Star Chamber Judgement – Prominent Scottish banker cleared of destroying Rangers – Post by Ecojon

In a grotesque throwback to the era of witchcraft trials a Rangers Blog has conducted what amounts to a Star Chamber Inquiry over the guilt or innocence of a Scottish Businessman.

And the crime the Scot stood accused of? ‘That he hounded David Murray into selling Rangers to Craig Whyte’.

But the actual charge cloaks the rampant bigotry involved centering purely on the highly respected businessman being a Celtic supporter with a Catholic-sounding name.

This retired banker has an MBA from the University of Strathclyde, is a Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Bankers in Scotland and a member of the Association of Corporate Treasurers with extensive Board experience in the public, charitable and voluntary sectors.

After a lifetime involved in the banking sector he ended up Executive Director for Lloyds TSB Scotland – responsible for all corporate and commercial banking activities including business banking, asset finance and treasury.

I know it sounds like a farce and the panto season is nigh upon us but don’t laugh because a deadly serious war of intimidation is being played-out in Scotland whilst our national police force and Scottish Government choose to look the other way with politicians worrying about losing votes if they speak-out or take action.

What they fail to realise is that decent ordinary Bears, who just want to see their team play football and get on with their lives, are looking for leadership as well to help them reclaim their club and claw it back from the precipice of hate that it, and Scottish Football, now teeters on.

‘The Banker’ didn’t know he was signing his own arrest warrant back in 2000 when he joined the board of Celtic Trust (www.celtictrust.net).

He wrote, at the time, that he was born in London Road in the shadow of Parkhead and had two  ‘Celtic mad’ kids and expressed  hope his 30 years in banking would assist the trust to combine and increase Celtic fan shareholding to give supporters a say in running the club. He added that he was responsible for all his bank’s activity with Scottish businesses.

Little did this man, from a humble background who made a success of life and assisted voluntary causes, realise that those words would come back to haunt him and lead to him being smeared over various Rangers Blogs and reviled in hundreds of postings by Rangers fans as a crazed uber-Celtic supporter at the heart of a financial plot to destroy Rangers.

I have no intention in refuting the nonsense allegations lodged against ‘The Banker’ as they do not stand-up to one second of scrutiny but in common with the many other ‘targets’ on the receiving end of hatred and intimidation from Rangers fans I can only sympathise at the pressure, stress and fear that this whole dreadful experience has wrought on ‘The Banker’ and his family.

The Copland Road Organisation (CRO) was one of the Rangers Blogs that attacked ‘The Banker’ on a number of occasions and even carried photographs of him reminiscent of the disgraceful identity demands of Ally McCoist and subsequent intimidation this generated towards a top Scottish QC as revealed by Channel 4.

With the CRO continuing its totally unfounded allegations and announcing it was ‘throwing down the gauntlet’ the ‘The Banker’ was left with no alternative but to turn to a prominent Rangers-supporting friend who suggested that he should hand himself over for investigation by the CRO in a bid to establish his guilt or innocence. To quell his fear and trepidation the friend agreed to accompany ‘The Banker’ to plead for his life back.

What is extremely telling about this decision is that someone who could be regarded as a scion of the Scottish Business Community saw no effective legal redress either through civil action or reporting the matter to the police.

CRO blogger Bill McMurdo Jnr stated: ‘Fingers were pointed at (The Banker) by Rangers bloggers and forums. As a man who prides himself on his professionalism, he found the insinuations and accusations hurtful.

‘At CRO we joined in and highlighted (The Banker) as a person of interest to the Rangers support. I pointed out to (The Banker) that his profile as a prominent Celtic supporter gave legitimacy to suspicions among Rangers fans at a very sensitive time.

‘We believe at CRO that when we get it wrong we should own up. Well, we didn’t get it wrong; we got it right. Right in the sense that (The Banker) should be under the spotlight and should give an account of himself. He has done just that to our satisfaction’.

After the investigation, at which the Banker was accompanied by his Rangers supporting friend, the young McMurdo in passing judgement declared him innocent of the charge and concluded: ‘All our investigations point to this pressure on Rangers not being something undertaken by Lloyds TSB due to the footballing allegiances of any member of staff but due to cold business facts’.

‘During the meeting I was shown incontrovertible evidence from Lloyds TSB that (The Banker) had no direct involvement with the Rangers FC account in any way. He actually worked for a separate bank in the group.

‘In a nutshell, (The Banker) was NOT responsible for exerting any pressure on Rangers during the last days of the Murray regime because he had no dealings with the club.

‘The Banker is indeed a Celtic fan but has not actively followed the club for a while. Although he was a founding member of the Celtic Trust, he resigned from it some years back’.

Well that is extremely generous of you Mr McMurdo just a pity that you couldn’t actually accept that you got this totally wrong on the basis of not having one scrap of evidence and repeatedly attacked the good name of a totally innocent person and I see no remorse for the actions that yourself and some other Rangers supporters have subjected ‘The Banker’ and his family to.

For goodness sake man don’t you see that your actions are on a par with the worst of dictatorships which pluck citizens of the street on a whim or because they have received a false anonymous whisper about them?

If you look back at the original source of all this then the false conclusions made then, blinded by obsession, should have alerted you to carefully check not only the source but also what had changed career-wise in the intervening decade.

However, I will say that I can but admire the limited stance you have taken as you know full well that some of your support find it much easier to accept a Catholic Conspiracy, or even the Bankers, destroyed Rangers rather than the enemy within the gates of Ibrox in the shape of David Murray and his reckless overspending.

So there is some hope for you in the future and that can only be for the long-term good of Rangers and Scottish Football and hopefully to strengthen the resolve of decent Bears who love their football and just want to follow their club. That is what the majority of decent football supporters from every club want to do.

But those who blog and comment on the internet have added and serious responsibilities to check facts and not make totally groundless accusations that can blight the life of innocent people who haven’t a single blemish against their character or professionalism.

‘The Banker’ is left with all the hurtful and totally false accusations left forever floating in cyberland, waiting to horribly invade his personal life yet again, just a Google click away.

—————————————————————————-

Addendum

I have removed the name of the falsely accused and replaced it with ‘The Banker’ as I have no wish to add to the stress already suffered. I just wonder what would happen to any Celtic-minded individual who doesn’t have a decent Rangers-supporting pal for support when facing this new Star Chamber?

Posted by Ecojon

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68 Comments

Filed under Guest Posts, Rangers

68 responses to “Star Chamber Judgement – Prominent Scottish banker cleared of destroying Rangers – Post by Ecojon

  1. JimBhoy

    i love the Celts !!! How awesome where the Green Brigade tonight

    • ecojon

      @ JimBhoy

      I have to admit there are things I disagree with the GB on but tonight was unreal – their display was brilliant and all I can say to them is HH.

      Ended up with two German sports journos who had been at the game and have covered all of Europe and they said that Celtic Park was awesome and that they ain’t surprised that Barca were beaten because they have never seen a support like ours and interestingly they said what an advert for Scottish Football.

      When I had to leave they were well settled in and learning and singing Celtic songs as the pub was going into lockdown mode.

      But I really am going to have a word with Lennon and make clear that all this defensive crap is not the Celtic Way – I mean we got two goals with 10% possession but if we played like Barca and had 90% possession just think how many goals we could have scored 🙂 🙂

      • ecojon

        Thank you for the TD as I know how badly you must be hurting and the more TDs I get the happier I will be 🙂 125 years and still making a glorious and untainted history and all decent Scots will be happy tonight that Scottish Football is being lauded all over Europe and indeed the World.

        I reckon by tomorrow chico will abandon Ibrox and try and buy Celtic but he will find our history, unlike Rangers, is worth more that £1 and the fans have got brains and use them 🙂

      • ecojon

        @’ve just realised that I missed out a wee bit of the story explaining the background to the Court of Star Chamber culled from wikipedia.

        Under Cardinal Wolsey’s and Thomas Cranmer’s leadership the Star Chamber court was used as a political weapon to attack opponents of King Henry VIII Court with sessions in secret, with no indictments, no right of appeal, no juries, and no witnesses.

        Over time the Star Chambers power grew and it could inflict any punishment short of death which included being sent to the pillory, being whipped and having ears cut-off. It then summoned juries who returned verdicts disagreeable to the government, imposed ruinous fines and jailed them as Charles I battled to retain power and keep his head.

        In 1641 the Long Parliament was incensed by the severe treatment of religious dissenters and abolished the Star Chamber with the Habeas Corpus Act of Parliament.

        The court is remembered to this day through the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution which lets a defendant “plead the Fifth” to prevent self-incrimination with the motivating force behind this being the historical abuses of the Star Chamber.

    • Maggie

      @JimBhoy et al
      Awesome doesn’t even begin to cover it,I have never seen anything
      like it,at Celtic park or anywhere else, words fail me.I could feel the atmosphere through the telly.
      I defy ANY team in the world to even come close to us for passion and love for our club,even the mighty Barcelona.
      I had a lump in my throat when I saw the display,especially for our dear departed bhoys & ghirls.125 years worth of ancestors were with us last night for sure.
      What a Birthday present from Lenny and the Bhoys.

      • JohnBhoy

        @Maggie

        A field of dreams. The ghosts of the Celtic greats were standing there with us – Johnny Thomson, McGrory, Jinky, Big Jock, T Burns… God bless them.

  2. Den

    Someone actually did submit themselves to a kangaroo court to clear himself of charges that appear to be;

    Being or sounding like a Roman Catholic, or at least of Irish Republic origin, and being in a senior banking position when David Murray’s illusion had to be handed over to an asset stripper.

    I am lazy could you direct me to the source.

    • ecojon

      @ Den

      Sorry we don’t do lazy on this Blog. I personally always hope that in anything I write that people will search and check and if I have got something wrong that they will let me know. Or, even better, that they will add something new or contribute to the debate.

      So as to the source – use Google and work backwards and I’m sure you will find it. If that is too onerous then contact Mr McMurdo Jnr and ask him who provided the codswallop that he used to attack a totally innocent person and make his life hell. While you are at it perhaps you can ask him why he didn’t check the nonsense as a few seconds could have shown it to be rubbish.

      You could also ask if he has any remorse about the pain, suffering and fear that he has caused by his lack of professionalism and also ask him whether his zeal for a cause led him into a blind alley.

      Quite frankly I don’t care what his answers are – I judge him on his actions and am only glad that he isn’t a journalist and viewing his output would reckon that he has little possibility of ever becoming one although I suppose PR might be an avenue which would suit his particular talents for a limited and decreasing audience.

  3. Maggie

    @ecojon
    Contgrats again eco.Great work.
    How do you think we might find out who else is on
    Mc Murdo jnr’s infamous “person of interest” list?

    • ecojon

      @maggie

      Tbh I get a bit blase about the constant backdrop of threats from the Darkside but I saw it again more clearly through your eyes of indignation and realised that there is no way that in 2012 in a modern Scotland that we should put up with this crap.

    • ecojon

      @ maggie

      Dead easy to spot the ‘person of interest’ list.

      Just open the phone book and note any Catholic or Irish sounding names 🙂

  4. Douglas Ferns

    Why does Facebook not allow this post to be shared?

  5. martin c

    Another fine piece ecojohn.

    A common theme which runs through many of The Rangers blogs’ threads is that there is no evidence of intimidation which has been evident before and after the demise of oldco/newco? Oh the irony.

    • ecojon

      @ martin c

      The reason there is no evidence is that 1) most people are too frightened to speak-out and I don’t blame them. 2) It would appear that the police and Scottish Government have buried their heads in the sand and don’t want to know.

      • Budweiser

        @ Ecojon

        Even the supposedly ‘reasonable’ Rangers Standard touts the “where is the evidence” line in the mark daly, alex thomson,raith rovers and allan QC.allegations of threats and intimidation. Although i don’t consider ally mc coist to be per se anti-catholic, he is obviously steeped in the esotoric ways of the ibrox clan. IMHO It was his ” we demand to know the names” statement which initially gave the green light[sic] to the ‘Take the fight to the enemy’ brigade. Now it seems to be the norm rather than an aberration as we could see quite clearly from BB’s comments on a previous post.
        ps. Incredible result for celtic tonight.-Many congrats- they did Scotland proud -some armaggedon eh?

        • ecojon

          @ Budweiser

          Yea first things first – a night to remember and to tell children and grandchildren about and everyone else 🙂

          I think the interesting thing with this case is that all the evidence comes from a Rangers blogger with an impeccable pedigree – in Rangers’ eyes – through his father.

          I actually spoke to some people tonight who were strangers as I was out of my normal orbit – after a few pints and chat they loosened up and genuinely bemoaned the future of Rangers and the people now supporting it. These were people living in a SFL3 team area and were now questioning the people who had arrived in their community as Rangers supporters which they were but now seem unsure about it..

          I think there are lots of different dynamics going on and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out..

          • Maggie

            @ecojon,
            Worth noting eco that the club and supporters win admiration and make friends everywhere we go regardless of whether we win lose or draw.
            Seville …… not one single arrest.
            I was in Milan a few years ago for a game against AC and the elegant and very upmarket Galleria Vittorio Emanuele indoor shopping and restaurant area was full to bursting with the bhoys milling around, sitting
            outside one of the most expensive restaurants in the city,browsing in Gucci and Prada while a group of Carabinieri stood in the centre of the
            Galleria smiling,laughing and chatting to everyone in green and white.
            At no time did they even approach anyone with the objective of moving them on from anywhere. One carabiniere I spoke to said that everyone was here to enjoy themselves,no one was causing any trouble,no Italian had complained to them about the number of fans around and anyway
            we love the Glasgow Celtic and “I Scozzese.”He did however chide me for not wearing a football top or scarf. 🙂
            We’ve all got similar stories of Celts at home and abroad,but it is one of the defining characteristics of our supporters and our club that we can be trusted to do ourselves proud wherever we are.
            Compare and contrast with that other Glasgow club, now dead, but won’t lie down. Don’t mean Partick Thistle btw.
            On Sky Sports Gary Neville and Jamie Redknapp could not have been more effusive in their praise for the team,for Neil Lennon,for the fans and the display by the GB. John Collins of course was “over the moon,”
            How did I know this ? He smiled twice 🙂 Sorry John,but you’re not really the ebullient type are you,tho we do love you as one of the great Celts.
            The icing on the cake for me was seeing Rod Stewart in tears!
            What a guy! What a legend! Just like his team.Hail Hail.

  6. Ruckcroft7

    “The truth never damages a cause that is just” Ghandi said that apparently… Just sayying

  7. Fraser

    Still, never mind Celtic beating Barcelona, The Daily Express gives voice to that sage Sandy Jardine’s firm belief that Rangers’ achievements are by far the greater: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/356807

    Well, until a few of those league championships are redistributed at least, eh Sandy?

    • ecojon

      I think I can do no better than repear the words that Jardine uiiered in the article: ‘maybe I’m biased’.

      Well Sandy I think that’s the first time I’ve ever agreed with you – What’s that? Nothing you say! And here was me thinking I heard the strains of Zadoc the Priest. No, not from Ibrox Sandy, get a grip of yourself man 🙂

    • willmacufree

      How many titles, tainted or otherwise, would those in the know at RFC/Sevco/TRFC etc. trade for a European Cup/Champions’ (??) League?
      All of them to judge by the desperate measures employed which brought about the end of the Club PLC.

    • Ernesider

      “Well he would say that, wouldn’t he”?
      Mandy Rice-Davies

  8. JimBhoy

    Paul, this story just re-affirm what most people in Scottish society know but are afraid to mention incase they are targetted, McMurdo, Leggo and the likes should not have a voice. How can some daft wee boy make a stupid comment on a FB page and be held accountable when neanderthals like those two and more get off scot free for far worse.

    The end is near for this lot and all who believe they are of a higher society. These men are power-mongers they feed of it but the tide is turning.

    Everyone in this small country has a social responsibility to be good, honest citizens with something positive to bring to the table. All others who wish to be excluded from this (normal open society) will soon find themselves in the minority social underbelly..!!

    • ecojon

      @ JimBhoy

      I’ve actually realised an interesting side-effect which I didn’t spot when I wrote this piece.

      We all know that crazed obsessives have desperately tried to shift the blame for Rangers demise onto a gigantic world-wide Papal Conspiracy.

      But this has now been blown out of the water and not through the hand of a Celtic supporter, but by one ot their own admitting that ‘The Banker’ has been given a clean bill of health and cleared of any bias against Rangers.

      ‘The Banker’ was made the keystone to just about every Darkside conspiracy theory to prove that Rangers hadn’t failed but had been destroyed by a cabal of Celtic-supporting bankers who controlled the Ibrox purse strings.

      But with his Not Guilty verdict – even though a Star Court travesty – all the complex webs of conspiracy theories hatched by sick minds have been destroyed at one stroke. They now lie in tatters and all decent Bears now know they were fed horse manure by people with deadly agendas which have nothing to do with playing football.

  9. JimBhoy

    @ecojon sorry mate I missed that you wrote this, excellent piece..

  10. JimBhoy

    @ecojon I would love to think that your summary was actually true, the other way to look at it is these people have the fear power so much so that if you are outed by them as a threat to rangers or their protestant beliefs (or in some cases ANY celtic/papal association) you then feel the necessity to HAVE to put your case across to that mad faction to defend yourself in fear of harm to yourself or family… Thus empowering them somewhat and making others believe this is a credible inhouse justice system with clout. This is where the police have to get involved. A threat is a threat whether dealt by or instigated by a third party. The police of late have been busy giving advice to prominent figures with respect to their well being.

    • ecojon

      @ JimBhoy

      I take your point about the dichotomy involved and we should always remember that members of the ‘Star Court’ could argue that The Banker appeared of his own volition and free will.

      Of course, that is an absolute nonsense, the gauntlet was thrown-down and ‘The Banker’ was left with the terrible Damocles Sword dilemma. If he kept trying to ignore it would even more dire action be taken against him or his family.

      He had no choice but to throw himself on the dubious mercy of a hate system mechanism that would not be allowed to operate nor need to in a decent society.

      It would be hard to understand the pressures on the public and private life that these totally unfounded sectarian smears had on ‘The Banker’. He is someone who actually is relatively well known through some of his public activities and therefore didn’t have the luxury of just keeping his head down and hoping it would go away.

      The attacks continued as the obsessive fantasists wove ever more complex fantasies based on nothing more than that he was a Celtic supporter. And he was painted, not as the ordinary fan that he actually is, but as a mad uber-zealot Celtic fan hell-bent on a personal crusade to cripple Rangers financially.

      And the big problem, mainly because of the deep divisions which have riven the Rangers’ support, is that some groups don’t accept the truth that ‘The Banker’ is innocent of any of the garbage spouted against him so he has to continue to live under this shadow.

      And all we hear is silence from the Scottish Government and no action from our shiny new Scottish Police Force. People have a right to be protected against this kind of untrue, insiduous and non-stop campaign of villification.

  11. JimBhoy

    This is what it is all about….. RESPECT!!! the UEFA Mantra..!! All clubs should aspire to this different class support and respect of great footballing talent.

    http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1218239?cc=5739#

  12. robertg

    Interesting that there never seems to be any notion that they should be hauling up the fine upstanding Presbyterians who actually lent the money in the first place, just hunting for a dubiously named (in their opinion) scapegoat who was around when the debt was called in.

    deadco benefitted at a time when there was lots of money swilling around (Celtic could have done the same things but chose not to, or certainly not on anything approximating to the scale). They have now suffered at a point when the liquidity dried up (for banks, for boss-eyed thousandaires, for HMRC) and people outside of their sphere of influence started paying attention.

    Think last night was definitely a top 3 for atmosphere: 6-2 game, 3-0 funeral celebration at the end of last season, and that.

    Well done Green Brigade and all the fans who were there!

  13. Violet Carson

    Ecojon

    Excellent piece, but I am not sure he is a ‘scion’ of anything, other than maybe his parents. Sorry!

    • ecojon

      @ Violet Carson

      I did not use the term ‘scion’ in the terms of a son or daughter but as in ‘lineal descendant’ of a wealthy, aristocratic, or influential family loosely intermingled with another meaning of the word which is ‘heir’ as in he/she was scion of a business empire.

      In other words what I was trying to convey was that, despite humble beginnings, he has risen to form a clear connection with the Scottish business community.

      If that is too difficult to follow I am sorry but I don’t do dumming-down as I love to play with language and I was actually quite pleased with my use of ‘scion’ which I believe to be acceptable. Indeed if I had had any doubts I would not have used it in the context that I did.

      • Maggie

        @ ecojon re scion
        Sorry eco,have to come down on the side of Violet here.
        Without wishing to get into Semantics,scion can only be used to mean a son or daughter or lineal descendant….. and as you correctly pointed out.The Banker isn’t a scion of a wealthy or influential family who got a leg up in business due to nepotism,but someone who succeeded on his own merits and rose to a position of influence within his chosen field and in society,the very antithesis of scion.
        He could only be described as a scion if he came from generations of wealthy influential bankers and then carried on in that tradition. A better word to convey your meaning in this case would have been doyen of the business community IMHO.
        Apologies if I’m being overly pedantic here, but I too have a love of language and a professional qualification to prove my competence with it.
        I feel you were a bit patronising to Violet in your last paragraph and no matter how you try to twist it to fit (maybe read your first paragraph again,a little contradictory ) I’m sorry eco,it is an incorrect usage.
        I did notice the error on first reading your article but would not have mentioned it had I not read your response to Violet.
        Hope we’re still friends as you know I admire your work. 🙂

        • ecojon

          @ Maggie

          I have absolutely no problem with criticism as I have always regarded myself as a work in process just like any language which isn’t dead 🙂

          However, I have obviously failed in the construction of the concept I was attempting as I can assure you that I did not intend to portray the ‘The Banker’ as a doyen. Indeed quite the opposite as he is not the leader of of the Business Community in Scotland and I had no intention of implying that.

          What I was trying to show, through a rehearsal of his various academic and professional qualifications as well as job positions, is that he had a direct link to the Scottish business community and was therefore an unlikely candidate to be a crazed football supporter and the type to commit professional suicide.

          I believe that Violet and now yourself have become tied-up in the belief that to be a ‘scion’ requires a blood line to exist. IMHO it doesn’t and I also believe that it would be pedantic to argue that the term ‘family’ could not readily be used to describe the Scottish Business Community.

          Indeed you state: ‘Without wishing to get into Semantics, scion can only be used to mean a son or daughter or lineal descendant’. I am afraid you are wrong in that and have ignored my comment about ‘heir’ in my reply to Violet. There is no requirement for lineal descent or bloodline to exist for anyone to be an heir.

          I am also a little disappointed with your comment: ‘No matter how you try to twist it to fit’. Not the way I conduct myself as I have no problem in admitting my mistakes of which there are many. However, in this case I have listened to what both Violet and yourself have said and I’ve tried to explain my reasoning which you are both obviously at liberty to reject. However I believe your arguments to be flawed and will stick with my original position.

          Not that this is too important but I have never considered the term ‘scion’ to be a pejorative one although I detect an undertone of this in your comments.

          I do believe that to only be picked-up in one word on a reasonable length internet article must be some kind of record but I do promise I will try to do better in future 🙂

          And as for Violet I apologise if she thinks I was referring to her when mentioning ‘dumming-down’ as it would actually be the last thing I would need to do for her or yourself for that matter. Btw if you show me your certificates I’ll show you mine 🙂

      • Violet Carson

        Normally, I wouldn’t bother with such trivialities as your use of scion, but I am bored and have just been to the dentist.

        You response to me is both wrong and internally contradictory. The word scion might mean heir and it certainly means descended from or a cutting of (in plants). Both usages suggest that scion means something that is descended from or is an inheriting entity of that which is the parent or greater entity. ‘The Banker’ you suggest is a ‘scion of the Scottish Business Community’. My contention is that he might be a scion of a great banking family (he isn’t I believe), but he cannot be the heir or scion of a business community, which suggests that one day all this might be his. What he is, and I applaud him, is a person who has risen from humble beginnings to be a ‘pillar’, a ‘leader of’ a ‘member’ of the SBC.

        You say that you used it in the sense of ‘heir’, but then say that he has risen to form a ‘clear connection’ or put it another way has joined, Scion suggests splitting away and heir does not suggest ‘clear connection’.

        I also resent the slightly patronising ‘If that is too difficult to follow’. True, you expressed sorrow, but the point was made. As I think you may be gathering by now, I did not find it too difficult to follow. I just thought it was wrong and still do.

        If I may concatenate, you ask below to what I was referring when I commented on discussing the merits of football on this site. I was referring to many of the posts above, which were mainly about Celtic’s great victory last night. My point was that there are dozens of sites where the merits of a great game can be commented on or discussed. This site is for me and many others about the law. Its major critics rant that it is a medium for the worst of Celtic fans to ‘put the boot into Rangers’. Posting partizan football comments on this site only encourages them in their delusion.

        On this site some of us declare our allegiance (I have just ‘come out’ as a Hearts supporter) and some of us do not. But, so far, what I have not read is specific posts about a particular game no matter how great the result. I was merely saying that I would like to keep it that way otherwise we risk me ranting on about Hearts beating Celtic (if that ever happens) with all the consequences one reads in, say, the Scotsman comments columns.

        And, lastly I am not sure you know me well enough to comment (patronise) that it is ‘unlike me’.

        All this said, I think you might have missed that I liked your article. I look forward to the errors of my ways being explained.

        • Dear Violet,

          Thanks for the comments. As ecojon said I moderate the site to my own quirky standards.

          There is nothing wrong with a mention of what is the best result for a Scottish team in the last twenty years, with the exception of course of the Guy Fawkes Day Massacre last year.

          In case anyone needs reminding of the game I refer to, it was of course the mighty Rovers crushing Airdie United (who are not Airdrieonians but are treated by everyone as if they are) by seven goals to two.

          Celtic may have beaten the pride of Europe last night, but just over a year ago, the Rovers destroyed the third best team in Lanarkshire.

          I must confess I was glued to the radio for the last ten minutes of the game last night and anyone I have been in touh with who was there has described it as an indescribable night.

          So, hurrah for Scottish football, at least for one night, and maybe, in a blog which I know might seem gloomy at times, except of course when mick cheers us all up, a cause for optimism about the future of the sport here.

          And shortly, you will be glad to know, back to the forensic debunking of Sevconian tosh!

          Paul

          • ecojon

            @ Paul

            I do hope that some of our jamtarts do some forensic debunking as it might be interesting at the end of the day to see exactly the moves made and where they match or differ from the Rangers situation.

        • Maggie

          @Violet Carson
          I’m sorry for the trouble your club finds itself in.
          As a fan of any club we’re all hostages to whomever owns or runs
          that club.It seems to me that you’ve been badly served by Vladimir Romanov.I read your comments on Paul’s post “Hearts a Call to Arms”
          with astonishment re Romanov’s treatment of the basketball team he owned and,as you say,I did indeed note the similarities to how he behaved at Hearts. Trying times for the Jam Tarts,we were mighty
          fortunate with Fergus Mc Cann, a scion of nothing much,but a legend to all those who support and love their club.

        • ecojon

          @ Violet Carson

          I most certainly ain’t giving you permission to ‘concatenate’ as I have only a hazy idea what it means.

          You will see that I have done another reply to Maggie and if you read that and wish to comment that then I will try and answer ny points you raise.

          You state: ‘Its major critics rant that it is a medium for the worst of Celtic fans to ‘put the boot into Rangers’. Posting partizan football comments on this site only encourages them in their delusion’.

          Really I have no interest in the ‘major critics’ unless they come here and attempt to debate in an intelligent structured way and I do not converse with ranters as I have better things to do.

          IMHO it doesn’t matter what any Scottish Football supporter, from any club, posts it will have no effect on the delusion of a section of the Rangers support as that delusion is total so why should I or anyone else constrain our comments as long as they remain relatively moderate?

          I don’t think you do see match reports on here because most fans do go to other sites for that so it is highly unlikely that this will be a problem. But the site is most definitely not constrained to legal matters although most of the topics discussed do have an element of legal issues contained in them. But purely on the law then I am long past the time in my life when law reports turn me on.

          I am also a bit bemused by your take on my ‘patronising’ you because of my comment that it was ‘unlike you’. That reference is based on my perception of your posts and the persona that I judge to have written them always accepting that you are being relatively truthful in your comments. I felt I knew you to an extent where I was surprised at what you said – that was not meant to be patronising – just a statement of fact as I saw it.

          However, it would appear that perhaps I do not know your posting persona well enough to make any comment and will refrain from doing so in future as I have no wish to upset or inadvertantly patronise you.

  14. Violet Carson

    Also, when did this blog become a forum for discussing the football merits of Celtic or any other team. Yes, it was a great result, but please post your thoughts elsewhere, otherwise, people might start to believe that this is all about Celtic fans putting the boot into Rangers.

    • ecojon

      @ Violet Carson

      Not quite sure who or what you are actually referring to which I must say is unlike you 🙂

      However the statement ‘Otherwise, people might start to believe that this is all about Celtic fans putting the boot into Rangers’ is interesting as I have so often thought it nearer to the truth that Rangers fans putting the boot into Celtic fans seems to be more the norm on here.

      However, as Celtic fans do not have a world domination complex they can rub along and generally accept their defeats with good grace and aim to play better football the next time and hopefully win the game. To us it really is playing the game well in all aspects that is important – winning to me and many mature Celtic fans is only part of what the club is all about and as the youngsters grow-up in the club most adopt the same sane and sensible attitudes.

      And that’s why we ‘travel’ so well because we want to make friends even in defeat – we don’t want enemies and to do battle and talk as though we are involved in a military campaign. We want to enjoy our football and the experience because, at the end of the day, it is only a game and not actually a reason for living and if that’s what it becomes for anyone then they ought to get a life.

      Btw I’m not sure that there is any veto on here about discussing the football merits or otherwise of any football team.

    • JohnBhoy

      Violet, blogs evolve. What attracted me to this blog were the discussions about law and football. It is a natural step to engage in banter about football. If there is a ban on football commentary then I would be happy to exit and no hard feelings. I enjoy reading your posts, even if the feeling is not reciprocated. Lastly, celebration is not the same as vilification.

      • ecojon

        @ JohnBhoy

        I was pissed out my head when I left the pub at shutting-time last night and toyed with a lock-in but sense prevailed. Gawd only knows what I posted last night and where 🙂

        Last night to me was as big as 1967 – it was an awesome moment and would be for the followers of any team. You know I’ve had the odd go at you and there are some things we don’t agree on but we can still express our opinions and together bask in the glory of our club’s achievement without triumphalism but just for its own sake.

        And you are right about Blogs evolving and this one is a prime example – it is totally different from how it was in the beginning but Paul didn’t create the Rangers volcano of interest and the Blog has been picked-up and swept along by the lava flow and diverted in many different directions and sometimes the passions run white hot.

        And we haven’t actually reached the meaty stuff yet 🙂

        • JohnBhoy

          @ecojohn

          This site is cool. The postings are a kaleidoscopic smorgasbord of views. Intelligent, trivial, witty, dry, emotional, forensic, serious, idiosyncratic, interactive, inclusive. Bullshit is easily exposed. Laughter is not far away. Presented with such a rich feast, petted lips over disagreements – based on knowledge (rational or empirical) of course – would be poor form. Personally, I tend to react to stupidity or rudeness. Ignorance is less of an issue for me: education, time and a willingness to learn from others is a proven cure.

    • ecojon

      @ Violet Carson

      I’m afraid that the person who decides what is allowable and what isn’t on this forum is Paul and he operates a very broad church in that regard.

      I think it is a bit artificial to try and separate on and off-field footballing activities when discussing any club. However, I wouldn’t think it appropriate for match reports to be posted here but then that is not for me to decide.

      I myself have posted one very short match report of the Rangers v Motherwell game when a number of posters argued that Motherwell threw the game. I disagreed with that and thought having watched the game that Rangers well deserved their win and the only real way to advance that argument was through the match report.

      So I think it important that we don’t get stuck in tramline thinking or approaches and that we leave plenty of room for a bit of blue sky thinking now and again.

  15. Geddy Lee

    What astonished and disgusted me, was that there was no attempt at an apology from those imbeciles on the Copland Road site, even when they found out this man had no part in their old clubs demise.

    Clearly, the fact he was a Celtic supporter, legitamised this dreadful witch hunt againt him.

    I see that complete twonk “Leggo” is now advocating violence for the next stage of this “Fight back” we keep hearing about from Sevco followers.

    Shameful is the only way to describe it.

    • ecojon

      @ Geddy Lee

      I read their nonsense and thank my lucky stars that I have known love in my life and have had a wonderful fulfilling career and take people as I meet them with no regard to their colour, religion, orientation or anything else other than their humanity towards others and their innate personal dignity. This does rule out fascists btw.

      These sad purveyors of hatred and violence must have had a terrible upbringing or life or something which is so hurtful happen to them that it has turned them into a ‘wounded animal’ forever crippled in outlook and ability to create a better life. They are eternally destined to live a second-hand ersatz exstance based solely on the achievements, or otherwise, of their heroes on the football field.

  16. florian albert

    Sorry I have to disagree with some of your conclusions about this very interesting episode. The banker concerned has risen to the top of a very competitive profession. (It is not, however, one that it held in much esteem these days.) I think that to have risen to such a position he must have had, or acquired, a fairly thick skin. I am skeptical that he had no choice but to ‘throw himself on the dubious mercy of a hate system mechanism.’ ie meet those responsible for defaming him on the internet.
    He could – I suspect – have ignored them. This appears to be the response that Graham Spiers, a particular target on some Rangers blogs, takes.
    Internet sites are awash with nasty people saying nasty things. I would be interested in hearing why, on this occasion, the story was not – as is the norm with such sites – ignored. (I accept that ignoring libel is in many respects unsatisfactory but it is almost unavoidable in the present state of the internet.)

  17. ecojon

    @ florian albert

    I really don’t think I have anything to add which would be of interest to you as you appear to have come to a conclusion and I doubt that you have actually read the posting of fans who were told this guy had ‘destroyed’ their club.

    If you live in the real world in Scotland I think you will be well aware that libel and defamation would be well down the list of worries involved and you also appear to have no concern for wife and family.

    I hope you never find yourself in a similar situation but I tend to think that if you did your views might alter.

  18. Geddy Lee

    florian, I assume you would prefer that this witch hunt was ignored as it is such a massive embarrassment for all involved.

    But that is not how to eradicate this festering hate . It must be confronted and exposed so that those who peddle this hatred can be found out, and hopefully, brought to book.

    I note with interest that the VILE Bear’s Den site seems to be unreachable again.

    let’s hope the authorities have finally blocked them off once and for all.

    The language, ignorance, and abuse spouted there against all things, Scottish, Catholic, or Celtic related was truely shocking and cannot be tolerated in a so called civilised society.

    Yes, they are mostly wee teenage Neds( They must be judging by the dreadful spelling and grammer) but it must be nipped in the bud before they become adults.

    Does anyone know of a decent, rational rangers site, that does not concentrate on hatred and paranoia?

    For the life of me, I can’t find one.

  19. florian albert

    ecojon November 8th 10.04. pm

    I live in the ‘real world of Scotland’ and know that, earlier in my life, The Banker would – because of his religious background – almost certainly not have achieved the promotion he did in banking in Scotland. I am grateful that Catholics in Scotland today do not suffer the discrimination our parents did. Your comparison with Star Chamber and witch trials in inaccurate because these were state sanctioned; Rangers blogs are entirely different. The irony is that The Banker, by agreeing to meet one Rangers blogger was able to persuade him that his conspiracy theory was wrong. ‘Rangers Blogger Concedes That Anti-Rangers Conspiracy Theory Is Mince’ might be a better headline for this story. In the context of Scottish football, it amounts to a small step forward.

  20. florian albert

    Geddy Lee 9 November 12. 01 pm.

    As I said earlier, there is no shortage of nasty comments made online. If any of these break the criminal law, I hope those responsible are prosecuted and the site closed down. Recent legislation was passed by the Scottish Parliament to make such prosecutions possible. That said, the internet is very difficult to police, so the problem is likely to be here for the forseeable future.

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