It’s Not Every Day One Is Accused of Being One Step Away From Being A Book Burner!

Firstly, many apologies for my absence over the last couple of days. Real life things like work can get in the way of poring over the FTT decision in minute detail (yes, that is still to come) or the Share Prospectus (and that is still to come too).

Instead, I was transported back to my school days on catching up with the last 400 comments. I take you back to my first year English class. Our teacher is called out of the class, but before leaving, she announces that the room must stay quiet, and we must continue on quietly with our interpretation passage. It was something, I recall, about a hawk dipping its claw into a pool and being confused by seeing its reflection – probably Ted Hughes…

(And when did “interpretation” become known as “close reading”? I digress.)

Our teacher made it clear that anyone who spoke during her absence would be belted on her return (ah, the Lochgelly tawse was still very much in vogue).  

As a further aside, I have a clear recollection, although maybe warped with the passage of time, of having a music teacher whose method of inculcating us with the wonder and joy of music was as follows.

  • Hand out lyric sheet for song.
  • Play song through once on piano, whilst NOT singing it.
  • Play song again.
  • Stop as playing the song and pick a pupil to tell the class what word in the song lyrics had been reached.
  • If answer incorrect, belt child for not paying attention.

Tawse

The flaw in the plan was that, if you had never heard the song and were not musical enough to pick up the tempo, then you were doomed. On one memorable occasion we were handed the words to “Where Is Love?” from “Oliver”. Whilst, even at that age, I had watched the start of “Oliver” on TV many times, I had never made it very far – musicals being fundamentally silly and not worthy of attention, especially when I had a cricket book to read. I therefore ha never knowingly heard the song.

To readers who have been spared that privilege too, it goes something like this:-

“Wheeeeeeeerrreeeeeeee is loooooooooove; dooooooeeeeesssss it faaaaaaallllllll frooommmmmm skiessssssssss abooooooove….” Etc.

It is a slow piece, as you might gather.

LEster

However, not having heard it sung, I thought that the words were sung far faster. Therefore, by the time the teacher stopped to ask what word he was at, I was in the middle of the third verse. When the girl who had been asked told the teacher that the words, correctly, was “above” I panicked. Frantically I hunted for the word. How on earth I thought, could we only be on the second line?

For what seemed like half an hour we made our way through that hateful dirge. I never managed to work out were we were in it at all, and was only picked to answer just as the bell rang, meaning I was, quite literally saved by it.

To give the teacher his credit, I now know that bloody song to the very last note!

Anyway, back to the English class…

As I tell this, I am reminded of a famous raconteur whose picture will be below (if I can find it)…

Corbett

“As my producer was telling me just the other day…”

Can you guess what happened as soon as the door closed behind the English teacher? All but two people in the class got up, walked round, engaged in lively conversation across the room or generally acted in a manner inconsistent with “getting on with work quietly.”

After a few minutes the teacher returned. She was not pleased.

She therefore asked everyone who had been talking to line up to be belted.

I was quite happy that I had not been talking, so I kept my head down and tried to answer a question about the writer’s clever use of alliteration, or something similar.

I noticed that a couple of the class heavies were queuing up for punishment either side of my desk. They politely suggested that I should go out to be belted too, otherwise they would inflict a more severe, and clearly less civilised punishment on me after class.

What to do?

A quick cost/benefit analysis took place. We had a lady teacher who, by the time she would reach me at the end of the line, would have applied twenty none blows with the belt. Alternatively, I could take my chances with at least two hardy souls who would not be fatigued from inflicting indiscriminate punishment.

The choice was easy. I stood up for the belt.

Anyway, I feel rather like the teacher did on entering the classroom to see her strictures had been ignored. However I am not in position to punish anyone, except maybe by insisting that everyone talks sense for a day! J

But, on going through the comments, it was as if the teacher had returned to the room to find someone had scrawled a comment about them being a tyrant on the blackboard.

One comment which was posted on the blog today reads as follows:-

“Selective moderation and censorship is one step away from the book burners.” It was clearly directed at me. I laughed.

Despite what some people believe, I do not run this blog from a secret lair where, financed by Peter Lawwell, I have minions or Oompa-Loompas to deal with my every command. Instead, I need personally to moderate comments held for that, and to check spam in case a commenter’s pearls of wisdom end up there in error.

Sometimes there is not a chance to check on moderated posts till a break in the day occurs. Today that was as I walked along to buy myself a cup of goulash soup for lunch (which I can highly recommend).

I saw a few posts for moderation, including four from the same poster, one of which was the one quoted above. I laughed.

As I have said before, and as remains my position, I want people to comment. I have a very liberal policy when it comes to posts and commenters. I have still never banned a poster. Three have had posts put automatically into moderation. That has been, in each case, a reaction by me to what was being posted, and a decision that they were going too far.

One of the three did not return; one did, having been taken by surprise, as they said, that I had actually to read all the comments; and the third is still there.

Whilst it might be correct to accuse me of “selective moderation” as indeed I select who is to be moderated, I felt that an accusation of “censorship” was laughable. I know that, as a contrast, Mr McMurdo’s blog makes it clear that:-

“Only supportive comments will be approved. This is not because I cannot take criticism but because those who disagree with me abused the privilege allowed them here of saying so. As a result, only positive comments will be published.“

I have no problem with Mr McMurdo setting those rules for his own blog and please don’t take it as criticism of him from me.

However, I looked at my own stats for this blog.

There have been 26,319 comments posted to my blog (excluding 87,000 pre-emptively caught by the spam filter).

Of that number 25,938 have been posted on the blog.

Therefore in nearly 18 months 381 comments have been rejected. But of them a large number will be because they were spam which slipped through the net.

So, if I am to be accused of censorship for allowing 98.55% of comments through, then I am guilty of censorship!

However, to equate that to book burning…

I think that almost managed to invoke Godwin’s Law!

Book burning, and campaigns to stop books being sold, are a long way from deleting 1.45% of a blog’s comments, I might suggest!

So, I will not be ordering that people be belted, nor will a punishment exercise be imposed. However, if we degenerate into a rabble again, then I will really be angry, and you won’t like me when I’m angry…

Hulk

 

Posted by Paul McConville

 

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155 Comments

Filed under Blogging, House Rules, Personal

155 responses to “It’s Not Every Day One Is Accused of Being One Step Away From Being A Book Burner!

  1. carl 31

    We have become more likely to show Godwins Law since a few weeks ago. It seems to have coincided with the surprising FTTT decision.

  2. cam

    Dammit,just when i thought i had discovered Paul’s batcave after following a wee orange skinned guy for two hours.Those tanning salons should be outlawed.
    Having been the extremist who became a moderate after realising that a human being and not a filtering system had to plough through my madness,i have now been entrusted to not cross the line.
    I shall, like Johnny Cash, walk it instead.
    What a great idea,bring back the belt!

  3. carl 31

    This is interesting :
    A supporters trust is seeking to have sale of a club forced by the courts. If they lose tha case, Liquidation seems very likely.
    Why would that be if, the ‘club’ continues through such liquidation?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20665933

    • Budweiser

      carl 31
      On a quick read through it seems that the issue concerns the football ground-Fratton Park- as the sale of the ‘club’ hinges on the ownership of it.

  4. cam

    Is that a picture of the Hulk or Fraser Foster? If its Eco then i wish to apologise profusely for upsetting the guy and state that green is my favourite colour.

  5. iain

    The first paragraph of this most recent blog is most illuminating

    “Firstly, many apologies for my absence over the last couple of days. Real life things like work can get in the way of poring over the FTT decision in minute detail (yes, that is still to come) or the Share Prospectus (and that is still to come too).”

    Not one but two casual references to Rangers issue’s without the actual requirement to describe them as Rangers issue’s or story’s.

    It goes without saying of curse that they are Rangers issue’s, this is after all a one topic blog now and all pretence that it’s a “Scots law” blog are long gone.

    Its nice to see the pretence removed though (even if it was most certainly not a concious decision)

    • Iain,

      First Tier Tribunal = Law

      Share Prospectus = Legal

      SPFA Employment Tribunal Application = Law

      Appointment of Directors and Notification to Companies House = Legal

      Football Regulatory Matters such as the Nimmo Smith Tribunal = Legal

      Advantages of Playing the Overlapping wing backs, with central striker dropping back into the hole = Not Law (so unlikely I will write about it)

      Will I go on?

      You will find, if you look, that almost every post about Rangers refers to the law.

      It is by far the most interesting and legally diverse news story in Scotland over the last couple of years.

      I did write about Hearts’ share sale too, if you look back.

      And if it was a blog all about Rangers, why should I not write about it. Is it a requirement that only supporters of a team can write about it? And do you object to the newspapers covering your team as much as they do?

      I am being obtuse, I am sure, but I do not get your point.

      Paul

  6. Oscar Wilde opined,
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they’ll kill you.”

    I see you laughed.

    “I saw a few posts for moderation, including four from the same poster, one of which was the one quoted above. I laughed”.

  7. JohnBhoy

    That accusatory post raising the spectre of book-burning, with the obvious allusion to Nazi Germany and the ceremonial burning of books deemed to be Un-German, was ignorant and ill-advised. The fact is that moderation in life is to be lauded. Besides, whereas it is often suggested that everyone has a book in them, in the case of posts that is where many of them they should remain.

    • ecojon

      @ JohnBhoy

      I have the feeling that if I didn’t post I would be accused of being anal retentive instead of the usual salutation of: ‘Yir tocking sh*te’ 🙂

    • COYBIG

      @JohnBhoy

      Everyone’s got a book in them? Correct. It looks like even a Pish Stained Alky can seemingly write a book. Although it seems not everyone can think up a name for a book that correlates with it’s content.

      Take the aforementioned PSA for instance, (if you don’t know who i’m talking about then count yourself lucky, as anyone who trys to make any sense of the shite he spouts, losses brain cells hand over fist attempting a lost cause) he is currently trying to plug a book. If you read it’s title, you would think it’s a book about someone called Scott Symon. But you would be wrong. The majority of his book’s content is about the great Jock Stein. But not in a respectful manner, praising or even just accepting Stein’s unsurpassable achievements in Football. No, the man who writing makes you wonder if it’s still just the one bottle of Toilet Duck a day he’s drinking, praises Symon by trying to discredit Stein.

      Now if you feel i’m being aint The Rangers here, i’m not. When a big The Rangers fan like Andy Gray, after realising that all the PSA wanted to do was try and discredit Stein, pulled the interview from his TalkSPORT radio show. I think that shows any confused The Rangers fan in what way any of the shite the PSA writes, should be thought of.

      It’s funny tho how one wee action can chance a person’s mind about someone and something, ain’t it? In the days leading up to his big nation wide interview, whilst lying on his back, swimming in pish on the toilet floor of his local pub, the PSA was metaphorically on his knees, kissing Gray’s, Richard Keys’ and TalkSPORT’s arses. Skip to the day after his interview was pulled, he’s still on his back, swimming in the pish on the toilet floor of his local, but he’s no longer in praise of Gray, Keys or TalkSPORT. Quite the opposite infact.

      Now, i’m sure that all fair-minded The Rangers fans are willing to conceed that his futile attempt to try and discredit Jock Stein is wrong and should be treated with the contempt that it deserves. Or am I wrong?

  8. JimBhoy

    OK let me kick off with a suggestion based on a story from yesterday… Posted by Adam: Petrie at Hibs says they will make a loss again this season if the fans don’t help out and get to more games or words to that effect..

    As most football teams survive on debt I would suggest Petrie was effectively following suit with the Jambos recent appeal to their fans and the success that cry for help had.. As I replied to Adam yesterday who posted the link this is nothing to do with Rangers not adding a couple of £100k to the Hibs coffers in 2 visits to Easter road and actually having rangers NOT in the SPL, it could be argued, will allow the Hibs of this world more success and the benefits therein… So in summary IMO Petrie being clever here… I recall Dermot Desmond doing similar just after MON’s run to the Uefa cup final and suggesting if they hadn’t had that success they would have sold a star player and that there were still some seats left to be taken up at Celtic park.. Is it right to play on the fears and loyalties of football fans OR should clubs be run more within their means, jeez that is the question…

    • Adam

      I sometimes think people miss the bigger picture with this point. Everyone on here lives in a bubble that is the internet which may only make up something like 25% of the regulars at each football team. What you dont see is that there are plenty of the silent majority who when you speak to them on a reasonable level actually wanted Rangers in the league. And that includes many, and i mean MANY Celic fans of a certain age and certain vintage.

      I know of at least 16 seasonal hospitality packages, at both clubs, that were not renewed because simply, they were bought season after season to take the big customers from down south to Old Firm games. To guarantee these seats we were willing to pay £75k per annum to both clubs to be guaranteed the very best of attention when we rolled the big customers up.

      Thats just the ones i know and im sure there are more that i dont know about.

      Then you think about the smaller clubs who sell all their sponsorship and advertising on the fact that at least 4 times a season, their products are seen by 100,000 + Old Firm supporters who watch the games of both teams, now those viewing figures are down by a potential 66%(figures still to be clarified).

      These are all the unseen knocks on income so its not just as simple as saying those 2 visits will make them £100k or so.

  9. Littlerabbits

    Thanks Much for today’s post Paul – it gave me a wee chuckle. I had the close reading/interpretation conversation with my nephew only a day ago. Needless to say he looked totally blank when I mentioned SRA cards. I must admit I’ve been pretty much ignoring the comments recently as all the tit-for-tat squabbling is a bit hard to wade through. Here’s hoping things improve shortly.

  10. George Murray

    Iain

    Thank goodness someone is even considering these issues in some detail. Were it left to the Scottish Media then the truth might never come to the surface. Surely there must be some sensible followers of what was RFC who can see through the smokescreen of bluster and threat coming from Ibrox in these times. Any sensible fan would want to get at the truth. Chas Green is a snake oil salesman of the first order and I am surprised at how compliant you all are.

    • cam

      It all depends on which version of the truth you wish to believe.
      If RFC took most folk in here’s advice then they might as well just roll over and accept the blame for every evil that they are accused of.
      If someone fights RFC’s corner then they are threatening civil order?
      Put your average CFC fan in a room train a camera on his eye,mention atrocities,political scandals,global warming and the X factor,,,then say Rangers!,,,look at that pupil dilate.

  11. JimBhoy

    Leggo hits a new all time low today, effectively in the interests of selling his book. Not accepting comments on his blog and compelled to put some crud out every day he now often resorts to touting his wares and making the most ludicrous and offensive remarks, I dunno how he gets away with it.

  12. Maggie

    @Paul
    For goodness sake,how many times do they have to be
    “telt” Paul. This is not a site for ill considered language and
    disrespectful tone,yet still it persists.

    It’s perfectly acceptable to disagree with someone’s
    point of view by replying in a reasoned,civilised,polite
    manner,if it can be made amusing so much the better.
    I saw the book burning comment and was enraged,but
    as the poster is someone I decline to reply to,as it only
    leads to more of the same insulting retorts,I did some
    stomping around ranting about the disgraceful,deliberate
    attempts to provoke another “stooshie”. Any
    agent provocateur SHOULD be put into moderation
    IMHO as they not only disrupt the informative and fun
    aspects of the blog,but have given you cause, twice
    now,to ask them nicely to behave.

    And another thing Paul,I’m sick of some people telling
    others what they can or cannot say in their posts,for
    going off topic as they deem it.Some of the best debate and
    wittiest banter has been off topic.I for one love it when someone
    makes reference to films,literature,poetry and music
    which are my interests* and enjoy posting a few words
    in reply.The main reason that I love this blog is that the
    debate is so diverse.When I do not know enough or indeed
    anything about insolvency,tax,share issues etc I read and learn.
    It would behove others to do likewise.

    Re subject of music teachers ….. what is ( was ) their problem?
    Everyone I know was taught music by the famous method
    of belting anyone who wasn’t musically inclined,I think it was
    Schoenberg who proved the efficacy of this method 🙂 and look
    where that atonality got us. Oops going off topic,into
    moderation for me Paul.
    *Also fashion. Anyone anything to say about Karl Lagerfeld
    holding the Chanel métiers des arts fashion show at
    Linlithgow Palace? Come on guys you know you want to
    and it would enrage the trolls for going off topic 🙂

    • JohnBhoy

      I had a music teacher who once belted me BECAUSE I was singing! Understandable, I suppose.

      • Maggie

        @JohnBhoy
        That was a common occurrence at my school JB
        The tone deaf were encouraged to “goldfish”…..
        move their lips but make no sound 🙂

        • JimBhoy

          @Maggie/JB/Paul

          My eldest lass did her 4th yr music exam couple of months back (i know them as o levels), They have to sing, record and compose their own music using the latest technology as well as isolating various different singing styles and some group projects.. I couldn’t believe it when her music teacher was explaining it to me… Far distant to the ‘carry on’ hour we had in music a few years back. We used to wait til the music teacher turned her back before having a Les Dawson-esque go on the piano.. Actually just remembered the teacher didnt know the pupils that well so when she did turn away we did a en mass seat swap… Poor lass…

          • JohnBhoy

            JimBhoy you should be rightly proud of your daughter. As someone who is non-musical I hold those who are in high esteem.

          • Maggie

            @JimBhoy
            Changed days indeed,Jim,and the better for it.
            In my own case it was the teacher who played like
            Les Dawson,but I persisted and finally got into the
            good music teacher’s class for my “O” levels.:-)
            Well done to your girl,if I’d had do all that then
            no music O level would have appeared on my certificate.

        • JohnBhoy

          Maggie, you mean like those who support The Rangers.

      • Jono

        And I was kicked out of the school band for practicing in the music room when i shouldn’t have…I see a theme here….strange

    • ecojon

      @ Maggie

      I thought the Linlithgow Palace gig was great news for Scotland and shows what we have to offer and what we can do when we put our mind to it.

      As to singing – the only teacher who could control me was my music teacher who, when I was acting-up, would cast a beady eye in my direction as I disappeared under the desk taking my unbroken voice with me.

      However a my baritone developed her power waned 🙂

      But by then I had seen the light and was hooked on studying.

      • Maggie

        @ecojon
        See,I knew everyone was dying to extend the blog into
        other areas and start discussing fashion.
        All part of my cunning plan to disuade the styleless,
        ie the trolls, from posting.You can thank me later 🙂

  13. JimBhoy

    http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/celtic-punish-stokes-for-attending-ira-function-0031544-1
    Stokes should have been booted out for this. Celtic do not need this baggage.

    • lordmac

      and why would that be, and when did Celtic take up the role of dictatorship, there are footballer journalists, and lawyers all known to have sympathetic views about paramilitary activity yet complaints only seem to come from one side of the community i also find it hard
      when the police cant find enough evidence against a referee for comments made yet have no problem when minor things said are front page issues, hope you can see the diferance complaints make.

      • JimBhoy

        @Lordmac I cannot speculate about journos, lawyers etc but Playing for Celtic is not just a job. You are in the public eye 24/7, you are a role model to many and you have a duty to project the right public image of the club. This is my opinion only and it looks like Lennon has a similar opinion. Celtic have tried hard over the years to lose a lot of the negative image and this gives ammunition to some. It doesn’t take much to get the journos salivating over ANY Bad PR at Celtic and I hate giving them these easy pick ups.

        I would be surprised if Stokes plays again for Celtic, I think he may see out the next few months struggling to get into the first team and may be looking for a new club at the end of the season. Again just my opinion.

        • lordmac

          but if you want to run away from this issue you will always run away,
          Celtic also has a duty to protect its players i also think, the days of tipping the hat to the master is over I keep hearing about freedom of choice
          human rites, buts who’s rights. there where people lining up to get there photos with aidie amein here, and where all loving it when he was getting addressed as the king of Scotland, when really the big issue is this, war criminal’s and why are they still allowed anonymity from the press.

      • Adam

        The problem is that whilst you believe that complaints only come from one side, Billy, on that side believes the same though in reverse to you. You will cite 2 examples. He will cite 2 examples. Its the same with referees. And police. And the SFA. And the SPL. And the BBC. And generally, everything.

        I think i have said before, either:

        1) You are wrong and he is right
        2) You are right and he is wrong
        3) You are both wrong.

        I know which one i think it is.

      • ecojon

        @ lordmac

        At the end of the day no player or fan group is greater than the club and Celtic is about playing football so I also am very wary about organised and motivated groups trawling for recruits and support using the club for their own particular ends.

        I’m not attacking anyone’s right to protest and take political positions but I do believe that the firt duty of a supporter in and around any stadium, where Celtic are playing, is to the club.

        Similarly, Celtic players have a heavy reponsibility to be very careful that what they do can’t be used against the club. Stokes has made a mistake and he has been dealt with and he and the club move on. He will have been told, in no uncertain terms, that a similar error of judgement will lead to the parting of the ways.

        There are also sorts of alleged injustices and perceived injustices done to Celtic – including some actual injustices – but that doesn’t excuse any poor behaviour or slippage in our standards IMHO.

        Some good players can’t come to term with the Glasgow goldfish bowl and some can’t or aren’t prepared to put the club first. I have no problem with that choice but the club also has a choice and it will be the release of the player concerned.

        We can never allow our standards to be relaxed.

        • John C

          What I’m struggling with here is that no one has yet confirmed what he is guilty of, it’s all rumour and supposition from what I’ve been reading. The media are trying to tell us it was a fund raising event to in support of terrorism, other press are telling us it was a memorial service only, the opposite end of the spectrum saying they were raising funds to cover tha cost of the funeral, I reckon it all depends on your perspective, if your a Scottish hack then it’s obviously going to be the worst case scenario and you might as well throw in a threat or too as well, maybe get broadfoot to claim half a dozen refs and their families have been threatened eh
          They had been friends for a long time, he went to the funeral then the memorial service that’s it, everything else is speculation and typically negative spin designed to make Stokes the next target for the violent hoards which will perpetuate the victimisation and keep the papers selling whilst satisfying the bloodlust displayed by the press during their vilification of Lenny. I mean come on people it’s no Machiavelli is it, it’s the Scottish hacks.
          Adam told me earlier it was originally reported by the sun, enough said IMO.

          • Adam

            Just to be clear. He didnt go to the funeral at all. It was a fundraiser he went to.

            And it was The Irish Sun that broke the news though it was covered in the Irish Independent as well.

            • John C

              Adam,
              Just to be clear he went to both and neither were fundraiser s
              Both publications you mention are less than reliable

            • Adam

              Just to be clear. He wasnt at the funeral. The funeral was 3 months ago and Stokes was up in Scotland at the time. As for the publications been less than reliable, im not sure what you are getting at. Are you saying they got it wrong and Lenny didnt need to say anything ?

            • John C

              I am saying they both push an anti Celtic agenda, when the daily mail refer to it as a “memorial event” I am inclined to believe them, simply because they are usually the first to scream terrorist. If there was any hint of fundraising to support terrorism they would not have hesitated to make that clear.
              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2246766/Neil-Lennon-warns-Anthony-Stokes-future-conduct-pictured-Real-IRA-event.html
              The fact they call it a Real IRA event is as close as they want go with it, in their opinion it was a benefit memorial for the deceased.
              Very un Daily Mail I’m sure you will agree.
              Did they actually do their homework ?

    • Gortnamona

      Robert Thomas William McCrea (born 6 August 1948) is a politician from Northern Ireland, Free Presbyterian minister and a member of the Democratic Unionist Party.

      ” He was a member of the Shankill Defence Association and in 1971 he was convicted of riotous behaviour in Dungiven. In 1975 he led a prayer service at the paramilitary funerals of Wesley Somerville and Harris Boyle. The two men were part of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) gang that had carried out the Miami Showband killings and were accidentally blown up when the bomb they had planted in the band’s minibus went off prematurely, killing them instantly.”
      Wikipedia

      I post the above, not in any way to condemn, but as an illustration of the complexity of living in Ireland over the last 50 years.

      I have attended many funerals, including those of Hunger Strikers and consider my motives personal and private.

      Please don’t be so quick to condemn Anthony Stokes.

  14. JohnBhoy

    BEYOND FREEDOM OF SPEECH: FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION

    @Adam

    You stated earlier:

    “If i found out that one of my staff attended a fund raiser for a known terrorist or terrorist organisation, then i would find a way to get rid of them.”

    A contract of employment consists of two main elements: explicit and implied terms and conditions. Explicit terms and conditions include such things as job title, salary and redundancy pay; implied terms are so obvious they do not require to be put in writing, such as trust and duty of care towards fellow employees. Employees are trusted that their outside activities will not bring the reputation of their employer into disrepute. For purpose of clarity, an employer may choose, if they wish, to convert an implied term into an explicit contractual term.

    That said, the matter of breach of contract for bringing an employer’s business into disrepute is not clear cut and employers need to tread carefully. For example, when it was brought to the attention of an employer that one of their employees – an air hostess – also worked in the pornographic industry in her spare time, her employer took the view that what she did in her own time was her business and not theirs. A school board, on the other hand, disciplined a teacher when pictures of her appeared on a website showing fashion photographs of glamour models. The photographs were not pornographic.

    Guilt by association is your criterion for dismissal, not participation in any of the alleged disreputable deeds themselves. That being so, if you would actively seek ways to dismiss an employee for attending a “fund raiser for a known terrorist or terrorist organisation”, what would you do if you discovered that one of your employees was a member of an organisation with a history of anti-Catholic discrimination, some of whose clientele had been guilty of rioting, singing sectarian songs, displaying sectarian banners, leaving for dead the manager of a competing business, slitting the throat of a young man, and sending parcel bombs through the post? Would you:

    A) “Find a way to get rid of them”;
    B) Defend the organisation;
    C) Seek membership of that organisation?

    Your answer may include, where logically consistent, a combination of the above e.g. B and C.

    • Adam

      Such a moronic question. The 4 organisations i mentioned are proscribed organisations banned under UK law hence my views on them.

      I wouldnt get rid of someone for being a Rangers fan, much the same as i wouldnt get rid of any Muslims just because of the atrocities in New York or indeed get rid of any Celtic fans just because there are some in their support who attack referees, threaten opposing footballers, endanger opposing footballers wives and young children, or constantly sing about a proscribed organisation.

      There are other examples i could use to really strengthen my point, but i dont want to be accused of being like some of the idiots that follow my team.

      If this is the best you can offer up, then you need to have a hard look at yourself.

      • Jono

        In the interests of fairness, Adam makes no different a point about stokes, as has been made many a time about Rangers players and/or high profile associates. Lets take his point and condemn stokes actions as a very minimum of not looking good for his club.

        On another point, my experience has shown me, however sadly, that decisions get made to remove people from the organisation by “managing them right out the door”. In other words, leverage perfectly legal processes to engineer a situation over time where the person leaves or is dismissed, It happens sadly.

        • JimBhoy

          @Jono See my above post in reply to Lordmac, left before I read yours, I think Lennon will manage Stokes out the door eventually without bringing more attention to the situation. That kinda sums up both our points i think.

      • JohnBhoy

        So you’ve gone for option B.

        • Adam

          Nope, i didnt. I went for:

          d) I would do nothing as its a ridiculous hypothetical question ?

          Are you seriously comparing Rangers Football Club to the IRA or the Taliban ?

          If so, you need help my friend.

      • ecojon

        @ Adam

        The problem I have always found when an organisation get Proscribed is that no one will admit to being a member.

      • JohnBhoy

        @Adam

        You introduced the idea of a new employment practice based on dismissal by association. When the adverse implications of your ill-thought out policy are brought to your attention you resort to abuse and evasion. If reasoned discussion is beyond your intellectual capabilities then you really ought to refrain from pretending otherwise. An inflated ego and reckless bravado are poor substitutes for intelligence.

        • Adam

          Im happy to have reasoned discussion when their is a reasonable topic to debate. When someone takes what i wrote about proscribed terrorist organisations and not wanting my staff to be involved with them on any level and tries to compare it to a Football Club, for me, that goes beyond reasoned discussion.

          I will ask you this if you would like a reasonable debate.

          Lets say you are watching the television tonight and there is a Taliban rally in Glasgow where people are screaming for the death of Western civilisation and at the front of those protesters is one of your senior managers. Would you ignore this because its his political view ?

          • ecojon

            @ Adam

            Would that still be your view if you knew that the manager’s wife and children were being held by the Taliban to force him to take part in the demo?

            • Adam

              Eh…..No. If my employees family were being held by a terrorist group and he was being forced to take this action against his will to save his family, i think I would do everything i could to help and support him.

              But you do win a prize for the strangest question i have ever been asked i think. 🙂

            • ecojon

              @ Adam

              How’s about a stranger one – would you switch places with him?

            • Adam

              If you can tell me the reason or point i may answer, but I really see no relevance to anything i said.

              On the premise i answered your question, why dont you return the favour and answer my question. And its on the premise that you have established that he there of his own free will and really holds those “political” beliefs.

    • Maggie

      @JohnBhoy
      Love the second paragraph and the ABC multiple choice.
      We’re really going with a school theme today it seems.

      • JohnBhoy

        Ha ha. I note Adam’s retort. Usual formulaic response: insult + prevarication + insult. It is a shame to tease someone so lacking in the minimum cerebral functionality found in the average goldfish.

    • Veronica Guerin knows for all eternity about the answers to your questions, I wonder did the selik deal with bokes the same way they did with the Poppy banner disgrace, that is not at all

      I see o’rourke put his foot in it again and him being Scottish, or is he.

  15. JohnBhoy

    Lest I forget, may all your Christmases be Whyte.

  16. robertg

    Not sure that is a Lochgelly in the picture. My elderly father was a teacher and adept user of same (apparently – he never used it in the home, but I knew a few folks who had been on the receiving end at school) and I recall it being more like a plank of wood than the slightly flaccid exanple in the picture. More Dirty Harry’s Magnum than the mini revolver a Bond Girl may have secreted among her lingerie you have shown here.

    Back on topic, I would applaud a return to debating the legalities (and possibly ethics) of matters on here in the comments. If you don’t agree with the legal argument, argue back on why, don’t start with the ‘why are you looking at this’ nonsense which seems to have got a bit of a head of steam up recently. There are plenty of other places we can get that.

    Funnies are welcome also (in my opinion).

  17. JimBhoy

    @Robertg I remember both styles of strap, experienced them many times… As humiliating as getting the belt was when the teacher in question did not have their own and told you to go to another teacher to borrow their belt…. And then you had the return journey… I recall getting 6 of the finest from a guy who could dish it out. I met him at a school visit for my Daughter recently and he recognised me (after 29 years) and still called me by my surname.. 🙂 Good Celtic man though so he is forgiven..

  18. What made me laugh was your absurd claim that my posts were somehow “caught” you deliberately direct them to moderation because you cannot stomach anyone defending The Rangers, it obviously does not look good for either you or your blog to have Rangers supporters exposing your nonsense and the naked anti-Rangers agenda of many of your favoured posters disguised as musings, perhaps like rtc you will do a runner.

    • robertg

      Since all that generally happens on here is a view of the legalities of matters (note: “a” view, there are often counter opinions, a good example of which would be the 2:1 nature of the FTT where RFC had a judgement – which is currently under appeal – in their favour for a majority but not all of the EBT’s they had been operating).

      If you have a point to make regarding the arguments on here, argue the point, please don’t give us the “anti Rangers Agenda” nonsense. If you don’t like the content, don’t read it. Last time I checked, I had to make a conscious decision to visit this site. I assume that if you don’t like beans, you don’t feel compelled to buy them every time you walk past a shop that sells them (although from the nature of your posts, I would guess that you would possibly stage a protest march about the nakedly pro beans agenda of the large supermarkets).

      I’m sure the blog owner and most of the other visitors appreciate a range of balanced argument. Ranting like one of the prophets in the Life of Brian has its place in the catalogue of humour, but since your’s don’t seem to be even slightly ironic, I can only guess you’re serious. If you are, take the time to do a guest post explaining why the posts are wrong and offer a counter opinion.

  19. Paul

    Alex made the comment in response to something I wrote about Ecojon “I will be ignoring you”. I think it was directed at the actions of Ecojon and not you. Alex can confirm or otherwise.

    • charliedon

      I think this a record time for Violet leaping to in to try and defend one of alex’s obnoxious posts – just 4 minutes later. Fascinating.

  20. Steven brennan

    http://fee.org/the_freeman/detail/moderation-in-all-things/
    Have wee read of this, i think there is some relevance.
    Enjoy!

  21. ExiledBairninFurrybootsCity

    Never mind book burning, references to being belted for not knowing the place brought back many memories.
    I had an inspirational Arithmetic teacher, and die hard Partick Thistle fan, know as Kenny McLeod. Immediately prior to the O Grade prelim he wrote his name on the blackboard and articulated thus: “big M, small C, big L, small E, small O small D and if anybody gets it wrong I’ll belt them”.
    After the festive break he called out a number of my classmates out and belted them while chanting the mantra “I even (bang) told you (bang) how to (bang) spell it (bang)”.
    He then went on to belt a third of the class for not getting at least 50%. I’m pleased to say that I wasn’t among the guilty on either count.

  22. Richboy

    I haven’t been on here for a while although I have kept abreast of current trends on this blog to my dismay. When I first read this blog it was like a breath of fresh air from the vile putrid diatribes I was reading on various Old Firm sites.

    Reading this blog, and its comments, enlightened me about such things as mens rea and tu quoque. I also learned that some guy Schroedinger had a cat and another guy, Pascal, had a wager. I learned a lot about financial, legal, moral and ambiguous issues related to Scots Law (and not just in relation to the Old Firm). I was most impressed when I read, and understood, a post about a lady who claimed to be impecunious. Until that day I had never heard the word “impecunious”.

    So please, let’s get back to the good old days when the posts and comments were about legal/financial matters and not the tired old rubbish about Celtic vs Rangers, Protestant vs Catholic, my bigotry is more righteous than your bigotry.

    Surely we can all agree to disagree without resorting the tactics used by OF morons on the less savory sites. In my opinion, Paul tries to present the legal info on matters currently of interest to Scottish people. In the current climate that seems to be mostly (although not exclusively) Rangers related. Rangers fans need to get over the “we are being victimised” mentality. If tables were turned, the Gers fans would be winding up the Bhoys in exactly the same manner.

    BTW, I also hate music teachers. My teacher in Primary school thought she was Julie fecking Andrews. Because my voice broke when I was only eight, she thought I was taking the proverbial and beat me on a regular (daily) basis. Bitch!

  23. Andy

    I think that whilst as Paul says he does pose legal questions and opinions in relation to news stories from Scottish football….However, I think it is a tad obtuse to deny that the main driver for the articles is the one consistent party, Rangers (in the vast majority of cases).

    However, in saying that, this is Paul’s blog, and therefore his right to write on subject of his choice is exactly that. The fact that Paul chooses to investigate the goings on at Rangers in repsect of lawfulness or not is his perogative, and if people do not like it then there are plenty of other sites to talk about other things.

    The Rangers fans posting on here, like myself, are in the minority, however we were drawn here initially to find a legal view point on what was actually going on (albeit it has become far more shall we say anti Rangers slant on it since decisions didnt exactly go the way that certain people wanted) and it has been interesting.

    The blog has been good for commentators a like, which whilst there have been major spats along the way, nothing has been taken too far, or at least allowed to be posted, which was only 1.45% so its a good place to debate.

    Where I do disagree is that Rangers are the biggest show in town with respect to legal issues going on in Scottish football……The reconstruction of our game with or with Rangers for me is a far bigger legal minefield than that of one club, but that is unlikely to be debated on here.

    • Gortnamona

      Andy

      ” However, I think it is a tad obtuse to deny that the main driver for the articles is the one consistent party, Rangers (in the vast majority of cases).”

      I don’t think any sensible person can disagree with that.

    • Ally McMoist

      “it has become far more shall we say anti Rangers slant on it since decisions didn’t exactly go the way that certain people wanted” – I would say the certain people you mention are just about everyone except The Rangers fans who recognise the tax man & taxpayer have been,dare i say,”duped” by Rangers plus it may be more accurate to suggest folk are maybe getting a bit peed off at the thought of some people getting away with not paying the same tax as the rest of us? If that makes us all anti-Rangers then so be it.

  24. Stephen

    Paul, this could also mean that 98.55% of your readers are not Rangers fans!

  25. portpower

    Getting six of the best for a bodily function. I blame the age of plastic.
    They took away the wooden chair and brought in the cheap substitute.
    As for being left handed. God only knows. My poor knuckles.

  26. Gortnamona

    Maggie

    I am surprised that nobody has mentioned Billy Connolly’s Marie’s Wedding (music appreciation). It has been many years, but I remember it as an hilarious description of the old style music lesson.

    Maybe Mick could post a link

    • Maggie

      @Gortnamona
      Oh I totally forgot about that! The Big Yin at his best.
      It was The Lord of the Dance ( not Michael Flatley ) but
      the hymn to music by Aaron Copland that blighted my early
      years at high school.
      What The Big Yin would make of ….dance,dance,wherever you
      may be,I am the Lord of the Dance said he ….. Arghhhhhh
      I loathe it.

  27. Richboy

    “I think it is a tad obtuse to deny that the main driver for the articles is the one consistent party, Rangers (in the vast majority of cases).”

    The main driver is the club that has a variety of legal issues pending. I can think of no other club in Scotland (except possibly Hearts) that has such a myriad of problems. Rangers problems are not only numerous but also interesting from a legal perspective, therefore the success of this blog.

    We could discuss, at length, the problems at St Johnstone or even Ross County but, lets be honest, we would not know where to start or even where to care.

    In respect of Rangers not being the biggest show in town, I agree with the sentiment if not with the premise. The Old Firm are the biggest show in Scottish football and few of their fans could give a flying monkeys about league reconstruction. The minor teams (see how many Kilmarnock fans turned up to see them play the Champions) can whinge and whine all they like, at the end of the day Celtic and Rangers will decide (good or bad) what happens in Scottish football.

    The reconstruction is unlikely to be seriously discussed on any OF blogs and it is unfair of you to single out Pauls blog in this respect.

    • ecojon

      @ Richboy

      I disagreed with another poster recently whose main thrust was that the blog should be concentrating more on the ‘bigger’ issues such as the SFA.

      But there is a problem in that, as there are other engines already in existance and TSFM is also looking at how it could be done.

      And the real power of football fans is bums on seats at their home stadiums and to a much lesser extent also on fan websites for their club. So it makes it difficult to weld eveything together and as I argued it takes a ‘trigger’ event and without that I have serious reservations any broad based alliance could be formed and sustained for any length of time.

      Obviouly the events surrounding the actions of the SFA, SPL and SFL was triggered by the Ranger collapse. If it had been Celtic who had collapsed then I am fairly confident there would have been as much interet and I would certainly have been beavering away trying to get to the bottom of it.

      IMHO Ranger fans are being fed the ‘victim’ line for a variety of reaons but in truth they aren’t that important in the big picture. What is important is dissecting what has happened and what is still happening.

      As an example I only learnt yesterday from the Rangers Prospectus about the SFA and it’s shocking manipulation over allowing RFC 2012 Ltd (IA) to front the arbitration case because TRFC Ltd wasn’t an SFA member at the time and couldn’t launch the action.

      But Rangers could win millions through the arbitration procedure because the way the deal is structured. So instead of these millions going to the ordinary creditors they go to Rangers.

      The actings of D&P and the SFA are despicable IMHO but it just shows how much is probably still out there to be uncovered.

    • Andy

      @Richboy

      I am not sure what your point is, you seem to agree with me on most points. As you say it is an ‘OF’ blog, well actually its a legal view point on Rangers going ons. All this is fine, but I think the point is that some are trying to make…why dress it up as something else when there is nothing wrong with doing a blog for this, as it is a matter of relevant interest to many?

      My final point, Paul has said that it is a legal site, not an ‘OF’ or Rangers blog, yet what he has chosen to write about is Rangers, when there are bigger shows in town….So I dont think I am being unfair, as I think the blog is great, I enjoy it, but it is essentially a blog about Rangers, which is fine as I said it’s Paul’s blog and he can write about Rangers legal position for aslong as he sees fit.

  28. JohnBhoy

    In an ‘O’ Grade Mathematics exam, a question concerned a right-angled triangle, with two known sides and one unknown, x. The question, for 4 marks, was to find x, using of course Pythagoras’ Theorem. Some wit drew a circle around x and scribbled beside it “Here it is!”.

  29. mcfc

    FA shoot other foot OR football administration must not only be incompetent it must be seen to be incompetent

    Just when you think a football body has made a straightforward decision based on a simple set of facts and a simple rule – they decide they were wrong and reverse it – no new evidence – no tricky technicalities – god help us – http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20696090

    • Adam

      I wonder if their rivals over in Leeds will go mental at this and start a campaign to get this decision overturned. Or if they will forget about it given their rivals lack of giving a toss back in 2008 when they were in a situation. 🙂

      • mcfc

        I think it’s Brentford that have a right to be going ballistic over this – the FA really are a hopeless bunch of numpties. Looks like widely respected ex City chairman Mr Bernstein has not yet reached the parts that other chairman don’t reach – or else he’s been overwhelmed by the numptiness and is going native.

  30. JohnBhoy

    TUPE

    “I made the point when these players walked they were in breach of contract… No chance we’ll give them up. It’s wrong that these players walked out on the club to feather their own pockets.” Green said (http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/205473-rangers-chief-executive-charles-green-speaks-to-scotland-tonight/?).

    Under The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006, Regulation 5 (4a) and (4b), an employee’s contract of employment will not transfer if prior to the transfer or upon being notified of it the employee objects to his employment transferring. A number of SEVCO players chose that option. Indeed, depending on an employee’s reasons for refusing to transfer, an employee may have a claim for compensation for constructive unfair dismissal. A number of other footballers appear to have gone down that route. The latter group may have argued that they resigned because there was a substantial change to their conditions of employment to their material detriment, if that was indeed the case. An Employment Tribunal will decide what constitutes “material detriment” but, importantly, the case of Barnetts Solicitors v Royden and others clarified that working conditions do not necessarily correlate to contractual conditions. No European football for three years and/or no SPL football might qualify as a detriment yet not appear as an explicit contractual term.

    If the players that Green is chasing for breach of contract failed to notify him in good time of their objection to the transfer, i.e. they “affirmed” their transfer, then he may have a strong case. On the other hand, if they made their objections clear and in good time, and in writing, then they may have a strong case, irrespective of any consequential financial gain on their part. If they felt that their transfer would result in material detriment to themselves then they could have, in addition, claimed constructive unfair dismissal, as the group above appeared to have done.

    It would be interesting to know why Green is claiming breach of contract. TUPE is pretty straightforward and an employee can opt out of transferring. He/she just puts it in writing: “I refuse to transfer from employer [A] to employer [B] and hereby give notice that I will terminate my contract of employment on the date of transfer” would normally suffice.

    • mick

      thanks for that john it just proves how daft green is that he thinks the broke employment laws the pfa done well for the young lads and will be there to fight there corner every1 that is up to date on it knows greens tripping out his tree

      • JohnBhoy

        It is disappointing to read that members of the PFA are attempting to distance themselves from the very union that has stood up for them. Shame on them. Fraser Wishart is a decent and honourable person and deserves better.

    • Maggie

      @JohnBhoy
      Thanks for the link,it made my day JB.Brilliant to see Chico
      back in the spotlight referring to himself in the third person and
      mixing his metaphors.”Feathering their pockets” assume he’d be
      equally dismissive of those wishing to “Line their nests”
      He’s priceless.

      • ecojon

        @ Maggie

        What was better was how he spun it yesterday that they were to blame for walking away and I got the distinct impression he was claiming they were suing him and instead it’s a club in liquidation fronting for newco Rangers and not one MSM journo has spotted that little piece of skullduggery by the SFA.

        Newco couldn’t go to SFA arbitration because they weren’t members at the time but it wa OK for a club in admin to do it.

        And if Green wins newco gets the money – could be millions – and the ordinary creditors don’t get a sniff.

  31. cam

    If Mr McMurdo’s report is accurate it would appear that the chaps in charge of the financial markets dealing with RFC’s IPO are being “deluged” by callers objecting to the prospectus’ Gers history claims.
    This site i would reckon is the foremost authority on oldco/newco history debates and i have provided a link to the stock markets so that potential investors in the resurgent Gers don’t get misled.
    One of the shifty little parasites thanked me for the link as he is now using micks financial strategies and is cleaning up by investing heavily in Tesco shares.

    • mick

      great read that paul a had the belt and done oliver at school the songs were great still are a see a lawyer got 12 days today at the calton place lol a wonder how this would affect his standing back in russia

    • mick

      cam my financial strategies are make every penny a prisoner ,shifty little parasites does old co and any1 they employed spring to mind ???

  32. cam

    As i promised Den that i would research HSBC and their US money laundering penalty,i am now plodding through reams off devo well tasty industrial scale jiggery pokery.
    This mob make Craig Whyte look like a straight up guy.
    My three verse essay on the banking scandal and the evils of filthy lucre may be delayed by the fascinating aerodynamic qualities of the lid off a pack of Dairylea cheese triangles.

    • cam

      I see the link and my finger recoils,,is this programmed behaviour?,am i guilty of reverse bigotry? have the MSM clouded my opinion of the individual?
      Nah,,,i just don’t want his thoughts anywhere near me.
      To that character, my mind is closed firmly

    • Does this blog really need to get dragged into this. NI is not unlike the Schleswig Holstein question and the answer thereto. Only 3 men new the answer, one was dead, one was mad and the other said he had forgotten.

      • mick

        well violet carson the blog all day have been going on about tony stokes and the talibian even got a mention so why not this will we sweep it under the bulging carpet ?also it will let bloggers know to keep clear of the cc as there might be drama a hope theres not but we are dealing with a deluded bunch of has beens who do tend to have a violent streak

  33. ian lewis

    Strikes me(little play on words there)that there are a few contributors who weren’t belted hard enough-I was asked once “if I wanted some more”-I later realised that this is on par with being asked “when did you stop beating your wife”-I remember being chased by the parkie for playing football in the park -he was screaming “what do you think this is ,a public park?”I realised then that I would never understand grownups so I’ve never tried.

    • I’ve read it, but I don’t believe it. You should look at the sentence and paragraph construction. And then, try saying some of it out loud. This man is a fanatic and a self serving one at that.

    • cam

      I totally agree on that Michael,especially on this subject.I always held big Jock in high esteem.He liked the burds and a wee punt? big deal.
      I must say though Michael that his writing style does bear an uncanny resemblance to some of your stuff.
      Mick is Leggo,Cam is Andy,Andy is sane,Mick is mad,Cam is insane,Cam is Mick,,,,there you 6 degrees of seperation.
      I am you Michael and we are brothers.

      • mick

        are you saying you are a son of jesus cam after all this time that would make us brothers ,why you picking on andy he is the most repected rangers fan on the net and on here he is not blinkered and if you had him as a spokes man yous would not be in the state yous are in hes clever and 3 dimentional and as for you cam you could not tie his shoe laces

      • Maggie

        @cam
        I’ve got it now,you’re really Kevin Bacon. You gave it away
        with the 6 degrees comment. Now I understand why I like you.
        Goanny dae that dance fae Footloose 🙂

  34. try to get your head out the sand there is a helluva lot swept under that boardroom carpet. the truth is out there . but your too obsessed with the massive club to notice or even care.

  35. cam

    Bearing in mind that Craig Whyte deducted PAYE and NI at source but HMRC didn’t receive this money as it was used as operating funds in a company that Mr Whyte’s train driving skills ensured had a planned stop at the end of the line.
    The company goes bust, the Whyte slice of the debt gets lumped in with the rest,the creditors get stuffed and Craigie spends Xmas in Castle Grant looking at Bentley replacements.
    I think the guy would fit right in at one of the major banks.

  36. cam

    Whyte in my opinion is a product of this greedy grasping world where people like him know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
    Super Ally is a legend no matter what.
    Murray’s train was a runaway that should have had the emergency brake applied much sooner.SDM is currently hunting down the vandals who interfered with the points and attempted derailment.
    British Rail like HMRC have a strict policy regards trespass.
    Your train is going round the bend too quickly.
    My train has left the platform without a guard.
    RFC are not fare dodgers,the ticket said all day and its open to interpretation if that means every day.
    The inspector is coming and i’m off to hide in the loo.

  37. dan

    Re this chat about music teachers. I attended and all boys school and we had one called Lulu (not her real name) and she was a bit eccentric to say the least. On one occasion she decided to teach us about ‘volume’ and asked us to imagine we had knobs on our chests, which, on her signal, and to the strains, and they were strains, of The Hebridean Love Song ( overmeeoh oh rovanoh etc.) we were to turn the knobs clockwise for volume up, anti for volume down. We did this, learned nothing we didn’t already know, but got through an excruciating single period. The following week I decided to play the wag and asked Lulu if we could play with our knobs agin. It got a laugh, she got the point and I got the belt for being a smartass.

  38. Budweiser

    Paul
    They’ve no gon an loast thum agane huv thee? DM Hall state – We have not had the opportunity of inspecting the title deeds of the subjects under valuation. Bomber – your turn! Is this perchance what they mean by ‘title stripping’?.

  39. mick

    forgive all the vids but they are well related to the comments at the moment heres the bambottery version of john bomber brown totally rangers and speaks from his heart although drunk

  40. mick

    were behind you bomber was the cry that day then green offered him what ??to go away and keep his mouth shut ??

  41. JohnBhoy

    Charles Green:
    “I said when I first came along the reason for me doing it was to make money and the only thing that’s changed since the statement I made in May is that my time-scale has been considerably extended.”

    Charles Green:
    “It’s wrong that these players walked out on the club to feather their own pockets.”

    Hypocrisy, from old French ypocrisie, is obviously the reserve of old French scholars from Yorkshire with more noble beliefs than those they condemn.

    • stop running from the issue mickbhoy! have a wee look under that rug ,go on have a wee look, you know you want to, go on, just a wee peek as good old mrs doyle would say , go on go on go on go on go on .

    • Andy

      @johnbhoy

      Fair point. Part of the reason why I never held any ill will towards those players that chose to leave, I actualy like to see them doing well, obviously not yet with edu, whittaker, ness as they dont get a game,lol. Green seems to be getting a wage most people would be happy with anyway, guess that might be why he is with us long term….:)

      I am however confused by this latest claim by Wishart that certain players would be able to claim the money they agreed to forgo back?

      Though I do agree we should give up on trying to recover fees for those that left unless it was for the benefit of the old creditors, which doesnt appear to be the case.

      • JohnBhoy

        Hi Andy, I haven’t seen the statement by Fraser Wishart you refer to. It may be that there was an agreement providing for recovery of the temporary cut in salary under certain circumstances. Alternatively, if the players in question felt that their employer breached their contract of employment then they may be arguing that any detriment suffered before their proposed transfer, and related to their transfer, should be invalid, even if previously agreed.

        Perhaps it is being conflated with the claim for a Protective Award – though unlikely – which is a sanction for failure to consult. It’s a hefty fine: a quarter of the yearly wage bill for every employee affected. Only one claim needs to succeed for all the players to benefit. Charlie could refuse to cough up and then it would be for the individual players to submit personal claims via an Employment Tribunal.

        From a trade union perspective Fraser Wishart is right to charge Charlie with failure to consult, if that was indeed the case. A trade union needs to take a principled stance on this as it deters other employers from refusing to consult in a TUPE situation.

        I agree that Charlie should drop his action against those employees who terminated their own contracts – I can’t see how he can win that one. Likewise, those players who secured alternative employment at no financial loss to themselves ought to move on.

  42. posmill

    Enjoyed the read Paul, took me right back to a similar incident in Primary 4: Teacher goes out, comes back and whole class is talking. Silence as she walks to her desk. “Everybody who was talking stand up against the wall.” Every boy (none of the girls) in the class gets up and stands against the wall. “Everyone put their hands out for the…” Every boy runs back to his seat before she can finish (or administer) the sentence. She shakes her head and gets on with the class.

  43. Den

    Coming to this late but Internet connection was down.

    A few blogs in moderation is next to book burning by the Nazis. Nothing like a sense of perspective.

    Considering the source of the blogs it was more like a public service.

    As for the old tawse. Is there a better way to instill the love of learning in anyone than to punish error with sore hands !

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