The Sun Serialisations – No to “Downfall” – Yes to Book by “Feared Gangland Hood”

As readers will know, the Scottish Sun elected not to serialise “Downfall” by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, having initially announced its intent to do so.

The Scottish Editor explained the decision in an editorial no longer available on the Sun website. Extracts from it read as follows:-

“THE Scottish Sun has never been afraid of controversy. Throughout the years, we have never shied away from tackling difficult subjects. We have never taken the soft option, the easy route, the quiet life.

We knew he (Phil Mac Giolla Bhain) was a controversial figure, but it was clear from the book he had written that he had a story to tell. And we felt it was a story that needed to be told to you, so that you could make your own minds up. So that you had a chance to read the behind-the-scenes details about the downfall of Rangers. So that you had a chance to see where the blame lay for the collapse of the club.

On Sunday, many Rangers fans contacted the paper. Most were reasonable, and wanted to point out some of the other material that the author carries on his website.

Let’s make one thing absolutely clear. We will never be bullied into not publishing stories simply because they upset some people.

We pride ourselves on having the finest journalists in the country who are totally and unequivocally impartial.

But Phil Mac Giolla Bhain is not one of our journalists and his blog undermines the entire industry.

THAT is why we have decided not to carry the serialisation of the book. Because the author — previously unbeknown to us — is tarred with a sickening sectarian brush.

We believed Phil Mac Giolla Bhain to be a proper and sound journalist. We were wrong.”

So according to the Sun we had the following:-

1                    The story of Rangers’ downfall needed to be told.

2                    Phil Mac Giolla Bhain was known to be a controversial figure.

3                    We did not know about all of the material on Phil’s website.

4                    Phil, well known to be a supporter of Celtic, was not “totally and unequivocally impartial”.

5                    His blog undermines the entire industry.

6                    Phil, unknown to the Sun, was tarred with an unspecified “sickening sectarian brush”.

7                    Phil is not a “proper and sound journalist”.

8                    The serialisation was not stopped because the story might upset some people.

One wonders in what way they thought Phil was controversial without realising it was connected to the Celtic v Rangers situation.

I don’t propose to go back through the stories serialised by the Sun to point out every one which does not meet those criteria, but I will choose one example.

I am not suggesting that the following story ought not to have been serialised, but the Sun could be looked at as being somewhat inconsistent in its application of its principles.

For example, whilst the story below could, depending on the precise contract, breach the Editors’ Code of Practice as promulgated by the Press Complaints Commission, serialising Phil’s book would not.

Section 16 of the Code reads

i) Payment or offers of payment for stories, pictures or information, which seek to exploit a particular crime or to glorify or glamorise crime in general, must not be made directly or via agents to convicted or confessed criminals or to their associates – who may include family, friends and colleagues.

ii) Editors invoking the public interest to justify payment or offers would need to demonstrate that there was good reason to believe the public interest would be served. If, despite payment, no public interest emerged, then the material should not be published

In January 2012 the Daily Record reported the following in connection with a budding author who was looking for a book deal:-

NOTORIOUS gangster Ian ‘Blink’ McDonald has written a book about his violent life of crime. The former bank robber spent three months penning his autobiography, with the help of his 20-year-old son. It has the working title of Blink: The Early Years and tells how, as a teenager, the ruthless thug slashed and robbed his way up the criminal ladder.

In his book, the Glasgow hardman tells of assaults on cops and prison officers, and beatings he received inside. The 48-year-old said: “It’s a violent and brutal account of my life and prison life. It’s quite graphic and no-holds-barred, from someone who’s actually been there and experienced it.

The book ends with him being jailed for 16 years in 1992 for a botched £6million bank heist, during which a teller was shot in the head. He was released on licence in 2001 but this was revoked in 2003 following a series of rows with nightclub bosses. He was forced to return to Shotts prison and spent another year inside.

He added: “It starts with me stealing pick ‘n’ mix as a five-year-old in Woolies and ends up at the Old Bailey. I really put the boot into police and prison officers. In 30 years of reading crime books, I’ve not seen anything as graphically detailed. I’ve always been a crook but who knows, maybe I’ve found a new career.”

On June 17, 2012 we saw the following published in the Sun. Clearly Mr MacDonald had found his book deal, and a newspaper to serialise his book too!

Day 1 of feared gangland hood’s sensational book

IAN ‘Blink’ MacDonald was one of the most feared enforcers in Glasgow’s violent underworld. In his forthcoming autobiography, Blink — A Journey Through Glasgow Mayhem, he reveals how he fought, robbed and slashed his way to the top.

And he tells how he started notorious reformed gangster Paul Ferris on the road to a career of crime. MacDonald’s plan was to start a new life in Spain, but the armed bank job which was to fund it went wrong and he was jailed for 16 years.

There he rubbed shoulders with some of Britain’s most sinister figures, including Reggie Kray. In Day One of The Scottish Sun’s serialisation, Blink reveals how he helped Ferris develop a taste for crime… in a stolen Glasgow taxi.

According to MacDonald, the teenage Ferris was amazed at the detail which went into planning jobs. He hung on his teacher’s every word.

Blink explained: “I told him, ‘Sit in the car and wait for me. I won’t be long — ten minutes maybe. I was back in nine minutes, a £3,000 tray of rings hidden beneath my coat. Pulling open the car door, I jumped in and told him, ‘Right, drive.’

“He did, and as we made our getaway I opened my coat to show him the haul. ‘F*****g hell,’ said Paul. “We went to a resetter who would usually give me a third or a fourth of the value and left his home with £1,000, of which I gave Paul half. ‘You’re doing the next one,’ I told him. And he did.”

Soon Blink came up with the taxi plan, which reaped rich ill-gotten rewards.

But the cheeky pair were finally rumbled when the Hackney’s owner noticed his diesel gauge was plummeting.

“It was immense fun, particularly when a few people tried flagging me down by putting their arms out.”

——————————————

Good luck to Mr MacDonald with his book, and I hope he remains a reformed character.

But really? The Sun sees it as in order to serialise the memoirs of a “feared gangland hood” and to talk about “the cheeky pair” who at the time were stealing a taxi and using it to rob shops?

He “reveals how he fought, robbed and slashed his way to the top.” At the same time he was having “immense fun” in his stolen taxi.

I clearly missed the piece where the Sun took him to task for his life of crime.

As I said, I do not object to the Sun serialising Mr MacDonald’s book.

But bearing in mind their apparent reasons for pulling the serialisation of Phil’s book, and removing the interview with him from their website, how is it consistent to serialise Mr MacDonald’s whimsical recollections of fighting, robbing and slashing his way to the top?

If the standards the Sun espouses regarding Phil apply, the how is it justified, as the Sun did in May 2011, to run a series of interviews with Paul Ferris, described in the MacDonald piece as the “notorious reformed gangster”?

I am an ardent supporter of freedom of speech.

One would have thought a newspaper editor would be too. To decide that, in some way, Phil’s blog means his book, being a story “that needed to be told to you (the Sun readership)” should not in fact be told, but Mr MacDonald’s should?

It is also of note that, whilst some of the articles cataloguing the Sun interviews with Mr Ferris state that he was not paid for the interview, there is no such disclaimer, as far as I can see about Mr MacDonald.

I am not suggesting that the Sun editor was anything less than 100% accurate in what he has stated as his reasons for pulling the serialisation of Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s book. However one is forced to wonder about the values the paper espouses.

Posted by Paul McConville

157 Comments

Filed under Books, Press, The Sun

157 responses to “The Sun Serialisations – No to “Downfall” – Yes to Book by “Feared Gangland Hood”

  1. John Callachan

    Paul,
    confused here, is it the sun or the daily record

  2. Paul Cochrane

    Interesting that they will ignore Andy Goram’s terrorist past to allow him on their ‘paper’..

  3. Phil, I wonder that you even waste your time making this argument, it’s clear the Sun has realised that publishing Bhain’s work will alienate Rangers fans and might lead to them being unable to sell their paper in another (half of a) major city in the UK. Whilst your argument is valid, I imagine people either understand this or they don’t. I imagine also your readership is quite polarised between people who generally think you talk a lot of sense (even Rangers fans of a more reasonable persuasion, amongst which I include myself) and people who hate you and believe you to be a lying evil Celtic fan out to besmirch their good club, If you are trying to convince these people through logical argument, I assure you it is futile.

    I also wonder why you waste your time responding to this Baxter character. I was born and raised a Rangers fan in a family who loved Rangers, my Dad has a picture of me in an incubator at Paisley Maternity Hospital with a Rangers scarf wrapped around it. I have always supported Rangers, whilst frequently being embarrassed by elements of our support. My wife went to a Catholic girls school. Personally I believe all religion is nonsense, but uphold others rights to believe in it should they choose to do so. I suspect the majority of the people who propogate Sectarian hatred in Scotland on both sides of the divide are not doing so out of religious belief but rather out of some sort of ‘us and them’ mentality. These people are idiots.

    Recent events at Ibrox have served to expose how much institutional support of Rangers in the Scottish media there really is. I have been surprised by this. It has served to show that Charles Green is a shrewd businessman whatever you might say. At no point do I see anything a few months ago suggesting Ibrox would be getting bigger crowds v Elgin City than Celtic park v Hibernian. That Charles Green has managed to motivate the support with the ‘it’s us against the world’ mentality, all for his own financial benefit, credits him with far more intelligence and nous than most commentators notice.

    Your blog continues to make very shrewd and valuable observations on Scottish Football. That these are not subject to greater scrutiny is shocking, frankly.

    Rangers do deserve to be punished for what has happened. Arguably, even if it was not a punishment and only a consequence, that has sufficiently happened. Previous league titles were won by 11 men playing 11 men on a football park. If they had additional contracts, well those contracts have brought the club into disrepute and into SFL3. Celtic will win many many titles before Rangers recover, this is fair and right. Celtic are entitled to take the moral high ground, but do they really want handed titles they didn’t win on a football park, and to what end? We are a small country, Rangers are not the most successful club in World Football, not if you scale the achievements by their significance.

    • Thanks Ross for reading, for the compliment and for taking the trouble to put up your comment.

      It is proof that there is a reasonable Rangers fan out there!

      (Joke!)

      There are many very fair, reasonable and sensible Rangers fans. The problem seems to be that, as with other clubs I am sure, there is a vocal minority which can drown out the much larger majority.

      And as regards Mr Green, whilst I have offered various thoughts on his takeover, I have never suggested he is daft – in fact quite the reverse!

    • Stephen

      A fair enough article Ross, but I should point out that as a Celtic fan I do not want titles that weren’t earned on the football park but neither should a club be entitled to keep them if it is proved they won them buy cheating.

      It wouldn’t be the first time a sporting award was rescinded and it probably won’t be the last.

    • Excellent narrative and observations Ross, welcome.

      One point though is that the resultant start in div 3 is as a result of the administration and demise of the club/business not the EBT. That “penalty/sanction” has still to be decided assuming the club are found guilty.

      Further the majority of CFC fans and other clubs as it would not be only CFC that have been “cheated” do not want the titles, however the record books should reflect that equally the club if found guilty of winning by having an obvious unfair advantage , then they should as with other sports be stripped of those titles.

      I look forward to your contributions on future threads and topics.

    • Thomas

      I agree with most of your post, and I wish you all the best.
      I have no wish for any team to be given titles, but if guilty scrub the results.
      Scotland needs fairness in more than just fitba!

    • Ernesider

      “Celtic are entitled to take the moral high ground, but do they really want handed titles they didn’t win on a football park, and to what end?”

      Or

      Do Celtic and other clubs want titles they were cheated out of?

      Or

      Should Rangers be allowed to keep titles that were won by blatant dishonesty?

      Ross – you have written such a fair minded piece that it seems ungenerous to deny what you ask. But sorry, I would strip Rangers of the titles that were won by cheating. As for allocating them to the runners up, I would like to hear a few more opinions.

    • TheBlackKnight

      Pretty well balanced post Ross apart from the last bit

      “Rangers do deserve to be punished for what has happened. Arguably, even if it was not a punishment and only a consequence, that has sufficiently happened. Previous league titles were won by 11 men playing 11 men on a football park. If they had additional contracts, well those contracts have brought the club into disrepute and into SFL3.”

      1. I agree. Rangers do need to be punished. But which one? Is the current *The Rangers the same? Why should they be punished for the previous clubs misdemeanors?

      2. No Punishment has happened yet. Div 3 is entirely a consequence of the circumstances involved in non payment of tax for the season 2011-2012. NOTHING ELSE

      3. Easy to say 11 men against 11 men. 11 Better quality? 11 Paid for by the tax payer NOT the club? Cheating is cheating!

      and now to the biggest misconception…….

      4. “well those contracts have brought the club into disrepute and into SFL3”

      NO IT HASN’T! The club formally Rangers Football Club 1872 are in the process of going bust (being liquidated) due to massive debts. Regardless of the big tax case, the club is still going bust. Take the BTC quantum out and the club is still going bust!

      The enormity of this has still to be realised!

  4. John Callachan

    Sorry Paul, not sure if I missed that now.

  5. jomack

    It is sad in this day and age that there is still a fear to print the truth.
    Be it by aggression or financial intimidation I find it abhorrent.
    Does the terrorist following ex goalkeeper still have someone writing for the shun. Hail hail

  6. John Callachan

    Ross,
    “Previous league titles were won by 11 men playing 11 men on a football park. If they had additional contracts, well those contracts have brought the club into disrepute and into SFL3”
    The issue is, they were players Rangers could not afford and would not have been in the team, had they followed the rules. Celtic were not the only team cheated, there are other teams who may never again achieve cup finals, I believe they should recieve the honours earned by playing to the rules.
    But you know this.

  7. p groom

    I don’t find it surprising that the rangers are clocking up such big crowds in a lower division than the preceding rangers fc. where else would these supporters go on a saturday? not to another club thats for sure. whether the support is sustained in the long run remains to be seen though it may not be a very long run anyway if sfa/spl/sfl restructuring plans get them back in spl by next season. just what is going on with hmrc ticketus lord glennie and all the other outstanding issues? I’m beginning to think we may be waiting a very long time for results or decisions because that suits certain agendas. the fall-out when it does come will be of epic proportions and perhaps it is that fact that is delaying any announcements while sfa/spl/sfl grapple with the problem.

  8. I am not here to get into the debate around the book but i will say one thing on the matter. The added publicity surrounding the book since it was ‘pulled’ by the Sun newspaper has done far far more for its sales figures than serialisation ever could…………..

    Now if only one was into conspiracies (i am not) they could probably find several degrees of separation linking someone at the Sun newspaper and the payroll of a certain publisher.

    One thing is certain, Phil Mac may or may not be angered by what the Sun wrote about him – but his bank balance will certainly not. If the Sun really did believe that Phil Mac was tarred with a Sectarian brush then they have done very little to suppress his voice, indeed – if anything, they have fired so much publicity toward the author and his book that i fully expect to see it take its turn at the top of the book charts in the near future.

    Perhaps there is a sense of irony in all of that…….

    🙂

  9. Thomas

    Albion Rovers get the fechin finger oot! If Sevco get out of Div.3 and you sink you’ll be the poorest £ team in the Northen Hemisphere, mon the Brig!

  10. Excellent post Ross, but I agree with John C – those players would patently have not been able to play had the rules been followed properly. I don’t care what happens to the honours won – the fact is they have been completely tainted and ruined as a result. And it won’t really matter as much anyway, as the club does not exist any more (see Companies House, Uefa, et al). What does matter is that justice is seen to be done. It hasn’t yet.

    As regards tonight’s subject, the non-serialisation, the Sun does not have a leg to stand on. They could have very simply told readers about Phil Mac’s ‘other interests’ such as his foray into satirical writing, or whatever – the point is that, as Paul points out in his blog, it’s “their ba'”.

    Don’t tell me it is not beyond the skills of the Sun (of all papers) to run such spoiling stories alongside the serialisation? After all, it isn’t the Sun’s book, as they are at so much pains to point out. They could handle it, it’s not that hard to do.

    And what about circulation? The Liverpool example is not relevant; in that instance they printed lies and half-baked rumours about hooligans robbing dead people – as well as treating the dead people scandalously – without any evidence whatsoever, and have quite rightly suffered for it to this day. This is not that type of story – nowhere near it – and most people KNOW it’s basically true.

    There should be enough evidence in Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s book for great and sensational stories – and enough editorial nous at a national tabloid newspaper to sell increased numbers of copies on the back of it. I really don’t think a boycott would have been able to work (the track record of those threatening it to organise things such as mass demos is not that great anyway) – ans anyway, once the Sun had serialised the book, the other media outlets would have had to go with what was being published. It would be big news – as it should be. Anyone still saying it was rubbish would be more or less laughed at. A lot of people would have been grateful for the info – there are lots of other positive points, and A LOT less chance of civil disturbance because of it.

    But you’re right that we need to draw a line, Ross. Unfortunately for obviously decent Rangers fans such as your good self, that line will be drawn once everything is out in the open (which it obviously is not), when all the investigations are complete (some haven’t even started), and all the verdicts etc come in (well…).

    Sorry, this is going to be a long process, and I feel for you mate, but this is all Murray and Whyte’s fault, not to mention all the other players in this utter scandal who have let it trundle on for this long. There’ll even be a time when even Celtic supporters are sick of it – I’m getting a bit fed up with it myself – honest!

  11. Carl31

    The old Rangers were ended because they went bust, not because of EBTs. At the moment they have been found neither in the wrong nor in the clear with these EBTs and/or second contracts. If they are in the wrong, some form of further punishment will likely be forthcoming. I see it as worth repeating this, since many Rangers fans hold with a view that they have been ‘punished enough’, If left with the misconception that all wrongdoings are out in the open, they are likely to unjustifiably feel aggrieved at such further punishment.

    Its worth noting that, as has been said before, the dual contract rule can have been breached without an EBT, indeed any ‘extra’ payment(s) not declared to the football authorities in accordance with the rules constitute breach. Evidence may arise from the FTT case that incriminates old Rangers re dual contract breaches, and yet is not found against them re tax liability. Conversely, should the FTT find against Old Rangers, it may be the case that sufficient legal argument is made that clear them of breach of te dual contracts letter of the law. Both aspects dont go hand in hand, IMO.

  12. JimBhoy

    like i said a few days ago…. PMcG’s masterstroke akin to Frankie goes to hollywood’s BBC ban will go ballistic< see blog…. PMcG, PMcC all the very beast…!!!

  13. JimBhoy

    “best” maybe more appropriate, unless you have a suitable roast on the go..!

  14. ross

    yous guys are so bigotted and biased on here it beggars belief. You can dress it up all you want but the Sun made the right decision not to serialize Phils book as Phil is a pedallar of bigotry and hate and stands for nothing positive (you guys are heralding him as some sort of martyr). A thousand comparisons wont change this. You should redirect your fight I fear.

    • Brian J

      Alas Ross, I fear you have let your veil slip a little. Your first post was seemingly very well constructed and presented. It was a cogent argument with which, for the most part I found little to disagree with. This last piece is however quite the opposite. It does not follow that people who take a different view from you are bigoted or biased. Most of the responses to your post were positive and offered a rationale where the poster sought to take issue with any particular point you had made. Your response here does neither. It is also worth noting that the thread of this particular blog does not relate to the merits or otherwise of the content of the book in question but rather to the apparent inconsistency in the approach by the Sun in its decision to cancel the serialisation in light of the nature and content of books it has serialised in the past.

      • Ross Waddell

        The fact that this poster has used the name Ross is no relation to myself, I’d hope the difference in the content of the posts would be sufficient to demonstrate this!

        I am not familiar with Phil MacGiolla Bhain’s views, I suspect I wouldn’t agree with many of them but that is irrelevant to the content of his book.

        Thanks also for the comments on my original post. I appreciate that Rangers don’t deserve those titles, I don’t take any pride in them any more unfortunately, and that has been ruined for me and many other Rangers fans. Now I better get back to work!

      • Brian J

        Touchet! It is very true that ASSUME makes an ASS of U and ME and in this case of me in particular. I should not have assumed that the two posts were from the same author. Please accept my apology. In hindsight it ought to have been crystal clear just by reference to the quality of the writing.

    • Please can you give examples ross (not Wallace, a decent poster who quite rightly distances himself from your comment). I think you’ll find a lot of posters have already noted that Phil Mac Giolla Bhain (it’s just the Irish version of McGullivan, no need to get scared), has written some stuff that is anti-Rangers on a site that is, after all, pro-Celtic. So what? You know what to expect on that site. But never has he written anything that can be seen as ‘bigotry and hate’, and it hasn’t stopped him getting work with national newspapers.

      But that’s not the point, and you know it. The Scottish Sun is hiding behind an argument that is patently nonsense – Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a proven and reliable journalist and author of good standing (even by News International, owners of the Scottish Sun, whom he has done work for in the past), has written a book outlining all the facts that he and others have uncovered (and have NOT been argued against, least of all by you) about the biggest financial scandal in UK sporting history, resulting in the DEATH of Glasgow Rangers Football Club.

      I’m sure a lot of readers – NEW ones too, as the Sun’s sales are sliding – would be very keen on reading more about this story, but especially if Rangers was their team. I certainly would want to read it if it was about my team.

      The book has even been recommended by two very well respected figures in UK national journalism – one of them an award-winning former tabloid editor, who was also once an assistant editor ON THE SUN.

      So what if Phil’s written some (very) heavy-handed satirical piece – based, let’s remember, on the type of neanderthals who spew the most disgusting bigoted, racial and religious hatred about Phil and his family, and call for extreme physical harm to be visited on them? And still do, from what we read on the Bears Den. And all he does is lampoon that? Quite restrained if you ask me.

      So please can you give examples of posters on this forum who have posted views that are so ‘bigoted and biased it beggars belief’? (By the way, you don’t ‘herald’ martyrs – the timing’s all wrong for a start.)

    • NumbNuts

      @ ross

      “You can dress it up all you want but …”

      I’ve seen several variations of this phrase by different posters, at different times. By the power of babelfish it roughly translates as “So what about a reasoned, logical, compelling analysis and sensible debate, I have my ill-informed, fixed view and I’m sticking with it … “.

    • ecojon

      @ross

      Don’t worry about us ross as we know who our enemy is and there is no need to redirect the fight as it remains as before.

  15. John Burns

    The titles play such a big part in the Rangers brand’s psyche – when they could not win the European Cup, they decided to do something, that as far as I know no other team has ever done, that is put five stars, one for each of ten titles won, on their jerseys – they also boast, even from their lowly position and as the new Sevco entity, ad infinitum about being the most successful club in the world, primarily due to their ‘haul’ of league titles.

    There can be no debate here – if games were won with players who received side-letters outlining additional contractual payments to their playing contracts that had been lodged with the SPL/SFA, then ipso facto, the contracts, as a whole, were illegal and therefore the relevant players were ineligible to play for the club.

    The penalty for systematically and methodically fielding ineligible players over a twelve year period, is that all games involving any of these players MUST be forfeited by a scoreline of 0-3.

    It therefore follows that during those seasons the now defunct Rangers did not win the either, on the park, or, off the park.

    The titles, and all other honours, must be ‘stripped’ from them, if proven guilty. How on earth could there be any justification to do otherwise, UNLESS, in the words of the Sun – ” many Rangers fans contacted the paper” – in the case of the institutions that run Scottish football it could well be that – “many Rangers fans, almost all the Scottish media and members of the Scottish Government contacted us”

    At the recent draw for European competitions, Michel Platini spoke of UEFA’s commitment to, carry out to the letter, the aims of their Financial Fair Play Initiative. There was particular criticism of national associations who allow mismanagement to occur in their leagues – Platini said, “Sometimes the associations don’t do their work and we have to come after [them]” – through the threat of punishment.”

    It seems to me that the SFA/SPL will have little leeway if and when the cheating is proved.

    • Kevin mc sherry

      In the strange mind of the rangers fc supporter, I believe it is linfield who occupy the second spot in the worlds most successfull club league table. Quite where real madrid and their illustrious haul of european cups find themselves in this league one can only wonder. I wonder if it keeps mourinho awake at night?

      • iain

        @Erne
        I’m sure they couldn’t care less what a Scottish club puts on their shirts.
        Celtic and their fands on the other hand……

        🙂

    • iain

      Rangers are most certainly not the only team in the world to use stars to denote ten titles.

      The fact that the subject of the starts still causes so much consternation amungst so many non-Rangers fans is a surce of great comfrt to me!
      🙂

      • Ernesider

        Iain

        And just think of the additional comfrt you will enjoy when you eventually add on three SFL titles. Barcelona and Real Madrid will be green with envy.

  16. BTW I know they turned out to be fake (which is hilarious in itself) but didn’t another newspaper in the News International stable pay top dollar to publish some diaries whose author was of questionable character?

  17. Joseph

    The Sun editor’s statement: Phil Mac Giolla Bhain’s blog undermines the entire industry. . .he is tarred with a sickening sectarian brush.

    One, how can one man undermine an entire industry? Two, the second part is defamatory.

    • iain

      How can it be defanatory if t’s true?

      • TheBlackKnight

        to be true you need “PROOF”. You have none I assume!

        inference and distorted perception are two entirely different things and “Intolerance of Intolerance” is a good thing!

      • iain

        I’ve been reading his blog for a cuple of years.
        There is enough evidence in there if his bigotry. That was even before his now infamouse “incubator” blog which of course no one could deny was the product of a bigot.

      • Joseph

        Hi iain, prove to me that it is true. If I had written the incubator, and let us face it, I could have done knowing what these so-called fitba fans get up to, and I may even have thought it if not put it into words, and then told a friend what I had written or thought. Would he perceive me to be a bigot or someone letting my imagination go wild? Knowing me not to be a bigot, he would plump for the later. Also, if we are honest with one another all of us have gone down this road at some time or another, poking fun at others. It doesn’t make us bad people. The difference with the statement from the Sun is that they have made it public that Phil is a bigot. I’m sure a good lawyer could prove this as defamatory. I am up to be proved wrong. Maybe Paul can help enlighten my lack of legal knowledge.

      • @iain
        Defanatory/defamatory, whatever – they are not true, although I note that the Sun is cleverly hiding behind a law that seems to put the onus on the ‘victim’ to prove otherwise.

        Nevertheless, two things are certainly true:
        1.the facts uncovered by Phil Mac Giolla Bhain and others that are outlined in his book, and
        2. the fact that Rangers Football Club does not exist any more. Legally.

        Iain, maybe you’d like to discuss either of these, maybe with reference to how the former could in any way have caused the latter? I’d be very interested in hearing your thoughts, if you have any, on the actual FACTS (excuse me while I get a cup of tea and await your insightful analysis).

      • TheBlackKnight

        Iain like I said…….
        “inference and DISTORTED perception are two entirely different things”

      • iain

        Kenny
        I’m afraid I see no benefit of continued obsession to the enth degree on how Rangers found themselves whwre they are today.
        What could possibly be achieved? Especially on a Celtic blog like this.
        I know continually delving in, regurgitating and looking for motivations and consrpracy’s on every single word uttered by the likes of Green or any Rangers official still keeps the great and the good of this website consumed.
        I have moved on I’m afraid.

        You are cleary aware of what the book contains, do you have your copy yet? If it runs along the lines of much of what he states on his blog and what is regurgitated here I am confident that much of it will certainly not be true.
        That matters not a jot though. As this book on Rangers is not aimed at me. It is aimed at the many Celtic fans who will consume it as vociderously as they consume any other nugget of a Rangers story.

      • iain

        Oh and Kenny:
        “2. the fact that Rangers Football Club does not exist any more.”

        I think you will find they do!
        🙂

      • ecojon

        @Kenny McCaffrey

        I wouldn’t bet on the ‘insightful analysis’ coming from @iain while you make a cup of tea Kenny. Might I suggest that a slow-boat to Ceylon to pick the tea leaves and a swim back to Britain might give @iain a slim chance to repeat one of his mantras.

      • Sorry iain, still waiting… was actually going to give you thumbs up for your posts to me, they were so entertaining, but alas so wrong.

        Anyway, you obviously don’t wish to know anything about the people or the actions that have led to the death of RFC, so maybe you deserve Green and the new club he’s financing (or is he?). I know you and other Rangers fans may indeed be living proof that there are still SUPPORTERS of Glasgow Rangers FC – after all, there are still supporters of Third Lanark (one is in my family). But sadly, both are dead.

        One last point on the Sun’s non-serialisation. I read and commented on a different blog that a Mr Young, former grand fromage at the Record and Sunday Mail, and now of marketing-based title The Drum, let it slip that when Maurice Johnston signed for Rangers – possibly the last time Rangers fans were so angered at a story – the Sun sold “tens of thousands of extra copies”. Interesting that, don’t you think?

    • Ernesider

      Joseph et al

      I can’t believe that you are taking a muck-raking “Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster” rag like the Sun seriously.

    • ecojon

      @Joseph

      I believe that Rupert Murdoch the boss of the Sun editor managed to undermine a whole industry 🙂

  18. brian kennedy

    mr mcconville in any society one has the right to defend ones views. i must admit that you do this to a very high standard. i understand that you stand for freedom of speech/ freedom of expression, admirable traits, and i believe that you come across as a very balanced man. now with regards mr macgiollabhains recent work downfall, and the proposed serialisation of his work in the sun newspaper, i believe that the sun haven taken the right descion. by all means bring out the book because to stop this would be an evident even blatant atempt to prevent freedom of speech/ freedom of expression. but to have his work published in a national newspaper after it became known his views on rangers supporters would have been in my own opinion wrong. i read the blog and rightly or wrongly got the following decription of a section of society as pissed stained, urinated infected, urinating disease ridden, disease spreading deformities. now im sure in society to day to describe any grouping as this would be offensive at the least and vile at the worst. i actually enjoy reading and have read a lot of books by authors who have not held the same political/social/idealogical views that i have accepted, but in this case i dont think i could actually read mr macgiollabhain’s work, for the above reasons. maybe some may find his views satirical i certainly dont, just like i didnt find the famine song either very funny. in this blog it is my perception that mr macgiollabahin deliberately went out of his way to dehumanise a section of society. this same dehumanisation of people is a dangerous path for society to go down as history has taught us that when authors are used for this purpose, like in nazi germany the terrible regime embarked on the most vilest genocide the world has seen in the most recent times against a people they had dehumanised. maybe you feel this is sensationalist but like every little seed it can grow into a very big tree, i would hate to see this small seed planted, of dehumanisation of a certain section of society turned into justification of a justified campaign of hate against them, on the basis that they are less than human. respect/ tolerance for ones views and backgroounds is the foundation stone/ bedrock of any respectable society, and to turn into satire ie making it funny when it was so clearly offensive even hurting that someone could put this into print and others say it is funny. if this blog was about any other section of the community it would be termed as a hate crime, which i believe it most certainly is.

    • NumbNuts

      @ brian kennedy

      I think your points are fair enough but I do not agree completely. Whilst some of the blog content may cause offence, most notably the incubator post, causing offence is somewhat over-rated. Causing offence is not a good reason for this action by The Sun. Causing offence is not a justification for the commentary that The Sun provided in support of their decision.

      With limited reading time I err towards informed comment and analysis. I find sites with rants, anger and willful ignorance a huge turn-off. I also find I have followed certain twitter users such as Tom English then stopped following because IMHO he was too keen on trolling, seeking a reaction, rather than contributing to the debate of the day.

      I have followed the PMG blog for about a year now and his views are clear. However, they are also concise, well-articulated and thought-provoking. If it was bigoted, small-minded clap-trap I would not waste a minute of my life on it and I certainly would not go back repeatedly throughout this past year to read the latest updates and exclusives (and hints of exclusives). I do not recognise the author from the hostile and spiteful descriptions arising from this issue.

      In short, the incubator post is not in itself a reason to have stopped the serialisation and the hostile reaction from the fans of the club [most] impacted by the book is not a reason either.

      To be honest it seems to me that while the abuse and character assassination of the author may be plentiful. the supporting evidence is rather less so.

      • brian kennedy

        @ numb nuts. good reply and some very valid replies. i agree that to be thought provoking is a good trait to have, and quite possibly mr macgiollabhain can be this. but i cant agree on the incubator blog not being offensive. its subtle, in how it tries to caricature rangers supporters, because when you read the piece the description is the most deranged creature one could possibly create. now the really clever piece is in the end that when it speaks mr macgiollabhain makes this deformiity utter we are the people. a well known shout from the rangers supporters. now if this creature which mr macgiollabhain was a monority depiction of the rangers support then maybe it could be seen as giving offence, but the fact he makes it speak the words which all rangers supporters will shout at some stage, it being their football chant, ensures mr macgiollabhain has catergorised all the rangers support as he described in his incubator deformity. that in my opinion is the point when he dehumanises the whole of this support. my 11 year old boy who has been at ibrox and sang along with the rangers support the words mr macgiollabhain makes his frankinstein say, becomes this piss stained urinated urinating disease ridden disease spreading deformity . in his eyes. this is becomes dehumanising. i would hate to think that because nick griffen was a thought provoking lucid and good author that people would read his book. the two go together, and on that basis i would not read his books or like to see a griffen serialisation in any national paper. now i undertand that you enjoy his blogs and you are entitled to think this and see no offence. but one mans meat is another mans posion and i feel on this matter he overstepped the mark of decency.

  19. NumbNuts

    Good point touched upon by Kenny McCaffrey above.

    Is the Sun now saying it will not be running with any stories or investigations resulting from the publication of this book?

    That would be an interesting position for them to take.

  20. MSM

    I believe the entire “Rangers affair” has moved too rapidly beyond football having lain dormant for some years and there is the real threat of it becoming totally out of control. The significant disharmony churning in Scottish and communities is strangling all common sense, in reality what should have been the unbelievable collapse of a business has transformed into the sinister destruction of an empire from “out-side forces”. It has gone beyond the game, the titles, the cups and the glory days, it has unbalanced the core of the community; intensifying the basic bigotry and sectarianism which Scotland has historically endured. As this division grows, I fear for Scotland, especially when the outcomes of the numerous investigations come to conclusion.
    Consequently , I have to say (expecting unmitigated condemnation), I think Phil Mac Giolla Bhain & Charles Green are to a degree part of and perhaps guilty of increasing, aggravating and inciting the frustration, tribalism, separation and division.
    Mr Green gains the daily support of the sycophants who now worship him as second- messiah and the instigator of this Phoenix rising from the ashes_ he is “Rangers” and will stand against anyone and everyone who stands-against them. It would appear he lives, breathes, eats and sleeps the principle: make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it over and over and eventually it will become the undisputed truth. His repetitive “war-cry” of bias, persecution and injustice against “Rangers” (old and new), has the mainstream media geared-up and churning out his paranoia, peddling and pandering to the notion for all the world to see “Rangers” are actually the victims_ powerlessly being slaughtered by the SFA, SPL or anyone else who does not share their opinion of “persecution”.
    Mr Green’s; “Rangers then, Rangers now, Rangers forever “.
    Pandering to the “BIGOTRY” he opens and bleeds the scars of sectarianism and he uses every nasty little tool in his armour: hatred, distortion, inaccuracies, obsession all to safeguard the “siege mentality” feeding to the follow-follow-brigade to the point of apoplectic frenzy.
    Equally so, at times you have to step-back and view it even-handedly { notably}, this being said by a practicing Catholic from Irish/Scottish parents, born and raised in a Catholic household; Altar Boys, Eucharistic Ministers, Nuns, Priest, Celtic Season Tickets and shares. Even so, I have tried to read Phil Mac Giolla Bhains’ books, I also read his web-page {I’ve never commented on it} simply because it is a forum of likeminded people who would crucify anyone who even dared to suggest any slight against the man.
    His loyalties, his views are known, his allegiance is renowned and in consideration of his history, observations and content of work; I do not think he had to release that book right now. There is a time and a place for everything; it will be authentic, it may well be brilliant and beyond doubt a story worthy of telling but {to me} it shrieks of commercialism, predictable contentiousness and provoking
    The Rangers demise has a long road to travel and the outcomes of investigations are still pending, these are history times we are living through; never to be forgotten and will be told through generations. If the tide of smouldering-rage-and-frustration is fuelled any further; the bitter minority, fanatical fools and senseless people within the general community will go off the deep end. Scotland may and would have to endure the aftermaths of lost generations comparable to Irish History.

    • ecojon

      @MSM

      It is often difficult in a continuing story to decide when to draw the line and publish what you have. I don’t know Phil and I don’t think I have ever read his Blog other than the ‘Incubator’ piece. No reason I haven’t followed his blog regularly but rather a question of available time as I tend not to dip in and out of sites but spend a period of time with ones I find interesting.

      So I will read his book on Rangers with no actual notion really of where Phil stands on anything, But it doesn’t matter as regards the book – I know enough of the story to spot any gross errors and if I see any I will contact Phil and make my point – I do that with the authors of every book I read and I read a helluva lot of books 🙂

      I would read a book by David Murray or indeed anyone on the subject and that includes Charles Green as I admire just how good an operator he is. It isn’t just the p*ss poor Scottish press that makes him look good – he is your genuine snake oil salesman 🙂

      However, back to the timing of Phil’s book release I would personally probably have drawn the line at their first SFL3 game and written a teaser as to the sequel and the trials or perhaps glittering success that awaits Rangers.

      The story has in reality years to run and there could be many key moments and flashpoints along the way. It might even need more than 2 books.

      I don’t actually know where Phil drew the line for the first book but I’m sure he will have give a lot of thought to that particular decision as it is an inmportant one.

      As to attacks made on him about earning money – if it’s OK for Charlie Green to walk away with millions for ‘rescuing’ Rangers then why shouldn’t Phil make money as he has a wife and family to support.

  21. Andy

    Interesting read and a valid point – Why serialise one criminal for a ‘story’ and not that of a man that claims to be an author with what some might say at best questionable opinions. Even if I don’t find Phil M palatable he to date doesn’t not appear to have committed any significant criminal offences, therefore why would a criminal be published ahead of a law abiding citizen, just because of his opinion. Do I now feel the book should be serialised?, no, his views are still antagonistic and provocative despite how well written or informed the content of the book may be, however I do agree that the SUN needs to have a good look at their code of practice.

    On the ‘need’ for Rangers to be punished, is it not true that sometimes consequence acts as punishment…for example if you put your hand in boiling water, you will receive a very nasty burn as a consequence and most likely a scar as punishment to remind you of the lesson learned and that you should not do it again. For someone else to come and pour boiling water on you after the wound has healed and only the scar remains, ‘just so you don’t forget’ would be excessive.

    But this is Scottish football, and whilst everyone talks of moving on, no one really wants to without letting by gones be by gones. There must be punishment and it must be severe and blah de blah…..

    So here is the question to those that ‘need’ further punishment to satisfy their lust for ‘justice’?

    Please spell out exactly what the punishment should be that will allow you and many others to move on without further prejudice against Rangers based on misdemeanours of the past? I.e. you will be satisfied Rangers have been appropriately punished and can move on under the basis that they are simply just another rival club?

    • iain

      The answer ANdy is that they will never be satisfied.
      Not so long as Rangers exist. And of course, they always will

    • Timmy7

      The punishment should be the removal of all honours won whilst fielding ineligible players – if it is proved that is what happened. I wouldn’t want them awarded to the runners up in the competitions; instead there should be a note against the appropriate year and competition stating that it had been rendered null and void.

      • Andy

        @Timmy7

        Thanks, fair enough, if proven guilty and based on the above punishment being handed down, would that satisfy you enough to then move on with the sport in the country,( and apart from some camaradarie between fans about the situation, which Im all for), then maybe we could all move on with football on the park becoming the sole topic for debate in relation to Scottish football teams?

        If that’s what it takes to end the bitterness then it’s a price worth paying in my eyes, and also fair, waste of money on lawyers, but nonetheless fair if guilty. Problem is would it end the bitterness towards Rangers or is this now too far ingrained in many?

      • ecojon

        @Andy

        You state: ‘Problem is would it end the bitterness towards Rangers or is this now too far ingrained in many?’

        Why don’t you do something useful and spend your time on RM and see what you can do there to end the ingrained bigotry – do you reckon your fellow Bears will listen to you? I wonder if you have the moral courage to do it. Nah, probably not.

      • NumbNuts

        @ Andy

        “Problem is would it end the bitterness towards Rangers or is this now too far ingrained in many?”

        One of the least impressive elements of this debate is how the seriousness of the allegations and the intensity of the argument is dismissed as Celtic fans versus Rangers fans. Its not about that and never has been. Yes, there is an unhealthy bitterness at the moment that flows through the years in peaks and troughs and at the moment, in my opinion, is heading fast towards another peak, with worse to come.

        But its the complete cop-out of lazy observers who don’t want to think too hard about the evidence so they berate one, other or both sides for petty bias and nothing more.

        Is there an element of “ingrained” to it? Yes. It exists on all sides. That’s where good leadership at clubs and authorities could make a difference. At the moment the leadership at Rangers has been guilty of playing to the bitterness, which is a cheap and dangerous tactic. The leadership of other clubs has been good enough albeit it did wobble in places. Leadership of the governing bodies is still falling short of the required standard.

        But I’m off on one. That’s another thread for another day.

        PS. It looks to me like most/many fans would support striking the titles rather than reallocating, which kinda blows a whole in the argument of pursuing the issue for personal gain. Not so much a lust for justice as a desire to see justice done.

    • ecojon

      @Andy

      You state: ‘Even if I don’t find Phil M palatable he to date doesn’t not appear to have committed any significant criminal offences’.

      I hadn’t realised that Phil was guilty of any crininal offences so could you please list the non-significant ones that you are inferring he is guilty of?

      On the question of punishment – this will be decided by the SFA and the SPL and it is noit a matter for supporters to set the punishment. But if the punishments once made are regarded as insufficient then there could well be a reaction from fans. However, until decisions are made no one will play your boring and sterile ‘whataboutery’ game.

    • iain

      Still not responding to me ecojon?

    • I see you are still having trouble differentiating between consequence and punishment iain. Pain and scarring would BOTH be consequences of putting your hand in boiling water. Punishment is inflicted by a third party. A better analogy is that Rangers poured boiling water onto the hands of every team they cheated in over ten years of deliberate financial doping.

      It is the rest of Scottish football that bears the scars of Rangers actions and so far Rangers have not yet been punished for the damage they wrought on other innocent parties.

  22. Brian J

    The consequences/punishments so far inflicted on the club are for things that are either matters of fact (the club went into administration, the club failed to produce audited accounts) or breaches of regulations which have been proven after due process (bringing the game into disrepute by deliberately witholding monies due to the tax authorities and other clubs). There are a number of issues which have yet to be properly investigated let alone been through due process (EBTs, dual contracts, side letters). These outstanding matters cannot just be ignored as though they were irrelevant. They go right to the heart of fair play. There may have been an argument that to continue the investigations would have been irrelevant if Rangers, as a club (rather than as a business under any name/ownership) died with the administration but Rangers fans and the new owners are at pains to confirm that the club did not die, that it continues with its history intact. Well unfortunately that history is tainted with matters that require investigating and for which there is the potential of further fairly stringent punishments still to come. If you want to cut all ties to past transgressions and to let bygones be bygones then fair enough… Concede that the old club died with all its history, good and bad, and start afresh as a new club without any liability for the misdeeds of the previous entity.

    • Andy

      @Brian J

      I understand where your coming from, and the significance of EBT’s is not lost on me, however I feel that it is a somewhat fruitless excercise to continue to down a road of spending money on lawyer fees etc that the governing organisation doesnt have (as they are insolvent), pursuing the stripping of titles rather than investing in the game, when you see that Rangers have started at the bottom of pile and not exactly firing on all cyliners to be frank, is it not time to start thinking of the future and thinking of ways to improve the game for all going forward…. my opinion on that will no doubt be lambasted by those seeking ‘true’ justice….

      As fans we are members of the club, we didn’t follow the company, we were members of a club and still are, and that is what was transferred within the goodwill of old corporate entity to new corporate entity, as if it hadn’t ibrox would not be full, the club will always remain, it is more than a bit of paper held at companies house and lives within us all….Had Celtic gone bust back their time of financial strife and reformed under a different corporate entity, would they be referred to as anything other than Celtic…of course not as it’s the club that the fans love, it’s the club that made history and that line cannot be broken. I will take the bad with the good, obviously this is the lowest moment in the history but we will need to deal with this,

      Yes, the history books will tell of these low days, however they may also tell in the future of a club that self imploded and managed to re-build itself, that chapter has yet to be written…..The process as begun and we try to move on, however it seems that some are simply not satisfied with this….So in light of this dissatisfaction, please spell out what punishment it is that you would like to see?

      • ecojon

        @Andy

        As I have said many times I hiope Celtic refuses to accept the tainted titles if they are stripped. far better just to amend the records for the years or should I say decades in question.

        No much better to impose a hefty fine as it is obvious that Rangers is rolling in cash and Green says it is so the moeny can be distributed among other SPL clubs and I’m sure they will all be grateful to Rangers.

        I got another great laugh from you saying that: ‘we were members of a club and still are, and that is what was transferred within the goodwill of old corporate entity to new corporate entity.’

        Why don’t you check facts before you engage your mouth – all that was paid for the Goodwill was £1 according to D&P. That is all the whole lot of you are valued at – £1 🙂

      • Brian J

        You have my sympathies Andy and I mean that honestly. Genuine Rangers fans are amongst those most spectacularly let dowwn by the previous owners. You cannot however have your cake and eat it. If the fan base insist on retaining the club and its history then it must take the bad history along with the good stuff.
        Ironically, had it not been for the insistance that the club is the same now as it was before the crash the SPL, SFA, EUFA and FIFA would not have the option to pursue investigations and further punishments. These organisations govern the club, if the club which perpetrated the wrongdoings no longer exists there endeth the story. The Rangers owners and fans insistance however that the club does still exist leaves these organisations with no option but to enquire into the alleged wrongdoings because of the scale and implications of what is alleged. To make it all go away they should have consigned Rangers FC to the history books and started afresh with Rangers 2012 (or some similar name) which could easily have publicly associated itself with the history and traditions of Rangers FC without any binding legal liability. It would have been a compromise, there is no doubt about that, but it would have drawn a line under the matter.

  23. Alan

    RANGERS FC ARE DEAD , LET’S MOVE ON EVERYONE!

  24. Timmy7

    Andy, I can only speak for myself and I can honestly say i have no bitterness towards the rangers fans I know – we may well have won more trophies, Scottish football may have thrived but we will never know for sure and i’m not going to let that bother me. But if people do feel bitter it may well be as a result of the attitude on display from a lot of rangers fans via the various forums etc. There is no doubt that your fans refused to listen, were happy to be conned but are now lashing out at those who have been cheated (or at least feel cheated by what’s gone on). The silent majority of non-bigoted, non-paranoid, fair minded rangers fans need to recue their club and start to build bridges with the rest of Scottish football.

    • Andy

      @Timmy7
      I do agree some attitudes haven’t been appropriate at times, however at the beginning I was pretty open minded and very accepting of things such as third division to start etc, but the bitterness, not you personally, from many on here has been relentless and they envisage Rangers as some form of evil besieging Scottish football…were not, we were badly run, have been burned by as you rightly say our ignorance to Murray then Whyte, and are now trying to re-build in division 3, as far as building bridges has gone so far we are filling the smaller teams games and all away teams at ibrox this season have been applauded off the park at the end (may have been different if they had won, but we shall see…) So were trying to do our bit, and when I suggest on here that the little money the SPL has should be invested in benefits for the game, particularly youth development, instead of being wasted on lawyers fees which will materially benefit no one but lawyers!! I am shot down in flames, and it’s all Rangers need punished etc etc they haven’t been punished enough, we need more…..It’s impossible to have it both ways, so what I am merely saying is for those that are bitter and would rather money is wasted in this manner, just name your demands so that we can all move on!!

      The bigots within our club are only given a platform from the bitterness that continues to be shown towards the club….

      It seems people are now annoyed that ibrox is hosting the top attendances in the country for league games, people are annoyed that we are signing SPL players? People are annoyed that Rangers players are playing for Scotland?…..We are trying to re-build, perhaps the rest of Scottish Football should do the same..

      • ecojon

        @Andy

        The paranoia meter is going off the scale – who is annoyed at Rangers attendances? All sorts of other clubs including SPL ones will make money out of it. I realise your own side are arguing over whether to boycot Ibrox and the M/well game but that is up to them I don’t have any interest in that.

        Why shouldn’t you sign ex-SPL players? Where are you getting all this guff or is it just things that appear in your head out of nowhere?

        Don’t worry about money spent in making sure members of associations adhere to the rule books because I have a feeling that one way or another that money will be clawed back from transgressors.

        You stick with this tired old line about being punished enough and don’t appear to understand or you just wilfully ignore the fact that just about everything that has happened have been automatic penalties that would apply to any club that got itself into the state that Rangers did – pure and simple. But no you have to lurch yet again and into this no one likes us rant.

        You state: ‘The bigots within our club are only given a platform from the bitterness that continues to be shown towards the club’. As usual it’s everyone’s fault except Rangers. Are you incapable of taking the moral high ground and ignore this alleged bigotry and show actually how superior you are. But of course you can’t because your fans are far more guilty of bigotry than those of any other team including Celtic.

        You are like a broken record and soon I won’t even bother responding to you as you are incapable of holding even a semblance of a reasoned debate.

        You just don’t get it do you – the regular posters on here like to exercise their mind by jousting with fellow posters we get no pleasure from hurling abuse or snide comments or wilfully misrepresenting the facts.

      • iain

        @ecojom

        “The paranoia meter is going off the scale – who is annoyed at Rangers attendances? ”

        I don’t know about annoyed…but I have saw some crack put state that most of the crowd are a “different sort of fan” from before and that loads of them didn’t even know where Ibrox was before they bought their tickets!!

        Yes! Someone really said that! ( A few times!)
        🙂

  25. mick

    if its pro irish celtic republician thoughts its a boycott how childish is the pro celtic side not to be told that to me makes the scottish sun and rangers fans who contacted them to also there is a massive stereo typeing going on in the msm its sick so phils a bigot for haveing a intrest in his irish roots his grand dad was in the old ra 100 years ago he is proud of who he is not a bigot any1 saying other wise is a racist and the scottish sun are egging it on

    whats wrong with living here and loving Ireland????

  26. mick

    glasgow irish loving the sevco spitting the dummy pmsl were no buying the sun hes a bigot lol

    Persecutory delusions

    Main article: Persecutory delusion

    Persecutory delusions are the most common type of delusions and involve the theme of being followed, harassed, cheated, poisoned or drugged, conspired against, spied on, attacked, or otherwise obstructed in the pursuit of goals. Persecutory delusions are a condition in which the affected person wrongly believes that they are being persecuted. Specifically, they have been defined as containing two central elements:[12][page needed]
    1.The individual thinks that harm is occurring, or is going to occur.
    2.The individual thinks that the persecutor has the intention to cause harm.

    According to the DSM-IV-TR, persecutory delusions are the most common form of delusions in schizophrenia, where the person believes they are “being tormented, followed, tricked, spied on, or ridiculed.”[13] In the DSM-IV-TR, persecutory delusions are the main feature of the persecutory type of delusional disorder. When the focus is to remedy some injustice by legal action, they are sometimes called “querulous paranoia”.[1
    schizos

  27. cam

    Well Paul ,you went on at length as usual and made, as usual ,a good counter arguement but i think the simple explanation is best.
    Mr PMG hosts a blog site on which he spouts thinly veiled bigotry and moderates replies whereby he permits sectarians terms like “hun” to be used.Many of his previous posts use terms like sub species,klan,trailer trash to describe Rangers fans and well you know it, having been on the entertainment circuit with him.Thats why he got ditched,,he is the author of his own downfall.
    The poor wee soul is gutted at having sclaffed the ball into his own net and being exposed by that doyen of journalistic integrity the Sun,as an improper journalist.Mr GBH will coin in a good few quid on the back of his copy and paste pamphlet and hopefully get himself some help with the proceeds.
    Unfortunately for him and quite a few others, the Rangers will survive,no final solution(see PMG’s blogsite) will be found for Gers fans,a team in blue and white followed by a huge fanbase will play at Ibrox and slowly but surely by the will of the people, Rangers will return bigger, better and stronger, wilth all of the lessons learnt from a good pasting fresh in their memory.
    Phil and many others who fired their torpedoes into the SS Rangers will in time, just like the Japanese learn that awakening a sleeping giant can have its consequences.

    • ecojon

      @cam

      Talk about delusions of grandeur 🙂

      We’re talking about a football club mate don’t you get it. A football club – it’s not a way of life and in the grans scheme of things it means nothing in a world where millions of kids starve every day and die of preventable diseases.

      Where innocents are slaughtered in places like Syria while the world stands idly by.

      And you get worked-up into an almost hysterical frenzy over a game of football. I really really pity you.

      • cam

        No grandeur is postulated,the Gers are a very mediocre outfit and have been for years but still good enough to pip that bastion of free flowing cavalier fitba,the Celts.
        The existence of the mighty Gers and their refusal to “go away” is obviously upsetting a few chaps in here but hey! deal with it.
        Hysteria?? i don’t see it in my post.I do see it when 60,000 Celtic fans watch their team drop a point or two against a lesser team.
        Then its time to lock the door and board up the windows,,,especially if you are a referee!
        Toodle pip.

    • Cregganduff

      cam

      “Many of his previous posts use terms like sub species,klan,trailer trash to describe Rangers fans”

      Going on the Rangers’ fans I have met in N. Ireland, I think that is a fair tending to kind description.

      “Phil and many others who fired their torpedoes into the SS Rangers will in time, just like the Japanese learn that awakening a sleeping giant can have its consequences.”

      Would you please grow up and try to communicate with people without threatening them.

      • cam

        Again like wee Phil you are guilty as charged on classing all Gers fans as .There is no threat implied,thats your mind at work.There is the factual statement that the sleeping bear has been awoken and the snipers,sweetie wives and agenda driven will have the spotlight shone upon them.
        I mean for me to class Celtic supporters as benefit scrounging tourists,terrorist lovers,and mutants would be outrageous?

    • mick

      @cam your statment “a huge fanbase will play at Ibrox and slowly but surely by the will of the people, Rangers will return bigger, better and stronger” makes you mentally ill you have a Delusional disorder,

      Indicators of a delusion
      he patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
      2.That idea appears to exert an undue influence on the patient’s life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
      3.Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
      4.The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
      5.There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
      6.An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
      7.The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient’s social, cultural and religious background.
      8.The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of their psyche.
      9.The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.
      10.Individuals who know the patient observe that the belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien

      Features

      The following features are found:[6]
      1.It is a primary disorder.
      2.It is a stable disorder characterized by the presence of delusions to which the patient clings with extraordinary tenacity.
      3.The illness is chronic and frequently lifelong.
      4.The delusions are logically constructed and internally consistent.
      5.The delusions do not interfere with general logical reasoning (although within the delusional system the logic is perverted) and there is usually no general disturbance of behavior. If disturbed behavior does occur, it is directly related to the delusional beliefs.
      6.The individual experiences a heightened sense of self-reference. Events which, to others, are nonsignificant are of enormous significance to him or her, and the atmosphere surrounding the delusions is highly charged

      • cam

        Michael,you obviously have the same penchant as wee Phil for copying and pasting,referencing other people work and humourless gibbering.
        You have previous for this and are therefore deemed henceforth as a terminal dullard.

  28. Jacko

    I’ve been utterly astonished at the reaction to Downfall.

    I have not read a single reasoned arguement anywhere against it’s content’s accuracy. In fact I would go so far as to say that not only do those on here and Amazon not seem to have read the book but their critique makes it apparent they have read few if any books. Look at the other reviews from almost any person on Amazon and whether pro or anti Downfall I can’t see a single one that has any other book reviews on which to judge the quality of their comment. You would almost think that they have simply signed up with some random, and sometimes poorly judged pseudonym, Micheal Stone says it all, to use in creating their comments.

    I had a wee look around Amazon to see if there is any other controversial book that elicits so much vitriol. I have to say Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf fares better than Downfall. Even it’s one star reviews are reasoned responses rather than just vitriol.

    C’mon- This is the 21st Century. At least it is in some places. Are we not past the book burning stage? At least read the book and provide a reasoned review based on what you actually read. Can’t you fools see that all this vitriol has done is to raise the profile and hence the books position on the best seller list. I rarely buy football related books. They tend to be pretty boring and badly written. There are many exceptions but generally they are not my subject of choice.

    I will certainly be buying Downfall and donating it to my local Oxfam bookshop for resale once I read it. I will then have the right to make reasoned comment on the content of the book rather than the character of the author.

    Truely There’s none so blind as those that won’t see.

    Read the book. You may actually learn something about the way RFC have done business in recent times and perhaps start to understand the feelings of all other fans, not just Celtic fans, against them.

    Jacko

  29. Andy

    @ecojon
    You are the most hypocritical person I have ever had the displeasure of encountering, you talk of taking the moral highground whilst refusing to see even acknowledge that Rangers are not the only club guilty of wrong doing.

    All hope is lost for your inhospitable bigoted mind, and if you are not to reply to me then I will be most glad of this, before you started writing your nonsense on here, I had enjoyed engaging Timmy7 in a reasonable debate, but yet here I am at it with you again…. I have no interest in your opinion as I treat it as truly worthless.

    I am not bigoted despite what you imply of me and for your information have spoken out at ibrox at games of those who have used terms such as not worthy of comment on here or anywhere else. I do not post on RM, but admittedly read it from time to time when a subject interests me, this is my right.

    I only seek answers as to why Celtic fans want Rangers to move on yet are unwilling to do so themselves, caught up in the past and still singing about terrorist groups….You have zero evidence to back up your theory that Rangers have more bigoted fans and that is all made up in your head which you try and impose on others. Both have large numbers of ‘bad’ fans, I thought the sickening anti-poppy banner should have been enough to highlight some of your own clubs problems!!

    You state that bigotry comes from the home, then I sure as hell hope you do not have children, as they there views will be seriously warped by your incredilous bigoted opinions.

    Look forward to your response, should be a worth a laugh…

  30. mick

    @ andy what do you make of me saying the sevco fans not them all though have a mental disorder a “delutional disorder “a have had it idependently stated via medic friends they agree negative press is the major factor and link to the diesease its wide spread in scotland

  31. mick

    @andy soz for being a pest but do you think rangers are a new club or do you think rangers have same history whats your take on it all

    • iain

      Of course Rangers have history!
      What a strange question.

      All those 50+ titles really happened!

      • Cregganduff

        iain

        “Of course Rangers have history!
        What a strange question.”

        Judge: Clerk of the court has the defendant any previous history?

        Clerk: Yes indeed your lordship. Over a hundred years of sectarian behaviour combined with thuggery and mayhem on a grand scale. Culminating with ten years of financial cheating of the exechquer, also he’s plain buck stupid and practically illiterate.

        Judge: Oh My God, not Rangers again

  32. mick

    @andy the anti poppy prade you cant make every1 support the poppy freedom of choice a remember that well young republicians held a demo at the side of the city chambers with placards and were beaten up by nazi types for challengeing the wars the kill there own in all wars are evil and any protest is welcome any were in the world war means death no 1 has the right to kill young men and women scotlands multi cuturial and war should not be made a big thing to hold events as its offencive to the people they shot and kill

    • Andy

      @mick
      Of course I would love to live in a world where war did not exist, but that is not where we live….So you do not feel that it is appropriate to offer our respect, prayers and thanks to those that died for your country when defeating nazi germany?? Had they not fought for this countries freedom then The freedom of speech that has been debated on here so heavily the past couple of days would not exist without their sacrifice!!

      • John Callachan

        Andy,
        I find it hard to believe anyone has anything but the greatest respect for the men and women who were injured and died for our freedom in both world wars.
        However, the poppy debate was never centred on either of these wars, the objection was against the inclusion of every war, including the invasions of countries who posed no threat to our country.
        I agree the soldiers can not be blamed for the decisions of corrupt politicians but some see the inclusion as an attempt to reenforce their attempted justification for those invasions.
        Since the inclusion, I have adopted the white poppy and am ashamed of a considerable number of wars our troops were\are forced into action, we are currently involved in two illegal wars and I do not believe those involved are fighting for our freedom.
        Had the inclusion not taken place I would still be wearing the red poppy.
        I do still pray for all those who fought for my freedom but I have had to think about who else, and I have concluded that the white poppy covers my sympathy better, all who die in war especially the innocent civillians.

        There is one more small point in the poppy debate, your club undermined our armed forces by witholding the revenues.
        I find it a bit rich any supporter of your club raising the poppy issue when your club paid nothing for the last ten years.

  33. Andy

    @mick
    I beleive the history remains as a club was founded in 1872 and the clubs earnt goodwill of being a club up until 1899, at which point the club was incorporated and the goodwill of the club added to the balance sheet. This lasted up until 2012 when a new corporate bought over the goodwill along with other assets…the price paid is irrelevant this is what happened.

    Now as part of that I am happy to accept punishments that come along with that, and I personally feel consequencial punishments thus far have been enough….however, it doesnt seem to appease enough people so lets go down the route of further punishment, and what I have asked today, is spell out exactly what you feel punishment should be if dual contracts were to be proven?

    And if unproven, would it bother you that the spl had spent money on an investigation of this sort which only materially benefits lawyers, rather than spend it on football?

  34. mick

    its a phenoix company sevco is ilegal and not there on merit its a cloned club companyhouse laws have been teared up here or have they its financial doping for a few egos to feel large the whole of scotland have been hoodwinked for 15 years its the biggest scandal in sport here ever

    • Andy

      @mick
      Okaaaaayyyy, thanks for the video, nice to get away from all this reading I guess.

      Though, I can’t help but notice that you have answered none of the 3 questions I asked?

      What punishment do you want?

      If dual contracts are unproven would you be annoyed that the spl had wasted money on this rather than investing in football?

      Do you not beleive that our ancestors that fought to keep this a free country deserve our respect?

      • mick

        @andy prison and confiscation orders thats reality andy ,rememberance is a good thing andy for any sholdier its just not right to ram poppys down celtic fans faces as some of our fan base is victims of the britsh not just here but in arabic countrys and south american might feel low by it also war and sport should be apart simple as that also the msm made a big deal out the poppy thing lots of celtic men die in britsh uniform to and celtic fans wear the poppy but some feel like me it was msm blackening celtic men

  35. charliedon

    @iain at 2.10pm

    This is not a Celtic blog. The author of the blog has openly told us he is an Albion Rovers fan. I contribute posts quite frequently and I am certainly not a Celtic supporter. I do detect that several contributors are of a Celtic persuasion – they don’t try to hide it. However, unlike yourself, I do seem to be able to get on quite amicably with the Celtic folk and have quite interesting and informative (for me anyway) discussions with them. Most of the information being posted here about the Rangers saga I find to be factual and evidence-based.
    Unlike the insulting rubbish you are writing.

    • mick

      its of legal matters of intrest and put up to debate by host and commenters every1 is welcome 99.9 are sensible lots of celltic fans come on as its a good source of info and today on celtic network kds said its the only place along with tsfm and phil are the only people looking at the paperchace also paul is rated over at pie and boveril and lots of other placese in all divisions hes a soccer name now in scotland via the net like phil ,

  36. mick

    campbell ogilvie whats his future roll in police enquirys gorden smith phil mentions this and highlights the facts the rtc is just the surface theres still the gamma level nuclear senario to come with the info the bloggers held back on theres massive articles to come on it all a just hope the bdo sell at aution scupper green and tesco step in simple

  37. Jacko

    Andy

    The necessity and hence the cost of the SPL investigation is because of what has been deemed a Prima Facie case to be answered by rangers. Do you suggest that the chance, likely or otherwise, of any legal case being proven is the deciding criteria on whether to proceed with an investigation. So investigations should only be carried out on cases that will be sure to be proven. That’s a pretty damning judgement on any future legal investigations if that were the case. They are investigating so the case must be proven already? I think the series of events in a court case, and with the rangers investigation, is generally a first look at the evidence is applied. If there appears to be something to answer that necessitates an investigation. We then see if there is an explanation for what is, at first inspection, evidence requiring answered. An investigation then proceeds and the relevant parties are given their chance to have their say.

    The cost is therefore a consequence of applying a fair process of investigating what looks to require explanation.

    Many criminal cases proceed on what is prima facie evidence. A case to answer is the term I believe. That case may well be answered satisfactorily with the inherent costs. That does not mean the money was wasted.

    As for punishment.

    It appears, though not yet proven, that rangers paid players in an underhand manner. In some cases rangers signed these players based on offering better terms due to, the yet to be proven, undeclared and underhand payents. Much as you may believe Nacho Novo was a rangers fan in the womb he did go to Celtic park for talks. The most likely reason is rangers offered better terms much as they did with Mojo. Had they not done so would Nacho have possibly signed for Celtic and not then been available to score the goal on helicopter sunday that snatched that title away. Many more examples are under investigation and IF the underhand payments are proven then the natural assumption is that these players would have gone elsewhere but for these extra payments. The result is that these players would be deemed to be incorrectly registered and games they were involved in are null and void. As I have said before I do not want such titles reawarded. They are the tainted titles if this proves to be the case. So punishment ? Withdrawl of all cups won if the means were unfair.

    Let’s say I steal a pile of cash. I then entice Ronaldo to play in my 5 a side team for a season. The league is amateur and no payments should be made at all. The nullifying of my 5 a side team’s results is not because I stole money. That is a criminal, or in this case HMRC, matter. The payments to Ronaldo are the issue that makes him illegally registered to play in my team. My team has any cups nullified and most probably we would be banned from that league. But I am a fair minded kinda guy so I am happy for rangers to stay in a league and work their way back up. Otherwise where would all these fans go ? Probably clog up the 1st tee at my golf club of a Saturday afternoon.

    • Andy

      @jacko
      Fair point, I would accept the stripping of titles if proven guilty. I totally accept your view on why the investigation is taking place, I just feel the money could be better spent on football rather than lawyers.

      • Jacko

        Andy

        I truley am, and not a word of a lie or sarcasm, overwhelmed that you do seem to see reason. Go forth. Spread the word. Let’s stop the abuse and make reasoned, well argued points and maybe we can then start to move on.

        Jacko.

  38. Timmy7

    Andy, this is my first chance to get back to you so I’ve put it down here rather than losing it further up. You are being slightly disingenuous talking about ‘ignorance’ regarding Murray and Whyte. Any ignorance was wilful. Information was freely available about both but rangers fans refused to listen. If there is bitterness towards rangers surely you can see that it is understandable; the policies employed by your club have brought Scottish football to its knees. Fans of teams not based in Glasgow have been denied the chance to see their team win trophies for twenty years. Even Celtic struggled to compete with the financially doped monster. The monetary advantage held by rangers was stretched to breaking point last year and, lo and behold, the trophies were spread across three teams.

    As for the bigots within your support; they ARE the public face of rangers. Until they are sidelined your team wi (all the newco stuff aside)ll never be rehabilitated.

    And, for what it’s worth, I believe your current guy, Green, is continuing in the Murray and Whyte tradition. It will all end in tears again.

    • Andy

      @Timmy7
      I can hold my hands up and albeit I was much younger, too young to really understand the value of money, and I was blissfully ignorant that Murray was overspending, I was brought up on laudrups, then van bronckhorsts so spending 4-5m on a player was just what was normal….obviously later on we had a few years of cutting the cloth a little and then WS came back and we invested got to a euro final (no ebts at this point) and the debt was being steadily reduced from 30m+ to around 16m, which wasnt far away from manageable, so ebt aside the club was getting itself back on safer financial footing….At this point, Murray and numerous experts were telling us that the ebts were legal and there was nothing to worry about, again perhaps wrongly, but blissful ignorance is where I was lead and so I beleived….I did not refuse to listen, I just wasnt told at this point…..When Whyte came along, I searched high and low on our mutual friend google and could find little of him, he didn’t even have a wikipedia page at this point, so I had huge concerns from the start with him and when the ex-board came out I was dead against whyte as we had no prove of his billionare status….I am rangers fan though, and cvery painful.

      Scottish football has played it’s part in it’s own downfall and had the option to keep Rangers in the Spl thus reducing financial risk. Scottish football, quite rightly, based on purely sporting grounds, decided that Rangers should start at the bottom…so any deteriotation of the game in this country because of lack of finance was voted for by the Spl, Rangers cannot be blamed for that choice. Unfortunately, for the spl clubs, the fans have not yet backed their words with actions and still clubs struggle for attendances high enough to make up the shortfall…is that Rangers fault, i dont think so? will the next club that falls into administration blame it on Rangers or shall they accept that they voted for their own downfall? Do you not feel the time for anger has been, and the time to move on is now?

      I have been to ibrox for every game this season and have not heard one bigoted chant or song – Surely the home fans are the face of the club, no??

      That view is shared by many Celtic fans, but they fail to understand that no one would offer Green the facilities to rack up such debt and he is in a position of having to, whether he wants to or not, run the club on a cash basis….the maxium wages at ibrox are now less than 10k a week, from havin players on 30k, the stadium is still full and there has been investor monies…where do you think all the money is? Maybe Green is running off with it, I obviously hope not, I looked forward to seeing next years accounts, and trust I will not leave myself open to my own ignorance in the future..

      • ecojon

        @andy

        I have spoken to many people skilled in accounting and bookeeping and they always exhibited caution over the accounts for a number of reasons and they included good Rangers men so even though I am not in a position to dispute the figures I heed hazard warnings that others flag-up.

        You state: ‘Scottish football has played it’s part in it’s own downfall’. I do hope that Rangers fans manage to shake off that nonsense. Even if Rangers and Celtic both disappeared Scottish Football would continue. It would be at a lower level but it would go on.

        Surely Rangers fans must be picking up some of the drive that SFL3 orgamising committees and officials have and a love and zest for the game even if they only get crowds of a few hundred. But they remain balanced in recognising that football is not a substiture for having no life outside of it – it is meant to be entertainment not warfare.

        Why are you so bothered about the finances of other SPL clubs – if they go the way of Rangers and stiff their creditors and the taxman then they will do well out of it. And please don’t think you are dealing with idiots on here as I reckon every poster on here, no matter what club they support, know that Rangers don’t give a sh*t about any other team.

        Clubs voted and they will have to live with the consequences of that vote and the clubs know that – that is the difference between them and Rangers who just kept printing the money as required till the banks pulled the shutters down.

        You state: ‘Do you not feel the time for anger has been, and the time to move on is now?’

        Whose angry – the only anger I see is from bile spewing Rangers supporters looking for someone to blame other than Rangers for their current position. As to moving on that is what happens every day. You may have 3/4 years of moving on through the lower leagues but all the clubs are moving on in some way or another although some could end up bust. But that’s life and in this day and age if your product is no longer wanted you eventually go bust.

        You state: I have been to ibrox for every game this season and have not heard one bigoted chant or song – Surely the home fans are the face of the club, no?’

        Well that’s not what your fellow posters are saying on rangers sites so perhaps you should turn your iPad down. Strangely enough the face of a club is often more accuraetly depicted by the away fans and I will reserve judgement to see what happens if Rangers suffers a critical defeat.

        I am amazed that you know that Green is running the club on a cash-basis as I really doubt if your club chairman has a clue on what basis the club is being run. Indeed I would think that only three people know on what basis the club is being run.

        Since you know so much why don’t you tell us where the money is. If Green gets his skates off with his AIM Flotation then he will be gone before next year’s accounts.

        I predict that in terms of Rangers upset then you ain’t seen nothing yet and I really do wonder if Rangers will survive even at SFL3 level. That’s not me being nasty but making a judgement which I believe to be balanced and fair and done without any hatred of Rangers. I have always made it clear that I firmly believe that it is good for Scottish Football as a whole to have a strong Rangers competing.

        The only caveat I have is that the bigotry must be cleared out and I’m not interested in excuses. No one at Ibrox has ever had the backbone to grasp the sectarian nettle because I think you would lose a significant number of supporters whose interest is not primarily in football.

    • ecojon

      @Timmy7

      I totally agree with you that it will end in tears but next time I don’t believe there will be any assets left. If I am correct then the Rangers support might actually finally learn the difference between the holding company, operational companies, the club and secured debenture holders.

      The Rangers support also weren’t ignorant of the financial doping which was taking place as their FF element challenged Murray in Public at AGMs and in print about the obvious blsck-hole in the accounts and lack of transparency.

      The majority of the support chose not to listen and were in thrall to the Murray Millions. Of course it was a different story when he turned the financial tap off because by that time a generation of fans had become addicts to success. I knew that the 9 in a row generation would come to serious grief at some point when the wheels came off the wagon. It was obvious to anyone with an ounce of sense.

      But what did the Scottish Media do? They ignored the obvious and I don’t think Celtic supporters were paranoid with the explanation that they arrived at. That’s what happens when you get a good Catholic Education with a touch of socialism thrown in.

  39. mick

    @timmy7 financially doped monster best saying a have heard yet very stable comment your certianlly not deluded old co newco sevco tempco newco tesco thats the national view apart from the deluded sevco rfc tribute act

  40. mick

    they strangled the new firm and took the life out of the competion via brown envolopes its the paperchace now lol pmsl confincation and barl awaits lol

  41. mick

    “phonoix company” after liquidation same the lot only phrase that springs to mind

  42. mick

    1 blink and your gone over phil totally baffeled by that ,the msm glorifiy gangsters in glasgow they get more spread and attention than anti drug messages its a shocking reality and a slap in the face of innocent victims

  43. carl31

    Something just occurred to me (excuse my slowness)…
    The Sun agreeing to serialisation in the first place means some form of legal verification must have been carried out on the content. I dont know for sure but I bet the content was not ‘testimony’ but instead ‘argument’. So the Sun will currently be in posession of legal opinion on argued content of the book, which will be positive and basically OKs it.
    Is there any way this could be brought into the open as it would be interesting to debate?

    • ecojon

      @carl31

      Even though the book wasn’t printed at that stage there would have been a proof copy. But I feel it would have been unlikely that a lawyer ‘legalled’ the entire book. What they would have legalled was what was going to be printed.

      Anything that was ‘dodgy’ in a legal sense would be written out – serialisations aren’t chapter and verse in any case so that’s how it would have been done.

      So I really don’t think there’s any mileage there 😦

  44. mick

    theres no bigots at celtic were antibigoted and universial a republician is not a bigot that the msm would never tell you celtic have a great reputation and its only sevco that doubt this

    • ecojon

      @mick

      ‘antibigoted’ is a cracker! Wee Fergus most certainly didn’t stand for bigotry that’s for sure.

      • mick

        hi ecojon am back for the paperchace its well a can of worms that refuse to go under the carpet its a big month ahead the last thing msm would do is discredit sevco with phils book unreal events indeed

  45. mick

    Has anyone seen anything to suggest that the Trademarks owned by The Rangers Football Club plc were actually purchased by Sevco.

    Although Trademarks were listed in the CVA proposal (as a fixed-charge asset), there is nothing I have seen, that says they were actually sold.

    If this is correct, Sevco are either trading under a name/crest/badge that they do not own or were gifted these trademarks for free by D&P.

    Remember, they did not buy the club – only assets listed in the sale

  46. JimBhoy

    @Andy i try to watch a lot of footie and have heard the billy boys and a song similar to the famine song at the last rangers home game…To be honest i really don’t give a sh!t, it will never go away and it doesn’t offend me it is just football tribalism and the Celts do the same mainly away glorifying some Irish sh!t. My family line is from Co Monaghan and Fife protestant Presbyteria. I love Celtic/Rangers banter in my boozer, I hate people who try to shove that down your throat or have the tattoos, either way i do not associate with that.
    My family, 3 kids would not use any sectarian words and we have a ton of mixed religious kids, pals etc and I take an under 14s boys team that i would die for anyone of them, most being Rangers fans, means fukall to me.. I want to make a difference to these boys in so many ways.

    Parents have got to make a difference, i am sick when i see kids dressed in the full regalia spouting the orange walk stuff and before you go off, check my previous posts on the whole walks thing…

    We are all Scot’s men and women, I just lost a good old proddie rangers pal 2 weeks ago that could not do enough for my family (I am not catholic), he loved the rangers, I bought and placed a rangers top on the big fella’s coffin.

    • Andy

      @Jimbhoy
      I literally do not give a sh*t either about any song that someone sings, however as bigoted songs give bigots a voice I feel they should not be sung, anywhere. If you heard such songs it certainly wasnt in the masses… So im not really sure what your point is?

      What I have said on here, is if people are still upset at Rangers then name the punishment that will let them be at ease with the situation (some decent responses), that I beleive we should respect the memory of our soldiers that fought in world war 2 rather than display offensive banners on their 1 day a year of rememberance, that I beleive integrated schools would help curb attitudes that may well stem from home and that I beleive Rangers financially will be fine…..I post on here to give the ‘other’ side of story but some people do not want to or choose not accept that any opinion from my side could be anything with out an agenda. All I actually care about is the football, however I will defend my club where I feel it is been misrepresented as the cause of all problems, where others fail to accept their own failings or consequence of their own choices.

      Good luck with the football team though, I run an amateur football team, and great place to get funding upto £2k is from lottery fund, link below:

      http://www.awardsforall.org.uk/scotland/

      Generally speaking if you have an established club with a bank account, and your motives are all about getting people involved and active then you should qualify for some form of funding.

  47. mick

    jim that was a fantastic view theres millions of prodestant men like you that are celtic

    • mick

      @jim in glasgow most young celtic prodestants feel left out of there culture as they are seen as tims sport cant cliam a religion its unfair in modern society sevco cant cliam to be prodestant as they are new club the old club had good prodestant roots which were hijacked by bigots

    • JimBhoy

      Mikalos (pie fella) I am not protestant, brought up catholic as are my three kids but i would be defying the big man if i said i was catholic… Means fukall to me i love my Irish heritage but my Bothers kids are proddies and rangers, i love them , my second sisters family are all proddies and rangers, my youngest sis has an eclectic mix and my oldest sis are all celtic, in fact her boy has played pro footie for many scottish and english teams… I am not even sure i felt offended u called me proddie mick, i love the Celtic went thru a stupid pro ira thing late 70’s wi my influential pals but i now promote a healthy life and footie and it costs me to do that…

      anyone out there who could sponsor a team I would love to hear from ya. I am not a rich man but i bought our last set of strips last year not that the manager knows that, shhhh!!!!, boys grow..! 500 quid but it’s tight these days…Anyways Go On the Scots at the Weekend..!!!

      • mick

        @jimbhoy advertise your team on the celtic network and kds for donations of materials a bet you get a good reponse also pie and bovril are good bet the sport funds to give it a bash via emails see wit happens

  48. mick

    Treatment of delusional disorders includes a combination of drug therapy and psychotherapy although it is a challenging disorder to treat for many reasons such as the patient’s denial that they have a problem of a psychological nature.
    they should give out the med at ticket office to keep us all safe its not a easy illness to treat ave debated this and looked at it for months its a factual illness and most sevco fans have some level of it

    • JimBhoy

      will do thanks Michael, take care dude hail hail

      • JimBhoy

        Most of the boys are rangers fans though! I keep telling them if they play like that Celik will pick them up…. They love that as you can imagine,…. I have never seen/heard anything OF related in my team< i love that and i don't have to threaten too much 😉

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s