Henry Clarson and I Debate the Death of Pope John Paul I

I appreciate all (well, almost all) comments on the blog. One of its strengths is, I think, that we are able to have discussions about a variety of issues and generally, even where we come from different viewpoints, we can debate points with courtesy and respect for others’ views.

I think the discussion following my previous post about the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI is a credit to civilised conversation, and I am very proud that such a debate takes place here. I find it amusing how many readers were at Bellahouston in 1982. Who knew we would meet again across the ether 31 years later!

One of my favourite commenters, both for his writing and for the pleasure of his company in person, is Henry Clarson.

He posted a comment regarding my observations about the death of Pope John Paul I.

His comment is below, and it is followed with some of my thoughts on the specific issue he raises.

Readers will note (I’m talking to you Maggie) that we refer to a couple of books. I am happy for people to have a “book club” discussion too, and I will do a couple of posts about what I like (and don’t) which I am sure might provoke a bit of chat too.

Anyway, back to the plot …

—————————-

Henry wrote, starting with a quote from my piece:-

It prompted speculation about the nature of his death, by writers who linked it with the Vatican Bank/Banco Ambrosiano/Roberto Calvi scandal. Some books were produced explaining how and why the Pope had been supposedly murdered. With hindsight they fall into the category of the Da Vinci Code – books that rattled along, telling a good story, but one with no connection with reality.

With all due respect, that’s an extremely naive position, Paul. At best.

I don’t think there is much “supposedly” about it. There’s a very strong case to answer in the light of the documented facts of that period when Operation Gladio was in full swing, former prime minister Aldo Moro was shot dead, Licio Gelli was heading the P2 Lodge, the stinkingly corrupt Banco Ambrosiano was routinely laundering money from the proceeds of heroin trafficking prior to its scandalous collapse and any law enforcement officials or investigators who conducted investigations into these matters were regularly found dead.

It’s hard to know where to even begin but just off the top of my head, here are a few very real connections to reality.

P2 member and Banco Ambrosiano Chairman Roberto Calvi was murdered in London. Calvi had warned John Paul 2 that the impending collapse of the Banco Ambrosiano could cause the Catholic Church the gravest damage and had the potential to be a catastrophe of unimaginable proportions

P2 member, bent banker and all-round bad egg Michele Sindona was fatally poisoned in an Italian prison less than two years into his twenty-five year sentence. He had been found guilty of ordering the murder of the lawyer Giorgio Ambrosoli.

Giorgio Ambrosoli was shot dead almost immediately after he had furnished the US Justice Department with sufficient evidence to indict and convict Sindona of dozens of charges of fraud, money-laundering, perjury, misappropriation of bank funds and so on.

Ambrosoli also shared the results of his inquiries with the Palermo police superintendent Boris Giuliano who was also investigating heroin money-laundering at the Vatican bank. Giuliano was murdered ten days after Ambrosoli’s assassination.

And so it goes on. I could easily find dozens of similar examples of what happens to people who get on the wrong side of the Propaganda Due criminals who are deeply embedded in Italian politics, judiciary, secret intelligence services, financial institutions and the Catholic Church itself.

I haven’t even mentioned bad hats such as Giulio Andreotti, Archbishop Paul Marcinkus, Silvio Berlusconi, Cardinal John Cody, Cardinal Jean-Marie Villot, Cardinal Agostino Casaroli and a host of other Freemasons who were part of Licio Gelli’s P2 lodge.

Sadly, John Paul the First never stood a chance. As far as “connecting to reality” is concerned, Albino Luciani not only had the realism to recognise the ungodliness that riddled the Vatican but also had the immense moral courage and resolve to confront it directly or die in the attempt.

He died in the attempt.

Luciani had made up his mind to flush Freemasonry out of the Vatican and unfortunately for him he depended upon Freemasons in the Vatican’s own civil service to execute his instructions. There was as much chance of that being permitted to happen as there is of Campbell Ogilvie cleaning up Scottish football.

33 days, eh?

It is one of the greatest tragedies of the twentieth century that Luciani did not succeed in his desire to clean up the Church. In genuine good faith, he was prepared to pay whatever price was necessary in order to put the Church on a firm moral footing, That it probably cost him his life is in itself desperately sad but it’s not nearly as sad as the fact that his selfless sacrifice appears to have been totally in vain. Not only does the Catholic Church remain under the control of thoroughly unworthy men but the rank and file of the Church’s membership appear to be utterly heedless of the need to follow Luciani’s lead and that’s likely to remain the case. Catholics who did hear the alarm going off and raised their own concerns have been ignored or marginalised. Indeed, most of them probably baled out of the Church years ago.

When the stink of criminality from the Instituto per le Opere di Religione (aka the “Vatican Bank”) was belching out of St. Peter’s Square in the 1970s, the Church’s response (Luciani excepted) was essentially, “Nothing to see here, it’s all under control. No further questions, thank you, move along now…”
The same response continued through the 1980s and 1990s with the addition of an inference that a few bad apples had been found and rooted out, following the demise of crooks such as Calvi and Sindona.

Yet still the IOR stinks to the high heavens. Its last president, Ettore Gotti Tedeschi, is currently being investigated for money-laundering activities and was ousted from the bank last summer. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-05-24/vatican-bank-chief-ousted-after-money-laundering-scandal

I’m genuinely surprised, Paul, that when it comes to the scandals afflicting Scottish football in the wake of the appalling behaviour of Rangers Football Club, you are prepared to meticulously scrutinise every statement, parse every last letter and punctuation mark and rigorously analyse the possibilities and potentialities of anything which leaves the lips of Craig Whyte, Charles Green, David Murray, Campbell Ogilvie, Stewart Regan, Neil Doncaster, Ally McCoist, Bill McMurdo, John Brown and dozens of others.

You can see all kinds of ways in which their words and actions might conceivably be indicative of cunning wheezes, suspicious motives, deceitful practices, stings and scams. While you stop well short of accusing any of these parties of behaving in a criminal matter, you put enormous effort into explaining how an uncharitable soul might choose to interpret their deeds or their statements in an unkind light.

Yet somehow you have a blind spot about the death of Albino Luciani. As Pope John Paul 1, he became one of the few men in the world – in fact, almost certainly the only one – who had the principles, the courage, the office and the moral authority to challenge the combined powers of the Mafia, the Freemasons, crooked bankers, bent politicians, criminal clergymen, corrupt Vatican civil servants, duplicitous CIA agents and rogue law-enforcement agencies, all of which had everything to lose if Luciani managed to carry out his intentions. Dozens of his enemies were ultimately convicted of the gravest crimes, including murder. It’s glaringly obvious that many more literally got away with murder.

Prominent and influential figures, including a prime minister, were indisputably murdered in Italy with numbing regularity while countless others died in highly suspicious circumstances.

Yet, somehow, the possibility that Luciani was also murdered is something that you can entirely dismiss as having “no connection with reality”? Seriously?

Very, very strange.

It’s a wonder that he lasted for as long as thirty three days.

————————————————————————————–

Thanks Henry.

There are many inter-woven strands in the stories Henry was referring to. I should say that I have no doubt that many evil and criminal deeds took place surrounding the Vatican Bank (the ironically titled Institute for Religious Works).

Maybe there is naivety on my part in thinking it unthinkable that the theories, principally those expounded in David Yallop’s “In God’s Name”, do not stand up to scrutiny. I read the book in the mid-80’s, not long after it was published. Mr Yallop does not fall into the category of pot-boiler writers.

His books on the Craig/Bentley murder case, Carlos the Jackal, FIFA’s machinations and Roscoe “Fatty” Arbuckle are all excellent, diligently working to build a case forensically.

He did the same in “In God’s Name” and the case he made, as elegantly summarised by Henry, stands as one which seems internally credible.

However I have also read John Cornwell’s “A Thief in the Night”. Mr Cornwell, in my view, debunked the thesis proposed by Mr Yallop, and explained the various elements which made up the circumstantial case laid out in “In God’s Name”.

In that regard therefore I am firmly in the Cornwell camp.

But there is no doubt that the Vatican Bank/Banco Ambrosiano connection was a huge stain on the reputation (and a huge drain on the resources) of the Vatican. The notorious “letters of comfort” prepared with the involvement of Archbishop Paul Marcinkus, which basically assured investors that the Banco Ambrosiano was solvent, backed by Vatican money, at the same time as the Vatican had an agreement that it was not backing the Bank amounted to a fraud.

Roberto Calvi did not, despite the initial inquest verdict, hang himself under Blackfriars Bridge in London. He is on the list of people, some of whom Henry mentioned, who met their deaths at the hands of others in Italy in the 1970’s and into the 1980’s.

The Propaganda Due masonic lodge, led by the Grandmaster Licio Gelli, was the centre for crimes involving millions upon millions of pounds, and it is true that the malign influences of that lodge extended across the whole of the upper reaches of Italian politics and finance, and into the Vatican itself.

Gelli himself, who is still alive and now aged 93, was charged, although not indicted, in 2005 for his alleged role in Calvi’s death. He told the court that he was a scapegoat for the real culprits who had killed Calvi in connection with his illegal financial of Solidarity in Poland on the instructions of the Vatican. It was his position that Calvi was killed to prevent him revealing the use of the Vatican Bank for money-laundering. The charge against Gelli was however that he had engineered Calvi’s death as a punishment for having stolen money from Banco Ambrosiano which was actually owed to Gelli and to the Mafia.

Michele Sindona, another crooked banker, was poisoned in his prison cell with cyanide in his coffee in 1986. He was serving a 25 year sentence for ordering the murder of the liquidator of his banks.

Aldo Moro, former Italian Prime Minister, was murdered by the Red Brigades having been kidnapped by them and held captive for 55 days. Rumours persist to this day of the involvement of more than simply the terrorists in his death.

The state of politics in Italy was hugely influenced by these malign forces.

Ironically, bearing in mind Mr Gelli’s dealings and the force exerted by P2 upon the Italian State, it seems that Prime Minister Berlusconi is the embodiment of Gelli’s plans. Indeed, in one statement, Gelli said that Berlusconi was doing what he (Gelli) had planned 30 years ago, and that he should have claimed copyright on the ideas!

So, my comment about the theories regarding the death of John Paul I being unconnected to reality relate solely to the death itself. I do not, as a result of the wide range of books and articles I have read regarding the state of Italy then, suggest that all was rosy in the vineyard. Clearly it was not, and this, in a political sense was emphasised by the late Mr Moro being one of the longest serving Italian Prime Ministers, having been in that role for only six years.

So, do I agree with Henry that there were probably “rotten apples” in the Vatican at that time? Yes.

Do I agree that people, such as Archbishop Marcinkus, seemed to have been involved in, at best, chicanery and at worst downright fraud? Yes.

Do I accept that Pope John Paul I might well have determined that he needed to act swiftly to root out this evil? Yes.

Do I believe that Vatican officials, including Cardinals, plotted to kill, and then killed, the Pope? No.

I profess no infallibility. Henry might well be right and I might be wrong, but my comments were what I felt and feel.

We know that, as Pope John Paul II found out in 1981, being the Pontiff is not an automatic defence against assassination attempts.

However, it might simply be, even putting the competing evidence of Yallop and Cornwell aside, that I cannot countenance a Cardinal or senior Vatican figure murdering, in cold blood, the Pope.

Posted by Paul McConville

 

 

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122 Comments

Filed under Guest Posts, The Catholic Church

122 responses to “Henry Clarson and I Debate the Death of Pope John Paul I

  1. Paul,
    good that open and decent debate is still alive and well. I however fall in the camp of Mr. Henry Clarson. The corruption of society in Italy knows no bounds. That is my experience anyway. I could ramble on about my experiences but it could cause the demise of your blog through terminal boredom.
    Cheers

  2. ajl

    And that is why they can get away with it.

  3. florian albert

    The problem with debunking conspiracy theories is that it is likely to require your full time attention. Most of these fade away; the ‘murder’ of Diana, Obama not being born in the USA etc. After Cornwell published his book, the ‘murder’of JPI conspiracy theory lost almost all its followers. This does not mean that there are no conspiracies in Italian public life; there are and some of them involve Juventus and referees.

    • dan

      Florian, I am unfortunately old enough to remember the original Florian Albert–what a player. Re Juve and refs, I take it you are referring to the match fixing scandal, and not that pantomime last night. Celtic may have been on the end of some mysterious decisions—or non-decisions—-but it wasn’t the ref who determined the outcome. It was whoever was foolish enough to think a man can step off a twelve hour flight and a few hours later play in the last sixteen of the CL. Crazy.

  4. For me there seems a presumption that one large organisation’s king and princes will might behave differently to another’s, simply because of ‘godliness’ (whatever that is).
    Top Mafia Godfathers are as likely to be bumped aff by one of a few ‘next in lines’ as is the Pope by one of his Cardinals. There need only be enough opportunity, enough at stake and enough impetus.

  5. First of all, let me say that I unfortunately have absolutely nothing to add to your debate as such.

    I have absolutely no knowledge of any religion, something that may perhaps be to my detriment at times.

    However, what I would like to say is that I never once imagined that talk about religion (a subject of which I have no interest) could be both informative and an interesting read.

    We all know that Italy and corruption go together and most have always had a feeling that there are bad eggs in every office or organisation in Italy, including the Catholic Church. However, it is not a subject I have chose to look at in any detail. Something I am beginning to regret.

    I went to Rome, and subsequently the Vatican a couple of years ago. I went as a tourist, not on any holy pilgrimage etc. and visited St. Paul’s as it was obviously one of the top tourist attractions. When I was there I ate lunch in a small restaurant nearby in which I was sat next to a man claiming to be an American civil servant. He claimed to be working in some capacity with orphaned children – tho that has little to do with what we discussed. He told me that he was fascinated by the history and secrets of the Vatican and the history of the church and that is why he loved being there. He also urged me to research the church myself as it would open my eyes to “my faith”(not sure what he ment exactly). I declined to explain to him that I was not actually a Catholic as I did not really wish to have that discussion but I always promised to myself that maybe it would be a story worth reading!

    Fast forward a few years, and here it is…….

    Interesting stuff.

  6. coatbrigbhoy

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_murdered_popes

    But not in my life time ?

    Does a “meek” person get to be head of an organisation that exerts
    enormous influence over more than 1 billion people.

    Trust in god but travel in a bullet proof car.

  7. josephmcgrath112001809

    Crooked bankers! Thank heavens that’s all in the past and we don’t have anything like that in the UK.

  8. coatbrigbhoy

    Christ, Crucified at the age of 33.
    Popes are now retiring at 85 years of age due to failing health and old age.

    It made me think, if Christ had been one of today’s popes the Romans would never have got within a mile of him, enormous wealth, and a team of high paid LAWYERS and his bullet proof car would have protected him.

    Then again,it only takes one Judas within the organisation and you could end up on a slab.

  9. iain

    What does all this have to do with Rangers?

  10. Geddy Lee.

    I also fall into the camp which does not put anyone above suspicion , simply because of the position they hold.

    Corruption of all kinds is endemic in Italy, especially within the banking system. Factor in the violent nature of the Mafia
    and it’s propensity for murder, and you can see why so many feel the pope was murdered.

    Unquestioned power has always brought out the worst in people, especially where religion is a factor. History shows us what lengths some Popes went to to silence critics in the past. Just ask the Irish. I doubt that mindset has died out in the modern church. A place where change it’sself is a word to be avoided at all costs.

    Fascinating stuff, but sadly, I doubt we will ever uncover the true power behind the throne within the Papacy.

  11. Steven brennan

    Who said “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
    And dont say it was me because i wrote it.

  12. willy wonka

    Enjoying this article and the previous post by Henry [to which I made the point I’m about to repeat]……… Freemasonry had nothing to do with any of the events described.
    The P2 Freemasonic Lodge had been expelled from Italian Freemasonry in 1976 due to its, understandable in Italy, infiltration by rogue business and criminal elements . Gelli who was its MASTER, note, not GRANDMASTER,[ that position is reserved for the person in charge of a particular overseeing Grand Lodge ] was expelled from Freemasonry altogether at the same time. However, he continued to hold quasi-Freemasonic meetings and P2 ‘Lodge’ underwent a dramatic expansion in membership.
    I’ll repeat, whatever P2 were doing they were not holding Masonic meetings.

    • willy wonka

      Apologies. Above should read ” Gelli was expelled from Freemasonry altogether at the same time “.
      [No ‘edit’ function ?? ]

    • Willy,

      It was not my point that the wrongs arising from P2 were because the members were Freemasons. That was simply the vehicle by which they acted.

      And my mention of Licio Gelli as Grandmaster was not meant to be a specific one to his role, but rather indicating his control and position.

      Thanks for the extra info. It is always appreciated.

      Paul

      • willy wonka

        No problem Paul. I was only correcting for the benefit of those who tend to read conspiracy theories from ‘the usual suspects’. Because what happens is, the inaccuracy over time becomes an accepted ‘fact’.
        As a Freemason myself I take every opportunity to set the record straight. In some folks eyes we have enough to be ashamed of or to apologise for without having to accept responsibility or blame for something that had absolutely nothing to do with us.
        A brief search on the internet will find dozens of ‘insiders’ and ‘experts’ who like to blame the bogeyman for everything [Leo Zagami being prolific and oft held up as a voice of authority on the subject]. The following link I’d hope would dispell any credibility clowns like him have.
        http://www.masonicinfo.com/zagami.htm
        Cheers Paul.

  13. Joe

    Another brilliant article.
    I usually give conspiracy theories a miss because they lack closure. But a few things mentioned yesterday peaked my interest as I hadn’t heard of them before.
    Peter The Roman (Thanks for that one) Which led me to
    The true third secret of Fatima (not Whitbread) (and Pope BenedictXVI’s role in covering it up)
    Another stonker.
    And with all the other talk of murder money laundering and the mafia in the vatican. I’m not sure what to do first –

    1.) Build a bomb shelter.

    2.) Head for the highlands. (giving campletown a wide berth)

    3.) Go to mass for the first time in a long time. (although I think I’d feel like a hypocrite, as I’d just be there because I thought it was the apocalypse)

    4.) Take up as many fighting skills as possible. (Too much like hard work)

    5.) Take up jogging (see above)

    6.) Memorize as much Rangers and newco trivia as possible so come the day of the revolution when Cam and Carsonflage with a massive sqaud of cohorts are wandering the streets of Glasgow like extra’s from Escape from New York looking for Celtic supporters to beat unmerciful. I would at least be able to bullshit my way out of it. Although Cam may pull that gestapo trick from the great escape by waiting till I’m walking away then saying “What year did rangers die” I dont think I would be able to resist turning round smugly and answering that one to be honest.

    7.) Approach this the same way I did the Mayan Prophecy. (Did nothing)

    I’m probably worrying about nothing, thank god none of the new pope prospects are called Peter, then I’ll really start freaking out. Better pack a bag with extra pants just to be safe.

  14. mick

    a little of topic
    #c4news TOMOBLOG – revelations later concerning Craig Whyte and a senior current Rangers official
    That’s fair cheered me up

  15. mick

    those of you waiting on the scoop from CQNs bhoy

    O.G.Rafferty 10:19 on 13 February, 2013

    The story will be up around late afternoon/early evening, in time for your tea

    of topic in the run to the juevi game the bloggers were clattering about 3 big exclusives thom and cqn are doing theres today the suspence is killing me
    over the last couple of days has been very intresting on here and educational we all joke about the mafia rome and the bank but some of the things to pop out via our brothers and commenters has been amazing to read galye is predicting nuke strikes lol

  16. dan

    I love conspiracy theories——-well I am a Celtic fan after all. But they require close attention if you are not to be mislead. I well remember on first reading about the ‘magic bullet’ that passed through JFK , stopped in mid air, pirouetted, zig-zagged a bit, and then went on to do such terrible damage to governor Connally. That was it, for me. Either there was more than one gunman, or that bullet had trashed the laws of physics. There was no way any bullet could have followed such a trajectory. Then someone spoiled it all by pointing out that the seating arrangements in the presidential limousine obviated the need for such ballistic contortions. When looked at properly, —I think the governor’s seat which was forward of the presidents’, was also lower and a little off-centre— the single bullet becomes feasible. Damn it!

    But as I said in an earlier post, I don’t believe Oswald was a ‘lone nut’. I believe he was the only gunman, but that he was acting at the behest of Fidel, who knew the Kennedy’s were out to assassinate him, so got in first. This is what the Warren Commission covered up out of fear that it would lead to World War Three, if the American people knew the truth.

    So, you see what I’ve done here? I’ve swapped one conspiracy theory for another. And why? Because they’re so damned seductive. And therein lies their danger.

    • mick

      @dan martin luither king always springs to mind when jfk pops up the toilet window throw the bush from across the road in the hotel an escaped convict pleads then throw out his life says hes innocent edgar hoover seems tied to both

      • Joe

        If you like Mob books read “Gaspipe- confessions of a mafia boss” about Lucchese hitman and underboss Anthony Casso, when he turned snitch they couldn’t shut him up. Apparently the guy who is in jail isn’t the guy who shot Martin Luther King, it was a mob hitman who he names and also said he shot JFK at the CIA’s behest.

  17. Not half as last night cheered me up Michael , why do septic always want penalties ? Why is always someone else’s fault ? Why must the referee have a poor game only against septic ? Why are they always cheated but never defeated ? Looks like that third division training training complex played a part ! Was it a conspiracy involving sinister Masonic influences from Italy and Glasgow ? And dearest Margaret it’s only banter , I’m sure you’ve had a wee dig are Rangers in the past ? So chill out , have a wee pop back , remember , were only here for the banter !!! P.s. good to see fat Kris commons and big john standing by effe ! With friends like these eh ! Btw what about big sammis ( alleged ) dive to get past Moscow ? Or Lemmons ( alleged ) fall to get juanjo sent off when playing Inverness ? Integrity , cheating , you can make you own minds up , yours in banter .

    • mick

      carson its only half time 3 0 we need a miricle 4 nil win in turin ,it could be worse we could be in div 3 lol or dead like our former rivial;s rfc

  18. mick

    just a thought of mine to remember its a sin to chat negatively about your faith and people nonbelivers love the conspircy but if you join in and agree then its a sin if wrong and could leave you in Purgatory and condem you to hell all banks have scandals but because its mafia country and suspicious minds of murder it really is intresting

  19. Your right Michael it is only half time , a canae wait for the secund haulf ! Maybe big sammi could dive ( allegedly ) and get five spot kicks ? Then Lemmon could dive ( allegedly ) in the technical area and claim a juve ballboy done it and get the game abandoned , UEFA kick juve out and the bhoys go on to with the cup in England , now there’s your conspiracy ! Yours in the banter .

  20. Well, what was an interesting conversation with some good comments has- once again- gone off on a tangent about Rangers and Celtic! A subject that the original post had absolutely heehaw to do with!

    Really….. Is there any need? It’s the same old ground covered in every subject by the same people. Do you need to hijack every single post with the same points that you will never agree on.

    • mick

      garry theres lots of clatters on here as you know so the tweets and breaking news should be mentioned am sorry if me and carson are ruining your debate. for a week now we have been waiting on the articles so its quiet a intresting day for us all so there will be off topic comments today

      • I get that but is there absolutely nowhere else on the whole Internet you could have that discussion? Does it always need to be here and in particular, on a post that has nothing to do with football?

        • Adam

          He is having the discussion on many, many, different forums garry.

          • mick

            what do you mean adam ?

            • ecojon

              @mick

              And what’s wrong having the same discusion on different sites if you want to – does that not provide a greater selection of viewpoints to be considered.

              Perhaps Adam is only allowed to post here by his Boss 🙂

          • mick

            adam a only comment on here and at phils site and scotzine but other than that a dont post anywere else sometimes ifs its an article from a commentor on here else were via the celticnetwork or news now home of the internet bampots then a leave a comment so you tripping there adam
            and answering your question on division theres no faith division in scotland all the faith leaders are friends with diffrent views on faith you cant be faithful and have division its not faithful no matter what you are

            • Adam

              Bill said “a reformer would probably do much to heal the divisions between Catholics and Protestants” You said “only in your mind does this division exist”

              So to be clear, do you think Bill was right in saying there is a division between Catholics and “protestants” or not ?

        • mick

          garry as you are well aware the site is mostly scottish football related legal aspects ,although the post has nothing to do with soccer its conspiricys and thats what is on the agenda today green conspiring to con the bears a do understand and respect your views but you have to allow for off topic things related to site a did read your post above about you in rome so a understand you wanting to debate it at length

        • ecojon

          @garryjbmacinnes

          Sometimes on a Blogg which doesn’t have separated story threads it can be a bit difficult following the main thread and the answer is IMO just to ignore the posts I have no interest in and to ignore most of the posters I view as attempting to deflect or destroy the thread.

          If some of the internet chatter is within a million miles of what is claimed to be coming over the next couple of days I have no doubt that this post will be replaced ASAP by the apparent ‘revelations’ to come.

          Dry and dusty whodunnits are all very well and sometimes interesting like this one but a totally current Scottish whodunnit is a totally different matter.

          • mick

            goodevening ecojon its a big news day lol a wonder if its all related to the articles on here last year in a scale of 1 to 10 the feel online is 11 lol

    • dan

      Garry, I’ve had to ask the missus to hide every sharp object in the house for fear that I might self-harm. And why? Because—-I can barely bring myself to say this—I agree with Arseon. As I’ve said in a previous post, the ref didn’t do for Celtic last night. An incorrect managerial decision did.

  21. coatbrigbhoy

    Football*
    We need a miracle, will the new Pope be in place before the return leg, in the great scheme of things it’s not a lot to ask.

  22. mick

    Joe

    February 13, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    If you like Mob books read “Gaspipe- confessions of a mafia boss” about Lucchese hitman and underboss Anthony Casso, when he turned snitch they couldn’t shut him up. Apparently the guy who is in jail isn’t the guy who shot Martin Luther King, it was a mob hitman who he names and also said he shot JFK at the CIA’s behest.
    ————————————————————————————————-
    @joe a love a good conspiricy threoy but you have to look at what was happening then black power and RCs at the button multi culture up rising for equality a think it was white power devo had a hand in the deaths put at the highest level in the lands

  23. Geddy Lee.

    On a lighter note, the excellent TAL website has nominated Bishop Brennan, of Father Ted fame, as the next Pope. LOL
    They have published a hilarious case for his election, check it out.

  24. Maggie

    @Geddy Lee
    Guess Fr Ted won’t be allowed to “kick him up the a***” now
    that he’s a candidate for the Papacy 🙂
    Do you have a link to it Geddy ?

  25. mick

    http://talfanzine.info/blog/2013/02/11/tal-reveals-its-nomination-for-pope/

    hi maggie hope you enjoy the article theres lots of good reads in the site and info on social issues faceing unions and society

    • Cregganduff

      Great stuff Jono
      Do you think it’s becoming clearer who the journalist(s) were that tried to intimidate Alex Thompson and scare him away from the Rangers story? Whoever they were they certainly misjudged their man.

      • Jono @jonokeydokey

        I hope it was JT, and he’s seeing it come home to roost. Tomo just keep rolling along! Wonder what will be next!

      • Jono

        I hope it was JT, and he’s seeing it come home to roost. Tomo just keep rolling along! Wonder what will be next!

      • cam

        Is that the allegation that was investigated by Strathclyde Police and dropped?
        http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/node/49194
        Is this the same reliable journo who sat in Radio Clyde’s station with his scrap of paper with the name of a wind up twitter account on it and made a total ar*e of himself?
        Apologies to Paul’s topic on the Pope,but fantasies have to be countered whenever they surface.

        • Fair comment on fantasies cam, so given Tomo’s blog is so clear and specific, JT suing him will be an open and shut case huh?

        • Cregganduff

          Anything to say about today’s story Cam?

          • Adam

            Im not Cam but i have to say in the grand scheme of things, it really is as non interesting as it could have been given there was supposed to big news coming out on Saturday.

            Anyone who thinks im just sweeping would do well to remember that on the Asian debt issue, i was outspoken and im still not satisfied with the response from the club and especially not Green.

            An idiot journo who i have no time for trying to worm a job with the worm 18 months ago doesnt appear on any register. Its just a tit for tat war of words that Jabba started and will now pay the price for.

            • mick

              well said adam am not 1 for commenting on who said what but you stated jabba was no good also a noticed you were the only bear last night to wish celtic well

          • cam

            A total non story for me i’m afraid.If this is the most shattering of mick’s trilogy then his blockbusting days are over!

  26. mick

    lol its jabba lol pmsl he will be clattering with counter cliams

    • ecojon,

      assuming JT is not the source for Alex Thomsons’ blog. There can only be one other explanation. Wee Craigie has found an outlet for bean spilling.

      • ecojon

        I have no idea but I wouldn’t automatically assume it is Craigie.

        He doesn’t seem to have that much to gain from the story. But perhaps the Ibrox Mole might be a better bet. He or she has yet to be found despite an intensive hunt.

        But perhaps more will be revealed shortly.

  27. ecojon

    Today Mr Traynor, through channels at Ibrox, issued this statement to Channel 4 News: “These suggestions are malicious and misleading. Anyone who knows anything about events at Rangers knows that James Traynor, in his capacity as a journalist, was instrumental in exposing the activities of the Craig Whyte regime which are currently subject to criminal investigation.”

    I assume Mr Traynor or Indeed Rangers or even the RFFF will be instituting legal action in view of the strong denial of the Channel 4 Blog.

    Chuckles in Oz has been describing how his attack dog will be dealing with Rangers’ enemies and we will soon see if the threat has any teeth and who is buying Immodium.

    • mick

      @ecojon a was reading that earlier its well a lol day

      Jim Traynor and Media

      We have brought Jim Traynor on board. He is not a Rangers fan but he knows Scottish football inside out. I asked him to leave the BBC / Daily Record as we need to be able to control the media and Jim is a great asset. Serious action is needed with regard to the media. The Old Firm have always had a huge influence over the media but with Rangers not speaking out for the last 5-6 years had given Celtic too much power. Dominance was now held by just one club and that was not healthy. The reaction of other journalists to us winning the tax case was unbelievable with one editor with his head in his hands and the other claiming it was ‘a fucking conspiracy by the government’. Jim had lost faith in the media. Jim has something on everyone in Scottish football and now he is working for us you can guarantee there are quite a few people on Immodium now!

      We plan to transform our use of media – starting with a Rangers App for iPhones. Jim Traynor will be out here in Oz next week. We will be holding an interactive phone in where you can speak face to face online and will get the chance to ask questions to myself and Ally directly. We are building a TV broadcast unit in Argyle House so we can control our own productions – there will be no political correctness or boundaries and it will be a fully open forum to discuss. We will also film the aboard meeting – a first in UK PLC history. Fans have a right to know what is going on.

  28. mick

    hi criag its jim lol

    He breaks the NUJ Code of Conduct. Get him out.

    http://www.nuj.org.uk/files/NUJ_Code_of_Conduct.pdf

    • ecojon

      @mick

      I love the chucky quote: ‘we need to be able to control the media’.

      That sort of expression is usually the preserve of dictatorships. I thought a Communications Director would want to inform and spread the good news about his club and certainly answer any damaging stories. But CONTROL the media?

      Chuckles is well down the World domination route it seems and I wonder if Jabba knows what he signed up to as Head of Meeja.

    • cam

      So by those rules Mr MacG and rule no.9 seems to be at odds
      http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-incubator/

  29. Another nothing article , just like the orlit court of session mince ! Oh yes what happened to that ? Mick , is that what I’ve been waiting for ? Who cares ? Journalist ran story by someone , journalist was looking for job ALLEGEDLY , who gives a f@##! I was looking for something good , people have been wetting themselves with excitement , foaming at the mouth with anticipation , channel 4 must be struggling to pay for this p#@$h , I’m away to watch some paint dry.

  30. mick

    O G Rafferty seemed to be hinting at a double whammy of a story today then a follow-up tomorrow. And Scotzine on Twitter was alleging story about to break re C.Green – linked?jabba must be regreting taking the bloggers on they were ignoring him till he attacked them last week now the whole nets after him lol

    • ecojon

      @mick

      In view of ome of the distasteful comments coming from Chuckles in Oz about what Jabba will be doing with the MSM who are all allegedly hiding in the toilet suckin Immodium then perhaps it might not just be the clatterers looking to tear chunks of raw meat from the dripping roast.

    • Cregganduff

      Mick
      The Rangers minded must be finding all this very frustrating. Their traditional ‘modus operandi’ has been to confront, intimidate and smash, but the ‘slings and arrows’ of the blog/internet world are torturing them and driving them mad. They have now been put in the unaccustomed position of having to use what brains they have, to respond in kind. And what have we got so far? Carson and Co. and Jim Traynor. Enough sad(sic).

    • cam

      Its getting near the deadline mick,what do you think OG has in store?
      Pictures of Chico in Anne Summers?

  31. mick

    if that was soup whats the main course and dessert ????

  32. ecojon

    Looks to me, going by the Channel 4 blog, that it doesn’t matter who was the Boss or owner at Ibrox but that Mr Traynor was very keen to land a plum job there.

    I am quite surprised in some ways because I always thought that Jabba and Minty had a special relationship. I wonder if any of the MSM will question Jabba as to whether any articles were pre-agreed with Murray and, if so, which ones?

    The blog also raises the question as to whether Mr Traynor’s employer was aware an condoned the practice alleged in the Channel 4 blog.

    And of course has wee Criagie also got some recordings from the alleged meeting with Traynor or even phone calls. I know if I was Craigie and thinking of giving him a job then I would want to know that he was going to be my man so I would question him closely on what he thought of Murray.

  33. Maggie

    @Paul
    I haven’t read the books by David Yallop or John Cornwell,but
    did read something similar many years ago,though can’t for the
    life of me remember the title or author,and most unlike me,I didn’t
    keep hold of it.

    It pretty much covered the same ground that you and Henry were
    discussing,but I vaguely remember that the author concluded that
    Pope John Paul I wasn’t murdered,but all the rest of the chicanery
    was explored and exposed.A very unedifying period in the Church,
    followed by the even worse scandal of widespread child abuse.
    It’s nothing short of miraculous that so many still hold fast to
    their faith.

    Like you Paul,It was great to hear all the memories of Bellahouston
    1982.
    I was newly married, 2 months prior, and attended with my husband,
    my widowed mother and my parents in law.
    I will never forget what that meant to my mother and parents in law to
    see a Pope in Scotland and to be present at such a monumental
    occasion.It was a culmination of a life time of faith for them and
    many others.Oh and btw I was a child bride. 🙂

    Very much looking forward to the “Book Club Blog” Paul,as everyone
    seems to have much to contribute,well maybe not Carson,though
    he could surprise us,stranger things have happened.

    • Can’t Wait the book club blog ! You really know how to tear it up! Can you sense my excitement ? Oh well back to watching the pain’t dry after Micks sensational revelations , can’t wait for the next one Mick .

    • I have fond memories of Pope John Paul II Mass at Bellahouston Park . It was special event, filled with the Holy Spirit and love. I remember walking back home with my girlfriend, and as we walked up the hill at Mosspark railway station, down the hill came this young guy walking towards us and as he passed by he uttered ‘f*** yer Pope!’. It was a gut wrenching experience to feel all the love that was encapsulating us as walked almost on air, bring us back down to earth with a hard thump!

      I have no time for bigots, I have no time for those of green and white brigade who sang sectarian songs and masqueraded as good Catholics! They could not and should not claim to be followers of Christ. Thankfully, it seems to be eradicated ( in Celtic Park at least).

      I really do not know how to express my feelings towards those of blue and white brigade who sing their songs of hatred anytime, anywhere, any place. I could never understand why normally decent Rangers supporters were quite content to let their ears and that of their children be bombarded with that hatred. What are they thinking about?

      In general, I have been impressed by the level of debate that has followed Paul’s blog on the resignation / retirement of Pope Benedict XVI. As human beings we all have our failings but form me, my faith and understanding of the love of Jesus Christ has pulled me through many a dark time.

      Scotland is growing up, religious tension appears to be not as bad as it was when I was growing up in Glasgow (60’s, 70’s), but I have concerns that all the events of the past year have ignited something evil under the cloak of the new regime at The Rangers. Time will tell.

  34. mick

    @maggie and paul a will be joining in the debate and promoting Lewis Grassic Gibbon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_Song is ma fav.

  35. ecojon

    Rangers International

    79.00p
    -3.00 (-3.66%)
    Feb 13 – Close

  36. cam

    Michael Connelly’s,Hieronymus “Harry” Bosch is a brilliant creation and for some reason i have an image of him as a young Chazz Palminteri.
    John Connelly is worth a look.
    Koko by Peter Straub left a lasting impression.
    Gorky Park was a classic and summed up perfectly 80’s Moscow and the film wasn’t bad either.
    Clive Barker,Dean Koontz,Mr King, Arthur C Clarke ,Philip K Dick and Stuart MacBride can make a journey more bearable.
    Books only,,,burn Kindles,,,work of Satan.
    I’m gonna read Leggo’s books when i have overcome the safety cut out on the washing machine door.1400 R.P.M should do the trick.

    • Cregganduff

      Michael Connelly – read everything says it all
      John Connolly – 3 or 4 – but still ambivalent odd fantasty reality mixture
      Clive Barker – 5 or 6 – read Weaveworld if nothing else brilliant fantasy.
      Dean Koontz – at least 6 – quality writer, but never seems to have more than a 100 page story which he stretches to 350 or 400
      Martin Cruz Smith, Gorky Park etc – nearly everything top drawer
      Stephen King must have read at least a dozen and still wonder whether I rate him. The Dark Tower Series probably his best work.

      Just one recommendation for SF fans Hyperion by Dan Simmons arguably one of the greatest ever of its genre.

    • Joe

      I have read Koko and agree it was a good book.

  37. Is there any news on tommos complaint to ra polis about threats made to him about showing his face in Scotland ? Seems to have went all quiet .

    • willy wonka

      The polis told him [twice] that his complaints were without foundation.
      Thomson then called the police corrupt.
      His strings will get cut soon and he’ll fade into the background again like Queersie.

  38. Bob Marley

    Bwai man , doncha all know dat da pope is the Anti-Christ and Haile Sellassie I is Jah , Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah ? One love people !

  39. In the history of the Papacy there are many tales of assassination and I believe that your referring to an institution that has very many ambitious men and a mind set that unless you are in the thick of it, it would be difficult to understand the politics of. I have spoken to two old school friends of mine who studied for the priesthood and were for a time in the Vatican itself, not at the same time may I add, and both left the priesthood whilst in Rome and returned to Scotland, both cited ‘politics’ and that was all I could get out of them. Although from what little I could glean from them The Vatican even at the lowest of levels is a not the kind, calm place most Catholics imagine it to be. I feel that there is every chance poor John Paul I met with an untimely end. BTw I’ve read both books you talk about and I think ‘ in the Name of God’ edges it.

  40. Tecumseh

    Paul and Henry .. You forgot the most influential Vatican mason of them all.

    Step forward Archbishop Annibale Bugnini . .head honcho of the “committee” that gave us the Protestant . .Novus Ordo missal . .I’m not trying to be snide in the use of the word Protestant, there were six protestant advisors, one was named Max Thurian a Swiss national if memory serves. These guys were telling the church what the catholics should do to make mass more attractive to protestants .. .!!! . .so they gave us the type of mass celebrated at Bellahouston .. .the church in Scotland had the skids well and truly under it by the early 70’s . .catholics were flying out of the churches never to return . . .meanwhile the ones who remained were treated to the inanities of the John Paul II era . .and so it continues to this day,

    I bet the “catholic” hierarchy had a very good Mardi Gras yesterday . .it would have been Christmas come early instead of the beggining of lent . .now that the German nuisance is “retired” . ..no more qualms of consciense about denying the faithful a truly Catholic mass . .that’s all gone . .they can go on serving up the type of mass you’re used to,Paul . ..the kind Pope Benedict called a “BLAND. CONFECTION”

    Any way back to our hero Annibale, he was at a Vatican meeting, left his brief case lying around, a Jesuit priest found it, opened it to see who it belonged to so as to return it . . .but found cast iron evidence that the man who promulgated the Novus Or do mass was a Freemason.

    Pope Paul VI sacked him on the spot. He was moved sideways as Papal Nuncio . . .to Iran . .!!! This was two years before Ayatollah Khomeini returned from excile . .lucky white heather for Iran . . .you wait for a religious nut case to come and visit havoc on your near 100% Muslim population but the Devil sends you a Tim instead . . .Waaaaahahahaha . .I”d cry if it wasn’t so tragic

    Never mind, anybody care to remind us of how Iran got on.. ???

    Anybody care to tell us how the Catholic church in Europe is going to survive if something radical . . .like people believing like catholics . .living like catholics …returning to real catholic sacraments . .doesn’t happen soon …???

    The Novus Ordo has to go we need real catholic priests . . .not namby pamby mummies boys . . .

    There are real catholic priests out there . ..you can tell by the way they say the REAL. TRADITIONAL. LATIN. MASS.

    NOTHING. ELSE. WILL DO.

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