Let’s Jump in the Time Machine – An Occasional Series – How Predictions Can Go Wrong

I was idly clicking through the internet, checking up information for a piece I am writing when I came across a couple of fun posts.

I offer extracts from them to you as a quiz. All you have to do is guess the writer, the topic and the date. No prizes, as for each one you can find the answer at the foot of the piece.

This is all intended purely as a lighthearted bit of fun and I trust the excellent writers I quote do not take offence – none is intended.

I am sure that there is a lot I have written here which has turned out to be wrong too, so I am not claiming infallibility. In fact, I have never spoken ex cathedra.

Anyway – on with the quiz, but feel free to chip in your own examples in the comments.

Question 1

Who wrote, when, and about whom, the following?

(I have edited the piece to make it a challenge, but have retained the typographical errors. I do not however wish to be accused of bear-baiting.)

——————————————

“(Mr X) has done more than merely confound his critics by showing he is the real deal. He has also displayed the sort of tough technique in talks which he will surely be able to use for the good of Rangers in the fututre (sic).

(He) has got what he wanted, and made his dream of owning the club come true.

At the moment, with the country skint and deep in Labour led debt, what he has done is join the stampede of savvy shoppers to Poundland. He has squeezed and squeezed, and then squeezed a bit more, and the result is there should be more money available for Rangers.

Remember, when Sir David Murray first put Rangers up for sale three years ago the asking price was in the region of £40M. When (Mr X) entered the scene a figure of around £20M started being quoted, and as recently as a couple of weeks ago it had dropped to Murray getting back the original £6M he paid for Rangers in 1988.

That (Mr X) ended pocketing the title deeds for Rangers, Ibrox Stadium and Murray Park for (not much) tells us one thing. Do NOT play poker with this man.

Such has been the amount of muckraking and mud hurled at (Mr X), that there are many Rangers supporters who still doubt him. They though, will soon be won over if the new owner gets together quickly with Ally McCoist and lets him loose in the transfer market.

A couple of quick singings (edit – yes, it says singings, not signings) would soon dispel much of the doubts. And such a move would also have the spin-off of boosting season ticket sales, which have dropped by 6,000 during the last two uncertain years.

Part of the deal included a pledge he would pay off the club’s debt to Lloyds. When that is done, then all (Mr X) has to do to sent his approval ratings soaring among the Rangers support, is show Lloyds and the bank’s man on the Rangers board the Ibrox door.

Maybe he could even restort (sic) to the language of the people …. PICK A WINDAE. YOU’RE LEAVING!

There are many in the media who will stop at nothing to undermine Rangers, some with more subtle style than others. This is something (Mr X) will have to confront head-on in a much more aggressive way than Murray ever did.

If the new owner shows similar tough tactics in this area as he did in the negotiations which landed him Rangers, then that too would find favour with fans.

He should beware of smarm and charm. There are plenty of people within Ibrox who know the score in this area, and who can advise (Mr X) on the way forward, in order that Rangers no longer present an easy target to their many enemies.

Confounding the enmies (sic) of Rangers should be one of the first tasks for (Mr X) now that he has confounded his critics.

——————————————

Now question 2

Who wrote, when, and about whom, the following?

——————————————

It’s been a rough ride for (Mr X) since he took over at Rangers. If he had any illusions about how difficult a job it would be or how many obstacles, real or imagined, would be placed in his way then I think those illusions will now have been dispelled. There is no doubt that legitimate questions remain on his plans for Britain’s most successful club but the sad truth is that instead of those questions being posed in a calm and rational way by those who love the club, they are being obscured by the muck raking and dramatisation of Scotland’s desperate press and their ‘Celtic minded’ hangers on.

First let me state that I remain to be entirely convinced by Craig Whyte. He has done some things well and some things poorly since taking over. I am sure he would acknowledge that the transfer dealings of the club have been shambolic over the past two windows but as with many of the things for which he is attracting criticism he is not alone in making mistakes. Ally McCoist’s insistence on revealing the name of virtually every target to the press has not helped, for example. The sale of Nikica Jelavic was not handled well but the press have again tried to shed a more negative light on it by suggesting he did not want to leave. Forcing a move and wanting to leave are two different things. Jelavic absolutely wanted to leave and although he will be missed from a numbers point of view, his form this season has been poor.

(Mr X’s) performance with the press has, on the whole, been refreshing if a touch naive. I’m sure some would argue the opposite but it is about time we had a chairman who was prepared to end the open season on Rangers. With several media outlets now persona non grata at Ibrox it is clear the knives are out but someone had to draw the line. The frustrating thing from a fans’ point of view is that instead of asking pertinent questions that need to be answered, the personal attacks on (Mr X) have, in most cases, made it easy for him to respond.

Only STV and a select few journalists seem to be interested in reporting fact rather than innuendo. The Daily Record report on Ticketus may well have contained some questions which (Mr X) needed to answer but it was so shrouded in personal attack from members of the old board and so wooly in terms of understanding the finances behind the headlines that it lost all impact over the first couple of paragraphs. Sports journalists are not in their profession because they have an understanding of finance but that hasn’t stopped them from having a pop at it over the past few years.

I have to say it is hard to see the comments (of former Board Members P##l M####y and A######r J######n) as anything other than sour grapes. They seem incapable of putting across their concerns without sniping at (Mr X) like jilted lovers. There is also, tellingly, a total lack of any alternative put forward by them. You want to sit them down and say “Ok guys we get it. You don’t like or trust (Mr X) but what exactly are you proposing?”

Murray et al had four years to come up with an alternative and couldn’t. It’s time for them to stop bitching and allow us to examine (Mr X’s) tenure on its merits and over a sensible period of time once this tax case has reached a conclusion.

I am impressed that (Mr X) has now stepped up several times to (answer questions). The press in Scotland certainly never saw fit to question Sir David Murray in this way when his reckless spending brought the club to this point. It’s notable that the same hacks who gave Murray such an easy ride are the ones now attempting to discredit (Mr X), but they are of course a dying breed. With newspaper sales plummeting and most people becoming aware of stories on the internet long before they have even dusted down their typewriters, they are more desperate than ever to create stories rather than report them.

Make no mistake, there are people currently working around the fringes of journalism and also in mainstream media who are trying to create an environment in which Rangers can only fail. They want to discredit the club and the easiest current target is the new owner. They want to make it difficult for us to attract new finance or gain favourable terms with creditors. The more mud they sling the more it sticks and if there are real issues with (Mr X) they are being obscured by what now appears to be a vendetta.

Once again, on the day after the Daily Record story, the usual suspects were prematurely congratulating themselves on the demise of Rangers … as they do anytime one of their pet subjects makes it into a mainstream paper. If the fans want to vent their frustrations somewhere then it is here that their targets should be found.

Ally McCoist called for unity on Friday. Those who are mistrustful of (Mr X) should remember that there are people working in Ibrox who know a lot more about him, his motives and his methods than the press do. Does anyone doubt that McCoist or Gordon Smith have the best interests of the club at heart? Do they really think if (Mr X) was trying to pull off some sort of swindle then they would stand by and watch it happen? There are tough times ahead and (Mr X) has already stated many times that we cannot continue to spend money we don’t have.

The fans need to back the new owner and understand that what he is doing may not be popular but it is necessary. If working within our budget means that young players like Fleck and Hutton will return from loan spells and take their place in our team next year then I am all for it.

Rangers have to become a sustainable business – one that does not rely on injections of cash from people like David Murray or (Mr X). The type of facilities that (Mr X) is using are more and more common in business these days with invoice discounting and factoring being used as a replacement for bank lending which is now so difficult to secure.

(Mr X) has my full support for the moment. His detractors continue to fail to convince or put forward a viable alternative and as long as that is the case he remains the only show in town.

——————————————

Answer 1

You can find the full piece here, written by that vastly experienced man of letters David Leggat, on 7th May 2011, when the Craig Whyte era (yes, that is Mr X) commenced.

Answer 2

You can find the full piece here. This one is about the same Mr X, Craig Whyte. However this was written rather later in his tenure – on 5th February 2012, just 9 days prior to Mr Whyte taking Rangers into administration.

The author was the former blogger, and now major writer on The Rangers Standard, Chris Graham. The telegenic Mr Graham has also now achieved a position as STV’s “official” Rangers fan, when they need a contribution to Scotland Tonight.

This piece is a fine example of how even the best writers can make a wrong call, and Mr Graham deserves every credit for not letting the small error of fully supporting Craig Whyte get in the way of his detailed and forensic analysis now of all the people outside Ibrox responsible for the club he follows being in SFL3.

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88 Comments

Filed under Alleged Humour, Football, Quiz

88 responses to “Let’s Jump in the Time Machine – An Occasional Series – How Predictions Can Go Wrong

  1. TheBlackKnight TBK

    Haha!

    I had the LeggolandLunatic and Adam……. 🙂

    • Truthsayer6

      “HaHa!
      I had the RTC & The BlackGooseyGoosey..”

      Edited for accuracy 🙂

      Tip of the Chapeau to you Sirs! However most sane people with a Social skills whom conduct their day to day life with respect & dignity for others consider that your Blogs of Bitterness & Hate should be left behind in the Schoolyards. If you carry on down that road when you get to working life & a career you could find yourself discredited & without a job?

      Oh… Wait a minute…
      Doh!
      Ill get me coat

    • Truthsayer6

      Haha!

      I had the BlackGoosey lunatic and PhilMcGobbledyGook…….

      Edited for Accuracy

      • TheBlackKnight

        awe……… seems my bitter twitter troll is following me…. must hurt 😦

        • Truthsayer6

          What’s wrong GooseyGoosey?

          Just you keep on doing what your doing. A tip of the Chapeau to you Sir! Your masterclass spiels are comic gold & breathtaking to behold.

          But a Bigot is a Bigot.
          You’ll grow up soon & mature my young Padwah

          😘

  2. Macduff

    Lest you forgot Mr Traynors – ‘Rangers will be playing in the SPL, don’t you worry about that’.

    I suspect that there are so many, that the Internet servers wouldn’t be able to cope.

  3. JimBhoy

    Leggo needs a chant no a rant… I quote… “A couple of quick singings would soon dispel much of the doubts.” Altogether now, The cry was no Agenda, Craig Whyte will make us die..

    wouldn’t get me mispelling my wrods… 🙂

    • JimBhoy

      Only the one TD for that… This site is going way down hill…. Almost as much as the rangers… Well?… Well?

      When i think of a certain rangers blogger lets call him stickle-bricks, I picture him sat alone in his room at night put there by his carer with a laptop on his dressing table. He is sat in his old presbyterian Grannie’s underwear applying Orange lipstick from ear to ear..

      That’s gotta be worth a dozen TDs surely?? 🙂

  4. Adam

    I thought it was David Leggatt for both of them.

  5. JimBhoy

    England under 16s V Scotland 16s presently on Sky sports 1….

  6. Joseph

    To think Leggatt made a career in newspapers beats me. I think he started as a copy (tea) boy! He’s still stirring it!

    • ecojon

      @ Joseph

      To be fair all journalists started as copy boys back in the day. That was the basic route into journalism before there were media studies courses at universities and colleges.

      And they didn’t make tea – they got it from the canteen 🙂

      Basically they distributed the ‘copy’ which was the original sheet of paper and blacks (carbon copies) after the journo had typed them on a manual typewriter – to the various different places they had to go.

      They fetched and carried for the journos and a group of them would sit at the copy desk waiting to spring into action when the shout ‘COPY’ went up from a hack. Bigger operations would have news copydesks and sports copydesks and sometimes others.

      It was all very sink or swim although there was some day release for those who showed any aptitude and revealed cut-throat qualities. There was real compeition from anyone working at a paper to get their kid taken on as a copy boy. It was actually top of the hierarchy for new starts and ranked way above van and dispatch boys.

      The mark of a really good copy boy was to know where everyone hid things ranging from digestive biscuits to penguins and tea or coffee. Not as easy as it sounds as stashes were as well hidden as an SAS sniper. These qualities were especially important after the canteen had closed and the pub was shut.

  7. Bill

    Brilliant ,I think it would be possible to fill a good sized website with the crap thats been written concerning Rangers in the last eighteen months ,whether it be journos or bloggers ,ill informed ,malicious or good faith . It could be hilarious ,any takers .

  8. Aye, blogging’s a dangerous game alright – still, at least these guys have left their posts up for all to see even though they were ultimately proven wrong.

    I would have to say that some of the reaction in the immediate aftermath of the FTT result last week also makes amusing reading. In the rush to post, a few folk jumped straight to the end of the decision, not realising they were reading the dissenting opinion.

    Bonus point for working out the identity of this blogger:

    ” An anonymised version of the First Tier Tribunal verdict was published by the Finance and Trbunals service today. The 145 page document will take some reading but it concluded:

    “the trust payments are to be construed as ‘emoluments’ for the purposes of the tax legislation”

    For those without a dictionary to hand,… Emoluments: Synonyms earnings, pay, recompense.

    I for one am absolutely shocked that Sir David’s confidence was misplaced on this matter.

    Enjoy the game!”

    • NumbNuts

      “at least these guys have left their posts up for all to see even though they were ultimately proven wrong.” … before immediately referencing a CQN post where, you guessed it, the author left their post up despite making a mistook.

      Lets try and measure this a little bit higher than “at least” shall we? Something a bit more taxing (no pun intended) than the lowest expectation we can possibly apply. How about consistently getting it right even if not always right? How about consistently supportive of a discussion, not shouting it down? How about demonstrating an appetite for factual analysis as opposed to multitude variations of conspiracy theories and hidden agendas?

      You can keep “at least” and I’ll stick to the sites that offer content worth reading.

  9. I wonder if the journalists will ever ask/find out, what or which of the companies of which there are many, will mr green be offering shares in.
    Will it be
    Sevco5088
    Sevco scotland ltd
    The rangers football club ltd
    Rangers football plc
    Rangers international football club plc

    I’m sure in the interests of truth and transparency, the hacks will ask/find out.

  10. NumbNuts

    “Rangers cannot go out of business, they will not go out of business” – Mr James Traynor (radio).

  11. ecojon

    I had never seen Graham’s piece before and it is quite amazing – There is so much that could be highlighted but it would take too much effort to even scratch the surface.

    But I like the comment about transfers and I’m beginning to wonder if Ally used it as a plea in mitigation to the SFA – ‘Ally McCoist’s insistence on revealing the name of virtually every target to the press has not helped’.

    On reading the Darkside chico is currently exalted because he is the first ‘owner’ in years to defend Rangers and yet Graham writes about CW: ‘I’m sure some would argue the opposite but it is about time we had a chairman who was prepared to end the open season on Rangers. With several media outlets now persona non grata at Ibrox it is clear the knives are out but someone had to draw the line’.

    And then an absolute classic which I’ve never heard him repeat on his STV slot usually sitting with sports journos and shows that nothing has actually changed: ‘Sports journalists are not in their profession because they have an understanding of finance but that hasn’t stopped them from having a pop at it over the past few years’.

    And finally because there’s so many – and Paul are you really sure Graham is talking about CW and not chico although maybe Gordon Smith gives it away: ‘Ally McCoist called for unity on Friday. Those who are mistrustful of CW should remember that there are people working in Ibrox who know a lot more about him, his motives and his methods than the press do.

    ‘Does anyone doubt that McCoist or Gordon Smith have the best interests of the club at heart? Do they really think if CW was trying to pull off some sort of swindle then they would stand by and watch it happen? There are tough times ahead and CW has already stated many times that we cannot continue to spend money we don’t have’.

    It really is spooky it’s as if history is repeating itself – Groundhog Day at Ibrox.

  12. JimBhoy

    @JimLarkin who knows who cares to be honest. The Celtic minded on this site question lots but at the end of the day if the rangers boys are ok with what is unfolding who is it for US to say different…. Good to see fact and questioning and to hear the jibberish that some spiel (Green) but what other option do the rangers fans have..

    • ecojon

      @ JimBhoy

      Sadly in lots of ways they are all staring at that bright light in the tunnel along with Ally and hoping it all gets better.

      However, last few times I’ve seen ally on the box he really looks more under pressure than I have ever seen him. Wonder if there’s any new probs yet to be revealed by the Ibrox Mole who obviously hasn’t been caught yet.

  13. JimBhoy

    JimBhoy has in the past 3 hrs…. 33 TU to 1 TD Jeez…. Did i mention the orange jersey???? WTF..

    Did I mention my rangers share option idea… (More than 5 times already),

    Ok anyways collection buckets (orange and blue ones) at Ibrox, £1 a raffle ticket, get a 0 or 5 you get a printed share in whatever the company is, if you get a golden ticket you get to meet Chuckie and to see the machinations of his real IPO and how he clones his imaginary investors, behind the scenes, shhhh!!!.

    Word of warning don’t eat the blueberry sweets or drink the lemonade and if you steal an ever lasting gobstopper and are stopped by a man in glasses who wants to make you rich, you should be locked up in Carstairs ya fekin nutter ye..!

    • tykebhoy

      Could the lack of Thumbs down be a sign that a new set of creditors are starting to be no paid. I wonder if Elgin will get their share of the cup gate money on time?

  14. JimBhoy

    On a positive i liked how the wee Scots played tonight, passing out of defence, we were a little less physical than the English but made a good account of ourselves, I know one or two of the boys, some 14 yr old, hopefully the way forward…. Keeper was excellent think he is at rangers, great prospect, positioning first class, best I have seen at that age. Get our 17s playing first team football, the boys learn more in ( a game, winning sense) the 17-19 years than they will do the rest of their career.. Trust me I am a Doctor.. Did I mention Summer football…Colt teams, Rangers IPO idea, Orange strips….????

  15. Carl31

    I read this earlier…
    http://www.therangersstandard.co.uk/index.php/forum/article-debate/1009-a-never-considered-outcome
    I recognised the ‘look how many got it wrong’ tone, being one who thought the tribunal’s decision would go the other way, but otherwise the piece is just a stream of pish.

  16. Carl31

    Who can we point at as having held hold the following views?

    1. SDM is getting the club into too much debt and it will all end in tears
    2. CW is no billionaire and instead is a shyster that will shaft the club since hes just in it for himself
    3. Rangers will end up in liquidation since exit via cva has no chance
    4. D&P will end up in some trouble since they may be conflicted and are dragging admin out far too long
    5. New rangers wont get in SPL
    6. New rangers will end up starting from the bottom
    7. RTC will be decided in favour of rangers
    8. SPLIC will find against rangers but ‘ sentence’ will involve an asterisk option re titles and history books ( oops thats not happened yet).
    9. CG will cock up and new rangers will drop back into admin ( oh wait sorry thats not happened yet either).
    🙂

    • JimBhoy

      @carl31 who cares man che sara sara is on my coat of arms … I am giving up caring about rangers I want my team to move to the next level… Hail Hail..

      rangers are in the pickle because of rangers no-one else, learn from that..! None of my concern.

      • Den

        @jimbhoy
        “rangers are in the pickle because of rangers no-one els”

        If they had recognised that ages ago they would be in a much better state than they are now
        .

  17. JimBhoy

    @Alex no disrespect fella but I generally do not get ya….Anyways maybe one of these days I am not the smartest poster on this site that is for sure… Biggest p3nis yeah but not smartest… 😉

  18. Kevin Davey

    21.43 was Paul67 of CQN

  19. Paul c

    got the chris graham on straight away, I bet he would give anything to have not been so hasty in writing it,but if people said bad things about Whyte it was timmy lies. Fair play its still there unlike his “enemies of rangers”

    that mean I get half a prize?

  20. Felpan

    I am not a Rangers supporter but I am still backing Mr whyte all the way! Jus the other day a friend of mine showed me a flag saying Rangers will never die! So I believe that. I am also looking forward to Santa coming! Ally winning manager of the year (In Europe) and my hundred pound investment in a new Yorkshire pie stand outside the managers office in Ibrox to make me millions like the snake oil salesman told me it would! Did you know more people support and want to watch The Rangers than watched the last five world cups put together! But I don’t know if all of them there are facts as like I say I’m American not a Rangers supporter!

  21. Timmy7

    Got them both, well done me. I read Leggo every morning for the laughs but he has taken a very sinister turn recently; publishing names of people he has decided are part of the ‘anti-rangers cabal.’

    I hope he gets a visit from plod at some point soon.

    Any other readers of his site will notice a penchant for pointing out other writers’ errors – grammatical or otherwise – but will also notice there is no facility to post replies, maybe because of the many mistakes he make himself himself. People in glass houses…… Also what is it with that ANGRY font he is using now.

    As for Chris, oh dear. People who think football teams have ‘enemies’ really need to question their outlook on life.

  22. mcfc

    A TRFC spokesman claims Charles Green is carefully considering a lucrative Ibrox renaming offer from a consortium fronted by Burton, Dalton, Rice, Robbens, Spall, Vine, and Westwood.

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sports-direct-chief-mike-ashley-1464790

    • ecojon

      @ mcfc

      I have no doubt that the AIm Prospectus will touch-on how revenue can be increased and it would seem renaming the stadium would be mentioned as a possibility.

      However if I had been an institutional investor at one of the many AIM Presentation Roadshows mentioned by chico I would have said – well you’ve owned the club for five months so what offers do you actually have on the table at THIS moment for rebranding rights?

      Also if there’s any interest from Ashley I would throw in some ‘competition’ to up his offer. I reckon £1.5m a year for the Bears just wouldn’t be acceptable to them and they would look to at least £5-£10m. You can never say never to increasing Revenue in the current economic climate but it’s easier to sell to the fans if you state the money will be used for something indentifiable.

      But no fans are going to throw away history on the cheap no matter what owners want to do and I wouldn’t be happy at anything much less than £10m for say 2 or 3 years to rename Celtic Park. It would always be that or Parkheid anyway to the faithful just as Ibrox will always be that to the Bears no matter what names are spraypainted on the roofs.

      • mcfc

        @eco

        I have friends who support Newcastle and Sunderland and they hated and loved the renaming of St James’ respectively. The Sunderland fans also pledged never to visit Sports Direct again – so there are negatives for potential sponsors too i.e. 500M bears vs the rest of Scotland perhaps

        • mcfc

          @eco

          also by the time the deal ended most commentators and summarizers had just about adapted to the change – so the net benefit to Sports Direct was probably measurably lower than that pitched.

          • cam

            Many CFC fans to this day won’t drink McEwans lager or visit JJB.I always thought the best sponsor of the OF was CR SMITH.Fans of both sides had previous for keeping glaziers in work.
            One stand could be titled VAT69 at least thats a tax we all have to pay.
            If it brings in some cash they can paint what they like,its still Ibrox.

            • tykebhoy

              Well yes sort of. RFC certainly charged 20% on top of net last season but pedantically its only a tax when submitted to Revenues and Customs which someone at RFC failed to ensure happened

          • ecojon

            @ mcfc

            I really think it can turn into a potential minefield for the sponsor and can end-up affecting their brand image adversely.

            Just heard Ally on STV saying has open mind on naming rights but feels fans should have say.

            He really could have probs ahead as a major shareholder but also standard bearer for the fans as the two roles aren’t always compatible.

    • cam

      Won’t work,,,it will be at least 4 years before that many Tims get to sit in the blue seats.

  23. JimBhoy

    TFI Friday….

  24. JimBhoy

    Well no chance for the boys footie tomorrow on grass… No driving tomorrow am and I Hit Amazon for all the xmas pressies today, wooohooo!. Think it might be a night in with Sky anytime and some Creme De Menthe….

  25. Adam

    It is, It is, It is…..It is, It is, it is. 🙂

    Sounds like someone is trying to convince themselves by using the old auto repeat.

    10 RUN
    20 PRINT “It is new, youse are deid”
    30 GOTO 20

    🙂

  26. mcfc

    @adam – line numbers are so passe

    DO UNTIL integrity_restored = 1
    PRINT “We were the people,”
    PRINT “Ranger then”
    PRINT “Sevco now”
    PRINT “disgraced forever”
    LOOP

    • JimBhoy

      @Adam, Mcmf Working in computing for 24 yrs I am impressed with this level of coding… You should have chosen Cobol though much more wordy…
      Maybe Some dynamic SQL…. Select ‘Rangers are no more..’ || ‘ Aye they ur !’ || ‘ Naw theyr no…’ || ‘ Aye they ur! ‘ from dual;

      That’s about my level of coding these days…I leave that to the experts..

      Now anyone who can attempt similar in machine code…. I take my hat off to ya.

      An old (kinda weird) colleague once said to me, I want to work in computer graphics cos I like graphs..

      Or a lass I went to colleague with when we were practicing Fortran and she saved her master program and then applied an update piece calling the program UpMass, not catching on she had another called UpMass2, lots of male furtive sniggering going on in that class.

  27. Adam

    “disgraced forever”

    In your, and loads of people of you ilk, opinion of course.

    The most amazing thing though is that living in England, as i do now, i can honestly swear on my entire families life that i have not spoke with 1 English football fan, with no Rangers or Celtic connections, who share that view.

    Every one of them to a man and woman think its a disgrace as to whats happened to Rangers, and that was even before they knew the Tax case verdict. Now, they simply shake their head in disbelief and think we should sue everyone involved.

    • widowtwankie

      Adam, you live and move and have your being in strange circles. Most of the English people I know in Englandshire don’t care. If it’s not EPL it’s beneath contempt. The ones I’ve specifically spoken to about Rangers are glad they got pumped. Of course, they would all be my family members, so not surprising, really.

      • Adam

        I would agree a lot dont care about the SPL widowtwankie, but if you get talking about football, they inevitably ask what team and they have all heard about Rangers plight. I wouldnt call that strange circles. It is a big story after all.

        And re your family……then no, not surprising.

      • ecojon

        @ widowtwankie

        All your family members must come from Manchester I take it 🙂

    • ecojon

      @ Adam

      Common response that – people shaking their head and saying yea it’s a crying shame and they should be jailed.

      Usually when I observe that reaction I know it’s time for me to shut-up as I’m boring the pants off someone as I get stuck in a self-righteous groove which other people don’t have a scrap of interest in. It’s the same reason people sign petitions they don’t even read or agree with or tell every election canvasser they will definitely vote for their political party.

      You seem to have spent too long with numbers and code and it might be better if you actually start listening to people rather than telling English people with no Rangers or Celtic connection all about the great injustice done to the mighty Rangers by the dastardly Celtic.

      On second thoughts just keep telling your story as you are probably increasing the Celtic support every time you open your mouth – I can just imagine it – An English guy out for a quiet pint in his local and some babbling Scot ranting on about some football club in the lowest tier of Scottish fitba. I’m surprised the landlord hasn’t banned you yet as the place must be getting quieter every week as people stay at home wi the lights oot and the blinds doon 🙂

    • carl 31

      Adam,
      Sign me up to that.
      I, too, think its a disgrace whats happened to Rangers.

    • tykebhoy

      I take it the only place in England you visit is Ranger’s supporters clubs, which are low in custom. As widow twankie points out most in England don’t care about RFC

    • Den

      @Adam,

      You have not “spoke” with one English football fan, with no Rangers or Celtic afiiliation who share that view.

      Have you spoken to none or more than one ?

      These neutrals, if any, think it is a disgrace as to whats happened to Rangers.

      Kind of agree with them on two accounts:

      Rangers are not Disgraced Forever.

      1. Disgraced in the past and now but could redeem themselves
      2. Rangers were so badly managed it was disgraceful.

      Rangers can sue whoever they like. Bottom line is that bad and desperate management did for them as it almost did for Celtic some years ago.

      Unlike you, I am not that amazed at the response, in most places the diplomatic answer to a riled Scotsman is to agree with them.

      I found that I was just invited to less social events !

    • mcfc

      @adam

      I have the exact opposite experience. I’m not a hater, I’m much more fascinated by the finances, politics, social aspects. I occasionally try to engage English football fans – and I mean fans – in conversation about Rangers and they just don’t care much, don’t know much. So I can see how people you talk to would agree with whatever you say in order to politely move the conversation on. “disgraced forever” just batting back your own bias

  28. therealijn

    I don’t get this. “Sue everyone involved”.

    There are laws that seek to prevent and protect business and/or persons from defamatory and/or malicious untrue remarks that are presented by parties and/or persons as factual. If, as an example, the BBC documentary presented a ‘factual account’ of the HMRC case against Rangers, then, as damaging as that documentary may or may not have been, I am struggling to see the case against the BBC as long as it’s account and the evidence (however it was obtained) was factual.

    Am I missing something.

    • tykebhoy

      nae missing a thing. RFC threaten to sue anyone remotely critical of them even if it is the truth. I think the latest twist is that the truth was illegally gained.

  29. Adam

    mcfc – What is your view on the £400m sponsorship deal with Etihad and the £197.5m record loss your club posted recently……the biggest in football history ?

    Any views on the morality and fairness of these ?

    • Adam

      Actually, lets extend that to the rest of the forum. Whats everyones views on MCFC given the strength of feeling about Rangers outspending their income for years ?

      • COYBIG

        @Adam

        I know, Manchester City are spending bucket loads of money, way outseeding their income, just like Rangers 1872-2012 did. It’s as if City think they’re owned by a multi billionare sheikh from Abu Dhabi. Or a business man from Ayrshire, who has friends at BoS.

      • ecojon

        @ Adam

        You seem to think this strength of feeling only came from non-Rangers supporters. I well remember a smallish group of Rangers supporters from fairly early on in the Murray rein being very worried about where the club was going and their inability to get to grips with understanding the way in which the club’s finances were arranged.

        They even took their fight to the agm but their warnings were shouted down and they were derided and isolated. Indeed their concerns were voiced well before any criticism from non-Rangers fans.

        Sadly the bulk of support either didn’t want to know or get involved or just decided to go with the flow and that’s easy to do when the results are good.

        Instead of apparently attempting to deflect an existing thread why don’t you do another guest post on this new subject which is obviously close to your heart and then everyone can join in.

        In fact you might get a better response and more actual information and debate if you took your views direct to Man City fan sites I’m sure they will be well pleased to hear again from Rangers. And as chico has no probs in telling English clubs what he thinks of them I’m sure they will give another Rangers voice a warm welcome.

        Personally, I don’t care what club it is but when they deliberately fail to pay taxes and NI then I will criticise them.

    • Den

      If you can get sponsorship for £400m grab it (on the right terms of course). Try not to blow it on daft purchases, use it to strengthen the business.

      £197.5m loss: now that is a problem. Nobody can sustain big losses like that in the long term, your bankers may get scared, sensible, regulated or whatever. Your Billionaire benefactor may not be that rich, may fall out with his sponsor/ benefactor, may get tired of the game. Whatever the reason: the club must pay its own way in the longer term.

      I grudge Chelsea and Man City any success as it is purely bought by wealthy owners and will end in the destruction of the club when they depart. Man U are at the leading edge of the football debt funding insanity.

      It is fair that when you can’t pay your bills and can’t raise any more money that you are liquidated.

  30. Jake

    I have just read Leggoland for the first time………….surely it has to be satire of the highest order ?

  31. dan

    Was just listening—but had to turn off— Radio Clyde Super Scoreboard. For some perverse reason they’ve got ‘Big’ Derek Johnstone on and he’s just plain awful. I use quotes on the adjective as I once encountered two very, very strange ladies who claimed to have ‘lurved’ their way through the upper echelons of Scottish football’s pro players in the 80’s, and they swore the adjective was misplaced in a ‘big’ way.

    But on a more serious note, ‘Big’ DJ insists that, while factually Oldco are dead, in the minds of ‘The Rangers Family’ they live on, and that ‘fact’ will be celebrated next Saturday at—-whatever the place might be called by then. Now, imagine if a group of old Third Lanark supporters were to convene at what remains of Cathkin Park and insist that their club was alive and kicking. What would be made of such delusional behaviour? Surely the men in white coats would be called in en masse. So what’s the difference in this instance? Crazies are crazies surely?

    • ecojon

      @ Dan

      Nah in the current climate they are Zombies engaged in an eternal search for a new owner 🙂

    • dan

      Retraction! Had niggling doubts about my last post–in terms of both tone and accuracy. So I checked through my old diaries this morn (I hope to publish some day) and not only did I get the wrong Johnstone, I even got the wrong decade (should have been the 70s). He’s still awful on the wireless though. And bye the bye can anyone remember a number one by John Denver called ‘Annie’s Song’? I must have hated it according to my scribblings. Was it really that bad?

  32. Wherediditallgowrong

    Does anyone know what the concensus is on chris graham within the rangers support?

    From reading the rangers standard, he appears paranoid and delusional. He states that he has the best interest of rangers at heart, however, he seems intent on filling the minds of his brainless followers with misinformation designed solely for the purposes of feeding a victim mentality and encouraging them to see justified confrontation at every turn.

    I would be interested to know if they see him as an embarrassment.

    As far as I am aware, he was/is involved in the promotion of the upcoming share issue (not meeting the multitude of wise institutional investors but more a case of encouraging fans to dip into the Christmas fund for £500).

    • Adam

      Im sure i read a couple of his articles over 12 months ago and not thinking much of him. Reading the above on Craig Whyte and what was going on, i can see why i thought that.

  33. Wherediditallgowrong

    @adam

    Rangers spending was always unsustainable and used borrowed money (god, Davenport king put more money into rangers than minty moonbeams did).

    MUFC’s owners are genuinely rich and can afford to splash the cash without fear of debt collectors chapping the door.

    Their only issue is the financial fair play rules courtesy of Platini. However, the stadium naming rights loop-hole is genius/sneaky and will ensure that they are competitive in the transfer market for years to come.

    I often wonder what would have happened to scottish footie had rangers spending not kick started an era of overspending in which only celtic could keep up (without the use of creative tax dodging may I add).

    Would Dundee utd and Aberdeen have remained genuine forces in scottish footie? Would Livi and Dundee have gone into administration? Would Celtic have compiled the Seville team under Martin O’Neill?

    I would love to hear your thoughts.

    • Adam

      There are 2 points on that though. 1. Murray at one stage thought he could afford it all but then the balloon popped. 2. Where is the debt going. If its piling up in the club, which it should be, then if he walks away, gets fed up with his toy, or something worse then Man City are up the creek without a paddle, as are a few others.

      As for how Scottish Football would be, i honestly havent got a clue. I really only think the real trouble kicked in with Advocaat and as you point out, MON was a reaction to that.

      Hard to say to be honest.

      • COYBIG

        @Adam

        No, the 2 points are – 1. Murray thought as long as certian people were at BoS, he would be allowed to borrow money for Rangers, and move the debt somewhere else in his ‘vast empire’. The start of the shit hitting the proverbial fan, was when Llyods took over BoS. And with the way the economy was, get this, this is a good one, they actually wanted Murray to pay back the money. Wow! How dare they! 2. The debt at Man City is covered by Sheikh Mansour. I agree with you tho, if he decided to walk away, then Man City wouldn’t be able to sustain their current business model. But currently he’s still there, so he can spend as much of HIS money on City as he wants.

        O’Neill was a reaction to Advocatt? Celtic brought in Martin O’Neill because they thought he’d be succesful, which he was. I don’t see how Advocatt being Rangers’ manager influenced who Celtic appointed as manager. If Celtic brought in Joe Vodka or Mick Carlsberg, you might have had a smidgen of a point, but then again, they didn’t.

  34. JimBhoy

    @Wherediditallgowrong can i suggest less big fukin names to reply to?

    Actually in reply no idea but great (long name)… wtf is the Rangers standard, Rangers and standard in the same sentence, wow! (one for cam to comment on 🙂 )

    “They see him as an embarassment” being the rangers fans who may blog on this site…I guess you do not work in PR fella..

    thanks for your comment remember this is a site of general discussion fella, i dont have £500 to give away at Xmas but i am not qualified to say to the rangers boys not to…

    Onwards and upwards to all.. except stickle-bricks..!

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