The dangers of blogging and the crazy world of The Old Firm – Guest Post by Adam

Before I start, I would like to take the opportunity to say writing is not my thing.  Give me 50 numbers and ask me to calculate odds, formulas or percentages and I’m up for it, but writing stories or whatever….No chance.

I was asked by Paul to write a guest blog and initially declined but I felt if I didn’t then my blog foe ecojon would chase me and chase me like something from a Duncan Norvelle sketch until I agreed.

So here we go.  It won’t be pretty.

There is no doubt the sensation that is Twitter and Blogging has opened up a new medium for writers to demonstrate their competence and put their work out to the new breed of news hungry citizens to digest in a feeding frenzy.

For the past 2 years, it has been a growing sensation, particularly in Old Firm land, where more and more bloggers have taken to the stage as the months went by.  20-11-12 however was an important turning point in the life of some of these blogs.

20-11-12 was the day the crescendo should have reached its triumphant conclusion.  Rangers should have been found “guilty” (though it never was a guilty or not guilty case) of avoiding tax illegally.  But instead of the ceremonial trombones and bugles playing their merry tunes to the dancing East End of the city, the instrument mouthpieces blocked up, the tunes were flat and the dancers were left looking for a new tune to dance to.
As a numbers man, I’m always interested in statistics so with that in mind, I thought I would look at some interesting statistics on twitter, which always seemed a hotbed of action on all things “Rangers Are Guilty” prior to 20-11-12.

The main hotbed of activity and “discussion” were from the 2 leading writers on the Big tax case, Rangerstaxcase and Phil MacGiollaBhain.  True to form, between them in November, they had racked up 1023 tweets up to and including the day the result was announced (51.2 tweets per day)

In the immediate aftermath of the tax case, following a false start of claiming victory by rangerstaxcase, the tweets have dropped to 82 in the last week (11.7 tweets per day)

A 77% drop in interaction.

However, that only tells a fraction of the story as you would struggle to get onto a second hand if you only count the number of tweets about the tax case in 7 days. The twitters are not tweeting anymore.

Strangely though, the avid viewers of these bloggers and Twitterers (is that a word?) are still working overtime.  The good ship SS Rangers Are Guilty has taken a few holes on board and the “workers” are doing their best to throw the water back in the bad blue sea by proclaiming all sorts of unfounded notions, however it appears as though the Captains have deserted them and are no longer available to steer the ship back to placid green seas.  There is an old proverb that would aptly describe this but I don’t want to be accused of comparing anyone to rodents by using such a tried and tested phrase.

The disappearance or the lack of any fight may be down to a little panic. 

And, this, is where blogging is dangerous, to bring me back to my point.

It is almost daily now we hear of someone getting in trouble due to things said on twitter, Facebook or in Scotland, football forums.  The authorities are taking action more than ever before on these things, so it’s not without its merits that perhaps RTC and Phil Mac have gone quiet. The danger has never been greater and all people should be urged caution before posting online nowadays.

It should be said, for clarity, I was a contributor to RangersTaxCase for a number of months back in 2011 and RTC was nothing other than a supporter of my contribution to the blog which I am thankful for.  In some ways, I am glad he (or she, just in case) has packed everything up and gone on the QT.  I am extremely grateful for some of the information shared on Craig Whyte and I believe that RTC was one of the catalysts for bringing Craig Whyte’s deeds into the public eye, which for me was a good thing.  When added to existing knowledge of my own, it strengthened my opinion on Whyte and also showed I could share the same view and opinion as Celtic fans (on the blog), yet somehow weirdly still be on the end of their ire for reasons only known to them (though I have a theory), whilst hearing some Rangers fans were accusing me of being RTC in disguise. 

Only in Old Firm world would that be the case.

In relation to the Big Tax Case, I was often chastised for beating a particular drum.  There appears to be a sudden increase in the standards of Scottish morality. 

Every new RTC blog would have hundreds of opinions on how morally wrong the whole scheme was and how Rangers and David Murray should pay the price for being “morally reprehensible.” Notwithstanding reminding people they shouldn’t count their chickens before they hatch in relation to any findings, I also often asked, only to be shouted down, where people’s morality ended. 

Was it only if the company had an R, F and C in their name? 

Was it only if the company traded out of Govan?

Or was it in all cases for all men, woman, small or large business in the UK?

I just realised the answer today(see previous blog) as I envisioned the majority of contributors from the RTC blog having a coffee in Starbucks , using their I-phones on the Vodafone network to look up Amazon on Google in the search to buy a book about a team they don’t even support.

Another good example of what being part of the Old Firm world is about in my opinion.

Before I bow out, I would like to test one final phenomenon of Old Firm world.  I call it the “tell enough people made up nonsense and let it become fact” syndrome and I would like to explore this through the blog to try and get an answer to a question that is still unanswered.

I have now heard this on radio as fact.  I have read it on Facebook as fact.  I have read it on Twitter as fact.  On here as fact.  And I have now had 5 emails in the last 24 hours about it from 5 separate associates or friends.

Since 20-11-12, Celtic fans have said Rangers are “still guilty” because they accepted on 35 occasions, the EBT’s were wrong and that Tax was due.  35 was the first number but I have also read/heard 30.  And 31.  And 33. Also 34.

My reading of the entire document is that Rangers conceded, on 5 particular players, they could understand why tax may be due.  Reading between the lines and using the language of the judgement, it appears the administration on these 5 cases was not as it should be, hence the acceptance.  There doesn’t appear to be anything more than that, and the judges seem relaxed in the view that these can be agreed post decision by HMRC and Murray Group.

So after slating everything above, generally giving me a pasting about poor grammar, commas in the wrong place etc, can someone please have the decency to tell where the information came from.  Or can anyone who has previously claimed it simply say “We got it wrong.  It’s nonsense”

Thanks for reading.  The pleasure, I have no doubt, was only mine.

Posted by Adam

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323 Comments

Filed under Blogging, Guest Posts, HMRC v Rangers

323 responses to “The dangers of blogging and the crazy world of The Old Firm – Guest Post by Adam

  1. wherediditallgowrong

    2. Rangers were likea criminal who had was up in court on 100 charges of theft, perverting the course of justice, fraud, etc. They plead guilty to a small number of the offences and due to some very fortunate interpretting of the law, were found not guilty of the majority of the other charges. They are a criminal none the less.

    • cam

      Itallwentwrong when you posted this turkey!Wrong ingredients,no spices,undercooked and poor presentation,,,you’re for the chop!

    • Sorry to correct you but Rangers didn’t contest some cases, some of the cases they did contest theyt were found at fault (some might say guilty) for using tax avoidance measures and in others they were found to have used tax er mitigation measures correctly. End result – they owe tax man for the wee tax case, the whyte year, and some money for the big tax case. HTF can they be painted as not guilty of not paying tax? Seriously?!? As you say, if anyone else was arrested on 100 counts of shop-lifting, were found of 5, not guilty of 95, they are now a convicted shoplifter, shirley?

      I look forward to Cam’s (fan of “modern family”?) erudite response.

      • Adam

        2 things for me.

        1) Can you post evidence of the cases that were not contested.

        2) Your shoplifter analogy doesnt wash. It is not a crime to get tax wrong. For example. Lets say you are a business who is able to reclaim VAT and you submit 100 petrol receipts but on 5 of them you do not notice you have bought a book or a torch for personal use which has added £5 of VAT on. HMRC notice this as an error, which you accept, and you then agree an amount due back to them. You are not a criminal though.

        Reading the decision, the judges couldnt have been more lax about the 5 cases so it appears that they accept it was administrative errors that distinguish them from the rest.

        • What did Al Capone get sent down for? But OK if it is easier to stomach – if someone is accused of cheating on their wife with 100 women, but in fact they only cheated on her with 5 women, have they cheated on their wife or not?

          Its my understanding that not every EBT case was contested, I’m currently on holiday and posting from a bberry – will check the facts on that when I can…

  2. Having read the above replies I would offer the following two quotes on Celtic/Rangers:
    ‘Absence diminishes mediocre passions and increases great ones’
    ‘Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo’
    It does not matter what side you are on, they apply either way.

  3. ecojon

    @ Adam

    Seems that some on TSFM don’t seem to share the same memories as you from your halcyon days on RTC 🙂
    ——————————————————————-
    torrejohnbhoy says:
    Tuesday, November 27, 2012 at 17:31
    A guest blog by an old aquaintance:

    https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/the-dangers-of-blogging-and-the-crazy-world-of-the-old-firm-guest-post-by-adam/
    —————————————————————–
    jonnyod says:
    Tuesday, November 27, 2012 at 18:07

    Oh the irony, IMO there really is some peepil that you could not give a red neck with a blow torch

    • cam

      Eco,this Adam upstart is one tough hombre.You are gonna have to change tactics or disengage.
      His tag partner Alex ,has your mick mcmanus in a Boston crab and i don’t think you can take anymore forearm smashes,,,might be time to shout for your Big Daddy.

    • Adam

      I dont know what TSFM is but even one of your own on the last page said it is not a welcoming kind of place. As for their memories, then im sure if i left and came back on here in 6 months then the likes of yourself, Mick, johnbhoy and the people who press thumbs down on everything i write just because i support Rangers would say similar to what you are reading on this other place. Thats what people with closed minds do after all.

      As for the rest, then there were a fair few positive comments on this blog from people who can remember me and despite a constant clamour to have me removed from RTC for being a troll by some, the more respected members, plus the site owner, would often jump to my defence. I would like to think Paul valued my opinions and posts as well on RTC, even if he didnt always agree with them.

      I know people wont always like my questioning style or sometimes my devils advocate approach, but the one thing no-one can factually deny is that from the outset, my opinions were the complete opposite of the vast majority of Rangers fans at the time and i wasnt frightened to express that, to the point that i alluded to in the article, where some of the RTC contributors were reading Rangers forums and telling me i was being accused of being RTC.

      If people dont remember that, its because they dont want to. Again. Referenced in the article.

      • ecojon

        @ Adam

        I see great hope for your rehabilitation process as you have already written a post which you more or less felt incapable of doing a few short day ago.

        So there is hope for you yet. But always remember that our own rosy recollections of past success might not accord with the views on contemporaries from the period concerned.

        Often when I encounter the same situation I take time to reflect and attempt to unravel whether my judgement has been clouded. Often this is down to no more than the passage of time which can subtly alter memories – sometimes on the plus side but also sometimes on the negative side.

        More often I discover that my own personal being has altered along the road of life experience which actually changes my perspective on what had gone before. It may have nothing to do with duplicity but just the way that an open mind continually develops in changing circumstances.

        Indeed I find a sure indicator of a closed mind in a person who never changes their views – OK some may be accorded the status or principles and won’t change but often people who claim they are making a principled stand are merely trying to disguise their closed mind with no actual point of principle involved.

        Adam I think we have got the message loud and clear that you are not RTC. You certainly don’t write like RTC and you make too many errors for that to be the case. Rangers fans believing that you are RTC says more about these fans than it does about you.

        They seem to react in general like a pack that attacks with either no evidence or the tiniest scrap of it which often laters turns out to be false.
        I try to make my comments based on at least some kind of grounding in fact and where it veers more to conjecture I try to say why I think it might apply and when I remember I insert a Health Warning.

        I cannot speak for RTC but I see no clamour here for you to be removed – if I thought you were a troll pure and simple I wouldn’t waste a nanosecond on communicating with you. You do irritate me with what appears to me to be ‘loaded’ questions but in terms of your opinions you have the same rights as I do to post here and other posters have the right to reply or not as they see fit as long as they remain within Paul’s guidelines.

        This is a rather unique place in cyberspace and I’m sure all people of goodwill wish to see it flourish with open debate taking place with football fans from any team and other posters who don’t have any interest in football whatsoever.

        The undoubted attraction of the Rangers story is the way it has found its way into almost every section of Scottish society and organisations. It truly is a very strong contender for story of the decade because of that and here I go again – it is much bigger than just being about Rangers 🙂

  4. cam

    To assist me in following the Adam v Eco bunfight which can get quite tedious, i shall use image association and to continue my rather contrived culinary theme you will be Keith Floyd and Adam shall be Jamie Oliver.
    You will have one day to serve up a three courser,please go easy on the plonk as i don’t want you making a total Craddock of yourself.
    Similar to the FTT,there shall be three judges but this time the verdict must be accepted in good faith without the petty whinging.
    Maggie can be your Ms Poon,i shall be Mr Mure and the casting vote shall be the body of the blog.
    Get cooking!

  5. JimBhoy

    No Cooking the books Mr Oliver… 🙂

  6. JimBhoy

    Eggs, Bacon and Tomato sandwich with Green Pesto on Whyte bread

  7. JimBhoy

    Octopus a dish best served cold…

  8. JimBhoy

    @Cam Make the bluenoses for Green (with envy)

  9. JimBhoy

    for=go my bad

  10. JimBhoy

    Floyd would have a staple of champ(s) of course

  11. JimBhoy

    Porridge would be on my menu for Whyte and Minty, maybe some bread and water but no cake with a file…. 🙂

  12. Felpan

    For his next post Adam will ask why everyone has stopped speculating in the Olympic medals count!

  13. Actually, I agree with the main sentiment in Adam’s post. That is – innocent until proven guilty. I remember my wife saying how disgusting Dominic Strauss-Khan was, a despicable and evil man for raping that poor maid. I had to remind her that he had not been found guilty of any crime, ergo he is still innocent. This did not go down well with her or my friends! But this is surely the most important priciple in law. We all knew he was a filthy wee perverted sex maniac, but it was never proven that he was guilty. In fact it never even reached the court.
    It’s the same with Rangers. We all know that they have lied, cheated, obfuscated and brought about their own downfall due to profligate spending, but, the FTTT decided in favour of MIH.
    We need to get over it. There is a lot of wishfull thinking about the future. BDO will…the SPL will…FIFA will do something about this. We will have to wait and see.
    Personally, I couldn’t give a toss about the FTTT decision. I do care about the carnage Rangers left behind. I care about the blatant rule breaking to allow them to play in the 4th division. I do care that it shows once again that big business can more or less do what it wants and we the people have to pay for it.
    But lets leave the FTTT behind. It will be up to HMRC what to do with it. It will be up to the SPL to decide on dual contracts etc. I continue to look forward to the gift that keeps on giving. RFC!

    • cam

      Good god,the first part of that post says everything.
      Connecting Rangers to that is some doing,,,,seek help.

    • You sound like harbinger heidi upset, I am pleased.

      • You really have an issue with Dr. poon, Alex. Maybe some deep rooted psychological problems there? Do educated, successful women threaten you? Did all the big girls laugh at you at school because you we’re short? Were you a mommy’s boy? Do you drive a big car to make you feel big even though your feet can’t reach the pedals? I sense a poor working class boy who made good by being clever but who still has a grudge because mummy loved your sister more.
        So, Alex. Do big girls still threaten your fragile ego? Perhaps you are more comfortable in male company? Hence the reason for your disdain for Dr. P.

    • Off topic – but did you ever see the FT’s minute by minute reconstruction of the events in that hotel. I can see why it never made trial. But it was more than enough to knock DSK out of the elections. He’s obviously a s3x freak of the highest order but there was chicanery there that wouldn’t look out of place in an Oceans11 or Mission Impossible script…

  14. JimBhoy

    @Cam no space on the menu for humble pie… Plenty of leaks, some blue cheese and definitely a yorkshire pudding…

  15. JimBhoy

    @Alex Stranger things have happened… All things legal, government and tax are way too variable…. Personally I don’t really have an opinion except to say if there was a way to pay less in tax (government sponsored) I would be exploring that, well actually I would like to think I would but I am a bit lax when it comes to keeping on top of finances.

    HMRC make it hard to claim anything back, I WOULD need to file a tax form each year and provide proof of my pension contributions to claim back contributions taxed at 40%, instead of 25%, it would be as easy for them to make that adjustment on my uncomplicated salary. My wife is a carer in the community and drives all over in her own car to various elderly and infirm, gets paid pretty much minimum wage and HMRC make it virtually impossible for her to claim back fuel expenses.. Both of the situations above (me and missus) effectively mean we don’t bother going through that complicated process.
    Hector keep it simple…. That’s my tuppenceworth 🙂

    • In a serious vein JimBhoy I concur with your every word, my good lady a Headmistress in a primary school is automatically refunded 70p per mile for using her car on school business, yet I know tradesmen who get refused even tool expenses by hector.

      A senior partner in one of our competitors claimed £4,500 for a gold fountain pen, yes you’ve guessed it hector decided it was a legitimate business expense.

      The tax system in this country is archaic and needs bringing into the modern era, even the HMRC inspectors as Mure pointed out resorted to using their own opinions as narrative, not ideal however well intentioned.

      If hector has difficulty understanding and adhering to statute, what chance does Joe Public have.

      If hector finds it difficult to unravel statute people

    • Al ross

      Jim
      I think you have hit the nail very squarely on the head keep it simple. However what tends to be ignored are the large numbers of people in the UK and the Crown Dependencies who make a helluva lot of money in mining our tax system. the folk who dream up the schemes, the tax office staff headhunted by the accountants to ”turn poacher” all of these people and there are a lot of them make very sure that our tax system remains the same complex byzantine mess its always been and why because they are making a lot of money and they have the influence with our ”leaders” to make sure it will be the same gravy train as before. I’d personally scrap the whole system and start again. As regards your other half it just makes my blood boil, whatever happened to the boy David’s much vaunted Big Society ? Right back to revising now exam on Tuesday !

  16. ecojon

    Rangers chief executive Charles Green angry over Tax tribunal timing
    http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/8291869/

    Charles Green has reiterated his frustration at the timing of the verdict of the First Tier Tax Tribunal and its impact on Rangers.
    —————————————————————————————

    I wonder if all the publicity over the FTT Rangers case has had any affect on the AIM Flotation or not. Green has been uncharacteristically quiet for a while and even if I dare use the word almost ‘diplomatic’.

    And interestingly in the Sky article even a change in position slightly on SPL when he states: “If a CVA had gone through we would still be playing in the SPL and perhaps even be playing in Europe”.

    And he finished by saying he just wants to get on with things “get promotion and work our way to the top division – whatever that top division is called.”

    What happens then if it remains called the SPL? Or are you now having to backpeddle friom your earlier pledge of NEVER, NEVER, NEVER in your liftetime will Rangers play in the SPL. Perhaps potentional investors at the AIM investor roadshows you keep talking about have questioned the wisdom of that approach in terms of the profitability of Rangers for investors if they refuse to play in the most financially lucrative football league.

    Yea, seems like there’s a shift underway which I actually applaud although it might prove to be a hard-sell to some Rangers supporters. But you’re the man to do that chico – we’ll just add the broken promise to the list. It isn’t really significant it’s only one of a continually growing number 🙂

  17. rab

    Adam claims not to know what TSFM is.

    I dont believe that,

    the last post by RTC was filled with comments and links relating to starting up a new blog, even if Adam was in space and unable to access the internet he would have accessed RTC on his return and read the comments about starting a new blog to fill RTC’s void. Adam also commented on the about section of RTC after the blog was stopped, so we know he did access the site on his return to internet world.

    His post here is classic Adam. Whataboutery.

    And lets not forget his ‘outing’ of Paul on RTC.

    • Adam

      I can assure you I have no idea what the TSFM is nor have i read it. I dont care if you believe me or not as it wont prove anything.

      As for Pauls “outing”, i had an opinion on something and raised it. From there, Paul contacted me by email and we had an exchange where we agreed on many points and disagreed on others. The end result being that we sorted it out between us to the point where we had various other email exchanges about both the RTC blog and indeed non football issues where Paul gave me some advice, all of which i used his experience on.

      In short, we sorted it. Or at least i believe we sorted it. Im sure if Paul disagrees, he can tell us otherwise.

    • Glenbuck

      Rab, you just reminded me of Adam’s pathetic attack on Paul. For me, there has always been a sense of him playing at being a somewhat enlightened one from the dark side but in reality this appears to be a cover. His acceptance of RTC’s hospitality and support on his blog and then post FTT result, his calls for RTC, essentially, to be arrested sums him up for me. Of course he knows what TSFM is, all prev. on RTC know.

    • cam

      please expand?,,,nowt wrong with an outing,skeletons need their day in the sun too.

  18. Bill

    Excellent post Adam..

  19. GWG

    what is it about the quintessential spiv club that can ONLY attract shysters / con-men / tax dodgers / money launderers and of course the bully boys that still live in day of yore
    looks like “another” shyster is “ready” to invest errrrrr (launder) his ill gotten gains from the public purse.
    From todays quintessential Daily Ranger!! (sorry if already posted)

    “Bus tycoon Sandy Easdale who was jailed over VAT fraud is courted as possible investor at Ibrox “

    • Adam

      @ GWG
      November 28, 2012 at 2:23 pm

      “looks like “another” shyster is “ready” to invest errrrrr (launder) his ill gotten gains from the public purse.”

      The dangers of blogging and the crazy world of The Old Firm – 🙂

      • GWG

        it’s a serious question pal….. the name of Glasgow Ranger (IL) IS now synonymous throughout the world as a football club that is controlled by shysters and men of little morals and in recent time by men of NO morals …. YOU, as a good supporter of your club are not helping restore the clubs credibility by actively supporting those that will take money from any source be it immorally gained or through downright theft… IMHO I’d love to see you and all the supporters take over your club and restore it with credibility, although it will indeed take time probably years to achieve that or are you just content to survive by any means even taken money from deplorable people

    • ecojon

      @ GWG

      Sounds like just the main to provide advice on tax matters – I’m sure he’ll fit in well and will make a formidable duo with Dave King when he comes back on board 🙂

      • Adam

        So i have had a look on TSFM and i think the use of the word “some” was a little disingenuous. When you said “some”, you really meant “one” didnt you. 🙂

        • Why do you give the blow-hard the time of day get a backbone, blank it and the noise will go away, iy is like the wailing of a banshee 😉

          • Adam

            Get a heart alex. Its nearly Christmas. When a wee puppy follows you about everywhere slabbering on your trouser leg, you dont kick it., you try and teach it. 😉

        • I would steer clear of TSFM, Adam, it is a deeply uninviting place.

          I personally think that Rangers Blogger David Leggatt writes utter rubbish. But I don’t think that he should be vilified for his sexuality.

          Yet, yesterday, TSFM carried a post attacking him for being “a poof”. The poster at TSFM was not censured in any way let alone banned from posting such hate material.

          We are deep into the 21st century & for a footie site to carry such anti-gay material is really dismaying. I am astonished that a respectable professional journalist such as Stuart Cosgrove contributes to such a chauvinist blog under his own name. Poor show.

          • cam

            Nothing that Cosgrove does should suprise anyone.A product of poor upbringing.

          • I don’t know if that post is still up (I think not), I am regularly on that site and I didn’t see it – there’s a LOT of posts. So of 5000 or 6000 posts one idiot (of any ilk) undermines the whole site? everyone that posts on it from Cosgrove to decent bluenoses is tarred by that? Phenomenal whataboutery!

            As for Alex’s advice to ignore posts – well in fairness he does practise what he preaches, even if they were direct answers to questions he trolled, sorry posted. If he’s your tag partnber he may just ignore the tag if its a post he can’t handle…

            • jockeybhoy: the “Leggat is a poof” bigot on TSFM is called briggsbhoy.
              I note that today he posts prodigeously without censure.

              The Scottish Football Monitor is therefore a homophobic site.

            • Beautiful.that’s your summation. If the comment still up? Yes or no? Or give me the time/date it was posted and I’ll check.however because there is one “homophobe” (in your words) out of a probably 400 or 500 posters, does that make a site homophobic? I would argue that one fifth of one percent using derogatry language relating to homosexuals is less than that of the general public.

              As an aside, the tartan army of the 70s and early 80s must rank alongside the Taliban as the most homophobi organisation in the world, to a man they sang “we hate jimmy hill, he’s a p**f, he’s a p**f” – or is your faux-outrage (pun intended) because one of your own is getting grief (by which I mean OldGers supporter – I have no interest in your sexual orientation).

            • jockybhoy wrote:
              “As an aside, the tartan army of the 70s and early 80s must rank alongside the Taliban as the most homophobi organisation in the world, to a man they sang “we hate jimmy hill, he’s a p**f, he’s a p**f” – or is your faux-outrage (pun intended) because one of your own is getting grief (by which I mean OldGers supporter – I have no interest in your sexual orientation).”

              I am a bisexual Celtic supporter.

              The Tartan Army’s homophobic chant of the 70s & 80s was deeply offensive & I thought it to be so at the time. Not changed my mind about that.

              Have you?

      • GWG

        there is a secret agenda by HMRC that the real reason they are intent on exposing the Rangers is because of KING!! and the money laundering operation he’s involved in (allegedly)

      • cam

        Please have a good dig through the business methods of some of CFC’s main shareholders before you start the mud slinging.
        Right up your street Eco,,,its all easily accessed by Google.

        • Actually, Cam. I have to agree with you here. Bah Humbug! DD’s business activities at the least, are a bit suspect. Every self made billionaire must have stepped on a few heads, greased a few wheels, have a few skeletons in the cupboard, in short, said billionaire may be a very dodgy character indeed. Allegedly.
          So. Instead of the smart mouthed quips and puns why don’t you actually come up with the goods son? Easily accessed by Google? Why leave it to ecojon. I really do agree with you, so why don’t you actually get up off yer fat erse and enlighten us? As you say, there is plenty of material.

          • cam

            Done it already my old son,the Glackin report,Moriarty Tribunal,the current court case involving Esat and that prosecutor of journalists Mr O Brien.Mr Michael Lowry would probably give Den a glowing testimonial.
            Desmond and his sailing activities with another Chico of the Haughey clan which segways nicely to Wullie “the fridge” Haughey and his ex pal in the GCC, Mr Purcell.
            According to reports there does seem to be an excess of “donating” by these bastions of integrity.The end result of these donations as my old mentor Leggo would say “i couldn’t possibly comment on”.
            Being a pedigree my erse is actually in good nick for my age and i can’t enlighten those who will not suffer an alternate view,15-30 your serve!

            • Cam. You can’t suffer anyone with any view whatsoever. I was actually agreeing with you but I guess you didn’t read that bit. Therefore I am waiting with baited breath for my enlightenment. If you have already done it then please share it. I have found your responses to others on here quite amusing and clever but mostly puerile and insubstantial. But I suspect that that is the extent of your abilities.

    • dan

      Oh fcuk!!!!! I sincerely hope this is true!!!! VAT fraud? Is that what they’re calling it? Doesn’t quite compute!!! Maybe my micro chips have gotten crossed somewhere, or are dodgy or something!!!! Fcuk!!!!! How does the old song go? There may be trouble ahead—–da–da—–da–da–da–dee–da–da–dee–da—so, let’s face the jury and dance!!! Unbefukcinglievable!!!

      (ps I know few if any will get this, but if it comes to pass, you will, you surely will.)

  20. ecojon

    RANGERS FOOTBALL PLC changes name

    Just noticed on Companies House that Rangers Football Plc changed its name on 27 November to: RANGERS INTERNATIONAL FOOTBALL CLUB PLC.

    https://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/11/19/new-rangers-plc-director-linked-to-harper-macleod-exclusive-revelation-by-ecojon/

  21. gordonzola

    this blogging and internet activity is all unimportant

    trying to find out how it went wrong , who did what and when,

    “it was David Murray”
    “it was the Scottish Media”
    “the HMRC are at fault”
    “it was Peter Lawwell”

    I’ll explain

    i was on holiday in Salou (costadorada) in the summer.

    I walked past a pub with Sky Sports being advertised.

    Two games were advertised

    Real Madrid Vs Celtic (in Philadelphia)
    Peterborough Vs Rangers

    this made me stop and think -how could this unbelievable situation have arisen? I couldn’t figure it, something completely improbable had happened, and i couldn’t comprehend it. a series of highly unlikely events had all occurred one after the other in perfect order and it had come to this.

    I looked in the window of the pub there was a scoreline in the live game

    it read

    Peterhead 2 Rangers 1

    I then understood it all

    There is a God

    Subtle is The Lord

  22. lordmac

    Adam its better now to await the next stage, you and i both know this will not affect the New Rangers, and this will run for more than 150 years
    Craig whtye did not bring rangers down, his plan would have worked as you know, but there where a few directors that did not like the new set up so toys where getting threw out the pram indoors, if they all agreed to the sale of the season tickets it would have been plain sailing, the unfortunate thing was, i believe there where not enough room for 4-5 old directors, and fans asking is CRAIG a rangers man and the PR working over time backing DAVIDS new man, with wordings like wealth way of the scale, and. IMO tickitus looks like they belong to Rangers minded guys or A MR Rangers guy. i looks like it was the only way that money could be produced to keep the Lloyd’s bank of there back as i don’t think there are many guys that can produce £18-24 million from there back pocket with out a bank not knowing about it as for what i know of banks they don’t like lending out money if they know you have money tucked away and they aint got hold of it for security, or make you a lesser loan

    • GWG

      good post pal~~~~ but a bit inaccurate
      Whyties plan would have worked except~~~~ he had a total incompetent manager that got them turfed outta Europe… BOTH tournaments !! and saw that money washed away like tears in the rain (what movie did I get that from) hence no Europe money to steady the Titanic as it sank deeper into the ice cold waters of debt….. so the TRUTH of the matter is wee fattie with his too tight waistcoat was indeed the one that sank the ship…… Christ he’s crap~~~ no even a guid manager in the 4th tier of Scottish football and that is indeed a world record

    • JimBhoy

      @Lordmac “His plan would have worked”? The only plan he had was to wash his hands of all the current debt from large and small companies and cease paying this country their necessary funding to keep the wheels on. I would think it safe to assume a lot of these companies were so badly affected that they may have laid people off and may take years to get back on their feet, not to mention what Lizzie Windsor could have funded with her dues… It saddens me to even make that comment. If my club had 2 options, 1 to pay their hefty debts and have to die (skint) and reform on the bottom rung OR 2 to live on for a few months more at the cost of millions to honest society with the hope of sneaking in thru the back door I would go for option 1 every time..
      Purchasing a business with a clear plan to strip it’s assets, move them elsewhere and close that business down at the cost of jobs and with a ton of debts, is an offence that should see them do immediate jail time and everything possible to get every penny back. That to me is pre-meditated theft and the law should have the powers to deal with that. By that token I believe Whyte would have done some bird before now.

      • Adam

        I sincerely hope that is still coming to him Jim.

      • lordmac

        when they used ticketus, as it would have been of no use asking david Murray for the money as he was borrowing of the bank and he could not produce it, and if he did the banks would have not lent money to him as when you borrow your supposed to have none.
        but as we all know the rich don’t put all there money in the bank, and most have safe boxes and home safes, for rainy days,and they use every one else money but there own there was about £5-7 million in the coffers of rangers with sales and such like not forgetting the £24 they borrowed, less the £18 million they paid to Lloyd’s so there was £6 millon of a float to start with to pay wages, but the problem lay with BAIN and co that got every fan annoyed about, why he was freezing back accounts.
        if whyte was as you say coming into shut them down he would have not give the money to Lloyd’s at all but would have shafted tickitus , so in my opinion why did he not do it, was tickutis money from a friend, and why did he have to get it in writing that he was main creditor when the money belonged to the sale of the fans tickets that they hadent been sold as yet
        i can under stand him asking for the money ,and him giving insurances
        to tickitus that they will get there deal. but if he wanted to shut up shop he had the chance to walk away with all they money £24+7= £31 million.and shafting ticutus, and as ticutus are not bothering about it now, they would not have minded if he had done then earlier

        • JimBhoy

          @Lordmac Come on mate, Ticketus cash just got him in the door, he wasn’t fussed who he screwed to get rid of all debt, he knew the club were running at a major unsustainable loss. LLoyds had to get paid or no deal. I believed he banked on ticketus support for a cva or partnership of some sort, they would have had little alternative but to buy into what his plan was to protect their return.. No Tupe, business continuity, he then had the big name players to use to raise funds.. Do the PR spin, float the company walk away, buy another pad in Nice knowing that he was a clever businessman. Shocking!!!

          You been on holiday to the moon mate this subject and in particular Whyte’s now obvious involvement has been flogged to death..

      • Den

        Unfortunately the likes of Whyte and his colleagues have been doing that to businesses with impunity for a long time. Most of the time they do it to small insignificant Companies and it passes unnoticed.

        Rangers were significant so let’s hope that some changes are made to Company Law and enforcement to weed out his kind.

        Disqualification as a Director doesn’t work for the unscupulous, wonder what else could be done.

        • ecojon

          @ Den

          I have come to the conclusion that the whole Companies House set-up is useless in terms of monitoring what directors and companies are up to and it’s also toothless. But this Tory government has no interest in making it harder for their bent mates in the City.

  23. redetin

    Since Craig Whyte is getting some comment above, I’ll just note here that from today, Merchant House Group has cancelled trading on AIM. MHG is 10.6% owned by CW’s Liberty Capital.

    http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/investments/merchant-house-cancels-trading-on-aim-after-funding-failure/1062355.article

  24. Carl 31

    Adam,
    Thanks for posting your very own guest post. There are a few points in there. I’ve replied on each in turn.

    Online avenues of information and opinion circulation have indeed become more common, accessible and utilised. I don’t agree that 20-11-12 was a turning point. There is plenty in the FTT decision that favours the view supported by the evidence available ‘ante mortem’. This view is not, as your East End comment suggests, exclusive to supporters of one other club. That sentence informs more on how you have formed your views. I wonder if you would pass the ‘balanced and fair-minded’ test quoted by Lord Nimmo Smith in his opinion setting out the ground rules for the SPL Independent Commission. I suspect not.

    As a numbers man, you should be aware how weak your statistical example is. What does this number compare with on a like for like basis? How does the number look against other Twitterers or electronic social networks, or indeed any interaction on a Tuesday to a Wednesday? Further, it is a non sequitur that “A 77% drop in interaction” on Twitter is any proper indication of wind leaving any sails or suchlike. Further qualitative info is needed. Do the Twitterers tend to analyse, which requires time for pensiveness, or triumphalise, which requires not much more than an ability to holler (or prestidigitative equivalent upon an enabled electronic device). I’d suggest the group you thumb-nose at fall into the former category.
    Given that, it is not strange that “the avid viewers of these bloggers and Twitterers (is that a word?) are still working overtime”. The good ship SS We Know A Tax Dodge When We See One is sailing parallel to the good ship SS Biggest Story in Scottish Football (I cast my mind back to their launch a few years ago sans monarch or champagne, and recall a number of press organs carrying not a sniff). These vessels have full crew, are more than seaworthy and have plenty of fuel aboard for an anticipated lengthy voyage.

    “It is almost daily now we hear of someone getting in trouble due to things said on twitter, Facebook or in Scotland, football forums.” – You are bang on the money that people get into trouble when they presume that all that they commit to written form comes without consequence, and that the spoken form transfers seamlessly – “all people should be urged caution before posting online nowadays”. However, I guess RTC may have taken all his own posts down to prepare for the release of his book – which very few people would buy if it were all available on a handy website. You could be right with your view, but I doubt it.

    Your point on Scottish morality’s sudden upsurge … it’s as likely as not that this was due to new information in the public domain, i.e. the RTC website as was, but I do commend you on recognising that all of Scotland notes the morality of the situation, not just those sailing in a “green sea”. I’m not big on morality re tax avoidance – the cases that end up at Tribunal are interesting enough to me. The morality ‘area’ is fertile soil for the ‘whatabouters’, which inevitably means a race to the bottom.

    I note the evident whataboutery in your post above. To illustrate:-
    For “Was it only if the company had an R, F and C in their name?” read … whatabout other companies? For “Was it only if the company traded out of Govan?” read … whatabout other places? For “Or was it in all cases for all men, woman, small or large business in the UK?” read … whatabout other business types/sizes?
    Generally, in Old Firm world there is usually a ying for each yang. For your highlighted group that you ‘whatabout’ at, there has been a group who defended, excused, defended some more, that which would not otherwise have been defended – blatant tax-dodgery – were it not for the fact that it was RFC. This is evidenced in Paul’s recent post showing up a duplicitous DR. Further than this – there has been a roar about how hard done by Rangers were to have been under HMRC investigation at all, whilst nigh on wearing the ‘aggressive tax avoidance’ badge with honour! How many posts and comments from such a group basically followed the line ‘what’s legal, is legal – what’s the problem?’ Now the party line seems to be that HMRC caused the demise of the old club by simply doing what they are statutorily required to do.
    Your final point on the ‘35’ has been dealt with – but I would add this … the example wasn’t the best but the phenomenon occurs nevertheless. Splash the ‘not guilty’ about across a number of organs and it takes root in the public consciousness – especially amongst those unaware of the nuances of TC02372.

    I finish with a question. If a burglar stood accused of burgling all 108 houses on my street, but was found to have burgled only 10 (only!), would he be held as being exonerated/vindicated, or would he be villified as a serial burglar and sentenced as such?

    ‘Thanks for reading.’ You are most welcome.

  25. Peter

    Rangers like O J Simpson were found not guilty!

  26. paul , i do not agree with everything you say , but , a least you reply to all posts , so respect when it due , now , as i have said this is just the start i honestly believe laws were broken and minty is a clever , angry , p****d off and very rich man , some people will end up very sorry . regards.

    • dan

      Carson, Minty a very rich man? I’m reminded of a quote by a seriously rich man, one Tiny Rowland, who said that if you wish to know how much a person is worth, look first at what he owes.

  27. ecojon

    @ carson

    Not Paul here. I saw an argument elsewhere that Murray in order to convince a procurator fiscal to act would require to state exactly what personal information of his was ‘obtained’. That seems to make sense that he would need to confirm it was HIS personal tax information and in so doing confirms it is genuine and accurate.

    But exactly what information are we talking about? I haven’t seen anyone identify anything personal and actually have difficulty in thinking what it could be. So if you or anyone else can throw any light on this that would be helpful.

    As to his company information well there will probably be quite a compelling Public Interest defence and it has to be remembered that the Murray Group wasn’t totally exonerated by the FTT majority decision let alone the minority opinion. But no matter the ultimate verdict every cough, spit and fart will be in the public arena and not behind closed-doors like the FTT. Does Murray want to be under that kind of scrutiny – I very much doubt it.

    Crown Office is a political animal and no decisions will be taken until it is clear whether HMRC are appealing to the Upper Tribunal. Then we have the situation of the SPL Commission – if that finds against Rangers I think Scottish Public Opinion might see any attempt to punish journalists that uncovered ‘The Truth’. Personally I think it will be hard for any prosecution to find legs.

    And so what, most journos would give their eye teeth to be banged-up for 30 days for refusing to reveal a source. They would end-up with countless awards and be the go-to person for every whistle-blower in the UK. The organisation they work might get a fine which will be more than covered with all the exclusives they will have.

    Further down the food chain does Murray actually want to look faintly ridiculous by taking on an internet bampot clatterer – I think that could turn him into a laughing stock. I know the first question I would put to him: ‘Mr Murray could you please explain why your sold Rangers to CW for £1 and explain exactly what due diligence you carried out on him which failed to reveal he didn’t have a pot to piss in?’

    You could go on and on with questions to take him apart. There is a helluva big differnce between the MSM fawning over him and somebody taking him apart.’

    Murray isn’t daft he is not going to get down and dirty in an arena which he can’t control. And there is the slight problem aboit where the info actually came from because if it came from a Murray Group company then they are actually legally liable to have kept the material safe so one of his conpany’s could end up facing charges under Data Protection.

    It’s all a good sound-bite for the media but do you actually see Murray going anywhere with it? I really find it difficult to believe and wonder what kind of pressure he would need to be under to force him to embark on what could be a suicide mission.

  28. lordmac

    i aint bothered how he got in, i am more bothered how a financial
    institution in tickutus that was used before whytes time, a good investigative journalist would have found out where the money source was coming from, and who was backing it, when you use a company for the second time there is always a reason, could it be owned by members of RANGERS and they where throwing it some business there way if it was a pension fund there must be a lot of pensioners
    going to get a lot less than they expected when they retire, and don’t know as yet

  29. cam

    A quick reprise of the facts so far

    Whyte is a scumbag
    Minty was right,wrong,right ,wrong,wrong and righteous
    RTC was humiliated
    Daly’s BAFTA is pending
    Incubator man spent too long in there
    Lenny is angry
    I annoy people
    Eco is boring
    Kevin Kyle is overweight
    Chico sells papers
    Paul doesn’t like Rangers
    I annoy people
    12 copies of Downfall help you change a tyre
    Lenny is angry
    bloggers don’t make tax laws
    losing hurts
    Elgin shouldn’t be fined
    Regan hates Leggo
    Orwell prizes suck
    Adam annoys more people than me
    Zombies are cuddly
    Wattie is godlike
    its cold
    Lenny is gonna get angry,,here,,soon
    Sandaza looks more handsome
    WATP
    i just annoyed more people
    absinthe and posting don’t mix
    CFC will do ten in a row
    and counting
    Hearts are going bust
    mick is tripping, big time
    i will get a thumbs down

    pip pip

    • cam

      I think I speak for everyone who visits this blog – it would be a different place without your unique style!

      To be fair, that applies to a good many others too, especially our investigative pie reporter mick!

      And before anyone looks for any message hidden in the above, I am happy for you both to keep on poasting and would miss it if you did not.

      PS – I don’t dislike Rangers. Equally I do not like them.

      However, as for some of their vocal adherents and prolific keyboard warriors …

      Nope, I am above that, no matter how abusive and factually incorrect they are.

      Now – is it true Mr GReen commented on the Tax Case yesterday? If so, a wee blog post might be forthcoming!

      • cam

        Paul

        I’m sure that if i had the pleasure of yours, Eco’s and Micks company on a festive pub crawl, that we would get on like a house on fire and that as you lads put me in a taxi to Coatbridge CSC wearing my Souness Gers top,that you would tell the bhoys to go easy on me.
        I agree on the crazies 100% and salute your good humour.
        i’m off to bed and shall peruse the Chico’s utterings and yours tomorrow

        good night.

      • Project Walliams

        Excellent. I assume he was confirming the date of the publication of the Prospectus – somehow I got confused into thinking it would be out by end of last month. I guess I must have been mistaken.
        On other news – Forbes have just confirmed The Rangers are worth $750million! The NHL The Rangers that is – (Not to be confused with T’rangers $7.5million anyone?)

    • Lord Wobbly

      Cam. You said it yourself. Absinthe and posting don’t mix.

      Tony is a terrific young player with a great future ahead of him. But godlike?

  30. RayCharles

    Cam, your last post is an excellent piece of satire. You really are growing on me.

    It actually has me thinking again about the various discussions I have had over the years about Old Firm “humour” in Glasgow.

    (And by the way Cam, I am veering wildly off topic now and want to make it clear that none of what I am about to say directly relates in any way to any of your posts.)

    Anyway, I recall Rikki Fulton doing a sketch about Rangers not signing Catholics for a Scotch and Wry Hogmanay special and the general public laughed.

    Did this sketch serve to normalise sectarianism by making light of the issue of bigotry or did the satire actually help highlight the ridiculousness of the whole situation and play its own small part in opening the door to modernity?

    And what about some of the jokes many of us hear – or are subjected to, depending on your point of view.

    Is is acceptable to make a joke about children being sexually abused and relate it to Celtic or the Catholic Church?

    Is it acceptable to make a joke about children being sexually abused and relate it to Jimmy Saville?

    I have heard many such jokes.

    Should you condemn all, or some, or none of these?

    Humour is often a subversive tool and by subverting institutions and cultural reality you can help foster positive change.

    But humour can also be a regressive force when it is used to degrade and humiliate specific sections of society.

    My own opinions on these issues are far from fully formulated.

    Just wondering if others have firm lines of demarcation with such issues.

    It’s just that I know a belter of a joke about an Irishman, an Englishman and a Scotsman who were all on Jim’ll Fix It and I’m not sure if I should tell it.

    The last paragraph was satirical, I think.

    • cam

      I remember the Rikki Fulton sketch and i did laugh.I think we all laughed more back then.Its all a deadly serious business now, but i will keep laughing and leave my GP in peace.
      Off colour jokes about certain subjects can be funny dependent on how/who is telling them as Mr Carson would have said,but child abuse is a taboo too far for me.If the Saville allegations are 50% true then laughing whilst denigrating him sounds like good therapy.Gallows humour if you like.
      The Gers have provided a good few laughs over the past year or so and big Kevin Kyle does bring a smile to my face.
      Rikki Fulton’s biography was a good read and Scotland is a poorer place without him.
      Enough of this,,who can i annoy next?

    • ecojon

      @ RayCharles

      You are obviously a man of great insight and perceive that dark forces can come cloaked in many guises their poison to spread. A highly intelligent poster who plays the clown is always one worth the watching IMHO.

      • cam

        Eco, you will be glad to know that i’m now walking around the house a la Darth Vader and if you can guide me towards this highly intelligent poster then this humble clown shall partake of his/her wisdom.

        BTW,Chico’s latest is quite tame by his standard and i don’t know if his sabbatical bodes well or if the bean counters at Ibrox have told him that quite a few of the IPO pledges were the dastardly work of demonic forces.

      • raycharlez

        ecojon, while it is very generous of you to say I am a man of great “insight”, I am compelled on the grounds of honesty to rebut your analysis.

        I can assure you I have no great insight into anything. In fact, the closer I look, the blurrier things always get.

        I wish I had insight. In fact, I can assure you my attempts to discern reality leave me in a permanent state of confusion.

  31. peezandqueues

    Observer @10.41……

    .I was amazed to read your post with the reference to TSFM, Leggo and the alleged slur concerning his sexuality. I have never seen such remarks get past without censure. When I checked for the comment, all I could find was…….

    From TSFM…..”areyouaccusingmeofmendacity says:
    Monday, November 26, 2012 at 22:32

    I’ve heard tell of Leggoland before, but I had a bit of a look tonight. I think someone must be having laugh at Rangers expense – he can’t be for real ,surely? That’s got to be a spoof.”

    Could you direct me to the comment to which you refer. Otherwise, I think you may owe TSFM an apology.

    By the way,I am a first time poster anywhere, long time lurker everywhere!

    • ecojon

      @ peezandqueues

      Well let me congratulate you on your initial post and I hope it will be the first of many 🙂 As to the subject matter you refer to I can’t even find it on here so I am in no position to comment on it.

      Obviously the matter of an individual’s sexuality or absence of it should have no part of any discussions on here and to be fair I have never ever seen a post of this nature on this blog although I sadly have seen many such references on other sites – I should make it clear that I have never seen such a reference on TSFM either.

    • Hi, peezandqueues.

      The homophobic poster who called David Leggat a “poof” was briggsbhoy who continues to post repeatedly on TSFM without any apparent censure.

      The Scottish Football Monitor is a hate site, not just against Rangers but against gay people.

      • peezandqueues

        Hi Observer

        I have now seen a post on TSFM which refers to an earlier comment from briggsbhoy as being homophobic, giving your observation at least some basis in fact. Whilst I apologise for not initially trusting your statement on that, the actual post in question does appear to have been deleted by admin. I believe this shows the unacceptability of the comment by the sites monitors

        Whether briggsbhoy received any censure for that I cannot say but I have read “threats” of posting privileges being withdrawn for unacceptable posts on TSFM.

        I do not see TSFM as being a hate site although I do not question that some hateful posts have been made. i entirely endorse your position an the unacceptability of any post based on hatefulness.

        • ecojon

          @ peezandqueues @ Observer

          Obviously unacceptable posts can be made on any site and it’s a fact of life that virtually no non-commercial site can provide real time monitoring so sometimes it takes time to delete a post.

          Indeed many commercial sites appear to be unable to provide real-time monitoring which truly is unaceptable and I’m afraid the motive is probably based on increasing revenue through ad clicks.

          Persistent offenders should obviously be dealt with by a site’s admin although the persistant have plenty of ways just to come back which can make things difficult and often the bext way is to ignore them as they thrive on creating a flurry of condemnation.

          However the problem in this instance appears, according to the comments made, to lie with another site and it is really there that they should be taken up IMHO.

        • Thank you for your apology.

          My point is a simple one: I was banned from TSFM for being “a bit pro-Rangers sounding in my posts” – actually, I have supported Celtic since the 1970s – whereas an openly homophobic poster such as briggsbhoy is free to post what he wants there.

          That tells you the priorities of The Scottish Football Monitor.

          As a bisexual, practising gay Celtic supporter this worries me: why is a Scottish football site saying “Rangers bad, poofs worse”??

  32. mcfc

    Dear Mr Green,

    Where is the IPO? This five grand is burning a hole in my pocket.

    mcfc

    p.s. nice to see you back in the media again with panto season so close. Is Variety correct in reporting that you have landed the part of Baron Hardup at the Elgin Hippodrome?

    • ecojon

      @ mcfc

      I don’t really know if the IPO is still on track timetable-wise and seem to remember that it would all be done and dusted by mid-December so I suppose he still has time.

      But I would think the Prospectus would need to be published quite soon if the target date is to be achieved.

      Obviously the closer it gets to Xmas the more the pressure on Bears to give it a miss or reduce the amount invested. In fact with chico claiming it will be oversubscribed and with lots of institutional support it may actually make it easier for Bears to keep their hands in their pocket as it seems the club is going to raise the money it needs according to the mouth-music.

      At the end of the day the big question for fans I suppose is what the money raised is going to be spent on and how much will go to the original investors/lenders. There is also the question of the 22+ million paid shares issued to the original consortium. The question there is will the consortiun members keep their shares come the flotation or seel them.

      Apparently many bought at 50p a share and there is talk of the share float price possibly being £1.50 so there is a tidy profit to be had for the original investors which chico has already publicly acknowledged. At the end of the day they put the money in when others didn’t and are entitled to their profit and whether they stay with Rangers or sell, take their profit and move on to a fresh investment opportunity is up to them.

      • mcfc

        @eco

        Recent reports suggest I may be disadvantaged as an investor in TRFC’s eyes having never come to the attention of HMRC and having never enjoyed Her Majesty’s hospitallity. Do you feel I should make best use of the delay by attempting to remedy said disadvantage.

        • ecojon

          @ mcfc

          The big advantage about a criminal record or having come to the attention of Hector is that the authorities know who you are.

          However it would appear that no one yet knows who the mystery oiffshore investors all are and that would apparently include chico as evidenced by the Naqvi affair when the bulti-billionaire was announced as a Rangers investor – possibly main – only to be retracted with a grovelling apology a couple of days later.

          • mcfc

            Sound advice indeed. Most appreciated. I now fear my Hector & Liz approach may appear gauche and perhaps needy. I understand the Sunday Times’ Fake Sheikh may be somewhat under-employed recently. I will attempt to secure his services to establish my bone fides viz-a-vis untold wealth and puzzling Arab interest in profitless Caledonian sporting activities.

  33. cam

    Just a wee reminder lads and lassies,with Paul’s forthcoming literary masterpiece in mind,as Lenny would say we are all playing for a place in the cup final.
    Eco and Mick are shoo ins,with Eco marshalling the defence and Mick playing at no.9.Johnbhoy and Jimbhoy out on the wings as they are both good widemen.I see Carl31 in midfield picking out good passes with Coybig being the enforcer.
    If i get a place on the bench and get the last two mins you can count on me for a spectacular o.g.

    ps,if Eco does the foreword,then its getting used as an axle stand.

  34. JimBhoy

    @Cam WideBhoy plz…

    • ecojon

      @ Jim Bhoy

      Seems from his recent Italian experiences that he will go down well in SFL3.

      Quote from the article is interesting: ‘The stopper was a high earner and Gers boss McCoist recently revealed wages at the Glasgow club currently account for just 26 per cent of turnover’.

      It’ll be interesting to see how Goian increases the % above 26% but that really is tight if it’s true. Was chico not rambling about keeping it down to 33.33%. Of course perhaps its all the extra money coming in from the 500 million fanbase and the billions of moonbeams from media rights.

      I suppose the forthcoming prospectus will provide the figures to demonstrate the accuracy of Ally’s remarkable statement as I think he may well have revealed yet another Rangers World Record 🙂

  35. JimBhoy

    Pity it wasn’t the WONGA stadium that would have been much more relevant 🙂

    http://www.scotzine.com/2012/11/goodbye-ibrox-hello-hello-sports-direct-arena-ibrox/

  36. JimBhoy

    This cannot be true… I AGREE with Kenny McDowall…. Way too much absinthe last night must still be tripping…..

    http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/rangers/exclusive-rangers-coach-kenny-mcdowall-believes-early-exposure-will-108467n.19516345

    Bring on players from 17yrs old, give them a chance… What was the recent debate COLT teams for the bigger teams, how could this be a loser?

    I even agreed with Strachan last night when he said (I paraphrase), teenagers get a shot at first team glory, progress, think they are world beaters, have some success and then come up against some top pros and crash to earth, the crux of his comment was that it was up to the coaches to see that and get them back on track… Spot on comment. Also helps to keep them off buckfast and coke and to stop them fighting their way in and out of nightclubs.. Personally i would also ban them from tattoo parlours..

    Did i mention summer football… Don’t get me started.. League cup semi final with the boys team on Saturday on GRASS ffs..!!

    • ecojon

      @ JimBhoy

      @Did i mention summer football… Don’t get me started.. League cup semi final with the boys team on Saturday on GRASS ffs..!!’

      Great experience for them – toughens them up and turns them into men. If it was good enough for me it’s good enough for them 🙂

      • JimBhoy

        @eco oh the boys are hardy but it’s normally a toss up if the park is playable, we have played on some horrendous parks… Bring back the black/red ash parks.

        • @ JimBhoy

          Not the blaes parks – ah can see ma ma noo wielding the scrubbin brush trying to get tae work oan ma knees 🙂

          Gawd those were the days – that really is when boys were men and totally aff their heid as well. Although we were definitely all boys when the scrubbing brush came out with dire warnings ringing out like: ‘If ah don’t clean it oot ye’ll loose yir leg’ and then the Dettol was poured on.

          Ah if ah could only have ma mammie back 🙂

          • JimBhoy

            @eco I still have a scar on my elbow that has no skin pigment…. Still a few of the parks around, now if the tax man released a little more cash to local authorities they could all be made 4g parks and boys teams would be guaranteed their weekend footie..

  37. Adam

    Still on topic, i see Alex Thomson has made a huge faux-pas on Twitter by allegedly claiming Rangers were guilty of “organised tax-evasion” before deleting then denying it.

    Its a dangerous world out there in cyberspace with so many people watching your every step.

  38. COYBIG

    Since a few people have been discussing Craig Whyte’s involvement in the saga, can anyone answer me this – Why would Ticketus willingly give Whyte millions of pounds, in exchange for the money from 3 years worth of season tickets at Rangers, when at the time, Whyte had no involvement whatsoever with Rangers?

    • Adam

      It would have been held in Escrow, subject to the takeover. Quite similar to a mortgage where the money is held and subject to everything exchanging hands released accordingly to whatever party.

      • COYBIG

        @Adam

        So that would show up in a bank statement then? As we have been told Murry asked to see from Whyte. So then everyone would have known where the money was comming from then. Including Murray. And Whyte still managed to dupe him?

        • Adam

          My understanding is that Whytes solicitors gave Murray a letter months prior that basically confirmed that Whyte had the money available to purchase the club. This is normal and no further evidence is generally required.

          As for duping Murray, thats a difficult one to call. It is my opinion, and i think accepted by all, that Murray was under a lot of pressure to sell the club and that perhaps the due diligence wasnt as vociferous as it would have been in different circumstances, and perhaps understandingly so.

          • JimBhoy

            @Adam I think if we are all honest the banks were the leading force behind any sale… I reckon Murray got one of the cleaners to check the validity of Whyte’s offer inc all the extensive checks involved.. ie, was it a genuine pound coin etc…!!! 🙂

            • Den

              Murray established that Whyte had the money, I think it was in his solicitors hands, in a client account in the name of Whyte’s Company.

              Murray didn’t establish how Whyte came by the funds and most likely didn’t want to know. I believe Martin Bain showed Murray evidence that Whyte was dodgy but he just wanted the company off his hands.

        • @ COYBIG

          One thing to be learnt from this whole fiasco is that anyone who says daft things like – but that’s what normally happens – is well, quite simply, daft.

          When they also state conjecture as fact because – that’s what should have happened – then they are either still daft or possibly devious.

          As to which hat fits Adam we will see as time goes by 🙂

          • Adam

            Not sure why you feel the need to speak in code all the time. Ive been on both sides of the acquisition fence on numerous occasions and on 99% of those occasions a letter of comfort from a qualified solicitors or other suitable qualified profession is sufficient enough purely in relation to the question “are the funds available to complete the purchase”

            If you are not speaking in code about that, then say what you mean and give me a chance to answer you instead of second guessing what rubbish path you are taking things down now. We can see from a few posts above, you are prone to talking utter nonsense and simply making things up that didnt happen.

    • JimBhoy

      @coybig Another discussion thread I can recall from here a few month’s back.. Apparently the answer was They did, Isn’t Greed a sin. Investment managers and hedge fund managers tend to win at any cost, they invest they make money they get a huge bonus for being smarties, they invest they lose the investment they still get paid their hefty sal…

      I am not a financial wizz by any means just the little i have learned since the greedy bankers/brokers brought the world to it’s knees.. I wonder how many lives their Avarice will have inevitably caused.. Greed is indeed a sin.. Anybody loan me a fiver? 🙂

  39. JimBhoy

    @Adam

    a·void/əˈvoid/
    Verb:

    Keep away from or stop oneself from doing (something): “avoid excessive exposure to the sun”.
    Contrive not to meet (someone): “boys lined up to meet Gloria, but avoided her bossy sister”.

    Synonyms:
    evade – shun – eschew – dodge – elude – shirk – escape

    ================================================

    e·vade/iˈvād/
    Verb:

    Escape or avoid, esp. by cleverness or trickery.
    (of an abstract thing) Elude (someone).

    Synonyms:
    elude – avoid – dodge – escape – shun – shirk – eschew

    And google is never wrong.. 🙂

    Maybe they are old French words…

  40. COYBIG

    Is this what people will be watching soon?

    “Hi! Jim White here. I’m at Ibr..i’m at the Sports Direct Arena Dome Building Thingy, for todays big match! It’s the mighty Rangers Intergalactico! Versus East Stirling in SFL Divison 3, Scotland’s top Division! And here with me to watch the game, is none other than Top Totty…no not Natile Sawyer, it’s Neil McCann! Neil, Hi!…”

  41. JimBhoy

    If I may on a footballing note and WRT the Mighty Celts emphatic victory against the young Jambos… Charlie Mulgrew MoM??? Strachan having a laugh there, maybe he is feeling guilty for punting him in the first place… Celtic’s stick out was Effe Ambrose, getting better as the week’s go on… Composure personified…

    • ecojon

      @ JimBhoy

      Excellent kind of result with Spartak coming up that’s for sure. Haven’t seen any of the play or goals yet but sounded good on the steam radio.

  42. Adam

    Excellent post and one with which I agree (mostly) wholeheartedly. I note there are around 300 comments and life it too short to go through them so apologies if someone else has written what I am about to.

    I think you were a little kind on those in Old Firm Land who were certain RFC were ‘guilty’. Their first reaction was utter disbelief. This cannot possibly be true. ‘How could such a bunch of criminals get away with it’ or words to that effect. When they had calmed down a little they looked almost exclusively at the minority opinion and satisfied themselves that RFC were guilty after all and the other 2 members had got it wrong. When this didn’t work (after all 2 is greater than 1) they turned to moral outrage and created a world where tax law was the answer to all the moral questions of the age. And it is a disgrace that ‘millionaire footballers should use such schemes to get even more’. Somehow trying to lead the rest of us to infer that this too was a sign of RFC’s guilt. Then they turned to the minute dissection of the judgement to prove aspects of the case demonstrated RFC’s guilt. Then the discussion turned to HMRC’s appeal. ‘They must appeal – RFC are guilty. Unless it is all a conspiracy.’ By the way, the theme of some unnamed conspiracy is never far below the surface (Green and Whyte, the MSM, HMRC). And running through all of this is the conviction that RFC MUST be guilty.

    Well, they are NOT GUILTY and never were Guilty and never will be Guilty. What they might be found if the appeal, if ever there is one, goes against them is in breach of specific rules/legislation governing TAX. As I, and many others have written, tax legislation is complex. A small army of highly paid people advise clients how to minimise their tax by using ever more complex methods. Some of the methods employed may be appropriate and some may not, but often it takes legal process to determine which. That is the case with the RFC scheme – it has been found to be appropriate for now. So, all those who are convinced of RFC’s guilt, please shut up. In time HMRC will appeal or they won’t. Be patient you may get your way.

    Personally, I have never been bothered about the case other than I didn’t want it to get buried; the RTC website ensured that would not happen. But spending hour after hour examining our collective navels on the subject of Rangers guilt is more than I can stand and I will not be reading any more.

    And, why do it when there is so much to look forward to. The work of BDO is just getting going, The Prospectus will soon be with us. The ongoing Whyte story and the utterances by that nice Mr Green not forgetting Leggo and that Bill chap. To quote again another poster ‘The gift that goes on giving’. So look forward not back and we still have Mr Leggo’s book to drool over.

  43. JimBhoy

    @Violet apparently Leggo’s latest book is 300 pages long but you just need to read the first 50 as the rest is just repetative information.. I think he tried to get it endorsed by Graham Spiers and Mark Daly..

  44. I would willingly endorse it for him.

  45. COYBIG

    @Violet Carson

    Why does the result of the BTC matter? It’s not as if the money was going to be paid. Nothing has changed since the result. Rangers 1872-2012 are still liquidated, dead, gone, not comming back, ever. A Club pretending to be them, to all who are gullible enough to believe, aptly named ‘The Rangers Intergalactico Sports Direct Warriors FC’, is playing it’s ‘Football’ in SFL Division 3, with the Yorkshire Ripoff as it’s CEO. The Club (or is it the holding Company?) is seemingly in the process of having an IPO (Just before Santa does his rounds? Ho! Ho! Ho!). Why? To raise money for working capital. Yes, a Club (or is it one of the 999 simular named Companies Green’s registered?) that’s only a few months old needs a share issue to raise working capital. And yet if you read, listen or watch the Scottish MSM, The Rangers are, as Charlie Sheen would say, Winning!

    Anyway, the decision that matters in the saga is the result of the SPL’s investigation into dual contracts, aka cheating, is yet to be made.

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