The Rangers Charity Foundation (RCF), established in 2002, has since then a proud record of helping many charitable causes.
The charity’s own website details many of these admirable activities.
The Scottish Charity Register entry for the RCF records the object and purposes of the charity.
Its object is as follows:-
“The Trustees shall hold the Trust Fund and the income of it to pay and apply the same to or for the benefit of or in furtherance of such purposes, objects or institutions charitable in law and in such proportions and manner as the Trustees shall think fit. In exercising their discretion in terms of this Clause the Trustees shall give primary consideration to the wishes of those persons who gift or lend funds to the Foundation but this proviso shall impose no binding obligation on the Trustees.”
According to the RCF website, the Trustees are Craig Whyte, Martin Bain, John Greig and Jacqueline Gourlay. The website may not be up to date. Mr Bain is of course suing Rangers for breach of contract caused by Mr Whyte’s ill-guarded public comments. Mr Greig resigned as a Director of the football club, complaining about a lack of involvement and transparency. Any meetings of the Trustees might have had just a touch of an unpleasant atmosphere, although I am sure the professionals round the table would put personal differences aside for the goals of the charity.
These issues have not stopped the RCF continuing to support its purposes, which are, as recorded in the Register and on the RCF website:-
- Prevention or Relief of Poverty
- Advancement of Education
- Advancement of Health
- Advancement of Citizenship or Community Development
- Promotion of Equality and Diversity
- Relief of Those in Need By Reason of Age, Ill Health, Disability, Financial Hardship or Other Disadvantage
Over the last seven years, the RCF’s income has totalled in excess of £1.9 million, much of which has gone out to support a whole range of worthy and deserving projects, both in the local area surrounding Ibrox, and wider afield too.
As the RCF website records:-
“The Rangers Charity Foundation (Scottish Charity Number SC033287) exists to bring Club, supporters, staff and players together in a unique way to help make the world of difference to thousands of lives through a range of charitable work. Being a champion of charitable giving is our goal, and since our creation in 2002 we have donated over £910,000 in cash awards and over £1,423,000 of in-kind support to hundreds of groups and individuals, making a combined total of over £2.3 million.”
For this season the RCF’s focus is as follows:-
“For Season 2011/12 the Rangers Charity Foundation worked with Community Partner Erskine, National Charity Partner The Prostate Cancer Charity and International Partner, UNICEF to deliver significant projects that provide a lasting legacy and make a real difference where support is needed most. For the Foundation, working with each organisation to really understand and support their key aims and objectives is as important as fundraising and handing over a cheque at the end of the relationship.”
The Rangers Charity Foundation is a very good thing, which has done many good works.The charity, whilst clearly being very closely linked to the football club is a distinct and separate entity.
Even amidst the troubles at Rangers FC, the RCF continues, and a glamour friendly match had been arranged to take place on 30th March at Ibrox between the Rangers Legends and the AC Milan Glorie.
As the RCF website reported previously:-
“THE RANGERS CHARITY FOUNDATION can confirm that Paul Gascoigne will pull on a light blue jersey again to face AC Milan Glorie at Ibrox Stadium…But Gazza’s decision to pull on his boots again is a massive coup for the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation as both will benefit from the funds raised from the Legends game and dinner…Adult tickets cost £10 each, with concession / children’s tickets costing £5 each.”
The header on that piece is as shown below.
Matters seem to have changed since Rangers entered administration however. The RCF website and the official Rangers website both contain the same statement now regarding the match.
The RCF page with that story on it has the following picture. You can see what has disappeared, as is made clear in the text.
This states as follows (extracts only):-
“Rangers Football Club has confirmed the glamour legends friendly with AC Milan Glorie at Ibrox Stadium on Friday 30 March 2012 will go ahead with revenue from the match being split between the Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation.
The Rangers Charity Foundation has offered to forego the majority of its share of the proceeds following the crucial support the charity has received from the Club over the last 10 years and funds raised will help secure the future of the Rangers, which is vital at this time.
Tickets go on sale to season ticket holders from Tuesday, 28 February with a public sale the following Monday and can be purchased on-line by clicking here. Tickets are priced £12 for adults, £8 for concessions and £6 for children…
Rangers Manager Ally McCoist commented: “It is a tremendous gesture by the Rangers Charity Foundation to forego the majority of the proceeds of the legends match to benefit the Club…”
Connal Cochrane, Manager of the Rangers Charity Foundation, said: “The Club and the Rangers fans have been tremendous to the Foundation over the last 10 years and now it is our turn to stand alongside them and Step Up For Rangers.
“The Rangers Charity Foundation suggested the Club should now benefit from the match and we were delighted that the AC Milan Foundation agreed.
“The Foundation has received unparalleled support from Rangers over the last 10 years and many thousands of lives have been improved in Scotland and beyond because of the Club’s support for our work.”
Legendary Manager Walter Smith commented: “The most important thing about the game is it will bring in money for the Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation…
Paul Clark, joint administrator at Duff & Phelps, said: “The fans have been absolutely tremendous and we are encouraged by their reaction to the Club’s current situation.
“It goes without saying, it is absolutely vital to the administration process that fans continue to support the Club directly by coming to Ibrox. Right now, it is quite simple – income generated now will help secure the future of Rangers.”
(All emphases added)
Now I may be wrong, but it looks to me as if the RCF has decided to give a lot of money back to Rangers – “the majority of the proceeds” being the phrase used.
That looks to be very admirable, but is, I think, unlawful.
Let’s go back to the Object of the Trust. It is to use funds “for the benefit of or in furtherance of such purposes, objects or institutions charitable in law”. (Emphases added)
Is it a matter deemed by law to be charitable to give the proceeds of a charity match to a commercial organisation as, effectively, a donation!
I do not think that the RCF is acting in accordance with its purposes, unless a very broad brush is applied as regards “Relief of Those in Need By Reason of … Financial Hardship”.
There is no doubt from all of the quotes above that, effectively, this match has now turned into a fundraiser for Rangers Football Club PLC (In Administration).
I am not surprised that Messrs McCoist and Smith are singing the praises of the match, and the idea that this will assist Rangers. After all, they are not experts in the rules of charities, I suspect.
However, the fact that both the manager of RCF and the joint administrator are in favour seems to me to be rather odd. Surely both of them would have the requisite knowledge, or at worst access to advice.
It is also of interest how the RCF Trustees arrived at their decision to change the purpose of the funds collected at this game.
One assumes that the effect of this decision is to reduce the sums payable to the three charitable partners of RCF for this season – Erskine Hospital, The Prostate Cancer Charity and UNESCO.
It is for others to argue the morality of a charity, even one as closely connected to Rangers as RCF, deciding to donate some of its funds to assist a private business which is in administration, caused by years of over spending, alleged financial mismanagement, and facing an enormous tax bill, as a result of what may well be ruled an illegal tax reduction scheme.
As far as the legality of the move goes, it seems entirely wrong (a) that the Trustees of RCF have decided to do this and (b) that the administrator is welcoming the move.
One wonders of the administrators have already told RCF that the charge for using Ibrox for the game has increased. When first announced, tickets were to be £10 for adults and £5 for children and concessions. Now they are stated to be £12 for adults, £8 for concessions and £6 for children.
It may well be that the previous rates would have resulted in a loss for Rangers in staging the game for RCF, and therefore an increase in the ticket price is justified to avoid the administrators incurring net debt, but on top of that to be sharing in the proceeds?
The Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR) publishes guidance for Trustees, as they are the people liable for failures to follow the rules.
That guidance states, at page 11:-
“Charity trustees should carry out their duties in accordance with the specific terms of their
charity’s constitution or governing document. The constitution or governing document will set out
the aims of the charity and the powers it has to act, and will include provisions for how the
charity is to be run.
Charity trustees must ensure that:
• all the activities of the charity fall within the objects, aims or purposes as stated in the
constitution or governing document of the charity
• the charity adheres to the terms of its constitution or governing document
• the charity’s assets are only used for the charitable purposes set out in the constitution or governing document”
At page 25 the guidance states that:-
“If there is evidence of misconduct, OSCR has a statutory duty to act, and will do so according to the principles of good regulatory practice. Quite what happens will depend on the seriousness of the circumstances. OSCR will be proportionate in its approach and offer, where appropriate, compliance support to charity trustees who have difficulties with understanding or fulfilling their obligations.”
It can be a criminal offence for a Trustee to act inappropriately as regards their legal duties.
I am sure that the Trustees of RCF have simply been caught up by the desire to help the body which, after public support, has been its main source of funds since it was founded. The problem is that it appears very suspicious, even if M<r Whyte had no hand in the decision, that the charity of which he is Chairman has agreed to make over a substantial sum, not to a charity but to the business owned 85% by one of Mr Whyte’s companies, and which is presently in administration!
One hopes that no one feels the need to report the matter to the OSCR. Especially where the mistake will have come about through a genuine desire to help Rangers .
Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville 
More ‘Free advice’ Paul! Is this ‘Pro bono publico’?
Lol 😉
You and your fellow blogger’s hatred for Rangers has simply staggered me.
Absolutely incredible.
I’ve actually seen some decent articles by yourself and the RTC blog over the past few months but from time to time the mask slips and the bitterness comes oozing out.
Breaking charity rules? Dear God………
Jeemy,
Thank you for your kind words.
Can I assure you I don’t have “hatred” for Rangers nor do I think I have bitterness, or indeed anything “oozing” out.
You will have read my praise here for the charity, and a couple of days ago for the stance of the Rangers security chief. Credit where credit’s due.
However in what way is it bitterness or hatred to want some very worthy charities to get what they were promised?
I have no problem with a Rangers fan saying they’d rather give to the club than to charity, though I’d disagree. However the Trustees run the risk of heaping more unnecessary prblems on Rangers. Perhaps coverage will persuade them to do the right thing.
Dear “Wee Jimmy”
rangers have already fallen foul (sic) of one tax avoidance scheme – do you really want them to heap a further one on themselves….. ? ????
Charities DONT PAY TAX !!!!!!
if a charity raises money (and does not pay tax) and then gifts that to Rangers – is this tax avoidance?
As ever Paul throws a drowning rangers supported a lifebelt – and the dolt (in this case the drowning fan) heeds the lifesaver (both senses) into touch – and continues to drown with his defiant two fingers raised for all to see as he sinks beneath the waves…..
poetic ? justice ???
wee jimmy – take a chill people – this is help…. ignore it at your peril – cos 1 year ago folk like you crowed that paul was sooooooo wrong – and he has turned out to be sooooooo right.
Truth quite often hurts!
That said, the great work done by the Rangers Charity Foundation has been recognised by many inside and outside of football, including many, many, Celtic minded people.
This unfortunately will not be one of them!
Wee Jeemy ..”.Breaking charity rules? Dear God………”
You’re correct to say that. rules are clearly defined by OSCR…also if the charity wanted to makes changes to what is already agreeded one would imagine a new constitution would have to be drafted……
Why do you think it is bitterness people highlighting potential problems? I would actually view this as people acting responsibly. Do we really want to see more fines for Rangers mounting up?
Well most of us have heard the statement “Charity begins at home” – however for me this is just a wee bit over the top, I have a couple of issues.
First point is the administrators allowing this to go ahead, is this part of their remit – how do Dunfermline, Dundee Utd etc feel about this ?
For AC Milan to come to Glasgow I would assume Rangers will arrange their accomodation and perhaps even the travel – maybe in this case they won’t but I can’t see Milan’s representatives calling up and booking hotel rooms for their “Glorie”
Finally the price changes, which incidentally are still different dependant on where you look.
Anyway I do not even know that it will go ahead – will it require policing ??
First of all let me start by saying this is my first reply and also by saying I love your blogs, I’ve only started reading since Rangers FC were placed in administration and have found your posts as the most insightful and detailed out there.. Now that’s out the way I’m glad to say that when I seen this story break on TV I immediately though “something can’t be right there” and as you rightly ask. Is it unlawful? I would say yes. Now I am a simple man I currently study engineering at college at HND level so business and legal matters generally fly over my head but even then I can’t help but think that in its simplest form this is a charity with obligations and such donating money to a failing business that is under investigation for tax evasion and possibly fraud.. I personally am confused by this, then again I am baffled by just about everything that has happened in this administration. It would appear to me (and I’m sure you have covered this elsewhere) that there is something that doesn’t add up with duff and phelps. I am not accusing them of not doing a professional job or failing to meet the obligations as officers of the court, however, thers seems to be a lot of stuff going on here that doesn’t sit tru with other football administratons I’ve seen. In the cases of dundee, gretna, motherwell and livingston there was immediate cost cutting across the whole business’ however here with Rangers were over 2 weeks into administration and yet to see any of the typical cuts you would see elsewhere? (With the excepton of messers smith and russel) now I am a celtic fan and these views anyway else would simply be tagged as “paranoia” (which is why I am delighted to have found this blog) but I find it alarming at the leniencey that has been shown to Rangers in terms of goverment support ect… I guess these points could prove invalid if as I expect Rangers go to wall but that being said this whole process seems unusual at every turn.
Wee Jeemy is spot on I’m afraid.
What a laughable excuse for a serious piece.
Simply yet another attack on Rangers dressed up as ligitimate legal opinion.
As for the thrust of the piece, a simple explanation to the complaints which this and the social workers piece will illicit is that the RCT is not giving money to Rangers. Simply that Rangers will give the RCT less than they would have done previously.
Pretty easy to understand really…if you have no axe to grind.
so they (Rangers FC {IN ADMINISTRATION} ) either misled, fooled, lied to the support, either misled, fooled, lied to the Italian Charity/AC Milan, that this was an effort to raise money for charity. (with the ENTIRE proceeds going to charity)
Why not call a spade a spade? Not when its a pitch fork?
As a couple of posters have highlighted. You should appreciate the lifeline PMcC has thrown your support.
Who has been misled or fooled?
No tickets were sold under previous arrangements. The Milan foundation will receive the same as they would have had received previously and have agreed to appear under the new conditions.
There is plenty to be going on with for Rangers haters around the present situation at the club.
This is a non-story.
Iain, I feel your pain.”Rangers haters”? bit paranoid?
See the extract I posted below which clearly states the match is being organised by the trust FOR CHARITY!
It has already been pointed out to you that the extract you have posted is out of date, predates administration and that no sales were made under those conditions.
Being polite…you may be being disengenuous in repeatedly reffering to it.
I ask again…given that no sales were made previously, and that AC millan’s charitable trust, the RCT, the players involved have agreed to the new conditions, and that sales are now being made under the new conditions…just who is being fooled? It’s a simple question.
Iain,
not being disingenuous. That is still on the Charity website.
further, the “revisionism” that has taken place is pitiful. It still states that it is a CHARITY MATCH!
Which Charity would that be? Rangers FC PLC (IN ADMINISTRATION)
Why don’t they just make it clear and state their considered legal position and state that the match is now just a fundraiser to attempt to save Rangers FC PLC (IN ADMINISTRATION)
All PMcC has done is highlight the potential issue as far as I can see.
“AC Milan Legends Charity Match And Dinner
Legends Step Up For Rangers
Rangers Football Club has confirmed the glamour legends friendly with AC Milan Glorie at Ibrox Stadium on Friday 30 March 2012 will go ahead with revenue from the match being split between the Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation.
The Rangers Charity Foundation has offered to forego the majority of its share of the proceeds following the crucial support the charity has received from the Club over the last 10 years and funds raised will help secure the future of the Rangers, which is vital at this time.
Tickets go on sale to season ticket holders from Tuesday, 28 February with a public sale the following Monday and can be purchased on-line by clicking here. Tickets are priced £12 for adults, £8 for concessions and £6 for children and supporters will be able to see a host of Rangers and AC Milan legends in action on the hallowed turf.
Hospitality packages are also available from £99 plus VAT by contacting the Sales Team on 0871 702 1972 or emailing hospitality@rangers.co.uk.
The Rangers Legends side will be managed by Walter Smith and captained by Richard Gough while Italian defensive legend Franco Baresi captains AC Milan Glorie in what is sure to be a night to remember at Ibrox.
Ally McCoist, Brian Laudrup, Paul Gascoigne, Andy Goram, Lorenzo Amoruso, Jorg Albertz, Michael Mols, Arthur Numan will all pull their boots on once again at the Stadium while Baresi’s squad boasts world-class talent like Paolo Maldini, Jean-Pierre Papin, Christian Panucci, Gianluigi Lentini and Zvonimir Boban.
Rangers Manager Ally McCoist commented: “Over the last few weeks our fans around the world have shown how much this great club means to them and the numbers who turned out at Ibrox for the recent Kilmarnock game and at Inverness yesterday is testament to their depth of feeling for Rangers.
“It is a tremendous gesture by the Rangers Charity Foundation to forego the majority of the proceeds of the legends match to benefit the Club and it is going to be an evening of nostalgia for all the fans, players and supporters.”
Connal Cochrane, Manager of the Rangers Charity Foundation, said: “The Club and the Rangers fans have been tremendous to the Foundation over the last 10 years and now it is our turn to stand alongside them and Step Up For Rangers.
“The Rangers Charity Foundation suggested the Club should now benefit from the match and we were delighted that the AC Milan Foundation agreed.
“The Foundation has received unparalleled support from Rangers over the last 10 years and many thousands of lives have been improved in Scotland and beyond because of the Club’s support for our work.”
Legendary Manager Walter Smith commented: “The most important thing about the game is it will bring in money for the Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation and when I was asked to manage our side I had no hesitation in accepting.
“It should be a fantastic occasion and for every Rangers fan it is one to get excited about. When you look at the Milan squad we are talking about some of the greatest footballers of all time. Over the period they have had so many great players and it will be fantastic to welcome them all to Ibrox.”
AC Milan Glorie captain Franco Baresi commented: “I wish to offer my support to Rangers Football Club and the Rangers Charity Foundation in my capacity as Captain of AC Milan Glorie.
“We are all looking forward to attending the official dinner on Thursday 29 March and can’t wait to play in front of what I hope will be a capacity crowd inside Ibrox Stadium on Friday 30 March to help raise funds but also to play in a friendly, competitive game at the highest level.”
Paul Clark, joint administrator at Duff & Phelps, said: “The fans have been absolutely tremendous and we are encouraged by their reaction to the Club’s current situation.
“It goes without saying, it is absolutely vital to the administration process that fans continue to support the Club directly by coming to Ibrox. Right now, it is quite simple – income generated now will help secure the future of Rangers.”
Tickets for the Legends Dinner at the Radisson Blu on Thursday 29 March 2012 are also on sale for £100 each, or £1,000 for a table of ten, and can be booked by contacting the Rangers Charity Foundation on 0141 580 8775 or by e-mailing rangerscharity@rangers.co.uk.
The dinner, hosted by Jim White, will provide an opportunity to meet some of the stars taking part in the game and hear interviews and anecdotes, as well as enjoying a sumptuous 3 course meal and wine. The Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation will also benefit from this event.
The match has been organised in conjunction with Carl Dunn Sports Management Limited, who represent AC Milan Glorie within the UK. “
Once more you refer to an out of date and replaced doccument.
Why would you do that?
Sorry, my mistake I now see that you have actually reffered to the current statement on teh game.
I do not though see it being reffered to as a charity match anywhere in the piece you have pasted.
In fact it is clearly stated where the proceeds are going.
“AC Milan Legends Charity Match And Dinner”
This bit perhaps?
I think it would be a hard push to argue that the top headline is in anyway contradictory to the body of the piece, where the distrobution of the monies is mentioned several times.
To any reasonable person “an officious bystander” even it is clearly evident what the arrangements are.
Interesting point regarding the legal duties of such a charity. There is of course a danger of taking a short-term view in that, of course the RCF could claim full entitlement to their share of the profit from the legends match and this would be fine in itself. It is wise however to put the football club which contributes so generously to the foundation at risk?
By helping to secure the future of Rangers Football Club the RCF are in turn essentially securing future charitable contributions from the club.
This may be an overly simplistic view however I feel that the general principle and notion behind it is logical and would probably be reasonable enough to stand up to the laws that you refer to in the article.
@RobertWalker – with regards to how Dundee Utd and Dunfermline might feel in relation to this, surely by bringing in more money to RFC the administrators are trying to benefit all creditors (including the mentioned clubs) as per their duties and requirments.
Could be that they are but I would doubt very much that this game will provide the teams we have mentioned with much comfort at this time, I just think that the administrators have their priorities wrong, and I notice you did not question my second concern – so would you be thinking along my lines on that ?
simple question.
Can a PLC (regardless of its situation) accept a ‘donation’ of funds (or diversion of funds) from a registered charity?
Which PLC are you talking about which are accepting funds from a charity?
What is illegal about a charity refusing to accept [all of] a donation? Or do you have evidence that they were already given this donation and have returned some of the funds? Thought not.
First of all Mr.McConville the RCF approached RFC with this proposal before any tickets had been on sale for a charity football match. Secondly as RFC have supported the RCF many times over the years with their fundraising the Charity Foundation though that because of this support that it would be an appropiate gesture by the Foundation to give some support back to the club at this time. Subsequently the game has became in part a fundraiser for charity and support for a club having severely bad financial times. Now in all honesty can you or anyone else really see the harm in what in reality is a charitable act towards a football club by a charity. It is an absolute disgrace that people,such as yourself,would show such a bitter and bigoted attitude against what is after all a sporting institution with a proud history and which has brought much needed income over many years to the Scottish game.
this. Except for those people who would love to see the club going out of existence for their own bigoted reason why would any straight minded person be against this charitable act by the RCF.
Dear Youngsy,
“… can you or anyone else really see the harm in what in reality is a charitable act towards a football club by a charity. ”
Well, yes, because it is ILLEGAL for that to happen.
“a charitable act towards a football club by a charity” is not allowed when said football club is actually a limited company. Charities in their very nature can’t bail out companies, regardless of the good intentions behind the act, mostly due to TAX rules.
I actually understand why many Rangers fans think this should be allowed, but the law on this is incredibly clear. It’s an absolute non-starter.
“… a sporting institution with a proud history and which has brought much needed income over many years to the Scottish game.”
Except it’s also not paid it’s income tax, therefore taking more out of Scotland than it originally put into the “Scottish Game”.
“… why would any straight minded person be against this charitable act by the RCF.”
Regardless of one’s personal footballing viewpoint, the RCF and other such charities do amazing and often unheralded work; and I gladly thank everyone who gives to charities such as this.
But you miss the point Sir. In simple Layman terms: A Charity is an audited organisation with increased legal constraints about what it can do with its money, in return for some reduced constraints regarding the monies it pays to the taxman.
i.e. If you stick within certain boundaries, you can use more money than a limited company.
Your quote, that this is a “charitable act by the RCF” is both accurate and the issue. It is illegal for a charity that has a tax-relief status to give directly or indirectly to a limited company, which Rangers FC (in administration) is.
And please, before anyone suggests that Rangers FC (in administration) are running the event in question, and donating the money to the RCF (though donating a smaller percentage than previously planned) – they cannot do that. You see, Rangers FC (in administration) are prohibited from releasing funds to 3rd party companies that are not “secured creditors”, or “essential to the continued existence of the limited company” (see: Administration Act 1992 for reference).
To clarify:
1. If Rangers FC (in administration) run the event and donate raised money to the RCF, it is in breach of the administration laws.
2. If RCF run the event and donate money to Rangers FC (in administration), then it is in breach of the Charity regulations.
I know that may seem harsh to many of you, but those are the laws of our land, all known and signed up to by BOTH organisations. I would think that for any Rangers FC (in administration) fan, you would want to steer clear of any legal issues right now; especially those that are classed as “tax avoidance”!
OK in your clearly knowledgable opinion, if the RCT agreed to RFC charging far more to stage the event than previously, and this is what is leading to RCT receiving less money would you say that takes care of the problem of a business in administration giving money to RCT or of RCT giving money to Rangers?
The answer of course is yes.
Hi Ian,
You are correct, up to a point.
I believe the actions that you have described is how the game and payments are now planned, and on the surface, this would satisfy the laws mentioned above.
It does though raise 2 issues, that are somewhat interlinked.
Given the overlap of RCF Trustees as (ex?) Board Members of Rangers FC (in administration), there is the potential for a conflict of interest to be displayed if Rangers FC (in administration) were to suddenly increase their costs of hosting the event to an un-competitive level.
e.g. If Rangers FC (in administration) were do more than raise the cost of the hosting the event to more than just removal of any discount.
The trustee’s of RCF have a legal obligation to act in the best interests of RCF at all times, and putting on an event that would earn them very little money does not fall into that category. In fact it would fall foul of the last 3 items in the Charity registration trustee guidelines.
It’s the first and third items there that can potentially cause legal issues, as if Rangers (in administration) are charging more money and the RCF are ok with it, then it is effectively using RCF’s assets for non-charitable purposes (where in this instance, the RCF’s asset is the game itself)
The long and the short of it is this…
I totally understand why RCF, and fans of Rangers FC (in administration), want to help out as much as possible with keeping their club going. But any mixing of charitable organisations and limited companies is a legal minefield at the best of times, and when the limited Company is either in administration or facing a tax investigation the two should avoid each other like the plague.
As a huge fan of the work that all charities do, and having faced this type of conversation on numerous occasions in the last 10 years (Motherwell, Gretna, Livingston, Portsmouth, Portsmouth again) I can not stress this enough: RCF SHOULD NOT GET INVOLVED.
Kevinjohn…your reply makes two assumptions.
1: That RCT are arranging the event. Are they?
2: That they have agreed that more is taken in costs than is reasonable. Have they?
It is for instance , perfectly possible that the original provision of the stadium was at a substantially reduced rate, perhaps far below equivelent commercial rates.
If that is the case it is entirely correct that the admionistrators demand proper commercial rates for the use of Rangers facilities.
If RCT are not paying substantially over the odds for the hire of Ibrox then I cannot see how either 1 or 3 apply.
As I said in another responce below, it is also entirely plausable that RCT believe more money will be raised now that there is more of an incentive for Rangers fans to attnd.
The reality of all this thiough, is thus
:
The author of the blogg, many of the respondants and most those who will be moved to cmplain about this event have no real interest in the charity, or who is being paid what.
It is simply another front to be fought in the battle to end Rangers, or at least make life for them as difficult as possible.
We can debate the rights and wrongs and the legal practicalities all day, it will make not the slightest bit of difference.
All that will happen is as is mentione below, the RCT will spend more of its resources dealing with complaints to it’s regulatory body.
You would think people with a genuine concern about this charity’s work might consider that wouldn’t you?
Perhaps not
Hi Iain,
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond.
There’s a logic leap that’s missing here. Forgive me, I tried to pass over it earlier for the sake of speed and clarity.
The event in question is either being run by 1) RCF or 2) Rangers FC (in administration) or 3) an unknown 3rd party.
If it was being run by a third party, we would have to be told who is running it, and therefore legally on the hook for the event. This is why Music events at stadiums always carrier the promoter’s info as well. In fact, we’d see something along the lines of ” [company] presents [event] with all proceeds going to RCF “. Given both press releases (pre- and post- administration) have no mention of a 3rd party, it’s a fairly safe assumption that there is no 3rd party involved. There is an incredibly small possibility, but there are some legal questions around that also in some of the wording used on the advertising.
Option 2 is that it’s being run by Rangers FC (in administration). I covered that one in my previous post:
Additionally, when you go into administration, you don’t keep non-essential engagements, especially those that do not generate significant income. As an administrator you have to prove a great number of things to a court 182 days after the application to enter administration is accepted by the Court of Sessions. One of those is that if you were forced to make people redundant, that you saw no other means of cutting costs from the organisation. You can’t do that and then run a charity football game. So Rangers FC (in administration) are definitely NOT running the event.
Having dealt with this specific instance before I’m confident that Rangers FC (in administration) were probably set to run the event prior to administration, hence why they had to remove the wording from the websites that said “In association with the RCF and AC Milan Foundation” post administration, when the RCF took over the running of the event (see images above).
That leaves 1 option, that the event is being run by RCF. It should be noted that RCF have successfully run similar events in the past to raise large amounts of money for their various wonderful causes.
Either way, it’s not an assumption.
=====================================================
Almost. 1, 2 or 3 could apply if the Charity was offered money and refused to take it in order to help out a limited company in Administration. A charity can of course refuse a donation at any time, but it cannot use it’s “assets” (legally binding term) to help raise said money, and then also refuse it. It can’t, and this is key, agree to refuse it in advance of using it’s “assets” to raise the money. This is 100% illegal, and falls under tax evasion.
I other words, the following statement is illegal as per point 3 of the Charity Trust ruling I outlined above :
(sorry, I messed up the formatting, it should read:)
Points 1, 2 or 3 could apply if the Charity was offered money and refused to take it in order to help out a limited company in Administration. A charity can of course refuse a donation at any time, but it cannot use it’s “assets” (legally binding term) to help raise said money, and then also refuse it.
It cannot agree to refuse it in advance of using it’s “assets” to raise the money. This is 100% illegal, and falls under tax evasion.
In other words, the following statement is illegal as per point 3 of the Charity Trust ruling I outlined above :
This falls foul of :
==================================================
Basically, It comes down to this.
1. If Rangers FC (in administration) want to play a charity game and give some money to the RCF they can do so, but only if they’re out of administration.
2. If the RCF want to play a charity game, and pay Rangers FC a fee for use of the facilities, they are free to do so ( as long as they’re not paying “over the odds” to cause a conflict of interest).
3. RCF can’t use their assets or be involved with, to play a game for Rangers FC and THEN not accept monies raised. THAT’S ILLEGAL.
Now this may all be down to horribly poor phrasing on the second press release; but I would severely worry about any involvement of the RCF in this event. And whatever else you or others may think of me as a Celtic fan, I genuinely want nothing but the best for all charities and the people who give their time to help others.
Take Care!
its a PLC!
are you saying Rangers FC (IN ADMINISTRATION) are more deserving than:
Needs of Children?
Education?
Social Inclusion ?
Encouraging Tolerance and Understanding of others and their beliefs ?
Health and Well-being?
Unicef?
Prostate Cancer Charity?
Erskine Hospital?
What anyone here thinks is the more deserving cause is neither here nor there.
All that matters is whether th people buying tickets under the advertised conditions believe so.
advertised as a Charity Match?
The disposal of monies have been clearly stated before a single ticket is purchased.
So……just who is being fooled?
If RCF received the proceeds of the game and then handed them to RFC then I could see there is an argument that the trustees have acted outside the objects of the trust and be subject to sanction. However, if RCF trustees give up all or part of their right to receive the proceeds then RCF haven’t applied any funds outwith their objects; they simply have less money to spend on their stated objectives. Provided those who attend – and pay – are told how the proceeds are to be applied then I believe RCF trustees have acted within the law. This, of course, does not in any way excuse their actions, which are despicable and should be condemned
Taking morality lessons from someone who’s club has gone through a gamut of seriously dodgy acts really is something …
Let me remind Wee Jeemy of some stuff ….
Rangers has been engaged, for years, in a thoroughly disreputable tax scam. At the same time, they appointed to their board of directors a man who is currently under 200 plus indictments in South Africa for tax fraud. They were bought over by a man who’s background would not have stood up to scrutiny in a South American dictator’s cabinet, who has involved them in any number of other scams … now, not content with defrauding the tax man they are seeking to defraud Ticketus, numerous football clubs and now a charity …. it is shameful how shameless they are.
I am personally writing to OSCR over this, and I’ll be looking at making complaints against Duff and Phelps over their conduct in the last 2 weeks, conduct which is seriously questionable in itself.
Paul, keep up the good work mate.
Hear hear
The header on the page says “Random Thoughts Re Scots Law.” A quick scan at the list of topics “mused upon” shows 150+ with clear Rangers connections. Are you sure this is really a blog about Scots Law???????
Derek,
Some pieces, in fact most, have mpre than one “tag” so it is not 150 articles about Rangers.
On the other hand, they all, as far as I recall, have something to do with the law, as does this post.
Touche… Touche
nicked him on the shoulder i think – if he bleeds blue… run!
are you saying they have not fallen foul of it?
Does your argument not proceed on the assumption that the funds are going to the Trust first and then being distributed by the Trust to the Club?
What if the position is that the game is being run by the Club, with the Club donating part of the funds to the Trust and retaining the rest?
No funds would then be leaving from the Trust for the Club’s benefit, so there would be no question of a payment by the Trust to Rangers having to be in accordance with the Trust’s purposes.
From the Trust’s point of view, receiving any funds from the game – rather than none, which would be the case if the game didn’t go ahead – is surely perfectly reasonable.
I am not lucky enough to be consumed by the raw passion (and angst) of the average Old Firm supporter and, perhaps accordingly, it puzzles me to see some respondents taking a position which is quite clearly influenced by emotion. I only want to hear the facts.
And here’s a fact for you. After 35 years of diligently paying my taxes I was threatened with a warrant sale by HMRC over an “unpaid” tax bill of circa £1000, a bill which had already been paid. It cost me money to prove my case and no apology was ever forthcoming from HMRC. That’s real life folks.
So, less emotion please. If the Author is wrong, then I expect him to apologise, but if there is the prospect of further inappropriate action in this case then better deal with it now. This litany of rule bending by large organisations has to stop.
I am very grateful to everyone for the comments on the this post.
To make a couple of things clear first – I made a point of praising the Rangers Charity Foundation in my post. That is unequivolcal. RCF is a good thing, doing a lot of good work.
In addition, the support which Rangers has given to RCF since the charity came into being in 2002 is a good thing, and should be praised.
If this match can be played, it will be a good thing as there will be significant proceeds for charity.
However, as I understand matters, and I am happy to be corrected if wrong, this game is organised by RCF. RCF effectively is hiring Ibrox for the occasion. Rangers staff are dealing with the ticket sales through normal box office methods, on behalf of RCF.
Therefore this is not a game which Rangers is putting on, and as a charitable gesture, paying some of the proceeds to RCF. If the game was being played at Hampden, for example, would it be appropriate for the SFA or Queen’s Park to decide to keepo some of the proceeds originally pledged to the charity back for its own purposes, over and above the costs incurred?
As I said in the post, I am sure that Rangers charge RCF a fee to cover the costs of staging a game, which are significant. The implication of the cost of the tickets increasing is that these costs have increased, perhaps because Rangers ran these games at a loss before, and the administrtaor is looking to break even. There is nothing wrong with that.
What concerns me is that, according to the Foundation, Mr McCoist, Mr Cochrane, Mr Smith and Mr Clark, RCF has agreed to forego some of its share of the proceeds and “donate” these back to Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration).
That brings us back to the point I was trying to make – it is not in order, as I understand matters, for a charity to pay some of its funds, or to waive its due sums, for the benefit of a commercial organisation.
In addition, I wonder if this is, as I say above, a well intentioned move carried out for the best of motives, but one which was not checked out beforehand as far as legalities are concerned? When did the Trustees meet to discuss this, as it is their responsibility to run the Charity properly, even if they delegate these decisions to someone else.
Finally, if someone can detect “bigotry” and “bitterness” in what I have written here, or elsewhere, please tell me!
ONe must ask where your “understanding” that it is indeed RCF arranging the game and hiring Ibrox comes from? Any pointers? Any statements to confirm?
Or is it simply that you would prefer that to be the case?
As for proceeds “originally pledged” to the charity. The game was effectively suspended when Rangers went into administration. No tickets had been sold and there was no guarantee it would go ahead.
The announcement to hold teh game the other day under different conditions was just that, not a retraction of previous pledges.
By all means go after this dead horse, it’s quite enjoyable watching a non-Celtic fan flogging it so mercilessly.
Iain, is it as enjoyable as watching the flogging of those other dead horses for the last year and more, you know, the ones about the ‘Timmy tax case conspiracy’ and impending bankruptcy?
Mind you, these were also figments of the Timmy imaginarium too, eh?
http://www.rangers.premiumtv.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2582369
A HOST of Rangers greats will entertain AC Milan Glorie in a glamour charity match at Ibrox on Friday 30 March.
The Rangers Charity Foundation and AC Milan Foundation are set to benefit from the match and a Legends Dinner at the Radisson Blu in Glasgow the previous night.
Rangers Charity Foundation has arranged two unique events that are sure to capture the imagination of the Light Blue legions as some of the finest players ever to feature for Rangers and Serie A giants AC Milan will pull on their boots once again for charity.
The Rangers Legends side – managed by Walter Smith and captained by Richard Gough – will feature fans’ favourites including Ally McCoist, Mark Hateley, Andy Goram, Lorenzo Amoruso, Jorg Albertz, Michael Mols and Arthur Numan.
AC Milan Glorie will field a team drawn from a host of world class names such as Paolo Maldini, Franco Baresi, Jean-Pierre Papin, Frank Rijkaard, Christian Panucci, Gianluigi Lentini and Zvonimir Boban.
Rangers Manager Ally McCoist said: “This is a fantastic initiative by the Rangers Charity Foundation and I know the match and charity dinner will really appeal to our supporters.
“It will be a pleasure to pull on the boots once again at Ibrox and it will be all the more special as I will be playing with lifelong friends against an AC Milan squad that features some of the greatest players ever to grace a football pitch.
“It should be a fantastic few days in March and I know our supporters will turn out in huge numbers to support the work of the Charity Foundation.”
AC Milan legend Franco Baresi said: “I am extremely pleased to announce that I will captain the AC Milan Glorie team against Rangers Legends at Ibrox.
“I know our squad is excited and looking forward to visiting Scotland and playing in front of the Rangers supporters.
“Rangers fans are known to be very knowledgeable and passionate about their football and we are expecting a capacity crowd on the night with a fantastic atmosphere.
“The Rangers Legends team is full of great players and the Milan Glorie team will include a selection of our best known players so we are all expecting a competitive match.
“At the same time we will be raising funds for two very good causes in the Rangers Charity Foundation and our own AC Milan Charity Foundation.”
Rangers legend Mark Hateley, who also represented AC Milan with distinction between 1984 and 1987, said: “This is a terrific match for the Rangers fans to enjoy and I am looking forward to renewing old friendships with some of the players I had the pleasure of playing alongside in the 80s and 90s.
“Like Rangers, Milan is a fantastic club and some of the men who will feature at Ibrox are among the true greats of world football.
“The Rangers Charity Foundation and AC Milan Foundation are set to benefit and I am sure fans will pack Ibrox and back the work of the Foundation once again.”
Tickets for the Legends Dinner at the Radisson Blu on Thursday 29 March are now on sale for £100 each, or £1,000 for a table of ten, and can be booked by contacting the Rangers Charity Foundation on 0141 580 8775 or by e-mailing rangerscharity@rangers.co.uk. Alternatively, click here to download a booking form. The dinner, hosted by Jim White, will provide an opportunity to meet some of the stars taking part in the game and hear interviews and anecdotes, as well as enjoying a sumptuous three course meal and wine.
The Rangers Charity Foundation has organised this match in conjunction with Carl Dunn Sports Management Limited, who represent AC Milan Glorie within the UK.
Tickets for the match on the evening of Friday 30 March will be available for purchase to season ticket holders from Monday 20 February and will go on public sale a week later on Monday 27 February. Adult tickets cost £10 each, with concession / children’s tickets costing £5 each.
I would first give credit to you for allowing people to post views which contradict your own, and for taking the time to respond to these views. From past experience, certain bloggers put responses which politely contradict their position into indefinite moderation limbo, and never let them see the light of day.
You’ve implicitly acknowledged, I think, that if you are wrong in your assumption in your blog that RCF is organising the match and “donating” part of the proceeds to RFC (and if in fact it’s the other way round), RCF could not be criticised for acting outside its purposes.
You’ve stated in your reply however that it is your understanding that in fact RCF are doing the organisation, but invite anyone to correct you if you are wrong. Might I myself make an assumption here? Can I assume that means that you don’t know either way?
One might say that – since it is you who are making the claim that the RCF are acting unlawfully – the onus rather lies on you to prove it, as opposed to on others to disprove it. For the moment though I note that the tickets are being sold by RFC, and that what RCF say it will do is “forego the majority of its share of the proceeds” (rather than “donate” them), neither of which seem to support your position.
Is the truth in all this not more likely to be that the Administrators were simply not going to sanction the use of Ibrox for this match if all of the proceeds were going to RCF? They may have felt it was inappropriate for the Club’s asset to be used in a way that was not maximising income for the Club. They may have felt that the Administrative burden couldn’t be justified given the Club’s financial circumstances. Hard nosed, no doubt, but they would have been perfectly entitled to take this approach.
What was the RCF to do if faced with the choice between there being no game, and thus no funds for the RCF at all, and there being a game and some funds? The RCF’s Trustees would have been acting entirely in accordance with their obligations to choose the latter.
You’ve asked us to point out where you are showing “bigotry” and “bitterness” in your blog. To be fair, I don’t think you are, but you can’t deny showing a fair level of glee at my Club’s current predicament and at whatever small contribution you can make to twisting the knife.
The sarcasm which drips from your comment:
“One hopes that no one feels the need to report the matter to the OSCR. Especially where the mistake will have come about through a genuine desire to help Rangers.”
hardly encourages the view that you are providing an objective analysis of the position as opposed to just stirring the pot.
Allow me to make one last point. You’ve justified much of your concern on this subject on the basis that funds which otherwise might have been going to charitable causes will now be going to RFC. Let me say that I share your discomfort about that.
If though your apparent campaign to get readers of your blog to complain to the OSCR is successful, no doubt the RCF will have to respond and that in itself will dilute the funds available to it for such causes.
Anyone who has been the subject of even a spurious complaint to their regulatory body knows the disproportionate time drain caused. Some of the RCF’s time and administrative resources will have to be applied to dealing with these complaints. Time and administrative resources which could otherwise be spent furthering their good aims.
see my above post. Rangers FC (IN ADMINISTRATION) own website clearly states that this is a charity match. Which bit of the following claims are not clear?
“A HOST of Rangers greats will entertain AC Milan Glorie in a glamour charity match at Ibrox on Friday 30 March.”
or
“The Rangers Charity Foundation and AC Milan Foundation are set to benefit from the match and a Legends Dinner at the Radisson Blu in Glasgow the previous night.”
or
“Rangers Charity Foundation has arranged two unique events that are sure to capture the imagination of the Light Blue legions as some of the finest players ever to feature for Rangers and Serie A giants AC Milan will pull on their boots once again for charity.”
or
“It should be a fantastic few days in March and I know our supporters will turn out in huge numbers to support the work of the Charity Foundation.”
or
“At the same time we will be raising funds for two very good causes in the Rangers Charity Foundation and our own AC Milan Charity Foundation.”
You are quoting from an article dated 20th January, which as you know pre-dates the Administration.
The most recent Article on the site – i.e. the one Paul himself quotes from – is dated 27th February and can be found here
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/football-news/article/2625922
This describes the match as a “glamour legends friendly.”, “with revenue from the match being split between the club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation”
Booking is through the Club.
Like it or not, what seems to have happened here is that the set up for the match changed once Administrators were appointed.
Nailed in to posts Duplesis.
Well done.
I agree with you. Just because it’s exactly the same two teams playing at exactly the same venue at exactly the same time with a graphic advertising it being an exact replica of part of the one used to advertise the original tie does not in any way mean that it’s the same event.
At all.
Btw, for all of these events, the venue and admin is hired ergo there was no admin burden for D&P to consider and no choice to be made at all really.
D&P do though have to maximise revenue during administration. It would be amiss if they did not look at an event being held at Ibrox and using all the facilities required and wonder if they were extracting sufficient revenue.
It all comes down to this…ha anyone been sold a ticket under false pretence?
The answer is of course no.
The irony in all this of course, is that now it is nown that part of the ticket prioce will indeed go to help RFC, the attendance will no doubt be far higher than it otherwise would have been. Meaniong it is entirely possible that more funds will find their way to charity than would have previously.
No, D&P have to maximise efficiencies.
If their remit was to maximise revenue then Season Ticket holders would become creditors and a pay at the gate operation would have been put in place.
AC Milan Legends Charity Match And Dinner
Legends Step Up For Rangers
Rangers Football Club has confirmed the glamour legends friendly with AC Milan Glorie at Ibrox Stadium on Friday 30 March 2012 will go ahead with revenue from the match being split between the Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation.
The Rangers Charity Foundation has offered to forego the majority of its share of the proceeds following the crucial support the charity has received from the Club over the last 10 years and funds raised will help secure the future of the Rangers, which is vital at this time.
Tickets go on sale to season ticket holders from Tuesday, 28 February with a public sale the following Monday and can be purchased on-line by clicking here. Tickets are priced £12 for adults, £8 for concessions and £6 for children and supporters will be able to see a host of Rangers and AC Milan legends in action on the hallowed turf.
Hospitality packages are also available from £99 plus VAT by contacting the Sales Team on 0871 702 1972 or emailing hospitality@rangers.co.uk.
The Rangers Legends side will be managed by Walter Smith and captained by Richard Gough while Italian defensive legend Franco Baresi captains AC Milan Glorie in what is sure to be a night to remember at Ibrox.
Ally McCoist, Brian Laudrup, Paul Gascoigne, Andy Goram, Lorenzo Amoruso, Jorg Albertz, Michael Mols, Arthur Numan will all pull their boots on once again at the Stadium while Baresi’s squad boasts world-class talent like Paolo Maldini, Jean-Pierre Papin, Christian Panucci, Gianluigi Lentini and Zvonimir Boban.
Rangers Manager Ally McCoist commented: “Over the last few weeks our fans around the world have shown how much this great club means to them and the numbers who turned out at Ibrox for the recent Kilmarnock game and at Inverness yesterday is testament to their depth of feeling for Rangers.
“It is a tremendous gesture by the Rangers Charity Foundation to forego the majority of the proceeds of the legends match to benefit the Club and it is going to be an evening of nostalgia for all the fans, players and supporters.”
Connal Cochrane, Manager of the Rangers Charity Foundation, said: “The Club and the Rangers fans have been tremendous to the Foundation over the last 10 years and now it is our turn to stand alongside them and Step Up For Rangers.
“The Rangers Charity Foundation suggested the Club should now benefit from the match and we were delighted that the AC Milan Foundation agreed.
“The Foundation has received unparalleled support from Rangers over the last 10 years and many thousands of lives have been improved in Scotland and beyond because of the Club’s support for our work.”
Legendary Manager Walter Smith commented: “The most important thing about the game is it will bring in money for the Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation and when I was asked to manage our side I had no hesitation in accepting.
“It should be a fantastic occasion and for every Rangers fan it is one to get excited about. When you look at the Milan squad we are talking about some of the greatest footballers of all time. Over the period they have had so many great players and it will be fantastic to welcome them all to Ibrox.”
AC Milan Glorie captain Franco Baresi commented: “I wish to offer my support to Rangers Football Club and the Rangers Charity Foundation in my capacity as Captain of AC Milan Glorie.
“We are all looking forward to attending the official dinner on Thursday 29 March and can’t wait to play in front of what I hope will be a capacity crowd inside Ibrox Stadium on Friday 30 March to help raise funds but also to play in a friendly, competitive game at the highest level.”
Paul Clark, joint administrator at Duff & Phelps, said: “The fans have been absolutely tremendous and we are encouraged by their reaction to the Club’s current situation.
“It goes without saying, it is absolutely vital to the administration process that fans continue to support the Club directly by coming to Ibrox. Right now, it is quite simple – income generated now will help secure the future of Rangers.”
Tickets for the Legends Dinner at the Radisson Blu on Thursday 29 March 2012 are also on sale for £100 each, or £1,000 for a table of ten, and can be booked by contacting the Rangers Charity Foundation on 0141 580 8775 or by e-mailing rangerscharity@rangers.co.uk.
The dinner, hosted by Jim White, will provide an opportunity to meet some of the stars taking part in the game and hear interviews and anecdotes, as well as enjoying a sumptuous 3 course meal and wine. The Club, the Rangers Charity Foundation and the AC Milan Foundation will also benefit from this event.
The match has been organised in conjunction with Carl Dunn Sports Management Limited, who represent AC Milan Glorie within the UK.
****************************************************************************************
with all this free advice from NON Rangers minded people – YOU should be thankful instead of bitter!
READ THE TOP HEADER – THE ADVERTISEMENT!!!!!!
IT STATES IT IS A CHARITY MATCH AND DINNER!!!!
an oversight ? perhaps? False advertising ? perhaps too?
It IS a charity match…money is being given to charity.
What is so hard to understand?
Is it really a CHARITY MATCH? I thought it is being advertised by the Foundation as a “Charity Match” with proceeds being given to Rangers FC Plc (in administration) and the respective charities. Or is it as advertised by Rangers FC Plc (in administration) as a “glamour friendly” with some of the proceeds going to charity?
It clearly can’t be both.
Why can’t it be both?
Is there a legal definition of a charity match you can point us to?
http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Publications/cc20.aspx#a2
try here!
As much as any charity should certainly pursue all avenues of which may be financially beneficial to it, I would suggest any such commitment made should also be carefully considered and balanced against the possible cumulative effect to all charities, businesses and individuals in wider society. It would seem rather contradictory, and surely against the very founding principle of charity, that any one charity might benefit from a partnership while coming at the expense of many other companies, businesses or individuals who continue to strive for reimbursement of debts long overdue from that charities chosen partner.
Duplesis, iain
As you jump around high fiving each other that you feel you’ve satisfied the legal argument, is there a chance you can address the morally repugnant argument too?
Even if this is legally fine (which I’m still not convinced it is) do you still feel it’s ok for an organisation which has witheld it’s taxes to now take money from a charity?
Cavansam…as has already been pointed out, it is not taking money from a charity.
Fine overcharching a charity whatever way you wish to put it.
So you feel it is ok for an organisation which has been witholding it’s taxes, (taxes which pay for all sorts of social supports some of which also require help from charities to survive), to now overcharge a charity for an event because they are broke?
Would it not have been better to thank them for their offer of support and then kindly turn them down?
overcharching should be overcharging!!
WHo said the charity is being over charged?
Can you provide evidence thay re being over charged?
Finally, if you are indeed genuinly concerned with the problems associated with charity’s raising funds, and how much (or indeed how little) regularly finds it’s way to actual charity’s, I suggest there are bigger fish to fry than RFC and the RCT,
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/money-charity-shops-and-the-cash-that-wont-reach-the-needy-1276435.html
73% of donations swallowed up by costs
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314543/Bonos-ONE-foundation-giving-tiny-percentage-funds-charity.html
Bono being all altruistic
Then we have the scandal of those employed on the streets to sighn you up to give….most of which goes on their commision.
So…by all means laugh at Rangers, stick the knofe in where you can.
But please dont insult our inteligence by pretending to be concerned by the ethics.
iain
I most certainly didn’t laugh nor did I stick the knife in I just asked you how comfortable you are with an organisation which has witheld it’s taxes (and I keep having to repeat this as you keep ignoring it even though this is the reason Rangers are in administration), now either accepting money from a charity (which you say isn’t happening) or now charging more then they originally planned so as to maximise their own revenue rather then the return to the charity?
Duplesis to his credit has at least acknowledged below that he is uncomfortable with the notion.
i am entirely comfortable with funds from a match at Ibrox in part supporting the club
Nice play on words. Sleep well.
Whilst I agree with some of the arguments here that it is the trusts decision to accept reduced donations for the good of the trusts main contributer. It is the lack of shame that amazes me. That these proud Rangers fans are happy to accept that worthwhile causes will miss out to prop up a failing commercial venture, that is in it’s current state due to years of mismanagement.
@Cavansam at 12:40pm
I’ve already stated that I am not comfortable with money which would otherwise be going to the charities going to RFC.
This blog describes itself as “Random Thoughts Re Scots Law” though, and the argument which Paul was presenting was that the situation may be unlawful – which is why that’s what I’ve tried to answer.
For what it’s worth I don’t think that the question of morality is black and white here. It is still better that RCF get something rather than nothing at all.
@ TheBlackKnight at 12:15
Either you or I have lost the thread of your argument.
You had been arguing on the basis of the out of date article you quoted that the match was clearly organised by RCF as I understood it.
I referred you to the current article to show that appears to no longer be the case.
You are arguing what now?
That because the header you say appears above the up to date article says its a charity match, the match must be organised by RCF?
If so then that argument just seems specious.
Incidentally, i’m not being cheeky when I say “the header you say appears above the article,” because that header doesn’t appear on my browser. On my browser the article starts “Legends Step up for Rangers.”
You then refer to what the adverts say. The very point Paul was making about the adverts is that they changed. One of the changes appears to be that the reference to “Charity Match” has been removed.
That is entirely consistent with the point I am making.
Once again – the set up for the match changed after the appointment of the Administrators.
Finally, the suggestion that there is false advertising. Am I being impolite if I say I hear the sound of goalposts moving? In any event, I think this may be predicated on the earlier version of the advert rather than the current one.
Moreover, you cannot credibly advance the contention that the paying public are not well aware of how the funds from this match are to be distributed in the light of the publiuc announcement of the fact on the Club’s website and the associated publicity.
http://www.rangerscharity.org.uk/
says it quite clearly here. No need to thanks this ‘Celt’ for putting you in the right direction. Hope they amend it as to avoid confusion.
Now, can anyone answer me this?
is it Rangers FC PLC (in administration) selling the tickets? Ticketus or the RCF?
Ah, then we are talking at cross purposes about the header. I was looking at the article on the club’s website, whereas you were referring to the article on the RCF website. Doesn’t change the points I’m making though.
nor mine.
Still being advertised by the Rangers Foundation as a Charity Match! Perhaps you should do something more constructive, let them know?
any idea who is selling the tickets?
I wonder if AC Milan have been informed of the change in the status of this match? It appears if we are to believe Dignity FC followers that we now have a glamour friendly and not a Charity game.. wonder what the % breakdowns will be…. I can say I am never shocked at the lengths they go to, justifiying the unjusifiable ,… here we have a charity gig being re jigged and dressed up to draw money to keep the lights on at the big house for another week or so… the play with semantics and language to merely disguise a lack of moral fibre, conscience & integrity for me sums up the organisation (Dignity fc) and those who follow it…. Also to accuse the blogger of bitterness and bigotry is shameful I have found the blogs educational, sound and at times funny and I for one am glad that Paul takes the time to inform …l
I look forward to discussions around further developments in the Administration process itself, as this Article seems to be a bit off the track and a small fish in a big pool when it comes to Scots law thoughts regarding Rangers FC. Plus it has brought out the worst in the bloggers (including an inability to spell).
@ BlackKnight at 4:16pm and 4:17pm
So if I understand you correctly, your point is now that the RCF website has a heading above an article about the game in which the game is described as a “Charity Match,” and this leads you to conclude.. em, what exactly?
You had been arguing (on the basis of the out of date link you posted) that the websites’ articles clearly demonstrated that RCF was responsible for organising the game. Is it your position that this heading in some way supports that argument? Or are you now wondering off in a different direction because you can’t find support for that argument?
Alternatively, are you seriously suggesting that the wording of a heading above the RCF article about the game is devious false advertising and that the Charity should be brought to book for this (despite the article itself making the position abundantly clear)? Or are you now just arguing for the sake of it?
On the question of who is selling; (I presume your reference to Ticketus is just your little joke, incidentally.)
As far as I can see it is RFC (Ok, RFC (IA) to keep you happy), but I don’t know for sure as I haven’t bought a ticket – have you?
Have you informed the charity of their mistaken advertisement?
Still not clear who is 1) organising 2) benefitting 3) capturing revenue from tickets sales.
I have no intention of assisting Rangers FC Plc ( IA) with their financial difficulties. I already pay enough tax. 😉
http://www.espnstar.com/football/serie-a/news/detail/item761085/AC-Milan-legends-set-for-Ibrox/
AC Milan legends set for Ibrox
“I am extremely pleased to announce that I will captain the AC Milan Glorie team against Rangers Legends at Ibrox,” Baresi told the AC Milan website.
“I know our squad is excited and looking forward to visiting Scotland and playing in front of the Rangers supporters. I’m also very happy to meet old friends who played in Italy in our Championship, such as Gascoigne, Amoruso and Hateley. I hope the stadium will be full of supporters attending such a big charity event.
“Rangers fans are known to be very knowledgeable and passionate about their football and we are expecting a capacity crowd on the night with a fantastic atmosphere inside the stadium.”
“At the same time we will be raising funds for two very good causes in the Rangers Charity Foundation and our own AC Milan Charity Foundation.”
Have to confess that in the toing and fro-ing, I missed kevinjohn’s post at 9:25 this morning which stated amongst other things:
“And please, before anyone suggests that Rangers FC (in administration) are running the event in question, and donating the money to the RCF (though donating a smaller percentage than previously planned) – they cannot do that. You see, Rangers FC (in administration) are prohibited from releasing funds to 3rd party companies that are not “secured creditors”, or “essential to the continued existence of the limited company” (see: Administration Act 1992 for reference).”
Referring to and quoting from a statute. Looks like you know what you’re talking about, and it seems a telling point.
Or at least it might be if the Administration Act 1992 actually existed…
There’s a Social Security Administration Act 1992, but I assume that’s not what you meant…
Excellent spot!
I must confess I was taken in with his confident and apparently detailed prose.
A quick Google would have told me he was not all he seemed.
I’ll remember next time.
Just to let you know, I have put a new post up re this issue, and whilst Kevinjohn would not get points for the statutory reference, he does seems right as far as the issues are concerned!
Morning Duplesis,
You’re absolutely correct in my error, thanks for pointing it out.
Ha, this is what happens when you try to write a comment on the train to work 🙂
I sadly couldn’t remember the correct act&year and had to Google on my phone, copy/pasting the first answer. As Paul has stated elsewhere, I should have said “the amended Insolvency Act of 1986”.
Either way, the points I made are still absolutely valid, even with this one small error.
Hi kevinjohn,
to be fair it’s an easy enough mistake to make!
Now that we have identified the correct statute though, it does seem to me that para 65 of the Schedule – which sets out the provisions you were referring to – is greatly qualified by para 66, as I’ve argued in response to Paul’s part 2.
Para 66 allows the Administrators to make a payment other than in accordance with para 65 if the administrator thinks that payment advances the purpose of administration (I’m paraphrasing, but have quoted the para in full in the other response.)
Indeed, it does seem that the Administrators are themselves of the view that they can do this, since the RCF website makes it clear the game is being run by the Club, and that the Club is making agreed donations from the proceeds to the 2 charities (again I’ve posted a link to the relevant RCF website page in the response to Part 2.)
Kind of lost the will to live by the time I got to the end of the [current] posts. Not because it wasn’t informed and interesting but just that there was a lot of it. However, at least it provides a platform to listen and learn. And if this particular thread concludes that there is no issue for RFC or concludes there is an issue for RFC, well the discussion is no less valid for all that.
To the contributors who claim the discussion was borne of “bitterness” and was “bigoted” and other variations of the same, I would say take a long hard look at yourselves. There was nothing posted that would justify such a response. And have you learned nothing over the past 12 months? Did denying and deriding critics not play a significant part in RFC arriving at this sorry place? So you have the choice: you can join in forums like this where there is some degree of reasoned debate, or, for the rest, well … you are spoiled for choice of sites out there; they’ll even teach you the words of the Famine Song too. The grandchildren will be so proud.
Wow.
Is this the most replies to one of your blogs, Paul? It must certainly have the most words in response. The fact that it concerns charity suggests that a raw nerve has been touched, and that people on all sides care.
Oh and Kevinjohn; time you had your own blog, if you don;t have one already. Superb, coherent, logical argument. Well done to Iain also. This is what makes reading blogs so enjoyable.
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Hi, this is all fascinating stuff -great blog. I’ve never read it before and stumbled across it after I read the story in the newspaper about this event and was absolutely appalled by it. Not just the fact that the club were stealing from a charity (which is what it morally is no matter how you dress this up legally), but the way in which it was being reported seem to miss this point entirely in favour of back-slapping and team bonding in times of hardship!
Iain seems to be quite an articulate chap. I think that’s what really saddens me about scottish society – I can forgive the uneducated bigots (to a point) because they don’t know any better, but for someone with a decent education and the ability to articulate himself well to have such entrenched bias in favour of one side, and to venomously attack anyone that questions the morality of what that side is doing shows that even clever people can be bigots. What hope for the rest of the country?
I suggest Iain and Donald Finlay and a few others go and debate this in private and leave the rest of us to live happy, healthy and balanced lives.
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@ iain
“I think it would be a hard push to argue that the top headline is in anyway contradictory to the body of the piece, where the distrobution of the monies is mentioned several times”
That’s second-guessing what a judge might say if the matter was ever to get to court. Don’t you think there is already enough litigation pending around Ibrox without anyone stoking the furnace even further? Lawyers, of course, earn their crust party by being expert second-guessers of judicial decisions. That’s why they generally err on the side of pessimism (or “caution” as they’d probably call it), rather than clutching at the most appealing straw, as you appear to have done. It’s simply more realistic to anticipate what’s likely to happen rather than what you want to happen. That failure of realism does seem to be at the root of much of Rangers’ current woes.
In fact, I think a judge would be likely to give MORE weight to the headline than to the subsequent text, on the basis that many more people will read the headline than will plough through the text. The issue would be the overall impression given to the theoretical “man on the Copland Road omnibus” (those on Clapham omnibuses being unlikely to be even aware of the game).
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