Accusations of “Rangers Hating” – As Much Basis as Those of Witchcraft?

The Black Flap responded to a comment by Maggie which had referred to a “whispering campaign” inside Ibrox against Chairman Malcolm Murray.

His comment addressed Maggie’s thought and also my “challenge” to show evidence of my “hate”, “bile” and “bias”.

————————————————

Mr Flap said:-

Tell me. How do YOU know there is a whispering campaign? You don’t.
This is the problem with majority of posts here. Biased agenda. Hate filled conjectures:
share issue would fail – it didn’t
Rangers don’t have enough monies to see out season – bollocks
New winding up order – rubbish

That’s the biased agenda right there Pauly. Or just 3 examples of such which have been posited by you recently.

————————————————

The Green v Murray “Whispering Campaign”

What is the truth behind the dispute between Messrs Green and Murray? Who knows?

However it seems to be clear that there has been an issue, either as detailed in the hyperbolic piece by Keith Jackson, where the import was that if Murray did not go, then Green would, or the more restrained coverage by Richard Wilson in the Herald.

The best evidence, I think, of the story coming from inside the listed façade of Ibrox emerges from the coverage of the issue by Mr Leggat. As regular readers will be aware, Mr Leggat is a blogger who can fairly be described as “provocative”.  He also seems to have excellent connections within Rangers, as exemplified by his being able to use Ibrox for launching his book recently. Whereas he initially was sceptical of Mr Green, calling him a “snake oil salesman” he now has the fervour of the converted, being a most vocal supporter of the Yorkshireman.

Mr Leggat rubbished the Record’s story, suggesting various base motives for it, and alleging that it was written despite the journalist in question knowing the “truth”. A serious accusation, as such an experienced journalist as Mr Leggat would be well aware.

(Mind you, his reports that Mark Daly of the BBC is the object of an investigation “closing in” relating to the award-winning Inside Story programme seems to ignore the journalists’ “Golden Rule”, namely that sources should be protected, at all costs).

Mr Leggat refers to his own “unimpeachable source” regarding the Green/Murray story. What makes me think that the story has come from within Ibrox?

First of all, one would not imagine that the “boardroom bust-up”, to use a tabloid phrase, would be common knowledge. It was, presumably, played out in a Board meeting, not on the public stage.

Mr Leggat then made comments directly regarding Mr Murray:-

Twenty four hours after Jackson’s story in the Record appeared Richard Wilson in the Herald, a man with good, close, confidential and trustworthy sources inside the Blue Room, made it clear that it was Malcolm Murray’s public behaviour which was causing concern in the Blue Room.

Malcolm Murray may think the time he spends in London is time when he is not on public show as the chairman of Rangers. That is not the case.

As to how the situation regarding Malcolm Murray will play out? My prediction is that there will be a negotiated departure with kind words spoken by both sides.

Anything else could perhaps prove to be too dangerous to Malcolm Murray for him to contemplate.

I am sure Mr Leggat intended no threat in his words, and that it was unfortunate that Mr Murray, if he was reading it, might have taken such from what Mr Leggat had to say.

In assessing where the “leak” to Mr Leggat came from, one should normally look towards the beneficiary of such a story.

Was it Mr Murray? No.

Was it the “Rangers haters”? Possibly, but it is highly unlikely that Mr Leggat would print a story to assist the massed ranks of “haters”.

Was it Mr Green? Certainly. And as Mr Leggat is one of the most high-profile and vocal proponents of Mr Green, and also a man full of praise for the Rangers Director of Communications, James Traynor, one is led to the conclusion that, indeed, two plus two equals four.

(That is NOT to say necessarily that it was either Mr Green or Mr Traynor who spoke to Mr Leggat. Indeed they might not have been involved in the decision making process at all. However, minions are usually keen to please their masters, as for example, happened when Henry II of England said “Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?” and as a result some of his knights murdered the man who became Saint Thomas of Canterbury.)

Some knights take exception to Thomas Becket, well-known to be a "King Henry II hater"

Some knights take exception to Thomas Becket, well-known to be a “King Henry II hater”

(For the avoidance of doubt, I am not suggesting that any employees of Rangers have plotted the murder of anyone.)

Mr Leggat also clearly has sources in Ibrox. On the day following receipt by me of correspondence from Rangers lawyers at 10.30pm, Mr Leggat published a blog referring to court action being taken against me. Now he was wrong in that there was no such court action, and instead an exchange of correspondence, but the story could only have emerged from Ibrox or from its lawyers.

I would be astonished if the legal firm in question disclosed the information, and if it had, I am sure it would have got the details right.

So, as a long winded answer to Mr Flap, I think Maggie’s reference to a “whispering campaign” against Mr Murray is supported by the circumstantial evidence. In fact calling it “whispering” understates the volume at which the story was passed on!

The “Charges” Against Me

Mr Flap has been the first person to actually suggest where evidence of my bias can be found. Indeed he refers to my “Biased agenda and Hate filled conjectures”.

He tells me that three stories “posited by me recently” provide the proof.

These are as follows, with Mr Flap’s snappy summary after each:-

  • Share issue would fail – it didn’t
  • Rangers don’t have enough monies to see out season – bollocks
  • New winding up order – rubbish

I wrote before about the coverage of the Orlit Enterprise story and how people read into it what they wanted to see, rather than what was actually written.

I think Mr Flap has done the same here.

I had a good look through the posts I have written referring to the share issue. I have not found any where I stated that the share issue would fail. Indeed as I wrote shortly before the offer closed:-

We will find out soon enough the extent of the issue’s success, which will, I am sure, shock many.

I also have not found any piece written by me suggesting that Rangers do not have the money to see out the season. I know this has been speculated on elsewhere. However all such musings have the problem that, until figures are published, it is guess work.

Last summer I analysed the Duff & Phelps figures and speculated on how this might affect the progress of Rangers in season 2012-2013, but that was not a prediction that it would run out of cash. I know too that some have suggested there will be, or more likely are hoping for, a second administration event.

As matters stand there is no concrete evidence supporting that as a conclusion.

Finally, as regards the “new winding up order”, I referred in what I have written about it to the pieces by Alex Thomson, the BBC report, and to the official comments by Rangers. I am not sure which bit of the reportage I got wrong in Mr Flap’s eyes.

So sadly I must tell him that he does not win the prize of a tea and scone with me in St Patrick’s Church Hall in Coatbridge.

St Pats

Recent weeks especially, as the shrieking about “Rangers haters” seems to have got louder and louder, have made it clear how many people form views without the benefit of any evidence at all.

As far as me being a “Rangers hater” who spouts, spews or spits “bile” goes, the “evidence” of this seems to be as follows.

A Rangers Supporter – Paul – you hate Rangers and spout bile about the club, don’t you?

Paul McConville – No I do not. Show me the evidence of me doing so.

ARS – Yes, you do. We all know you do.

PMCC – No, I don’t.

ARS – Yes, you do. Because you deny it, that proves your denial is false, as we know you are a Rangers hater.

PMCC – But there is no actual evidence you can show me, is there?

ARS – That proves it again. The fact that you attempt so successfully to hide it, proves it is true.

I suspect that this “logic” was applied throughout the Middle Ages to witches! It lay behind the operation of the “ducking stool”.

Some Rangers fans gather to discover if a blogger is a "Rangers hater".

Some Rangers fans gather to discover if a blogger is a “Rangers hater”.

In those circumstances it is therefore impossible to prove that one is not a “Rangers hater” simply because the starting point for the “discussion” assumes I am. Indeed, the more I point out that I am not, the more this is used as evidence of me hiding my “hating” credentials!

It is all rather amusing.

Posted by Paul “Witch-Smeller Pursuivant” McConville

NB – For the avoidance of doubt,I am NOT suggesting that Rangers fans indulge in “witch dunking” or other acts of violence against those they perceive as “enemies” or “haters”.

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120 Comments

Filed under Blogging, Rangers

120 responses to “Accusations of “Rangers Hating” – As Much Basis as Those of Witchcraft?

  1. Steve

    A few minutes spent listening to their fans’ song sheet might help to explain why people feel the way they do about them: the last hour on ESPN.

    • willy wonka

      Rangers have already made an announcement on their official site condemning some of the songs sung by a section of the Rangers support today. It’s been carried by television and radio [the guys at Radio Clyde are penning their letters of complaint to the SPL and SFA at the moment].
      It’s just a pity that Selliks directors and manager, instead of crawling to the Green Brigade , don’t put out the same kind of message following every weeks PIRAfest.

      • mick

        Whataboutya the rep once to everything they do wrong funny Sally on telly didn’t here it well done to Espn for highlighting it they will be on the hate list now already being called a timmy channel lol

      • Tut tut Master Willy Wonka. Go back into your nursery and play with your toys. Your too immature to participate in grown up and serious discussions.

      • Why do all Sevco supporters always connect there team singing to the great Celtic, Was it not eufa that has found Sevco guilty of the songs that they sing and not Celtic Supporters. Please stop bringing the celtic into your Sectarianism hatred of us. Hail Hail

  2. MSM

    Ecojon {February 21} Possibly your Oz contacts could find some info. I wondered if Chuckles met up with the OZ Rangers fan Alan Mackenzie from Perth WA who pledged £1 million apparently used as an investment in TRFCL and which I assume was swapped for RIFC Plc shares. It was just that I thought this would have been used by chuckles as a PR exercise and was surprised there’s no mention.
    Just catching up on Pauls’ site {had to go New Zealand}, believe me when I say I HAD to go to NZ that being work related and not through personal choice.
    Quite bizarre that you should mentioned the $1 million cheque I have been trying to track down the authenticity of that story/donation/contribution for some time and without success {I emailed all the Rangers Fan Clubs here in Oz}, Astonishingly no-one replied – I think I’ll resend them just to ask for an update.
    All is not lost – last week a colleague from London – was dispatched to Perth {Australia – not Scotland}; hopefully they may be able to infiltrate the dark side and provide some information. For the record {in advance of them being accused as biased or a “Rangers Haters}, they are 100% English, from a non-Catholic family and do not support Celtic or Rangers and I will shame them – they support Blackburn Rovers {enough said}.

    • ecojon

      @MSM

      It’s just that his name appeared as a Rangers shareholder on a list – maybe someone with the same name but big coincidence.

      Hopefully something turns up.

  3. mick

    Is it true Chris graham has had botox on the lips for his tv shows a read that on the net

  4. JP

    You are posing the wrong questions Paul. You should ask them whats wrong with hating rangers?

    • mick

      Consumer choice love hate a product like dislike a product if fans of findus start bullying reviewers online this would be a out rage what’s the difference between a food product and a sport product it’s mental to see this push to see a product liked

  5. Bill Fraser

    I’m beginning to believe that the need to find enemies and haters has more to do with the bears own fears about their club than anything which outsiders might say about them. In normal times any club which is the object of hate-campaigns by other fans usually laughs it off as jealousy. Afer all, what should it matter to the bears what people have to say about their club, which has 500 mega-fans. ‘The club is new” say a few journalists and suddenly it’s a reason to boycott all the media in the country, except the Sun, which used to be bought by most folk for a couple of tit’s on page 3 as, news-wise, it wasn’t worth the trip to the newsagent. We have blacklists of people who have said bad things about The Rangers when previously they would have been laughed at. So what is the problem?

    The problem is that those outside the club are expressing what the Rangers fans fear and yet won’t admit to themselves. They want to believe that Chas will build up the club to it’s former magnificence and yet they are afraid he’s going to do a bunk with all the cash and leave them in the lurch again. They want to believe that Sally, the leg-end, is the messiah who is going to lead them to European Cup glory but they know that he is not the man for the job. They know that what the whole world is telling them is true but they just can’t face up to the truth and so the messenger has to be put to death.

    Until they take their fingers out of their ears and take their hands away from their eyes and mouths (it is possible, try it) they will continue to suffer from this chronic persecution complex they all seem to have. I don’t know wht to suggest to help them but we could always start them down the road to recovery by just ignoring them.

  6. I do not think you are a Rangers hater, but there are many who comment on here who are. And, this site which is now about football, is certainly biased. Celtic can do no wrong and Rangers can do no right. Any little thing emanating from Ibrox is seized upon and pounded to death. But the recent ludicrous antics of Mr. Lennon pass without comment. This site was certain that the Big Tax Case would be lost and that the IPO would fail. When neither came to pass no one, me excepted, had the grace to say they got it wrong. Instead the comments on here focussed on the minority opinion in the BTC and on the near insanity of those who invested in the IPO. When some of us pointed out that at 70p a share the club was a decent bet, no one cared because that was analysis and not prejudice. We now have the ludicrous specatacle of a poster daily giving us the news that RFC shares are trading at 79p (very bad in his eyes) without having the wit to realise that this represents a premium of nearly 13%. Would that all my portfolio could show the same return.

    When one makes points based on reasonable analysis, one´s credentials are impugned. Some poster recently managed to deflect from my comments by carefully analysing 3 posts of mine and concluding that I was no more a Hearts supporter than he was. Normally this would be laughable, but his use was to discredit what I had said, not by the use of a better argument but by hinting or, more or less saying, that I must be a ´Ger in disguise. If you cannot discredit the written, discredit the writer.

    You, Paul, are judged sometimes, not by what you say, but by the vicious hate which others post on this site. Maybe it´s time that you looked not only at the tone with which we treat eachother, but also by the tone of what is being said about what you write. Rangers and their supporters are not scum or huns or anything else pejorative, but they have a minority of knuckle dragging nbigots, but then the same can be said of Celtic. Rangers had their ´no catholics´ policy which was an abomination, but Celtic still fly the flag of a foreign country, knowing that it is offensive to a large number of Scots.

    • Steve Cotter

      Wow, going quite well there until the last comment. A flag is hardly offensive, dear, dear me. Very revealing about you though.

      • This particular flag is offensive to many and not just those of a Rangers persuasion or is your grasp of recent history incomplete. Celtic have begun to wrap themselves in it. Millwall, Plymouth and Arsenal all have roots back to Scotland, but I doubt they spend much time flying the saltire.

        • mick

          Millwall are londonirish and send a bus to the Irish festival a have to to meet a scot amongst them a did years in London and lived in south London and they were all Irish dads and granddad to claim a team is this or that is mental all my London family are Chelsea Millwall and gunner fans they would choke on there corn flakes reading that lol

        • The silver fhox

          This flag is only offensive to bigots.

        • Steve Cotter

          Playing chess with a pigeon, but here goes anyway: the only explanation to finding a flag offensive is if you find the country in question offensive. After all, a flag represents its people. Any thoughts on that?

        • Michael

          Well done Violet, in my few comments, I’ve also tried to point out that some Celtic fans are seen as bad as those of Rangers by many of us out-with the Glagow bubble.

          The flag itself is not offensive, just as the union flag is not offensive, the problem for both clubs is the intention behind the flying of the flag.

          For Celtic it has become seen, not as a celebration of their roots, but as support for a terrorist organisation which is anti-British. Celtic needs to remember it’s roots are in Scotland. I agree with Violet, the wrapping of the tricolour around them by Celtic is frankly a nonsense. They are a club founded by an – I presume – Irish brother, but where does that mean the club has to become some faux Irish tribute act?

          For Rangers, the Union flag is seen by others as effectively an Northern Ireland protestant unionist defence symbol. For fans of other clubs, we see it as a supremacist arrogance that the flag of our country is being appropriated by one sub-section of it.

          There has become an almost complete lack of discussion within the comments on this blog – often the original post might as well be blank as it just severs as the starting point for another round of let’s beat up Rangers, followed by the Rangers are the greatest ever response.

          Obviously intelligent people write stuff on here that should embarrass themselves, but they seem to think it’s right to abuse someone just because they hold an opposing view.

          Having said that some of the Rangers biased poster do themselves no favours with there own posts. Wasp, earlier today asked for a bit better commenting and discussion (and punctuation) on the blog and i couldn’t agree more.

          It seems to me that Paul is tarred more by the comments on the blog rather than his own posts.

          Carry on the good work Paul, and congrats on the re-cloaking, but you might want to post an half time announcement about inappropriate chants!

          • Eddie

            You say Violet is correct but the flag is not offensive. Given her position both can be true.

            • Eddie

              can’t sorry typo.

            • Michael

              Eddie, it wasn’t my intention to say the flag is offensive, but the intention to which I think it is being put. It is my opinion, that the flag is used by the support as a badge of anti-Rangers/Celticness, wether intentionally or not, that is the perception that I and others feel it is used. What is worse is that a sub-section of both supports’ seem to see the flags waving as a support for a Northern Irish dispute.

              My intent was not to criticise what the flags actually represent, but what it appears they are being used to represent – those things are not the same.

            • Eddie

              Michael I comprehend your point, although not necessarily agree with it but that was not Violets position. Yes there are plenty idiots on both sides who wish to get embroiled in troubles across the water, some more so than those who live there and wish to move on, but this in its self is no reason to find the flag offensive as some do. Your point has merit, in that, I see it more borne out in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, within both supports. However, if I found myself being offended by that I’d have to have a good long look at myself.

    • Thank you Violet.

      I will reply to your comments but later when at the computer.

      As you might imagine, I do not necessarily agree with what you say.

      I trust that responses from others to Violet will not fall into the very categories being criticised.

      Paul

      • Too late Paul, they already have look at the last sentence of Steve Cotter´s post – it offers nothing, but says so much, or at least he thinks it does.

      • ecojon

        @Paul

        I learnt a long time go to ignore everything that Violet says and what I have seen today reinforces my original decision.

        • JohnBhoy

          @ecojon

          I Agree with you ecojon. She brings nothing to the table, except pro-Rangers anti-Celtic pretend-Hearts bias, feigning crocodile tears for the future of football camaraderie. Her pals are Cam, Carson et al. That says it all.

          • cam

            Violet spoke the truth in her post and its an uncomfortable truth for the smug haters in here who hide behind a very thin veil.
            The Eco thing,JB and mick tried to hound the different coloured bird from this site due to their xenophobia and it shatters their illusions of intelligent debate.
            You can actually feel the hatred in JB’s posts bubbling just under the surface,,,that says it all.

            • JohnBhoy

              @Cam the bigot

              I once defended you against the charge of bigotry. I was wrong. You are a bigot. You mercilessly hounded mick for his use of the word “currant”, telling him that “we all know what you mean”. Yet you cracked a joke at the expense of Irish Catholics when you used the word Tim. By your own definition you are a bigot.

              Other evidence? You refer to Celtic supporters as the “great unwashed”. This is a term that has been used historically by bigots to describe Irish Catholic immigrants. Fans of your club still use it today, as evidenced by you, only against Celtic supporters. It is a racist, bigoted expression.

              Announcing that you are just here for a “laff” fools only a few people . Your puerile jokey analogies cannot disguise the despicable nature of your character. Remember your contempt of the unemployed? Xenophobia – youare the creep that vilified those who “come to these shores” and claim unemployment benefit. Yes, you had to be shamed into dropping your victimisation of those less fortunate than ourselves. Oh, and how can we all forget your memorable quote “I might not like what you say but I’ll defend the right of you to say it”, unless of course the right to free speech extends to “Rangers Haters”. Nearly forgot – what did you mean by “we’ll leave it to the Tic boys to get up to the unnatural sexual practices”? What were you alluding to Cam? Go on, entertain us all and weasel your way out of that one.

              Never mind, you’re in bad company: @Violet also hates the Irish.

            • Maggie

              @JohnBhoy
              Excellent JB,I thought the unnatural sexual practices comment
              was beyond the pale.THEY are beyond the pale.
              They actually think they’re upsetting us,God they’re pathetic in their
              desperation.

            • Cregganduff

              Yes JohnBhoy
              Cam is nasty foul-mouthed cowardly and devious. He has made a number of recent attempts to provoke Ecojon with cheap insults and name calling. I don’t believe that it is a coincidence that the piece of total low-life that goes by the name of Carson is trying something similar. Ecojon has had the dignity to ignore them both which seems to infuriate them more.

    • Bill Fraser

      Rangers have nobody to blame for their situation other than themselves. ‘Stickss and stones’. No amount of name-calling is going to make a club go bust. The fans just lapped it up with Murray’s “2 for 1” deal and the man with “wealth off the radar” was welcomed with open arms. You did it to yourselves, not Celtic, not the diddies or the media. You placed yourselves in a situaation where the rest could not let you carry on as though nothing had happened but you got yourselves there in the first place. How many more times will this have to be repeated before you get this ionto your thick skulls?

    • Sycamore7

      A number of fair points there VC. Until your last sentence. Why would the flying of a foreign flag be offensive to Scots? And why would this flag flying which is apparently so offensive equate to a racist signing regime?

      • I am not saying they do equate, but are both examples of a deep problem in Scotland and Scottish football. Many people in Scotland find the flag of Ireland offensive and all the moreso now that the manager is displaying it on his tracksuit. I doubt if the Celtic of Willie Maley and Jock gave it the same prominence.

        I have to go and do some more holiday making and will get back to the howls of outrage ASAP.

        • Maggie

          @Violet Carson
          Hi Vi and welcome back.
          Re flying of the Irish flag. Why is this only an issue in Scotland?
          In every single American city I’ve been to,the Irish flag flies in areas,
          sports grounds,clubs,schools and universities that have links to
          Ireland and the Irish founding fathers. No one is saluting it,or
          standing hand on heart pledging allegiance to it, as they do with
          the stars and stripes.No one has any issue with those of
          Irish descent having an affection for the land and flag of their
          forefathers either.
          No one at Celtic park is pledging allegiance to it either,despite
          what many think.It is there as a reminder of our ethnic origins,just
          as those in America are.
          Many of my Italo Scots friends have on prominent display the
          the Italian flag of their ancestors in their places of business,on
          their car bumpers and throughout their homes.This doesn’t seem
          to engender the same level of “comment.” Mmmmmm,wasn’t
          Italy once a sworn enemy of this country?.Weren’t many
          of its citizens who settled here prior to the war,with British born
          families,interned or deported as “enemy aliens,” many to die when
          the ship carrying them,The Arandora Star was torpedoed by a
          German u boat.
          I don’t recall any football song telling their descendants to go
          home,the war is over. Maybe they the Italo Scots are included
          with their co religionists in the wishes expressed for their departure
          from the and of their birth,who knows?
          Anyway Vi enjoy your holiday,hope to hear from you on your
          return.

          • JohnBhoy

            @Maggie

            It’s only an issue for racists and bigots.

            • Michael

              very simplistic, and ignorant comment JB.

              There is a dichotomy between the flag at Celtic and the flag at a US arena. It is all very well for a US team to be proud of their roots and fly the flag, but specifically in Glasgow, the flag is, in my opinion, used as a points scoring exercise against Rangers.

              They put us down because we are bogtrotters, so we will embrace the flag of our fathers and shove in in their face. Some fans take this a step further and to them the flag is an indication of support for the IRA, as opposed to Rangers fans support for NI unionists terrorists.

              The whole thing has become ridiculous, and is importing to Scotland what is an Irish problem.

              So, saying the flag is only an issue for racists and bigots is a perfect example of the problem of those who are too blind to see.

              Not that it matters, but I am 3rd generation ex-Ireland and 100% Scottish.

            • JohnBhoy

              This comment is directed at the simpleton who goes by the name Michael.

              Violet objects to the Irish flag being flown at Parkhead, though she cowardly pretends that she is speaking for others who find the flag offensive. Why would anyone find the Irish flag offensive? To view a flag as offensive is to view the nation behind the flag offensive. Her comments display naked racism. You have made a poor and illiterate attempt to defend her, on two occasions, and on each occasion you have failed miserably. There are many flags flown at Celtic Park and the Irish flag is not there as a petty point-scoring exercise against another football club – are you really that imbecilic to openly express that opinion? You may be 100% Scottish but you are also 100% wrong.

            • Michael

              @ JohnBoy

              My, but aren’t we an angry little boy! 🙂

              Good night John Boy

          • david

            What Irish founding fathers?
            Do you mean those of Ulster-Scots , or to use the American term Scots-Irish?
            The Irish flag is NOT in the least offensive .

        • Sycamore7

          Fair enough. I am a proud Scot. For instance I was disappointed that Scotsmen A McGeady and J McCarthy chose to play for Ireland over their country of birth. However to say that an Irish flag is intrinsically offensive to some merely demonstrates a level of underlying bigotry leading to outright racism. This is illustrated by Rangers’ overt racist signing policy which attracted little negative attention for decades.

          I do not live in Scotland. I live in an area of England with a large minority Asian population. I imagine that if I were to be overtly offended by the Pakistan flag I would be branded, at the least, bigoted.

          Only in Scotland it seems to me is there an air of acceptable of this bigotry and your comment to me highlights the casual racism accepted as normal in large parts of Scotland.

          Celtic has a large traditional Irish heritage. They fly Irish flags. So what?

      • Felpan

        If any one should fine the the Irish flag is offensive then they have either an issue with Ireland. Or they don’t have a clue of what they are talking about. Have a quick check on what the three colours stand for on the Irish flag and come back and tell us all the bit you find offensive!

      • willy wonka

        What “racist signing regime” ?

        • last count of 1st team squad at CFC 17 separate nations with ALL faiths represented

        • Sycamore7

          Well I suppose Willy you are correct with regards to “racist” signing regime. i.e. a protestant and a catholic would usually be described as the same race presuming we’re both talking about white British. However my point re Rangers signing regime still stands. For instance it has been well documented that if there were a young protestant and catholic footballer of equal ability and potential Celtic would sign the protestant because Rangers would not sign the catholic

          • willy wonka

            It may have escaped your notice, but under Scots Law, Roman Catholic and Protestant are not covered by racial offences. Sectarian, yes. But not racial aggravations. For the simple reason they are religions and not races.
            “Well documented” ? By who ? Comedians like Lex McLean, who did as much for Rangers as Harry Lauder did for Scottish generosity ?
            Despite what folk like ten names feed you guys, Mo Johnston wasn’t the first or even the 20th RC that Rangers signed.
            It was widely ‘documented’ that Celtics most successful manager was denied a place on the clubs board due to his religion. They didn’t want the glass ceiling broken and palmed him off with a job in the Pools.
            If you want to document things it’s handy to have the document in front of you before making comment rather than relying on heresay and washroom gossip. .

        • Steven brennan

          Never signed or trialled someone from Ireland!
          And dont say norn iron counts because we both know is doesnt.

    • @vc

      When you first started posting your comments here they were “unbiased” and apparently founded on the basis that you were in fact a HMFC fan or supporter seemingly a professional commentator and worthy of reading your contributions.

      This comment was almost always reiterated when you posted. Over the last few months your “angle” of obvious support has shifted considerably towards the TRFC point of view or alternatively the veil has dropped, either way it does nt matter a single bean, you are what you say you are and others are entited to believe otherwise.

      You have mantained that “this blog is now about football and Celtic can do no wrong and Rangers can do no right, I am sorry but you are yet again incorrect. The site is clearly run on the issues surroundng various topics and slants towards the legal aspect or effect surrounding the topics. Maybe you don’t follow the every posting by Paul or occasionally guests but they are very centred. The blog follows its predetermined and stated objective of measuring against the LEGAL aspects related to various situations, the cause and the effect and fallout. It is NOT a football blog and more importantly to the best of my memory it has never had a head line topic concerning CFC. This is what sets it apart from others and maintains the diverse numbers of followers (footbal and non football, bears and non bears), who regularly comment to this effect.

      The site is not biased, the rolling “story” surrounds oldco/newco/sevco/TRFC et al. There is great interest associated with this not just because it affected Scottish football but because it is almost without doubt one of the largest company failures in Scottish business history and the individuals involved are apparently senior Scottish business figures. This coupled with the fact that the MSM totally failed in any context, and sorry to say IMO it that includes Mark Daly, to accurately report or investigate the story and fallout, means that the individuals posting on this site have contributed to the professional understanding surrounding the matters. By the professionals correcting and qualifying supposition and conjecture the real truth has outed, this site has been responsible for much of that truth. there is no bias, simply people interested in seeking the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts. recently I read on here a comment by a regular poster that was word for word lifted and reported on the BBC sports webpage 2 days later. (further evidence that the BBC are bears haters)

      Your own recent whataboutery is again repeated in your latest post, What about Mr Lennon? What has that got to do with anything that has ever been posted here other than by yourself or other more abusive trolling bluenoses?

      Just because the topic happens to be oldco/newco/sevco, et al, why do CFC or its management have to be dragged into conversations or posts? It is childish and pure deflection, something you readily accuse others of.

      If you obviously so strongly feel aggrieved that Neil lennon defended his side against, in 99% of football punditries opinion, blatant fouling and his club officially responded as is their right, then write a guest post and submit it to Paul. I am sure it will create some traffic, however I believe it would fall into your “footballing” category unless you base it around the right to challenge aspect of the “grievance” you obviously have.

      From your past postings you obviously have some smarts as far as share trading is concerned and you correctly pointed out that it was a good buy at 70p, pat yourself on the back so far you have been correct, lets see where the price is after a years trading. Paul never maintained that the IPO would fail infact he supported, ( I stand to be corrected) the line that CG was a brilliant businessman and if anyone could pull it off it was him. If fact without trawling back through the posts he would 100% come into the category of supporting successful IPO and the concern was over the relative “actual cash funding” and operating costs going forward assuming the repayment of the initial capital required to get the club up and running.

      “When one makes points based on reasonable analysis” nice turn of narrative that is bound to endear you to the masses of readers. Perhaps if you read back over your own words they would make reasonable sense in the counter to you. I stopped reading many of the posters on here because the drivel that is spouted and that is often from “both sides”. If what you are writing is whataboutery or as you have done on this occasion introducing off topic content then yes its easier and more appropriate to discredit the writer.

      You yourself have judged Paul by claiming that the site is biased, your solid defense of the rangers is commendable, in part, but not surprising, and I disagree that many of the rangers community are unfortunately as you describe them.You only have to take a look at “the darkside” to confirm this and listen to the songs sung both at Ibrox and Tynecastle. While I accept that not all fans are of this persuasion there is a significant and growing minority. Personally I don’t.

      Your final comment, “Celtic still fly the flag of a foreign country, knowing that it is offensive to a large number of Scots” again has nothing whatsoever to do with any content recently discussed and blatantly shows your own prejudices and racist bias. I hope you are not in Edinburgh today and tomorrow as there are many irish flags and scarves around I would guess as the Irish are in town……………….for the rugby. Sad reflection on you and your second name is well deserved.

      • cam

        Paul has one added distinction that the other sites don’t possess. A medal of honour if you like.
        A trained lawyer who should really know better, made comments that RFC’s lawyers felt harmful to IPO and after a civilized chat they were pulled.
        Now some folk may think i’m a head in the sand,thick,blue nose who needs help from the lovely benevolent CFC’s fans.
        Indeed one creature has me down as a bigot.I guarantee one thing,,,this thick blue nose won’t be getting asked to speak to any lawyers regards offensive material,,,,that says it all.

      • Maggie

        @michael1888
        Excellent.

    • COYBIG

      @Violet Carson

      “But the recent ludicrous antics of Mr. Lennon pass without comment.”

      I assume that you’re referring to Neil saying that Celtic should of had at least 2 penalties against Juventus. Well everyone, excluding the obvious exceptions, would agree with him on that. So is everyone, excluding the obvious exceptions, guilty of strange behaviour? No. Are you shit at shit stirring? Yes.

      “This site was certain that the Big Tax Case would be lost and that the IPO would fail. When neither came to pass no one, me excepted, had the grace to say they got it wrong.”

      HMRC have appealed, therefore the Big Tax Case is still ongoing.

      As far as the IPO goes, the fans only bought half the amount of shares offered to them. Hardly what you’d call a success, is it?

      Aha! But what about the £17m raised by Institutional Investors? Well until there’s proof, other than a habitual liar’s word for it, that all of the £17m is in hard cash and none of it’s debt to equity, then the later is exactly what it is. But Charlie wouldn’t do a thing like that! Err…£20m of Negative Goodwill anyone?

      “When one makes points based on reasonable analysis, one´s credentials are impugned.”

      Does one like to think of oneself as Royalty?

      “concluding that I was no more a Hearts supporter than he was.”

      If my club was in the position Hearts are in at the moment, the last thing i’d be doing is writing a load of shite on a website which i’ve repeatedly said I don’t like. But that’s just me.

      “that I must be a ´Ger in disguise.”

      Maybe that person’s right. Maybe you just don’t have enough money for the bus fare. Who knows? Who cares? Not me.

      “If you cannot discredit the written, discredit the writer.”

      And if you cannot stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

      “You, Paul, are judged sometimes, not by what you say, but by the vicious hate which others post on this site.”

      That’s logical, ain’t it? Judging someone based on someone else’s actions. That’s a brilliant way of thinking.

      “but Celtic still fly the flag of a foreign country, knowing that it is offensive to a large number of Scots.”

      The Irish tricolour. A flag that symbolises the Catholics (green) and Protestants (orange) of Ireland, with peace and harmony (white) between them. In what way is that offensive to a large number of Scots? No really, please do tell.

        • Ernie

          I disagree with VC that the aforementioned flag is offensive, the whole “Irish” thing in a fitba team in Scotland is the same as the whole “loyal” pish on the other side; hilarious. Get a life the pair o’ ye.

      • Felpan

        I was stunned by this comment too! It sums up the poster of what they really are. It begins with R and ends with a T. Don’t think it is the flag of peace they are offended about but the Country that flies it.

    • Violet, hi, I think that Paul has every right to highlight some of the points levelled against him. I am glad that you offer no support to these baseless allegations. I am unconvinced this site of Paul’s is biased. But agree that some of the posters may be. This is only human nature, and in an opinion/info related post page, too be expected. However, a freedom of speech is afforded to fans on matters discussed, regardless of their preferred team. I would say that most visitors to this site, enjoy the parry and thrust of the swordplay which sometimes pops up between posters, and this is merely a wee game played in the lulls in action.between the more fact based, knowledgeable contributors. Personally, I pop in, mainly because I usually learn something with each visit. I would like to see more Sevconian posts, either of the witty, or informed type. I think Paul would agree that a wee bit of banter/controversy adds to the readers experience. The fact that there are not more posts from Sevconians is not the fault of Paul, nor the reception they receive.. Like Chris Graham, it is the unwillingness of Sevconians to “appear”.
      As for the BTC, at the moment, it is neither a success, nor a failure yet, as the outcome is undecided on the few charges Rangers chose to appeal. This is only a fraction of the admitted charges
      The IPO, again is a hard one to judge, with only speculation being made available. Would success be the CL tune at Ibrokes, or getting through the season, or would CG consider anything a success which made him very rich? A subjective subject and worthy of debate. Until the facts and ambitions are known, this site allows for speculation and informed discussion.
      There are posters to this site of a Sevconian persuasion, who know they will be shouted down, but enjoy the nature it is done in. Some of them post in expectation. They have the freedom to speak freely, but also, they can post opinions which would see them abused, intimidated and threatened, on sites of their own persuasion. They too would be classed as “Haters”.
      The flag thing….that is just being petty. It is not flown just to annoy Sevconians(unlike Chiccos offers to Wales/Juve, which both failed in purpose and delivery). A great many people of this country are offended more by the union flag than the tricolour of Ireland. I will treat that issue as seriously as “curren gate” with Mick & Adam incident.
      Incidently, and of a personal nature which you can blank. But your 13% return on the Sevco shares. As you pointed out, ecojohn has been posting their progress, which has been consistantly falling. Given this, as opposed to CG’s prediction the club will be worth $500m in a few years. Do you think it wise to cash in the 13% now, or play the long game? From an investor’s point of view, as opposed to a framed share cert bedroom wall point of view

      • ecojon

        @barcabuster

        I have to confess that when I remember I try to post the Rangers closing share price. I do that because a sevconian used to do that on this site as it was climbing. When it went south he ceased but I thought it only fair that I carried on this valuable service he had begun 🙂

        As to the 13% premium I think it well worth remembering there are fees to be deducted when shares are traded.

        As to VC’s hysterical an totally erroneous comments about my comments on share prices she ought to provide the evidence although it’s difficult to see how she could afford to lose any more credibility.

        • JohnBhoy

          @ecojon

          She has no credibility. Only the disgusting Cam will defend her. That says it all.

        • TBH, the share postings are handy because they save me looking them up! VC seems to be annoyed by them, (maybe regretting not selling a few weeks back and doesn’t want reminding,) . I wonder what the price will be after the holiday…..cancel that pinacolada!

    • Al1888

      VC hypathetically, if Scotland gained independance in 2014, would flying the Union Jack above ibrox not be deemed in the same context as your “foreign flag” comment.

  7. Cregganduff

    Never before have I come across a group who are so determined to declare and publicize, how much everyone hates them. How can we convince them that the majority of us have their best interests at heart?

  8. db125

    Mr Fraser – apart from Paul McConville’s fantastic posts, this post is one of the most sensible I have read on this whole Rangers debacle. Individuals who are in debt have to pay off their debts – so what happens to Rangers? Apparently nothing – yet are able to start again, debt free and it appears ‘they’ (Rangers owners, share holders, fans, directors) think to hang with everyone they are owe money to. For those Rangers fans who think I am a Rangers hater, well you are wrong. I don’t even like football, certainly am not into religious bigotry – and feel that more tolerance, humility and understanding is required. However, reading most of the bile generated in response to measured views and articles, I don’t hold out much hope.

  9. Pensionerbhoy

    “NB – For the avoidance of doubt,I am NOT suggesting that Rangers fans indulge in “witch dunking” or other acts of violence against those they perceive as “enemies” or “haters”.

    Paul,

    OH YES YOU ARE! (from the floor of the auditorium).
    The Star of the Show: “Sir, by your own denial you stand condemned!”

    I thought it was not a bad effort given there seems to be an extended pantomime season – at least in some parts of Glasgow.

  10. HoudiniBhoy

    I find it risible that Rangers fans sing “No one likes us, we don’t care” then have people like Legg-it and his ilk come on the internet and whinge on about how everybody hates them… which way is it? Some Rangers fans should realise that for many fans of other clubs it’s not about hatred. It’s about all those years when Rangers fans rubbed salt in the wounds and when it turns out that things were even more uneven that first thought. These whining, self-absorbed fans who would not accept that their club was in peril scoffed at guys like the RTC Blog, Paul McConville and Alex Thompson citing hatred and/or jealousy for their spiteful lies. Funny how most of it turned out to be true, to cries of bigots and haters. Just the kind of response you’d expect for those who have had it their own way for as long as they can remember. You’re atypical spoiled brat syndrome combined with their lack of understanding that they and their club’s ethos is filled with bigotry and hatred… that which they accuse others of so easily. Don’t believe me, then consider this? In the main, Rangers fans sing about what they hate, Celtic fans sing about what they love. Typical Rangers fans response? Child abuse in the 60’s!! Says it all, it is their suicide bomber vest for a reply when they know they’ve lost the argument, “Aye but, aye but…”. You will never rid yourself of these people and Green and Traynor have done EVERYTHING possible to fuel these true internet bampots. You know, the ones who would say that HMRC were closing in on Celtic regarding EBT’s and how Celtic were in financial trouble? Reading Rangers Media has been most entertaining over the last year or so. Mostly because of the fundamental fact that everything I have read on their about Celtic has been false, a complete opposite of those who have blogged about the former Rangers FC. Therein lies the difference, Celtic fans have been wary of those in charge of their club since the Kelly and Whyte era whereas the Bears have swallowed every piece of propaganda those in charge of their club have fed them, aided by a lamb-fed media. Call us haters all you like but no amount of finger pointing or witch drowning will detract from the fact that had you listened to what was being said long before Rangers went into administration your club would have been saved. Unfortunately, you were incapable of listening to those who you hate, ironic isn’t it?

  11. Felpan

    A day in the life of a Rangers fan! Must be really confusing. First off must go on twitter and Facebook (note to self, get better Juventus wallpaper)
    Now lets argue for an hour that my club Rangers is not a new club. No football club has ever been liquidated in the history of football. It was only ever the company. There for, every football club that has ever existed in the world will always exist for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever… 12 of clock. off to a Rangers fan site to talk about how good Rangers are doing in all the cups.. Almost a minute past 12.. nothing more to be said about that! So let’s see where to next? Ok let’s go to a good old Rangers blogging site see what good news they have about Rangers…. No good news about Rangers but at least I know now who to blame for everything bad…. Ok now off to a ‘Celtic’ fans blog to tell every one on it how they are all obsessed about Rangers…

  12. portpower

    It`s a pity sevco supporters don`t know how to whisper their bile, hateful and sectarian songs. Scotlands` shame while across the border again. There for the world to hear. What excuse this time. The english weather.

  13. Paul just forward my email address to all those people who keep insisting your a “rangers hater” because im very comfortable with people calling me a “rangers hater” because that is exactly what i am and in very good at it. Keep up the good work you “Celtic lover” you.hail hail, GOD BLESS THE CELTIC+

  14. portpower

    swally asked about the “inappropriate singing” His answer “hopefully this is a one off incident and it won’t happen again”
    I`m gobsmacked. There for the world to hear sevco.

  15. CCL

    The term “Rangers Hater” seems to be being orchestrated in the same way that anti-Americanism was used by McCarthy in the USA to describe liberal minded people with opposing political views to the establishment Basically in Scotland if you question the Rangers story as espoused by the sports journalists in the west of Scotland then you must have an agenda against Rangers. The actual reason that fans across Scotland have taken to the internet to give their views on this sorry affair is simply because they couldn’t stand idly by and accept the twisting of the truth with the acquiescence of these journalists. It’s the truth that football fans in Scotland are interested in and not propaganda and if that means being labelled a “Rangers Hater” then so be it although I do not hate Rangers and I don’t support or hate Celtic. However, the facts remain and the truth will eventually be told.

    • Pensionerbhoy

      @CCL

      Nail on the head, methinks.

    • willy wonka

      CCL, I know you posted it. But you don’t really believe that rubbish do you ?
      ” It’s the truth that football fans in Scotland are interested in and not propaganda……… ”
      Ffs, nobody mention ‘integrity’.
      Lol.

  16. AntoniousF

    looks like ESPN will be getting added to Mr Grahams list after they had the audacity to suggesy reporting their singing today at Berwick to the police.

    what are we going to do with this ‘small minority’ eh?

    • willy wonka

      Ah, Elliot – the man who “Rangers fans threw bananas at” ? Who scored in a game against Rangers which never happened ?
      Another one to file under ‘integrity’.
      Lol.

  17. Big Ed

    Violet Carson.
    Speaking as a Rangers man I can’t understand why my fellow supporters get excited about young fellas running about draped in a tricolour. They are honouring their cultural roots – and probably honouring beloved grandparents. Personally I feel pride that Scotland is a mature and diverse society where these young men can openly display their heritage without being harassed. Your comments reek of that disgraceful old fool Tebbit’s Cricket test. I wish you would reflect on your comments and think a little more de about what modern statehood and citizenship really mean. Thank you.

  18. Maggie

    @Paul
    Oh dear,have I started something again 🙂 I must have missed Mr Flap’s
    reply to my comment to Jim Bhoy. I was too busy mocking his
    screen name with Steven Brennan.Steven as you you know is
    very adept in this area and we enjoy the mocking greatly.
    This could very easily be construed as Rangers’ hating by those
    who make it their business to look for this hatred everywhere and note
    it for future “reference.” 🙂 It’s not,it’s fun at a rival’s expense.

    I tend to skim over the permanently enraged and puerile inanities
    of what the “bhoys” and I perceive to be trolls.
    I agreed with the wonderful post by Pensionerbhoy about the quality
    of these posts and the deterioration of the basic civilities therein.
    Having no wish to interact at that level Paul,I simply do not
    respond to them anymore.See my reply to PB on the guest post by
    JohnBhoy thread.

    While not wishing to belabour a point or play the victim of sexism
    card,I do feel a great deal of the permarage from the trolls towards me
    is partly due to the “bloody burds,what dae they know aboot fitba”
    mentality of the unreconstructed chauvanist.Please believe me when
    I say that this amuses me greatly and also,as you may have noticed
    I am more than capable of defending myself and calling them out on
    their attitudes,especially the smutty innuendo,which I despise.

    Apart from the trolls I have never encountered anything other than
    mannerly acceptance and cyber friendship from everyone else here.
    I do not participate here, because this is a football issue per se,though I love my club as much as any of the guys on here.I post because of the enormity of the Rangers implosion and because I want to see justice
    being done.
    I’m sure every Celtic fan felt that that justice might slip away as has
    been the case historically,hence our “interest” is perceived as hatred.
    I most certainly do not hate Rangers.What they stood for / stand for
    ( still to be adjudicated) I most certainly do despise as would any
    right thinking person.

    Now Paul I feel we must discuss the merits of T.S.Eliot’s Murder in
    the Cathedral over Jean Anouilh’s Becket re “who will rid me of this
    troublesome priest.”:-)

    Maggie fae The Crucible.First to be burnt as a witch in her previous
    life in Salem.

    • @Maggie

      “the permarage from the trolls towards me
      is partly due to the “bloody burds,what dae they know aboot fitba”
      mentality of the unreconstructed chauvanist”

      Absolutely true Maggie; such comments were in plentiful abundance re the good Dr Poon following the FTT Decision.

      Misogynistic in the extreme.

  19. Eddie

    Yet to explain why the tricolour is offensive?

  20. Eddie

    Ah so flag isn’t offensive in itself now you have to be singing also?

    You couldn’t make this up.

    This reminds me of a security guard that worked with me who was told to stop wearing short sleeved shirts as his tattoos of various flute bands were offensive to some customers. He grudgingly did so with the caveat that all staff wearing crucifixes must remove them as they were against his religion.

    Can’t argue with that logic.

  21. Thomas

    Paul, now that was fun, TB Henry Hater, denied ‘the truth’ thrice.The evidence if thats what the ‘animals say’ is simply that you have a ‘haters’ name, are affiliated wi ‘The Brigg’ and partake in tea n scones at St Pats (does a great lunch, I know many Sevconians who also agree).
    And you have this great blogg.
    Im getting a season ticket for the Rovers to make sure Get the Sevco game next season!

  22. Fisiani

    There was one team in Scotland that has NEVER employed a player from the pool of talent in the Republic of Ireland.
    There was one team in Scotland that NEVER employed a Catholic till UEFA asked for clarification of this policy.

    Anyone care to guess the name of this racist, bigoted organisation?

  23. Alexander Doherty

    Re v carson
    As I am from Ireland I love my flag and many of my friends be they taigh or prod or for that matter nothing are the same.
    Is the hatered for the flag or is it for the irish people

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