Over recent days various documents have appeared online under the name “Charlotte Fakes” seeming to refer to the dealings involving Craig Whyte, Charles Green and Rangers.
I have not commented on them in detail so far for various reasons.
First of all, I have been very busy and it would take time, from what I have seen of them, for proper analysis of the documents.
Secondly, until things are made clear, the veracity of the documents is uncertain. That is not to say that they are fakes, or doctored, or as in the case of invoices involving Rangers and Ticketus, created using clip-art!
At first look they seem to have the appearance of being genuine, but until confirmed either way that can only be guesswork. If however the documents have been created to mislead, then that is a lot of effort, for uncertain effect.
Thirdly, the source of the documents themselves, if genuine, is important. Are they being leaked by a party or someone close to the issue? Were they found by legitimate investigation or discovered abandoned in a bin? Has someone hacked a computer, or broken in to a filing cabinet?
I have no idea and therefore, until the provenance is established, I won’t devote the time to detailed analysis, simply to avoid wasting my efforts should the documents turn out to be as genuine as the Zinoviev Letter or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
But I must say that the alleged Minutes of a Sevco 5088 Ltd Board Meeting held in May 2012 which have now been posted by “Charlotte Fakes” mentions some familiar names and a couple of new factors.
The minute alleges a meeting between Aidan Earley, Craig Whyte and Charles Green where it was agreed to appoint Messrs Whyte and Earley as directors in place of Mr Green. It was also agreed to allot shares in Sevco 5088 Ltd to two companies.
The first of these is Willow International Ltd. That company has been mentioned on this blog before.
In September 2011 Merchant House Group PLC issued a Stock Exchange statement which included the following:-
MHG, the financial services group, is pleased to announce that it has issued 400,843,744 new ordinary shares of 0.01 pence per share in the Company (“New Ordinary Shares”) pursuant to the following:
– 208,500,000 New Ordinary Shares to Willow International Limited (“Willow”) (held by Pershing Nominees Limited)`at a price of 0.05 pence per share pursuant to conversion of £104,250 of the New Convertible Loan Notes* (“NCLNs”) issued by the Company to Liberty Capital Limited, which subsequently transferred £104,250 of loan principal to Willow, a company domiciled in the Seychelles (“Conversion Issue”).
Following the Conversion Issue, there are now £171,750 of NCLNs in issue, all of which are held by Liberty Capital Limited;
…
Following the issue, allotment and admission of the New Ordinary Shares, the following shareholders will, where known, be interested in three per cent or more of the enlarged issued share capital of the Company as follows:
Liberty Capital Limited (held by Prism Nominees Ltd) 18.23%
Willow International Limited (held by Pershing Nominees Ltd) 7.62%
(I have omitted the rest of the list).
Regular readers will know that Merchant House Group is closely connected to Mr Whyte.
Liberty Capital Ltd is the BVI based company which Ticketus is seeking to wind up shortly. It is owned by Mr Whyte.
Willow International Limited is a company based in the Seychelles. According to the alleged Board Minute it was to be a major shareholder in Sevco 5088 Ltd as nominee for Liberty Capital Markets Ltd.
Liberty Capital Markets Ltd has also been mentioned here before. There was a company of that name dissolved in 2010. Its sole director was Mr Wulstan Earley, brother of Aidan Earley.
A new company of the same name came into being after the dissolution of the original Liberty Capital Markets Ltd – its sole director is Wulstan Earley.
Liberty Capital Markets Ltd should not be confused with the multi-billion dollar company “Liberty Capital Markets” and it would be unfair I am sure to suggest that there was any intention to create any such confusion.
As for “Korissa Capital Inc.” which was to be allotted 5 million shares in Sevco 5088 Ltd, I suspect we will find that was incorporated in some exotic corner of the world. One can only wonder to whom it was closely connected…
———————————————-
Who Benefits from these Documents Being Publicised Now?
They appear to show how closely Mr Whyte was connected to Mr Green. Bearing in mind that Mr Green has been evicted from Ibrox as a result of this being rumoured, and that these connections are all still being investigated as I write, it could be thought that their effect might be as follows (and I do appreciate that is a few caveats!):-
1 They are being used by opponents of Mr Green to ensure that his involvement with Rangers is at an end;
2 They are being used by Mr Whyte to provide him with leverage for the claims which are to be progressed by Worthington Group PLC against The Rangers Football Club Ltd (formerly Sevco Scotland Ltd);
3 They are being used to embarrass the Pinsent Masons investigation into Green/Whyte, if it was on the point of clearing the former CEO;
4 They are fakes which, when that fact is revealed, will catapult Mr Green back, with his name cleared, into Ibrox;
5 They are being leaked in an effort to force the Scottish football authorities to take action against Rangers for breaching undertakings it is understood to have given to obtain an SFA membership last year;
6 Or a combination of all of the above.
Even if not genuine, the documents shed some light on how certain sectors of the business world operate – the effort and energy goes into shifting bits of paper representing debts and shares around from company to company, till no one is quite sure who owns what.
It would be wrong to suggest that this effort goes into creating financial circumstances designed to confuse and to extract money from unsophisticated investors. Instead it is a means for clever trading to increase wealth by entirely legitimate and fair means.
The problem with the Rangers takeovers, by Whyte and Green, is that these have been done in the full glare of scrutiny, and scrutiny which can be shared easily with many people. I suspect that deals to squeeze money out of distressed companies, to move assets into new companies, leaving debts in old, to swopping shares for bonds of varying value and substance, happen day in and day out – often done by the equivalent of Del Boy Trotter, but with more expensive suits and less moral fibre.
But that is for another day.
Instead we wait to see what more “Charlotte” has to say and, once any of the mainstream media raise the issue and provoke denials or acceptance of the documents as genuine, detailed scrutiny of what they refer to.
Posted by Paul McConville
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
I have carried this from previous post as it is too important to ignore.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 4:43 pm
Marty,
P.G.Wodehouse, who had his stint in a Nazi concentration camp, was asked if he hated the Nazis. Wodehouse’s answer, was: I don’t hate in the plural.
@Niall Walker from Ecojon
Obviously my definition of a concentration camp differs from yours.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/aug/26/pg-wodehouse-denied-collaborator
PG Wodehouse was questioned by MI5 as a suspected collaborator for broadcasting from Berlin during the second world war. The creator of Jeeves protested that he was shocked and dismayed at the criticism his broadcasts had provoked in Britain.
How the cosy world of Bertie Wooster collided with harsh reality is revealed in MI5 files released today at the National Archives. “I thought that people, hearing the talks, would admire me for having kept cheerful under difficult conditions,” he said in a statement for MI5 in 1944.
Wodehouse was living in France when war broke out. He was taken prisoner when Germany invaded and sent to an internment camp in the German town of Tost, Upper Silesia. He described how, “as he was playing in a cricket match” on 21 June 1941, he was told to pack his bags and was put on a train to Berlin.
He was put up at the city’s Adlon hotel, and was paid to make a series of broadcasts, mainly for American listeners, describing his life as an internee. He claimed he was motivated by gratitude over letters sent by fans from the US.
The Wodehouse files are among a number released at the National Archives on people regarded by MI5 as potential “British renegades”, including collaborators, stool pigeons and possible subversives.
After the Berlin broadcasts Wodehouse and his wife, Ethel, moved to Paris, where they stayed at German expense at the Bristol hotel. It was there that he was interrogated after the liberation of Paris.
In fact looking at the Wodehouse reply it reeks of deflection – no lies but just isn’t the truth and hides the enormity of the actual true storyand the cowardice and self-interest that lies at the heart of it.
Just exactly what is happening with RFC at the moment and their apologists.
He was knighted in 1975, and if you had ever listened to his broadcasts you would realize the accusations of collaboration were nonsense.
Do you think it is acceptable to hate people you have never met and to assume every individual within a group is the same ?
I hope not.
@ Niall Walker
You just don’t get it do you or is it your usual deflection carried to a sickening level this time – you said he did a stint in a concentration camp. It appears according to MI5 he was well looked after in hotels by his Nazi paymasters,
You’re like quite a few trolls that we see on here – you just don’t know when to stop digging. Perhaps it’s got something to do with bonus payments.
ecojon,
He spent one year in an internment camp, do a bit more research and curb the offense it is nauseating.
He and his wife were living semi-permanently at Le Touquet, in France. The town was captured by the Germans on May 22, 1940, and on July 21, he, with the other male aliens in Le Touquet, were sent off to internment-centers, first at Huy in Belgium and then at Tost in Upper Silesia. His internment lasted until June 21, 1941, on which date he was released (solely because he was almost sixty) and was sent to Berlin, where he was joined by his wife (who had been detained in France).
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v07/v07p345_Hall.html
@Niall Walker
You truly have lost your trolley on this one – suddenly he wasn’t in a concentration camp and you now admit as I pointed out that he was only in an internment camp. Most people in a concentration camp would have given their eye teeth to be in an internment camp.
They didn’t get that opportunity and so most ended up losing their life. You are using an apologist article from some American Historical Review publication dated 1987 which certainly doesn’t surprise me in your case.
I see you totally ignore the fact that after he had done his paid broadcasts and being kept in one of Berlin’s best hotels his Nazi paymasters moved him to Paris and paid for him to stay, with his wife, for the rest of the war. That’s the kind of thing they usually did with foreign nationals – I don’t think.
I’ll stick with the grilling he got from MI5 at the end of the war as the factual one and add a bit more from my original quoted Guardian source which makes the position clear beyond doubt as to the ‘rigours’ of his internment camp and what his position was with regard to possible prosecution for treason.
‘Wodehouse said that, while interned at Tost, he completed his novel Joy in the Morning, and wrote Full Moon, Spring Fever, and Uncle Dynamite. {I suppose I should concede that could be compared to the forced labour of the Death Camps}
‘The writer told MI5: “I would like to conclude by saying that I never had any intention of assisting the enemy and that I have suffered a great deal of mental pain as the result of my action.”
‘MI5 decided that the broadcasts were not pro-German and had been unlikely to assist the enemy, and decided against prosecution.
‘However, a memo of a 1946 meeting between an M15 officer and the then director of public prosecutions, Sir Theobald Mathew, reveals that his case was re-evaluated after the war. “The director said that he now takes the view that, if Wodehouse ever comes to this country, he should be prosecuted,” the officer recorded.
‘Wodehouse moved to the US in 1945 and lived there until his death in 1975, aged 93.’
I notice that you state that he was released from the internment camp because he was nearing 60. Actually in the concentrations camps they released them from 1 week old to 100+ by gassing them. Isn’t he really lucky he wasn’t sent there as you originally stated to reinforce some piece of deflection you were intent on.
@Niall Walker
Yes they all seem to get knighted – does the name Blunt mean anything to you?
To compare Blunt with PG is laughable, one was a spy and the other was not, talk about deflection, maybe you hate ALL who get a Knighthood.
@ Niall Walker
Just your usual deflection and I’m afraid ignorance. Read what the Director of Public Prosecutions advised MI5 in 1946 and you’ll see that if he came back to Britain from the US he should be prosecuted for his collaboration.
Niall,
Blunt was a relation of the Queen Mother.
Blunt was honoured AFTER they knew he was a spy…Probably as early 1948 within Royal circles, & certainly long before it became public.He was only stripped of his Knighthood AFTER it became Public Knowledge.
It is another area which is murky, he was MI5 & was tied into the Duke of Windsor pro Nazi scandal, going to retrieve suspect documents. concerning the Duke.
The British Government kept his confession SECRET for FIFTEEN YEARS, it came out through an American source.
It would seem it was a combination of who he was related to, as well as what & who he knew.
do you mean people like SIR jim’il’fix it ?
Half the bankers that ran the country into the ground will be knighted before they die,the others will just have to settle for lordships
Niall a Knighthood is not a guarantee of good character.
Sir Minty ??????
Mac,
He was knighted supposedly 30 years after MI5 considered him a collaborator, not before.
It kinda blows the whole myth out of the water, but he was not in a concentration camp, only an internment camp.
However an internment camp is effectively a concentration camp in my eyes.
@Niall
Are you actually for real? An internment camp is the same as a concentration camp in Nazi Germany in your eyes.
I think it’s time you had a reality check and discover what planet you’re living on because its sounds like Uranus to me.
While millions were exterminated in Nazi concentrations camps the biggest danger faced by Wodehouse was sharpening his pencil to write all the stuff that he was freely allowed to write in his internment camp which he was released from under the Geneva Convention rules.
Fyi the Geneva Convention was not applied in concentration camps – I’m beginning to wonder just how much of an apologist you actually are.
Niall,
It does not turn Fact into Myth.
He like the others, was socially acceptable, that’s all.
Whitewash is a Brilliant thing, it is applied in many areas to cover up scandal.
There was no appitite to prosecute, that does not make for innocence..
Niall
” However an internment camp is effectively a concentration camp in my eyes.”
As far as N. Ireland goes I couldn’t agree with you more.
Long Kesh Concentration Camp commemorated in song by
The Wolfe Tones
There was definitely a difference in the way figures of the British Establishment were treated. I don’t know much about interment camps in Nazi occupied Europe, but Colditz Castle was not as the Establishment would like us to believe a POW camp for prisoners who kept trying to escape. These were shot while trying to escape. It was to contain POW’s who had some clout in the British Establishment, the privileged many, if you take into account the amount of blackguards of the aristocracy who had Nazi connections and inclinations. Unless Wodehouse was working for British Intelligence or under gunpoint, then he should have been aware of the consequences of his broadcasts for the Nazis in a propaganda sense. Although from the same class I don’t think he was as stupid as Bertie Wooster. Or maybe he had a ‘Jeeves’ that ‘saved his bacon’ and stopped him paying the full price for what was in fact collaboration, if not outright treachery, with the enemy.
The real fact is, no matter what we are spoon fed from the ‘history writing class’, is that he was a patrician and was treated in a manner that was common for his class and his innocence or guilt is a side matter in this bigger question of class conflict. I wonder what the Soviets thought of his kindness to the Nazi propaganda machine.
I’ve just had a thought, could it be the schools they go to?
What ho!
( I mean this in a Bertie Wooster way, not gangsta rap)
“…an internment camp is effectively a concentration camp in my eyes.”
What a total arse you are. People in internment camps were fed & watered and even (in Wodehouse’s case) allowed to carry on as before, albeit it within enclosed surroundings, not starved to death, shot or made to build the very chambers in which they were gassed in their millions.
There was me thinking that your “A club isn’t a club unless it’s a member of a club” comment & your woeful ignorance of the duties of company directors were a low water mark, then you come out with that crap?
Have a word with yourself.
Where did you get your evidence, because I have evidence that contradicts yours.
@Niall Walker
More deflection 🙂
My evidence is bigger than your’s small boy because I actually quote the source in my post which is the professional way to do it when not attempting to deflect and employ smoke and mirrors.
Reminds me of the time Adam got himself into a terrible fankle quoting from an official report which he used to attack Celtic. I immediately challenged him on it and asked for his source and he couldn’t remember it just a short time later.
So what’s your source then?
I posted it, and the Government did not give him a Knighthood in 1975 knowing he was a collaborator, my evidence adds up, yours makes no sense.
@ Niall Walker
Oh what a defector you are – let’s not lose sight of how this started. You said he was in a concentration camp to prove some point with Marty.
I pointed out that he hadn’t been and was only ever interned – for a short period. He went on to have a lovely war paid for by the Nazis to make broadcasts and then he was retired to a Paris hotel with his wife – again paid by the Nazis – until he was liberated from that hellhole by the Allies. He must have been sh*tting bricks wondering if he was going to be put up against a wall and summarily shot.
You evidence adds up to someone with a closed mind but that’s your problem not mine. I’ll stick with the truth 🙂
ecojon,
I posted a comment by PG, the comment was the topic, you then took a hissy fit and started spouting about PG being a collaborator, at this point in time I began to lose the will to live, and am now kicking away the chair.
Its a difference of opinion, one that will be shown on TV soon in a new drama, I accept the difference between an internment and concentration camp, but I do not accept he was a collaborator, and neither did the government who knighted him.
He was a literary genius.
What kind of crimes does being a literary genius give you a dispensation for? For a chap who earned his living by using his imagination, his lack of thought is beyond belief. If making intercontinental radio broadcasts for the enemy is not collaboration then I don’t know what is. Ecojon may take exception to the difference over internment and concentration camps, but I cannot see, just because he was given a knighthood several years later, Wodehouse that is, not ecojon, how you can say he is not to be regarded as at least a collaborator. MI 5 knew about Blunt, but he was allowed to work as janitor or is that caretaker of the Queens paintings for years after he was caught out,look it up on wiki. And when you do, I am sure you will realise how weak your point that he received a knighthood and therefore he didn’t collaborate is.
Your source is not evidence, your source is your source, do you do much debating ?
@ Niall Walker
Not usually with idiots and as usual, when I do, I realise what a waste of time it is.
My source if you had bothered to read it cites where the evidence comes from. As you obviously haven’t bothered to read the article the evidence comes from MI5 files released by the National Archives in 2011 and part of that evidence was based on MI5’s interview of Wodehouse towards the end of the war in 1944.
The Wodehouse file was one of those kept on people regarded by MI5 as potential “British renegades”, including collaborators, stool pigeons and possible subversives.
Your source looks like a whacky American apologist magazine 🙂
@Niall
A hissy fit – my my you are a bit of a drama queen. The day someone like you actually bleeped my radar would be a sad one indeed.
Niall,
Your replies are becoming Obtuse, That is not Debating, it is Debatable.
As an aside, when you get in a groove & will not concede a point well made by another, you remind me of ..ADAM, he is also Adamant.
gort and ecojon
I was joking, sorry you missed it, lighten up before you choke on the vitriol, I am going to have a heart attack laughing.
Hawkeye, read Colditz by Henry Chancellor.
I dont know where you got the impression that it imprisoned Special Category ( ie Elite ) prisoners.
There were other nationalities there, including many French and Poles who, along with their British comrades,displayed great bravery and ingenuity in their escapes, including the building of a glider which was never used. Airey Neave escaped, only to be murdered by the INLA years later.
No time for PG Wodehouse though because of one of his best-known quotes. I am sure the Nazis felt he was of some value.
I recall that William Joyce, Lord Haw Haw, willingly broadcast to Britain and it’s dominions on behalf of the Nazis and when he was captured he was hung for treason despite being an Irish national.
I don’t thing PG Wodehouse broadcasted propaganda but there was clearly value in it for the Nazis. Didn’t he live most of his life in Florida after the war?
Wasn’t he pro partition? ie British
@MacTomas
Just had a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Joyce
He was hanged for treason by the British as a result of his wartime activities, being believed to owe allegiance to the UK by his possession of a British passport, a document to which, ironically, he was not entitled. The Court of Appeal and the House of Lords upheld his conviction on one count of high treason.
Unusual for Irish Roman Catholics, both Joyce and his father were strongly Unionist. Joyce later said that he had aided the Black and Tans during the Irish War for Independence and had become a target of the Irish Republican Army,
The Wiki piece explains a bit about the legal complications surrounding his nationality given that he was born in New York and possibly relied on US Citizenship to save his neck although I could see possible flaws in that argument if he had been deported to the US. However he is of no interest to me but thought I would post the info as the issue was raised.
mmm…wonder why he is never paraded by Ulster unionists as a shining example of Catholic Unionism?????
He was pro partition but most definitely Irish.
“GERMANY CALLING ”
Pity they could only hang him once
We most certainly have a sicko in this forum if they can give my post a TD for exposing the truth behind a cowardly Nazi loving collaborator.
ecojon,
Prove he was what you claim, you don’t own the truth.
@ Niall Walker
I’m seriously beginning to doubt that you can actually read – check firstly the article I originally cited and also the quote I used above but will repeat: ‘A memo of a 1946 meeting between an M15 officer and the then director of public prosecutions, Sir Theobald Mathew, reveals that his case was re-evaluated after the war. “The director said that he now takes the view that, if Wodehouse ever comes to this country, he should be prosecuted,” the officer recorded.
Wodehouse never returned to Britain from America – I wonder why that was?
So they gave him a knighthood in 1975 because he was a proven collaborator, that really makes sense.
@ Niall
They gave a knighthood to Fred the Shred and DM – I think for both it must have been for their services to banking 🙂
I have no say in making awards and in general don’t agree with the lack of transparency in the process nor the amount awarded to time-serving civil servants for doing their cushy jobs and being paid very well in the process with gold-plated pensions at the end-up.
Plenty of others more deserving IMO for awards.
I do not recall mi5 giving any one a knighthood!
@Niall
He had close links with the Royal Family so who knows how his name came up and was proposed and that has always been part of the problem with honours – a lack of transparency in the case of many recipients.
It may also have been something to do with the fact that he died 10/11 days after the award – it’s the Establishment way of rewarding one of its own and don’t ever make the mistake of not recognising the strong thread running through the Establishment that favoured or was sympathetic to Hitler and fascism although many used the threat of Boshevism as the excuse.
The other thing is that the MI5 files weren’t released by the time of the award so the detail wasn’t known and 30 years after the end of WWII the country faced fresh problems and a new age so he was looked-after especially as his end was nigh. Worth remembering that Callaghan refused a knighthood for him in 1967 because of the Nazi links but, of course, Callaghan would have access to the security service files unlike 99.99% of Britons.
Maybe the Queen felt obliged to knight him to keep the German (majority) branch of the British Monarchy happy,
I will say it one last time, the evidence is the words he uttered, stop quoting MI5 as if they were some unbiased judge, study the EVIDENCE.
Hold on Nigel…. you cited his 1975 Knighthood as evidence to his faithfulness to the British state………..can’t have it both ways.
Mac,
I have stated right from the get go the only real evidence is his own words, and the Knighthood is evidence that HM govt like me considered him not guilty of collaboration.. MI5 in 1946 considered him to be a collaborator and they had the same evidence, its all a matter of interpretation.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 9:27 pm
“The Knighthood is evidence that HM govt like me considered him not guilty of collaboration”.
==================================================
The consideration of such an important person as yourself Niall, must come as a great comfort to PG’s family.
First the knighthood from HM government and then the clincher of your endorsement.
Touching.
Niall,
“Stop quoting MI5 as Evidence because HE said no”
WHAT? The Security Forces decided there was a case to answer.
Now is this Factual.. Or Not?
Please supply the EVIDENCE to support Innocence.
Before you try the innocent until proven onus switch, that does not apply in debate.
YOU have made a statement,, now advance proof, if no proof exists, advance an argument based on your Judgement or knowledge of pertinent facts to support your position.
@ Niall
I’ll stick with the judgement of the Director of Public Prosecutions that if he returned from America he should be prosecuted for his activities on behalf of his Nazi paymasters..
ecojon,
If you are unable to distinguish between emotive judgements made in 1946 by a jingoistic arm of govt and objective reflection some 30 years later, then that is not my problem. The plain fact is there was no evidence to suggest PG was a collaborator, and you keep maintaining your source is evidence, it is not.
The evidence is available, just read it or listen to it and make your own judgement, anyone with a functioning brain can see he was not collaborating with the Nazis.
If there had been anyone real evidence then the Crown would have been informed and he would not have been given a knighthood.
End of spurious debate.
East Fife fans must be loving you fella…..
“…you keep maintaining your source is evidence, it is not.”
You keep maintaining that because Wodehouse said he wasn’t a collaborator that is evidence of his innocence, and that he was given a Knighthood is more proof.
Then again, a few posts back you maintained that you had provided “evidence” that BDO wouldn’t pursue a Gratuitous Alienation, when in fact it was only your opinion.
Niall,
Nor do you own the truth.
As a reader of both, I think the onus is on You now.
The guy was a traitor with Talent & Connections. Ecojon has posted factual evidence of this.
as a lover of debate you should now counter with Evidence to support your standpoint…”Prove he was what you claim, you don’t own the truth” seems petulant to me.
Ian,
Ecojon has posted no factual evidence that proves he was a collaborator, he has provided evidence that MI5 in 1946 considered him a collaborator, and others disagreed. Now do you think this disagreement is factual evidence for my case or not ?
If not, then you are mistaken, and since I never made the claim, the onus is on you to prove he was a collaborator, and not up to me to prove his innocence.
Niall.
That is not so.
I entered the debate at a later stage.
I read what was available, applied my knowledge of Post war History to the discussion, decided you were in the wrong, & asked for an explaination of Your position.
Your answer is a deflection.
Please answer ME, not Ecojon.
Stop calling Paul a sicko, you hate all who support PG do you not ?
@Niall Walker
You really are losing it – explain yourself a bit more fully and coherently and please identify who you are addressing your remark to.
Do you hate him because he helped the ” Huns “, just like me ?
my god man, you have a terrible fondness of the word hate, don’t you, you seem very very bitter for some reason?
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 7:45 pm
“Do you hate him because he helped the ” Huns “, just like me”?
================================================
Should that not read…Do you hate him because he helped
theHunsjustlike me?Niall,
This is not Debate any more, you seem upset & have taken it into your personal realm which is a strange development.
I will debate history & innocents prosecuted , unfairly, while the government deflects or ignores knowledge of other guilty parties who were allowed to live in a protected state despite their guilt.
I was actually looking forward to it.
The era involved allowed Nazis & Collaborators to be ignored or reformed, as were Scientists & Doctors, all Nazi Party Members, but went on to serve the West against Communism..The American Space Programme is based on V Bomb scientists as an example.
Japan was a war criminal state but needs must & they were treated gently & rehabilitated as a bastion against the eastern threat, as was Western Germany.
Your author’s importance diminishes in the face of the Reality at that time.
A less famous person would have felt the full force of the Law.
I hear Craig has lined up Cate Blanchette (he likes her surname) to play Charlotte in 50 Shades of Green.
If the SFA and MSM get their way we might indeed have to wait for 70 years to learn the truth.
But then along came Charlotte 🙂
Paul and all your friends i read all that you write,help me please why are rangers bringing all these players in when the sfa stated if mr Green had any to do with mr White they will refuse rangers licence please explain to me
Wodehouse was an arse of a man.
I commented on him in a previous post.
@marty
I’m sure you are right Marty, but as Stephen Fry said about his love of the music of Richard Wagner, we must separate the man from the art.
Or is it the art from the man.
@Ed Paisley
I would have had no problem in separating the ‘art and head from his body.
I agree!
Just finished reading a book by Anthony Faramus (Journey into Darkness), who was an 18 year old Jerseyman deported to France for stealing money from the occupying Nazis. He was reported to the Nazis by Jersey policemen and delivered to the Nazis by Jersey officials. He ended up in Buchenwald and the horrors he describes are just beyond normal human comprehension.
When he finally returned to Jersey, he expected to see the Jersey civilian authorities jailed as collaborators. Instead they were given the highest civilian awards and accolades and we’re often still in the same position of authority. The British government had plenty of evidence to support prosecution of these people but they decided that it would be bad form to reveal the extent of that collaboration in the only part of the UK that was occupied. In disgust, Faramus moved to the US for many years and never returned to live in Jersey.
I think the same approach was taken with the quintessential Englishman Wodehouse.
@marty
I saw that but when I saw Niall’s response I saw red for a minute. One of my first bosses on leaving school was an army captain who was in one of the first units into one of the concentration camps.
He ended up with a lung disease thought to have been contracted there and always had a problem with it until he died when his lung condition played a large part in his death. He said almost nothing about his time in the army but at his funeral I got chatting to one of his relatives who told me a little more and explained that he came back haunted and totally changed by the experience.
He knew what a concentration camp was and tried to save people in one and paid for it with his life eventually – he wasn’t, like Wodehouse, living rent-free in a Parisian hotel paid for by the Nazis – some concentration camp.
Wodehouse was a collaborator in my honest opinion.
He also did a monumental disrespecting of all the poor wretched souls who ever had the misfortune to end up in a concentration camp.
His flippant comments about his comparative captivity were truly sickening.
Horrible arse of a man.
Maybe Niall respects his type?
marty,
Your honest opinion like your opinions of ALL Rangers fans is devoid of substance or evidence, its called bigotry.
Was Wodehouse a Deadclub fan the same as you Niall?
I am a fan of individual humanity, this involves not hating plurals.
@martybhoy
He probably was you know 🙂
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Your honest opinion like your opinions of ALL Rangers fans is devoid of substance or evidence, its called bigotry.
===============================================
You need not be concerned of our opinions of “ALL” Rangers fans.
The root cause will soon be removed.
Not long now
Marty,
I am very much in the pro-Wodehouse camp. He might have been naive (he undoubtedly was) but a collaborator? No way. You can’t read his description of Roderick Spode and the Black Shorts and think he had any feelings for the Nazis.
And part of the problem in looking at his situation is that people often do so with hindsight – knowing what we know about the Nazis, how could he “help” them?
The various folk who, even during the war, compared him to Lord Haw Haw were, in my view, totally off the mark.
One for a blogpost perhaps?
I do think that he is one of the funniest writers in the English language.
Paul
We shall agree to differ on this one then.
Maybe Paul respects his type, or does that not matter as long as you support Celtic, just laughable hypocrisy.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 6:46 pm
Maybe Paul respects his type, or does that not matter as long as you support Celtic, just laughable hypocrisy.
=================================================
You’re just laughable.
Paul,
They have never read him nor listened to him, that is all the evidence I need, what you are witnessing is an attempt to assassinate my beautiful character because they cannot debate against me.
Priceless quote from Niall…..haha
Niall Walker
Deluded
Niall When you make statements like that you are effectively marching yourself onto the public stocks & inviting people to chuck rotten fruit at you.
Personally my attitude towards Wodehouse is ambivilent, I don’t think he can be categorised as a collaborator, but perhaps falls into the chancer bracket. I can’t condemn him for easing out of the front line during the war, but there is no doubt that he was disingenuous about his position. Pretty unforgivable really when you think of the sacrifices & sufferings of others in securing a Fascist free Europe.
It also raises the question are gifted people, which he undoubtedly was, given wider moral wriggle room than us mere mortals?
De.Nail….
Niall, “they” is a plural. I thought that you didn’t condemn people in the plural.
@Witers like actors can be great concealers.
He certainly put self-preservation high on his agenda. But you shouldn’t forget how this started and that with Niall making a debating point against Marty by falsely claiming Wodehouse had been in a concentration camp but didn’t hate Nazis in the plural.
We then have this amazing series of posts from Niall where instead of just accepting that he made a mistake – shades of Adam here – he tries to justify his position.
Considering what a cushy war Wodehouse ended up having – never in a concentration camp btw – I would have thought he was very friendly with a lot of the Nazis – but only the nice well-educated ones who would join his salon.
I’m afraid I regard Wodehouse as another traitor who should have been shot – he was there to put the human face on a Nazi regime as part of a wider initiative to keep America out of the war through his broadcasts to the American people.
Do you actually think he didn’t know exactly what he was being used for. As to his humour there were few joke books in the camps and the only smiles were from the guards and equally professional doctors who swabbed skin to prevent infection before giving a lethal injection.
But its nice to know that Wodehouse was able to be so productive in the internment camp that fills me with a sense of relief.
I am defending him against your claims of being a collaborator, and you are losing, so lets get back to the concentration camp red herring.
” but didn’t hate Nazis in the plural.”
ecojon, his comment referred to the behavior of the NAZIS and their hatred in the plural, I gathered you had missed his point, he was exceptionally clever.
ecojon,
He spent a year in an internment camp prior to being moved to the hotel when he was 60, his comment related to what he witnessed when humans are ready to mass-hatred.
Yea the Nazis moved every foreigner to a luxury Paris hotel when they approached 60. Unless they were a gypsy, a jew, a trade unionist, a Catholic, a homosexual and anyone too old or to young to work or who had ever opposed the brutal regime.
British citizens were not put in concentration camps, he was not alone in the internment camps.
Dream on
That is not the case, citizens of both Jersey and Guernsey were put in concentration camps.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 8:01 pm
” but didn’t hate Nazis in the plural.
Niall,
That is a human response when you are wrong.
CONCENTRATE on the Singular, pick someone or something you like.
Then DENY the Rest.
He appears as Guilty as sin, in the Actual British application of the Law at TIime.
Others , without friends, fell foul of the Law.
Paul, does the fact that a man has talent exempt him from the :Law?
OR was it an old boys act?
aye
Oh Charlotte we love you and your the way we like it we like it wow wow wow wow wow
Do you hate all those who do not share your view ?
Nope……just pretend East Fife fans.
@ marty
Well I think that particular disguise is in tatters tonight 🙂
Lets have a look at this slippery slope fallacy, I do not believe PG was a collaborator which makes me a Rangers fan.
Nurse.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 8:07 pm
Lets have a look at this slippery slope fallacy, I do not believe PG was a collaborator which makes me a Rangers fan.
==================================================
Nothing to do with PG or the Nazis.
Its all the other things you write that give you away.
East Fife my arse.
Waiting for the mainstream media to raise it!!
Could be a long wait!!!
@jim62
Well at least Richard Wilson of the Herald is tweeting her asking if she’ll do a dump so the whole thing can be evaluated in context. So I suppose that’s progress of a sort.
There is a little difficulty in how to handle it from a MSM point of view but it really easy to get round but again we have the bug problem with the Rangers story from Day 1.
It’s basically being handled by sports journos and 99% of them don’t have the ability to handle this kind of story – it is way out of their competence league. It needs investigative reporting techniques which are slightly more onerous than supping succulent lamb with your elders and betters 🙂
Freudian slip
‘bug’ problem should be ‘big’ problem but maybe not – I suppose it really is a ‘bug’ problem after all.
@eco Keevins’s mantra “I signed up for football” is the shield most of the MSM hid behind. It’s now legal pitfalls that are cited as reasons not to pursue “The Biggest” story in Scottish sporting history & probably the major issue touching on Scottish culture & lets be honest politics.
The real reason they are all shuffling around the issue is fear. Fear of being exposed as lacking the basic investigative tools for “basic journalism, & the most obvious fear of alienating the Beloved Bloo noses & losing their custom.
Mind you, who would want to be the guy who brought the bad news that over half the nation did not want to hear 🙂
Jim, now that Paul has brought it out into the open, supported by eco’s superb analysis, the cat’s out the bag. Now depends on who in the msm has the balls to run with the story.
I’ll put a £10 on 5).
@Thomas
I wonder what D&Ps American owner is going to make of all this?
But you’re right No 5) must be the one that BDO is eyeing beadily.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 48m I should have offered the clown a seat on the board on the basis of unconditional support. However I shall never claim to be someone else.
Glasgowish phrasing? Is Charlotte in a position to offer such a seat?
@ barcabuster
I reckon it’s Big Aggy the tea wummin – since they cut back her teabag allocation she’s been on the warpath 🙂
I posted Charlotte’s latest two tweets right at the end of the last post but they are worth repeating as she has a wicked sense of humour 🙂
Wonder who the prominent Rangers Supporters Spokesperson is – Chris Graham is my bet as he seems to have his eye set on a media career – he should do well as he’ll fit right in with the rest of them.
Charlotte Fakeovers Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 1h
Prominent Rangers Supporters Spokesperson sends me this, thinking I’m Craig!!! “Been an admirer of your recent work. Would be good to talk”
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 1h
I should have offered the clown a seat on the board on the basis of unconditional support. However I shall never claim to be someone else.
Sorry guys I’m just not buying into the Charlotte fake scenario.Only because the name itself is derived from the excellent fake documents coming from china to Charlotte in America,kids have been running about with fake documents which are supposed to be top quality you can’t tell the difference. Until the source is known I would be carefull not to get carried away.
@ Jimmy bee
I think a few people might be getting carried away for a wee hurrell before we see the end of this 🙂
We don’t know the source so all we have is the ability to try and look at the documents against what we know are facts in the background or strongly suspected to be facts.
There is then the question of the legal opinion which underpins a lot of the stuff in the docs – so what do you make of the legal opinion? Are 2 QCs going to put their name and professional reputation on the line if they aren’t satisfied with the provenance of the documents they have been shown.
I said after the first Charlotte tweet that even if only 10% was true then it was dynamite and nothing has altered my opinion since. In fact I am becoming more and more convinced that the % of truth is a lot higher than 10% at this stage.
You also appear to be forgetting the audios and how they dovetail into the documents – do you think these are fake as well and I don’t just refer to the Charlotte audios but to all the others ones as well.
But I’m all ears – give me an idea what you think is dodgy – I have bits where I have reservations but that is mainly where I think the lily has been gilded a bit after the date in question but that kind of cosmetic treatment is what you would expect from a female after all 🙂 Only kidding Maggie 🙂 and Charlotte 🙂
@eco The tapes on their own are more than enough dynamite to bring down the red brick facade of Ibrokes. It’s CG in conversation with CW about hoovering up Rangers for crying out loud. That we were told.
” DID NOT HAPPEN”
@ MacThomas
Totally agree but I love reading the deflectors and having a good laugh 🙂
Btw I posted a wee bit on Joyce up above.
Anything that has come out of castle greyskull has always been dodgy to me Eco. Just some wee bits are niggling at me,and when the source comes to the fore,and it is confirmed then I shall believe.
I do enjoy your posts and that of others on here,I’m just a novice at this,takes me all my time to type,as you can tell from the time of my last post to this one.Keep up the good work.
@JimmyBee
These documents are so utterly convincing. Who amongst this cast of players, would have the intelligence and the skills to pull off this level of fraudulent document production.
I accept that there might be some selectivity going on, and some of the simpler documents could be fabricated but I think the bulk of the documents are bona. I can’t wait for the next release.
I echo JohnBhoy’s thanks to Eco for his indispensable analysis. Cheers Eco.
Well what a week and weekend were having the facts are out and it is not looking good for sevco Scotland and there company’s this true nuclear stuff a wonder what Charllotte is serving for Sunday dinner tomorrow lol the late night suppers have been a treat lol
I cant vouch for documents , but tapes are genuine or im a Dutchman, dynamite, kaboom.
Off topic, but Kiegan Bradley has just drove a golf ball 402 yards. Thought i would share that. 🙂
Hi Adam what’s your view on Charlotte and the docos or have you gave up on soccer and taking up golf ?????A would not blame you if you did in light of the dramas
See below.
Doesn’t count mate…..he would need to have just driven it.
He might get a game for our B team if he asks nicely.
Thanks for sharing on a Scots Law site.
LOL. Remember that last comment the next time there is a blog about Ally McCoist on this Scots Law site
Ally McCoist?
Did he not used to regularly break the law with his big eared mate Durrant when they were inarticulate versions of the Chuckle Brothers in their playing days?Kebab shop assaults were more common than goals for them in those bygone days of yore.
Thats it. Get all the rage out over the internet. 🙂
Adam
May 18, 2013 at 7:05 pm
That’s it. Get all the rage out over the internet.
==================================
Why not?
You do.
I drove one 10mile the day was in the back of my van.
See “Tin Cup”
b interesting to see if there are any further releases….. she may disappear for a bit…..still not comfortable with these board meeting minutes…………
Of everything i have saw, they are the ones that jump out as a recent creation. However, i dont think that means they are fake……if you ken what i mean.
You have saw….band saw….hacksaw?
@Adam
It could be that someone different has written them – but that resolution must exist within the company records in some shape or form. But why would the three of them meet in London just for that – I would think possibly something else was going on that day – perhaps another meeting with Ticketus or whoever.
When Charlotte first came to TSFM I was unsure of it all but I’m probably over the line now if accepting the biggest proportion of material is probably close to being accurate or at least a fair reflection of things.
Really not sure. As i say, i think they are real, or have been passed on as real but as you say, the minutes were utter nonsense and its highly unlikely a meeting took place for that.
Also the lack of a signature stinks as well on that front.
@arb burns
Yea I’ve posted my own thoughts on them but seems I may have got a company name crossed but I’m going to have another look at that. However she does say ‘alleged’ or something like that in describing them so who knows.
Just an opinion, but i cant help but feel they are real and that the man i despise is behind the whole thing. 😦
I mean, lets be real, he has form.
Adam what solutions is there for the club to break free of the sevco strangle hold as it is clear the club is out of breath
@mick
It’s OK if you keep your head in the sand then you don’t need to breathe much.
The big question the Rangers supporters have coing up is the issue of STs – To buy or not to buy? That isn’t just a question but it could mean life or death for the club or equally life or death for the spivs.
Thanks for your non blinkered view Adam it seems it’s 30 mil to get rid of whyte and buy assets
No chance. Admittedly its a legal minefield but everything we know about Craig Whyte points to a result against him. The guy is clueless and has lost every court decision we know of.
Where this all leaves us, i simply dont know. Its a total circus.
@Adam
Don’t forget that Whyte isn’t going to be a party in this one in terms of litigation – it’s Earley and the company.
Clueless !
He bought Rangers and is still in there.
Loses every court decision, pays bloody little.
Came in with at least the contingency of Administration, got de-railed..
Don’t underestimate him, he may still own Ibrox.
@Adam
Assuming that he is behind it, then it smacks of desperation …….
Seperately, have a listen to audio CG3 ……….
What is your take ?
I have a few thoughts that might be wortwhile sharing …….
He has previous for taping stuff as well, which tells you everything you need to know about the guy. He defo is desperate so cant say I wouldnt be surprised.
Listening to that CG3, it appears to me they are talking about a successful CVA and as soon as they get to the CVA not happening the tape cuts out, which to me , stinks to high heaven.
Yes, pre CVA so prior to 14th June.
Re CVA, they are discussing release of assets for the benefit of ‘Sevco’ …
CG attempts to deflect …. interjecting …. “You are Sevco” ….
CG introduces …. Patrick (assume FFW ?) ….. preparing docs
CW and AE appear surprised …. or at least unaware ….. these were prep’d by Patrick ….
CG (nervously) reminds CG that debentures are still important even on CVA failure …… listen again !
Important point ……. CG states need for Scottish Comp ……. hence using Patrick to sort ……..
First …. Now we know that CW and AE are now aware of what is happening ……. that is new ! ….. and it was new to them !
Second ……. The docs so far show CW and his advisors, legals etc in control ………..
Third ….. CG has grasped the nettle and is taking the lead ………. This is important ……… it’s the moment that CG controls were this is going … !
The ‘sting’ was on …. !
Notice also CG tones ….. refer to STV interview when challanged about Whyte …. it is very telling ….. you can detect when he is comfortable …. and same when he is lying ……..
Now listen again to the audio …… see if you can detect …… !!!
Whats your take on that ….. ?
sorry read CW (nervously) for CG (nervously) above ………….
Listened again and on two occasions Green and AN other state its subject to the CVA.
Im not up to speed with who the 3rd guy is, but he appears to be on Whytes side and was working an angle but clearly stated that the deal with SEVCO was “subject to a CVA”
Later on in the call, Green reiterates:
“Even SEVCO cant use them until the receiver has signed the deal, gone exclusive and delivered the CVA”
He then went on to say
“And if the CVA failed, it wouldn’t matter as they(CW shares/deed/guarantees) would be worthless”
At this point Whyte asks “but the debentures wouldn’t be worthless” to which Green initially says “no” then stammers as if he is about to say something else and it gets cut off.
The suspicious person in me thinks it gets cut off for a reason at that point and that the rest of the tape will never be heard anywhere because it will be deleted.
I really, really, really hope somebody does serious time for this.
Other guy was Aiden Early ….
remember also STV interview …. CG stated that CW was essential as he controlled debentures …….. he also admitted lying to CW …. will say whatever ….. to get control …. etc
CW …. the debentures are not worthless …
How about …. No .. in the afirmative …… agree …
gotta shoot out ….speak later ….
If it truly was “no in the affirmative” then why cut the tape off and hang it out there ? Surely it would have been more certain if the tape rolled on to hear the end of the convo.
Just my opinion mind you as its looking more and more like Pinnochio 1 and 2 with them.
@newtz
Yea – you can actually feel the gear change taking place – but that STV interview was when the wheels came off the chuck wagon. He lost the plot at that point and just couldn’t recover it. Anyone I have spoken to who watched it all say he was obviously spouting porkies big style.
I actually thought he would have had more steel in him than that but, in the end, looks as though it was all just stealing the limelight and nothing else.
@newtz
Remember IA saying CG was shitting it to take the role. CW had to hand him the reins at some stage. Poss this was it… Patrick……CW OK with that, and false animosity line…. no eyebrows raised so pre planned. CW senior@this stage. CG service provider
@Adam …. agree …. why cut tape off there …. it does raise suspicion … !
I am in agree also ….. I believe that CW is pulling the strings …..
Does NOT mean CtH is colluding ………. just being used ….. !
Time will tell ….
This audio is key ……. when set alongside LBC and QC’d LBC …..
The Switheroo …. as we all figured out ….. is central ….. how was it novated …. what was purpose of Res11 …. The document I previously mentioned (earlier posts) is ‘possibly’ the document(s) described in this audio ……
If ………. IF ……. CW signed without legal scrutiny (or a duff legal) …. then he is …… Shagged big time (IMO) …… we need to see the ‘Patrick Documents’ ………… I have a request and some questions along these lines to CtH ….. so far she has delivered ……. let’s see what she is made of …. ! …………
(Hi Charlotte ….. I know you read ….. x)
Forgot to mention ….. we are into Project Blue here …..
@bara, yes this is the moment CG takes the reins ……..
The BIG mistake (IMO) is allowing CGinstructed legals take the reins from CW and group legals …….. Big … Big mistake …….. !
Perhaps you could ask Charlotte if she(and how do we know its a she by the way) has heard the tape, past the bit where CG stammers before its cut off or if that was exactly how it was passed on ?
Yep, CVA only, no need for CW in asset sale.
Adam
May 18, 2013 at 6:24 pm
Just an opinion, but i cant help but feel they are real and that the man i despise is behind the whole thing.
I mean, lets be real, he has form.
================================================
Aye.
Rangers are innocent.
Its all those bad men that dun it.
Rangers dun nuffin’.
Its the fans that are suffering.
We’ve been punished enough.
NOT LONG NOW
Of course I can be wrong but the Charlotte stuff looks quite genuine.
it is biased in that nothing emanates from Craig Whyte, other people incriminate themselves and our man stays above it.
Biased perhaps, but drawing out a response, some facts and motivations will emerge.
Hindsight and a lot of detective work will give us something like the truth.
I am enjoying this as I have always felt that that the Whyte era was the most interesting part of the whole saga.
7) ticketus appeal
Assuming he wins his case, how much is he entitled to, from what I have read it may be 10%, that equates to 3.7 million, so what ?
Mountain out of a mole hill as far as Rangers future goes.
Newclub have NO future……keep up at the back of the class please.
It will never get to that, CW will be offered compensation by CG out of his end, and he will accept.
His end?
Just to clarify, you think whyte will be paid off, I assume using the hard earned cash all those loyal teddy bears stumped up at the ipo.
Reducing the size of Ally’s war chest, that’s going to go down well!
@ mlonie
Sorry? Ally’s what?
More like a Lucky Dip than a warchest methinks. In any case Green and Ahmad are fighting over the Ibrox warchest to carry away their pay-offs and penny shares.
what and pay the rest of the Ticketus money out his own pocket…..lol
@De.Niall
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 7:29 pm
It will never get to that
========================
That’s what you said about liquidation, and look how that turned out.
RANGERS TRIBUTE ACT ARE GOING DOWN
carntyne,
You think they may go down and I disagree, anymore nonsense and Iwill put you ignore, you are dangerous.
Rangers were sold for £5.5m. 1.5 molehills.
Niall, you are not consistent, are you.
When gratuitous alienation wa mentioned withregard to £5.5m purchase you said the value was what someone would pay and £5.5m was all the market would pay.
Recent posts from you say that Rangeers are worth £37m.
i am losing respect for your posts.
I would be happy with a £3.7m molehill, but thats just me perhaps.
den,
Rangers is worth on paper 37 million, and this is one year after the sale for 5.5 million, in between there has been 20 million poured into it .How you can use its paper value as evidence of GA, it lost 7 million in the first 7 months and if the fans desert the club in any decent numbers it will require more funding and its value will drop.
Niall.
It will require more funding.
Where does the funding come from though ?Given the present circus another share issue is not on the cards. there is no credit available from banks. Maybe a sugar daddy ?
Worth on paper £37M (assuming the paper is sterling pounds. One yesr after it’s sale for £5.5m (same currency presumably). £20m
( sterling ?) poured in. Thought it was more than that. Anyway, a lot less than £37M (Sterling).
But numbers don’t add up
£7m ioss in 7 months suggests a bad return. Your £20M is worth less than before.£5.5m + less than £20M is ess than £37M.
Can you explain the £37M. Bear in mind your previous responses on the differing Ibrox valuations that the value is what someone is willling to pay.
You need not have any reservations about the authenticity of the documents, or the reasons why they have been disclosed Paul, Hoopy will tell us, not through education on the subject, not because it may prove Rangers have been purchased twice now through fraud but, through their hatred of my club
Your club is dead unless you’re talking of the Wee Rangers club where Leggo pishes himself to the beat of the sectarian sing song after Newco’s home games.Away back to Rainjurs Meeja ya muppet.Military fantasist D’Artagnan and Hardman Rab Wilson will be glad to listen to your shoite.
Is that you Neil ? you certainly sound angry enough to be
GlesgA1
May 18, 2013 at 7:12 pm
Hoopy will tell us, not through education on the subject, not because it may prove Rangers have been purchased twice now through fraud but, through their ‘hatred’ of my club.
================================================
If you substitute the words abhorrence, detestation, loathing or revulsion for the word hate, I think most people would agree with you.
One has to admit, it’s a highly entertaining twist to a plot that knows no bounds. Survive or not, the name of Rangers has been dragged into a mire of disreputable proportions that will take generations to erode. The ‘establishment club’, the ‘queens xi’ – the very mention of these will arouse nothing but hilarity for years to come.
It [s stated in one of the emails that Donald Muir “Lloyds” would push the right people to make sure the deal goes through, if authentic it agrees with my thoughts that the bank sold to Whyte, not SDM, and if the rest of the documentation is the same it may mean that Rangers have been the subject and victim of being gained through fraud. Why, can you explain when so many good people through the years have worked for the club, and may lose their jobs can i ask you will find it hilarious, is it through hatred, bigotry, jealousy or all three ?
Unfortunately there will be collateral damage. Rangers – Sevco’s fault no one else’s.
It really beggars belief that a Rangers – Sevco fan is handing out lectures on bigotry!!!!!!!
Glesga, afraid it’s chickens coming home to roost. If Rangers then subsequently Sevco supporters had ever shown the slightest amount of humility instead of subjecting the country to their ridiculous and puzzling superiority complex they’d maybe get more sympathy.
Add to that the cranking up of arrogance by Sevco fans since liquidation (which even includes some of them refusing to accept that it actually happened) and its no wonder the rest of the country are laughing at the zombies.
People losing their jobs is always unfortunate but I wouldn’t put too much emphasis on that. Football clubs generally don’t employ a lot of people with their spending focused on the team. The impact of another liquidation wouldn’t be as great on the area as for example, Asda at Helen Street closing its doors would be.
So I say it’s a wee bit of karma, you probably read it as ‘it’s all about the rangers’
You are basing this of course on the Rangers fans you know and idiots off Rangers Minded and Follow Follow.
I should add that there are thousands of Rangers fans embarrassed with what happened and would gladly pay back as much as possible. It has even been suggested that the money raised and sitting in the RFFF account will be split amongst all the small creditors if the club is stabilised and the money not needed.
What should never be overlooked though is the result of the Police enquiry into the sale of the club and what subsequently happened. The fans could do very little about that and are essentially the victims of serious mis-management and potential fraud.
Hi Adam,
I do feel sorry the genuine fans among my friends and in general but their voices are being drowned out by the noisy supremacist mob. Anybody that puts their head above the parapet is quick to blame everybody else and take no responsibility for what’s happened. I do think this is partly down to Charlie’s sabre rattling of the last year but who’s fault is it for buying his smash hook, line and sinker?
I also disagree that the fans couldn’t do anything. You may not like to hear it but Celts for Change showed the way forward 20 years ago.
It’s not too late to take your club back incidentally – you could sort this out very quickly by not giving the spivs your dough.
The comparison to Celts for change is nothing like apples with apples though.
The costs nowadays for sorting this mess out and keeping the club afloat are nothing like it was back then.
I could let you all into a secret about Celts for change that would surprise the life out of each and every one of you 🙂 (not a bad thing by the way so dont think im trying to paint what happened as being wrong or anything) just something more personal. 🙂
PS – I say “I could” but im not going to before anyone asks. lol
Adam,
Much of the comment on here has been based on the outpouring of the idiots of “Rangers minded and Follow Follow”.
Not yourself obviously. You never tried to deflect.
You became poster boy for the Rangers trolls purely by chance and tried to shrug off the mantle to no avail as Cam in particular got behind you at every chance..
Police enquiry was so recent that it was news to you. Split what is left in RFFF, so noble !.
Most definitely the Holy Trinity 🙂
‘personal’ you say Adam….
GlesgaA1 – Sir D Murray sold on to Whyte in the full knowledge of his background as outlined in the Titon consultancy report. Keep up! I find that working class Scottish people fawning to an aristocratic monarchy and claiming superiority over their fellow humans – only for the whole facade come crashing down in a mire of cheating and criminality – is very funny indeed. What’s wrong with that?
A lot of anger and hatred of us Scots in there
SairFecht
That is the protestant work ethic that powered the industrial revolution. They let the mercantile aristocracy shovel them with shit and they tug their forelocks and say “more please sir”. They (the bluenoses) have to understand how they are empowered to end this nonsense. Adam says it can’t happen these days the way Celts For Change did it back in 93. Why not? No season book money would be calamitous for the crooks and they would be forced into transparency. Jeez.
GlesgA1
May 18, 2013 at 7:21 pm
Can you explain when so many good people through the years have worked for the club…
================================================
Yer havin’ a laugh!…
Lloyds ended up with the Rangers debt through negligence and patronage by the Bank of Scotland allowing Rangers MIH to run up huge and unsustainable debt. Bof S then surrendered the best brand in Scotland to the Halifax Building Society through sheer ineptitude combined with the aforementioned nepotism/ old boy network.
Halifax inherited the ineptitude of B of S with the brand name and compounded the idiocy with its in house short termism (fashionable at the time, still inexcusable)
in the crisis Lloyds were one of two UK Banks who claimed to be viable and were not demonstrably dead. The Government agreed to go along with the fiction that they were viable if they took on HBOS in return for hidden support.
Lloyds were presented with the proposition that SDM wanted to borrow more money. And for what – his football club.
The answer was ……….?
Hatred
Bigotry
Jelousy
All three ?
I want tto know what you would have said, my answer is obvious.
@SairFecht
Surely decades at least 🙂
This Niall ( I suspect ‘Orange’) Walker really does blow it out of his arse. ‘Assuming he ( Wee Craigie) does win his case, how much is he entitled to?’ He asks. ‘ Ten per cent, that equates to 3.7 million, so what? Mountain out of a mole hill as far as Rangers future goes.’ He asserts.
Er, hello! If Wee Craigie ‘wins his case’ Rangers lose their license and, even worse, the IPO is null and void. They will find themselves in the mother of alls shit storms. Talk about being in denial!!!!!
@dan
Careful dan you will shortly be asked if you do much debating? I certainly used to at school and Uni but when I became a boss I became more of a dictator 🙂
If you debated well you would have no need to confirm your education or career, and anyone who hates plurals is lacking in both.
@ Niall
Do you honestly think anyone cares about what you think?
Its certainly better reading Nialls views and opinions than some of the idiots you fawn over, which is a pity because its evident you are not an idiot yourself.
Carson = bad
Mick and Monti = good.
hmmmm
Adam,
You must forgive ecojon, he bruises easily, quite an unusual trait for a dictator.
Adam
With respect I think your attitude to Mick is plain snobbery because he doesn’t meet your exacting standards in spelling and grammar. He continually hits the mark with his views and predictions. Today, to paraphrase Mick, he said Niall has SQA smarts but his insight into the Rangers situation is clouded by his obvious bias. Again, I think Mick has made a very fair appraisal.
Its nothing to do with his spelling and grammar. It has everything to do with telling me F off a few times, calling me a liar, accusing me of being in jail, calling me a pr*ck, his constant use of hun/currant and the ooh ah references which we all know what they refer to.
Adam
May 18, 2013 at 8:45 pm
Carson = bad
Mick and Monti = good.
====================
Adam=Thick.
Adam
May 18, 2013 at 10:20 pm
Its nothing to do with his spelling and grammar. It has everything to do with telling me F off a few times, calling me a liar, accusing me of being in jail, calling me a pr*ck, his constant use of hun/currant.
=================================================
I think currant bun is a fair description of you Adam.
You’re so touchy…
ecojon,
I know you care about what I think and your replies are my evidence, always follow the evidence my friend, its something you should have picked up at ” Uni “.
@Niall
Pomposity as well as deflection 🙂
ecojon,
Condescension is an art practiced by many, mastered by few.
You do take this stuff very seriously and I will accommodate you in future.
@Niall
deflecting again 🙂
You were the one that first asked if I had done any debating. Bad sign when the memory starts going.
dan,
Have a wee think about the consequences of reversing the sale on the value of the club, and what this would do to any monies due to CW.
It will never happen, everyone would lose.
Niall, think there’s a possibility that Craig is leaking all this cos he knows the jigs up, he realises that he’s been bumped out his dough so he wants to bring the lot down with him?
mark,
The murky world of asset stripping ( management) is filled with sociopaths who have one motivation, MONEY.
CW and CG are both financial predators, and predators rarely fight each other to the death, they threaten to achieve an outcome.
CW is probably releasing all this guff to enrage the Rangers support and affect season ticket sales, its a further threat, he is ratcheting up the pressure on CG to make a deal. He is letting CG know that his shares will be worthless by December if he does not do a deal.
And I think it will work, this is why I am interested in how much he will get.
@Niall
If the sale is proved illegal and reversed, everybody should lose! CW yes, because he was trying a phoenix, CG&IA, yes, because they were aiding and abetting b4 trying to shaft him. Same goes for D&P and anybody involved.
Then the club/company/assets can be legally and morally liquidated to the benefit of the creditors. Simples!
It is clear why I am not a qualified judge. I would jail the lot of them and bulldoze the place. I couldn’t be bothered listening to their rabbitting and finger pointing.
I may not be a qualified judge, but I have judgement. The place is a hive of corruption and morally bankrupt behaviour.
It was before the arrival of CG&CW, and if allowed to continue unfettered, will be again when they depart..
Oh. And while I had my black cap on I would change corporate law. It sucks!
barca,
I am not suggesting this is pretty but they will never reverse the sale nor will any of this see a court, they are pragmatists, there is no point in self destruction, for them its not a moral issue of right or wrong, its who profits.
At the end of the day all the original suspects will make a few bob, and Rangers will sail on.
@Niall.
You have hit on the head why you get under people’s skin. You seem out of touch with the average Scottish fan.
It is NOT about profits or Sevco sailing on or any other matter.
It is about these spivs, who think they can invade OUR game, and fleece OUR money.
It is about the cheating, and corruption they have brought to the game with their shitty practises and corporate chicanery.
It is about the blind eye turned by our governers, it is about bias and level playing fields.
There may be folk with other reasons, and aye, bigotry may be one, But for the best part, it is for the type of reasons stated.
These grey suited pirates are doing more damage to the game than our refs could ever dream of.
Sevco HAVE been afforded preferential treatment, when the truth is, it is they who are the bad guys
The fawning and lying, and yes, corruption of the rules done on their behalf is truely sickening to most folk. Anger on an unprecedented level Haas been introduced into the game, to fascilitate future wealth for these spivs, and for why? So there will still be a team called Rangers! ! !
It is not on! And they got it wrong. They are Sevco, Super Sevco, no one likes them…..but not for the reasons they think.! They have cheated the whole nation, and nobody gives a flying feck what corporate law says. Nobody cares for what they stand for, But everybody cares about what they &ave, and continue to do.
They are unworthy of defence.
barca,
I am stating what I think will happen, I am not defending it.
Spot on Barca
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 8:18 pm
It will never happen, everyone would lose.
==================================================
That’s what you said when claiming Rangers CVA offer would be accepted.
It wasn’t.
Paul
I’m assuming that CF is being quite clever , if ch4 or msm had the documents unofficially then a court could restrict the use in the media.
However this way it is common knowledge and the media are able to comment on what is already in the public domain. (Ryan giggs saga springs to mind)
@ thoughtsfromthenortheast
I assume you must be from the NE of England so let me assure you that the Scottish MSM would never print such scurrilous and patently fabricated documents 🙂
Well not until every Scot has read them on the internet and made the MSM look stupid yet again.
Very funny , no I’ve open mind , imagine going to the daily record with these documents , DR tips off rfc and before you know the lodge ,sorry courts has them tied up in some legal process never to see the light of day. This way we all get to see leaving it to AT & MD to get to the bottom and do some serious reporting.I think that is CF’s motive.
ecojon.
I noticed on a twiitter feed the other day somebody claiming rights on the word ‘spivocants’ in relation to msm.
@Budweiser
Sounds fair to me 🙂
ecojon.
Actually, it might have been ,spivcofants – if it wasn’t then I claim this one !
Spivohipocants (acknowledging some inspiration from Arson)
Creg.
Good luck with asking arson to spell it !
was’nt that RTC
newtz.– Yeh, might have been. If it was spivocants and not spivcofants then can I claim the latter ?
While you’re here. Re ‘ poison pill ‘. Is there a suggestion that Bill Miller swallowed one of these, or that he was part of the set up all along ? ie one of the characters to give credence to ‘ the sting ‘ ?
@Bud
My guess it was set up exactly to deter possible buyers like BM …… load up debt …….. £30m hole …
But the story goes further back …….. the double poison pill ………..
recall ……..
Charlotte>Charlotte> …….
newtz. —- Double poison ! No. Do tell !
Best explained by the source …..
And just in case the black hole didn’t put BM off, someone orchestrated a “Yanks go home” campaign which made it quite clear he wasn’t welcome.
they should have used the last vowel as opposed to the first one.
Just listening to the other ones. On the first one he mentions Brian. I assume this is Brian Kennedy ???
Laudrup
Why is he soo good ?
Tough talking Niall
Or Brian Boru?
Is that not a horse?
No, he’s the the guy dole office is named after.
@Adam
Wrong – Have another guess 🙂
I think it is. Do you think it is Stockbridge ?
@Adam
If you look at the Charlotte’s twitter feed all will be explained and the confusion between the two Brian’s cleared-up.
I have read through it and cant see it. I can see a mix up re Early but dont get the Stockbridge reference. If you listen to it, Green says “And on the basis from what you heard from Blue Knights and with respect from you Brian, this is a seriously different deal”
From that, im gathering its Brian Kennedy and is referring to the deal he was puting on the table… ??
No ?
@Adam
Read the headings of Charlotte’s tweets and you’ll see the explanation as clear as day. I’m not being awkward just trying to push you a bit further on the ‘words’ so you become more than just a mere ‘numbers’ man.
Right, ive got it. 2 questions then.
1) Given that charlotte got the Aiden Early one wrong, could this also be wrong?
2) Given the context of what CG said, does it not make more logical sense that its Kennedy and not Stockbridge, who is one of Greens guys i believe ?
Brian the Messiah?
GlesgA1,Military fantasist and McGonagle of prose (D’Artagnan),and kiddy on hardman Rab Wilson.These guys from Rainjurs Meeja actually take themselves seriously?
Tragic and comedic at the same time.
Surely there must be a website catering for sociopaths in 2013?
@Martyrbhoy.
There is, and they are on it! 🙂
A collaborator is someone who works for the enemy. Wodehouse was paid for his 5 broadcasts on nazi radio. At one level that makes him a collaborator. The broadcasts themselves are a cheerful and funny account of his internment. Wodehouse’s broadcasts sent the message to the US that life under nazi Germany wasn’t really that bad after all. Tell that to the 6 million Jews they gassed.
Wodehouse was befriended by Planck, a member of the Paris embassy’s press department, whose job it was to recruit prison camp detainees to broadcast propaganda to the US and Bitain. Wodehouse denied knowing Planck, but a file in an MI5 file revealed a letter wherein Wodehouse refers to Planck as “my Hollywood friend” – before the war Planck had been a Hollywood extra. Planck also transferred 560,000F into Wodehouse’s wife’s Swiss account in late 1944.
He was extremely reluctant to condemn nazis, even when pressed. Hence his pathetic “I don’t hate in the plural”. It would have been so much easier for him to say “Nazi Germany was an abomination and most nazis should rot in hell”. He was no Lord Haw Haw, but he did collaborate with nazi Germany. Call it naivety if it makes you feel better.
Thanks for the post JB. More a “useful idiot” rather than a collaborator. That sounds about right.
Ed, he was well rewarded for his “stupidity” and, rather conveniently, every decision he made in nazi Germany after his internment was to his personal benefit. Not that stupid.
SEPULTURA : TRACK CALLED, CHAOS A.D. COULD SOMEONE STICK IT ON PLEASE! HAIL HAIL!
Pretty sure that was an album title and not a song.
the qc’d lbc is a big piece of jigsaw
At the EGM( or before) the vast majority of shareholders will want CG and his cohorts gone, they are now the biggest threat to their investment. They will also want CW paid off out of the original directors percentage, and to be honest Rangers are better off rid of them both.
The only person who can make money out of this mischief is CW, and its probably only half true but that doesn’t matter to the fans, they are not as discerning nor as forgiving as I.
Who is being fed this information, the Rangers fans.
@Niall
Just checked the link you used for Wodehouse and lo and behold – Guess What your Institute for Historical Review is described in numerous websites as:
This one is from the Princeton, edu site but there are probably hundreds to choose from:
‘The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an American organization that describes itself as a “public-interest educational, research and publishing center dedicated to promoting greater public awareness of history.”
‘Critics have accused it of being an antisemitic “pseudo-scholarly body” with links to neo-Nazi organizations, and assert that its primary purpose is to disseminate views denying key facts of Nazism and the genocide of Jews and others.
‘It has been described as the “world’s leading Holocaust denial organization’.
Now why does none of that surprise me about the kind of site you are happy to base your argument on.
Eco
You can’t be serious that Niall cited the IHR?
I thought everyone knew about the IHR.
These are the people who champion folks like Holocaust denier and proven liar David Irving.
I am extremely disappointed.
Not as disappointed as me, I blame my laziness.
@ Niall
Deflection again and definitely denial
I blame your lack of intellect. What was that you said about being more discerning than most Rangers supporters? Lol.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 10:30 pm
Not as disappointed as me, I blame my laziness.
=====================================
Its not laziness, just an anxiety to find facts to suit your prejudice.
Oh!…and stupidity.
There are countess reputable sources that confirm what I posted, my poor choice of source does not change the evidence.
@Ed Paisley
Sad but true I’m afraid 😦
ecojon,
Please study the evidence of his own words and make up your own mind, it is truly unkind to link PG with anti-semitism, and he was not awarded a knighthood for being an anti-semitic collaborator. I don’t believe you have read his works or else we would not be having this discussion.
We can dig out every source we can find but the evidence is his own words, watch the film coming out and then get back to me. Here is a right wing source giving the details of the drama.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2289719/PG-Wodehouse-Nazi-traitor-TV-drama-shed-new-light-propaganda-Germany.html
Christ, you don’t half go on, the real story was about the dangers of hating in plurals
Niall, now you base your “evidence” on a TV drama! Ha ha. And one reviewed by that impeccable august academic rag, the daily mail. Ha ha. You’re a joke. Ha ha. You don’t do debating, do you? No, the real story wasn’t about “hating in plurals”, it was about you trying to be a clever clogs on every post and getting your ass whipped, again. Thanks for making my knight. Ha ha.
Johnboy,
Did I miss a meeting, when did you whip my ass in this debate, and I will repeat it one more time, there is no evidence he was a collaborator, its simple, innocence until proven guilty, your opinion and mine is irrelevant.
I never said the tv drama was evidence, his words are evidence, winners in a debate do not have to invent positions to attack.
John,
Read his words.
” In fact, nobody who reads the text of those broadcasts today can fail to see that they are no more than light-hearted accounts of Wodehouse’s capture and internment by the Nazis. They contain not one single word of pro-Nazi, or anti-British, sentiment. Indeed, they poked fun at the Germans, and made clear that morale among British internees was high.”
A better source: http://www.pgwodehousebooks.com/war.htm
@Niall
Deflection again of the highest order by blaming me for your original error and trying to brow-beat me into submission 🙂
All you had to say was you got it wrong by stating he was in a concentration camp when it was actually just an internment camp. But you felt unable to admit your error of fact which actually reveals quite a lot about you.
But what reveals more about you is that you have stated ‘in your eyes’ that there is no difference between a concentration camp and an internment camp in Nazi Germany. It would appear to me you have been spending far too long on Holocaust denial sites.
Still you’ll be happy to hear you’ve made my ignore list and I have to say you well deserve it and I will be happy to be able to ignore your deflection in future as you are the type of person I have no wish to converse with as tonight you have revealed not only what a closed mind you have but also what a dangerous one as well.
ecojon,
The debate was about PG being a collaborator, I accepted the difference between the two camps and you condemn one of my sources but not its content.
The bottom line is you cannot prove he was a collaborator, MI5 had an opinion and it was rejected by the Govt, now you may speculate all you want, he is innocent of collaboration because he was never tried and convicted of collaboration.
Read his words for goodness sake, you know nothing about his views.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 10:28 pm
Christ, you don’t half go on, the real story was about the dangers of hating in plurals.
=================================================
Niall…you are an arse.
Carntyne
Time after time he makes a total bollocks of himself, but it never seems to deter him. Stupidity matched only by the size of his ego.
Carntyne.
You’re so touchy.
Niall said to eco: “I have evidence that contradicts yours”.
Evidence? A loopy right-wing jew-hating pro-nazi website. Lol.
John,
the evidence is his own words, if you have not heard nor read them then you must abstain.
@JohnBhoy
I really don’t give a sh*t about the beauty or humour in what anyone writes if beneath it all they are a rotten human being. And Wodehouse used his skills after the war to viciously lampoon his critics who attacked his Nazi collaboration.
What matters – even with great writers – is how they actually live their lives and the courage they show in adversity. That shows what’s truly in their hearts.
This privileged fop just wanted as comfortable a life as possible under the Nazis while millions were exterminated.
Wodehouse, along with the local English bartender and English garage owner, was taken to an internment camp in Upper Silesia in present-day Poland, while Ethel was put under house arrest.The German Foreign Ministry got to hear that Wodehouse had been interned, but he was due to be released in months as internees over 60 were no longer counted as combatants.So they approached his camp commandant, Buchelt, who persuaded the old boy to agree – on his release – to make some broadcasts on Nazi Radio directly to the Americans, who were not at this time at war with Germany, to reassure his readers in the US that he had survived and been treated well. He seems to have had no idea he was being used as propaganda.The broadcasts were perfectly innocent comic accounts of life in the camp, but they were picked up by the BBC monitoring service.The Minister of Information in England was keen to get America into the war and to suggest that all Germans were torturers. He got a journalist to make a BBC broadcast calling Wodehouse a traitor and falsely accusing him of buying his freedom.
Two sides to every story.
I am taking down the names of every country who does not give any votes for Bonnie Tyler, its my hate in plurals list.
@Niall,
Yes ………..
This is what I was alluding to cam recently ……… it’s survivable …. FFS pay the guy off ….. make him disappear ……….. I also said the board will be a lot different to what is expected (then) ……… yes, yes ….. easy to say with hindsight …. !
Whyte is currently in financial distress …………… and legal !
As I said before ……….
if only Green had not got greedy ………….
If only Green had not broke the circle ……….
The plan would ‘perversely’ have worked ………..
Project Blue was a plan too far !
newtz.
I agree that it is survivable -just ! Also agree that cw should have been paid off. If there was a ‘unified board’ or even a consensus of all shareholders, then they could all have ‘chipped in’ to get rid of this troublesome pest. It all depends on what cw wants,and the longer the circus continues the harder it becomes for an organised retreat and consolidation behind new front lines. I use the battlefield terminology because it describes the various factions, the in-fighting, and of course the 5th columnists undermining everything, just when it appears that all is going swimmingly.
If Whyte walks away with anything from the Rangers saga, then we can all pack up and give in.
PS – I detect that in some cases, morality is now out of the window and Craigy is there new hero. I always did say the HMRC morality was selfish and hugely hypocritical.
@newtz.
I don’t see they can afford a payoff. Ticketus are into Craigy for £18 biggies! Sevco can’t afford to honour the Ticketus season book sale. That cost Craigy dear!
A pay off, would need to be a growth strangling repayment plan.
The spivs might sign up to that as they leave and saddle Sevco with it.
Needs to be what it needs to be …….
many ways to skin a cat ….. !
Maybe they should talk to Craig …… look at the deals he dealt up ………
btw …….. all of what i am saying goes against the grain ….. !
Just looking at it from spiv’s angle ….
In the long run ……..
they are all on the watch list now …..
I still believe it is misinformation, and selectively edited with bias, if this was all true a national network would pay a fortune for it, this suggests it is not true and there is money elsewhere to be had in producing it.
book and film rights reserved
Niall, surely if these documents are fake it has repercussions on the share value which to me would set the person leaking these up for criminal charges.
There is one thing that interests me, if the original investors( the real money men) had accepted the share CW and CG were taking for a CVA, who got CWs share when CG dumped him at the asset sale ?
CG is hardly going to give away 5 or 10 percent.
Niall Walker
May 18, 2013 at 7:43 pm
…”at this point in time I began to lose the will to live, and am now kicking away the chair.
==================================================
Ah!…If only…
@ carntyne
Oh yes!
Another one who says he doesn’t care about me,now stay on topic, do you think PG was effectively in a concentration camp ?
Was PG not ‘effectively in administration’… lets play ‘animal,company,country………. sorry n couldnt resist it.
no doubt u will b back for more tomorrow efter the bloo toon trip.
Either the information from Charlotte Fakeover is true or it’s false. If it’s false someone will assert their right to take action against the publisher to compensate for damage done to their reputation. If it’s true…
I still see a significant number of voices on Rangers forums supporting the “return” of Charles Green (although he’s never actually been away). I also do not see a lot of obvious support for Malcolm Murray. To me this is astonishing. It appears to me that Murray is a legitimate businessman with a reputation to uphold and is genuinely wanting to see Rangers return to a healthy state. He also seems to be showing admirable strength of character holding firm in the face of the onslaught of the Green faction’s ongoing attempts to remove him.
I think the fans are hopelessly misguided and simply don’t want to believe Green is only going to fleece them then scarper. The wealth of evidence now available that Green is a greedy, devious operator is just ignored. His bruising style appeals to the WATP mentality and herein lies the problem. Malcolm Murray’s approach to the task of rebuilding Rangers would probably be a steady and sensible one. The fans are just not interested in this. They want only to get back as quickly as possible to lording it over everyone else and trampling opposition underfoot. Green tells them what they want to hear.
If Malcolm Murray is ousted then I just cannot see a good outcome for them. It’s clear Green’s mob have no affinity for the club and simply want to make off with as much money as they can. He more or less admiited this at the outset when he said he didn’t see himself being there for a year. It’s just taken longer than he initially thought because the assurances he seems to have received about retaining SPL status fell apart. The timescale may have changed but the ultimate goal certainly hasn’t.
I genuinely feel sorry for the decent section of the Rangers support but I fear the WATP element will always hold sway. And that’s why most Scottish football fans don’t want them back. Not unless they start again completely afresh at the very bottom as a new club and learn some humility and respect on the way back up.
@charliedon
Couldn’t agree more – but Malcolm Murray has been the target for a determined and vicious whispering campaign since Green failed to force him out. A lot of the Rangers sites are riddled with obvious dodgy posters and Murray has been continually villified.
Another amazing phenomenon is this recurring theme that Green saved the club by putting money in when we all know that he hasn’t parted with a penny – well maybe a quid but he would have reclaimed that back in expenses.
It’s a real time warp mentality and fascinating to observe especially the way they take some facts and discard everything that doesn’t suit and get left with only what backs-up their argument.
We can all fall into that trap but usually fellow posters will crash whatever ivory tower we have built with facts and bring us back to reality with a bang. Doesn’t seem to work on rangers sites.
And the longer I observe them the more I see what a deeply divided support they actually are and riven by factionalism with really vicious personal attacks employed against their own.
I keep thinking that probably the bulk of the 9,000 who didn’t renew their STs last year were the fans who aren’t interested in militant loyalism and who don’t go the Supremacy angle with any conviction but just move their lips to make it look as though they do.
If I’m right that truly is a bad sign for the club – in some ways I think they are in a more dangerous place than they were a year ago and it really has the potential for a messy collapse. And the talk of all the new players is either pure moonbeams or if even only half true will turn into financial madness.
I truly thought almost a year ago that starting in the third was the best way for them to go, not as a punishment so much, as a means of giving ordinary Bears a chance to determine the future direction of the club. For a wide variety of reasons it just hasn’t happened and so far I don’t see any sign of changes in culture.
But anything could happen and that;s the real scary bit because it has the potential to seriously impact on Scottish Football.
@ecojon
Spot on Eco. I meant to mention the recurring myth that Green put money in but the thought got lost along the way. The likes of Malcolm Murray and Walter Smith were only required to be on board in the early stages until Green & co got their feet under the table and got the share issue underway. Now they are completely surplus to the Green consortium’s reuirements and are just a barrier to their plan. The consortium no longer needs to keep up appearances and if they succeed in removing Murray I reckon the plan will be executed swiftly, the remaining money will disappear, quickly followed by the members of the consortium.
There won’t be many pieces left for any “Rangers men” to pick up.
@charliedon
What I also remember him saying when he arrived was that he wouldn’l be putting a penny into Rangers and wouldn’t have any shares. Then when he got his 5 million shares for hee-haw he said he was leaving them to his grandchildren.
I wonder if there is some family connection linking his grandchildren to the Easdale family – I mean chico is a plain talking Yorkshireman who tells it like it is, isn’t he 🙂
And there’s still some Bears want to see him back – I truly don’t know how much more can be exposed about charlie to waken them up.
@ecojon
Correct – I remember him saying he would never hold shares. It’s just one of the many falsehoods Green has thrown about. But his acolytes seem to have this amazing ability to just filter out and forget any uncomfortable facts that don’t fit in with their mindset.
If I were out to make money, I’d be Cw or CG. Only a congenital idiot would believe that they could make a penny from the car crash down Govan way. The fact is that they, like SDM before them, have the only thing worth anything, the bricks & mortar. If you want the circus to carry on, you’re going to have to buy the tent!
@Niall Walker
The bone of contention has always been the Ticketus deal which was used to pay off Lloyds. As a major creditor; Ticketus have fought back and are on course to recover their investment in RFC from Craig Whyte.
The predatory nature of the players involved is plain to see.
Craig Whyte is under threat from Ticketus. He is now placed in the frontline to champion appropriate reparation to satisfy the original deal made with Ticketus, which can only be achieved if the sale to Sevco Scotland is made void by BDO.
His only defence to validate his involvement with Sevco 5088, as already suggest, was to restore his reputation.
Ticketus were keen to remain involved subsequent to RFC entering administration. If that Mr. Whyte can demonstrate that his main concern was always to establish a fresh link with Ticketus and newco; he may be able to satisfy BDO that it is in the creditors’ interest to make Green’s alleged illegal purchase of the assets void.
If the sale was indeed illegal and in breach of trust; BDO would have a duty to review the situation; especially if that a better deal can be concluded for the creditors.
Whatever the outcome (due to the SFA ban) Whyte can not legitimately have any connection to the day to day running of TRFC. As things stand; Sevco 5088 has made no contribution in that regard. I would suggest that if the sale is made void; Craig Whyte could make a clean break from his association with RFC and also leave the club in a better position than when he first arrived (albeit playing football in an inferior division).
As has been suggest; that TRFC is on the brink of admin 2; it would save face (of sorts) if that the original sale was made void and the bidding process is invited once again (perhaps Bill Miller could re-enter the fray).
Ray,
I see where you are coming from up to Sevco5088, but then you lost me, if the deal goes back to Sevco5088 then why should it go back any further ? What are thr grounds for dismissing the original deal with Sevco5088 ?
Are you suggesting everything starts again because CW got defrauded of a share of Sevco 5088, I just cannot see it.
@Niall Walker
If we accept that Craig Whyte is party to Sevco 5088; and that Charles Green reneged on his agreement with Earley and Whyte (that Green was acting as a front); the sale must be considered to be deceptive if not fraudulent on many levels.
Most crucially; Whyte is in breach of insolvency rules by being party to the purchasing consortium led by Green.
The subsequent breach of trust by Green compounds the already compromised transaction.
If the above scenario is substantiated; BDO would have no option other that to make the entire sale void.
If that no criminality is involved; Craig Whyte would retain his initial holding over the assets, therefore, we would be back to square one.
Whether there has been any crime or not; there would be financial liability in particular to the share holders.
” Most crucially; Whyte is in breach of insolvency rules by being party to the purchasing consortium led by Green.”
Ray, It is too late to check but I am positive no such restriction exists, I know of many previous owners who have bought back the assets from the liquidator. If such a restriction did exist then CW does not have any claim on the assets in Sevco 5088, don’t you agree ?
@Niall Walker
The secretive nature of the deal between the parties involved in Sevco would include barring SFA knowledge of Whyte’s involvement.
Once Whyte realised he was being shafted he had nothing to lose by exposing the nefarious dealing that would otherwise have been kept secret.
Whyte has scuppered the entire transaction.
Ray,
I do not believe the original sale will be reversed because of the SFA or Whyte’s involvement.
@Niall Walker
The SFA has no bearing on the legitimacy of the sale.
If it can be proven that Whyte was party to Sevco 5088; and that Green transferred the assets without any consideration to other share holders; Green will have hell to pay.
BDO would be obliged to consider every option, including the reversal of the sale. As things stand; I would suggest that that would be the best possible outcome for Craig Whyte and TRFC.
The SFA is likely to downplay any involvement of Craig Whyte and Sevco 5088.
Ticketus are on the way to recovering their money from Whyte ? They accepted Whyte’s coporate guarentee,s, which they are now in the process of liquidating as their will be nothing except more debt in their. Hopefully though this is when Whyte is caught for fraud as he never had the security he said he had
The suggestion from charlotte the harlot appears to be that the deal from selling Rangers to CW was a deal to rid Rangers of its liabilities and then for a blue knight (even a previous owner is a possibility) to ride to the rescue but is has been been somewhat screwed up(greed) along the way. Spivco has become not a phoenix but an albatross to Scottish Football (legal definition of phoenix may vary from mine).
and yes ownership may revert back if it is all a fraud? We await validation of the documents- red herrings, smoking guns, pocket aces and loaded dice- bring them on.
Glugay
Their = there. their =there.- I blame the schools.
Ticketus want 18 million from CW but CW will not get18 million for his share in Sevco 5088 assuming he wins. He is just trying to make up for some of his losses.
@Niall Walker
If that Ticketus can get back in the loop at Ibrox; Whyte would most probably be off the hook as far as liability to them is concerned. The only way Ticketus could recover contracts at Ibrox is for BDO to deem the sale to Green to be void; and negotiations of a sale to reopen.
Did i write their not once but twice there, tut tut
Whyte will be put away long before he gets to the chance to take Green to court, he will also be penniless by then, and wont be able to afford to raise an action
glugger.
There, there.
Niall walker. You have squirmed and wriggled all night but its over.
Give us the French hello and put yer hands up.
PG obviously did and didn’t give a hoot so long as his bath was warm and his wine was chilled.
Great fun guys.
Terrific debating
” Though Wodehouse was ostracised by the British establishment after the war, he was delivered from harsher treatment by the intervention of Malcolm Muggeridge. Muggeridge, before joining the Daily Telegraph, was in 1945 an MI6 officer. Finding himself in Paris where Wodehouse was living he took the trouble to intervene. I remember Muggeridge telling me some years later that he was struck by Wodehouse’s complete lack of political awareness. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/8724155/PG-Wodehouse-was-foolishly-naive-over-Nazis.html
“I’m not absolutely certain of the facts, but I rather fancy it’s Shakespeare who says that it’s always just when a fellow is feeling particularly braced with things in general that Fate sneaks up behind him with the bit of lead piping.”
― P.G. Wodehouse, Carry on, Jeeves
Interesting tweet from Charlotte re today’s Tom English story which might, of course, be all smoke and mirrors but nonetheless of interest. The smoke and mirrors refers to Charlotte – TE’s story is just poor in certain regards but I will say this for him he often is the first of the MSM pack to put his helmet above the parapet.
But it’s usually on the end of a long stick and his head is kept safely low waiting for reaction.
Charlotte Fakeovers @CharlotteFakes 7h
Dear @TomEnglishSport Report is so far wide of the mark. Don’t you think CW has a legal team battling me right now? http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-green-whyte-team-would-break-all-rules-1-2936494 …
Ecojon,
sorry, I didn’t spot that you had already put that up 🙂
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/ibrox-board-fractured-still-by-the-factions.21116296
Richard Wilson’s take on current situation at Ibrox and it’s interesting that he seems to have softened his line somewhat on Murray by suggesting that he could step-down as chair but remain as director and generally he recognises Murray’s strong points rather than just repeat the personal smears used to attack Murray by his enemies and possibly manufactured by them as well.
Still he points to Dave King as the ‘salvation’ man of Rangers and that might be the case at least in the eyes of supporters but at the end of the day King is a ruthless businessman when required and might want his £20 million back. I also wonder whether he is fully au fait with the current financial situation at Rangers and short to medium term prospects.
Having said that Wilson does raise the elephant in the room re King and that’s the SFA’s fit and proper test, Disappointingly he says that King’s lawyers have explored this matter with the SFA but doesn’t give any indication as to the outcome of that process nor is their any quote from King.
Indeed I can’t see one single quote in Wilson’s piece from any of the multitude of Ibrox characters that he mentions. The story is basically a stodgy repetition of the story and it hasn’t been moved on an inch which is disappointing because Wilson has the ability and contacts to do much better. Perhaps all will be revealed on Monday in The Herald.
And of course there is no mention of Charlotte which is possibly one of the few newsworthy items in recent days in the Rangers saga. No sticking the helmet above the parapet here a la TE.
Now that is surprising considering Richard’s public twitter exchange yesterday with said lady, or at least a spandex-clad Craigie, when Richard begged her to stop the striptease, drop the veils and reveal all. I know how you feel mate 🙂
However, unlike the MSM, I want to see the docs to analyse them and try to discern where the truth, if any, might lie. I have the distinct feeling that the MSM now only see the story as revealing Charlotte’s identity. Par for the course on this one as the taste of succulent lamb takes a long time to dissipate and the thought of another invite to the banqueting table even longer.
Staring at documents and hoping they are true is hardly Bispectral Analysis, and the crux of the matter is the identity behind the source material, historical analysis 101. Without this there can be no story.
Who is Charlotte?what is she,
That all our swains commend her?
Holy,fair and wise is she,
The heavens such grace did lend her,
that she might admired be.
Excellent debating gentlemen. Personally, I couldn’t give a flying f@@k about Wodehouse and whether he was a nazi or not. The higher echelons of the English establishment were as, if not more, crooked as the spivs we are witnessing now. Close ranks to the undesirables. “I’ll have a word with so and so and we’ll sort out this sorry mess in the morning” (said in the only voice they know, annoying plummy whine)
Now if these clowns in the SFA will grow a pair and suspend the toxics clubs license, then we may begin to see an end to this charade. Close the door before they gallop away and pass on info to the police. The Masonic element could play but what else is there. BDO seem to have fallen asleep. The judge comes to a decision that no sane man can comprehend and the spivs have led them all a merry dance.
Charlotte will now do the job for these idiots in the SFA. We wanted transparency and they gave us the 5 way agreement ffs. Without the Internet bam pots, these bast@rds would be getting away without question. Shut the place down, suspend the license and swarm the place with a clean, incorruptible force of honest law abiding officers.
Charlotte claims this piece by Tom English is wide of the mark.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/sfl-division-three/tom-english-green-whyte-team-would-break-all-rules-1-2936494
Then goes on to say “Don’t you think CW has a legal team battling me right now?”
Is this what you expected for office of legal firm to QC your claim …. ?
mind you it is opposite a kebab shop ……
ps its on 2nd floor …. ! …. above cafe …. sorry the bistro/conference room …..
I see that Tom English is having a pop at Celtic supporters for dissecting the online Charlotte documents. Tom doesn’t like bloggers doing the job that he should be doing but won’t do. Rather than attempting to ascertain the veracity of the documents and discuss the content in detail, he prefers instead to mock social media in general and Celtic posters in particular. Then again, his record on proper analysis is pretty poor. Here’s a wee taster on his sycophantic and hopelessly misplaced thoughts on Craig Whyte, way back in 2011 (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/tom-english-craig-whyte-s-rangers-takeover-bid-has-been-a-tortuous-process-1-1595764), including his intentionally insulting but comically prescient conclusion:
“[It] is an indisputable fact that he has proven he has the funds to buy Murray’s shares and pay-off the debt owing to Lloyds Banking Group. As far as bona fides go, that’s not a bad start. Whyte has deposited 28m as proof of his financial clout. He has spent a large six-figure sum on lawyers and accountants and due diligence stretching back six months [lol JohnBhoy]. He has said publicly, more than once, that he is committed to investing 25m over five years on new players. He has stayed in the game and has worked out a “mechanism” to deal with whatever HMRC may through at the club. [ha ha how did that mechanism turn out Tom?]. He has stayed in the deal, also, despite the nasty little surprise of a 2.8m unpaid tax bill was discovered. He has hung around and inched things forward despite all of that and regardless of the two UEFA charges of sectarian chanting that are hanging over the club at present.”
Then he criticises Alastair Johnson for trying to warn the Rangers fans that Whyte is a conman:
“What is Johnston thinking? That Whyte will take control of the club and then go, “HaHa! Fooled ye all! I don’t have another bob to my name! We’re all going down in flames!”
Tom, stick to writing the funnies on a Sunday.
@johnBhoy
I had forgotten that one – a good laughing start to the day 🙂
@JohnBhoy
That’s an epic fail by TE to rival even Traynor’s “billionaire with wealth off the radar” gaffe.
Morning JohnBhoy,
Bloggers cannot ascertain the veracity of the documents by discussing it amongst themselves, there is only one way this can be done and you can’t verify the author or the documents sitting at a laptop.
I Seychelles on the sevco shore. Repeat that five* times.
LOL …. that’s a good one ….
tht
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