happened to Uncle Charlie going to court to get your clubs` players back. Would they not all be playing last and next season? Are they hiding somewhere?
Question for you AD
My friend’s dad bought him and his 3 brothers debenture seats so they could watch the big games together at Ibrokes – however he now has an email stating because he never bought a ST last year, his seat is now going to be null and void if he does not buy a ST this year – apparently his agreement is with the old co not the new co according to TRFC. Also his brother had shares in RFC-NIL – those shares are worth less than the paper they are written on now. How does his shares become zero overnight when I see they are worth 54p each on the LSE?
I notice your recollection of this part of the rules is not quite as clear as the previous example, which funnily enough backed up or supported you own view/stance? Just coincidence I’m sure 🙂 Also how is a club restructuring detrimental to a eufa competition, especially when it relates to a team in Scotland? Oh and is this concerning club restructuring or holding co restructuring? I don’t see how a holding company restructure can possibly be detrimental to a eufa competition? Stretch a wee bit more, that straw is your clutching at is nearly in reach 😉
Another baffling aspect is this insistence by the hoards on Munter Media, that Green “had” to deal with Whyte in order to secure his shares !!!
What shares ???????
His holding s come from his own floatation.
He bought the assetts from Duffers and Flops. Why on earth would he need to deal with Whyte unless he wanted to.
Over to you AD.
Geddy,
He needed his shares for a CVA, I assume the newco deal was a condition of this arrangement.
Why would he need the shares, if the club is separate and it’s lifespan is eternal and it’s History is ongoing regardless of what company buys it.
Why would those shares be needed.
is it because THEY are the history, the league and cup wins were achievements of the club. many clubs have history without winning a league or a cup
http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/club-history/item/505-the-beginning-of-glory
sevco a shammy for 1.
polish it sally.
Niall, why did he need the shares to get agreement on a CVA?
Is it impossible to get agreement without them ?
If Whyte got handed shares for his pound, they would have been shares in the old rangers which were practically worthless. They certainly did not constitute an asset.
@Geddy
” Is it impossible to get agreement without them ? ”
It is impossible to take over a company via a CVA without the shares in the company, and to answer the point raised by coatbrig, the CVA avoided footballing sanctions and some believed it was also essential to save the club’s history.
spivs sharing ₤1:50 each. Why pay ₤2 for ₤1 zombie?
AD,
“To the detriment of competion” . Surely that means if you gain an unfair advantage over the other teams.
What’s all this about “Insolvency”
Poor old Charles. Under the brilliant LED light shone by 21st century internet bampots he is a caricature more ridiculous than Homer Simpson – but in his own century he would have been a captain of industry, a pillar of society and a fine mill owner – wrong time, wrong place Charles.
@mcfc
” Under the brilliant LED light shone by 21st century internet bampots ”
Please tell me you are jesting, come on now folks lets stay real, don’t lose it completely.
@DeNiall
z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z z
say something interesting
The secret history of the brown brogue.
Modern brogues trace their roots to a rudimentary shoe originating in Scotland and Ireland that was constructed using leather with perforations that allowed water to drain from the shoes when the wearer crossed wet terrain such as a bog. The word “brogues” originates in the late sixteenth century and is a derivation of the Irish and Scots Gaelic “bróg”, taken from the Old Norse “brók” meaning “leg covering”.
A Mr. Jock Wallace introduced the brown leather variety to the corridors of Ibrox Park in Glasgow in the late 1960’s; and the footwear has become somewhat of a tradition at Rangers Football Club.
In particular; the design and number of perforations of the full brogue (wingtip) is based upon an ancient Masonic symbol which was also adopted by the Klu Klux Klan in the early part of the 20th century.
Standard decorum at Ibrox would deter the use of any segs on the heel of the brogue until full Grand Wizard status has been achieved.
In relation to the above, it is also said that the five pairs of lace eyelets is representative of the legendary quest for 10 Scottish league wins in a row.
Alistair McCoist has as yet only acquired the slip on variety of brogue due to his lowly status in regard to Scottish League wins.
My sources tell me alistair at the fitting refused the ‘ten holes’. The cobbler ,a frustrated bear, with the final extra twist of his ‘awl’ on the last eyelet uttered ” one for every f***** cup ye’ve been knocked out of. Ya ***** “
I see the hopeless Record has claimed today that Green actually paid a penny each for his shares.
Not according to the LSE website he didn’t.
There, he paid nothing, not a single penny for his holdings.
I wonder if Swally got his million for free as well?
Poor Cartmell paid 76.5 p per share for his 25000.
Oh dear.
What this shows is that it is still impossible to get the Laptoployal to tell the truth about “the rangers”.
Either that, or they are in total denial, along with the rest of Sevcovia.
geddy lee as you say green and swally get there share for fu%k all
Campbell the shredder ogilvie pockets £90,000.00 and the fans still are paying the price as was said many times hell mend them
i must admit i am well please that Charlie has left the building as i feared he was the only guy, that would have given the rangers hoards some impudence, and now that he is gone i can relax and watch Walter with cardigan slippers and pipe, knowing all will be calm
A.D. Bryce- You and your ilk are only deluding yourselves, no one else. We all know what happened, and is still happening. R angers died. Now, you must accept that reality, or you will never move on. Acceptance, is the final stage of the grieving process. Maybe you should see a counsellor. You are obviously struggling.
@Mr Green
There are none so blind as those who will not see……..waste no more time replying on the subject Mr Green.They make themselves look stupider by the second,it’s beyond embarrassing for them.
Leave them with their delusions,it keeps them from instigating “social unrest,” demanding names etc.We’ll all be safer for it.
Wow, an unevidenced assertion. Kaboooooma slam dunk! You got me, man!
To the victor go the spoils… (is a ‘thumbs up’ alright?) 🙂
The spoils are two feet in the grave A D.
Just over twelve months ago there was a combined £5m balance showing on the Companies House records of Rangers.co.uk Limited and Rangers Media Investments Ltd. Does anyone know where this has gone?
Isn’t this just Green selling off 750k of his 5 million shares, so it’s not actually a goodbye yet? Since this sale was pre-agreed, it sounds like it would have happened even if Green was still there being the figurehead.
Nice to be back in the peaceful shades of Scotslaw to bask in the brilliant sunshine of dispute and counter-argument. My turbulent and stormy days in Ireland where I sought solitude and silence in order to reappraise the situation in which Scottish football now finds itself entangled, are now over and are fast becoming distant memories for an old mind to ponder during its final years on this earthly soil. Today, I sunbathe once again in the clear skies of debate that have ever had a summer amidst the dark clouds of abuse but, like recent seasons of “mellow fruitfulness”, have never lasted too long. So, out comes the tin helmet and the bullet proof vest. A quick gulp of brew and a forkful of rations and I am ready for the fray. Ah! it is nice to be back, so nice.
I have a lot of catching up to do so my comments must necessarily be circumspect. However, I do wish to add my good wishes to Mr. Charles as he ventures on seeking new treasures. Would I be as cynical as Mr. McConville if I should wish him good fortune in the future.
One discussion that seems to be all “THE RAGE” at the moment is whether or not Rangers and The Rangers are one and the same Sevco. I am a Celtic supporter and there is a dark part of me that wishes Rangers were no longer a Scottish football club. However, perhaps due to the common sense gained during my sojourn in other lands and the distraction of “reality”, if I were a fan, Rangers would always be Rangers even if they changed there name to Celtic and Celtic will always be Celtic even if the name should someday become Rangers. This is my holiday gift to you all.
P.S. Can I just say that the Guinness was a bit on the strong side and almost all holiday presents probably deserve to be thrown in the bin – garbage, not recycle.
@Pensionerbhoy
nice to have you back – you have some catching up to do – to maybe save you some reading – let me introduce you to some of our new trolls. There’s Niall Walker (aka DeNiall) who has lots of time in his hands, appears to have the rounded world view of Adam, the deflection skills of Cam and the charm of Carson. There’s BB who has the rounded world view of Carson but less charm – yes it is possible. Then there’s Willy Wonka – who resembles the obvious anagram. Oh and AD Bryce who is new and still trying to make his mark amongst the lost and the lonely.
@ Pensionerbhoy
I agree with your emotional reckoning, and the fact you agree with me makes you a boring troll and closet anti-Catholic Rangers bigot, I will be ignoring you from now on, got to keep in with the ” in ” crowd.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
@PB good to have you back, I would not spend too much time reading back, you will waste a helluva lot of time in going thru that futile exercise…
Too many trolling posts trying to create endless debate deflecting the real issues that rangers face. The usual MO from the fans, But Wattie is back (for now) so all is rosy down asbestos town..
Hope you had a good holiday old yin,
Dont spend any time reading the last 3weeks blogs because they are very boring.
Walker, Bryce, BB, and co have deflected the posts to tedious levels.
I do hope Charles has locked in his share sale price. Price dropped over 7% this morning to 52p 🙂
What a gullable folk these Rangers fans are. Is there no end to their stupidity! Almost everyone on this blog could see right through Charlie Boy. He was only init for the money. Fankly, I have no respect for the man. He’s a vulture preying on the weaknesses of others. If that’s what makes the world go round, God help us. I don’t think he was clever. He simply manipulated the weaker members of our society by “stealing” their money. Nothing more than a thief in a different disguise. As for the future – let’s hope the fans don’t make the same mistake twice. Surely not?
@Joseph
There’s no known substitute for naturally occurring stupidity 🙂
@Joseph
H L Menken (b. 1880) said “”No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”
mcfc,
An East Fife fan finds this abusive comment very odd coming from a neutral Man City fan, it makes my neutral contribution seem almost tame.
@DeNiall
What’s your definition of “neutral contribution”
@ mcfc
” What’s your definition of “neutral contribution” ”
I do not refer to all Celtic fans as stupid, and it makes no sense for a Man City fan to call all Rangers fans naturally stupid.
.
@Pensionerbhoy
Welcome back pb.You sound in good form sir.
I’m off out now PB,so “speak” to you later no doubt.
@Maggie how are my big cats? I see some decent folk are STILL being drawn in and responding to the the mutant Trollers…
They need to be treated in the right way (totally ignored) so they can go AWAY and wrap themselves up in their comfort blanket knowing Wattie is at the helm…..
Deluded lot with head in the beach sand waiting for the next Tsunami to hit… Can Wattie sink them twice….Another record me finks…!! 🙂
I’ll away and get my boat….
Your Wellies will do!
But according to some posters on McMurdo yesterday Celtic have a £43m unaccounted for loss on their books. Any chance of Phil looking into that?
Thought not!
And is he to investigate what happened to Humpty Dumpty too – cos I read that somewhere too so it must be true. If you have an issue with Phil, don’t read him – do your own research.
John Mac
Don’t be too quick to give up on a reply.
Marky T was alamed enough to post the question earlier, except his post was addressed to Paul and his concern was over £32 million. You may be thinking of something like the EBT affair which related to Rangers and was about £43m.
I took the Liberty of replying,
Short answer. No truth in it.
Longer answer on the previous Blog.
Do you honestly think that ‘s true?
Celtic have now reduced season ticket prices after having them frozen for a couple of years. Do you think the club could afford to do that if they were “Hiding” 43 Million pounds of debt?
Sheer bampottery . So typical coming from the “Defense”
If true I imagine Paul would/ will be all over it.
The big difference is, the Celtic fans WILL take them to task if that “proves” to be the case.
Question for you AD
My friend’s dad bought him and his 3 brothers debenture seats so they could watch the big games together at Ibrokes – however he now has an email stating because he never bought a ST last year, his seat is now going to be null and void if he does not buy a ST this year – apparently his agreement is with the old co not the new co according to TRFC. Also his brother had shares in RFC-NIL – those shares are worth less than the paper they are written on now. How does his shares become zero overnight when I see they are worth 54p each on the LSE?
You’re not seriously looking for an answer to that question, are you ?
I mean, seriously ?
Lol.
Seriously! Why did TRFC say his agreement was with old co and not new co if it was the same club he was seeing this year? Why are there 2 different shares certificates – one says RFC and one says RIFC – yet Wavetower is not mentioned. So where is this mysterious holding co. And plus the co no on his share certificate is the same as the no on the D&P report that is being liquidated. So what did he buy shares in? RFC-1872-NIL. Was that too difficult for you?
@Exiled Celt
That paragon of truth and honesty Stuart Regan says it’s the same club. Who can argue with that!!?? Certainly not the debenture holders in Rangers 1872 and the other creditors who were shafted for millions of pounds by the vainglorious knave SDM! Rangers then, Sevco now, fu%k knows what next.
Anyone who risks losing his debenture seat for the price of a reduced season ticket is not feeling well.
His debenture is lost anyway because under the terms he was guaranteed the same seat and money repaid for the original loan in a few years – he is not getting that either. So another load of money taken from the wee guys for next to nothing!
If his debenture was lost how can they threaten to take it away ?
My dad had a bond and got the same correspondence. He was a creditor and, like all creditors, lost out when the old “club” went under.
what could the opposite of old “club” possibly be ?
Was he the face painter?
If a club sells its ground (which is an asset) it will still be the same club so the ground is not part of the club. If the club colours or badge is changed the club will remain the same club. If some fans stop attending and new fans come to watch and support the team it will still be the same club. If a team gets relegated or promoted or plays in different league it will still be the same club. If the club status changes from part – time to full time or professional to amateur it will still be the same club. If it gets liquidated it will cease to exist – hence Ibrokes having a show liquidation the red card display. If they were the same club they would have been seeded in this years Scottish Cup along with all the other teams who finished the previous season in the SPL.
Aaaah! So there wasn’t a rule that required all current 3rd division clubs to enter at an earlier round. Silly me. Where would i have got such a crazy motion from….(i don’t expect you to able to answer that question!) 🙂
So there wasn’t a rule that required an associated member of the 3rd division to enter at an earlier round. Silly me.
Yeah AD – some of this has got me thinking – you have been posting somewhat frequently about the old club/new club/same club – instead of wasting time repeatedly posting here about Crystal Palace, Portsmouth, etc. etc. (although I have no objection to you doing so) – would it not be more productive to employ your energies and talents into using the old club/new club/same club position as a principle upon which to argue for recouping £millions of debts to punters/small business/big business/hmrc – which many years of living on non-existent money and irredeemable debts have brought about?
Here’s a fun question. If I was to overspend, live up to my neck in debt, break a few rules, owe lots of money to friends and neighbours which I couldn’t pay back, go bankrupt and probably have my house repossessed would I still be the same person? Yes I would, even if I changed my name, but would most likely be vilified and criticised as being a complete twat who had lived beyond his means for the rest of my days. Imagine all that and being a braggart into the bargain!
SairFecht,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. So many arguments on the continued history of Rangers yet so few on the responsibly that needs to be undertaken to ensure that the continued history has some value.
The pride in the history a football team must surely be based on something that is recognisable as being worthy of such a grand emotion.
I have never personally had any problem with considering the current Rangers football team as inheritors of teams past.
To me a preoccupation with affirming the continued existence of a football team beset with wider problems of finance and and orderly governance, is a displacement activity with little to recommend it save the avoidance of more pressing issues.
Like a man tumbling from a great height engaging in existential thoughts when grasping the cord which releases the parachute would clearly be a better use of his time. So many Rangers fans are engaged in the wrong debate.
Good post Martin.
While the debate on “deid” or “no deid” goes on real issues are being ignored.
great reply i could not give a fuk to be honest… but if you printed these po past week trees would weep…
Debts are attached to a company, an undertaking to participate is not a company but a club, its really very simple.
@Niall ‘save the wail’ Walker
Are ‘undertakings’ liable for all football debts?
Give me an Eeeeeeeeee!
Give me a Beeeeeeeee!
Give me a Teeeeeeeee!
What do we get?
A bankrupt football club!
@Ray
” Are ‘undertakings’ liable for all football debts? ”
Yes, if it is part of the agreement, if a club does not pay its football debts then this is grounds for the undertaking to be cancelled.
@Niall ‘the messiah’ Walker
Give me an H
Give me an M
Give me an R
Give me a C
What do we get?
An extinct football club
dude gimme a fuk all response to those who drag this site down…. J
niall walker
give me an L put in a N
WHAT DO WE GET A WANKER
HAIL HAIL
RFC 1872 was a company,it sold shares it was listed on the stock exchange,
@coatbrig
This does not remove nor replace the undertaking.
no body can switch the undertaking once that final liquidation niall is hammered in…
arb,
The final liquidation nail had not been hammered in, the undertaking was transferred with the assets.
boy you’re all over the place niall….couple of days ago it was subjective if rfc survived as the same club.. now you’ve discovered this word undertaking which is sending you into orgasm…..where was this position days, weeks , months ago……………………………………………………………
why did the ASA use the words separate histories in their adjude ?
arb,
” why did the ASA use the words separate histories in their adjude ? ”
I believe the ASA are not one of two partners connected by the undertaking.
A few days ago I also stated it was wise for Celtic fans to AVOID arguing on technical grounds, it is easily dismissed, as I have shown.
The existence of this undertaking does not remove an emotional judgement, despite the technical correctness of the continuous undertaking there will be RANGERS fans who consider their club and history dead, never mind Celtic fans.
One can dismiss the whole concept of an undertaking on emotional grounds.but not on technical grounds, in your mind the bankruptcy finished the Rangers you knew.
I am not close enough to feel anything one way or another, so I go for the technical argument, the reason I have little anti-Rangers sentiment is because I do not hate in plurals, I cannot force myself to feel ALL the fans should be made to suffer just for the actions of a few individuals in the boardroom and a few individuals on the terraces. I do not see allowing SDM to bankroll their club to glory as being a cardinal sin of greed and avarice, just ask any Man City or Chelsea fan.
I was hoping ( somewhat naively) that the club that would rise from the ashes would be more modern in every way, almost a clean sheet for previous sins (cheating and bigotry). However the vote by the fans to deny Rangers back into the SPL, has had the reverse effect, Rangers have closed ranks and see themselves as victims of their own success, everyone is just jealous, the old superior arrogance has been refueled.
Celtic blogs demonizing their club and fans cannot hep matters either, there will be a human cost to all this vitriol and abuse, the internet is a very inflammatory weapon for both sides, you all read each others blogs.
I attach no blame to any of the involved parties, it is just cause and effect, the way of the universe, but I fear the consequences in a few years time will be more violence and bigotry. Between the resurgence of the WATP knuckle draggers and the emerging ” Green Brigade “, I fear the worst.
My biggest nightmare will hopefully not come true, the return of the sheer barbarism of Celtic/Rangers violence, a reenactment of Ulster’s problems on my doorstep, I am an atheist, you gotta be kidding me on.
“the vote by the fans to deny Rangers back into the SPL, has had the reverse effect, Rangers have closed ranks and see themselves as victims of their own success, everyone is just jealous, the old superior arrogance has been refueled.” – Even if The Rangers were allowed to enter the SPL do you honestly think these old traits would have needed “refuelled”? The arrogance was there for all to see when they expected special treatment before any vote happened.
I cannot force myself to feel ALL the fans should be made to suffer just for the actions of a few individuals in the boardroom and a few individuals on the terraces.
————————————————————————————————-
Niall I am a non old firm fan, I have spent thousands on Scottish Football, WE ARE ALL THE FANS that are being made to suffer by the actions of one club that took our domestic football to the edge of match fixing and bribing an official….we have ALL kept scottish football fuelled over the last ten years ‘ thinking that behind the scenes’ a sort of level playing field administratively was at worst protecting our investment………
I agree with large chunks of your reply and too hoped for a changed RFC but from the outset they were determined to come back bigger and uglier than ever……the rush to court and the crazy lord glennie case started all this………….
Nimmo – Smith should have had the ability to lid it but he was never up to the task, hoplessly inadequate, and has virtually guaranteed single handedly what you fear…..from memory i think it was sanction number 6 that he could have applied and in a football and judicial sense justice may have been seen to be done and the thurst for revenge quelled………………………………..
The games up as they say………………………………………………………………..
@Niall.
and you rate all this from watching East Fife. The SFA will carry sevco over the threshold and do it all over again. SFA and sevco sloppy seconds Football Association. The future of Scottish Football?
Mathers, Chico #2
“You [the supporters] might believe we don’t feel hurt to the same extent as you, but we do,” said Mather. Frankly, I very much doubt that you do, but anyway. . . “Sometimes you have to wait,” he continued, when referring to the action that would be taken against these Rangers haters. “We’ve chosen, and we will continually choose, the right moment to strike. Please, never believe that I or any other directors don’t know the names of the people who have tried to damage this club. We know them all. We know what each one’s tried to do and I can assure you we will never, ever forget about that.”
— “Who are these people?” well apparently Mather’s knows..
— Well that should be enough to sell a few tickets to the knuckledraggers, could have thrown in ‘Bigot’, ‘No Surrender’ and ‘WATP’ that would have added a couple of thousand more… The sword rattling worked before, all this offensive talk seems to spark a raging chemical reaction to the zombies.
— So much for building bridges….
THIS IS THE MAN THAT REPRESENTS YOUR CLUB… You are welcome to each other.
Jimbhoy.
Mr Mathers speech is open to so much interpretation that I feel it’s important to offer a simplified translation.
“Buy a season ticket!”
Yea Martin
The idiots will fall for the same old bull shit once again. The stupidest collection of morons that have ever followed a sectarian monstrosity masquerading as a football club. They deserve each other.
@Jim
” Well that should be enough to sell a few tickets to the knuckledraggers,”
Knuckledraggers need no motivation to buy tickets, but the knuckledraggers preaching hate against all things Rangers should be enough to sell more than a few tickets.
wibble wibble hatstand ya dik
Mr Walker fuk off and do not reply to anything i may type again.. Your comments over the past couple of months have been fukin Sh!te and not even funny, go mix with your own ya bigoted fukin ahole.. This site has died temporarily cos of you and yours… I have suggested good posters ignore you hopefully that may happen cos your stuff bores the balls off me, go see EF ya fukin numpty… Hail Hail ya imposter hun bitch..!!!
@Jim,
You ok Jim, don’t sound too good, try Buddhism, seemingly lying in a dark room chanting for hours clears the mind and cleanses the soul.
my last respond to you ya fuk up..!!!!!
@Jim,
Hi Jim, its me again, I hope I am not disturbing your sleep, you seem very agitated, I am putting it down to tiredness.
This is the attitude that hacked off a lot of neutrals in the first place.
Will be a better place when they disappear. England, juniors, liquidation, Charles Greens Euro World Series Championship Super Bowl or whatever.
Plus ca change….
@Ash spot on fuk them all , do not entertain them with a reply.. All those rangers haters..!!!!
yet another one, 5 minutes in the door and he is in charge of Ze List
Craig Mather. “sevcos` new age Trooper Vanderbilt.”
Do not approach this guy Mather if you see him in the Street,
This small video clip was released by Charlotte, it’s of the time his car broke down when he was on his way to be swore in as keeper of Ze list
oops wrong clip
try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V3SqxUomwk
Jaysus it’s stuck on the don’t tell him Pike clip,
I will give up now, three in a row is enough,
I feel all this technical jargon is too much for some on here to digest and it may help if I simplify things.
The SFA does not recognize any company as a club, it only recognizes a company that pledges to play football under their rules as a club. This pledge is what differentiates company from club and defines the company as a club.
.
There are millions of football clubs who are not companies but share one common denominator, they have all pledged to play football under rules, this disproves the premise that a club or a pledge cannot exist in of itself.
This pledge is referred to as an undertaking, and in Company and Insolvency laws an undertaking can be bought, sold or transferred, the change of company does not break the pledge, it continues on. The SFA accepted the transfer of this pledge from one company to another prior to the company being wound up.
Rangers has never been a football company, but it has always been a football club.
One’s moral outrage at both the actions of the company and the attitudes of the club does not merge the two into one. Unfortunately for some Rangers is not dead because they think they deserved to die.
D&P may have realized, for Rangers to be sold as a club whether it be by CVA or Newco, it had to fulfill its pledge to play football until the end of the season, if they had not then the club and its history would be dead.
History’s history has the answer…….of course history cannot die…..it meanders through time with the wonderfully named….. eras… epochs….ages….periods….. pre and post pop in to say hello and aid distinction and record keeping…….henceforth niall think of your club/clubs thus ….pre-liquidation and post-liquidation….its history’s way of easing the bitter pill it demands we all swallow from time to time
Trading while insolvent?
“There are millions of football clubs who are not companies but share one common denominator, they have all pledged to play football under rules, this disproves the premise that a club or a pledge cannot exist in of itself.” – A professional football club can’t exist without being a company. Hence Rangers disappearing from the SPL.
Mayde if all the “rangers men” who claimed that without the CAV, the club and it’s history would disappear explained what they meant, then maybe people would not be so confused about them now claiming to be the same club!!!!
So step forward McCoist( STILL apparently on an astonishing 20 Grand a week) Smith and of course, Jabba himself.
Naturally, no Sevcovian,no matter how many trips around the world they make speaking to the fans, dare ask them to explain, so I thought I would do it for them.
Surely they want to know?
Geddy,
As far as I am concerned most Rangers fans believed a new company meant a new club, and if Celtic had gone bust you can be sure they would be claiming Celtic was a new club with a new history.
Football fans are known for their passion not their reasoning abilities and impartiality.
Niall, your spot on.
My gripe is that these claims came from inside the club.
Of course, Jabba was a “neutral hack” at the time, and certain that the club and it’s history would disappear in the event of liquidation.
He completely changed his tune once on the pay roll.
I find it astonishing that they have never been taken to task for these claims by either the “media” or the club’s fans.
so…… undertaking = passion now your own position FINALLY becomes clear n and not a bad description of ADB too in respect of reasoning abilities and impartiality.
@arb,
Technically the undertaking is sound, passions can go either way on accepting this technicality.
Got to take issue with this…
“most Rangers fans” believed what they were being fed about ‘liquidation = the end’ without the slightest thought that there might be a ton of evidence of clubs continuing in new companies.
Liquidation was a scary word – it didn’t bear thinking about and that in turn meant the consequences weren’t thought about much either.
That’s an excuse that’s valid for the fans, but not for the useless media.
Those “r.i.p. Rangers 1872-2012” front pages look (to anyone outside the green bubble) totally absurd now. Fools.
Another who started with rangers fact to get embroilled in rangers shit… AND I must say the most unfunniest hun ever..!!!!! Rock on dude enjoy your supposed superiority and intellect… You bore the tits off me.. If honest..! Rangers then, now what the fuk, history is deplorable recent history is a 3rd div club…
AD Bryce you are a fukwit
Go Get some ice cream fella
The post is Chico pyro pants away…. Rangers posters tell me your thoughts on Chico… Actually don’t, go thru the who owns rangers thing again ya fukin retards.. so I can ignore this post for another 3 days…
Dudes my
own is them aholes
There is something on here that has reignited my interest in Ireland, over the last decade there seems to have been a sort of Irish ancestry resurgence amongst many of my contacts. People preferring to link themselves to Ireland rather than Scotland, some don’t give a monkeys about the Scottish National team( just Celtic and Ireland) and others whose whose roots with Ireland are so distant as to be considered almost wishful thinking. Now I am not saying this is terribly wrong or there are not Rangers fans with equivalent views or that all Irish ancestral claims are distant, but I cannot personally see how my grandparents birthplace has any relevance to my nationality. I certainly wouldn’t abandon my indigenous culture for my ancestor’s for no reason, so there must be a reason.
Is it to do with the Irish being very patriotic/nationalistic and passing it down through generations, is it to do with their religion being a minority in Scotland or is it a coincidence it is emerging alongside Scottish nationalism ?
well done zzzztastic
glad for you ya boring fuker,,,,,,,
Jim,
You do realize you can simply scroll past my posts, my name is on them, you are not obliged to read them in a free country. I am not sure if you are aware how thick your little whinges come across as, you are doing your own reputation no good.
I do often ya boring fuker !!!!
Niall.
In the last European qualifiying group, Scotland were playing Italy at Hampden. It was seen as an important game, as had Scotland won , then they had a great chance of reaching the finals.
In the pre match build up, there were numerous examples on tv and newspapers, of long established, Scots/Italian families, where one son was supporting Italy and the other Scotland. The media, both televisual and print, treated the subject in a jocular fashion – surely you remember it ?
The significant difference between the above reaction and your question re.
Scots /Irish descendants, to my mind, shows that there is an inherent anti -Irish bigotry in Scottish society. Both The Italian and Irish teams come from a predominantly catholic culture, but only supporting an Irish team would invite hostile abuse from certain segments in Scotland – Why is that ?
Bud let me down talking to this retard…!!!
JimBhoy.
‘Bud let me down talking to this retard…!!! ‘
Jim :- I am not a standard bearer for anyone except St. Mirren. I am aware of the hostility shown by some towards Niall and others. Niall just likes to be involved in a ‘ controversial ‘ subject – preferably on his terms and on a subject of his choosing. He will have the ground prepared for argument and counter argument – it’s what a good debater does as a matter of course. He will ‘ dangle a bait ‘ and wait for ‘ a bite ‘, and then ‘ reel them in ‘ .
Niall is more interested in the ‘argument’ than who wins the argument – it’s entertainment ! [ eg. should ‘ argument’ be spelled ‘arguement’ ? ] .
If you want to take issue with his posts, then do so. or ignore them ,it’s up to you.
For myself, I will comment on things/issues on which I have an opinion/view and ignore the rest.
i do not talk to the undead..! not even those from EF!!!!!!
do not do it i implore ya i am sick listening to shit and McConvilles site is mine of choice but i am close to fekin off for good..
Good. Don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.
@Jim,
You are coming across as a demented loonball, calm down and remember this is a chat room not your living room, try and learn to tolerate the views and attitudes of others. What age are you ?
Bud,
” Why is that ? ”
I can only guess it is an offshoot from the OF rivalry and all that implies, Scottish people are not all Rangers or even football fans, most view Ireland and its people affectionately. I reject the notion there is a general anti Irish feeling in Scotland, or anti Catholic, to me its back to football and the political/religious baggage that is still attached to two SCOTTISH football teams.
It is a disease of the West coast of Scotland, and I have had words with friends in the past from both sides, I resent Scots telling me they have more attachment to England/Ulster and the Union or Ireland than their native country, referring to Scots as ” Teuchters ” !!!
I get the impression some think the West Coast is a province of Ireland-Ulster, and part of my country has been hijacked to play out some foreign dispute.
I am anti-violence, and Scotland does not need this toxic mix, it has its own problems.
I can’t see how the country that my parents screwed in has any bearing on my preference for anything really. That is my genuine opinion, not trolling you AD. Why does it really matter to anyone what nationality they are, it all seems to scream tribalism and superiority to me.
“History is other people’s baggage, don’t carry it around” – Doug Stanhope
Sorry, that response was for Niall’ post at 12:10 am not AD.
I’m very tired.
@roorback
” Why does it really matter to anyone what nationality they are, it all seems to scream tribalism and superiority to me. ”
We are products of our environment, and our environment is our culture, it is nigh on impossible not to identify oneself in relation to ones culture.
I think it is linked to the resurgence of Ireland’s status in the world in the 80-90’s, the Tiger economy, Magners, Guinness, tourism and the ubiquitous Irish bars, they were even better at football than us. Throw in a bit of anti-govt rebellious romance over unification and Catholic victim hood, and you have a far more interesting story than being an embattled Scottish second class citizen to London and the Tories.
I can understand having Irish sympathies but I will never understand how some cannot feel anything about Scotland, hopefully not too many.
cock
cuckoo! ahole
Charlotte has put up audio of CW, D&P meetings.
Really funny part where wee Craigy rips a new rusty sherriff’s badge for fat Sal.
He discusses other bidders, but interestingly, he informs D&P of his intention to enter CG into the fray.
but it is all false fella the rangers under wattie are sound …….
@Jimbhoy.
Some good stuff there mate. Sandy Jardine.(couldnae run a bath) BK’s (Nae money) Brian Kennedy(niaive) Bil Miller(definite go-er) SFA/SPL, (determined to keep Rangers) P.Murray(Tosser&glory hunter).
Seems to me, Craigy was fishing, and wanted to know what deal to construct to get Chicco in. Seems D&P were happy to oblige.
O/T. But how did the wee man do in the final?
Had to laugh at A.D.Bryce..”STV’s Grant Russell checked with Uefa.” Did you not mean, Russell Grant ? He searches the stars. Maybe he could find Sevco’s missing 5 stars above the badge. Do you see where i’m coming from here, A.D. Bryce ? Whatever happened to those 5 stars above the badge ?? Maybe those 5 stars belong to a club that is far,far away. i.e. DEID !!
Niall.
‘Niall Walker
June 7, 2013 at 12:25 am
I think it is linked to the resurgence of Ireland’s status in the world in the 80-90′s, the Tiger economy, Magners, Guinness, tourism and the ubiquitous Irish bars, they were even better at football than us. Throw in a bit of anti-govt rebellious romance over unification and Catholic victim hood, and you have a far more interesting story than being an embattled Scottish second class citizen to London and the Tories.
I can understand having Irish sympathies but I will never understand how some cannot feel anything about Scotland, hopefully not too many.
Niall. – I know it’s late and not too many comments – but it is always polite to address your post. — conspiracy nut ; Wacko:anyone who has a brain: delusional: — Anything at all will do. – lol
Let’s be clear here. I support Scotland , as a football team, and politically. I agree that Ireland’s status grew from the ‘ pat and mick joke’ mentality [ bog trotter , no inherent intelligence ] to ‘super wonderful tiger economy bullshit’.
But my point is , it is not an anti- catholic vitriol per se, that is evident – more of an anti – Irish sentiment. This can be observed at times at rangers, where it is ok to be Italian catholic, but not Irish catholic. Hopefully the Jon Daly signing shows an end to this thinking.
bud,
I don’t think there is anything wrong in being pro-Scottish or pro-Irish, this in itself shouldn’t mean one is anti-English or anti-Scottish. I was hoping the troubles in Ulster were over and its revival both in Ulster and here makes me sigh with disbelief. Football rivalry on its own is sufficient to cause violence, once you mix in politics and religion it becomes a social disease.