Charlotte Fakes Reveals “Stud” Connection with Rangers’ Charles Green by Ecojon

I noticed one of the Charlotte Fakes ‘leaked’ docs had an email address for Charles Green: cgreen@holmedownstud.com and I wondered whether this was kosher or faked as I hadn’t previously come across Green being connected with a company of that name.

A quick look showed the website registrant for holmedownstud.com was John Paul Fraser of Whitley Bay.  I wondered if he was connected with Paul Fraser from Newcastle who set-up Panceltica – the AIM company which floated in March 2008 with a market cap of £236 million and within two years had crashed, burned and was liquidated with most investors losing their lot.

But Paul Fraser is into construction and huge companies so would he be connected with a horse stud business whose non-working website is registered to a very modest Newcastle address with barely enough garden space for a Yorkie terrier let alone a donkey?

I then remembered that Green stayed at Holme Downe in Okehampton prior to his ultimately disastrous AIM venture in the Middle East with Medical Solutions which pre-dated him becoming vice chairman of Panceltica in his next AIM adventure.

So there was the possibility that ‘Holme Downe’ could connect with the Green’s email address as given by Charlotte Fakes.

But given the connection to the ‘Fraser’ surname I wondered whether I had previously missed any links when looking at the Jersey-incorporated Panceltica and Green – what can I say other than mea culpa, mea maxima culpa?

The flotation document for Panceltica Holdings states:

‘On 1 October 2007 the Company’s subsidiary Panceltica Limited entered into an agreement whereby M & M Services Limited (a company registered in the British Virgin Islands) was retained to advise on the proposed flotation on a success fee of 1 per cent of the Enlarged Share Capital at Admission, plus the issue of Share Options (in favour of M & M Services Limited or its nominee) over 400,000 Ordinary Shares at the Introduction Price. These share options are to be issued in favour of Mr C. A. Green’.

I wonder who M&M Services are and what other offshore financial interests Chico has? It sounds a bit like the Orlit operation who were threatening to close Rangers down recently if they weren’t paid £400K for introduction fees arising from introducing original consortium investors to Sevco 5088 or possibly Sevco Scotland. As things have gone quiet I’m assuming the dosh has been paid?

And, of course, the British Virgin Islands are much-beloved of Craig Whyte whose Liberty Capital Limited is registered there.

OK so this just confirms what we already knew that there was a close connection between Chico and Paul Fraser of the crash & burn Panceltica. But what about John Paul Fraser is there a connection there?

Well, lo and behold, just like Chico, a John Paul Fraser is also listed as an option shareholder of Panceltica Holdings and it’s quite clear he isn’t the same person as the main man Paul Fraser.

We know that the web registration for the company with Chico’s web address shows John Paul Fraser as living at an address in Whitley Bay, so it makes sense to see if anyone else involved with Green or Panceltica is also connected to that address.

William Fatherley is registered as a director of the now dissolved FBF Ltd registered at that address and surprise, surprise Mr Fatherley is Paul Fraser’s son-in-law and was given a job as Panceltica’s chief operating officer as well as share options in Panceltica.

However after that project went so disastrously wrong for AIM investors in jig time, Will returned to his North East roots and has set-up ‘March ThirtyOne Ltd’.

His CV on the company website is truly awesome:

‘Will left the UK to take up an international position as C.O.O. of a technology based construction business, delivering fast track buildings for clients in the Middle East. Based in Qatar, Will was responsible for over $1m spend per day and set up new complex sourcing solutions from Eastern Europe, China and Turkey. He had a team of 1500 employees under his control and oversaw a successful flotation of the business on AIM in March 2008’.

Investors who lost their money might think that spending over $1 million per day of their dosh might have been a big part of the subsequent problem.  And as with many ‘successful’ AIM flotations the shine fades fast when the money raised disappears – especially in the desert sands.

Still, Mr Fatherley has proven that a well-written CV is the key to future success no matter what actually happened in the past and if the company you were made the COO of by your wife’s dad get buried in the sands of Arabia then don’t mention its name on your CV.

There are many more connections which tie Green to Paul Fraser such as the Royal Haslar Hospital project, which followed the Panceltica debacle, and which Green and Fraser left earlier than expected by locals.

In November 2009 Green became a director in Our Enterprise Haslar Limited but this was terminated in April 2010.  Andrew Parker Bowles, the former husband of Camilla, was a fellow director in the project to develop and regenerate the former Royal Haslar military hospital in Gosport, near Portsmouth, which included building a veterans’ village on the site.

Asked about Charlie, Brigadier Parker Bowles expressed surprise at his interest in Rangers and said he seemed more interested in horse racing and added: “We were all a bit surprised when he left because he had been driving the business.”

Posted by Ecojon

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152 Comments

Filed under Charles Green

152 responses to “Charlotte Fakes Reveals “Stud” Connection with Rangers’ Charles Green by Ecojon

  1. cam

    FFS,,,,cannae take any mair o this pish!!
    Clean off his fecking rocker!

    • Hi Cam,

      Hope you are having a good day.

      I guess you don’t have to much to occupy you at this hour so you find yourself at a bit of a loose end.

      Given the speed of your response to Ecojons’ post it looks like you are monitoring your twitter feed and caught site of a tweet by Paul introducing the latest blog or perhaps just refreshing the page on this site.

      Either way seven minutes to respond is pretty good going.

      I’m sure you took the time to read the post and give it some thought, though this is not evident in your response.

      Perhaps you will think of something more constructive to say when you have more time, or even offer something which informs the readers of this site of the errors in Ecojons post.

      I look forward to reading it.

      • In one instance site should be sight, my bad 🙂

      • cam

        Hi Martin,i was busy talking pish on the other rip snorter of a post by Paul when i saw summit to do with studs.Being heavily into the fetish movement and a long time wearer of nipple rings i thought i would pop in.Then to my horror i found that Eco had done one of his Google updates on the various movements of the lesser spotted Chico.
        I got to the riveting part about someone’s garden and a Yorkie interfering with a donkey and then i noticed my vital signs slowing down as the awful realisation sank in that this post if it accessed my memory core could result in me losing the will to live.
        I hurried ourside and ran like Forrest Gump and then i ran some more.After spending the last half hour playing wee heidies wi heavy goods lorries on the M77,i feel a lot better.Thanks for your concern.
        As to the accuracy and info?,in Eco’s post i’ll take your word for it! I ain’t reading that crap!
        He’s not real,he’s not real,he’s not real,,,,come on Cam snap out of it,he’s just a computer construct sent by the machines to defeat Neo.

        • Gosh cam,

          sounds like you had a trying day, chill out if you can. get your head down after a nice glass of wine.

          No matter what happens my advice is don’t read anything.

          No point in letting knowledge get in the way of a good nights kip.

          Calm down and have a good sleep.

          Your friend,

          Martin

          • cam

            Gotta go to work now Martin,i’m gonna talk so much crap tonite that the bhoys in the van throw me out,,i hear its gonna be a niCe evening and time spent alone gazing at the stars,contemplating Belisha beacons and their place in the cosmos ,is time well spent.
            If Eco says something interesting can you give me a sign?,,,pee on a Belisha beacon and that will catch my eye.
            I’m gonna try and follow the logic chain and methodology of trawling through an internet anonymous sweetie wife’s spoutings,finding a supposed link and extrapolating it into something full of the many wonders that Eco wonders about.
            Nope, i’m getting the Forrest Gumps again,,,run Cam run!

            • Cam,

              have a good night, polish that beacon as best you can I’m sure the resulting effort will be illuminating.

              It certainly beats reading and being informed, who would want that!

    • Niall Walker

      I am unsure what these connections ( as fascinating as they are) have to do with Rangers, the 9/11 terrorists were mostly from Saudi Arabia but we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.
      We have pattern making brains, its how we like to explain things, normally we look at the evidence and form a conclusion, some form a conclusion and look for evidence to fit it.

      • Jamie

        Which clearly doesn’t apply to the sevconians or their east fife supporters….I have looked and looked again at the evidence and concluded your fucked 🙂

      • Niall, You seem to have a fixation on Rangers, everything does not revolve around them..

        As it transpires they are but a cog in an ever expanding Clockwork Puzzle of Cons & Spivs in action.

        As Ecojon has frequently proved, follow the money, find a Spiv, follow that spiv, to his next con & so forth… They all seem to tie in to each other.

        While Eco & others do an excellent job of following this trail, you are free to contemplate your navel as you follow the ever-changing, Eternal Rangers on it’s journey through the Cosmos.

        To save posting twice, that was a better effort Cam, very Funny. I take it the medication & the Tennis didn’t work out for you?

        Get a bottle of Buckie to go with your usual cheap cider & watch Britain’s got Talent… That will sort you out better than Electric Shock Treatment. .

        • Niall Walker

          ” Niall, You seem to have a fixation on Rangers, everything does not revolve around them..”

          Ian….Ian….Ian….tap….tap….tap, all people talk about on here is Rangers, what do you expect me to be fixated on ?

          Its not me that thinks every single shareholding in Companies House revolves around Rangers…………..HELLOOOOOOOOOO.

          • Niall,

            Thank you for the sarcasm,

            Did I hurt your oversized ego by daring to point out the subject was Con Artistes & Spivs & NOT your Beloved New Born?

            Can’t you handle Honest criticism?

            You are the one one who went on Ad Nauseum about how RFC should have survived a CVA..How every other Club is not the same because of Club/PLC changes,,Shareholders changes ETC thus no other Club has a right to their History & other various amounts of claptrap.

            As I have already said, at least Cam is funny sometimes.

            I find what you believe to be your debating skills is actually just a surreal ego trip.

            Try to stop tripping over your pouted lip & maybe others will take you more seriously.

            • Niall Walker

              ” Thank you for the sarcasm, ”

              I respond in kind, I also don’t comment on posts that bore me, not sure why you do,.

      • Monti

        Niall do you think if the British & American forces invade & murder tens & tens of thousands if Innocents, like the ‘shock & awe’ tactics deployed in Iraq did, would you say this makes Britain & America more susceptible to terrorist attacks domestically? I do.
        When the twin towers were attacked 3,000 were killed ( still find the footage of that incredible) In Iraq on the first few nights of shock & awe, tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis were killed, now I ask you who is the terrorist?

        • Niall Walker

          Monti,

          9/11 made everyone in the West realize we are MORE susceptible to terrorist attacks, this attack was more than enough to signal a change of tactic, the subsequent invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were an attempt to limit the damage of future attacks, and in this enterprise it succeeded. I sympathize with all the victims of terrorism, and that includes the disproportionate number of innocents killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

          • Monti

            So do you agree the shock & awe ‘tactics’ were an act of terrorism?

            • Niall Walker

              Monti,

              I think that is an understatement, we declared war on them out of fear of what might happen, I am not saying the fear was not justified but the response was too excessive and arbitrary for my liking. Invading a country without sufficient cause is an act of terrorism, some say there was sufficient cause but in my opinion not, a more targeted response would have avoided killed thousands of innocents and creating thousands of recruits worldwide.
              Americans have a different mindset than us, a superpower sees no wrong in using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, they see no moral dilemma in ending the lives of innocents to protect their lives. I thought we were different but Tony Blair does not share our Scots-Irish-Christian-Burns empathy.

        • BB

          The twin towers came first. Unprovoked mass murder.

          • BB
            by there own people yes the government
            have you read about it TONY BLAIR also
            gave a hand SWINE

          • Martin

            BB

            This didn’t start in 2001.

            The six-day war is the catalyst for today’s problems.

            The US armed and continue to arm Israel with the most sophisticated weapons in the world.

            They use those weapons not to defend themselves but to oppress.

      • Paul

        @Niall
        No-one is assuming this a rangers connection only pointing out for too long certain people have been praising guys as knights and saviours.Would be interesting however to make the connection as to how money can be funneled out of certain businesses into the pockets of the guys running the business.Stop been suspicious these are good stories and good for education purposes. If we tolerate this then our children will be next sort of thing.

        • Niall Walker

          Paul,

          Do you accept that all businessman will have behaved as a spiv at some point in their life, and it is safe to assume businessman and spivs swim in the same circles.
          I have no problems with businessman buying assets and protecting these assets by keeping them out of harm’s way, there is nothing in the Rangers takeover that reeks of a planned conspiracy.If no one absconds with the 20 million then who cares ?

      • That will be like the time you concluded that RFC 1872’s CVA failed due to the BTC result, although the BTC result did not happen until 5 months later, is that the sort of thing your talking about ?

        • Niall Walker

          coatbrig,

          I do not appreciate you intentionally misinterpreting my post, for the last time, in my opinion the CVA was rejected because the BTC was still ongoing,. had the BTC been resolved in favor of HMRC and against Rangers then the biggest obstacle to the CVA would have been removed.
          The point I obviously failed to express correctly is this, for a long period Celtic fans believed the BTC result would lead to the death of Rangers, my argument is ironically it was the appeal and the lack of a result that caused the death of Rangers. The subsequent fact they won the appeal makes this doubly ironic, in other words you were all wrong on both counts, now how you can believe a genius of my intellect is going to state the CVA failed because of a Rangers successful appeal is beyond me, it makes no sense. I t is obvious to me but not you that I was referring to the BTC appeal causing them to be liquidated not the result.

          • Paul

            @Niall
            There was never any room for a CVA in this process if you have a club who are about to go into dispute/debate over a Tax Case and that same club (hindsight) goes into admin over further tax cases, it is 100% that the tax man will agree to nothing.You have to understand that as far the Tax Man is concerned he will not be stuffed twice even though it still has to go through the legals.CW would have understood this and remember during this time it was the same club, the next best move would be to secure the assets;,enter admin/liquidation stall with CVA;s etc and get the club for a song at the same time shed the debts.
            Effectively the only way to do this in business is to kill the company through liquidation and introduce the buyer’s market where a buyer is found.
            CW and his front man CG understand this all too perfectly well and as you have said business men care not where the money is made and how. This is why (like Comet the company died) we are seeing a lookalike business.You cannot under Company law have a new company which resembles anything like the old company, You know this fact.
            To be able to do otherwise would be an affront to creditors.Rangers can argue till they are blue in the face that the club and company are separate entities, not true the company took on the running of the club promising all debts and wages to be paid through legal means. The company and club become one in the same hence the PLC logo attached to the name.Show me a club that can sustain a modern business model without a company moniker been attached to it?
            This is true also of Celtic from Walfrid to Fergus the club became a legal business entity. If rangers had been sold as a going concern they would not have reached liquidation status,they would have been bought and secured.
            The name would have stayed the same and debts would have been paid this is the difference with a going concern creditors are giving back something either in full or part payment for their troubles.The club you talk about and defend are dead (liquidated it only has one meaning in business law) and the only people interested in keeping up the lie is the people with a vested interest who know there is still gold to be extracted from this lie. Rangers fans understandably want to defend this history as for generations and years it has been their life and spivs understand this mentality and are only too willing to exploit it,
            So would you if you knew people were queuing up at your door to give you money for nothing.The rangers (sevco) fans have to wake up and stop giving away their money or forever be mocked by all other fans and public who know the truth and kill themselves laughing every time the argument arises.

  2. Cam – put the glue down and stop sniffing – now I know it hurts you to admit it, but this makes much more sense to everyone that CF is helping expose the corporate shenanigans going on over at Ibrokes than the logic used by your fellow peepil getting all upset about a flag with Island CSC and thinking it is somehow supporting murderers of a British soldier. I blame the schools myself!!!

  3. SairFecht

    Charlie certainly looks the part with the black-collared grey coat the spivs wear at the race-tracks. Mibbis he was in on the horse-meat trade – he certainly brought in a few donkeys in his short time at Ibrox.

  4. Keep it up, ecojon, although completely dizzy with who knows what about whom, I find it fascinating. One thing about this bluenose collapse is that I, and many others I suppose, had no idea that there were so many people getting free rides for being less than competent in the financial/business sector.. If at first you don’t succeed raise more capital and piss that into the wind once you’ve taken your whack.

  5. Budweiser

    ecojon.

    Surprised that he didn’t bring John Paul on board at rangers – he would have fitted in nicely at Ibrox – imagine the introductions !

  6. mick

    there was me thinking the holmesdownstud.com was part of the baxendale walker porn empire:-) lol nice read ecojon great to see some1 taken the mantle with the info Charlotte has provided us thanks to all your efforts last year we can instantly regonise the most of the company’s blue-pitch mageritia and so on so any post on the new1s is gladly welcome and of great necessity for us to keep up with the story and have insight to it when mentioned ,

    going of topic well done to niel and the bhoys yesterday for a wonderful match and a big special well done to the hibees for such a sporting contribution if only all soccer matches were played with such a friendly environment and atmosphere hail hail glasgows green and white

  7. weegie

    Did Mr Green disclose this connection in the listing document?

  8. joratim

    Cam is now in deep denial.

    Thought a number of weeks past that he was losing the plot.

    He,(or could be She) has now lost it completely.

    Could be that the magnicient result yesterday has put, (he or she) has pushed (he or she) over the edge.

    Just like to say that I have real compassion for those who like (him/her) who suffer from this dreadful condition .(denial).

    Would like to offer up the 5 Sorrowful Mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary for him, but he/she have had enough sorrow,.

  9. mick

    the fact cam gets his news here is a job well done to the site host and posters cam knows deep down there is wrong doing going on and the msm are covering it up and the sevco sites so for this reason cam is the cleverest out of all the bears it would be good if more of cams types could join us then this way we could have a joint effort at making the msm tell the truth and do proper jorno work ,cam is a hard working grafter and deserves better from the media with out the bampots his hard earned cash would be fleeced from him without a bat of an eye so its vital his views and stance is included and that the good fight includes him all our other resident bears

  10. mick

    if sevco scotland in future is to die and the assets split with spivs should we be looking to creat a new rfc like Wimbledon dons who is going to take the lead on this and stop the bears being robbed and also the spivs conning them the more division the more they can rob them when it gos breasts up celtic should take the lead in helping them creat a fans owned club this could bridge gaps and creat a whole new land scape for the future with hampen closing for the commen wealth games we could rent the new team our stadium and help them creat a new team owned by fans it seems far fetched but its the only way other than this sernario there doomed as we all know its about to sink over at ibrokes due to a lack of fit and proper testing if dermond desmond wants them back he will have to sort it out for them other than this it is heading for a third larnark situ

    • barcabuster

      @Mick
      The sentiments in your last 2 comments are to be commended mate.

      • mick

        thanks barca bampotterys for all and doesn’t do exclusion thats what makes it better than msm also on the fleecing the bears issue we need a bampottery committee to offer solutions to creat new club for bears that want change

  11. barcabuster

    @Ecojon.
    Your efforts are appreciated mate.
    Joining the dots will eventually draw a wee picture, and I don’t think it will be a cuddly wee teddy bear playing a drum the Sevconians are hoping for. With every new connection, it looks more like a big scary monster, and no wonder that Cam is peeking throughhhis fingers.
    Your discovery does also add credible authenticity to Charlotte, maybe as yet, not to email content, but certainly confirms the connection between sender and receiver.

    • ecojon

      @ barcabuster

      I hate to torture cameo – Honestly 🙂

      But I am looking at a few similar things in the CF material just trying to see where they lead and what it discloses about the actual material in terms of authenticity.

      As to motive I decided to stop trying to figure that out as it was preventing me actually thinking about whether the documents were genuine or not.

      But I was quite delighted that following the CF stuff took me back to offshore material on Green which I don’t think had been previously spotted. So CF is helping with missing bits of the jigsaw.

  12. mick

    http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/misread-achill-celtic-supporters-flag-causes-quite-a-stir-after-being-mistaken-for-islamic-banner-0038269-1

    soz for going of topic but seen lots of mention of Islam and celtic and the edl calling us scum how silly are these people we all know once the clear islam out it would be those timmy irish next ,

  13. BB

    A poor 90 minutes against St Mirren aside, and Celtic have just had their best season since 1967 (apparently) but guess what…it’s STILL all about the Rangers :-). No wonder Lenny can’t get shot of that chip on his shoulder….and all the while the window of opportunity to win that elusive managerial treble gets smaller, and smaller…..chortle chortle…

    • Niall Walker

      There are some on here who will never be satisfied until Celtic get 10 years of sporting advantage over Rangers, all in the name of fairness of course.

      Unlike the Emperor they are not quite naked, but the veil of justice is transparent and slipping.

      • no need

        rangers are bust

      • Niall,

        More Surreal utterings from your good self.

        What Sporting advantage has Celtic been given over THE Rangers? Who gave it to them & when exactly was it given?

        Why is the veil of justice slipping in relation to Celtic?

        I know it slipped with the non application of the Rules, several times, in the favour of RFC(IL) & more recently to allow the Sevco Project gain admission into the 3rd Division, against the Rules,, but for the loss of me I can’t think of any application of a Rule in Celtic’s favour..Please explain this for me.

        What relationship is there between Celtic & their Club performance on & off the field in The SPL & the Conduct of THE Rangers,on & off the field. in the THIRD Division of a completely separate League set up IE The SFL?

        • Niall Walker

          Paul,

          Removing your ONLY rival for 10 years is a sporting advantage of huge proportions, Rangers have been punished but you don’t like the punishment, you genuinely believe this is out of some sort of justice, but its not really, its just your cognitive bias, you want Rangers more crippled because it gives you a bigger sporting advantage, nothing to do with fairness.

          I believe the punishments are fair, you don’t, they didn’t pay their taxes and a transfer ban, their arrogant and bigoted fans got punished by the fans of the SPL, they refused them re-entry. Craig Whyte got punished to the tune of 18 million and a possible fraud charge and SDM has had his reputation ruined by all this fiasco.

      • KMac

        “Unlike the Emperor they are not quite naked, but the veil of justice is transparent and slipping.”
        – I thought Barbara Cartland was dead?

      • Paul

        True colours Niall again.Not really the guy who has knowledge to enlighten us just a troll pretending to be neutral.Was it not SDM who was the naked emperor until someone pointed out Ma i can see that mans wullie.

    • mark

      Wat managerial treble is ally going for?

      Get kicked out of a boozer for being steaming
      Do the Harry’s challenge
      Pump 2 skanks picked up from Victoria’s

      In the same day? Must be as his football management achievements are definitely not a patch on Neil’s.

      Chortle chortle

    • Jamie

      As opposed to a extremely poor season watching the tribute act getting humped by everyone bar Motherwell….Yeah its still about the sevco cause your providing so much to laugh at…keep up the good work dafty 🙂

      • joratim

        Must have been the devil,s answer to the “Black Mass” said in the Stadium which nobody knows who owns it.

        First prayer offered up was that the Hibees would win. Satan did not have that power:

        But he has given them some hope

        The Guardian of HELL has stopped M’Call from leaving the Sevco reserves. This gives hope to them (Sevco) of meeting their greatest supporters in 2 cups.

        Would mean an easy way into the next round.

        Has M’Call ever won a game either as player or manager against those who are noe extinct?

    • Ed Paisley

      @BB
      That is nice of you to commend Celtic FC for a great season – Champions League last sixteen and the SPL/Scottish Cup double. It takes a true sportsman to do that.
      Let me reply with in a similarly generous way and congratulate The Rangers on winning the fourth tier championship. Well done Ally and the players.

      • Ed I would have agreed it was a good Inaugural Season for THE Rangers except for the fact that the Spivs in their Boardroom brought Football & The Shiny New Club into disrepute.

  14. mick

    we dont have chips on our shoulders were to universial and open minded and selfaware for that ya clown

    • barcabuster

      @Mick.
      Commended again.!

    • mark

      Come on now Mick, don’t you know we’re not allowed to talk about any of the rangers? You might think its funny and having a good laugh but it really just shows our obsession up for what it is. I mean, you’d never catch a the rangers supporter posting on sites full of Celtic supporters or scanning a crowd at a football game just itching to find something they could be offended by?

      I mean, I quite liked east 17 at the time so obviously I was never allowed to talk about or listen to take that. Obviously, as that would mean I was obsessed

      • mick

        @mark the obsessed tag was made by jabba how any1 can still use it is beyond me after the letters put up by Charlotte proving it was all pr to con the bears obsessed rangers haters are harming our club hay wait a minute what about the self interest msm and all the spivs telling lies pulling the wool over there eyes playing the bigotry card to sell season tickets there lowness holds no depths and finally the average bear that is not head in the sand is seeing right throw them now so its job well done to the bampots amongst this tainted product that is newco there is some fans that see it for what it is but they lack a voice so it is up to our academics to creat some noise for them and solutions its a big ask but if all of scotland puts it mind to it it is possible its time for scotland to get rid of of the bad bits and save the good in it

        • Niall Walker

          mick,

          Charlotte’s letters are not proof of anything until they are verified.

          • mark

            Verified, there’s an interesting word. That would suggest a journalist investigating and outing Charlotte as a fraud, or otherwise.

            What we’ve witnessed so far is a distinct lack of willingness to acknowledge this material, let alone probe it’s veracity.

            • cam

              Possibly due to the fact that the wee sleekit cowerin timorous beastie behind it ,isn’t worth the scrapings off a farmers boot.
              Sweetie wifing and tittle tattle ,,,its the Celtic way.
              Have the courage of their convictions and take it to the police,the press the courts,,,,nah, i’ll dish it out to a bunch of weirdo’s to gossip about!

            • Bill

              I think we’ll find that Charlotte is a journalist but the material is dodgy and cant be used legally .

          • mick

            dont worry denial thommos doing that just now lol ch4 are you going to call them liars like us bampots lol

            • Bill

              If he could he would have done it by now.

            • ecojon

              @Bill

              Not sure that the timing is affected by whether the documents are legit or not. I think the timing has more to do with other agendas which might be getting called by Whyte or other parties. It could well be coming from
              Rangers Men who want to collapse the club and buy it on the cheap.

              It might be to get it past the date Green is out the door and off the board – I think that’s 31 May. Perhaps at that point there will be a decision to pay Whyte off. But who knows?

              That’s the real problem for Rangers and has been for a considerable time – the fans haven’t a clue what’s going on and those on the board who do know are at each other’s throats.

            • Ecojon,

              I think you are right.

              Too many Ex-RFC(IL) Fans are clinging to Green because all their eggs are in that basket.

              Both He & his cohorts & Whyte & his are Spivs.

              The best way out is bite the bullet, get rid of the con men & restart in an Honest Fashion, whatever it costs.

              Maybe next time a bit of Honesty will get a bit of Sympathy.

          • Niall,

            is it not a Debate? If not, it is a Discussion at least..

            Within the ongoing Discussion Mick has added his viewpoint, you have added yours.

            Funny thing is You insist your interpretation is factual on several occasions without proof.

            As an example you insist that Sevco 5088 had no input into the purchase of the RFC(IL) assets, despite An OFFICIAL Rangers Statement saying that they did & then transferred them to Sevco Scotland.

            Why should Your opinion outweigh an OFFICIAL Rangers Statement or the opinion of Mick, for that matter?

            Why must we await proof if it is anti THE Rangers but should just accept it if it is a Pro sentiment?.

            • Niall Walker

              Ian,

              I am stating the most recent evidence, it was shown the assets were purchased by Sevco( Scotand) not Sevco 5088, don’t know quite where you are coming from, is everyone lying just because you say so.

            • No Niall,

              I am saying that you prefer your own version of events & I don’t.

              Is that not what a debate should be about? Find a common point of agreement & discuss the rest.

              I asked you to present Evidence to support your stance, not just opinion.

              I am saying SOMEONE within the set up of Rangers is lying or Several are maybe.

              The Official statement said Sevco 5088 Bought the RFC assets & transferred then to Sevco Scotland at a later date.,

              Green later said only Sevco Scotland had been used, that he had never used Sevco 5088 & OFFERED to give Sevco 5088 Back to Whyte.

              By April The Rangers claimed Sevco 5088 as one of IT’s Companies & listed it as so but denied that Sevco 5088. was used, as they had originally stated as the vehicle for the purchase of RFC assets.. Why this change? First 5088 were categorically the vehicle of purchase for the assets, then they were not.

              I originally said that Sevco 5088 was the recognised vehicle for the purchase of the RFC assets & according to D&P this was set in stone.
              .
              Where is the evidence to overturn this?

              If Sevco 5088 had Directors as claimed, Earley, Whyte & Green, then Green did not have a Quorum to legally transfer the assets to Sevco Scotland from Sevco 5088, if the Original Rangers Official Statement is accurate he must have done this.illegally.

              If Green’s statement is true & the assets were bought by Sevco Scotland then that would go against the stated fact that ONLY Sevco 5088 were entitled to do so & against the majority of Sevco 5088 Directors wishes.,

              How can that purchase be legal?

              The third element is D&P involvement with Charles Green.

              D&P accepted Green onto the Team dealing with the transfer of the assets, in effect Green represented SECVO & RFC(IA). Did he simply pull a flanker & sell to Sevco Scotland against the rights of Sevco 5088?

              To D&P, ANY Sevco would be Sevco & Green represented Sevco so no problem as far as they were concerned in the 5088/Scotland issue, in fact I doubt it was an issue at that point, it only became a problem when Whyte became active.

              A big point is made in the MSM about Whyte being a proven liar..

              In short Niall, I am saying those who represented The Sevco Companies have ALL lied, so why should Green’s lies be preferred to Whyte’s lies without proof… Especially since he admits he set out to screw Whyte & lied to him in their dealings? .

          • Jas

            Verified mmmm i see none of the names on any of the documents have declared them as forgeries some large law firms included……

    • BB

      ‘Tainted titles’ not my words Michelle, you’re manager’s…not asked for but offered. ‘Scotland’s second (???) biggest club’.again….:-). You guys are only taking the lead from you’re gaffer I suppose so fair do’s, it really is all about the Rangers 🙂

      • mark

        There’s a stunner, deluded sevconian reads story and totally misinterprets it to suit his own agenda.

        Shockeroony

        • BB

          No. Merely pointing out the facts. This is a nothing story plucked out the ether. It’s also the timing. Just can’t get enough? You’re not kidding. It will never be enough. Not as long as the boys in royal blue are on the park.. Celtic have just won the double. It matters not Celtic could win the treble, the champions league, the boat race, britain’s got talent. ….you’ll never really enjoy it. Not ‘really’. Not when the blue gates remain open and the union flag flutters over the majestic red bricked facade. What a shame.

          • mark

            Apologies, how could I forget.
            You are the people, it’s all about the rangers, you’re up to your knees in Fenian blood, it’s old and etc etc

            We’re really anti-the rangers rather than pro-Celtic, I suppose all those parties and huddles in the street yesterday were imagined? Not imagined like ‘lets scan the crowd at Hampden without blinking till we can find something to be offended at’ but really imagined.

            You mob are hilarious. Thanks, do keep it coming.

          • Jamie

            You forgot asbestos infested…and I’m happy for the gates to remain open and see yer fleg fluttering…should be at half mast though in remembrance of the big shiney cup you’ll never win…you know the one…the one that killed your club…what a shame!

      • BB,

        You completely miss the point. It IS all about Rangers, but in a negative way.

        It is about Rangers in Disgrace…When RFC(IL) went we thought we would never see their like again…

        How wrong we were, along came the Sevco Project leaking spivs at every turn & once more we were transfixed by the cheating coming from down Ibrox way.. THE Rangers were as bad as the Original..

        If ever a tainted title has been won, it is the THIRD Division one that THE Rangers gained in their Inaugural Season.

        Full Time players on SPL salaries, playing the WORST Football ever against Part Timers & Moaning all season long.

        IF Football is about Integrity then THE Rangers are failing as badly as RFC(IL) did & it is no ones fault but their own.

        Celtic have conducted their business with Honesty & Integrity on & off the field of play. They have built a Team, no a SQUAD from unknown players & reached the last 16 in the CL, won a Domestic Double, with a Management/Coaching staff who are growing into the job, & Traded profitably in what was to be The Armageddon Year.

        As I sit writing this I KNOW which Fans are the Happiest, so keep on whining BB, it suits you..

        • BB

          Yeah. Celtic have enjoyed a good season. You still can’t enjoy without looking over at the Rangers though Obsessing over them in fact. So there’s a power struggle on with some businesmen. Some with colourful pasts. DD has a very colourful present but you’re not interested in that. Again. It’s all about the Rangers 🙂

          • Ian403

            No BB, like I already said, it is about The Spivs who bought RFC(IL) assets, nothing to do with Rangers at all.

  15. bellabhoy
    in one of my posts I wrote about how the internet was such a wonderful
    thing and all the information that can be obtained about everything you every needed to know was at your finger tip if you could use it correctly
    and was almost impossible to get rid of once on the net not much room for
    liars and cheats except for the SFA & RANGERS when it comes to cover up
    oh we did not read it that way or was it not to be taken that way blah blah blah this report about {holmedownstud.com} is truely winner please
    please keep up the great work so that everyone can enjoy even you
    Cam that does not bother with such PISH but was the first to be right on the ball with your reply GLAD YOU GOT THE RIGHT RESULT YESTERDAY
    HAIL HAIL THE PROUD BELLABHOY I hope the SFA get to read the post
    not this one (the one about holmedownstud.com)

  16. dan

    Eco, nice post. My only reservation was your reference to someone called ‘John Paul’. Are you trying to drive the Sevconians nuts, you cruel man? My goodness, even the Man from Methil got up on his hind legs.

  17. Ed Paisley

    @ecojon
    You should have been a forensic accountant eco. That is amazing work.

    It says somewhere in the Bible that you shall know a man by the company he keeps, and Chico is pally with fine collection of upstanding citizens.

    Some on here would say – that’s business, entrepreneurs are not required to exhibit moral rectitude, just a nose for money. Well fine, I’m sure Chico and JP Fraser made a nice killing on their share options in Panceltica, meanwhile the AIM investors, and no doubt many other other innocent creditors were stiffed. Good work fellas -and appointing your son-in-law as C.O.O is a genuine masterstroke – you’ve gotta watch out for the scourge of nepotism.

    As for William Fatherley’s CV, I have a little sympathy because we all tell whoppers on our CVs don’t we? I’ve seen cam’s CV on LinkedIn where he says he has a doctorate in Comparative International Law. Well I did a little research and I found out he only has a BTech Certificate in Hairdressing from Cardonald College. Originally they were going to withhold it because cam was completely bald by the time he was 19 years old (Alopecia Nervosa).

    • SairFecht

      That’ll be why he ended up polishing Belisha beacons.

    • cam

      Tedward,,,if you think that this post is amazing then i can only assume that you have spent many an hour looking at the BBC test card and seeing the Mona Lisa.
      My doctorate is from the University of Sao Paulo and is in the study of Ethnic Minorities,feelings of inadequacy and not changing your underpants every day.
      Now if you want me to reset your cerebral cortex stand at Paisley cross and stick your napper out when you see a cooncil van being driven by a maniac in a hi-vis sash.
      nite nite

      • joratim

        Thought you told us earler that you were going to work.

        Must be a great job.

        Any chance you might talk for me to assist you?

        When you go to the toilet or have a tea break, I could do your replies.

        Seems as though that is the only time you do anything other than blog on this site.

        At least you have the intellect to realise that you are climbing up the ladder of those superior in mind to those you knew before.

        Welcome to the world of superior beings.

  18. Niall Walker

    I too would like to indulge in a bit of dot joining to see if I can fathom the mind of Craig Whyte in buying Rangers, and I would like to use just one variable to see if it reveals anything.

    Let us assume Rangers in 2011-12 reached the group stages of the CL, and like the previous year made a profit of 10 million, would it have made any difference ?
    It might have but CW borrowed approx half of the next 3 years ticket sales to buy the company, so between the 4 million HMRC debt and the Ticketus payment it would have broke even at best, with 2 more seasons to go of Ticketus debt. Since the EBT case was going to drag on ad infinitum or cost Rangers a fortune, any cash investment would be unlikely, especially from CW.
    So what was his plan for 2012 onwards, even with CL revenue Rangers would still lose about 6 million and they have no overdraft or loan facilities ?
    Was his plan to sell players and cut wages in Jan 2012 onward to raise 6 million, and cut the wage bill for the foreseeable future by 6 million per year ?
    Well the problem with this is reduces the chances of CL revenue incurring further losses of 10 million, not to mention a potential decrease in ticket revenue. So in effect by borrowing advance ticket revenue he has made it essential for Rangers to cut their wage bill by 16 million to break even in their domestic market.
    16 million is most if not all of the first team, which kinda knocks Europe on the head and face the outrage of your customer base, it also leaves no profit to negotiate annual payments for the BTC sum.

    So in my opinion, it wasn’t Ally bombing out of the CL that sealed Rangers fate, it was CW using advance income to buy the club, and if SDM knew of this then both he and CW knew Rangers would be liquidated in some form( CVA or sale) regardless of CL success. What CL exist did do was reduce the chances of a CVA through the actions of CW, although in hindsight an unresolved BTC was probably sufficient cause for rejection.
    CW stated he should have picked up the phone in October and the reason he may have delayed was in the hope of a BTC result in his favor, but it came far too late.

    None of the above leads me to believe CW was on top of anything once he took over, it was a runaway train that had to crash, the only question was when and how..

    • Cregganduff

      ” it was a runaway train that had to crash,”

      No shit Sherlock?

      • Niall Walker

        According to some conspiracy nutters on here, there was no train crash, it was a very clever orchestrated liquidation, but then the evidence says otherwise.

        • Raymilland

          SDM is Casey Jones (the Great Engineer)

          The original Casey Jones was killed in a train wreck, he was hailed as a hero due to his actions saving the lives of his passengers.

          Are there any heroes aboard the Broomloan Express?

    • Ed Paisley

      @Niall
      Then we can all agree that liquidation was a near certainty when SDM gave Rangers to Sir Craig Whyte (oops I prematurely enobled our Craig there).

      Is there a chance that SDM genuinely believed Whyte was a multi-millionaire who was going to pay off the £18m bank debt and provide the £5m a year to support working capital requirements and £x for stadium improvements? Leaving aside the potential BTC liability. SDM said “I was duped, my bankers were duped and the shareholders were duped” Oh really?

      I’m convinced SDM knew all about Whyte’s scheme but he desperately needed to offload Rangers; he just didn’t want to be part of the inevitable liquidation and the close scrutiny that would have drawn to his dubious business practices (principally his relationship with HBOS) . Where is SDM now? He is completely out of the frame; wee Craigy is the man in fear for his life being tracked by Carlos the Greek.

      SDM is the man who brought the EBT scheme to Rangers. SDM is the man who saddled Rangers with the crippling business model and refused to pair down the costs even when the wolf was at the door.

      Sir David Murray caused the disease. Craig Whyte was a symptom. Death was the inevitable result.

      • ed
        do they really forget what that low life SDM did to that club
        him and only him end of RANGERS he could not face the FANnies
        fuckin coward still manages to keep out the press they are fannies to
        karma what goes round comes round may his companies fail
        oh they have sorry about the tax & banks ah fuck the lot of them

      • Niall Walker

        Ed,

        If SDM knew how CW was financing the purchase then he must have known it was economic suicide to reduce Rangers revenue streams by 6 million per year. Even without this knowledge he knew no sane businessman is going to plow untold millions into a company facing crippling liabilities.

        Given these two factors it seems inconceivable he did not know the end result would be a form of liquidation, but he did not care, he couldn’t afford a CL exit and he certainly could not afford the BTC liabilities.

        Rangers could not slash their wages when their debts were so large, they needed the CL profit to reduce the debt, once the debt became manageable then a few more years of wage reduction( maybe 5 million per year) could have done the trick, but they ran out of time.

        Its difficult to point the blame at fan expectations, SDM fed his own ego and after the crash couldn’t reduce his large debt without CL profits, he was in effect forced to carry on gambling for survival, the BTC was the final straw.

    • honest johm

      Only time and a raft of court cases, some of them criminal, will shed light on all that’s really gone on.
      But as far as Craig Whytes motives we can only wait and see.
      Just let everyone rejoice that cameth the hour cameth the man.
      God bless him for all he has done…..forever
      in our prayers.
      G.B.C.W.

    • Niall,

      I broadly agree.

      I think Whyte expected the CL income & a Quick adverse result in the FTT,.

      This would have allowed him to move into Administration & onto the plan which he claims D&P let him down over., It would also allow him to blame others & claim hero status when he saved the assets from HMRC, even if RFC went into Liquidation.

      If memory serves me well, he put a maximum he was willing to pay to save RFC, there was also the statement that there would always be a team playing in Rangers colours at Ibrox.,

      I think it became a runaway train because he was not only out of his depth but under Public Scrutiny in a way he never expected.

      He went from a Billionaire with wealth off the map to a chancer in a very short space of time with everyone watching his every move.

  19. mick

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/odd/misread-celtic-flag-sparks-edl-anti-islam-response-1-2945656

    halal halal the celts are here even if it was Islam roman catholic protestant jews or any faith celtic is for all faiths and creeds and kinds why the big deal with these moronic racists keeping up there anti irish agenda thats what am thinking ,wait to they listen to tommy gold platinum he fronts the finian Taliban lol god these people ott to get a life

    • BB

      Mick. You STILL going on about the Rangers? Surely not! Right, that’s a cup won, now, let’s get back to where it’s really at. Yes! The Rangers! A psychologist would have a field day-Seriously.

      • mick

        bb sevco is the only comical show in town its sad it has come to this as not all sevcoians are nutcases were here for a break away club any time the genuine fans want its the only sport story thats why its most spoke about and with yous use to being 1 of the big 2 thats why its so gripping were not obsessed that was jabba that said that to sell tickets for green and whyte wake up and smell the napham sevco is on the brink of being a tesco you might not like the articles and find them critical due to your hyper sensitivity brought on by 10 years of propaganda by msm making you deluded but there is lots of oldco fans who read them and want change the only thing stopping it is people like you and jabba were here forever and after the LNS guilty verdict to right its a gold fish bowl and you know it so join in and prove us wrong be nice and some sort of rfc might exist at end of this

  20. carson
    as I said there are no cover ups on the net its all true
    Rangers are dead and soon to be SFA I hope when we supporters of football have learned by there mistakes never to let a so called football
    team like rangers to have policies that they have since the begining it
    is a total disgrace and always will be to the good people of SCOTLAND
    and still the SFA bend over backwards changing the rules
    just what are the chances of honesty when this is still happening
    2013 Come on let me know how you never cheated or had the rules bent
    also your mate cammy said if you have proof take it to the authorities(police) and let them take action neil lennon did it after he was attack on a football park in front of camera we are still waiting
    HAIL HAIL YA FUCKIN BIGOT TROLL ARSEHOLE
    come on now put them up arsehole

  21. Brother Louis

    A quick internet search shows Holme Down Stud as being Exeter. Does that take us anywhere (probably not). Oh well, there goes two minutes of my life I won’t get back …

    • ecojon

      @Brother Louis

      Yes Holme Down is in that neck of the woods but as Green has moved on and I felt I had more than established the possibility of his link to the email address in the CF document I didn’t include it as sometimes I’ve got to do real work 😦

      But thanks for having a look!

  22. dan

    Niall, unless I’ve missed something, the last I heard was that Sevco’s investigation into itself, was about to declare itself squeaky clean viz Chico and Saint Craigie. Then I hear that the investigators only looked at ‘evidence’ provided by Sevco, and not the Sainted One—admittedly, his choice. So, until we get both sides of the story–and not from Charlotte, entertaining as she is—- it’s a case of wait and see.

    What I will say is this. If I was Saint Craigie, I would not have cooperated with the investigation. And why not?
    (1) Even if I had smoking gun evidence, what would I achieve by presenting it at this stage? The lights go out on Sevco, and I find myself owner (or part owner) of assets worth just north of 5 Mil? But——
    (2) If I have the killer info, and I play a long game in which I let Sevco know I’m holding the aces-in-the-hole, (maybe through Charlotte, as Sevco have to know what’s gen and what’s not in those posts) I can extract a helluva lot more from them as they try to rebuild over the long term, with the constant threat of my ‘revelations’ being put in the public arena and sinking them once and for all.

    Pure speculation, I admit, but, you never know.

    • Niall Walker

      dan,

      The total shambles of an exit strategy tells me the end of Rangers came sooner than Walter Mitty intended, and his failure to properly secure his floating charge made a nonsense of all of his plans. His last ditch attempt to get something out of Rangers is a futile gesture at damage limitation, whatever he hopes to get will never make up for his Ticketus liability.

      Brokers of deals do not get a bigger shareholding than the money men, brokers get a small share for their efforts, they do not own assets others have paid for.

  23. mick

    lol at broony with a pint lol bit of drum and base to well sound

  24. Monti

    Is it foggy outside or is it copious amounts of Stella Artois?
    Ice cream & Jelly mixed with the Stella Artois in my belly is making my belly rumble & rumble :)…..so happy tonight, I feel like Marvin gate on Viagra…..let’s get it on…:)

  25. mick

    lol its so good to be a tim its only going to get better as the seasons go on what we have to watch out for is all the partying and ice cream we dont end up like big orcs lol halal halal the Fenian Taliban are here lol

  26. Wonder if Chico the clown took John Paul with him to the sleazy bigot infested dens in his world tour of Norn Iron.
    Now that would have been funnier than saying John Daly will ever play for Spivco in Division 2 ey?

  27. charliedon

    @Niall
    Re your post at 7.34pm above concerning Craig Whyte’s motives in buying Rangers. Is it not the case that all of Whyte’s previous “business” experience lay in the area of taking over failing companies, asset stripping and liquidating them? As far as I can see he has never operated an ongoing successful company. I would suggest this tells us what his motives were, irrespective of the CL success or otherwise. Some of the documentation put forward by Charlotte, if it proves to be genuine, also suggests this was his purpose from the outset.

    • Niall Walker

      charlie,

      Trying to read this guys mind is not easy, he was like a rabbit in the headlights with the publicity, in my view it wasn’t that he intended to liquidate Rangers, more that he would have a bash at a no risk salvage job.
      Asset strippers look at business from a sightly different angle, their energies are spent making sure they cannot lose with any gamble, rather than a more positive stye aimed at solving the problems. This bias is obvious in his business plan, it was all designed around him not losing, instead of seeing the 6 million per year as a negative, he saw the Ticketus loan as a very positive one for him.

      I believe he thought it was likely even with CL success and certain without it, he had no intention of putting his own money in either scenario. To be honest CW sees HMRC as an enemy, as soon as Rangers exited CL, he thought in for a penny in for a pound, the BTC was 45 million what is another 4 to 12 million added to the creditor list. He was after all under the delusion that his 18 million was protected by a floating charge, that gets paid before HMRC.

      • Niall Walker

        Craig Whyte’s strategy needed 3 years of CL success, winning the BTC and reducing wages by 6 million, no wonder he did not want to put a dime of his own in.

  28. Steven brennqn

    Maggie
    I just had a wee cruise down the Danube with Jenny,
    Missed the league final but some things are more important,
    I am fed up with the same old crap on here,
    Get a life guys!,!!?
    Oh and by the way its midnight on monday and I have just found out Celtic won.
    hH

  29. mick

    just over on the bearsden they have a thread “i smell you micky “live from the Glaswegian dead just like the rfc haha

    giruy ya scum micks rule and pay there taxes michael really is a thorn on this scums side haha “My heart it skips a beat, when I feel my feet upon your paish face”dirty tramp trailer trash your pub died and so did your club halal halal mon the Michael s

  30. charliedon

    @Niall
    I agree with what you say.

    On a general note, some folk are pouring scorn on ecojon’s painstaking investigations into Charlie Green & co’s business dealings. Don’t count me in on that. Forget for a moment that it’s Rangers that are the centre of this current scenario, the one thing that interests me more than anything on this blog is the insight we have gained into the shady operations of these spivs. Whether you are fans of Rangers, Celtic or whoever, it should concern us all. These guys are spivs and should be exposed. They are a plague on society in general. Even after the Rangers saga is settled, I hope Paul McC and ecojon etc continue to spotlight the future activities of Whyte, Green and Ahmad etc.

    It seems these guys are used to conducting their manoeuvres in the shadows. I suspect they have made an error of judgement getting involved with Rangers and exposing themselves to the uncomfortable brightness of the spotlight in the singular environment of the Glasgow goldfish bowl.

    One thing I would dearly like to see is the introduction of legislation to prevent the registering of companies which have no obvious core business or activity. But I’m probably being too simplistic and I’m not holding my breath. However the only purpose I can see in registering one company only to be, e.g. a holding company or a shareholder in other companies etc etc is to confuse and obfuscate. A scam.

    • Niall Walker

      charlie,

      Like all systems that involve humans there will be some who try to abuse the system, there are criminals in every section of society but the majority of businessmen take pride in their contribution to society, no different to anyone else. Turning into a businessman is not like turning into a vampire, most are not bloodsuckers by nature.

      • Most businessmen, will do anything to make sure their business survives,
        the have no qualms about borrowing and running up debts,that are
        unsustainable , causing others to lose money and jobs,
        that’s why we have administration and liquidation laws.

        just like vampires,business men in the mould of SDM,his father, CW & CG will, given the opportunity, suck the life right out of you so that their “business” carries on making money for them and feeding their ego’s

        NEIL you talked earlier of Celtic having no rival, 10 years of advantage,

        Can you remember the hype, Whyte “BILLIONAIRE” the man that was going to finish what SDM started, he was going to bankroll 10 in a row, Celtic and every other club would be resigned to their cannon fodder roles once more, no “BEAR” worried about a SPL one horse race of tainted titles, then the truth came out, Whyte a skint billionaire, SDM took RFC to the brink and Whyte nudged them over the abyss,they died

        as you said earlier, RFC carried so much toxicity a few more £million here or their mattered not a jot

        as for one of the others fighting to get control of Sevco, Dave King, he is on record as saying SDM should have put Celtic to the sword when he had the chance, he (SDM) should have killed off Celtic, as he himself would have done if he was in charge at the time, how about that for trying for a 10 year advantage ?

        • Niall Walker

          coatbrig,

          ” Most businessmen, will do anything to make sure their business survives,the have no qualms about borrowing and running up debts,that are unsustainable , causing others to lose money and jobs,
          that’s why we have administration and liquidation laws. ”

          This comment tells me you have little knowledge of businessman or business, any owner who carries on trading while insolvent is breaking the law, it is an offense that leads to disqualification or worse. Most businessman tend to avoid reckless borrowing since most lenders like security, and losing your house or business assets acts as a deterrent somewhat. Since an employer makes money from the labor of the employees, paying off all the employees is hardly a positive to any owner.
          Businesses get into debt for many reasons, one is ” bad debt ” where your indebtedness is caused by the bad debt of others, the laws are there to limit this damage and assist in any possible recovery, including saving jobs.
          Lets be honest here, no creditor gives his client credit without checking their credit worthiness, and any creditor who traded with Rangers did so knowing full well the risks. The bottom line is a business needs cash to trade, and this cash should come from the debtors, some owners try and borrow their way through downturns and some succeed and some fail, business is a gamble.

          • Niall Walker

            coatbrig,

            There probably is some childish reason why you wish to call me Neil, and as an adult your reason interests me not, grow up.
            Rangers fans wanting a billionaire to create a sporting advantage is not an argument for you wanting Rangers unfairly crippled to achieve the same outcome. Until the SPL puts into place some financial guidelines then there will always be inequality, I don’t hear the rest of the SPL wanting Celtic unfairly crippled to give them a chance, do you ?

            • Niall,
              tell us who was it that crippled RFC 1872, who is it that is crippling Sevco,
              the death of RFC 1872 was NOT an assisted suicide, they cut their own throats,
              the bit that makes me smile is it was not the £millions that sunk RFC 1872 it was a £1. SDM’s act of revenge on those that left him to pick up the £50m shortfall on his slap in the face share issue, this slap in the face sent out a clear signal to the bank that the bears will not step up to the plate, sugar daddies or spives welcome just don’t expect the “fans” to dig deep to save “their club” any spiv will do.

              Ebt’s on an industrial scale to entice players to Ibrox, running up £80m debts, allocated by friends in the bank, debts that get moved away from RFC to other MIH companies,
              How much did RFC 1872 spend to emulate Celtics 9inarow, how much was spent for European failure after failure trying to emulate Celtics European success.

              All that money,yet since the turn of the century, RFC could only scrape a SPL championship by the odd point or two or even only goal difference, only one team ever dominated the SPL, since the year 2000.
              Rangers a BUSINESS run by BUSINESS men ran up massive unsustainable debts, they went into Administration owning £55m.

              no one at IBROX gave a thought to the creditors, to this day not an apology, Walter Myth was demanding that “RANGERS” be allowed to continue after liquidation to play in the SPL for the good of Scottish football, he suggested that “Rangers ” could be made to hand over half it’s gate money to other clubs, as some sort of pay back, not one penny to go to the creditors but gate money could have went to clubs that RFC did not owe money to !!

              if it’s the same club why was Myths idea not put to the creditors, even if it takes 10 years your money will be paid back at 100 p in the £

          • @Neil
            you said
            Businesses get into debt for many reasons, one is ” bad debt ” where your indebtedness is caused by the bad debt of others, the laws are ….

            bad debt of others…others being other business men, therefore administration brought about by vampires/businessmen,

            do you not see that yet again your demolishing your own argument.

            Why was Whyte/RFC 1872 not charged with trading whilst insolvent, he used £14m of tax money to keep the doors open, D&P carried on using that tax money, funny old laws.

            SDM & Whyte were lauded as two of the richest businessmen in Scotland,
            why should people be afraid to do business with RFC 1872, no problems at Ibrox, how often was that reassurance/lie issued ?

          • “This comment tells me you have little knowledge of businessman or business…”

            That would make 2 of you then.

  31. joratim

    Just wee note to Cam

    Never heard from you re being your assistant,

    But I do not need that situation now.

    The bottom tier manager of the year has got there before you.

    Can only say that his offer sold me.

    He said ” joratim, would like you to come aboard, but would only be as a turnstile assistant, know I have a multi million war chest, but I cannot pay you more than than any of our team of superstars, would you be happy to take 100K per week.”

    Told him I would sleep on it, as a better offer might come in.

    Hope you have a nice sleep in .

    Your mate

    joratim.

  32. Niall Walker
    May 27, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    None of the above leads me to believe CW was on top of anything once he took over, it was a runaway train that had to crash, the only question was when and how..
    ******************************************************

    Less than one hour later,

    Niall Walker
    May 27, 2013 at 8:48 pm

    According to some conspiracy nutters on here, there was no train crash, it was a very clever orchestrated liquidation, but then the evidence says otherwise.
    *************************************************

    the train crash was the liquidation of RFC 1872 , it was a fatal crash, although some deny this, many people tried to warn of the disaster that lay ahead, but those that drove the train and those that bought season tickets to ride it,choose to ignore it, some like NIEL keep posting as if it never happened, he starts posts by saying, LETS ASSUME, this or that, the facts disturb him so he wants to ASSUME,
    HE said that the BTC “DEFEAT” was the reason the CVA fail, he has now altered that to a watered down version were he say’s that….

    “although in hindsight an unresolved BTC was probably sufficient cause for rejection”

    NEIL, was £55m of debt, A CVA, offering a few pence in the £, reducing to zero P in the £ once all the legal fights against Whyte drain every penny away from the creditors,was this not enough on it’s own to have the CVA binned.

    The CVA was about debts amounting to £55m, this excluded the big tax case.
    What was going to happen if the CVA was approved, then RFC 1872, history intact, had LOST the big tax case holding RFC 1872 liable for £90m of back tax ?

    • Niall Walker

      coatbrig,

      ” HE said that the BTC “DEFEAT” was the reason the CVA fail, he has now altered that to a watered down version were he say’s that….”

      Put the whole post up and stop editing it for effect, your continual attempts to misrepresent my views SCREAMS weakness and desperation.
      The internet bampots preaching doom and gloom were wrong, the BTC did not bring Rangers down, it was the unresolved nature of the BTC that brought it down, that is my point. If Rangers had lost the BTC then in my view a CVA would have been accepted, in hindsight their appeal sealed their fate.

      • What brought down RFC 1872 was started by SDM< selling all his shares in the club to WHYTE for a £1………….
        Whyte ended up taking the club into administration owing £55m EXCLUDING the BTC money,

        SDM continued to predictict after the sale to Whyte that RFC 1872 would win the BTC, althought he could not afford to pay the small tax case , that money is included in the £55m.

        your quote in full
        **************************************************************************
        "Now people cannot have it both ways, most thought the CVA would be rejected because of the BTC victory and yet it was rejected because of the BTC defeat."
        ***************************************************************************

        so tell us how the BTC defeat caused the CVA to be rejected, the BTC decision took place 5 months after the CVA was rejected, so please explain how ,as you posted,that the big tax case "defeat " caused the CVA to be rejected.

  33. Hail Hail to our forefathers 125 years ago today when we played our first game,and what a result.

    Search:

    from

    May 28, 1888 – this was just the beginning
    By: Newsroom Staff on 28 May, 2013 07:01
    IT was 125 years ago today, on May 28, 1888 that a crowd of 2,000 braved a chilly evening to watch the newly-formed Celtic Football Club take on the established side from the South Side at the first Celtic Park – or where the new-builds now are on Springfield Road.

    The Celts took to the field in their original outfits of white shirts with green collars with a red and green Celtic cross on the breast as they recorded a win in their first ever game against a side who were to become their greatest rivals.

    The game was won 5-2 with the honour of scoring Celtic´s first ever goal falling to Neil McCallum who, just nine months later, would also score Celtic´s first Scottish Cup final goal.

    The Scottish Umpire of the day said that Celtic played with: “a combination which could scarcely have been expected form an opening display.

    “It would appear that the newly-formed Glasgow club, the Celtic FC, has a bright future before it. At any rate, if the committee can place the same eleven on the field as opposed Rangers last Monday evening, or an equally strong one, the Celtic will not lack for patronage or support.”

    They certainly got that right and it´s thought that the 2,000 attendance could have been greater but for the International Exhibition taking place the same day though in the West End.

    The only surviving remnant of the 1888 International Exhibition is the Doulton Fountain, the world´s largest terracotta fountain and it now takes pride of place outside the People´s Palace in Glasgow´s´ East End…

    We like to think that a rather more authentic, focal and indeed international legacy of 1888´s Industry, Science and Art Exhibition still survives today just along the road a little deeper inside the East End.

  34. Carlito Brigante

    Some questions to Bryce which may provide a more convincing argument for “same club” if answered, as opposed to simply pointing to precedents which do not match the old club Rangers situation.

    1) The Rangers club (1872) incorporated in 1899 to become the company. The company (ergo club) is now in liquidation. Did the club and company ever decouple prior to 2012?

    2) The myth that the “club” was sold. Can any Sevco fan tell me precisely what constituted the “club” that was sold?

    Happy to accept they’re the same club if either of these questions can be answered.

    • Niall Walker

      Good morning Carlito,

      I hope you don’t mind me answering questions posed to Bryce.

      It seems to me we must decide who determines what constitutes ” a club “, is it the SFA, Rangers fans, Celtic fans or the the Law.

      If a Rangers fan believes the club began in 1872 then they may not believe the club ” became ” the company in 1899, they may believe their club was attached to a company, an attachment irrelevant to the concept of their club.
      If a Celtic fan believes ” the club ” becomes the company then the demise of this company for them signals the end of the club.
      The SFA believes ” club ” status is theirs to give or take away, it is not the property of the company, the company does not own its club membership, it is bestowed on them by the SFA, and in the case of Rangers they transferred this status to a new company.
      The Law is only interested in the company not its status as a ” club “.

      I do not believe there is a definitive answer, it is purely down to ones subjective belief of what constitutes a club, even if the SFA accepted Rangers newco as a new member, a Rangers fan may believe it is the same club being given a new membership, and there is no argument because the fan does not define the club by its company status or SFA membership status. One cannot prove them wrong since ” their club ” existed before it was a company or member of the SFA.

      • If a Rangers fan believes the club began in 1872 then they may not believe the club ” became ” the company in 1899, they may believe their club was attached to a company, an attachment irrelevant to the concept of their club.
        ******************************************************************
        http://www.rangers.co.uk/club/history/club-history/item/505-the-beginning-of-glory

        do you see it, do you, CLUB/history, Club History………
        not company history, not the founding of a company, not separation of a club and anew company,

        Club history…………………Wilton was rewarded with his appointment as the Club’s first Manager as Rangers formally became a business company. Rangers Football Club Limited was established in March 1899 and appointed its first board of directors under the chairmanship of James Henderson.

        what was this “RANGERS” that became a business if it was not the football club, that had played football since 1872, was there some other Rangers in existence, that became a business, if there was, why is this on the official web site under club history, it has been on the site a long time before administration struck.

      • “The SFA believes ” club ” status is theirs to give or take away,”

        are you sure, does the SFA not allocate memberships to clubs,
        was it not 8 clubs that formed the SFA, it was not the other way around was it ?

        what entities apply to the SFA for membership,
        your saying a football club can’t be a club until it is granted Membership of the SFA

        • Niall Walker

          ” are you sure, does the SFA not allocate memberships to clubs,”

          I believe we are saying the same thing.

          ” your saying a football club can’t be a club until it is granted Membership of the SFA ”

          Nope, i am saying the SFA believe you cannot be a senior football club in Scotland without membership of the SFA.

    • david

      On the run from from the Mafia, and the NYPD, but still has time to check on Rangers.
      WATCH OUT FOR BILLY BLANCO FROM THE ( I ) BRO ( N) K,
      HES AFTER YOU TOO, HE HAS A GUN HIDDEN UP HIS SLEEVE.
      GO TO GLASGOW CENTRAL, STAY AWAY FROM GRAND CENTRAL.
      AND DONT TRUST THAT HUN PACHANGA

  35. @Niall
    If Rangers had lost the BTC then in my view a CVA would have been accepted, in hindsight their appeal sealed their fate.
    *************************************************************

    Creditors throw out CVA’s as they are not offered enough off a return on their debt, they decide that they can achieve more in an assets sale.
    HMRC,owed X amount excluding the big tax case, reject the offer as it is derisory,
    your saying that if the BTC’s £90m was added to the debt (£55M) and therefore the return to all the creditors would have been drastically reduced then somehow this would have made HMRC say yes.

    Green offers to loan RFC 1872 £8,5m to secure a CVA on debts totalling £55m, HMRC reject the CVA offer of a few P in the £

    yet your saying if the debt was increased to D&P estimate of £145m including the BTC,this would have enticed HMRC to accept.

    A few things,
    why would they accept it,forcing themselves and every other creditor to accept almost zero in the £ returns,

    Why did D&P decide that GREENS loan was the best deal going ?

    why did D&P not wait for the CVA to fail before selling off the assets to Green, why was their no public Auction of the assets, why was it concluded in favour of Sevco 5088 before the outcome of the CVA was decided,
    can you smell that, tell me is that haddock or cod ?

    • Niall Walker

      coatbrig,

      Read both the statements from HMRC and D&P, they clearly state the reasons for the rejection, nothing to do with money or creditors, everything to do with ” years ” of governance and to protect the tax payer.

      Different emphasis.

    • Niall Walker

      ” why did D&P not wait for the CVA to fail before selling off the assets to 2Green, why was their no public Auction of the assets, why was it concluded in favour of Sevco 5088 before the outcome of the CVA was decided,”

      There were no sale bids higher than 5.5 million, there had been an open bidding process for months, nothing to stop any asset stripper bidding.

      I haven’t had a look at the newco terms but lets say they took over the bondholders and contracts of employment, both are major creditors and their saving must be taken into account in the sums.

      • “There were no sale bids higher than 5.5 million, there had been an open bidding process for months, nothing to stop any asset stripper bidding.”

        At no time did D&P offer up anything other than RFC(IL) as a going concern – no bids were ever invited for broken-up assets.

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