The Name “Sevco Scotland Ltd” is Consigned to the History Books – Welcome The Rangers Football Club Ltd!

The following statement came from the Rangers Football Club today.

THE Board is delighted to confirm that the official name of the company that owns Rangers is being changed to The Rangers Football Club Limited.

This process was completed following an Extraordinary General Meeting of ‘oldco’ shareholders today when procedures were approved that enable Sevco Scotland Limited to change its name to The Rangers Football Club Limited.

Charles Green, Chief Executive of The Rangers Football Club, said, “The process that took place today is the penultimate piece of the jigsaw that will see The Rangers Football Club move forward, with the transfer of SFA membership being the final piece.

“As every fan knows, Rangers is Rangers – it always has been and it always will be. The Club still has its 140 years of history and we are now embarking on the next 140 years.

“We are back playing football and the Board is focused on rebuilding this great Club over the next few years.

“Our fans were fantastic on Sunday at Brechin and their support at Ibrox and away from home this season will be instrumental in helping the team achieve the success we all desire.”

This follows on from the announcement by Duff & Phelps earlier this month that:-

Duff and Phelps, administrators of The Rangers Football Club plc (in administration) issued the following statement today.

“We have written to all shareholders of The Rangers Football Club plc (in administration) to provide notice of a general meeting of the Company to be held at Ibrox Stadium on July 31.

“The resolution to be put forward at that meeting is to change the name of the Company to RFC 2012 plc and there will be no other business on the day.

“This is a procedural measure in order for Sevco Scotland Limited – which acquired the business and assets of the Company from the administrators on June 14 – to change its name simultaneously to The Rangers Football Club Limited.”

The changes of name by Sevco Scotland Ltd and the Rangers Football Club PLC are less amusing than this one.

Therefore, what has happened is as follows.

The Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration) was the owner of the “assets and business” of Rangers Football Club.

It sold those assets to Sevco Scotland Ltd, which traded, until today, as The Rangers Football Club.

Sevco Scotland Ltd has changed its name today to The Rangers Football Club Limited.

The Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration) has changed its name to RFC 2012 plc.

On 21st June 2012, Mr Green incorporated a company of which he was sole shareholder and sole director. That company was called RFC 0712 Ltd. The following day it changed its name to RFC 2012 Ltd.

So the former Rangers Football Club PLC, which traded as the Rangers Football Club, is now called RFC 2012 plc which is very similar to RFC 2012 Ltd, a company set up by Charles Green, who has also set up Sevco Scotland Ltd which is now The Rangers Football Club Ltd trading as the Rangers Football Club.

However it would appear that the membership of the SFA is presently still in the hands of the Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration), and which played as the Rangers Football Club, which has become RFC 2012 PLC (in administration), as it has not yet been transferred to Sevco Scotland Ltd, now entitled The Rangers Football Club Limited, and trading and playing as The Rangers Football Club under a “conditional” membership of the SFA.

Mr Green, speaking after the grant of “conditional membership” of the SFA commented on corporate structures. He said:-

“I think everyone knows that it’s Rangers that are playing at Ibrox whether it’s owned by company A or company B.

Our main rivals – or our former main rivals – across the city they have had three different companies in their lifespan. In fact if you look at their corporate structure now it’s more complicated than Rangers’ is.

“So it’s not about an individual or a corporate company with a registration number. This is Rangers and will always be Rangers.”

He has repeated today, as mentioned above:-

“As every fan knows, Rangers is Rangers – it always has been and it always will be. The Club still has its 140 years of history and we are now embarking on the next 140 years.

“We are back playing football and the Board is focused on rebuilding this great Club over the next few years.

“Our fans were fantastic on Sunday at Brechin and their support at Ibrox and away from home this season will be instrumental in helping the team achieve the success we all desire.”

Two things arise from Mr Green’s statements.

First, I am glad that the manoeuvring of his company names and structures is clear, and less confusing than that of Celtic. One hates to imagine the complexity of the structure at Parkhead!

Alexander the Great (not Neil Alexander) cuts the Gordian Knot, whilst saying that it was easier to unravel than the changes of name, shareholdings and structure of the Rangers Football Club

Secondly, is it just me, or does every other reader take Mr Green’s comments about the team and the fans as equivalent to shouting “Roll up, Roll up, get your season tickets here”?

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93 responses to “The Name “Sevco Scotland Ltd” is Consigned to the History Books – Welcome The Rangers Football Club Ltd!

  1. Charles Green today: “As every fan knows, Rangers is Rangers – it always has been and it always will be. The Club still has its 140 years of history and we are now embarking on the next 140 years.”

    Charles Green on June 8th: “To actually go out publicly and recommend that the creditors vote down the CVA, it seems to me quite unbelievable, because what we’re doing in that is saying the history, the tradition, everything that’s great about this club is swept aside.”

    Can’t both be true, can they?

  2. JimBhoy

    Mr Green did the 5 stars fall off the current ‘Rangers’ jersey?

    Your comments on History et al will come back to haunt you when the toxin finally surfaces. You have today, provided a placeholder to the history question, to be referenced evermore… Well until they hunt you out of Ibrox for the next eejit to come in and whence you are added to the Murray and Whyte list of Rangers hate figures. Jog on…

    The majority of rangers fans will see right thru you. The hard core element may not and that will bring it’s own problems to your door.

    Santa is gonna bring you a big bag of whoop-ass administration..!

    • The stars are on the shorts now.

    • iain

      “Mr Green did the 5 stars fall off the current ‘Rangers’ jersey?”

      Nope….they are still there.
      And in fact above the crest of the away strip as they were last season

      • Until the titles are stripped…

      • iain

        Those stars…gained you will agree with skill….will always be there

      • Guys, guys
        .
        First, Celtic and Rangers have been so dominant over the years that it was only a matter of time that one of them reached 50 league titles – it fllows that Fergie’s Aberdeen and McLean’s Dundee Utd have more reason to celebrate their feats with ‘stars’.

        Second, how country-bumpkin-like stupid do you think a Rangers fan wearing the ‘stars & strip’ looks when meeting, say, a Real Madrid fan* wearing his strip, which has more stars – each ONE worth more than all the ones on the Rangers strip put together. No one in the WORLD puts a star on their strip cos they won their own league 10 times, or would do it if they won it 100 times.

        It’s embarrassing, for Rangers and for the rest of Scotland.
        (*of course, they would meet on holiday, not in any competition).

        Third, to those fans with the 5-star tattoo, I would suggest changing the last one to an asterisk.

      • iain

        I think you will find Kenny, that fans of Madrid wouldn’t give two stuffs either way. Neither would most fans of most clubs.

        The fact is that it was Rangers who attained 50 titles first…not Sellick.
        A worthy milestone I am sure you will agree, and rightly celebrated by Rangers.

        It was merely an added bonus that the addition of the stars riled Sellick and their fans so much….so much so that the first thing they did in responce was add a star of their own. And that years later…the subject of stars vexes Sellick fans so much that they are desperate to see the back of them.

        But really Kenny….there just a few stars.

        P.S. Rangers are not in fact unique in adding a star for every ten titles

      • Iain, take your point – and thanks for the correction (would love to know which other clubs have done it). But I just find it a little sad; I just think stars should be for European Cups and World Cups – my own preference, mind – and may even be diminished by stars for anything else. (And I actually think Real,Madrid fans would be just a bit annoyed.) We’ll agree to disagree on that one, I think.

        And you’re right – the stars-on-shirts thing only started a few years ago. I think it was with the advent of the Champions League (don’t know for sure), and no doubt Celtic put theirs on at the same time as did all the other past winners of European football’s premier club trophy – I very much doubt it was out of any jealousy or whatever of what Rangers were doing (otherwise Celtic could have added another four, maybe smaller ones).

        On the subject of what Paul has posted, I think most people would agree that ‘Rangers is Rangers’, but I’d be interested to know your thoughts on whether the newco club should be allowed to keep all the titles, history etc, but leave all the debts, penalties and so forth. I haven’t actually discussed this with many non-Celtic fans – and I meet very few Rangers fans down here in London (esp ones that know much of what’s going on back home), so I’d be genuinely interested in your thoughts on that one..

      • Ernesider

        Those stars…gained you will agree with skill….will always be there

        Yea, fully agree. But the skill employed was dodging ‘the tax man’ not opponents.

    • iain

      Kenny…a star is added for ten titles in Greece for one. I am also sure that Juventus have two stars for 20+ titles

      For historicle sake…stars were on jerseys of foreign clubs for years…including for winning the big cup.
      Celtic did not add theirs till after Rangers added theirs….years after the CL began.

      Listen….stars are a triviality…they mean nothing. They seem to illicit far more passion than they ever should…I don’t really understand it to be honest.

      On your last point on history and titles….again this is a subject which seems to vex people far more than it should…..history is not something you can put in a cupboard…it isn’t something you can touch….it’s a mindset, it’s feelings, it’s memories.
      Non Rangers fans will claim history is gone, Rangers fans will say otherwise…such is life.

      On titles…I firmly believe Rangers will have taken titles away. This is more about playing to the gallery. Rangers did not cheat, they may have incorrectly reported contractual payments…they did not cheat.
      So whilst they may be officially taken from us, I don’t see how those memories can be stolen.
      As it happens I don’t even know how anyone can force the club to remove the titles from club publications

      • Grabthegrass

        Gents,

        I would hope by now that people realise I don’t support either Glasgow club and have no strong leanings either way, but simply post and read to understnad more clearly here than any other location what is going on. When someone comes on and makes points about stars and history, this is best left ignored rather than start a posting battle not about the key item being discussed. Everyone should stick to making points and comments about facts or errors. Remember the line comment is free, but abuse is not and we can all go back to debating points of issue and not trading insults and issues far removed from the main post.

        There are still so many unasnwered points out there that those in power in Ibrox, the SPL, the SFA etc would like to keep quiet, that these should be the point of the comments.

        @Iann, I would hope these pages would give even the most fervent Rangers supporter some concerns about the future of their club. There are very few altruistic “investors” in football clubs and Green and his vague friends clearly are not in this for the love of visiting Division 3 football grounds. Significant issues remain about who actually owns the company and if you think it doesn’t matter, ask Marching on Togehter about the impact of murky investors on Leeds. No one can figure out how the funding gap is going to be filled with SPL wages on players and managers, but significantly less income. It hasn’t worked in the SPL for 10 years so won’t work now.

        How and why D&P organised the whole administration is due for review as the key administrator role to look after the interest of the creditors seems to have got lost in the process of trying to maintain a football club in existence, which is a worthy exercise, but not what they were being paid £3MM+ for. A recent example is at what point is it in the interest of the creditors to spend their money changing the name of the company to allow sevco to adopt it (unless it was a condition of the “confidential” sale agreement), of which it has not been categorically stated has been completed yet.

        The SPL investigation into rules being broken will take it’s course and for anyone to honestly claim that history will not be altered and that titles not removed retrospectivley, clearly hasn’t grasped what happens in the alternative football universe. There are numberous examples of what appear to be trivial errors and lack of paperwork with honest mistakes resulting in loss of points, demotions, removal from competitions etc, so for what appears to be a near decade of operating with dual contracts and systems which are known to be used soley to avoid tax payments, the football gods will act.

        This whole saga has shown the SFA and SPL in particualr in a very poor light and but for some active campaining by fans, not without their own agenda of course, I’m sure what Green was told about being able to bring Rangers back into the SPL would have unfolded. The decision of the SPL to make the approval of the process by the clubs themselves rather than the board backfired spectacularly and everything since then has been a panic since then. I wonder now if people will look back on comments made now that Sky have signed up again. Perhaps “the long slow death” has been quetly forgotten about.

        This season will be interesting to see how it develops. Rangers should really romp Div 3, but whether home crowds hold up for what is not a great spectacle of football or if the money runs out will be very interesting. New Rangers may be debt free after shafting Hector and a large range of suppliers and companies, but if it simply starts again with “loans” from the investors, or losses of £5 to 10MM eating up the capital “invested” then they really are no further forward.

      • Sandro

        @ Grabthegrass

        very well put. thanks

      • Marching on Together

        Grabthegrass

        “Marching on Togehter about the impact of murky investors on Leeds” Actually the impact has been better than when the fans owned the club. Under the fans’ ownership we racked up a hundred million pound plus loss, and under the murky investors we are probably the most profitable club in the Football League. (Slightly tongue in cheek!)

    • Tosh

      rangers have chance to make real history now the sfa can keep all titles lets be fair titles paid for by old rangers dont stand for much now new club formed 2012 will win many more we can all be proud of then we can show real glory once again mon the gers

  3. mick

    whats your company house nuber then mister green ours hasent changed has yours ????greens got them believing this as well lol.whats company house rules for ,its making a mockery of the business law in this country and is the worse case of phionexing a have ever seen .time for hector to hightlight greens the same company as he has the history name and is rangers well theres the old tax bill

    • iain

      “and is the worse case of phionexing a have ever seen”

      You study a lot of pheonix businesses then? :-)

      • Keep going guys, one of you will spell “phoenix” right eventually…

      • ecojon

        @Iain

        I think we will certainly have more opportunities for studying the short Flight of the Phoenix down Ibrox way in the not too distant future. I hate to give the ending away but I think in your heart of hearts you already know: Crash & Burn – The Burn bit refers to the fan investors being burned btw just like they have been over debentures and previous shareholding of the ‘unbroken line’ predecessor company which has also left thousands of individuals and firms to pick up the pieces after being shafted. Unbroken Line = continuing fiscal taint IMHO.

  4. mick

    oldco newco sevco tempco tesco all in the space of 12 month

  5. When Green achieves his stated aim of floating What Was and Apparently Is Now Again Rangers their corporate structure will change again, if he’s claiming that to be the case with Celtic’s floatation.

    It is said “So it’s not about an individual or a corporate company with a registration number. This is Rangers and will always be Rangers.” Shirley, that should be “The Rangers”?

    What do we think the liquidators at BDO will make of this shell game? I mean they aren’t even trying to pretend its anything other than the same company whit £70m- to £130m less debt. That’s got to be wrong, right?

  6. iain

    “Secondly, is it just me, or does every other reader take Mr Green’s comments about the team and the fans as equivalent to shouting “Roll up, Roll up, get your season tickets here”?”

    And is it just me or does that paragraph read more like…

    “bastard! they’ve done it!”

    Ps…there is no “conditional membership….well not outside of this blog at any rate

    • ecojon

      @Iain

      I think you are exhibiting a tad of delusion if you think they’ll be able to do it again with HMRC and credit from other commercial suppliers, As to football fans they can sometimes have awfully fixed minds and narrow vision when it comes to their team.

      After Murray & Whyte and the internal warfare going on in the Rangers fan camp I have no idea how many will but STs as to whether they’ll be done again on debentures and shareholding well that has yet to be seen.

      Sometimes even a worm turns.

  7. ADM

    @mick – afraid it’s not a phoenix company, that’s the point of Paul’s “what’s in a name” post.

    @iain – headline on the BBC report of Friday’s statement from SFA et al: “Rangers have been granted a conditional Scottish FA membership”. Ah well, wrong again.

    • iain

      BBC headlines eh? That beacon of accuracey! :-)

      As our heroic blogger showed you the other day, there is no such thing as a “conditional membership”

      • And yet you’ve got one. Your membership will be rescinded if Duff & Phelps don’t hand over the SPL share to Dundee by the 3rd of next month. Sounds a lot like a condition to me.

      • Tyke Bhoy

        Iain exactly. no such thing but the SFA seem to have created it, RFC 2012 PLC(IA) still hold the full SFA membership. Therefore any membership The Rangers Football Club holds is not a transfer or the same. Bang goes the continuity at 140 years. Also the SPL have prima facie evidence that at least the last 5 championships were won by Dead Club at least in part (and probably mostly) due to players on dual contracts to facilitate financial doping. Titles WILL be stripped.

      • iain

        Oh I’m sure they will be Tykey.
        The stripping of tittles is all the mhob (and Lawwell) will accept.

        Take them away all you like.

        We won them, they are ours….and most importantly you and all the rest will always know that.

      • If titles are stripped, what everyone will always know is that you cheated to get them. Nobody still thinks Ben Johnson really won the Olympic 100m. His name is synonymous with one thing – cheating. So will yours be.

      • iain

        You will try to convince yourlelves…sure enough.
        But you will forever know the titles were won by Rangers. They were won on the filed of play 11 v 11.
        Everyone will forever know who the rightfull champions those years were….even after Lawwell has them taken away.

      • Loving this new party line from Newco fans. Ben Johnson won his gold on the field of play too. Ran faster than anyone else on the track. But he still cheated, and so he still had his medal and title taken away and given to someone else. There’s no difference between chemical doping and financial doping – Rangers’ “11 men” included men they had no right to put on the field against the other teams’ 11 men.

        Going by the number of honours likely to be taken away, Rangers will become the biggest cheats in the history of football, probably all sport. The name will be a worldwide byword for foul play, and by insisting you’re still the same club there’ll be no hiding place from the shame. We know it, and you know it too.

      • iain

        Chemically enhancing your body’s ability’s is the same as some clerical trivialty apparently!

        Oh my lord….I’ve heard it all now! :-)

        As I say….we will all know who the rightfull champions are

      • Indeed we will, when the investigation is concluded and we find out whethr Rangers were cheating or not. If they were, they were not the “rightfull” [sic] winners. That’s what the word “rightful” means – it means “team who won fairly by the rules”. You’ll work it out eventually.

      • iain

        I find wings, that if you are going to pick up someone’s spelling you should get your own correct.

        Don’t know “whethr” [sic] you agree or not.
        :-)

    • ecojon

      @ADM

      I prefer to regard it as a Phoenix Company in all but name :)

      However, as I mentioned earlier, I look forward to the sequel: The Short Flight of the Phoenix.

      • ecojon

        @Iain

        I would love to take you up on your very generous offer re the titles.

        However as they don’t belong to you I must respectfully decline and await their rightful parade at Parkhead in due course and thence to be placed among all the other righteous awards won fairly by the Hoops in their long and unbroken history.

      • ecojon

        @Iain

        There’s distorting lenses and then there’s Rangers blue-filtered tunnel vision.

        ‘clerical triviality’ used to describe the theft of tens of millions of £s from the Exchequer – breathtaking is the only way to describe it or perhaps delusional might be a better fit.

      • iain

        “‘clerical triviality’ used to describe the theft of tens of millions of £s from the Exchequer – breathtaking is the only way to describe it or perhaps delusional might be a better fit.”

        Why are Sellick fans so disengenuous (liars)?

        The SPL case has zero to do with “theft” from the exchequer….as I suspect you know.

        Talking of theft from the exchequer…what say you to your managers attempt to steal £400k from the very same exchequer? Aren’t you disgusted?

        What about his several film making ventures? (along with several team mates).
        You must be totally disgusted.

  8. ecojon

    I would say that all football membership is in fact ‘conditional’ – it is conditional on the club being able to run profitably. We will see in short course just how ‘conditional’ The Rangers will be. Of course, like its predecessor in the unbroken history lineage, it may well squeeze a bit more time by ripping-off the tax man in various ways.

    However, in the end Hector will come calling and now doubt we will see some more name changes although the asset shell game might be more interesting to observe.

    Still those paper share certificates from the £30 million flotation should come in useful for something. I still have this feeling that the AIM flotation normally needs 3 years of previous audited accounts and perhaps this is why the history is so essential to keep.

    But there are some gaps that might not look too convincing to AIM investors let alone a possibly interesting ‘judgement’ on a bigotry accusation. I know the AIM set-up has been labelled as casino investing but surely even casinos have some regard as to whether those seeking entrance are fit and proper people.

    If the SFA finds any charges against Charlie Bhoy as proven on the bigotry issue then it will be interesting to see what they say about a supposedly professional person in a position of power using the ‘bigotry’ card with all the dangers of public disorder that entails.

  9. Well, well. After watching his first ever Rangers game – which wasn’t that bad by the way (for once I quite enjoyed the fact that I couldn’t understand the commentary) – Mr G has turned into a bile-spouting, mouth-foaming rabble-rouser.

    Seriously, I found his comments after the game ranging from the nonsensical (“It’s the beginning of what’s been a very difficult few months.” Eh?), to the downright offensive (the “bigotry” comment).

    Apart from the potential public order consequences of this stupid little man’s utterings, it does throw some light on the extent, and usefulness, of D+P’s ‘fit and proper owner’ checks.

    • ecojon

      @Kenny McCaffrey

      I beg to differ from you and would say that it is obvious that the D&P fit& proper checks have found the ideal owner for whatever it is currently called.

      Although this does raise another issue worth investigating. I believe there are 2 x £1 shares in Sevco Scotland Ltd which is now that other name.

      Now is my understanding correct that if they have been issued and are held by Charles Green that makes him the owner of the club as the new company has the oldco assets vested in it.

      The reason I ask is I seem to remember Charles Green making a big thing to the punters that he wasn’t an owner or shareholder in any way just a guy come to hand this £50 million club to the fans.

      Maybe my memory is faulty but I will check what he said at the time but just like the ‘bigotry’ word no doubt Charles might have alternative meanings for ‘owner’ and ‘shareholder’. And of course he is bound to have been misquoted :)

  10. George Murray

    Sevco they are and Sevco they wiill remain in the eyes of all right minded football fans. New kids on the block with not a title to their name and the former club will soon surely be minus at least 5 and possibly 7.

    Cheaters never prosper – square shooters always win – as Dean Martin would say. If you put your trust in Charlie, given how he has bought into the whole huns mindset, you will forever be the same graceless bunch as before.

  11. This is Rangers and will always be Rangers

    • JimBhoy

      I hope so… Your club make any/all other football clubs in Scotland look good..Some day the authorities will have had enough and you will be at Royal Albert, Kilwinning and Airdrie on match days.. The finances didn’t kill ya your septic fans will…It’s only a matter of time.
      Follow the facts, season ticket sales in the SPL on the rise… Does that not tell ya something ,even in this period of austerity..

    • ecojon

      Quite right mate – must be quite exciting starting out fresh with a 1 day history :)

    • Grabthegrass

      Can we all move on from the name debate. Sevco bought the old rangers lock stock (including all the pies) and barrel including the right to use the name, logo, everything. This is not uncommon when companies are sold, even when being liquidated, so let’s move on from this can we.

      Green appears to have given in on insisting that the SPL investigation would not occur and/or trying to limit the possible consequences and quite frankly always knew that the SPL could not back down on this otherwise their whole existence was threatened, so now that is sorted, Rangers continues, but in Div 3, no finanacial credit from anyone I would imagine and with very hazy finances. I would love the SFA to issue the business plan and investor details, bit I guess these are confidential, so we will never see what flights of fancy they have come up with.

      Let Rangers be Rangers as everyone knew it would be, but I do wonder where Greens Open and honest approach went to……

  12. Andy

    I as you will know from previous posts and do enjoy your blogs, even though recent ones have been a tad on the ‘we don’t have anything worth writing about but better put something down’ feel about them. At the end of the day, were in the 3rd Div, we will sell plenty of season tickets (dont use worry your little heads about that), and we’ll enjoy the ride back to the top!! History is history, you can’t change it or take it away, we won those leagues because the team was better than everyone else in that competition, get over it!! What you celtic fans should be worried about, is how you get on tomorrow night in the champions league or why your CEO felt the need to issue a begging statement to fans to buy tickets (funny because use are champion right, so seats should be easy to fill, surely…apparently not)….Or are the fans not buying tickets because there is now no excitment for you..the club can no longer buy the players you desire to see, and you will waltz the spl by Christmas….and if as is likely you are out of the champions league, then the season is done, and the next and the next…Whilst we are enjoying our adventure through the ranks, use will be bored bored bored of something that envokes no emotion in the way that it used to. I personally hope for the good of the game in this country that celtic do progress in the champions league….but weve seen time and time again that lennon is tacticly inept for the big occasion (not that i am saying mccoist is, as he is not there yet either).

    • JimBhoy

      Lawell’s pitch is generally standard practice at this time of year by most Club representatives (Green was doing that before he took over FFS).

      Maybe the Celtic fans are too busy laughing their @rses off at this rangers story to get on the phone to parkhead to renew / buy season books.. :)

      You would be as well shutting down half your ground for the season coming, you’ll get some go and pay at the gate but you will get no more than 10k season tickets and if you do well you are much more easily fooled than i would have ever given you credit for.

      Even the SFL head-honcho said on the evidence of Sunday you may be around the SFL for a while. LMFAO

      I am sure you are rooting for Celtic tomorrow mate in the big league against a team half way through their season and topping their league. As for Lennon’s management skills, he is young time will tell but he gets to eat at the big table whereas Ally the tactical wizz will be playing a cup final each week. Good to see his tactics spot on against the mighty Brechin at the weekend. My money will be on Falkirk to give you a reality check.

    • iain

      “you’ll get some go and pay at the gate but you will get no more than 10k season tickets”

      LOL! :-)

      Classic….I look forward to you eating your words

      • iain

        “but if the only reason such great players were at the club at all was because of financial skullduggery, then that, under the rules, is cheating.”

        Ive saw that claim made in various places Kenny.
        But I’ve never saw anyone able to prove that without EBT’s then players would not have been signed. It certainly didn’t stop them being signed in previous years…during the 9 in a row years for instance.

        Murray simply saw a legal way of mitigting his tax exposure and went for it. Businesses do it all the time.

        Had that not been available to him he could well have signed the players anyway…and subsequently underwrote a rights issue to have MIM or Murray sports pick sort the debt out.
        It’s not as though he never did that before.

        So…if anyone can illustratate for a certainty that players receiving EBT’s wouldn’t have been there without them I’d certainly like to see it.

        Although in the cases of Billy Dodds and Bob Malcome maybe it would have been a good thing?

      • Can you “illustrate for a certainty” that Ben Johnson wouldn’t have won the Olympic 100m if he hadn’t taken drugs? No, you can’t. But he still got disqualified, because that’s what happens if you break the rules.

    • Techno (& Iain) – all the point-scoring apart, of course not one of the Rangers teams on the pitch ever cheated (professional fouls and diving, etc aside), but if the only reason such great players were at the club at all was because of financial skullduggery, then that, under the rules, is cheating. The relevant honours proven to have been won in this way will be taken from the club.

      In just about any professional sport, when this happens the titles go to those who finished runners-up. Personally I think Celtic would show the Rangers fans (among others) some respect by refusing to accept the ones that apply to them (as I’m pretty sure any player would), but of course that won’t stop the administrators changing the official records – just like no one can stop Rangers fans believing they still won them.

    • ecojon

      @Andy

      At least our gaffer didn’t have to resort to bigotry to sell season tickets. The reason Charlie Bhoy hasn’t been calling for fans to buy season tickets is a combination of his ltd company shuffling and probs finding a bank that will supply the facilities.

      I would suggest that your time might be better employed on some of the Rangers fan websites where they are advocating that Green should be ‘starved-out’ and no season tickets bought.

      I think that is a more pressing problem for you and you are right the CL game will be tough but that is the kind of problem that comes with success. Having said that if Brechin hadn’t run out of puff I reckon you were toast and btw I did enjoy the game.

      Whether I would enjoy SFL3 fitba every week with the odd cup visit to the dizzying heights of SFL1 & 2 is an easy one – I wouldn’t.

  13. JimBhoy

    Glad I brought up the stars issues…. :)

    maybe those 5 stars will eventually signify 5 league titles cheated and inevitably given up. I don’t care if celtic get what they were cheated out of I just want it to be noted in the history books as – ** No winner as Rangers played ineligible players in all domestic and European competition for 10 years **

    Maybe a star for every 10 million they avoided paying HMRC in the BTC.
    Maybe Lizzy should ban them from glorifying the union jack, surely a symbol of her mighty empire deprived of much needed revenue for public services by the establishment British club. Rule Britannia…!

    • ecojon

      Popped out for a lunchtime Pint and Pie today. I’m terrible at remembering or retelling jokes but I’ll have a stab at this one.

      Bond to HM in helicopter: Where to now Madam?
      HM: Get me tae Brechin they bastards playing up there owe me money!

  14. Steve

    Hello All. I may have missed this at some point, (if so apologies to all) but has Green actually handed the cash over to buy Ibrox etc yet?

    • Plughole

      £5.5million paid ‘as consideration’.
      Legal Definition:
      ‘Consideration must be sufficient but need not be adequate:
      There is no requirement that the consideration must be market value, providing something of value is given eg £1 given in exchange for a house would be valid. The courts are not concerned with whether the parties have made a good or bad bargain.’
      It has to be handed over by 12 tonight or Sevco own SFA. (Excuse the pun.)
      If Charlie hands it over, he’s in for the long haul whether he likes it or not. The plan is to float in October, but I can’t see a market for shares in the panto. The diehards don’t have any significant money to buy shares and I don’t see legitimate or institutional investors touching it with a barge pole. Maybe one or two of Green and Whyte’s ilk will take a punt, but they’ll be expecting to walk away with fans’ money.

      • mick

        @ steve and plughole thats the golden question has green paid why bdo taken so long

      • Marching on Together

        “providing something of value is given eg £1 given in exchange for a house would be valid” English law, not Scots law. No consideration needed in Scotland. The rest of your points re valid though.

  15. Martin

    History.

    Ben Johnson won the 100m final at the Olympics in1988. I saw him do it on TV, that he crossed the line first has never been in dispute.

    History records that the Olympic rules were broken and that Ben Johnson had taken a banned substance and was, according to the rules, cheating.

    Ben Johnson’s title was taken away from him… that’s all the Olympic organisation had the power to do. What they couldn’t do was to deny the inescapable fact that he won the race.

    Applied to Rangers, if they are shown to have won titles outside of the rules then those titles can an should be taken away.

    Sport is about many things but without rules, without a yardstick it is not possible to determine a winner.

    So the rules become of prime importance.

    A lot of Rangers fans feel that they won titles during the EBT years without breaking any rules. If that is the case then they deserve those titles and the congratulations that go with them.

    While doubt remains, the only solution is a full impartial investigation. Supporters of Rangers should not fear this if their case is just, in fact they should be demanding it and demanding a full apology if they are proved correct. If they are shown to have won fairly then they have been sorely abused in recent times.

    The rules may be found wanting, but such as they are they must be applied.

    History records that Rangers topped the league at the end of some of the seasons in the years in question.

    But history has not finished making records.

    • ecojon

      @Martin

      You stated: ‘Ben Johnson’s title was taken away from him… that’s all the Olympic organisation had the power to do. What they couldn’t do was to deny the inescapable fact that he won the race.’

      We certainly have different views as I regard it as an inescapable fact that he did not win the race.

      He crossed the line first, courtesy of a ‘little helper’ and was subsequently disqualified and the person who won the race was indeed the second person to cross the line who did so cleanly without illegal ‘help’.

      • ecojon

        Indeed just heard on TV that Olympic drug sampoles are kept for 8 years so that as drug detection technology improves cheats could be disqualified 8 years from now.

      • Martin

        The future or at least possible one.

        It would be a strange world if the views held to be inviolable by those that inhabit it at any given time were not replaced with new views by their descendants.

        imagine if you will a future world in which an athlete might use any substance he or she chooses to aid performance. A world where this is not considered cheating but instead is praised. A world in which enhancement of human performance is lauded and considered a right of every competitor.

        Do you think this is impossible?

        If not, future generations may well change the record once more. Ben Johnson may yet ‘win’ the 100m in 1988.

      • For the record re Ben Johnson: Until Usain Bolt came along the 1988 100m final was the best sprint race I’d ever seen. By far. And, as shown in a recent documentary, he was just the only one CAUGHT cheating, so it was down to bad management of his drug regime – most of the other finalists have subsequently been shown to have either used, or have been heavily suspected of using, stimulants.
        Haven’t a clue what or how that contributes to the general argument…

      • Marching on Together

        1988 100m final, not such a good example to use as 6 of the 8 finalists, including the first three finishers, were all implicated in drugs use at some point in their careers.

    • mick

      martin financial doping and double contracts is realitiy murray needs to say sorry and every 1 that had a ebt http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/i-refuse-to-believe-major-players-evaded-paying-millions-in-tax.17704904

      • mick

        murray told billy his tax was paid on it so billy is a crown witness and has been conned murray lied to him and dident pay the tax

  16. ADM

    See what happens when I go off and actually do some work for a few hours? All sorts of nonsense kicks off, and I miss it. Oh well. Few thoughts:

    @ecojon – yes, whether or not it’s a phoenix, I struggle to see how it survives financially much beyond Christmas. The business model was already serially unprofitable with SPL level revenues – how you make it work at SFL3 levels, I don’t understand.

    @ iain and friends: I wish you well if your intent is to build a new clean Rangers. The easiest way to prove wrong the dire financial forecasts of ecojon and myself is for the good Rangers fans to turn out in their tens of thousands (along the way proving their assertion that Rangers’ problem fans are a minority. Best of luck

    However, on the titles thing – I think this debate is being conducted at the wrong level. Let’s accept iain

  17. ADM

    Apologies, perils of posting on an iPhone on a moving train. Anyway, as I was saying…

    However, on the titles thing – I think this debate is being conducted at the wrong level. Let’s accept iain’s assertion that it’s a “clerical triviality” (at least until the SFA and FTT have given their views). We’re left with players inadvertently incorrectly registered and therefore ineligible. The rules on fielding ineligible players are well established at all levels – you forfeit the match. (Scarcely a season goes by without some smaller club getting chucked out of the Scottish Cup for this, despite winning the match on the grass.). So Rangers forfeit a series of matches over several years. The results are corrected in the record books. The end of season league table positions are different. Note that the results that are being corrected are those of the individual games; the change in league champion is a consequence. So, with no discussion of “cheating” and no-one setting out to strip titles, just applying the rules to all those individual games changes the record books. Incidentally, it’s clearly true that no-one can force Rangers to change what they show in their records, but the SPL own these records, everyone else will follow what the SPL says, and Rangers will look pretty silly if they stuck with their version.

    • flump

      Stripping of titles is a correction it is not and should never be seen as a punishment. After the stripping should come the punishment, (SFL hit St Mirren with £12,000 fine for one ineligible player a few years ago), happy with that figure to be applied for each player and every game where the player was played out with the rules, that would send a clear message to future generations of football clubs and their fans in this country that you best play within the rules that your club signed up to.
      As for the trophy’s am a Dee but don’t want the Cup from 2003 would prefer it to be recorded in the books as “Stripped from Glasgow Rangers due to Cheating.” Again sending out a message to the future.

  18. Ernesider

    “I think everyone knows that it’s Rangers that are playing at Ibrox”

    This is Rangers and will always be Rangers.”

    He has repeated today, as mentioned above:-

    “As every fan knows, Rangers is Rangers – it always has been and it always will be.

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
    Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230

    “The phrase has come to mean that one can “insist so passionately about something being true that people suspect the opposite of what one is saying.”
    (Wikipedia)

  19. mick

    is it rangers check company house records ????

  20. mick

    one day we will wake up and it will be the police report in it all ,thats justice for rangers fans (oldco)who killed the team murray and whyte just for 10 month at end murrays doin time over this the oldco fans deserve justice for what happened to there team its coming soon its reality

  21. mick

    @martin the rule book is out the window weres sevco 3 years accounts

    • Martin

      Mick,

      If the rule book is out of the window then some one is going to have to get out there and retrieve it.

      A full investigation of events based on the rule book, such as it is, is the only way forward at this time.

  22. jedi

    I’m hearing comapnies house have rejected The rangers football club name

    • ecojon

      @jedi

      Don’t know where you are hearing that. Companies House are showing new name with incorporation date of 29/05/12 which was the date SEvco Scotland Ltd was incorporated

      • jedi

        Ecoj
        Perhaps I should have waited for more than one source,ha ha.

      • jedi

        and it was comapnies house I referred to, you checked out companies house, ha ha

      • ADM

        Think rumour ran based on someone (Devil’s Advocate) tweeting this evening that there was a problem, based on an old BBC report from mid-June (www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18509619). Point of the report was that Sevco couldn’t just take the name without permission from the administrators, but as we know that’s been sorted.

      • ecojon

        @Jedi

        I had actually already checked Companies House earlier but rechecked in case things had changed – which they hadn’t.

        It’s quite easy to check Companies House (I know some journalists find it difficult) but it was the obvious place to check even though it seemed to be a very weak rumour. ha ha

  23. ecojon

    GREEN WANTS ALLY TO STAY FOR 25 YEARS

    and he is to get a shareholding:

    Green has also revealed that McCoist will be offered a stake in the club when a share issue is launched.

    He added: “We have started speaking with him about being a major part of Rangers both as a manager and shareholder.

    “Why shouldn’t Ally be a shareholder? That would be important for him and his family.”

    Ally is still a laddy and I hope someone explains that the shares that he will probably have to buy at some kind of discount can certainly increase in value.

    But they can also plummet. Make up your mind time Coisty – do you trust your and your family’s future being safe invested in XYZ Ltd.

  24. ADM

    Given how the value’s moved (“£50m on a good day” through to 10% for £1m), suggest Ally holds on – he could get a majority share for tuppence ha’penny and a couple of good-sized conkers by the time they’re falling from the trees…

  25. Pingback: Fun With Forms! Could Sevco’s Change of Name to Rangers Be Invalid? | Random Thoughts Re Scots Law by Paul McConville

  26. Pingback: Another person shouting at the internet? Why? « basedrones

  27. bunch of idiot septic fans were in div 3 playing football again sighed 5 new players owner of newcastel united bought 10% shares into ibrox= we can now borrow up to 9 players of newcastel united so bother about yr own team as get over it were a new company THE RANGERS FOOTBALL CLUB ys septic fans are more bothered about whats happin at ibrox than yr own team THE BEAR HAS RISEN AND COMEING 4 YOUS and plus half ys septic fans talk psh and always will not go but to the jungel and see how the pedos and ginger twat is getting on DIV3=PEDO FREE LEAGUE!!!!!!!!

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