Some Comment on “Rangers Compensation Claim Boost”

Last week, Rangers needed some good news after the shock caused by the change in football reconstruction plans. Luckily they got some!

As the official website reported:

RANGERS have made a successful start to their bid to win compensation for the players who walked out on the club last summer.

The club is chasing Allan McGregor, Kyle Lafferty, Jamie Ness, Stevie Naismith, Steven Whittaker and Sone Aluko for breaching their contracts. Compensation is also being sought from their clubs – Besiktas, Sion, Stoke City, Everton, Norwich City and Hull City.

A meeting took place on Monday at Hampden to discuss jurisdiction on the case and Rangers prevailed.

Chief Executive Charles Green told RangersTV: “From our side it went as well as we could have expected. From the other side I’m sure they will be disappointed. Clearly they wanted they commission to throw it out and rule that the SFA had no jurisdiction because the whole process of the first meeting was about jurisdiction.

“What we stated at the meeting was that newco wants to continue where oldco was. We have this slight anomaly where for a period newco were not members of the SFA from June 14 until being granted membership on August 3.

“It was those technical issues which caused some consternation but I was very encouraged with the meeting. It is still my position that these players breached their contracts and we are going to pursue them. With newco taking over from oldco – and BDO were at the meeting and withdrew from the process – is a fundamental part of it.

“Both parties were asked to go away and discuss various issues. We have been given until January 21 by the chair of the commission to come back to him. In the absence that the parties can’t agree or cannot come up with a view, he will make a judgement.

“Hopefully, though the lawyers, we can come up with an agreement on these issues and at that point then the commission can start taking the thing forward. We are quite a way off from the position we want to achieve in terms of gaining compensation.

“What these players and their clubs need to realise is that when we go to the next level this is going to be a number of days – not just an afternoon at Hampden. These players won’t be training or playing, they will sit in Hampden waiting to give evidence or to make statements.

“We are not going to let this drop as I have said since June.”

Some might find it odd that, on one hand, newco Rangers can successfully seek the protection of the SFA in relation to players whose position is that they were never employed by them, whilst at the same time newco Rangers can say that the SPL has no jurisdiction over it in connection with allegations of rule breaking which form the grounds of the Independent Commission under Lord Nimmo Smith.

Let’s look at this apparent discrepancy.

The football authorities provide a system for resolving disputes amongst their members, including disputes about player registrations. This is one area where an “appeal” lies to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

I will use the terms newco, oldco and club in this note to refer to the three parties.

The argument regarding the players is simple (although resolution might not be).

Mr Green argues as follows:

  • Various players were contracted to oldco to play for the club.
  • Newco bought all of the assets of oldco, including the club and all of the players’ registrations.
  • By operation of TUPE the rights and obligations of the players under their playing contracts with oldco automatically passed over to newco unless any player rejected the TUPE transfer BEFORE it took effect.
  • Therefore any players who purported to leave the club after the purchase by newco have breached their valid contracts with newco and newco is entitled to damages from the players for breach of contract, and from the players’ new clubs for being party to said breach.

Therefore newco has a perfectly valid right to seek damages in the footballing process because, frankly, no one else can.

Oldco cannot pursue a claim for damages in respect of players who, allegedly, breached a contract with newco.

The club has no legal personality so it cannot do so either. I suspect, though stand to be corrected, that the players’ contracts with oldco specified that their employer was Rangers FC PLC, and that any new contracts signed by players since the asset purchase will be with Sevco Scotland Ltd under that name or the subsequent name changes.

I also imagine that the present players remain employed not by RIFC PLC, the newly floated “holding” company, but by the company owned by RIFC PLC.

If the ruling on jurisdiction had been that newco could not pursue the claim because they were not members of the SF at the applicable time, then this would have been an injustice, and would have barred their rights, in a football sense.

If such a decision had been made, then newco would have been perfectly entitled to pursue the matter through the civil courts, on the basis that there was no other forum for doing so. This would not have fallen foul of football’s prohibition against taking court actions. What other choice would newco have had?

Dealing briefly with the merits of the case, the biggest issue I see relates to the identity of newco. To be valid a TUPE transfer requires that the transferring employee knows to whom his contract is being passed over. Slavery has been abolished. Employees can refuse to work for a new employer if they do not want to, and have no obligation to give any reason for refusing to transfer.

That is one reason why it is common in some company purchases for the new owner, prior to the takeover, to discuss matters with key employees to ensure that they are happy to move, and indeed in some cases to have new contracts ready to go on takeover day.

The issue here is that all of the publicity pre-takeover, especially from Duff & Phelps, was to the effect that Sevco 5088 Ltd was buying the assets. As it turned out, after the takeover, the assets had been bought by Sevco Scotland Ltd.

Those are separate legal entities. It would not, in my submission, have been enough to tell players that the new owner was going to be a consortium headed by Mr Green – they needed to know to whom they were being transferred.

It all depends therefore on when the Sevco veil was pulled aside to reveal not Sevco 5088 Ltd but Sevco Scotland Ltd. When, as part of that process, were the players made aware of the relevant details to allow them to exercise their legal rights in an informed manner?

——————————————-

Now the Rangers argument regarding the Nimmo Smith Commission runs differently. It is as follows:

  • Oldco is alleged to have broken the rules when it owned the club.
  • Newco has never been a member of the SPL.
  • Newco did not become a member of the SFA until after the alleged wrongdoing and rule-breaking had been committed.
  • Newco have no connection with oldco, apart from having purchased assets from it.
  • Newco did not take over any oldco liabilities, with the exception of the “footballing debt” which it agreed to pay as a condition of being allowed to play in the SFL.
  • Therefore newco have nothing to do with the disciplinary charges and therefore the SPL and its Independent Commission can take no action against it.

The response by Lord Nimmo Smith’s Commission was an ingenious, yet practical and fair one.

  • It was accepted that newco legally was not connected to the case.
  • However, under the rules of football, the wrongdoing was committed, allegedly, by or for the benefit of the club.
  • The club is now owned by newco.
  • Any penalty which is imposed in the event of a guilty verdict could be imposed on “the club”.
  • As the owner of the club, newco clearly have an interest in the proceedings and therefore are subject to the Commission’s jurisdiction, not directly, but because of the asset it owns.

This makes logical sense. Otherwise a club owner could ride rough-shod over the rules and then, in a contrived or sham transaction, pass ownership to another entity and then claim that the club could not be punished as there was a new owner! (There is no suggestion that this was the arrangement between oldco and newco by the way.)

It is entirely legitimate to argue what seem, at first, to be mutually inconsistent propositions. When you look at them, they are not, in fact, inconsistent.

However, as part of the ever continuing PR battle, one might suggest that Rangers ought to be explaining themselves why they can pray in aid the same SFA against which they seem implacably opposed.

On the other hand, as Rangers fans generally seem willing to follow Mr Green’s every word religiously, and as some of Rangers’ opponents have the default position of everything he says being automatically bad (and for all that my critics suggest, that is NOT my default position), maybe there is no need for the Traynor-led Ibrox PR machine to make any explanation.

Should the SFA find against Rangers, one can already read the condemnation of the biased and Rangers-hating football authorities, entirely in the pockets of the team from the East End of Glasgow.

Posted by Paul McConville

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258 Comments

Filed under Charles Green, Football Governance, Rangers

258 responses to “Some Comment on “Rangers Compensation Claim Boost”

  1. cam

    Gotta have a chortle(i like that word) at that,could’ve been written by either the KGB or CIA propaganda machine during the cold war!
    No threats,no cheating,no huffs!!
    The referees strike caused by CFC fans and officials,Sami’s diving to qualify for the last 16 and banning Sellic minded wee Shug Keevins.
    It will all end the Celtic way,,,greeting,whinging and blaming.

    • JohnBhoy

      Predictable feeble whataboutery. The criticism against a referee – Dougie McDonald – who lied to his assistant and to Neil Lennon was merited; Sami did not dive; and Hugh Keevins’ alleged past allegiances are neither here nor there. Any comment on either your club’s discreditable conduct towards Dundee FC or Celtic’s commendable progress in Europe?

      That said, your weak attempt at deflection is a step removed from your recent right-wing fascist denigration of the disabled and the unemployed. Must be the company you keep.

      • arb urns

        u r on sticky ground jb firing discreditable conduct paintballs at sevco about DUNDEE FC. there were rivers of pish at dens aparently when tic first footed discovery city. left a calling card so to speak and scented their territory.

        • JohnBhoy

          Four drunks rightly done for relieving themselves does not equate to mocking the disabled or rioting in Manchester or rich bastards coming up with a corporate scheme to benefit themselves and other rich bastards to the detriment of hospitals and primary schools or threats to all and sundry or tens of thousands singing anti-Catholic songs without a peep from the msm or… No, the sins of Rangers and The Rangers, and their “fans”, far outweigh any misdemeanours by any other club, or their fans, in Scotland.

          If you think otherwise then your moral compass is in need of realignment.

          • arb urns

            ouch….refer u to my posts of 10.28 yesterday and 2.13 today ( which is in reply to your contrst post)…… its DUNDEE UNITED gers r boycotting hence the stcky ground…….. to explain i come at this from neither side of the wos divide andideally would see the whole rangers scenario reversed by bdo…..hmrc take security of the assets and rangers pay a rent to ukplc effectively till all creditors are satisfied in full. the fttt dec is reversed, previous directors personal responsibilites are examined for liabilities,lns does his work and recommends. at 10 % of pev gross t/o as rental everything could be over in 10 yrs or less.vision and sunglasses as butch cassidy said to the sundance kid

          • cam

            JB, ever had a wee investigative peek at the business practises of Denis O Brien?
            http://www.swp.ie/content/denis-o-brien-why-he-attacks-left
            I know the guy is rich but as to his being born out of wedlock i wouldn’t go there.
            Seemingly big Den doesn’t just go after the newspaper that has a dig at him he uses his wealth to threaten the individual reporter
            http://www.politics.ie/forum/media/193870-denis-obrien-threatens-vincent-browne-personal-libel.html
            I think big Den is currently a CFC shareholder and Eco could do a great job of highlighting the wonderful work done by this most genial of chaps.
            If you are of the opinion that the press reports from the Boxing Day festival of urine overstated the horrific scenes of CFC fans fighting amongst themselves then your green blinkers are in need of realignment.
            I don’t know if the Coyote’s extensive hunt for those who besmirched CFC’s good name has had any success but going by previous investigations i think it will stop at mouth music.
            At least Tayside’s finest collared one lost soul who will be the subject of a possibly intriguing case that could define Ms Findlay’s belief that singing songs about the IRA is not offensive but a legitimate political expression.

            • JohnBhoy

              More crafty conflation. I have no time for rich tax-dodging bastards of any hue. Your point is? Now if you can provide evidence of Celtic as a club participating in corporate cheating then I’m all ears. If you are upset about one man not paying his taxes then you must be apoplectic about Rangers’ corporate strategy.

              If you define the trouble at Dundee as “horrific” then treat us all to your description of the riot in Manchester, the bombs sent to Lennon and others, the slitting of a young boy’s throat by one of your mob? Did you join in at the chorus of the Billy Boys at Hampden?

      • Maggie

        @JohnBhoy
        Sami’s alleged diving is cam’s new mantra JB,seems the bhoys
        being in the last 16 of the CL has really unhinged poor cam.
        He trots it out in nearly every single post,Boring……
        I like cam and he’s obviously intelligent and funny,but he’s giving
        into his fellow followers and pursuing their idiotic line of utter
        garbage.I say we don’t engage with them and hopefully cam will
        get back to “normal” 🙂

        • JohnBhoy

          Maggie, given the tradition of diving and “penalties” awarded to Rangers over the decades, Cam’s amnesia and undeserved focus on Sami – who has turned out to be a superb player – is surprising.

          Cam is a puzzle – one minute he’s tickling us with genuine wit, for which he is to be applauded, then in the next breath out comes weird unsavoury shit. He’s good at pulling your leg but when you reciprocate he metamorphoses into a bear with a sore head.

          On a happier note, did you get tickets for the Juve game? Will be a great atmosphere at Parkhead.

          • ecojon

            @ JohnBhoy

            I’m surprised that you haven’t twigged why they are coming to hate Sami so badly – simply because he ha turned into an awesome player and before long will have scored more goals than Charlie Green 🙂

          • ecojon

            @JohnBhoy

            Or is he just posting scripts written by at least two different people from the way the ‘tone’ lurches from attempted funny to seriously vicious?

            • JohnBhoy

              That would explain the schizophrenic nature of the posts.

            • cam

              Eco old bhoy,don’t take the bait.Leave the dirty fighting to your tag team.I like your in depth exposes of the Gers finances,biographies of anyone connected with us and your fantastical suppositions.
              Stick to your new year resolution or i will have to do my Jackie Chan impersonation and take you all on at the same time!
              Dammit, i don’t know how to insert those childish smileys!!!
              Nah,don’t tell me,its better that i don’t know.
              Remember Eco,my name is Legion,for we are many!

          • Maggie

            @JohnBhoy
            Irony,as ever,is lost on cam et al.I posted to one of them last
            week,that in any given season,at least half of their team qualifies
            for the prize of a diver’s watch.
            I’m beginning to think that there is more than one cam…..have you
            seen some of those posts…..is he on some sort of hallucinogen,
            or mainlining the Buckie? You are 100% correct re the bear with
            a sore head,he can dish it out,but can’t take it,just like all those
            easily offended denizens of Ibrox.It would behove them to keep
            their powder dry for the LNS,BDO & HMRC road show.

            My bhoys all got tickets,but sadly I’ve been relegated to subs
            bench since acquiring a son in law two years ago 😦
            What can you do JB,tho am hopefully going to get a wee
            jaunt to Torino for the return leg….Forza Cel’ic

        • cam

          Fair Maggie,i realise that jousting with your hero JB can be blogging suicide but, heyho,i do like living dangerously.
          I didn’t see Sami’s “swanny” till weeks after the event and when i did and thought of Lenny casting up the dive by a Juve player a decade ago,i thought, ya wee hypocrite!
          I’m gonna attempt an Eco health and safety warning now.
          I really do hope and pray that in the interests of folk getting home safely to their loved ones that in the event of Juventus being awarded a penalty a la Sami’s balance disorder,that people realise its just a game.
          I have friends who are lifelong Juventus supporters who are scared to leave their homes just in case they are identified and peed on by rampaging incontinent hordes.

          • Maggie

            @cam
            Cam,WHAT is wrong with you? You’ve been uncharacteristically
            objectionable recently.
            You’ve really got it in for big GG ( Gorgeous Giorgios )
            I mean,seriously,he’s the least controversial Celtic player of
            recent times,Lenny has made him into a great player,he doesn’t
            play dirty and he’s an incredibly decent boy.Why are you always
            singling him out for opprobrium? Jealous much cam?
            Just heard from my lifelong Juve supporting friend that the good
            citizens of Torino are well relieved that their city is safe from
            destruction,as it’s the GOOD Glasgow fans who are coming to
            support

            • Maggie

              @cam
              To support their team.

            • cam

              Maggie,i’m a Bear and you can’t have a pet Bear.
              Big Sami doesn’t annoy me in the slightest,his career at CFC has been apart from the New Year OF game a total joke.
              Lenny couldn’t make a good player out of Messi!
              Just over a year ago to a man the CFC fans were looking for Lenny’s successor.He hasn’t done one identifiable thing to bring CFC out of the mediocrity that they display.
              You the CFC fans are very fickle,,you booed Lenny as a player,you booed him as a manager when he played second fiddle to a dreadful Gers team.
              Enjoy your Turin holiday and keep the Green Pee brigade under control.

            • cam

              Where’s mick? i do hope Mr Heaths family’s lawyers haven’t bothered him.
              C’mon Michael,we need your tuppence worth.

            • Ally McMoist

              I didn’t know Partick Thistle were playing Juve!

      • cam

        Good to have you back Johnbhoy,its much more satisfying to debate with someone who wears their heart on their sleeve.
        The atmosphere created by Lenny his club and its fans towards the officials will forever be remembered as one of the most shameful moments in the history of a club that can’t take defeat with dignity.
        http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/gif-georgios-samaras-dived-win-celtic-a-penalty-but-no-one-cares-as-the-scots-go-through/
        The video and comments from neutral sports journos defeat your next excuse.
        CFC going in a huff with the press is not a new phenomom.The Coyote has just refined the tactic.
        The decision by fans not to attend the DU game is what happens in democratic society.Remember CFC fans boycotting the Killie game?
        Having a laugh at benefit cheats who abuse the system hardly qualifies one as a “right wing fascist”.
        Right thats you dealt with JB,,,,next!

        • JohnBhoy

          Happy New Year Cam. Sami’s penalty was soft but he didn’t dive. Neil Lennon has put up with sectarian abuse, beatings, death threats and bombs, not to mention msm bias, but remarkably has managed to concentrate on his job. He is learning but has already produced a very good team and has an eye for young talent. Proof? Champions league football.

          Boycotting. Fans can take their custom where they please: that is their democratic right. However, when a club itself formally sanctions such conduct then it diminishes the club.

          As for your comment on the disabled, here is what you wrote: “and my hand never goes out to take the DLA.” DLA is for those who are disabled. When you made that comment you made no mention of benefit cheats. If anything you implied that those in receipt of DLA are all cheats. Disgraceful. You are better than that Cam.

          • cam

            Re your manful attempt to do me down as a mocker of the genuinely disabled,,,nah.
            I have previous and constant form,for mocking the chancers who claim benefits for all sorts of “afflictions” and we all know that there are many out there who view this country’s welfare state provisions as a soft touch.
            I don’t make distasteful comments about the disabled,but if you wanna run with that then on you go if it makes you feel better.

            • JohnBhoy

              Your comment on those in receipt of DLA was unambiguous. Here it is again: “and my hand never goes out to take the DLA.” Please point out the caveat that excuses the non-DLA cheats from your opprobrium.

              “… We all know that there are many out there who view this country’s welfare state as a soft touch.” Really? Where’s your evidence to support that claim?

          • Budweiser

            John Bhoy
            I’m sure that cam meant employee Benefit [trust] Cheats , who are indeed a disgrace.

            • cam

              I like that one!
              I’m gonna scar your napper now Bud,,,i have now slipped into my ninja pyjamas,splashed on the Hai Karate, loaded up the Kung Fu Matrix programme and stand surrounded by evil minions of Ming the Merciless.
              I want you to have that image as your last waking thought tonight Bud!
              Sweet dreams!

            • Maggie

              @cam
              That’s a bit more like,at least ONE,of your old selves.
              Have you also been brewing a wee medicinal tea of magic
              mushrooms? …Ninja pyjamas!!!!!!..Hai Karate!!!!!!!
              OMG cam,who even remembers that?
              Certainly not me,not at all,never even heard it. 🙂

            • Budweiser

              cam
              No chance, I am on carafe kid 2 now ,so sweet dreams.

            • arb urns

              oh the ninja pijis cam. make sure the chords r tied tight thegither woodnt want anyone seein that mushroom peepin oot the heather like.

            • Budweiser

              JohnBhoy NEWS FLASH !

              Two chancers took £750M [YES THAT’S RIGHT-£750 milllion smackeroos] from Ulster Bank and Bank of Scotland. No wonder that minty found it so easy to get cash from them. The judge said the banks had failed to do proper background checks- sound familiar? How many giros would that have paid cam?

        • Jamie

          “The atmosphere created by Lenny his club and its fans towards the officials will forever be remembered as one of the most shameful moments in the history of a club that can’t take defeat with dignity”

          Yes that right Manchester and bombs in the post pales into insignificance when you highlight cheating by officials and them being caught out. “Dignity” Your hypocracy is staggering at times…but I’m sure you already know that .Kyle Laffatme anyone!

          • cam

            Jamie,as a Tic fan,could you possibly clear something up for me?.I’ve asked this before but nobody answered.
            Fact(well maybe not);all refs are cheating masonic h*ns
            Fact;Dougie Dougie was caught in a lie
            Fact; the linesman got caught up in it
            Fact;the Dougster got himself into a lot of bother

            Now the bit that has always puzzled me,,,why did he award a penalty in the first place???
            I mean,if you wanna cheat the Tic then you turn away from the incident with a big masonic grin and wave play on.
            Its a puzzler.A bit like the ref who didn’t allow Lee Wallaces”goal” in the crucial OF game.
            I hate inconsistency in a conspiracy.
            Right i’m off to watch Prometheus and see if i can spot any members of the GB in training.
            Don’t start a rammy without me!

  2. Carl31

    Just had a thought.
    Have Rangers ever been in Administration?
    Kudos to the correct answer (if anyone can be bothered).

  3. Carl31

    Paul,
    Ive noticed a change in your blog.

    The descent into the most base of exchanges between contributors now happens more sharply, sooner into contributions to a post, and happens more often. There has never been any issue with contrary or contrarian opinion or views here, even in heated debate. Passionate contributions have been part of this blog for many many months, and there is no issue with them, indeed they are enjoyable mostly. But the type of post content and sentiment that seems to appear a bit more often doesnt come under that heading. Its the witless, often monosyllabic, insulting waste of pixellated space that I mean. I name no individuals, but they almost exclusively seem to come from from the Rangers minded.

    I cant quite put my finger on when this happened (it may have been change as a process, rather than change as an event) but it seems to have been more prevalent since the FTT verdict came out towards the end of last year.
    Around that time, there was a declared fightback from those of a Rangers persuasion elsewhere in the blogosphere, but this may have been coincidence. No doubt I would be very presumptious if I were to put the pleasant chat you had with a few legal persons representing the interests of Mr Green’s IPO under this heading of ‘fightback’.

    If the period when your blog was a (the?) most engaging and enjoyable read, with respectful contributions from all, with very few exceptions, can be given some kind of identity, then I’m afraid its now been altered.

    I lament its passing if it has gone, never to return.

    Lastly, may I suggest something to all contributors?

    Don’t feed the Trolls.

    • Steven brennan

      Carl31

      The descent does appear to be gaining pace, over the last week or so the petty insults, and not so petty appear to be taking over.
      I have noticed that some of the level headed contributors have been absent altogether. I have been logging on here for 8/9 months and the quality of post has been in freefall latel i wonder if we have been infiltrated by the trolls hoping to sicken us off the site.
      But that could be east end paranoia

      Please dont feed the bears!!!

    • Ernie

      Totally agree with that. The denegration of the discussion is a tactic but unfortunately some of us seem to find it hard not to respond to the whataboutery. Joining a discussion on moving to the conference, or whatever, I’m amazed and ashamed to find stuff about which Italian lodge was official or not, flags, terrorists and even hillbillys from each side of the valley consoling themselves on child abuse misunderstandings. It’s about fitba, business and a liberal dose of humour. At least the pathetic “my crowd’s bigger than your crowd” stuff is a common and pretty harmless, a lot of football fans appear to rely on the status of their fitba team to define them as a person.
      Ach, after 50 years of hearing all this from the scam that is sectarian fitba in Scotland I should know better than to complain but really guys…. it’s a con to fill their stadia, to get your money in, that’s all. Get rid of it and join the 21st century.

    • ecojon

      @carl31

      I think the run in towards the flotation was probably where I would place the ‘attack’ beginning but that is so close to the FTTT decision that I wouldn’t argue with the timing.

      There has been a concerted ‘feel’ to the whole thing and it has been on at least two levels. One has been to tackle at an intellectul level and by and large that has failed. The other is at a gutter level.

      Various posters appear to turn-up at the same time and some have more than one moniker. But one trick is that some posters have IMHO are sharing the ame ID almost on a shift system.

      The more intellectual ‘attackers’ have drifted away to a large extent after the flotation but the absolute scum are still here and more vile than ever.

      I don’t even know if the creatures I refer to are actually Rangers supporters or just getting paid for a job. Never ever doubt that there are million of £s in play and at stake so it’s easy to throw some chump-change at punters to spend time on here and other sites.

      It’s even happening to Rangers fan sites although the ‘message’ is different there to meet the different objective that are required.

      These are desperate times for a lot of people with a lot to lose but Scottish Football ha a lot to lose as well so i’ll be sticking around fighting its corner when and where I can.

      I have no problem with genuine Rangers supporters who might have differing views to mine and there are some who I am happy to debate with because they don’t live in a sewer of bile. The ones I talk of have something to offer to the debate and often make me think about my position and arguments.

      Others who appear to have suffered terrible personal traumas in their life at some stage show with their fixation on certain subjects that normal people instinctively avoid that they require medical help. If any normal person has evidence of any criminal wrongdoing, especially if young or vulnerable people are involved, like me they would report it to the police.

      The twisted mind who has no evidence comes to a blog, such as this, to falsely attack people of a different religion or football affiliation. That’s how they get their kicks.

      They should never be fed and totally utterly ignored at all times. This is a good site so let’s keep the normal high standards going and have an early spring-clean to eject the sewer dwellers and allow decent posters to debate.

      Yea we’ll fall out and we’ll disagree and I’ll still ignore some posters but I recognise that they have the same right to be here as I have and to say whatever they want as long as the language stays reasonable and the vile undertones are removed.

      • Maggie

        @ecojon
        …..tackle at an intellectual level and by and large that has failed….
        Failed BIG TIME eco and there is the rub.
        They know they’re on a hiding to nothing,so out comes the
        insults,whataboutery and repetition of the same old garbage.
        Remember that troll who continually posted ” Only show in town”
        ad infinitum.That really told us,didn’t it..OH..PUHLEASE!!!!!

        I think the tenor of the site changed with the FTTT result.They
        became brave and at last had a bit of a weapon to use against
        all of us who thought it would go against them.Fair enough,I cut
        them some slack as I’m a fair minded wummin,but enough’s
        enough.We now have LNS etc to look forward to.I’m predicting
        more intellectual defeat on the horizon.
        I’m with you eco,do not feed the trolls,starve them out.

    • GWG

      I enjoyed my short time posting on here BUT…. the minute my posts began to be we put “on hold” then that was time to take my 60 years of football knowledge elsewhere. I’m not bitter about that, but it did annoy me that certain Sevco promoters were allowed a free hand to ridicule and be snide to the good and knowledgeable people on here so now I just pop in now and then to see what is happenng ~~~~~ your loss!!

      • JohnBhoy

        @GWG
        Why not reconsider and give it another go.

        • Maggie

          @GWG
          Please do give it another go.
          I personally bring NO football knowledge whatsovever to
          this site :-),but I love my team and I love the intelligent analysis
          of the Rangers’ implosion.Most of all I love the banter which
          is of a higher standard than you’ll find elsewhere.
          We’ve all been educated and informed through this site.
          (thanks Mr Mc Conville)

          Btw I DO understand the offside rule tho’ 🙂

      • ecojon

        @GWG

        I think most of us end-up on moderation at times usually because we have used a word which is on the ‘filter’. If you have a problem then you should raise it with Paul and I’m sure it can be sorted. I haven’t a clue why you were on moderation as Paul allows a very wide range of views and does not ban on opinions like a helluva lot of sites.

        Of course language used is a different matter and sometimes I fall foul of that but we can all transgress on occasion. It’s just a question of not continuing whatever it is that could potentially offend. But that’s up to Paul and you should address any queries to him so that there is no confusion.

      • rab

        The Scottish Football Monitor blog has also fallen into the hands of sevcovites. Absolutely no questioning of freemasons role in decision making in the corridors of power is tolerated. No response allowed to sevcovites who state that the deid club is still alive either. Even adam, who has never posted on TSFM, is beyond criticism. I find myself barred from commenting now. Definite concerted effort by the sevcovites to disrupt the excellent work done on blogs like Pauls and RTC’s offspring.

      • @GWG

        A few posts ago I was replying to some comments but, although the 1st reply got posted immediately I was then “put into moderation.” This puzzled me at the time as IMHO I hadn’t written anything which could be considered controversial.

        The next day, however, I found that my comments were once again being posted so I put it down to a word or phrase which as Eco says was on the “filter.” Had I been kept “in moderation” I intended to contact Paul directly to query the cause, as I would be loth to make the same mistake again. Just a thought.

        One other thing – while a commenter can see his own comments awaiting moderation, there is no way to tell if others are being held (or indeed have already been passed.)

        It would be a shame to lose a reasonable & reasoned poster to the trolls; Please reconsider.

    • cam

      I agree with your analysis of the FTTT verdict and the blogging fightback by Gers fans.
      We at Ibrox have been slow,lazy hibernating Bears, content to guzzle everyones honey and ignore the annoying B’s buzzing around us.But we have now woken up to the damage that can be caused by malicious sweetie wives in cyber space.
      The RTC creature had a long leisurely kickfest at the rudderless Gers only to hightail it when the big deid Zombie opened an all seeing eye.
      His/her/its day will hopefully come(in a court) ,,,just in case the usual mince gets served up.
      Paul then found out that the Zombie had actually went out and hired a couple of lawyers to study the “incoming” cyber missiles.
      I have discovered all kinds of sites some disgusting and some informative on both sides.
      The network of old bhoys is well estabilished and the Gers sites will,like the team take a while to get up to speed to counter the opposition.
      One of the main “heroes” in the Celtic team,,the incubator chappie actually was the architect of his own “Downfall” and has been relegated to the bench.
      The Bear has been kicked awake,its angry and its gonna “have a word with the owners of the size nines”.
      Soon though after the various SPL/BDO and HMRC round 2 battles have been decided then this blog will be able to return to a more sedate form of legal whataboutery with the frequent kicks at the Gers going unheeded as we shall go back into peaceful sleep after dealing with the angry B’s

    • Den

      There have been a number of episodes, they are getting more frequent and more bitter.

      Unless something changes this trend will continue. Stricter moderation is the obvious answer. That will change the character of the blogg and takes a lot of effort.

      An alternative is for the genuine posters to apply some self discipline, ignore the trolls, tone down the aggression, keep away from religion and no name calling. It is hard given the insidious nature of the trolls.

      I am finding it a pain reading a lot of dross but there is still a lot of good stuff here that makes it worth the effort. Keeping the standard high is the best way to fight back.

      Like other people I would like non trolling Rangers supporters on this blogg but in honesty if any looked in recently they would not considered contributing.

    • Pensionerbhoy

      @Carl31

      I posted along similar lines several weeks ago. While I enjoy a good debate heated or otherwise, I find it frustrating when good argument degenerates to name calling and drunken pub-talk. I too have witnessed a growing trend in this sort of “banter”. I have watched some of our best and most competent commentators and bloggers slide down the slippery slope of mud-slinging, dragged into the depraved intellectual depths of the antagonists they respond to. I understand perfectly how this happens. We see and participate in it every day of our own personal lives. It is the most natural and human response to what appears an insulting slur upon one’s person or opinions. It is the most human of human responses.

      What saddens me most is that it drags down the overall tone of the site. Paul’s work is not deserving of such offensive writing. On here we have the potential for impartial information and advice and yet we seem content to reduce it to a “slanging match” or name calling. I love this site. Paul and so many other contributors and commentators have done so much to extend my knowledge and understanding of things legal and financial, with explanations way beyond my comprehension. Most of all, what I read on here brings me back to earth when my wishful thinking has me floating in the realms of fantasy. I, like most on here, can be carried away with rumoured outcomes not established, with hopeful results that might easily be quashed and above all hopes of the ideal which rarely come to fruition. Without the temperance of this site, I would be frothing and flailing like any mad dog. Such an animal may evoke one’s curiosity but one would do well to remember it is only one bite away from a fatal infection.

      I do not wish to be a wet blanket unless in desperation. Sometimes when you reach my age, wetting the blanket may not only be unavoidable, it may even be convenient. I digress. So that aside, I do enjoy a bit of proper witty banter. If I may be bold enough to borrow a definition from Wikipedia ” Banter is non-serious conversation, usually between friends, which may rely on humour or in-jokes at the expense of those taking part. The purpose of banter may at first appear to be an offensive affront to the other person’s face. However, people engaging in such a conversation are often signalling that they are comfortable enough in each others’ company to be able to say such things without causing harm”. To me the central element of this definition is in the final wording “to be able to say such things without causing harm”. I am far from convinced that a lot of the so called banter on this site in recent months falls into this category. It has verged at times on the vicious, the hateful and the abusive.

      A believe laughter is welcome at any time or in any place. Humour is a useful therapy and may even have the placebo effect. A jibe, a jest or a “rib” should never be beyond the tolerance of any mature person. It enhances arguments. It relieves tensions. It often wins debates. So, how can I possibly be a critic of this extremely useful feature? But when it is out of control and loses its genuineness, then it becomes a threat to the quality of the posts on this site. Some bloggers have even confessed to suffering red mists as a consequence of this aberration. It has kept me from many a comment as I have no wish to be drawn into the mire of verbal attacks. I hope the site can return to the mature, respectful and humorous language that made it so special in the first place.

      • Steven brennan

        Pensionerbhoy
        The best post today.
        Ps lady tena are awsome

      • Maggie

        @Pensioner Bhoy
        A great post PB,you’ve been missed lately.
        Agree with you 100%.Ah the wisdom of age….that
        was affectionate banter re your definition above 🙂

        All who read and post here have certainly had an
        education in all sorts of unexpected areas,quite an
        achievement for a blog ostensibly about Scots Law.
        Though to paraphrase that other great sage Homer ( Simpson)
        ….. every time I learn something new it pushes some of the
        …….old stuff out of my head ……Argh!!!!!
        Now I’ll never beat those smug “bar stewards”on Eggheads,
        unless there’s a category on gratuitous alienation.

        • Pensionerbhoy

          And you think I’m good, Maggie? What wit – it is said to be the smoothest passage to the centre of man’s soul – and you have it abundance and combined with your cooking and a man’s heart you should have all bases covered. Keep it going. By the way regarding my age, have no worries. I went to school with the other Homer, he of the curly beard and missing eyes. He invited me on his odyssey but I passed as I suffered terribly from sea-sickness and was allergic to golden floozies. If you see him around, say hello for me, will ya! 🙂

  4. Afternoon gents ! What are we talking about today ? (Sarcasm at it’s best )

  5. Afternoon gents ! What we talking about today ? ( sarcasm at it’s best )

  6. Sir Nicholas Fairbairn/

    Tis a little known fact but Richard Clayderman has sold more records than The Who

  7. Good luck to wee chesney for getting the jacobite job , he’ll need it when those Muppets in skirts from every croft in tuechter land turn on him , but the real big question is this , is wee chesney Scotland minded enough for the job ?

    • ecojon

      @jimlarkin

      In one sense I’m not surprised the journo concerned is still at the Reformer after 8 years. But in another I am as he seems IMHO an excellent candidate to sup the succulent lamb.

      Very worrying that with a world exclusive opportunity he has decided not to reveal some of Green’s utterances: ‘He even managed quite a few laughs with some well aimed quips, but perhaps it is best to keep them under wraps’.

      I can only wonder who and what the well-aimed quips were aimed at but reading the intrepid reporter’s report in his own paper I see that the paying public are kept in the dark as well although they aren’t even told about the witheld quips:

      http://www.rutherglenreformer.co.uk/rutherglen-news/rutherglen-local-news/2013/01/16/gers-chief-visits-rutherglen-63227-32606781/

      All very curious and it actually says a lot about the state of the media industry. I genuinely believe the fact that the reporter concerned, according to the Rangers Standard: ‘Is a season ticket holder at Ibrox and travels to away games with the Toryglen True Blues RSC’ will not have affected his judgement or how he wrote the article.

      But perhaps his superiors should have decided that he shouldn’t have been placed in the position that he was – as good journalism, as well as justice, has to be not only done but seen to be done. Perhaps his boss can ask for an exclusive follow-up revealing the quips – I’m sure that some of the local readership would love to know.

      However, I am sure that the reporter has done a service to Rangers fans by revealing that Green: ‘Had no intention of taking any money out of Rangers. Instead, he would leave Rangers with shares for his kids and grandkids’.

      He also revealed Green had never been paid less before – I’ll need to check back some records as that’s not my memory but I’ll let you know in a future post. And, ever one for his personal records like his school sprint records, Green says he was a better striker than Flo.

    • Budweiser

      jimlarkin
      I know this meeting took place in a pub but where were the relevant questions in the Q&A? ie How are the plans for redevelopments eg casino hotels, train station etc , taking shape? but more importantly, no mention of Nimmo Smith and potential sanctions – no mention of the lack of representation by rangers at the hearings.By my reckoning there are only 12 days till the hearings commence and the silence out there is deafening
      There is no mention in rangers standard, rangers media,rangers official site and no mention on the SPL site even on their ‘important dates in January. Have I entered a twilight zone or have I missed it and the SPL have listened to sally’s plea to ‘just drop it’? Do they think that if they put their fingers in their ears and sing la la la la la it wll just go away?

      • ecojon

        @Budweiser

        It’s all part of the fightback campaign to take control of the internet away from the Vatican. When the Pope got his iPad and started on twitter it sent shivers through the blue brigade and they had to act to keep control of the bluegosphere 🙂

      • Budweiser

        @ ecojon

        No mention on Biggart Baillie website. If chico does have a last minute change of heart who will represent them? I have seen zilch on the ‘conflict of interest ‘ in representing newco/oldco since Paul’s blog on the subject.
        Considering the passions generated by the prospects of title stripping
        amongst fans, sally and chico, the absence of any comment on the matter at this late stage confounds me. Perhaps the yellow ostrich will replace the red lion on their logo.

        • ecojon

          @Budweiser

          I think the UNDERNOTED from the Rangers Flotation Prospectus is quite informative.

          It obviously attempts to link the SPL EBT investigation with the FTTT when we all know that the two are not interdependent on each other even though some evidence might be ‘shared’.

          It also IMHO negates the concept of the continuing club and the liability which attaches to future holding companies of a continuing club. It’s back to the same old dodge of trying to have your cake and eat it.

          The statement: “If the Commission seeks to find grounds to impose sanctions which affect the Club retrospectively, such as stripping the Club of historic achievements such as title wins, the legal basis for any such sanctions would be strongly challenged”.

          Perhaps it’s just me but I was clearly under the impression that LNS has already declared the legal grounds for imposing sanctions on TRFCL and as far as I know TRFCL has not legally challenged this and in fact did not attend the LNS enquiry to present an argument against which surely must hobble any later legal challenge anyway.

          If a multi-million £ fine, clawback or whatever or a suspenssion or ejection is applied then I wonder if the institutional investors will be happy with the final comment: “The Directors do not believe that a financial impact could arise”.

          As always time will tell.
          ========================================================
          UNDERNOTED
          “The SPL announced that an independent Commission would decide whether RFC 2012 plc had breached the relevant SPL regulations and whether RFC 2012 plc should be sanctioned accordingly.

          “In September 2012, RFCL explained in a public statement that it is unrelated to these investigations and would not be participating in the Commission investigation as it has no jurisdiction over RFCL.

          “It is understood that the Commission will begin to hear the case against RFC 2012 plc not before January 2013. In light of the decision of the tax tribunal it is currently not clear what the outcome of the Commission Investigation would be. It is understood that HMRC will appeal the decision of the tax tribunal.

          “RFCL has not under the APA assumed legal responsibility for the liabilities of RFC 2012 plc and is not a member of the SPL. RFCL does not have any liability in relation to the EBT, the Commission does
          not have jurisdiction over RFCL for the purpose of any investigation or any resulting determination made, and therefore has no jurisdiction to impose sanctions on RFCL.

          “If the Commission seeks to find grounds to impose sanctions which affect the Club retrospectively, such as stripping the Club of historic achievements such as title wins, the legal basis for any such sanctions would be strongly challenged by the RFCL Group or the Rangers Group. The Directors do not believe that a financial impact could arise, but it could result in management time and attention being diverted from the operation of the business of the RFCL Group and the Rangers Group.”

          • Budweiser

            @ecojon

            ‘—-the legal basis for any such sanctions would be strongly challenged by the RFCL or the Rangers Group’.
            Imo the jurisdictional issue has already been settled ,firstly by Harper MC Leod [ primae facie case ] and Nimmo Smith [continuing entity of club] .
            Nothing can be taken for granted [witness the hmrc case] but if the decision goes against rflc and sanctions are imposed, chico is leaving rangers with only two options and those are 1]- to contest the the result in a court of law [ uefa may have issues with this] or 2] Ignore the sanctions [The we do not recognise the court defence ] .
            In 1] above ,this might be the best solution, as then we might finally be given definitive answers to all the continous club/oldco newco questions.
            In 2] above, at the risk of sounding paranoid, could this delaying tactic be chico’s heaven sent solution via restructuring? ie no SPL, no case to answer?

      • portpower

        sevcos` goal is to become better than Manchester United. They`ll never learn? Look what happened with the effort to become equals with Celtic FC 1888. Your mission, sevco, should you decide to accept it is, can you with- stand the pressure of 17 teams in division 3.

  8. mcfc

    He (Ally) said: “Being honest, the top level of player doesn’t want to come and you can totally understand that.”

    Maybe that’s because on top of everything else “the top level player” can’t work out which league he’d be playing in next season – or even which country. Don’t forget the law of unintended consequences Ally

    http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/8403439

    • ecojon

      @mcfc

      The torrent of press releases means that I doubt if they have the time to actually think-through the conequences. It’s reaching the stage that even the MSM is getting confused and some days the ‘line’ is totally garbled which is bad news from a PR point of view.

      There should be a strategic PR plan in place and the press releases should be geared towards achieving the laid-down objectives.

      I reckon everything smacks of short-termism and hurried decisions with frequent changes of mind. There also seem to be a failure to separate the corporate governance issues with what are footballing matters.

      Ally should be talking and dealing with the football side and stop getting dragged into Main Board issues. The classic is that he seems to argue for staying and playing in Scotland where Green initially was for the off ASAP. That has changed as cold reality has struck viz no one actually wants them although the Conference might fancy their dosh – a bit like the SFL 🙂

      And then does Green speak for the Main Board or as CEO or as a shareholder. When he say he wants out of Scotland does he speak for Rangers International or for TRFCL. And when are the MSM actually going to ask who he speaks for?

      • ecojon

        @mcfc

        Oh and I meant to say – a major reason a top level player won’t come to Rangers is because, as a club they can’t afford the transfer fees or to pay top level wages.

        Ally doesn’t seem to know that investors have been promised that players’ wages are being held to one third of turnover. I’m not sure what the percentage is at the moment but I thought it was currently higher than that – so does that mean that existing wages have to be cut as apparently is being attempted with their goalie. That could be scrapped of course following the Australian keeper deciding not to move to Ibrox.

      • mcfc

        @eco

        Absolutely – but I can imagine that Green is dismissive of “strategy” and just shoots from the lip – leaving everyone else trying to catch up and square the circle of whatever new paradox he creates. Now that would be a challenge for any experienced PR man – but Jabba is NOT a PR man and is off on his egotistic own riff, whilst Ally just blunders around under even the most benign questioning.

        Result – junior PR people doing the best they can to contain the bullshit lagoon.

    • portpower

      It`s a three way split. Who comes first swally? Club,team or fans?
      Oh, hang on a minute, it`s a four way split. Club,team,fans or company.
      We have a chook raffle. Get your tickets out please. I would`nt bother it`s rigged.

    • Den

      Rangers don’t need top players because they are not in a top league. They can’t afford them anyway.

      Also has really put his players and future signings in their place.

  9. mcfc

    Paul

    Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but often there’s only a “Leave a Reply” box rather than “Leave a Comment” box – so a new comment is put as a reply to an apparently random existing posts..

  10. mick

    hi every1 what a academic telling off every1 has given them there 20 nil down on the back peg on there own goal line with 2 mins to go lol has any pick up on the brian kennedy stokeport deal and could sevco end up a feeder club to them or actually buying them and replaceing them in england lol hope so as sally and green are getting a bit boring now ????

  11. What about , ” are you lonesome tonight ” ( the king ) for the teams coming out next week at the united game ?

  12. cam

    Well Prometheus was worth missing two hours of rising temperatures in here.JB has started to unravel already and i shall leave him with the confirmation that the scenes in Manchester were disgraceful,the intimidation of Lennon also.
    The sicko that murdered the young lad has no association with me on any level other than he may have called himself a Gers fan.
    I would prefer you not to associate me with “that mob”
    Its a bit too late for a CTC as all the paperwork from the magic turnstiles is well gone and we Gers fans don’t tend to obsess over these things,we just beat you on the park.
    Its good to see that the presence of a living Gers team even in the 3rd div. can still upset the bhoys and if no Gers fans visited this site would the more extreme CFC fans get as much pleasure if nobody read their drivel and countered it with their own?
    The FTTT verdict has obviously enraged the Tic fans and the fear of the establishment doing their Royal duty to assist the Queens eleven is gnawing away.
    Now a wee read at the business practises of Dermott before i go to sleep and leave the custodians of bitterness to get all sweaty in their fugue state.

    • portpower

      cam would you laugh with the sicko?
      stand up and tell him he did wrong?
      or sit back and let it slide because all will be just fine because in the long run WATP?

    • arb urns

      outed cam by association- Establishment,Royal Duty Queens X!. The rest of the UK knows Her Majesty would rather have the small matter of c £90 oddm in her handbag than your club masquerading as ‘loyal’. A mean what type is it that would ‘relocate’ this sum from the realm and stand proud in Union Jack pyjies at sundown.

      Try imagining this c£90m being available for the expansion of your westside belisha beacon empire, a basic rate of tax at 10pc come greengages day, double the number of gb’s in yer van to “twist the melons” of or off and contrast it with a hooky offshore payday loan scheme, an illegal DOS Scheme, deliberate non-payment of income tax and enic all ‘relocations’ from the monarchy then add the vast number of small businesses that exist to put bread on the table and fit all this into Allys ” we dont do walkin away”….naw we run like f could b the sequel…..

      Anyway I have confidence this new Japanese Assistant of yours will light up your belisha and let you comprehend ,b careful though it appears she has already got you reading the literature from the other side, get her to read u to a louse, last verse is enough, when she performs last thing tonight.

      have a nice day.

      • cam

        You cannot “out” me sir,i stand before you in all my glory, a proud Bear with his paw in the honey jar surveying my kingdom and looking at the mess the naughty little weasels have made during my hibernation.
        The fantasy figure that you speak of was but a dream inserted into the thick nappers of the disciples of the Scarlet Pimpernel of cyberspace.
        Commander Leggo has spotted another possible hazard to steering a clear course in these shark infested waters.
        I wonder if the bhoys at Harpers Bizarre are quaffing free samples of Magners?
        Now that my investigations have revealed the awful news that i must add Bramley apples to my boycott list then its rhubarb crumble for me.
        My Belisha beacon will shine light into the darker recesses of this Shelob’s lair.
        Forget HMRC 2,,,,the deil’s awa wi the exciseman.

        • arb urns

          konichiwa cam

          a fine riposte sir “cock up yer beaver” as the great bard might hav sung. if only rabbie had an ebt he might hav avoided the deil o’ excisemen.

          just think cam theres 8000 o these dam ebts oot there the excisemen dont like, if u guys did the honorouble thing like the gooners and wrote a wee non bouncing u and me could recover at gers rates £5.000.000.000bn for her majesty. r ye in ? or r ye still ok wi aw these loans that ir never gonna b repaid and even if the herbert kontermans et al wer asked,kin we hiv oor money back? theyve got anither wee sider that says its ok rangers hiv indemnified ye frae they deilish excisemen,

          dont get that paw stuck in the jar, we could meet up the back o’ the terracing at tannadice to discuss gettin elizabeth r her money back if yer in.

          syonara the noo

  13. Seems I am posted as I should not have been , ie , hid I the middle or left in moderation , is this freedom of speech or is it the stasi at work ? Are people allowed to pour scorn on others ? Are people allowed innuendos about others ? Are people allowed to have snide comments about others and their teams and beliefs without a reply ? If so I will gladly leaves this site , but remember freedom of speech and expression are what my grandfather and others died for , if this site is turning into a Celtic tribute , anti Rangers site then good luck, but sometimes the truth hurts.

    • portpower

      My Grandfather died and never returned also Carson but he did`nt die so cheats can prosper. Have you ever had the feeling that you`ve been used and abused to help the few? You are one of the few. To mention any war on a football argument is just a cop out to what lies infront of you. To mention freedom of speech is just ludicrous. We live in a democratic dictatorship. Tune into clyde1. You can divest my comments all you want sevco supporters but what you have done to everyones beautful game in Scotland and the rest of the World …………………well you figure it out because you`re on your own.
      Uncle Charlie for Prime Minister. WATP.

    • Allfanstogether

      Carson,
      Why do sevco fans always bring it back to wars, fighting for the cause, fighting funds etc, why?, can it not be just about football.

  14. k

    Hi Paul. Yosemite Sam was good but hey not good enough, try this

    Cmon lads you can do better we are the Romans we hate the Christians intae them intae them, Sorz eco somebody had to point it out and a just couldnae hod ma water anymore smiley face.

  15. cam

    True what they say about clouds and silver linings,a good good friend of mine from Bayern in Munich,who runs a bouncy castle party firm has been secretly contacted by a third party, connected loosely to a season ticket holder at the Thunderdome with a view to installing InflateAfans to the growing numbers of Green seats embarassing the Coyote.
    I would try to improve the wi-fi reception if i was Pedro,then the bhoys could take their laptops in and clatter away about the Gers whilst watching the guff on the pitch.

    • portpower

      cam I hear uncle charlies` taking the tv screens down so he can fit more supporters in for the Dundee United cup game. Pleasant viewing to you`se all. Beambacks are the way foward.

  16. Pingback: Rangers Suffer Defeat at the SFA Arbitration Panel – False Hopes and Winking Sheriffs | Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville

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