Is There A Limit To Charles Green’s Temerity – Guest Post by Jon

Jon (who is neither Ecojon nor JohnBhoy before anyone starts to accuse him of “dual log-ins” etc) has contributed the following piece, prompted by an exchange on Sky on Thursday. It is my fault that it was not posted before now.

 ————————————-

5.29 pm December 13, 2012 Sky Sports News

Kirsty Gallagher

“Rangers Chief Executive Charles Green believes they should never have been relegated to the bottom tier of Scottish Football. He thinks they deserve an apology after a judge threw out a claim from the taxman that the old Rangers were liable for over £50m.”

Charles Green

“We’ve always maintained that no decision should have been made till the outcome of this tax case was known. Ah, Clubs and indeed, you know SPL started this title eh, stripping escapade, ah (sic), all of which we felt were premature. Of course the judgement which came out two weeks ago vindicates Murray Group and indeed Rangers and so there is an element of prejudge; so where we were supposedly cheating and we were using these schemes to win titles is now not the case and the disappointment, I feel, is not that we’re now in the third division, and we’re happy with our life and we’re moving on with it, is that no-one’s been big enough to apologise. We haven’t had any comments from the people who made these judgments to say, ‘actually we were wrong we judged you too early’ and that’s the sad part of it.”

————————————-

Kirsty,

Do you and your colleagues at Sky not understand Rangers were not relegated to the bottom tier of Scottish Football? Their SPL share was transferred to Dundee FC because Rangers FC was to be liquidated and rules did not permit a new team, at that time called Sevco 5088, to be admitted to the top tier of Scottish football.

Secondly, whilst a judge voted in favour of Rangers in their case against the taxman the decision is to be appealed and so no final decision has actually been made but I do commend you for making the distinction that there is an old club called Rangers so why the confusion about relegation in your opening sentence?

Now Chico, is there any limit to your temerity?

1)      You have not always maintained that no decision should have been made till the outcome of the tax case was known. That is a lie. The old Rangers was to be liquidated and decisions had to be made as to who would take their place in the SPL, regardless of the FTT. Unfortunately for you, as the rules went there was no place for your newco.

2)      As far as any title stripping escapade goes, it has only just begun and we await the verdict. They may well find in favour of the old Rangers but that will still have no bearing on where your new team are currently playing nor should it have done previously.

3)      The tax case did not vindicate Murray Group and we await the appeal but either way, bear in mind that a murderer charged with 20 murders and convicted of 3 is still a serial killer. (Editor’s Note – this is NOT a suggestion that anyone connected with Rangers has ever been a serial killer).

4)      No-one’s been big enough to apologise? Apologise for what exactly? And did the old Rangers ever apologise to the people they didn’t pay for services rendered?

The longer these myths perpetuate about poor hard-done-by Rangers being relegated to the third division in their 140th year etc the more the delusion sets in and it is very dangerous indeed – the fabrication of history is tantamount to an Orwellian nightmare.

The question is, what can we do about a moronic mainstream media that continues to ignore facts after all that’s happened and no doubt is yet to unfold?

Now that’s the saddest part of all.

Posted by Jon

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83 Comments

Filed under Charles Green, Guest Posts, Rangers

83 responses to “Is There A Limit To Charles Green’s Temerity – Guest Post by Jon

  1. mick

    well said jon the whole msm is deluding the bears on a daily basis its sick to watch and at sometimes sinister the thing that hurts most is the lack of remorse shown for cheating all the evidence stredded and its a industrial scale cover up ibrokes is now the joke of sport due to it and will never recover as each day passes they become a bigger joke its all doomed to fail and time will see the true picture come out the new club is as tainted as there last 25 titles and cups they are the sadest people on earth and they know it its like a comicial sport version of the trueman show the whole country and all over the world has seen them for what they are a nothing cheating bunch of deluded orcs ,no matter what the msm say and fail to report at least we have our own online media to tell it like it is and to some it all up they were protesting about a union flag at a building which flys the Saint Andrews flag a just cant get my head round how daft they are and why they are think they own this island britian is ours not theres they are a stian on our nation and have finally been brought back down to earth as a culture they resemble a backwards cult they are not what britian stands for and never will be and never have been the 4 nations see them as a joke and just laughs at there daftness now ,they hold the country back as they cant intergriate as the world is changing and it has left them behind

  2. mick

    “Orwellian” is an adjective describing the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free and open society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past, including the “unperson” — a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments. Often, this includes the circumstances depicted in his novels, particularly Nineteen Eighty-Four.

    you are well on the ball there jon
    heres the clatters comparison on it all

    • cam

      That “Orwellian” world sounds like the fun park being operated by Coyote Pete.
      Mick,you are deluded to think that folk listen to and believe the MSM.
      You are now up to 25 “tainted” trophies,,is that you using the Seville calculator?
      The question is posed “what can we do about the msm”

      Answer,bring out a publication that prints the version of the truth that you want to hear,,simples.
      If the tax case=murder analogy had came from the lovely Kirsty’s lips then i would scrub her from my Xmas wish list.

      • mick

        An a gave up on msm as its a waste of trees also it political lies and full of adverts there’s more spam than news also as a tribute to the bloggers a stopped buying it a flick throw the net for my news now it has given me a higher iq saved me money and reduced my carbon footprint am not deluded and you know it email and ask green to relise a copy of the deeds then and then you can make us all eat our words

      • mick

        http://www.channel4.com/news/where-would-rangers-trophies-go 20 major titles and cups but you have to count the glasgow cups and stuff to as they were cheated also

  3. ecojon

    Chico is a cracker and the Scottish MSM must be praying that he leaves behind some kind of ‘success’ at Ibrox otherwise they will be shown to have learnt nothing from Minty & Craigie.

    It would appear from reading MSM contributions and watching STV & Sky that they have either not read the Prospectus or totally failed to understand what it said.

    As to the ‘relegation’ fiction – it’s also proclaimed in the Flotation document in all it’s glory – a document meant to present a balanced and accurate picture of Rangers to potential investors 🙂

    I didn’t see the Sky broadcast – probably still chucking-up after watching the STV vanity appearance provided for chico to attack the walk-away players and sell a few shares. He should have been charged adverting rates. And yet STV wants to bring us the content for the new ‘independent’ local TV stations currently being set-up.

    All I can say is that if the chucky interview was a sample of what STV will provide gawd help us all 😦

    • mick

      Good afternoon ecojon with sush a lack of transparacy about the deeds and all the off shore movement a cant see green leaving behind a good legacy the msm have been bullied in to submission by the orcs for green to do and say as he feels

  4. Adam

    ” they become a bigger joke”
    “they are the sadest people on earth”
    “cheating bunch of deluded orcs”
    “just cant get my head round how daft they are”
    “they are a stian on our nation”
    ” they resemble a backwards cult”
    “they are not what britian stands for”
    “the 4 nations see them as a joke”
    “they hold the country back”
    “they cant intergriate”

    Surely im not the only one that gets the irony of this dirge and bile. Nothing but pure hatred. And it follows on from last weeks bile.

    ” fxxk off txxl”
    “adam your a wxxker fxxk oxf txxl”

    Is this what people want to read on here ? Really ??

    • ecojon

      @ Adam

      It seems you believe it’s what people want to read as you keep repeating it 🙂

      • Adam

        I dont believe it should be left and not called out. Its sheer hatred ecojon and anyone reading that and not thinking so is crazy.

        It wouldnt be out of place at an EDL rally.

        • ecojon

          @ Adam

          I learnt a long long time ago that just because someone has been certified as mad doen’t mean they cannot tell the truth. So it goes with hatred – hating something or someone doesn’t necessarily mean that there is no truth in everything you say about them or it.

          Some of what mick says I agree with and some I disagree with and yet other bits I would have expressed differently. Personal viewpoints are usually based on personal experiences and although various factors can alter recollection again it doesn’t necessarily mean that anything has been fabricated which I take is what you mean by ‘blind hatred’.

          It is also the reason that sometimes I will ignore statements, whether I agree with them or not, as I can guess where the argument almost inevitably leads – that is why I made the remark about you repeating them which didn’t strike me as wise but it is your decision at the end of the day.

    • mick

      Face the truth Adam man up and say sorry on behalve of rfc for 15years of cheating via financial doping

    • mick

      “its like a comicial sport version of the trueman show ”
      you missed a bit adam or are you to ashamed to text that part o and a could go over the insults you have thrown at me throw out the last few weeks but a wont as am not in to what a bout ya

      • Adam

        Any insults, and i think you would really struggle to find anything that wasnt factual, that have been directed at you have been down to the purile nonsense and bile you have written on here.

        What i dont then do is look at you and tag everyone who supports Celtic as the same by classing them all as hate filled people who argue facts on topics they dont even know the name of, based on my experience of you.

        There is a difference.

        As i said, the stuff up above is akin to what probably goes on at EDL rallies. Its their way only and everyone else is bad. I think you had better calm down with some of the stuff you are writing as more and more, the authorities are picking up on extremist hatred views.

  5. Good old fashioned lazy journalism! Cheap to report, fills up “air time”, and any innaccuracies can be thrown at Chuckles, so no threat of libel. Simples! The SFA should clear up this fiasco. It is obvious they are not about to grow a pair, and still allergic to Yorkshire snake oil. But, they don’t have to pick a fight with Compo the clown directly, all they have to do is release a statement of fact. I heard a rumour they were the governing body for football in Scotland, and their word was law. Can anybody confirm if there is any truth in this, or merely an Auld wives tale.

    • Adam

      The SFA have never been able to clear up anything. They are useless and always have been. Quite why people would now expect them to be good, having watched how terrible they have always been, amazes me.

      The SFA dont do “getting it right”

      • I don’t disagree Adam. That is why I raise the issue. If they do not justify their salaries, what is the point in paying them? If they had a pair, these issues would not exist. If they cannot apply the rule THEY have made, and worse, alter them to suit! Then it is time to get rid, and find people who are up to the job. As the structure stands, the bull that flies from Chuckles, lips is their problem to address. They have the facts at their disposal, its a simple task. They are the governing body, It is time to govern, or go!

    • ecojon

      @ barcabuster

      Definitely a fishy tale so perhaps a Fishwives’ Tale 🙂

    • ecojon

      @ barcabuster

      Only thing I would disagree with is that lazy journalism is more of the modern era than old-fashioned.

      The wonders of the internet means you don’t need to type the Press Release but just cut & paste it without even reading it.

      In the old days when it was typed even a drunk journo more or less read it so there wa a glimmer of hope they might spot the bullshit and actually phone and get a counter view and turn the PR bullshit on it head.

      Now the journos are too young to drink, don’t get paid enough to afford to, and don’t have time to phone anyone as there ain’t enough of them so PR companies are laughing all the way to the bank getting unchallenged press releases used which wouldn’t have seen the light of day when we had the old-fahioned ways 🙂

  6. dan

    Chico has clearly studied that other great propagandist Joe Goebbels, who said if you tell a lie often enough people will eventually believe you. Look, imagine you’re Chico. You buy Oldco, and immediately find yourself under attack from Rangers Men like Bomber Broon (can anyone explain that nickname), The Man With No Surname, and others of their ilk. There are even death threats from the knuckle draggers. In desperation, you yourself quickly don the mantle of a Rangers Man, make the most preposterous pronouncements, and suddenly you find the situation is completely reversed. You are a Hero, a Saviour! So what do you do? You think: ‘Fkcu me, they’re buying this stuff. Fair enough, I’ll give them more.’

    And so you squeeze out your bullshit by the yard. The history ended with the failure to get a CVA? OK that’s what you said then, but hey, you can say anything you want now. So the history stays intact. The Big Tax Case? OK it had no bearing whatsoever on Oldco’s administration and liquidation, but you can see how claiming it was pivotal could further ingratiate you with the mob, so you just squat down, grimace, and squeeze out more of that good old bullshit. And so on and so forth; and in the main your ludicrous blah is allowed to go unchallenged by the churnos–with some honourable exceptions, Son of a Preacher Man, and Tom English being two that spring to mind.

    Now, can we really blame Chico for coming out with guff on a regular basis? Why shouldn’t he? It’s what the mob want to hear. It’s bread and circuses. And it could put a lot of money in his pocket.

    If I’m to be honest I’d have to say that if I was Chico, and having discovered I could come out with self-serving blethers that would go unchallenged and help me trouser a goodly sum, I too would do the old squat ‘n’ squeeze and think of that chateau in France.

  7. mick

    ” they become a bigger joke”
    there hounding every1 montrose programme guy is the target this weekend

    “they are the sadest people on earth”
    proven via not admitting wrong downing via financial doping

    “cheating bunch of deluded orcs”
    mention side letters and your in for it sad or what

    “just cant get my head round how daft they are”
    jabbas on there pay roll lol

    “they are a stian on our nation”
    trash every were they go and bully and threaten any1 who does not follow the msm deluding script

    ” they resemble a backwards cult”
    this is proven by if you speak out agianst them you are a hater and wanting to harm there culture what culture its a soccer club

    “they are not what britian stands for”
    wrapping thereselfs in the union flag and avoiding taxes???

    “the 4 nations see them as a joke”
    just go on any forum in wales scotland england and both sides of the irish border and mention them and they will laugh

    “they hold the country back”
    all this tax cheating is harming inward invesment due to a lack of integrity in sport if they cheat at soccer what they like in the boardroom ??

    “they cant intergriate”
    the anti rc policies unwritten but there for all to see

    a could go on and on but a will leave it at that

  8. It makes you wonder if the majority of journalists actually do any research or just rehash what has been covered and interpretated, wrongly, by other members of their trade.

  9. Adam

    Dear goodness 😦

  10. Jamie

    Whilst not agreeing totallally with Mick’s sentiments regarding the Bears support, there are some salient points in his post. The role of the MSM in Scotland has been shocking regarding the coverage…that has pretty much been well established and covered in several previous posts.

    CG continues to spout rubbish and dribble on an almost daily basis unchecked. This fallacy that the old club has been vindicated by the result of the recent tax tribunal is as misleading as it is wrong. It would appear all you have to do to galvinise the old club’s support is go on TV and highlight how wrong everyone else is and perpetuate the myth that it’s a “taig” conspiracy and fuelled by bigotry and hatred.

    Where I think Mick does have a point is in relation to this culture of “Britishness” that surrounds the Old Co & New Co. The “quintesential” British club, wrapped in the Union Jack and singing Rule Britania/GSTQ. It always struck me as strange that the support always tried to out British the English in this department. I think there are very few clubs in England that wrap them selves in their flag (internationals aside) or sign the national anthem with such pride.

    Football has been described as the “Beautiful Game” and brings joy to millions of people. There appears to be little joy emanating from the Ibrox crowd, no songs about players or their exploits, all I hear are songs of defiance and hate…..even the more obtuse ditty’s like the “bouncy bouncy” or “Penny Arcade” have sinister undertones & meanings.

    I’m sure the likes of Cam or Adam can pick holes in this and will refer to pro IRA songs from Celtic park, so before I finish I would qualify this by saying that there is no place…or should be no place for these songs anywhere.

    Going back to the joyful part of my post…the joy went out the game for me the day a young 16yr old boy was murdered on his way to Parkhead. I never knew him or his family but it had a profound effect on me and I never went back to another game after that and I don’t suppose I ever will.

    • Jamie

      I have always wondered why RFC wrap themselves to such an extent in the Union Flag. Re. England I am sure they mainly use the flag of St George. Are RFC trying to say that they are more British than all the rest. Or is it only a reaction to Celtic’s love of the flag of Eire, in which case it is shallow. Why not counter with the Saltire. I will never understand people from the West.

    • ecojon

      @ Jamie

      The schoolboy was actually making his way home from Celtic Park after a game and I know the family and the utter devastation this brutal murder caused.

      He was a lovely boy and had a very bright future in front of him and his life was snuffed-out by the lowest of the low for wearing a Celtic scarf.

      The murderer claimed para-military links to be transferred to NI and early release but the Daily Record exposed the secret deal and the resulting public outcry ensured he did his time here. That’s back when real journos worked in Scotland’s MSM.

  11. Mick

    I fear for you my son. Adam was right above when he said this was hate filled bile. For you to try and justify it is risible. As things stand, and they might change, RFC are not guilty of tax cheating, they merely sailed very close to the wind and up to a point were proved right. Where they may have a real problem is the side letters point. But we should all be careful given that the track record of some on here (including me) is not all that good.

    I am still waiting for someone to offer some comments on some of my earlier comments about selling shares at a discount is it legal or not. Etc. Etc.

    • driverjohn

      Don’t see either how Chico can say no one will own more than 10% of the club. Free markets prevail. How can he stop that. I’d be worried too that the institutional investors will expect a return on their money.

      • ecojon

        @driverjohn

        I noticed another poster correctly saying that no restriction has been placed on share sales so it’s a nonsense to say that no one can own more than 10% – if they buy sufficient shares they can.

        And as we haven’t a clue about the identity of a sigificant percentage of investors or any possible grouping it could already have happened or be underway IMO.

    • @Violet

      “they merely sailed very close to the wind and up to a point were proved right.”

      There you go, shooting your argument down in flames with those 4 little words, “up to a point.”

  12. now michael my old son , if you want an apology for past historical crimes and offences committed by a football club or people who were employed /associated by the said club YOU GO FIRST.

    • G

      carson if you are referring to a certain Mr T he ran a boys club with no official association with celtic and he certainly was not an employee when those terrible things happened. to bring this up however is a simple deflect technique when you have nothing to offer to the debate.

      rangers were not relegated and every time lies are reported it becomes either shocking reporting or a cover up.

      for me there should be investigations into the men in suits who let a club die in order to cheat the crown of much needed revenue.

      • @G

        It’s always struck me as a little odd, not to say disingenuous, that no one, not one person ever mentions the fact that said Mr T was a Rangers supporting Protestant…

        • Clarkeng

          @rabthecab
          Oh dear and there was me just a short while ago giving you the benefit of the doubt.
          Bile and bigotry………. and now lies.
          Oh dear Oh dear Oh dear.
          I am shocked.
          And just a quick clarification on the point made by G – Celtic Boys Club are and always have been affiliated to Celtic Football Club.
          Mr JT supported Celtic all of his life as did his colleague Mr FC who was also implicated in the scandal whch was originally hidden from the authorities by all concerned including the manager and the Directors of the club.
          New topic……same old shit.
          Change the record someone……….pulllllease!!

          • Jamie

            Yeah it is the same old shit and as usual it’s from an unhappy bear, so you have information that no-one else has or had that there was a cover up?….strange that the MSM at the time with their pro rangers stance never suggested or followed up on anything..could it be because there was no story?….Torbett was caught and duly punished….strange this whole paedo conspiracy was never a big issue with your support at the time.

            Maybe Leggat or Graham could do an insightful piece on the benefit of using sexual abuse as a point scoring exercise to deflect away from a defunct football club that screwed the system out of millions of £££’s.

            • Clarkeng

              @jamie
              Dont know what age you are Jamie but this happened in my lifetime and I knew Mr C personally for over thirty years and he was implicated although always denied it.
              Nevertheless it ruined his career in the construction industry and in youth football and he died a lonely old man.
              As for the cover up suggest you google yes google Torbett and read what comes up.
              That is that he sought protection from Kevin Kelly who was on the board at Celtic at the time and who he sat beside in the Directors box at Celtic Park after Jock Stein had kicked his arse and warned him about future conduct towards boys at the club.
              Where does this come from?
              From the victims who released their stories.
              Fergus McCann to his credit was the person who reported the stories from the victims to the police and started the ball rolling in terms of Torbett being prosecuted.
              So the suspicion of a cover up is not unreasonable especially as he was found to have been at it his first involvement with the Boys club and was not prosecuted until some thirty odd years later.
              As a Rangers fan I do not approve of this type of banter and do not feel it worthy of our fans but equally Celtic fans should not lie about it.
              It happened and should be cause for everyone to express regret.

            • Clarkeng

              @jamie
              Oh and if you had read the MSM at the time you would recall that the subject of Alan Brazil and John McSomebody rated front page spreads and huge coverage within the papers.
              This is why Fergus took it upon himself to act.

            • Clarkeng

              @jamie
              Suggest you also raed the statments by James McGrory and Hugh Birt.

  13. abrahamtoast

    I don’t often side with Adam, but I do here, at least in respect of his views of mick and his somewhat puerile, infantile, and largely illiterate contributions.

    Mick may have some salient points, but it’s difficult to pick them out of the dog’s breakfast in which they are presented. Adam can be a troll, as he well knows, and he is nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is, but mick’s nonsense merely brings himself down to a level even below Green.

    We don’t really need to add much to Green’s own words and Jon’s article. We all know the MSM in Scotland is at best negligent, but I think the one thing we can be confident is that, sooner or later, this will all end in tears. Will the bears be as forgiving if the MSM once again fail to send out the warning signals?

    None of the four ex-RFC shareholders I know intend to purchase any shares this time round. While not going as far as openly condemning Green, none of them quite trust him. They somewhat naively, though, still think he must be on the level, as if he wasn’t, surely the MSM would have taken him to task.

    With regards to the SFA, they are still crossing their fingers that something will happen which means they do not need to act, or alternatively makes it safer for them to act. They will either do nothing, or they will wait until Green does/says something so outlandish that even the most rabid bears would concede action is necessary. Ideally, Admin II might come along and take everyone’s mind off it all.

    • ecojon

      @abrahamtoast

      I have commented above re mick & adam and have nothing to add.

      But I keep thinking about the SFA who should have had chico in on ‘charges’ a few times but have done nothing. Are they worried that if they do they’ll get the blame for destroying the flotation and thus finally destroying Rangers or are they just pure & simply frightened of the mob?

      • abrahamtoast

        ecojon,

        I would say it’s a combination of the two you suggest, one of which would no doubt follow the other.

        I’m at a loss as to whether the SFA is actually as hopeless as it appears to be, or if it has taken a self-preserving decision to remain at arms length as much as they possibly can for the reasons ecojon suggests.

        In some ways it makes sense, giving Green enough rope, etc…

      • I don’t think we will ever discover why the SFA are so mute on this subject Abraham. It could be fear of the mob, it could be the blamegame backlash, bums on seats, plain old bias, or Mebbe, just Mebbe,, Chicco knows were the bodies are buried in the tangled spaghetti of oldco,s books. Certaifnly funds have been camouflaged unless you know what to look for! I am sure he is also aware via the Ibrox “whisper system” as to other matters. Far better for now, to sit in the corner with their eyes shut and their hands over their ears giving it the big, “lah lah lah lah lah”. At least until its clear who knows what!

      • gary brown

        I tend to think they have not done anything because they have had their sticky fingers in the liquidated sweetie jar, and now they,re shi**ing themselves,,so they cant shake the jar too hard or it just might crack

    • mick

      largely illiterate contributions mick’s nonsense merely brings himself down to a level even below Green.sticks and stones applied there was nothing other than bile direct at me in that comment as everything you stated we all ready know o well structured of course and with regards to this and that

    • Allfanstogether

      Abrahamtoast,
      With regards to MSM taken anyone to task,they would first of all have to investigate the subject,which I do not think they have a mind to.

  14. ecojon

    @ carson

    You are well aware that Celtic didn’t commit any offence and the two people that did, if I remember correctly, were not employed by the club. I would think that almost any institution which has certain age-groups associated with it will always be vulnerable in this regard.

    This is particularly true in a historical context when the problem, let alone the scale of it, within society as a whole wasn’t recognised and the Savile affair is perhaps a measure of that.

    However, if you truly believe that Celtic was involved in any way then take the information and evidence you have to the police – it is your public duty. But if all you are doing is repeating nonsense or a hate-agenda then all you do is prove what mick is claiming.

    I saw what you wrote about Connecticut and thought I had posibly previously misjudged you – now I wonder if I was actually correct in the first place.

  15. I hope we can agree that the following are self-evident, and if not, then they are self-evident to me..

    1 People who take the time and trouble to comment sensibly should be treated with respect. Their views might be criticised but not the person.

    2 Sweeping generalisations are generally unhelpful.

    3 Demanding apologies from people for the alleged misdeeds of their team is unhelpful. Such an apology would be meaningless, even if offered.

    4 I have said before that “whataboutery” accusations re historic events at a Celtic Boys’ Club are wholly inappropriate in the context of a discussion about, well to be frank, everything apart from that very subject. They are, amongst other things, grossly direpsctful to the victims of thos e specific crimes and of that crime generally.

    5 I am proud that this blog has become known as somewhere were different sides can express views. Don’t change that. That does not mean that “minorities” here deserve special treatment, simply the respect all deserve. If it becomes a place where only Celtic fans post, or the commenters give only what is perceived as the “Celtic” line, we all lose credibility.

    6 Can we have a rest from all of the videos being posted, as Youtube thinks I am embedding too many.

    Thanks

    Paul

  16. redetin

    2 Sweeping generalisations are generally unhelpful.

    Now that is funny! 🙂 🙂 🙂

  17. i never once mentioned any specific incident did i? i only tried to point out that every club during its history may have seen some individuals bring shame on the club and its innocent fans when people are putting the boot into Rangers they would do well to remember that , it was also a couple of individuals that caused Rangers and scottish football the problems but innocent Rangers fans are left to pick up the pieces while they run for cover i am a firm believer in ” people in glass houses”

    • ecojon

      @ carson

      Sadly it was more than a couple of individuals IMHO.

      Going back to Murray there were plenty of Bears raising their concerns and worries about financial mismanagement at the club even asking questions at agms.

      They were basically shouted-down by fans happy with the crazy, totally unsustainable spending which was spreading to other Scottish clubs who were trying to play catch-up and getting into financial bother.

      Non-Ranger fans are often criticised for their obsession with taking Rangers statements and financial matters apart. If any Rangers fan had spent a few hours on Craigie they would have immediately realised he was a spiv without a pot to p*ss in.

      Then where were the directors under Murray & Whyte – they all kept stuum.

      So I’m afraid it’s a bit wider than a couple of people and IMHO there is a culture issue in play which appears to point to follow a Leader right or wrong. I have read all sorts of fan meetings attended by Green and the level of questioning has not only been woeful but usually on totally insignificant areas. Basically nothing about survival of the club but loads of hot air about pie in the sky.

      I really do believe that fans do have a responsibility to call club owners and shareholders to account and I think Rangers’ fans have basically failed in that.

      There’s lots of reasons for that such as the failure of MSM and the PR asault that has been taking place. I have no wish to see Rangers destroyed and beneath the banter and having a laugh at the club’ expense I would hope that would be the position of the majority of football supporters.

      But we now have a situation where Rangers fans are bitter and striking out at anyone perceived to be an enemy of the club. I haven’t a clue where it will all end but do fear for the future because of the effect it could have on Scottish Football.

  18. driverjohn

    “people who made those judgements”.

    Mr Green has consistently peddled unspecific, unattributed statements of this type. Tip toe-ing right next to the line marked defamation. Who indeed is he talking about in this instance?

    Through this whole Rangers meltdown and re-birth there has been a complete absence of statements, comments, quotes from SPL chairmen, SFL chairmen or any governing body official. Example, see Alex Thomson interview Stuart Regan and contemplates Rangers losing EBT FTT. Mr Regan simply refuses to speculate the outcome and more than once, despite many prompts, confirms this stance. So, no apology due here.

    I’d be happy to see any quote (worthy of newsprint) from a person, ANY person, in ANY position of authority on anything to do with Rangers. Even Steven Thomson. The restraint shown has been commendable despite the persistent goading by Mr Green. I suspect the flaming angry inferno at Ibrox needs no petrol added to it and the senior figures in Scottish football see this. Thankfully.

    However, there is one group where Mr Green has a point. Fans. Me. Us. I must confess I have on several occassions soiled myself at the unfolding story of Rangers collapse. I have pished myself laughing too. I suspect I am not the only one and there are others like me. I suspect I am the target of Mr Greens’ bombast. That it is likely to continue for some time yet is of little doubt. Mr Greens modus operandi is to turn a negative into a double negative, such that despite all Rangers self inflicted damage, I am the bad guy. Remarkable and brilliant propaganda. So, what have I to apologise for? Nothing in fact.

    The fact Mr Green has in effect ‘created’ bad guys and bogey men where none exist shows the fantacist he is. The fans of Rangers have bought in hook line and sinker. Worryingly, Walter Smith who I considered a moderate bought into this as well. Where Rangers should have seen a Pheonix rise from the flames, and monster has throttled the Pheonix and stamped it into the ground. I’m worried about where Rangers are now but I worry more for the next owner who will have to deal with all the fabricated caustic mess he inherits.

  19. mick

    good evening every1 a would like to say sorry if a upset any1 today but the above comments are my thoughts on it all and my views are in line with most people in the country so a feel a have been unfairly criticised but that is fine as am not in to gold stars (5)punt intended we all have our own views and thoughts on it all a was just sharing mine with yous all rather than just spit the dummy people should explian why they think am wrong also as paul has stated youtube are on to him am sorry but am stopping the vids as a dont want to make the site liabile also 1 of our commentors from the past year has done a article that am sure she would not mind me sharing with yous
    http://angelahaggerty.com/why-the-word-sevco-matters/

    • cam

      I think due to the fact that your post was first up Mick then that became the main topic rather than the original post.
      Don’t take this the wrong way but i think you are slagging off the msm but are guilty of believing everything you read on the Celtic sites.
      A couple of years ago i worked with a fanatical Celtic man who came into work and started using strange words for him,,hubris,disingenuous,and schadenfreude.
      I thought they were new signings as i knew nowt of the internet bampot sites back then,but its all making sense now.
      The msm couldn’t, more than wouldn’t,print some of the internet stuff due to libel laws and even Paul chose to remove some posts due to lawyers having a wee chat.
      I totally agree that the msm,mostly the sports journalists, haven’t been up to speed on the events of the last few years and yes there may well be some journos who had no inclination to print negative news about the Gers, but i don’t believe much of what is printed in the tabloids.
      The Craig Whyte specimen i was suspicious of from the start and when his imaginary signing targets fell through i knew he was a train crasher.I never realised how devious a person he was though.
      The flag politics and “stain on the nation” stuff i can read on another site from a person i wouldn’t waste my few remaining brain cells on.

      • portpower

        From your man Chiko.
        Green said that he intends to make money personally out of his involvement in Rangers, by settling its current debts with creditors, then getting “finance into the club” and ultimately floating the club on an “appropriate” stock exchange.

        “There is a percentage of the newly enlarged company that will come to me once it is done,” he said.
        29th may 2012. Suspicious?

    • Allfanstogether

      Mick,
      We are all Angela Haggerty, or should be.

  20. Davo

    Unless, unknown to me, they do so behind the scenes, I wonder why the SPL, SFL, SFA, etc do not strongly remind the media outlets of the facts EVERY TIME this fabricated version of reality is reported. Maybe then they would start to get it right, a la Montrose FC programme.

    • Davo, a straight forward, “for the avoidance of doubt” , open letter to the red tops, and a statement on BBC/stv news should do it. Unfortunately, so many rules have been broken, backward bending, mis-information, contradictions, false predictions, and downright lying have come from these bodies, that they don’t have a grasp of the situation themselves.. Any statement they released would be torn apart by all and sundry, due to the many conflicts to their own rules, both in interpretation and applications. There have now been more grey areas than a certain naughty book, allowed to develop. Whatever they say now, will be pounced on, because it will be in contradict some other decision they have conjured up along the way. It’s as clear as my granny,s tottie soup! Although that was delicious, and never left a sour taste.

    • ecojon

      @ Davo

      What is worth remembering is that we can never be sure what version of reality suits the SPL, SFL, SFA at any given time.

      I do believe they have shown cowardice in dealing with chico for whatever reason but they have a problem in making some statements because they can only make a statement based on their rule books and this means that the reality of new club – old club can alter.

      Personally I see the old club – new club argument as a bit sterile and would rather approach it as: Decide whether you are a new club with a new future and no past or Decide whether you are an old club with a history which you are responsible for.

      This of course used to be chico’s position when he was adamant that if the CVA failed then all was lost and Rangers would lose its history.

      He has changed his position, I think, to Rangers being a continuing club with a history but rejects the definition reached by the SPL Commission which states that even a new club under their rules keeps its history.

      This announcement was originally celebrated by Rangers fans until some contrary bloggers pointed out that it meant sanctions could be applied such as title stripping although I have always felt a hefty financial fine, to be distributed to disadvantaged clubs, would be a more appropriate penalty if Rangers were found ‘guilty’ – especially as it is such a cash-rich club.

      Personally I would hope that Celtic refused any award of tainted titles.

  21. your views are in line with most people in this country ? have you asked 4-5 million people their opinion ?

  22. Another The Rangers hating thread courtesy of Mr McConville’s blog, whatever happened to class, thing is you have to be born with it you can’t buy it, as Mr McConville’s board crawling selik hordes are the ultimate definition of, they certainly don’t have and couldn’t buy it with any amount of money.

    54 and counting…………..lol

    After being cooked in the spammer………ah for the days of Perry Mason and Stella, those legs Stella all the way to paradise…lol

    • driverjohn

      Hi Alex,

      Hope you don’t mean me in your ‘Selik hordes list. Been to Celtic Park once to see Celtic v New Zealand national team around 25 years ago. Lost count of my trips to Ibrox. I would genuinely be interested in seeing a pro Rangers perspective of the points I made about quotes, comments and statements.

      If I’m a Rangers hater then so is your great 9 in a row captain Richard Gough. It is very tedious you know being tarred a Rangers hater for expressing a perfectly valid and factual account of all things Rangers.

    • @alex

      Any chance you could, just for a change, post something that actually adds to the debate, instead of the usual bile & pish?

    • Allfanstogether

      Alex ( thekublakhan )
      CLASS ? Is this class when old rangers have shredded all their debt to their creditors like a military operation ( which they seem so fond of ) which was the plan from the offset, all without one sorry word, they should have stayed in the SPL with a proviso they would pay back every penny they owed over a number of years with penalty’s applied, this would have shackled them for sometime, then the side letters could have been dealt with as they should be, as it stands they will wriggle out of it all with a little help from their friends.

  23. Davo, a straight forward, “for the avoidance of doubt” , open letter to the red tops, and a statement on BBC/stv news should do it. Unfortunately, so many rules have been broken, backward bending, mis-information, contradictions, false predictions, and downright lying have come from these bodies, that they don’t have a grasp of the situation themselves.. Any statement they released would be torn apart by all and sundry, due to the many conflicts to their own rules, both in interpretation and applications. There have now been more grey areas than a certain naughty book, allowed to develop. Whatever they say now, will be pounced on, because it will be in contradict some other decision they have conjured up along the way. It’s as clear as my granny,s tottie soup! Although that was delicious, and never left a sour taste.

    • ecojon

      @ barcabuster

      Another thing that has to be remembered is that the Rangers story is a very complex story involving a wide-range of disciplines and professions and even a good journo would have difficulties keeping up to speed.

      Also the journo would be working on quite a few other stories because of staff cutbacks so the the temptation just to cut and paste the Press Release is overwhelming. It also means your story will be the same as everyone else which means you won’t get flak for missing anything.

      I do not offer this as an excuse but merely an observation of the reality which currently exists and which is getting worse by the day.

      • A very complex state of affairs indeed ecojon. A state which it has evolved into. If the SFA had simply followed their own rulings, then everything would be black and white with regard to the football side of things. The corporate side of things, though incredibly involved, for the best part, was/is not their concern. They should have dealt with the matter fearless of Armageddon or whatever else. Now they are between a rock and a hard place, because no matter what follows, they have made a monumental of what SHOULD have taken place.

  24. COYBIG

    qwwwh4567u5i6tredfsssssgbhjty6ui786765trhg erhyr65et4w Sorry, just had to wipe the drool off my keyboard there.

    • mick

      @coybig we have not to post from youtube as ave over done it with them in past posts although thats a great vid shes well nice and presentable ,a think paul has been contacted by youtube see post above by paul lol a bet your stunned me telling any1 of about vids lol

    • cam

      A fellow drooler!!!!,,,posting that is worthy of a red card

  25. lord mac

    THERE NOW LOOKS AS IF THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT from the Rangers retail limited from the 13 December
    http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/rangers-retail/?x=yjjw7r8

  26. jgg

    The SPL say that despite Celtic having one player with an EBT the club didnt break any rules because the nature of it didnt break the strict control on players contracts which the old Rangers allegedly broke if the players where found to have dual contracts,its nothing to do with EBTs.Its a case of Charles Green trying to bully and harrass the authorities into allowing the old Rangers to escape punishment.Theat man has not been put in his place hes arroant andjudging by his past dealings at Sheffield wholly untrustworthy, the SPL need to sanction him personally to a point where hes forced to show our game respect.His club are not Rangers,the authorities in trying to appease the myth are actually giving Green cannon fodder hes using to shoot them down.

  27. Great post Jon, many thanks.

    I haven’t commented for a while, because the comments are becoming depressing to read. They are becoming too often reduced to arguments that, while some are probably real and possibly even worthy, have none the less absolutely feck all to to with what has been posted in the first place (or maybe, as some would have it, ‘well done you trolling agents for steering the patter in your direction’).

    Meanwhile, as you are all sniggering and sniping at each other, Mr Charles Green continues to get away with utter contempt for both the facts and the intelligence of the average Scot, all the while being more or less completely let off the hook by being described as some sort of ‘snake-oil salesman’ or ‘character’ by people on here who should really know better. This is on the back of the Ibrox regime calling on their fans to NOT support their chosen team at a certain ground because the regime JUST DON’T LIKE their opponents (the reasons given being so childish and against the rules of grown-up sport that they must fall under this schoolyard description). And that’s just one of many outrages against sport committed by the Ibrox regime since the summer.

    The ‘Internet Bampots’ have done football and the wider society a massive service in showing up the humbug and hubris of those in power – a job that we all agree should have been done by the mainstream media. However, I do think blogs can only do so much: RTC worked because it stuck to strict journalistic rules, while valid points such as Jon’s can only have effect if the GENERAL PUBLIC are told about them.

    To me, as long as the whole (and continuing) Ibrox shambles is dissected and discussed on blogs such as these, with comments covering such old ground to the extent that they almost write themselves, people like Charles Green will always get away with their guff. You may not admit it here, but all comment is superfluous until the matter is covered properly and dispassionately by serious journalists on media outlets that talk to the whole of the UK and beyond – in other words we NEED the mainstream media (by the way, i can’t help notice all you people who say you don’t read newspapers seem to be happy to quote from them often enough – maybe you just mean that you read them online like the rest of us).

    In the meantime, in as much as blogs such as this serve a real purpose (and they do), please continue to have relevant and justifiable posts such as Jon’s above. It is breathtaking that Charles Green should be able to say what he did (and this is not the only instance) – even more so that the arguments in comments here should almost allow him to continue in this vein, by talking utter p!sh to each other over biased views of who did what and when, rather than properly taking this dangerous idiot to task.

    • cam

      Good to see you realise that the guff spouted in here doesn’t matter a jot.
      Similarly the guff spouted in RTC didn’t affect anything except the credibility of the anonymous sweetie wife who should have finished shredding by now?
      Charles Green or Blue as all us loyal bears will now call him,is really winding up some of the Gers haters and i don’t think the above post was up to much.
      A perpetual myth allowed to prosper and become dangerous?,,refereeing conspiracies against Celtic! How does that sound?
      As for Mr Blue being a dangerous idiot,i think you are losing the plot and taking the wee tribal mud slinging a bit seriously.
      As Charlie sips on a wee refeshment in the south of France in the next year or so and you are still trying to change the world on a laptop,then you might want to reconsider who the idiot is!

      • Thanks for proving my point. RTC was not wrong and you are deluded. Keep convincing yourself that all is right with the world – Green’s lying.

      • Jon

        I agree with Kevin – the general level of reasoned debate on this site is deteriorating but the best thing to do is simply ignore the nonsense. And what is a Gers hater? Is it merely anyone who is critical of Rangers past or present? This post was not written by a Rangers hater – merely a law abiding tax paying citizen. In addition to my taxes I also pay my household bills as they become due. Such actions of basic decency and responsibility entitle one to be critical of Rangers FC past and present but I am no hater, I actually feel sorry for them and their fans, particularly as they had an opportunity to rid themselves of the negative aspects of the ‘follow follow, we are the people’ sub-culture but elected to do all in their power to cling on to a most illustrious past that is often regarded as being a social cancer. Tragic really.

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